I almost bought a Honda EU2000i generator at the state fair 2 years ago
(best price I'd seen) but I passed on it, mostly because I'd taken the
bus to the fair and didn't want to wag the thing home on a bus.

Anyway, I'm getting interested in them again, and might buy one after
hurricane season is over and before winter (ice storm season) sets in.
But nobody lists their prices online. Is that a Honda thing? What is
the street price of a EU2000i -- ignoring the current Hurricane Ike
situation. Know any good dealers?

I also can't find any specs on expected engine life of the little
Hondas. I know some of the really cheap 5000W generators are only rated
about 500 hours, and you could burn that up in a month during an
extended power outage.

I also can't find any small 1800 rpm diesel generators that might be a
contender. There /are/ small diesels (Yanmar and Chinese knockoffs) but
they all operate at 3600 rpm, which should have most of the durability
problems of 3600 rpm gasoline engines.

Thanks,
Bob

On Thu, 18 Sep 2008 22:45:33 -0500, zxcvbob wrote:

I almost bought a Honda EU2000i generator at the state fair 2 years ago
(best price I'd seen) but I passed on it, mostly because I'd taken the
bus to the fair and didn't want to wag the thing home on a bus.

Anyway, I'm getting interested in them again, and might buy one after
hurricane season is over and before winter (ice storm season) sets in.
But nobody lists their prices online. Is that a Honda thing? What is
the street price of a EU2000i -- ignoring the current Hurricane Ike
situation. Know any good dealers?

I also can't find any specs on expected engine life of the little
Hondas. I know some of the really cheap 5000W generators are only rated
about 500 hours, and you could burn that up in a month during an
extended power outage.

I also can't find any small 1800 rpm diesel generators that might be a
contender. There /are/ small diesels (Yanmar and Chinese knockoffs) but
they all operate at 3600 rpm, which should have most of the durability
problems of 3600 rpm gasoline engines.

Thanks,
Bob

My brother-in-law has a Honda generator he aquired several years ago, 15 or
so, and it is still going strong and is very quiet. We were on a island
several years ago when he heard someone in the wee hours of the morning, so
he got up, gave it one pull, and the lights went on. They didn't even know
it was from a generator! If I had the money I would go for the Honda.

zxcvbob wrote in news:6jglidF39225U1
@mid.individual.net:

I almost bought a Honda EU2000i generator at the state fair 2 years ago
(best price I'd seen) but I passed on it, mostly because I'd taken the
bus to the fair and didn't want to wag the thing home on a bus.

Anyway, I'm getting interested in them again, and might buy one after
hurricane season is over and before winter (ice storm season) sets in.
But nobody lists their prices online. Is that a Honda thing? What is
the street price of a EU2000i -- ignoring the current Hurricane Ike
situation. Know any good dealers?

I also can't find any specs on expected engine life of the little
Hondas. I know some of the really cheap 5000W generators are only
rated
about 500 hours, and you could burn that up in a month during an
extended power outage.


I've used eu2000s for a lot of years. I've had failures after 3-4 years
of around 6 - 10 hours a day use. And then it was usually just the
timing belt which you can fix. We used the crap out of them and they'll
keep starting, and the power is clean and they're quiet as hell... and
sip the fuel.

If you only need 2000 watts and can afford them they are the way to go.
I've had the best deals from my local honda dealer.

I'm a big fan of these gens.. and they're light .. basically they kick
ass.

I think I paid around a grand for the last one .. like $960 or something,
but this was several years ago.

I am looking at a generator in this WEIGHT range. I already have a
much heavier unit that takes a hoist to put into a vehicle. The Yamaha
YG2800i is what I want to acquire once they become available again. A
bit more power, a few more pounds but a bit less expensive for an
inverter-type unit than the Honda.
Tom

On Thu, 18 Sep 2008 22:45:33 -0500, zxcvbob
wrote:

I almost bought a Honda EU2000i generator at the state fair 2 years ago
(best price I'd seen) but I passed on it, mostly because I'd taken the
bus to the fair and didn't want to wag the thing home on a bus.

Anyway, I'm getting interested in them again, and might buy one after
hurricane season is over and before winter (ice storm season) sets in.
But nobody lists their prices online. Is that a Honda thing? What is
the street price of a EU2000i -- ignoring the current Hurricane Ike
situation. Know any good dealers?

I also can't find any specs on expected engine life of the little
Hondas. I know some of the really cheap 5000W generators are only rated
about 500 hours, and you could burn that up in a month during an
extended power outage.

I also can't find any small 1800 rpm diesel generators that might be a
contender. There /are/ small diesels (Yanmar and Chinese knockoffs) but
they all operate at 3600 rpm, which should have most of the durability
problems of 3600 rpm gasoline engines.

Thanks,
Bob
---- Posted via Pronews.com - Premium Corporate Usenet News Provider ----
http://www.pronews.com offers corporate packages that have access to 100,000+ newsgroups

"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...

Yep, Honda does not allow Internet price advertising, so you need to call around
and do your own shopping. As I recall, you can thank our current administration
for allowing that particular consumer unfriendly behavior.

Join the EU2000i Yahoo group
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/...00_Generators/
and ask there where folks are buying lately. I have seen new EUs on e-bay, but
I am not quite brave enough to send that kind of money to a blind account and
get...what?

I own one, they are great products. I bought mine he http://www.sunelec.com/
Give them a call and get a price. Let us know where you finally buy.


--
Vaughn

.................................................. .......
Nothing personal, but if you are posting through Google Groups I may not receive
your message. Google refuses to control the flood of spam messages originating
in their system, so on any given day I may or may not have Google blocked. Try
a real NNTP server & news reader program and you will never go back. All you
need is access to an NNTP server (AKA "news server") and a news reader program.
You probably already have a news reader program in your computer (Hint: Outlook
Express). Assuming that your Usenet needs are modest, use
http://news.aioe.org/ for free and/or http://www.teranews.com/ for a one-time
$3.95 setup fee.
.................................................. ........

Will poofread for food.

On Thu, 18 Sep 2008 22:45:33 -0500, zxcvbob wrote:

I almost bought a Honda EU2000i generator at the state fair 2 years ago
(best price I'd seen) but I passed on it, mostly because I'd taken the
bus to the fair and didn't want to wag the thing home on a bus.

Anyway, I'm getting interested in them again, and might buy one after
hurricane season is over and before winter (ice storm season) sets in.
But nobody lists their prices online. Is that a Honda thing? What is
the street price of a EU2000i -- ignoring the current Hurricane Ike
situation. Know any good dealers?

Yes, that's a honda thing. If your needs fit an inverter generator (most
people's don't), I recommend the Yamaha line, partially because of the honda
thing. The Yamahas are actually better units and Yamaha doesn't have that
same price-fixing attitude of honda.


I also can't find any specs on expected engine life of the little
Hondas. I know some of the really cheap 5000W generators are only rated
about 500 hours, and you could burn that up in a month during an
extended power outage.

I also can't find any small 1800 rpm diesel generators that might be a
contender. There /are/ small diesels (Yanmar and Chinese knockoffs) but
they all operate at 3600 rpm, which should have most of the durability
problems of 3600 rpm gasoline engines.

Before you buy a generator and before I can offer any advice you need to
identify what you want to do with it. Sit down, ask yourself that, write it
down and post it. Then we can look at some possibilities.

John
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com -- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
Daddy, why doesn't this magnet pick up this floppy?

"Neon John" wrote in message
...
Yes, that's a honda thing. If your needs fit an inverter generator (most
people's don't), I recommend the Yamaha line, partially because of the honda
thing. The Yamahas are actually better units and Yamaha doesn't have that
same price-fixing attitude of honda.

I bought two 1000 watt Yamaha inverter generators for my employer (initially
chose Yamaha because they were a bit cheaper & fit within my corporate credit
card limit). They are wonderful jewels! Yamaha is every bit as good as Honda.

Vaughn

Vaughn Simon wrote:
....
Yep, Honda does not allow Internet price advertising, so you need to call around
and do your own shopping. As I recall, you can thank our current administration
for allowing that particular consumer unfriendly behavior.
....
And why should a company not be allowed to set whatever policies for
their dealers/products they wish?

Surely if this particular peccadillo of yours were particularly
user-belligerent it would be self-defeating and correct itself...

--

On Thu, 18 Sep 2008 22:45:33 -0500, zxcvbob
wrote:
Anyway, I'm getting interested in them again, and might buy one after
hurricane season is over and before winter (ice storm season) sets in.
But nobody lists their prices online. Is that a Honda thing? What is
the street price of a EU2000i -- ignoring the current Hurricane Ike
situation. Know any good dealers?
Have these guys send you a catalog, or visit one of their stores if
you have one nearby
www2.northerntool.com/generators.htm
specs, etc will be in there

The reason, to me, that you want a Honda generator is that you want
the Honda engine. I have one of their Honda-powered Northstar
generators and it has proven reliable since 2000. Have run it for 8
days during Isabel with a tree on the house. Just used it when a tree
felled by remains of a storm took out power, phone, cable.
No problems, ever.
YMMV
starrin

On Sep 18, 10:45*pm, zxcvbob wrote:
I almost bought a Honda EU2000i generator at the state fair 2 years ago
(best price I'd seen) but I passed on it, mostly because I'd taken the
bus to the fair and didn't want to wag the thing home on a bus.

Anyway, I'm getting interested in them again, and might buy one after
hurricane season is over and before winter (ice storm season) sets in.
But nobody lists their prices online. *Is that a Honda thing? *What is
the street price of a EU2000i -- ignoring the current Hurricane Ike
situation. *Know any good dealers?

I also can't find any specs on expected engine life of the little
Hondas. *I know some of the really cheap 5000W generators are only rated
about 500 hours, and you could burn that up in a month during an
extended power outage.

I also can't find any small 1800 rpm diesel generators that might be a
contender. *There /are/ small diesels (Yanmar and Chinese knockoffs) but
they all operate at 3600 rpm, which should have most of the durability
problems of 3600 rpm gasoline engines.

Thanks,
Bob

The honda can last 15000 hours if run easy, RPM is load dependant so
at 100w it might only run 900 rpm, it also has as clean or cleaner
power then your utility co, alt.energy.homepower is where folks are
that have gotten 15000 hours, bull full load it and maybe you get
2-3000

http://www.google.com/products?q=+Ho...oducts&hl =en

No prices? Plenty listed on a google product search.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...
I almost bought a Honda EU2000i generator at the state fair 2 years ago
(best price I'd seen) but I passed on it, mostly because I'd taken the
bus to the fair and didn't want to wag the thing home on a bus.

Anyway, I'm getting interested in them again, and might buy one after
hurricane season is over and before winter (ice storm season) sets in.
But nobody lists their prices online. Is that a Honda thing? What is
the street price of a EU2000i -- ignoring the current Hurricane Ike
situation. Know any good dealers?

I also can't find any specs on expected engine life of the little
Hondas. I know some of the really cheap 5000W generators are only rated
about 500 hours, and you could burn that up in a month during an
extended power outage.

I also can't find any small 1800 rpm diesel generators that might be a
contender. There /are/ small diesels (Yanmar and Chinese knockoffs) but
they all operate at 3600 rpm, which should have most of the durability
problems of 3600 rpm gasoline engines.

Thanks,
Bob

For occasional use disposable unit, ETQ makes one I really like. I got an
ETQ from Ebay for about $150, including shipping. Runs well enough to power
a very old furnace with about half HP blower motor. I was astounded how
quiet. And, it's about 55 pounds so I don't get a triple hernia trying to
lift it. 1000 watts or so, with one power socket. But, it's useful. I bet it
runs about 200 hours before it wears out, and then buy another one. But for
my use, that's 20 years of useful life. Mine gets maybe 10 hours a year of
run time.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Tom Kendrick" wrote in message
...
I am looking at a generator in this WEIGHT range. I already have a
much heavier unit that takes a hoist to put into a vehicle. The Yamaha
YG2800i is what I want to acquire once they become available again. A
bit more power, a few more pounds but a bit less expensive for an
inverter-type unit than the Honda.
Tom

the one place that listed a price on Google search was about a thousand
dollars. I can get several ETQ brand generators for that money.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Vaughn Simon" wrote in
Yep, Honda does not allow Internet price advertising, so you need to call
around
and do your own shopping. As I recall, you can thank our current
administration
for allowing that particular consumer unfriendly behavior.

zxcvbob wrote:
I almost bought a Honda EU2000i generator at the state fair 2 years ago
(best price I'd seen) but I passed on it, mostly because I'd taken the
bus to the fair and didn't want to wag the thing home on a bus.

Anyway, I'm getting interested in them again, and might buy one after
hurricane season is over and before winter (ice storm season) sets in.
But nobody lists their prices online. Is that a Honda thing? What is
the street price of a EU2000i -- ignoring the current Hurricane Ike
situation. Know any good dealers?

I also can't find any specs on expected engine life of the little
Hondas. I know some of the really cheap 5000W generators are only rated
about 500 hours, and you could burn that up in a month during an
extended power outage.

I also can't find any small 1800 rpm diesel generators that might be a
contender. There /are/ small diesels (Yanmar and Chinese knockoffs) but
they all operate at 3600 rpm, which should have most of the durability
problems of 3600 rpm gasoline engines.

Thanks,
Bob
Hi,
I live in COLD climate. One thing about Honda, it is very easy to start
even in VERY cold weather. I never heard Honda engine dying after 500
hours of use. When I had camping trailer, I had small one which did it's
job beyond satisfaction.

The (below) link does show some parallel kits. Also lighting kit, and tri
fuel so you can run LPG.

http://www.google.com/products?q=+Ho...oducts&hl =en

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"AJH" wrote in message
...


Can they be run in parallel?

Z has given figures for Honda eu2000 life, I have had similar life for
a Honda engined generic genset, do you think Yamaha will be as long
lived?

Has anyone any experience of running Yamaha inverter gensets on lpg?

AJH

Vaughn Simon wrote:
"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...

Yep, Honda does not allow Internet price advertising, so you need to call around
and do your own shopping. As I recall, you can thank our current administration
for allowing that particular consumer unfriendly behavior.

Join the EU2000i Yahoo group
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/...00_Generators/
and ask there where folks are buying lately. I have seen new EUs on e-bay, but
I am not quite brave enough to send that kind of money to a blind account and
get...what?

I own one, they are great products. I bought mine he http://www.sunelec.com/
Give them a call and get a price. Let us know where you finally buy.


Hi,
There are many dompanies doing that. Not only Honda.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
I can get several ETQ brand generators for that money.

Apples and oranges. I could have bought several tents for the price of my
home.

Vaughn

On Fri, 19 Sep 2008 10:32:03 -0400, Stormin Mormon wrote:

The (below) link does show some parallel kits. Also lighting kit, and tri
fuel so you can run LPG.

http://www.google.com/products?q=+Ho...oducts&hl =en

I like the idea of LPG. You don't have fuel sitting in the tank or carb or
anything. A little oil fog at shutdown for storage and it is good to go
next time. With gas or diesel you have greater potential for fuel
problems.

"AJH" wrote in message
...
Has anyone any experience of running Yamaha inverter gensets on lpg?

I have no direct experience, but this company
http://www.yamaha-propane-natural-gas-generators.com/ claims to be
factory-authorized to sell new/warrantied Yamaha generators pre-converted to LPG
or tri-fuel. They also sell kits.

Vaughn

On Sep 19, 9:47*am, Mike Dobony wrote:
On Fri, 19 Sep 2008 10:32:03 -0400, Stormin Mormon wrote:
The (below) link does show some parallel kits. Also lighting kit, and tri
fuel so you can run LPG.

* *http://www.google.com/products?q=+Ho...earch+Products...

I like the idea of LPG. *You don't have fuel sitting in the tank or carb or
anything. *A little oil fog at shutdown for storage and it is good to go
next time. *With gas or diesel you have greater potential for fuel
problems.

The TRI fuel kits are great you can even run them off home NG at a
cheaper cost.

In alt.energy.homepower Neon John wrote:
On Thu, 18 Sep 2008 22:45:33 -0500, zxcvbob wrote:

I almost bought a Honda EU2000i generator at the state fair 2 years ago
(best price I'd seen) but I passed on it, mostly because I'd taken the
bus to the fair and didn't want to wag the thing home on a bus.

Anyway, I'm getting interested in them again, and might buy one after
hurricane season is over and before winter (ice storm season) sets in.
But nobody lists their prices online. Is that a Honda thing? What is
the street price of a EU2000i -- ignoring the current Hurricane Ike
situation. Know any good dealers?

Yes, that's a honda thing. If your needs fit an inverter generator (most
people's don't), I recommend the Yamaha line, partially because of the honda
thing. The Yamahas are actually better units and Yamaha doesn't have that
same price-fixing attitude of honda.

It is obnoxious to find honda stuff online, as they seem to not want their
dealers to sell outside their territory. For just plain engines, I like a
place called Helmuth Repair. They don't pull shipping price scams either.

What's better about the yamaha generators? Are these the ones with a blue
housing?

On Sep 18, 10:45*pm, zxcvbob wrote:
I almost bought a Honda EU2000i generator at the state fair 2 years ago
(best price I'd seen) but I passed on it, mostly because I'd taken the
bus to the fair and didn't want to wag the thing home on a bus.

Anyway, I'm getting interested in them again, and might buy one after
hurricane season is over and before winter (ice storm season) sets in.
But nobody lists their prices online. *Is that a Honda thing? *What is
the street price of a EU2000i -- ignoring the current Hurricane Ike
situation. *Know any good dealers?

I also can't find any specs on expected engine life of the little
Hondas. *I know some of the really cheap 5000W generators are only rated
about 500 hours, and you could burn that up in a month during an
extended power outage.

I also can't find any small 1800 rpm diesel generators that might be a
contender. *There /are/ small diesels (Yanmar and Chinese knockoffs) but
they all operate at 3600 rpm, which should have most of the durability
problems of 3600 rpm gasoline engines.

Thanks,
Bob

www.Propane-Generators.com

On Sep 18, 11:45*pm, zxcvbob wrote:
But nobody lists their prices online. *Is that a Honda thing? *What is
the street price of a EU2000i -- ignoring the current Hurricane Ike
situation. *Know any good dealers?

Honda has a good thing and they know it. Nobody else can come close to
the reliability, durability, sound level, and power quality, even
though they claim to do so, and price their products accordingly.

What Honda is doing is encouraging you to work through local dealers
rather than allowing online companies to blatantly undercut the local
dealers. They do it because they can.

This is pro mom-n-pop stores, not anti-consumer.

If you have a camping world in your area, and know someone with a
president's club card, you can get the 2000 for $929, IIRC.

Vaughn Simon wrote:
"AJH" wrote in message
...
Has anyone any experience of running Yamaha inverter gensets on lpg?

I have no direct experience, but this company
http://www.yamaha-propane-natural-gas-generators.com/ claims to be
factory-authorized to sell new/warrantied Yamaha generators pre-converted to LPG
or tri-fuel. They also sell kits.

Vaughn




That tri-fuel model looks very interesting. I also like that it is
surge-rated to 6000W. It's heavier than I wanted... I'll have to think
about it. Thanks.

Bob

Neon John wrote in
:

On Thu, 18 Sep 2008 22:45:33 -0500, zxcvbob
wrote:

I almost bought a Honda EU2000i generator at the state fair 2 years
ago (best price I'd seen) but I passed on it, mostly because I'd taken
the bus to the fair and didn't want to wag the thing home on a bus.

Anyway, I'm getting interested in them again, and might buy one after
hurricane season is over and before winter (ice storm season) sets in.
But nobody lists their prices online. Is that a Honda thing? What is
the street price of a EU2000i -- ignoring the current Hurricane Ike
situation. Know any good dealers?

Yes, that's a honda thing. If your needs fit an inverter generator
(most people's don't), I recommend the Yamaha line, partially because
of the honda thing. The Yamahas are actually better units and Yamaha
doesn't have that same price-fixing attitude of honda.



I like the yamaha's too.. the newer ones. I got onto the honda only
because the yamaha I bought had a problem with the inverter when they
first came out with an inverter model. Much MUCH line noise. Yamaha
fixed that but by that time I was a honda guy.

If I was going to start out fresh I'd give the Yamaha a hard look no
doubt.

In alt.energy.homepower Neon John wrote:

Yes, that's a honda thing. If your needs fit an inverter generator
(most people's don't), I recommend the Yamaha line, partially because
of the honda thing. The Yamahas are actually better units and Yamaha
doesn't have that same price-fixing attitude of honda.


I want to be able to run my furnace blower, gas oven ignitors,
refrigerator, TV, laptop computer, and a few fluorescent lights during
an extended power outage during the winter. Or during the summer, the
same thing except a 8000 BTU (11 EER) window A/C instead of the furnace.
I also have a couple of freezers that might need to be plugged in a
couple of hours each day, but I could unplug the fridge when I do that.
I think I could get by OK with a generator rated for 110V 1600W
continuous power. I could certainly get by with it a lot better than I
could with no generator at all.

The Honda is also a nice size to throw in the back of a truck to take to
a job site to run 110V power tools, like various electric saws or lighting.

I keep putting off buying a generator because the power here in town is
so reliable. But my parents down in East Texas near Houston have been
living off a cheap 5000W generator for a week now and it's scary how
fast it burns up the gasoline they had stored. One gas station just
opened up for business again a couple of days ago (all the other
stations are still closed because they don't have power) and you have to
wait for hours in line at the one Exxon station and hope they don't run
out before you get to the front of the line. We don't get hurricanes up
here, but we do get tornadoes and ice storms (usually not at the same time)

That's why the tri-fuel conversion looks mighty good.

Bob

On Sep 19, 12:09*pm, zxcvbob wrote:
In alt.energy.homepower Neon John wrote:

Yes, that's a honda thing. *If your needs fit an inverter generator
(most people's don't), I recommend the Yamaha line, partially because
of the honda thing. *The Yamahas are actually better units and Yamaha
doesn't have that same price-fixing attitude of honda.

I want to be able to run my furnace blower, gas oven ignitors,
refrigerator, TV, laptop computer, and a few fluorescent lights during
an extended power outage during the winter. Or during the summer, the
same thing except a 8000 BTU (11 EER) window A/C instead of the furnace.
* I also have a couple of freezers that might need to be plugged in a
couple of hours each day, but I could unplug the fridge when I do that.
* I think I could get by OK with a generator rated for 110V 1600W
continuous power. *I could certainly get by with it a lot better than I
could with no generator at all.

The Honda is also a nice size to throw in the back of a truck to take to
a job site to run 110V power tools, like various electric saws or lighting.

I keep putting off buying a generator because the power here in town is
so reliable. *But my parents down in East Texas near Houston have been
living off a cheap 5000W generator for a week now and it's scary how
fast it burns up the gasoline they had stored. *One gas station just
opened up for business again a couple of days ago (all the other
stations are still closed because they don't have power) and you have to
wait for hours in line at the one Exxon station and hope they don't run
out before you get to the front of the line. *We don't get hurricanes up
here, but we do get tornadoes and ice storms (usually not at the same time)

That's why the tri-fuel conversion looks mighty good.

Bob

1600 watt, you will tax it to a short life and may not get everything
running at once. A furnace figure 375-425 watts with 600 surge, A
frige figure 120-500 watts with 1000 surge in defrost cycle my old
frige uses near 600 watts, TV 150 -300 w. You need to calculate surge
load and have at least 1000 watts reserve. A unit that small will be
under near 100% stress load and things dont last long stressed. Hondas
site has a good page on run and surge load of different apliances. To
be correct you need to test everything for load and surge draw first.
Old apliances and things nearing end of life can have surge loads
Tripple, that could realy hurt you unit. There is also voltage swing,
unless its a inverter honda a small gen will be hard to control to run
everything safely

"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...

I want to be able to run my furnace blower, gas oven ignitors, refrigerator,
TV, laptop computer, and a few fluorescent lights during an extended power
outage during the winter. Or during the summer, the same thing except a 8000
BTU (11 EER) window A/C instead of the furnace.

If you expect that the EU will normally be loaded above 1000 watts, you will
get little benefit from the inverter technology. The really great thing about
the inverter units is that they modulate engine speed depending on load. Over
about 60% load (the EU 2000 is really only rated at 1600 watts) your EU will be
reving like any other generator, and you will have given up most of the reason
for all of that extra electronics, co$t, and complexity.

I also have a couple of freezers that might need to be plugged in a couple of
hours each day, but I could unplug the fridge when I do that. I think I could
get by OK with a generator rated for 110V 1600W continuous power. I could
certainly get by with it a lot better than I could with no generator at all.

You are thinking about load management...good!



The Honda is also a nice size to throw in the back of a truck to take to a job
site to run 110V power tools, like various electric saws or lighting.

True, but be sure to chain the thing down!

I keep putting off buying a generator because the power here in town is so
reliable. But my parents down in East Texas near Houston have been living off
a cheap 5000W generator for a week now and it's scary how fast it burns up the
gasoline they had stored. One gas station just opened up for business again a
couple of days ago (all the other stations are still closed because they don't
have power) and you have to wait for hours in line

Yes. I live in hurricane country, and the above is why my generator runs on
natural gas with propane as a backup. Few folks think about the fuel
consumption of their generators. I have seen people buy generators and not even
bother to buy a gas can! At 1 gallon ($4.00) per hour, nearly $100/day (IF you
can find the gas at all), I am sure that there are many folks in Texas today who
would gladly pay MSRP for something like an EU2000i.

Vaughn

Vaughn Simon wrote:
"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...
I want to be able to run my furnace blower, gas oven ignitors, refrigerator,
TV, laptop computer, and a few fluorescent lights during an extended power
outage during the winter. Or during the summer, the same thing except a 8000
BTU (11 EER) window A/C instead of the furnace.

If you expect that the EU will normally be loaded above 1000 watts, you will
get little benefit from the inverter technology. The really great thing about
the inverter units is that they modulate engine speed depending on load. Over
about 60% load (the EU 2000 is really only rated at 1600 watts) your EU will be
reving like any other generator, and you will have given up most of the reason
for all of that extra electronics, co$t, and complexity.


The refrigerator doesn't run all the time, it cycles on/off. And I
/might/ not have to run the A/C. Even running a few hundred fewer RPM's
for half the runtime has got to be easier on the engine. I expect it
will be running less than 1000W most of the time, but I wonder if it has
enough surge capacity (The Yamaha 2400 is an honest 2000W inverter and
it's rated 6000W for 3 seconds. I like that. It also weighs a lot
more; not sure if it can be shipped UPS Ground.)

I need to wait another couple of weeks for Texas to be powered-up again,
then start calling the generator dealers. Especially the ones in
Wisconsin because it's not so far/expensive to ship from there.

Bob

On Sep 19, 12:52*pm, zxcvbob wrote:
Vaughn Simon wrote:
"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...
I want to be able to run my furnace blower, gas oven ignitors, refrigerator,
TV, laptop computer, and a few fluorescent lights during an extended power
outage during the winter. Or during the summer, the same thing except a 8000
BTU (11 EER) window A/C instead of the furnace.

* *If you expect that the EU will normally be loaded above 1000 watts, you will
get little benefit from the inverter technology. *The really great thing about
the inverter units is that they modulate engine speed depending on load.. *Over
about 60% load (the EU 2000 is really only rated at 1600 watts) your EU will be
reving like any other generator, and you will have given up most of the reason
for all of that extra electronics, co$t, and *complexity.

The refrigerator doesn't run all the time, it cycles on/off. *And I
/might/ not have to run the A/C. *Even running a few hundred fewer RPM's
for half the runtime has got to be easier on the engine. *I expect it
will be running less than 1000W most of the time, but I wonder if it has
enough surge capacity (The Yamaha 2400 is an honest 2000W inverter and
it's rated 6000W for 3 seconds. *I like that. *It also weighs a lot
more; not sure if it can be shipped UPS Ground.)

I need to wait another couple of weeks for Texas to be powered-up again,
then start calling the generator dealers. *Especially the ones in
Wisconsin because it's not so far/expensive to ship from there.

Bob

How are you hooking it up, you realy need a transfer panel with what
you plan on using, At Lowes I got a Generac 5500-7500 gen for 600$
with a free pre wired 6 circuit with 2 amp meter transfer panel. Your
usage puts you at least in the 3000w range

ransley wrote:

The honda can last 15000 hours if run easy, RPM is load dependant so
at 100w it might only run 900 rpm, it also has as clean or cleaner
power then your utility co, alt.energy.homepower is where folks are
that have gotten 15000 hours, bull full load it and maybe you get
2-3000


That 15000 hours is more likely with a slow diesel or a water cooled gas
engine. I'd venture to say the Honda is more realistically rated at 2 to
3 thousand hours maximum, as compared to Briggs and Stratton's 500 hundred.




mike

"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...

The refrigerator doesn't run all the time, it cycles on/off. And I /might/
not have to run the A/C. Even running a few hundred fewer RPM's for half the
runtime has got to be easier on the engine. I expect it will be running less
than 1000W most of the time, but I wonder if it has enough surge capacity (The
Yamaha 2400 is an honest 2000W inverter and it's rated 6000W for 3 seconds. I
like that. It also weighs a lot more; not sure if it can be shipped UPS
Ground.)

For what it is worth, I did some tests with a little 1000 watt Yamaha
inverter generator. It ran my big 'fridge with a few hundred watts left over
for computers and things. (In the defrost cycle however, it had to run full
blast with everything else disconnected.) I forget the exact results, but it
would run a normal refrigerator forever on a single gallon of gas. With that
unit, you could keep your food cold keep a few lights on & run your TV for the
evening on one gallon per day. It was so quiet that your neighbors would not
even know you had a generator. Amazing.

Vaughn

On Sep 19, 1:49*pm, m II wrote:
ransley wrote:
The honda can last 15000 hours if run easy, RPM is load dependant so
at 100w it might only run 900 rpm, it also has as clean or cleaner
power then your utility co, alt.energy.homepower *is where folks are
that have gotten 15000 hours, bull full load it and maybe you get
2-3000

That 15000 hours is more likely with a slow diesel or a water cooled gas
engine. I'd venture to say the Honda is more realistically rated at 2 to
3 thousand hours maximum, as compared to Briggs and Stratton's 500 hundred.

mike

I have talked to people that claim near 15000 on campers. The reason
is simple, the EU is not a 3600 rpm unit unless its full load, RPM is
load dependant. Put it on a camper to run a few hundred watts and the
3500 watt unit might turn 900 rpm. At 900 RPM it might just last 50000
hours. There is a 900 rpm Deisel made in India that are known to last
100,000 hours. But load up a EU and 1500 - 2000 hours might ruin it.
Take a car on a race track it might not last a day, drive it easy it
might last 150000 miles. Tecumpsee and B&S non ohv 3600 rpm motors
might only go 3-350 hours, mine did.

zxcvbob wrote:

(The Yamaha 2400 is an honest 2000W inverter and
it's rated 6000W for 3 seconds. I like that. It also weighs a lot
more; not sure if it can be shipped UPS Ground.)


I may have the Yamaha 2400i and 2800i models mixed up that 6000W thing.

I've done some searching and there are places that will ship them for
reasonable shipping costs (like free), and they are both convertible to
NG/LPG. They cost about the same, weigh about the same, but the 2800 is
about 10 dB louder (that's a big difference.)

I wonder if I could run it *inside* my detached garage to keep it out of
the weather and keep it from "walking off", and use some kind of powered
exhaust vent...

Bob

On Sep 19, 2:30*pm, zxcvbob wrote:
Vaughn Simon wrote:
"AJH" wrote in message
.. .
Has anyone any experience of running Yamaha inverter gensets on lpg?

* *I have no direct experience, but this company
http://www.yamaha-propane-natural-ga...ors.com/claims to be
factory-authorized to sell new/warrantied Yamaha generators pre-converted to LPG
or tri-fuel. *They also sell kits.

Vaughn

That tri-fuel model looks very interesting. *I also like that it is
surge-rated to 6000W. *It's heavier than I wanted... *I'll have to think
about it. *Thanks.

Bob

Re the above discussion of Honda versus Yamaha.
Is it not interesting that some of the best products (generators,
motor cycles, cars, electronics etc.) come from Japan; one of the
countries with high wages, and one of the most expensive to live in in
the world!
Back before WWII Japanese goods were considered tinny and cheap, same
as Chinese and certain other Asian goods are viewed today.
Just wait until the Chinese, as they are rapidly doing, improve the
quality of their products and raise their standard of living, along
with competition from India.
The rest of the 'Old World' won't get a look in!
So long British bicycles, German cars, US electronics and electrics
etc.!
For some time certain 'quality products' such as custom built yachts
and fine furniture, have been produced in places such as Hong Kong,
once again part of China.
Makes on think, eh?

zxcvbob wrote:

zxcvbob wrote:


(The Yamaha 2400 is an honest 2000W inverter and it's rated 6000W for
3 seconds. I like that. It also weighs a lot more; not sure if it
can be shipped UPS Ground.)


I may have the Yamaha 2400i and 2800i models mixed up that 6000W thing.

I've done some searching and there are places that will ship them for
reasonable shipping costs (like free), and they are both convertible to
NG/LPG. They cost about the same, weigh about the same, but the 2800 is
about 10 dB louder (that's a big difference.)

I wonder if I could run it *inside* my detached garage to keep it out of
the weather and keep it from "walking off", and use some kind of powered
exhaust vent...

Bob
No!

Per zxcvbob:
I wonder if I could run it *inside* my detached garage to keep it out of
the weather and keep it from "walking off", and use some kind of powered
exhaust vent...

How detached is "detached".

I'd be worried to the fringes of paranoia about carbon monoxide.

As far as the gennie goes, I've run mine in my garden shed (about
75' from the house) with no problems. OTOH, a garage is a lot
nicer/cleaner environment to begin with and smell/exhaust fumes
settling on things might be an issue. But as far as the
generator being able to breathe goes, the garden shed seems tb
ok. Roof line vent, couple jalousie windows, about 6 x 10 feet
floor space.
--
PeteCresswell

(PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per zxcvbob:
I wonder if I could run it *inside* my detached garage to keep it out of
the weather and keep it from "walking off", and use some kind of powered
exhaust vent...

How detached is "detached".

I'd be worried to the fringes of paranoia about carbon monoxide.

As far as the gennie goes, I've run mine in my garden shed (about
75' from the house) with no problems. OTOH, a garage is a lot
nicer/cleaner environment to begin with and smell/exhaust fumes
settling on things might be an issue. But as far as the
generator being able to breathe goes, the garden shed seems tb
ok. Roof line vent, couple jalousie windows, about 6 x 10 feet
floor space.


IIRC it's about 20 x 25 feet, with a high "ceiling" and open rafters.
Couple of small windows in the back, and a double garage door that could
be left cracked open an inch. It's about 20' from the house.

I use an unvented forced-air [kerosene] heater in there sometimes with
no problems. I would probably add a 1600 cfm electric gable vent at the
back, but that would be really handy anyway in the summer.

Bob

On Fri, 19 Sep 2008 12:09:03 -0500, zxcvbob wrote:


In alt.energy.homepower Neon John wrote:

Yes, that's a honda thing. If your needs fit an inverter generator
(most people's don't), I recommend the Yamaha line, partially because
of the honda thing. The Yamahas are actually better units and Yamaha
doesn't have that same price-fixing attitude of honda.


I want to be able to run my furnace blower, gas oven ignitors,
refrigerator, TV, laptop computer, and a few fluorescent lights during
an extended power outage during the winter. Or during the summer, the
same thing except a 8000 BTU (11 EER) window A/C instead of the furnace.
I also have a couple of freezers that might need to be plugged in a
couple of hours each day, but I could unplug the fridge when I do that.
I think I could get by OK with a generator rated for 110V 1600W
continuous power. I could certainly get by with it a lot better than I
could with no generator at all.

The Honda is also a nice size to throw in the back of a truck to take to
a job site to run 110V power tools, like various electric saws or lighting.

Your parents' experience with the gas hog is one reason why I asked the
question. Far too many people find out the hard way about how much fuel it
takes to keep a 4 or 5kW generator running.

Unless you go for the very high dollar 3 or 4kW versions, an inverter
generator isn't a good match for your load mix. The reason is that they have
no surge reserve. That is, no motor starting reserve.

For instance, the EU2000 has a continuous rating of 1,600 VA (nice little fib
there in the model number) but a peak of only 2000 VA. A momentary load, say,
starting the compressor of the AC, of even a tiny bit over 2000 VA and the
inverter shuts down, requiring an engine stop and restart.

A conventional generator, OTOH, may slow down a little and dip the voltage but
it will supply much more surge current than its nominal full load rating. In
isolation, an EU2000 or Yamaha equivalent would probably run any of the items
you mentioned (minor question on the AC) The problem is trying to run several
loads at once.

For instance, you might have the lights, a PC and the refrigerator running
when the little AC tries to start. There simply isn't enough headroom left to
do the job.

Yamaha has addressed this problem with their "boost" technology that uses the
cranking battery to supply surge current

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/outdoor/.../444/home.aspx

But this is a high dollar generator.

What I recommend is to get two different generators: a little 1kW unit to run
your lights, PC and other light loads and a larger one, say 2500 watts, for
the AC, furnace blower and perhaps the refrigerator. (depending on the fridge,
it might run on the 1kW unit.)

The 1 kW unit which just sips fuel, can be run all the time. The larger
generator can either be started and stopped as needed or can use the no-load
idle-down feature that almost all constant-speed generators have to return to
idle when no load is applied.

Buying chicom generators, you can get two for less than the price of one big
name inverter generator. The 1kW 2-stroke unit that Northern Tool and others
sell for as little as $99 does a fine job. I have two of 'em. One of those
will start and run my electric lawn mower, something my 2,500 watt inverter
will not do. A 4-stroke version is about double that price but, IMO, not
worth it. The 2-stroke version is fairly quiet and with "no smoke" oil like
Northern Tool sells, emits almost no fumes.

Harbor Freight, Pep Boys and many other similar places sell a nice little 2500
watt generator in the $300 range. Some versions use a honda clone engine
manufactured under license from Honda. (I know the Pep Boys one does, not
sure about the rest) Here's Harbor Freight's version:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=92456

If you dedicate the 2500 watt unit to the AC, furnace fan and perhaps the
refrigerator then it can idle down when there is no load, further conserving
fuel.

If you really just want 1 generator then I'd go with something in the 2500
watt class.

John


I keep putting off buying a generator because the power here in town is
so reliable. But my parents down in East Texas near Houston have been
living off a cheap 5000W generator for a week now and it's scary how
fast it burns up the gasoline they had stored. One gas station just
opened up for business again a couple of days ago (all the other
stations are still closed because they don't have power) and you have to
wait for hours in line at the one Exxon station and hope they don't run
out before you get to the front of the line. We don't get hurricanes up
here, but we do get tornadoes and ice storms (usually not at the same time)

That's why the tri-fuel conversion looks mighty good.

Bob
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com -- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
Vegetarian - Indian word for "poor hunter".

On Fri, 19 Sep 2008 12:52:46 -0500, zxcvbob wrote:


The refrigerator doesn't run all the time, it cycles on/off. And I
/might/ not have to run the A/C. Even running a few hundred fewer RPM's
for half the runtime has got to be easier on the engine. I expect it
will be running less than 1000W most of the time, but I wonder if it has
enough surge capacity (The Yamaha 2400 is an honest 2000W inverter and
it's rated 6000W for 3 seconds. I like that. It also weighs a lot
more; not sure if it can be shipped UPS Ground.)

Thing is, the inverter generator engines actually turn FASTER with significant
load than a constant speed generator. For example, per the manual, the EU2000
turns 5000 RPM at full load. They don't give any indication in the manual as
to what the load vs speed slope is but from first hand experience, it doesn't
take much load to get the engine spinning rapidly.


I need to wait another couple of weeks for Texas to be powered-up again,
then start calling the generator dealers. Especially the ones in
Wisconsin because it's not so far/expensive to ship from there.

Check around the net. Many of the larger generator dealers offer free
shipping.

John
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com -- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
There is nothing more frightening than active ignorance. ~Goethe