Forger had written this in response to
http://www.thestuccocompany.com/main...rs-333732-.htm
:


-------------------------------------
z wrote:


good luck.


-zachary

Thank you!
Very clear - makes perfect sense.. thanks




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zxcvbob wrote in
:

Dave + Gloria wrote:

Bob
Cheap Charlie. Spend a grand on a genset and then skimp on the oil.
As homer would say Doh! Buy the best oil that you can afford. First
change is to get casting remnants and manufacturing dross out of
engine. Why jeopardize motor for the sake a few cents?



I'm not skimping on the oil, The first oil change is to seat the
rings (and the main bearings, I think.) That doesn't work as well if
you use synthetic oil. It will actually cost me more to go to the
store and buy a quart of SF mineral oil than the difference in price
for the SJ-or-better synthetic oil I have already.

But "penny wise and pound foolish" is the sort of thing I tend to do
if I'm not careful. :-)

Bob

Now I don't know about the Yamaha, but I was warned by the honda techs
that using synthetic in the EU series caused a problem with the low oil
sensor. They were issued some tech alert from Honda == for some reason
synthetic builds up in it or something causing them to fail a LOT sooner
than normal.

So just make sure you use what they suggest in the manual. Nothing like
a damn sensor failing that keeps you from being able to start your gen!!!

Neon John wrote:
On Sun, 28 Sep 2008 16:12:03 -0500, zxcvbob wrote:

zxcvbob wrote:

The oil change schedule is longer than I expected; the first change is
at 20 hours, then every 100 hours after that. I'm not sure I want to
stretch it that far.


I started it up, and it's really quiet -- just like it's supposed to be.
I plugged a 6' heavy duty extension cord into it and tried a few power
tools. Everything will start except my 1 HP (but it's old enough that
it's an honest 1 HP) table saw. Will have to try it later with the 8000
BTU air conditioner since it's capacitor-start like the table saw. The
other high-draw tools I tried all had universal motors.

I wonder if the saw might start up if there was an additional resistive
load on the genny, like maybe a 300W incandescent light or a hair drier,
to get the thing off idle before I turn on the saw? (should also help
with the power factor)

That might very well help. I sometimes have to do something similar with my
RV's AC unit in very hot weather. The Generac inverter generator idles down
so slow with no load that it can't handle the starting inrush. Most of the
time just letting the AC's fan come up to speed is enough. If not, a
momentary tweak of the microwave's timer knob does the trick. When I'm going
to be in a very hot climate for awhile such as my periodic trip to Texas to
visit a friend, I simply turn the idle screw up a bit so that the engine can't
idle down as much.

A refrigeration-type hard start (AKA KickStarter) kit on the saw might help.
Basically a capacitor and either a thermistor or relay, the kit supplies the
reactive power the motor needs to get going.

Inverter generators can make you pull your hair out on occasion. Things that
obviously should run sometimes don't. A little fiddling around with other
load sometimes fixes it.

John



I plugged in a hair dryer and the generator revved up a bit. Then
turned on the saw, and switched off the HD as soon as the generator
starting bogging. The saw started just fine. I ripped a short piece of
2x4 with it, and then shut it off. Then I tried it again with the HD on
low and just left it on. The saw started right up. Probably if I ever
do have to run the saw from the generator, all I need to do is plug in
some lights with it (which I'll probably want to do anyway.)

I'm feeling better about this. Thanks.

Bob

"z" wrote in message
. ..
(Forger) wrote in
:

Forger had written this in response to
http://www.thestuccocompany.com/main...rators-331898-
.htm
:


-------------------------------------
z wrote:


I've used eu2000s for a lot of years. I've had failures after 3-4
years
of around 6 - 10 hours a day use. And then it was usually just the
timing belt which you can fix. We used the crap out of them and

My timing belt just crapped out because of a stuck intake valve, where
can I get a new belt and can you explain how to time it?

Thanks



I'll give it a shot. Here is the part

The Belt:

PRODUCT INFORMATION:
Mfg Product Number: 14400-Z0D-003
Description: BELT (61YU7 G-200) for Honda
Order Quantity: 1
Unit Price: $11.10
Total Cost: $11.10


Oil Splasher
PRODUCT INFORMATION:
Mfg Product Number: 16512-ZL8-000
Description: HOLDER for Honda
Order Quantity: 3
Unit Price: $1.86
Total Cost: $5.58


Its always a good idea (thanks Ullyses) to change out the plastic oil
splasher while you are in there. Its only six bucks or so. As they get
older they tend to get brittle and its easy to change once you've got
everything apart.

I ordered from http://www.hondapeninsula.com/

Even with shipping it runs cheaper than my local honda dealer who wanted
like 18 bucks for the belt. Anyway you just plug the part no in -- or
shop around as you like -- either way.

You'll also need some liquid gasket gunk. I use the stuff made by honda
'Hondabond HT, but probably any quality stuff would work.

So you gotta drain the oil, pull all the plastic, pull the carb, pull the
exhaust, pull the valve cover and then pull the crank case. Its kind of
a pain.

Give it a good clean out etc, replace the oil splasher. This might be a
good time to test the low oil sensor -- i had one go bad just after I put
everything backtogether.. sucked. You just hook a test light up to it
and submerge it in oil. takes a few mins

Also I would recommend replacing the seal on the oil sensor as that is prone
to failure. Not as bad as a stuck oil switch but still not fun.



So I've found its easiest to pull the pin on the timing gear (just with a
plyers or whatnot) and set the belt up with the timing gear kind of
hanging lose. Then you rotate the crank till you see a little square
indentation on the crank and a notch. Line that up so its virtical (i
think there might be another mark you can match with).. anyway its
supposed to be at the top as you look at it. The timing gear itself has
a horizontal line that should match up with the case. When you see it
you'll know what I'm talking about. They made it pretty easy. That
should be TDC.

I'm probably just not understanding your explanation but on mine there were
two raised marks (lines) on the cam gear. They should line up horizontally
with the top of the cylinder head _ _ If they look like those two
line just to the left of this you should be at TDC.


Then you can pull up the timing gear and slip the pin back in .. then you
are good to go. Clean the case and goo it up

Just use your aluminum fingers putting those bolts back in.. they'll
strip easy if you get too aggressive with them.

They say you are supposed to change all the gaskets (exaust, carb etc)
when you do this but i'm too cheap and so far so good on using the old
ones. Just be careful and don't break em

good luck.


-zachary

PS: i've had the timing a bit off before after a rebuild. Once the belt
is on you can pull that gear pin and set the gear a few teeth one way or
the other after you reassemble -- once the belt is on you won't have to
take the crank case off or even all the plastic again if you think it
needs a little adjustment after you are done. Thank gowd for that man ..
the plastic etc is a pain in the ass to keep taking off all the time.

I've used eu2000s for a lot of years. I've had failures after 3-4
years
of around 6 - 10 hours a day use. And then it was usually just the
timing belt which you can fix.

Thats like 7,500 hours before the first problem? Is that right?!

I have about 150 hours on mine; I guess it will last a while longer.

"jack" wrote in news:gceg26$3ut$1
@registered.motzarella.org:

I've used eu2000s for a lot of years. I've had failures after 3-4
years
of around 6 - 10 hours a day use. And then it was usually just
the
timing belt which you can fix.

Thats like 7,500 hours before the first problem? Is that right?!

I have about 150 hours on mine; I guess it will last a while longer.




One thing that might help for longevity is to use an engine injector type
cleaner into the air intake and spark plug hole when you change the oil
each time.

The guys at honda told me to use Ames Power Foam and run that through it
a few times when you change oil. Seems like if the generator is ran
under low or mid load conditions for a long time it can have buildup
around the valves etc. Turn off the 'econo mode' and spray that crap in
there and give it a good italian tuneup once in a while running at full
throttle.

but yeah .. overall very reliable .. 150 hours yours is bearly broke in
mate!

The guys at honda told me to use Ames Power Foam and run that through it
a few times when you change oil.

I did a search on Ames, but didn't find anything. What is it?

"z" wrote in message
. ..
One thing that might help for longevity is to use an engine injector type
cleaner into the air intake and spark plug hole when you change the oil
each time.

I don't know about that, but I follow the owner's manual to the letter. That
includes getting every drop of fuel out the tank and carb (it has a special
valve for that) and coating the inside of the cylinder with a bit of oil before
storage. This is also a good time to change the oil. Since mine is used only
for hurricane season, this engine "pickling" becomes an annual event celebrating
the end of hurricane season.


--
Vaughn

.................................................. .......
Nothing personal, but if you are posting through Google Groups I may not receive
your message. Google refuses to control the flood of spam messages originating
in their system, so on any given day I may or may not have Google blocked. Try
a real NNTP server & news reader program and you will never go back. All you
need is access to an NNTP server (AKA "news server") and a news reader program.
You probably already have a news reader program in your computer (Hint: Outlook
Express). Assuming that your Usenet needs are modest, use
http://news.aioe.org/ and/or http://www.motzarella.org/ for free, and/or
http://www.teranews.com/ for a one-time $3.95 setup fee. Newsguy,
http://www.newsguy.com/ offers a variety of reasonably priced services. If you
wish to experiment with real Usenet access, they will give you a free 2-day
trial account.
.................................................. ........

Will poofread for food.

"jack" wrote in news:gcen0c$b5s$1
@registered.motzarella.org:


The guys at honda told me to use Ames Power Foam and run that through it
a few times when you change oil.

I did a search on Ames, but didn't find anything. What is it?



amsoil I meant sorry

http://www.amsoil.com/StoreFront/apf.aspx

"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...

Stormin Mormon wrote:
I agree. However, if you want to provide 1,000 watts for a couple hours,
it
is good to know about the cheaper ETQ.



I'm leaning towards the Yamaha 2400i. 25% more capacity than the Honda,
and a lot quieter than the Yamaha 2800i (the 2800i seems like the best
deal if you don't mind the extra 10dB noise, which is still relatively
quiet for a small genset.) I like that the Yamahas have a petcock on
the fuel line, and they are convertible to NP, and while they are a lot
heavier than the Honda they are still luggable by one person (the extra
weight might be a *good* thing -- means a preteen girl is not likely to
steal it ;-) )

I'm the original titewad, but this should be one of those lifetime
purchases.

I can't find a dealer locally (maybe Cabela's, 40 miles away, I haven't
called them) so I guess I'll have to order one online.

That was one of the reasons I bought my second Honda eu2000--there are three
authorized Honda dealers/repair centers within about 15 miles and no Yamaha
dealers.

But, after Honda admitted that the failure of the oil splasher could/would
cause severe engine damage due to lack of lubrication and they refused to
repair the engine I decided to try something else. Actually, there are many
features about my cheap Chinese generator that I like better than the eu2000
such as it will run stuff the Honda won't. I also like the fact that it
will never cost more than $200 to repair it ;-D It's really not very loud
either--louder than the Honda but much quieter than many open-frame gennys.




Thanks guys,
Bob

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
...
On Sep 26, 2:09 pm, "Ulysses" / wrote:
I can't seem to post a reply.... time for a new server..

You posted this one OK.

Beats the hell out of my why that one posted. It seems my ISP no longer
thought my six-letter password was adequate and changed it to eight letters.
I forgot the change the password on my NG reader. It seems to be working
now.

"jack" wrote in message
...
I've used eu2000s for a lot of years. I've had failures after 3-4
years
of around 6 - 10 hours a day use. And then it was usually just the
timing belt which you can fix.

Thats like 7,500 hours before the first problem? Is that right?!

Well, aside from changing the oil religiously another problem they have is
with the starting rope. It is routed around some stuff and it can wear out
after a few thousand hours. I coated the wear point with a little 5-Minute
Epoxy and that seemed to help it last longer. In order to replace the pull
rope you have to remove all of the red plastic and that can be
difficult--one of the top (handle) screws on mine was so stuck I had to
drill it out and one of the bottom bolts stripped.

Actually 7500 hours was the *last* problem. It barely runs now since the
oil splasher gear broke and was replaced. I just dragged it out of it's
tomb and tried using it with my electric chain saw because it is still the
most easily portable genny I have that can run the saw. It shuts down the
inverter when on Eco Throttle but seems OK when Eco is off. It burns oil
and the oil turns black after only an hour or two. I used to change the oil
about every 60 hours (I think) and it was still transparent.



I have about 150 hours on mine; I guess it will last a while longer.

"Vaughn Simon" wrote in message
...

"z" wrote in message
. ..
One thing that might help for longevity is to use an engine injector
type
cleaner into the air intake and spark plug hole when you change the oil
each time.

I've read many times about people using water in both fuel injected and
carburated engines. I finally tried it on my old '78 F350 (carburated, of
course) before I took it for it's last smog test. I did some other things
too but the emissions were significantly lower. I just dribbled some water
into the carb while it was running and the engine barely noticed it. It
seemed like a dumb idea to put water in the engine but it seems to have
helped. I also put some water in my new *free* Mitsubishi Mighty Max. It
also has a carburator. Is this case I had nothing to lose as it was an
abandoned vehicle and I have not yet spent one cent on it. When I got it
the engine was froze and the throttle was so frozen that I could not move it
with a hammer! I ended up using hydrochloric acid to losen up the butterfly
valves. In any case I did a compression test and one of the cylinders has
low compression with slow build-up so I guess the water didn't help. Even
so It'll make it up my 4WD ONLY hill on 3 1/2 cylinders ;-D



I don't know about that, but I follow the owner's manual to the letter.
That
includes getting every drop of fuel out the tank and carb (it has a
special
valve for that) and coating the inside of the cylinder with a bit of oil
before
storage. This is also a good time to change the oil. Since mine is used
only
for hurricane season, this engine "pickling" becomes an annual event
celebrating
the end of hurricane season.


I've had very good results on several engines by adding some Sta-Bil to the
last little bit of gas and then running it out of gas and then draining the
carb and spraying with carb cleaner. I too completely empty the tank. And
the other thing I always forget to mention is to pull the starter rope until
you get resistance so the valves are closed while in storage.



--
Vaughn

.................................................. ......
Nothing personal, but if you are posting through Google Groups I may not
receive
your message. Google refuses to control the flood of spam messages
originating
in their system, so on any given day I may or may not have Google blocked.
Try
a real NNTP server & news reader program and you will never go back. All
you
need is access to an NNTP server (AKA "news server") and a news reader
program.
You probably already have a news reader program in your computer (Hint:
Outlook
Express). Assuming that your Usenet needs are modest, use
http://news.aioe.org/ and/or http://www.motzarella.org/ for free, and/or
http://www.teranews.com/ for a one-time $3.95 setup fee. Newsguy,
http://www.newsguy.com/ offers a variety of reasonably priced services.
If you
wish to experiment with real Usenet access, they will give you a free
2-day
trial account.
.................................................. .......

Will poofread for food.

Forger had written this in response to
http://www.thestuccocompany.com/main...rs-331898-.htm
:

Hey z let me pick your brain again if I can...
I have replaced the timing belt and plastic gear in my own honda 2000 and
a friend's. But I seem to have identical problems now with both
generators. They seem to smoke for a few minutes when they are first
started in the morning, and consume more oil than previous. I dont know
what I did by replacing the belt and gear that would cause that, I time it
with the square box on the crank straight up and the lines on the cam
lined up with the case. Any ideas what I did wrong that would lead to
burning oil?
-------------------------------------
z wrote:


I've used eu2000s for a lot of years. I've had failures after 3-4
years





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(Forger) wrote in
om:

Forger had written this in response to
http://www.thestuccocompany.com/main...rators-331898-
.htm
:

Hey z let me pick your brain again if I can...
I have replaced the timing belt and plastic gear in my own honda 2000
and a friend's. But I seem to have identical problems now with both
generators. They seem to smoke for a few minutes when they are first
started in the morning, and consume more oil than previous. I dont
know what I did by replacing the belt and gear that would cause that,
I time it with the square box on the crank straight up and the lines
on the cam lined up with the case. Any ideas what I did wrong that
would lead to burning oil?

Hmm.. not really off the top of my head. Are you sure its burning the
oil? Like how much does it use? Could it be leaking from a bad seal on
the crank case or something? I don't see how they could run smoothly and
be totally 180 degrees off TDC or something .. but I'm not an uber guru
(paging Ullyses).

I got off my arse and scanned the engine chapter in the repair manual.
Have a look through that and make sure what you did matches that. I
should have scanned this ages ago --

http://www.homebrewhydro.com/eu2000/

Just click the PDF listed there.

Now Honda will probably take me to court but i'll take the risk

Best of luck

-zachary

Forger had written this in response to
http://www.thestuccocompany.com/main...rs-348022-.htm
:

Wow thanks for the service pages
Yeah I am now wondering if I got it 180 off, I know I did have to push
that cam down under the spring pressure now that I think about it to get
the belt on. It never smoked or used oil before this, and tonight I had to
add oil again, and no its not leaking but I see the muffler is actually
wet with oil.
I am really at a loss here, seems like it has to be the valves or piston
involved in burning oil. Unless it has something to do with oil sucking
through the vent hose? I wonder if being 180 off would cause suction or
something there?

-------------------------------------
z wrote:

ng? I don't see how they could run smoothly
and
be totally 180 degrees off TDC or something .. but I'm not an uber guru

(paging Ullyses).

I got off my arse and scanned the engine chapter in the repair manual.

Have a look through that and make sure what you did matches that. I
should have scanned this ages ago --

http://www.homebrewhydro.com/eu2000/

Just click the PDF listed there.

Now Honda will probably take me to court but i'll take the risk

Best of luck

-zachary





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Forger wrote:
Forger had written this in response to
http://www.thestuccocompany.com/main...rs-348022-.htm
:

Wow thanks for the service pages
Yeah I am now wondering if I got it 180 off, I know I did have to push
that cam down under the spring pressure now that I think about it to get
the belt on. It never smoked or used oil before this, and tonight I had to
add oil again, and no its not leaking but I see the muffler is actually
wet with oil.
I am really at a loss here, seems like it has to be the valves or piston
involved in burning oil. Unless it has something to do with oil sucking
through the vent hose? I wonder if being 180 off would cause suction or
something there?



What sort of crankcase ventilation does it use? In my car that hose got
kinked and it went through several quarts of oil before I figured out
what was going on.

i dont think 180 out on cam is a problem,because if you turn the
crank another revolution its going to be in time like the book says.
ive seen guys dabble some silicone on the oil pan and leak,an oil free
surface and a bead of sealANT THAT SQUISHES OUT A LITTLE IS BEST.
rings,valve seal , crankcase ventilation or oil leak cause oil loss.
those honda black engines are about as cheep made as you can get with
that plastic camshaft setup.

----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.minibite.com/america/malone.htm

Forger had written this in response to
http://www.thestuccocompany.com/main...rs-348317-.htm
:

Ut oh... I didnt seal up the valve cover... Im now wondering after reading
these two posts if thats my problem, I'll try that right now, thanks.
-------------------------------------
wrote:


i dont think 180 out on cam is a problem,because if you turn the
crank another revolution its going to be in time like the book says.
ive seen guys dabble some silicone on the oil pan and leak,an oil free
surface and a bead of sealANT THAT SQUISHES OUT A LITTLE IS BEST.
rings,valve seal , crankcase ventilation or oil leak cause oil loss.
those honda black engines are about as cheep made as you can get with
that plastic camshaft setup.

----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.minibite.com/america/malone.htm







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On Dec 15, 12:13*am, James Sweet wrote:
Forger wrote:
Forger had written this in response to
http://www.thestuccocompany.com/main...nerators-34802...
*:

Wow thanks for the service pages
Yeah I am now wondering if I got it 180 off, I know I did have to push
that cam down under the spring pressure now that I think about it to get
the belt on. It never smoked or used oil before this, and tonight I had to
add oil again, and no its not leaking but I see the muffler is actually
wet with oil.
I am really at a loss here, seems like it has to be the valves or piston
involved in burning oil. Unless it has something to do with oil sucking
through the vent hose? I wonder if being 180 off would cause suction or
something there?

What sort of crankcase ventilation does it use? In my car that hose got
kinked and it went through several quarts of oil before I figured out
what was going on.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It just has a hose going from the crankcase to the air filter. It's
unlikely that it's clogged but you could blow a little air through it
to be sure.

There are two raised indentations on the timing gear. They should be
horizontal and lined up with the top of the engine case while the
piston is at TDC. Pull out the spark plug and turn the engine until
the piston is at the top.

Was your oil splasher/governor gear broken? If so then I'd say your
piston/cylinder did not recieve enough lubrication and it's now too
worn to seal against oil. That little plastic gear seems to be what
does in these engines. I supspect that if you do a compression check
you'll find the pressure is low.

I may not be able to connect again until next spring--when it rains my
phone line goes out :-|

Good luck.