-------------------------------------

Hi,
I install home computers, and recently I was in a beautiful old house to
install a machine but found there were only two-prong ungrounded outlets.
I didn't know what else I could do, so I removed the grounding prongs from
a six-splitter and plugged that into the wall. I plugged the computer and
the LCD display into the six-splitter. Can someone tell me if this is
dangerous and if so how dangerous?
Thanks very much.
chuck


##-----------------------------------------------##
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Building Construction and Maintenance Forum
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alt.home.repair - 310791 messages and counting!
##-----------------------------------------------##

chuckferguson wrote:

-------------------------------------

Hi,
I install home computers, and recently I was in a beautiful old house to
install a machine but found there were only two-prong ungrounded outlets.
I didn't know what else I could do, so I removed the grounding prongs from
a six-splitter and plugged that into the wall. I plugged the computer and
the LCD display into the six-splitter. Can someone tell me if this is
dangerous and if so how dangerous?
Thanks very much.
chuck

Dangerous to humans? Probably not much, since computers are mostly
plastic these days. Dangerous to the computer- probably to definitely,
depending on how house is wired, and how often power goes flakey in that
part of town. Did you tell your boss what you did? Did you pull a cover
and see if the feed wire had a ground, or perhaps was grounded through
metallic conduit? Cure may be as simple as switching the outlet for a
grounded one, hooked up properly. A gfci could be installed with the
appropriate label as being non-grounded. PROPER cure is to get an
electrician in there- if the house wiring is marginal, best cure is to
snake a dedicated string back to service panel, just for the computer
station. If the people use this computer to make a living, a small UPS
box is probably indicated.

--
aem sends...

If the entire house has 2 prong outlets. the easiest thing to do would
be to install GFI breakers to protect the entire circuit ( except the
fridge circuit).

"chuckferguson" wrote in message
...


-------------------------------------

Hi,
I install home computers, and recently I was in a beautiful old house to
install a machine but found there were only two-prong ungrounded outlets.
I didn't know what else I could do, so I removed the grounding prongs from
a six-splitter and plugged that into the wall. I plugged the computer and
the LCD display into the six-splitter. Can someone tell me if this is
dangerous and if so how dangerous?
Thanks very much.
chuck


##-----------------------------------------------##
Delivered via http://www.thestuccocompany.com/
Building Construction and Maintenance Forum
Web and RSS access to your favorite newsgroup -
alt.home.repair - 310791 messages and counting!
##-----------------------------------------------##


For you, not being an electrician, the most practical thing to do is carry a
few grounding adapters like these:
http://www.radioshack.com/sm-3-prong...i-2104010.html.
Make your installation using the adapters and instruct the customer to
contact their electrician to provide a grounded outlet for the installed
equipment.

If a power wire inside the computer touches the (metal) case of the
computer, the case can become energized. And thus, a shock hazard to the
people. With a grounded system, the power goes through the ground wire back
to the earth. With the ground prong cut off, the power goes through the
person, electrocuting that person.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"chuckferguson" wrote in message
...

Hi,
I install home computers, and recently I was in a beautiful old house to
install a machine but found there were only two-prong ungrounded outlets.
I didn't know what else I could do, so I removed the grounding prongs from
a six-splitter and plugged that into the wall. I plugged the computer and
the LCD display into the six-splitter. Can someone tell me if this is
dangerous and if so how dangerous?
Thanks very much.
chuck

Hi,
I install home computers, and recently I was in a beautiful old house to
install a machine but found there were only two-prong ungrounded outlets.
I didn't know what else I could do, so I removed the grounding prongs from
a six-splitter and plugged that into the wall. I plugged the computer and
the LCD display into the six-splitter. Can someone tell me if this is
dangerous and if so how dangerous?
Thanks very much.
chuck

Explain it to the home owners, let them decide weather to go forward
or not,
Advise them to contact an electrician, and have them sign a release of
liability.
You may have just screwed yourself.
Lou

Claude Hopper wrote:
chuckferguson wrote:
-------------------------------------

Hi,
I install home computers, and recently I was in a beautiful old house to
install a machine but found there were only two-prong ungrounded outlets.
I didn't know what else I could do, so I removed the grounding prongs from
a six-splitter and plugged that into the wall. I plugged the computer and
the LCD display into the six-splitter. Can someone tell me if this is
dangerous and if so how dangerous?
Thanks very much.
chuck


##-----------------------------------------------##
Delivered via http://www.thestuccocompany.com/
Building Construction and Maintenance Forum
Web and RSS access to your favorite newsgroup -
alt.home.repair - 310791 messages and counting!
##-----------------------------------------------##


NEVER cut a ground prong! Just get the little gray adapters that convert
3 prong to 2 with a green wire that has a spade lug on it. Plug the
power strip into the adapter, connect the adapter green wire to the
middle screw on the wall plug. If it's grounded it will be grounded, if
it isn't it isn't. Not your problem. Plug the adapter into the 2 prong
outlet. Point out to the owners that this is not the best connection but
they should be used to it since they must have had to do this all over
the house. Check and see how they have their microwave plugged.


BEST reply!!

Lou

In article ,
"Stormin Mormon" wrote:

If a power wire inside the computer touches the (metal) case of the
computer, the case can become energized. And thus, a shock hazard to the
people. With a grounded system, the power goes through the ground wire back
to the earth. With the ground prong cut off, the power goes through the
person, electrocuting that person.

Bah. Show me one news article from anywhere in the world at any time
since the advent of personal computers in which someone was
"electrocuted" -- the word means shocked to death -- in the fashion you
describe.

OP, I wouldn't worry about it.

On Sep 1, 2:40*pm, (chuckferguson)
wrote:
-------------------------------------

Hi,
I install home computers, and recently I was in a beautiful old house to
install a machine but found there were only two-prong ungrounded outlets.
I didn't know what else I could do, so I removed the grounding prongs from
a six-splitter and plugged that into the wall. I plugged the computer and
the LCD display into the six-splitter. Can someone tell me if this is
dangerous and if so how dangerous?
Thanks very much.
chuck

##-----------------------------------------------##
Delivered via *http://www.thestuccocompany.com/
Building Construction and Maintenance Forum
Web and RSS access to your favorite newsgroup -
alt.home.repair - 310791 messages and counting!
##-----------------------------------------------##

Installing a two prong to three prong adapter (or a "grounding"
adapter) is usually the same thing as cutting the ground prong off of
a cord; if an equipment grounding conductor was present then a three
prong receptacle would have been installed. I have never run across a
two prong receptacle installed on a branch circuit that had an
equipment grounding conducter present. For those that insist a conduit
acts as the equipment grounding conductor; how many homes have conduit
installed for branch circuits? The correct course of action would be
to install a GFCI receptacle and mark it "No Equipment Ground" or
install an equipment grounding conductor. This is beyond the scope of
an installer of PC's and you should have made that recomendation.

On Tue, 2 Sep 2008 03:59:02 +0200 (CEST), JJ wrote:
(chuckferguson) wrote in
:



-------------------------------------

Hi,
I install home computers, and recently I was in a beautiful old
house
to install a machine but found there were only two-prong ungrounded
outlets. I didn't know what else I could do, so I removed the
grounding prongs from a six-splitter and plugged that into the
wall. I
plugged the computer and the LCD display into the six-splitter. Can
someone tell me if this is dangerous and if so how dangerous?
Thanks very much.
chuck


##-----------------------------------------------##
Delivered via http://www.thestuccocompany.com/
Building Construction and Maintenance Forum
Web and RSS access to your favorite newsgroup -
alt.home.repair - 310791 messages and counting!
##-----------------------------------------------##


That wasn't smart; also really dangerous. Adapters. That's what
they're made for. Plug the surge strip into a properly grounded
adapter. Most surge strips have a light to tell u if it's grounded
anyway.

An adapter isn't going to provide a ground. All it will do is connect
the power strip's ground to the screw of the outlet which won't be
grounded.

On Mon, 1 Sep 2008 18:57:41 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

If a power wire inside the computer touches the (metal) case of the
computer, the case can become energized. And thus, a shock hazard to the
people. With a grounded system, the power goes through the ground wire back
to the earth. With the ground prong cut off, the power goes through the
person, electrocuting that person.

Dry skin is unlikely to conduct enough electricity to be dangerous (at
120V). Maybe that applies to the computer you keep by the side of your
bathtub.

On Tue, 02 Sep 2008 10:30:37 -0500, Gary H wrote:
On Mon, 1 Sep 2008 18:57:41 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

If a power wire inside the computer touches the (metal) case of the
computer, the case can become energized. And thus, a shock hazard to the
people. With a grounded system, the power goes through the ground wire back
to the earth. With the ground prong cut off, the power goes through the
person, electrocuting that person.

Dry skin is unlikely to conduct enough electricity to be dangerous (at
120V). Maybe that applies to the computer you keep by the side of your
bathtub.

Not only that, but power supplies don't connect the mains to the ground. The
chance of the ground being anything but high impedance is rather unlikely.

The ground is there for the unlikely chance that a broken wire inside the
computer could come in contact with the case and this is extremely rare.

Don't take the computer into the bathtub and there won't be a problem.

On Mon, 01 Sep 2008 20:52:58 -0700, Smitty Two
wrote:

In article ,
"Stormin Mormon" wrote:

If a power wire inside the computer touches the (metal) case of the
computer, the case can become energized. And thus, a shock hazard to the
people. With a grounded system, the power goes through the ground wire back
to the earth. With the ground prong cut off, the power goes through the
person, electrocuting that person.

Bah. Show me one news article from anywhere in the world at any time
since the advent of personal computers in which someone was
"electrocuted" -- the word means shocked to death

I don't think so, although that is common usage.

in the fashion you
describe.

OP, I wouldn't worry about it.

The word "electrocuted" seems to come from "executed".

In case you didn't know "execute" DOES NOT mean "kill". It means "make
happen". When someone is put to death, it's a death sentence that's
being executed, not the prisoner. Corruption occurs when people leave
out words without considering their meaning.

On Tue, 02 Sep 2008 10:35:52 -0500, Gary H
wrote:

On Mon, 01 Sep 2008 20:52:58 -0700, Smitty Two
wrote:

In article ,
"Stormin Mormon" wrote:

If a power wire inside the computer touches the (metal) case of the
computer, the case can become energized. And thus, a shock hazard to the
people. With a grounded system, the power goes through the ground wire back
to the earth. With the ground prong cut off, the power goes through the
person, electrocuting that person.

Bah. Show me one news article from anywhere in the world at any time
since the advent of personal computers in which someone was
"electrocuted" -- the word means shocked to death

I don't think so, although that is common usage.

in the fashion you
describe.

OP, I wouldn't worry about it.

The word "electrocuted" seems to come from "executed".

In case you didn't know "execute" DOES NOT mean "kill".

Yes it does.

It means dead, forever.

wrote in message
...
On Sep 1, 2:40 pm, (chuckferguson)
wrote:
-------------------------------------

Hi,
I install home computers, and recently I was in a beautiful old house to
install a machine but found there were only two-prong ungrounded outlets.
I didn't know what else I could do, so I removed the grounding prongs from
a six-splitter and plugged that into the wall. I plugged the computer and
the LCD display into the six-splitter. Can someone tell me if this is
dangerous and if so how dangerous?
Thanks very much.
chuck

##-----------------------------------------------##
Delivered via http://www.thestuccocompany.com/
Building Construction and Maintenance Forum
Web and RSS access to your favorite newsgroup -
alt.home.repair - 310791 messages and counting!
##-----------------------------------------------##

Installing a two prong to three prong adapter (or a "grounding"
adapter) is usually the same thing as cutting the ground prong off of
a cord; if an equipment grounding conductor was present then a three
prong receptacle would have been installed. I have never run across a
two prong receptacle installed on a branch circuit that had an
equipment grounding conducter present.
####

Simply not true. Many units (at least in NYC) built in the 60's had BX
wiring with two prong recepticles. A grounding adapter, while far from
perfect, would work in those cases.
--
Peace,
BobJ


####
For those that insist a conduit
acts as the equipment grounding conductor; how many homes have conduit
installed for branch circuits? The correct course of action would be
to install a GFCI receptacle and mark it "No Equipment Ground" or
install an equipment grounding conductor. This is beyond the scope of
an installer of PC's and you should have made that recomendation.

On Sep 1, 5:40*pm, (chuckferguson)
wrote:
-------------------------------------

Hi,
I install home computers, and recently I was in a beautiful old house to
install a machine but found there were only two-prong ungrounded outlets.
I didn't know what else I could do, so I removed the grounding prongs from
a six-splitter and plugged that into the wall. I plugged the computer and
the LCD display into the six-splitter. Can someone tell me if this is
dangerous and if so how dangerous?
Thanks very much.
chuck

##-----------------------------------------------##
Delivered via *http://www.thestuccocompany.com/
Building Construction and Maintenance Forum
Web and RSS access to your favorite newsgroup -
alt.home.repair - 310791 messages and counting!
##-----------------------------------------------##

Did anybody else notice the first line of this post?

"I install home computers"

For who? Who would send out a technician that knows so little about
the power/wiring requirements for the equipment he is charged with
installing?

I smell a troll.

On Tue, 02 Sep 2008 13:21:27 -0400, metspitzer
wrote:

[snip]


In case you didn't know "execute" DOES NOT mean "kill".

Yes it does.


How many computer programs have you killed? :-)

It means dead, forever.

"forever" is a meaningless concept to humans.

on 9/2/2008 1:21 PM metspitzer said the following:
On Tue, 02 Sep 2008 10:35:52 -0500, Gary H
wrote:


On Mon, 01 Sep 2008 20:52:58 -0700, Smitty Two
wrote:


In article ,
"Stormin Mormon" wrote:


If a power wire inside the computer touches the (metal) case of the
computer, the case can become energized. And thus, a shock hazard to the
people. With a grounded system, the power goes through the ground wire back
to the earth. With the ground prong cut off, the power goes through the
person, electrocuting that person.

Bah. Show me one news article from anywhere in the world at any time
since the advent of personal computers in which someone was
"electrocuted" -- the word means shocked to death

I don't think so, although that is common usage.


in the fashion you
describe.

OP, I wouldn't worry about it.

The word "electrocuted" seems to come from "executed".

In case you didn't know "execute" DOES NOT mean "kill".


Yes it does.

It means dead, forever.

And an 'executive' or 'executor' is someone who kills people?

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
in the original Orange County
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

Marilyn & Bob wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Sep 1, 2:40 pm, (chuckferguson)
wrote:
-------------------------------------

Hi,
I install home computers, and recently I was in a beautiful old house to
install a machine but found there were only two-prong ungrounded outlets.
I didn't know what else I could do, so I removed the grounding prongs from
a six-splitter and plugged that into the wall. I plugged the computer and
the LCD display into the six-splitter. Can someone tell me if this is
dangerous and if so how dangerous?
Thanks very much.
chuck

##-----------------------------------------------##
Delivered via http://www.thestuccocompany.com/
Building Construction and Maintenance Forum
Web and RSS access to your favorite newsgroup -
alt.home.repair - 310791 messages and counting!
##-----------------------------------------------##

Installing a two prong to three prong adapter (or a "grounding"
adapter) is usually the same thing as cutting the ground prong off of
a cord; if an equipment grounding conductor was present then a three
prong receptacle would have been installed. I have never run across a
two prong receptacle installed on a branch circuit that had an
equipment grounding conducter present.
####

Simply not true. Many units (at least in NYC) built in the 60's had BX
wiring with two prong recepticles. A grounding adapter, while far from
perfect, would work in those cases.

Same here in MI and in IN where I used to live- from late 50s to mid
60s, grounded romex and boxes with 2-hole outlets was quite common. Made
converting the 2-hole outlets in this place easy- just made sure the
copper wound around the romex under the clamp was shiny, the clamp was
snug, and ground the outlet to the box. Magic outlet meter is happy.
Yeah, I know current code regards that as borderline, but I wasn't about
to try and unwind that 45 year old copper to run it to the screw on the
outlet. It does get brittle. Putting the ground wire under the clamp was
SOP by all the electricians when I was growing up watching them. They
said it made for a less crowded box.

--
aem sends...

DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sep 1, 5:40 pm, (chuckferguson)
wrote:
-------------------------------------

Hi,
I install home computers, and recently I was in a beautiful old house to
install a machine but found there were only two-prong ungrounded outlets.
I didn't know what else I could do, so I removed the grounding prongs from
a six-splitter and plugged that into the wall. I plugged the computer and
the LCD display into the six-splitter. Can someone tell me if this is
dangerous and if so how dangerous?
Thanks very much.
chuck

##-----------------------------------------------##
Delivered via http://www.thestuccocompany.com/
Building Construction and Maintenance Forum
Web and RSS access to your favorite newsgroup -
alt.home.repair - 310791 messages and counting!
##-----------------------------------------------##

Did anybody else notice the first line of this post?

"I install home computers"

For who? Who would send out a technician that knows so little about
the power/wiring requirements for the equipment he is charged with
installing?

Best Buy (among others) would. They don't pay very well and get what
they pay for. My buddy's son worked for the local one when he graduated
from college while he was looking for a real job. The kid is really
sharp and went on to get a really good position and a reputable company.
He said they got minimal training at BB which mostly consisted of how to
push other stuff while they were doing an "expert" installation.


I smell a troll.

On Mon, 01 Sep 2008 21:39:24 -0400, LouB wrote:

Claude Hopper wrote:
chuckferguson wrote:

NEVER cut a ground prong! Just get the little gray adapters that convert
3 prong to 2 with a green wire that has a spade lug on it. Plug the
power strip into the adapter, connect the adapter green wire to the
middle screw on the wall plug. If it's grounded it will be grounded, if
it isn't it isn't. Not your problem. Plug the adapter into the 2 prong
outlet. Point out to the owners that this is not the best connection but
they should be used to it since they must have had to do this all over
the house. Check and see how they have their microwave plugged.


BEST reply!!

Lou

Yes. My thought exactly.


________________________
Whatever it takes.

On Mon, 01 Sep 2008 21:40:55 GMT,
(chuckferguson) wrote:

...I install home computers, and recently I was in a beautiful old house to
install a machine but found there were only two-prong ungrounded outlets.
I didn't know what else I could do, so I removed the grounding prongs from
a six-splitter and plugged that into the wall. I plugged the computer and
the LCD display into the six-splitter. Can someone tell me if this is
dangerous and if so how dangerous?...

Hell's bells! No offense, but I'm surprised you had to ask these
questions.

FYI, no surge suppressor or battery backup manufacturer will honor their
insurance policy, if the computer isn't properly connected to a properly
wired circuit.

I live in a one hundred year old house, which has only a couple of
properly wired circuits--and my computer gets one of them!

You asked, "...is this dangerous and if so how dangerous?" If I caught
you doing a stunt like you described (and I would catch you), it would
be quite dangerous.

DerbyDad03 suspects you of being a troll. I think he might be correct.



_________________________
Zildjian: world class cymbal of excellence.

On Thu, 04 Sep 2008 00:51:41 -0400, Michael A Ball wrote:
On Mon, 01 Sep 2008 21:39:24 -0400, LouB wrote:

Claude Hopper wrote:
chuckferguson wrote:

NEVER cut a ground prong! Just get the little gray adapters that convert
3 prong to 2 with a green wire that has a spade lug on it. Plug the
power strip into the adapter, connect the adapter green wire to the
middle screw on the wall plug. If it's grounded it will be grounded, if
it isn't it isn't. Not your problem. Plug the adapter into the 2 prong
outlet. Point out to the owners that this is not the best connection but
they should be used to it since they must have had to do this all over
the house. Check and see how they have their microwave plugged.


BEST reply!!

Lou

Yes. My thought exactly.

Idiot.

If the outlet hasn't a ground wire, connecting the equipment ground to the
outlet's center screw won't help one damn bit.

On Thu, 04 Sep 2008 00:38:10 -0500, AZ Nomad
wrote:

...
BEST reply!!

Lou

Yes. My thought exactly.

Idiot.

If the outlet hasn't a ground wire, connecting the equipment ground to the
outlet's center screw won't help one damn bit.

I didn't say the answer was flawless: merely the best-- to that point.

"Idiot"? LOL Well, I see how you recognized me so easily. Thanks for the
laugh.



_______________________
"Only two things are infinite, the Universe and human stupidity, and I'm
not sure about the former." --Albert Einstein

In article ,
Michael A. Ball wrote:

On Mon, 01 Sep 2008 21:40:55 GMT,
(chuckferguson) wrote:

...I install home computers, and recently I was in a beautiful old house to
install a machine but found there were only two-prong ungrounded outlets.
I didn't know what else I could do, so I removed the grounding prongs from
a six-splitter and plugged that into the wall. I plugged the computer and
the LCD display into the six-splitter. Can someone tell me if this is
dangerous and if so how dangerous?...

Hell's bells! No offense, but I'm surprised you had to ask these
questions.

FYI, no surge suppressor or battery backup manufacturer will honor their
insurance policy, if the computer isn't properly connected to a properly
wired circuit.

I live in a one hundred year old house, which has only a couple of
properly wired circuits--and my computer gets one of them!

You asked, "...is this dangerous and if so how dangerous?" If I caught
you doing a stunt like you described (and I would catch you), it would
be quite dangerous.

DerbyDad03 suspects you of being a troll. I think he might be correct.





I suspect you guys who think grounding is god's gift to mankind of being
trolls. Perhaps I missed the answer to my earlier query about what
exactly y'all think it is that makes an ungrounded computer "dangerous."

On Sep 3, 6:49*pm, George wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sep 1, 5:40 pm, (chuckferguson)
wrote:
-------------------------------------

Hi,
I install home computers, and recently I was in a beautiful old house to
install a machine but found there were only two-prong ungrounded outlets.
I didn't know what else I could do, so I removed the grounding prongs from
a six-splitter and plugged that into the wall. I plugged the computer and
the LCD display into the six-splitter. Can someone tell me if this is
dangerous and if so how dangerous?
Thanks very much.
chuck

##-----------------------------------------------##
Delivered via *http://www.thestuccocompany.com/
Building Construction and Maintenance Forum
Web and RSS access to your favorite newsgroup -
alt.home.repair - 310791 messages and counting!
##-----------------------------------------------##

Did anybody else notice the first line of this post?

"I install home computers"

For who? Who would send out a technician that knows so little about
the power/wiring requirements for the equipment he is charged with
installing?

Best Buy (among others) would. They don't pay very well and get what
they pay for. My buddy's son worked for the local one when he graduated
from college while he was looking for a real job. The kid is really
sharp and went on to get a really good position and a reputable company.
He said they got minimal training at BB which mostly consisted of how to
push other stuff while they were doing an "expert" installation.





I smell a troll.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Best Buy owns/uses GeekSquad.

I could be wrong, but I don't the Squaders are pulling out wire
cutters and cutting ground plugs off of power strips.

Let the GeekSquad horror stories commence.

On Thu, 04 Sep 2008 06:38:25 -0700, Smitty Two
wrote:

...I suspect you guys who think grounding is god's gift to mankind of being
trolls. Perhaps I missed the answer to my earlier query about what
exactly y'all think it is that makes an ungrounded computer "dangerous."

It isn't that the ungrounded computer is dangerous: it is the computer,
and peripherals, that are in danger.



_______________________________
"Some people learn something new
every day, others just get 24 hours older."

Michael A. Ball wrote:
On Thu, 04 Sep 2008 06:38:25 -0700, Smitty Two
wrote:

...I suspect you guys who think grounding is god's gift to mankind of being
trolls. Perhaps I missed the answer to my earlier query about what
exactly y'all think it is that makes an ungrounded computer "dangerous."

It isn't that the ungrounded computer is dangerous: it is the computer,
and peripherals, that are in danger.



_______________________________
"Some people learn something new
every day, others just get 24 hours older."
Hi,
Let me ask you one question. What about laptop, Blackberry, iPhone?
Are they grounded? How many computers have external peripherail devices?

In article ,
Michael A. Ball wrote:

On Thu, 04 Sep 2008 06:38:25 -0700, Smitty Two
wrote:

...I suspect you guys who think grounding is god's gift to mankind of being
trolls. Perhaps I missed the answer to my earlier query about what
exactly y'all think it is that makes an ungrounded computer "dangerous."

It isn't that the ungrounded computer is dangerous: it is the computer,
and peripherals, that are in danger.



Really? What are they in danger of? Incoming AC is transformed,
rectified, filtered, and regulated. How many line gremlins are going to
get through all that? The "surge suppressor" and "line conditioner"
shucksters are laughing their way to the bank with the protection racket
payouts of the ground-pin worshipping masses.

On Thu, 04 Sep 2008 06:38:25 -0700, Smitty Two
wrote:



I suspect you guys who think grounding is god's gift to mankind of being
trolls. Perhaps I missed the answer to my earlier query about what
exactly y'all think it is that makes an ungrounded computer "dangerous."

An ungrounded computer would be dangerous for the same reason an
ungrounded stove would be.

If there is a hot to case short, the computer would have 120V on the
case.

This could electrocute you, and you would be dead, forever.

On Thu, 04 Sep 2008 14:36:35 GMT, Tony Hwang wrote:

Michael A. Ball wrote:
On Thu, 04 Sep 2008 06:38:25 -0700, Smitty Two
wrote:

...I suspect you guys who think grounding is god's gift to mankind of being
trolls. Perhaps I missed the answer to my earlier query about what
exactly y'all think it is that makes an ungrounded computer "dangerous."

It isn't that the ungrounded computer is dangerous: it is the computer,
and peripherals, that are in danger.



_______________________________
"Some people learn something new
every day, others just get 24 hours older."
Hi,
Let me ask you one question. What about laptop, Blackberry, iPhone?
Are they grounded? How many computers have external peripherail devices?

They don't have to be. They don't operate on 120V.

In article ,
metspitzer wrote:

On Thu, 04 Sep 2008 06:38:25 -0700, Smitty Two
wrote:



I suspect you guys who think grounding is god's gift to mankind of being
trolls. Perhaps I missed the answer to my earlier query about what
exactly y'all think it is that makes an ungrounded computer "dangerous."

An ungrounded computer would be dangerous for the same reason an
ungrounded stove would be.

If there is a hot to case short, the computer would have 120V on the
case.

This could electrocute you, and you would be dead, forever.

OK, I'll humor you. Please open up your computer, and take a picture of
the 120VAC wire that could come loose and short to the case. That's
assuming the case is metal, of course, which it most likely is not.

In article ,
metspitzer wrote:

On Thu, 04 Sep 2008 14:36:35 GMT, Tony Hwang wrote:

Michael A. Ball wrote:
On Thu, 04 Sep 2008 06:38:25 -0700, Smitty Two
wrote:

...I suspect you guys who think grounding is god's gift to mankind of
being
trolls. Perhaps I missed the answer to my earlier query about what
exactly y'all think it is that makes an ungrounded computer "dangerous."

It isn't that the ungrounded computer is dangerous: it is the computer,
and peripherals, that are in danger.



_______________________________
"Some people learn something new
every day, others just get 24 hours older."
Hi,
Let me ask you one question. What about laptop, Blackberry, iPhone?
Are they grounded? How many computers have external peripherail devices?

They don't have to be. They don't operate on 120V.

Neither does a desktop. It operates on 5 and 12 VDC.

On Thu, 04 Sep 2008 10:41:37 -0700, Smitty Two
wrote:

In article ,
metspitzer wrote:

On Thu, 04 Sep 2008 06:38:25 -0700, Smitty Two
wrote:



I suspect you guys who think grounding is god's gift to mankind of being
trolls. Perhaps I missed the answer to my earlier query about what
exactly y'all think it is that makes an ungrounded computer "dangerous."

An ungrounded computer would be dangerous for the same reason an
ungrounded stove would be.

If there is a hot to case short, the computer would have 120V on the
case.

This could electrocute you, and you would be dead, forever.

OK, I'll humor you. Please open up your computer, and take a picture of
the 120VAC wire that could come loose and short to the case. That's
assuming the case is metal, of course, which it most likely is not.

You have to open the power supply. It is the wire attached to the
fuse block.

They are in every computer. If you don't know where they are, just
Google it.

On Sep 4, 1:41*pm, Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,





*metspitzer wrote:
On Thu, 04 Sep 2008 06:38:25 -0700, Smitty Two
wrote:

I suspect you guys who think grounding is god's gift to mankind of being
trolls. Perhaps I missed the answer to my earlier query about what
exactly y'all think it is that makes an ungrounded computer "dangerous.."

An ungrounded computer would be dangerous for the same reason an
ungrounded stove would be.

If there is a hot to case short, the computer would have 120V on the
case.

This could electrocute you, and you would be dead, forever. *

OK, I'll humor you. Please open up your computer, and take a picture of
the 120VAC wire that could come loose and short to the case. That's
assuming the case is metal, of course, which it most likely is not.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


That's assuming the case is metal, of course, which it most likely
is not

I may not be using the same brand of computer as you, but every
computer I've ever used or owned all have AC wires inside the power
supply which has a metal case which is screwed to a metal chassis
which is wrapped in a metal skin.

Could you be referring to the keyboard for your Web TV machine? I'm
pretty sure that's plastic.

In article
,
DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Sep 4, 1:41*pm, Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,





*metspitzer wrote:
On Thu, 04 Sep 2008 06:38:25 -0700, Smitty Two
wrote:

I suspect you guys who think grounding is god's gift to mankind of being
trolls. Perhaps I missed the answer to my earlier query about what
exactly y'all think it is that makes an ungrounded computer "dangerous."

An ungrounded computer would be dangerous for the same reason an
ungrounded stove would be.

If there is a hot to case short, the computer would have 120V on the
case.

This could electrocute you, and you would be dead, forever. *

OK, I'll humor you. Please open up your computer, and take a picture of
the 120VAC wire that could come loose and short to the case. That's
assuming the case is metal, of course, which it most likely is not.- Hide
quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


That's assuming the case is metal, of course, which it most likely
is not

I may not be using the same brand of computer as you, but every
computer I've ever used or owned all have AC wires inside the power
supply which has a metal case which is screwed to a metal chassis
which is wrapped in a metal skin.

Could you be referring to the keyboard for your Web TV machine? I'm
pretty sure that's plastic.

AC "wires" inside the power supply? If you're referring to a couple of
two inch long wires that connect the AC power jack to the circuit board,
fine. Otherwise, still waiting for a pic. Still wonder how a two inch
long wire is going to jump out and kill someone. I asked Chris to come
forward with a news account of that happening, anywhere at any time, and
I'm still waiting.

I don't know what percentage of computers have outer cases of plastic
versus metal, but a brief survey at work shows most of them are plastic,
and those cover a wide range of age and make. I don't care how much
metal is inside, if the outer case is plastic that's pretty much the
final word on shock hazard.

Props on the WebTV slur. Pretty original. You must've gone all the way
to Chapter Two of your little internet joke book for that. The subtle
irony of that having come from one of the crowd who thinks Google
invented usenet, didn't escape my keen observation.

On Fri, 05 Sep 2008 09:56:09 -0700, Smitty Two
wrote:

AC "wires" inside the power supply? If you're referring to a couple of
two inch long wires that connect the AC power jack to the circuit board,
fine. Otherwise, still waiting for a pic. Still wonder how a two inch
long wire is going to jump out and kill someone. I asked Chris to come
forward with a news account of that happening, anywhere at any time, and
I'm still waiting.

If one of those two wires come lose and goes to metal, it is pretty
easy to see.


I don't know what percentage of computers have outer cases of plastic
versus metal, but a brief survey at work shows most of them are plastic,
and those cover a wide range of age and make. I don't care how much
metal is inside, if the outer case is plastic that's pretty much the
final word on shock hazard.

My computer case is metal, and painted black. This paint lowers the
chance, even more, that the case would electrocute you, but grabbing
the thumb screws at the back of the computer could still kill you.

I don't know if it has ever happened, but that doesn't mean it can't.
With a proper ground, the chances are even lower. That is what the
NEC is shooting for.

On Sep 5, 12:56*pm, Smitty Two wrote:
In article
,





*DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sep 4, 1:41*pm, Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,

*metspitzer wrote:
On Thu, 04 Sep 2008 06:38:25 -0700, Smitty Two
wrote:

I suspect you guys who think grounding is god's gift to mankind of being
trolls. Perhaps I missed the answer to my earlier query about what
exactly y'all think it is that makes an ungrounded computer "dangerous."

An ungrounded computer would be dangerous for the same reason an
ungrounded stove would be.

If there is a hot to case short, the computer would have 120V on the
case.

This could electrocute you, and you would be dead, forever. *

OK, I'll humor you. Please open up your computer, and take a picture of
the 120VAC wire that could come loose and short to the case. That's
assuming the case is metal, of course, which it most likely is not.- Hide
quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That's assuming the case is metal, of course, which it most likely
is not

I may not be using the same brand of computer as you, but every
computer I've ever used or owned all have AC wires inside the power
supply which has a metal case which is screwed to a metal chassis
which is wrapped in a metal skin.

Could you be referring to the keyboard for your Web TV machine? I'm
pretty sure that's plastic.

AC "wires" inside the power supply? If you're referring to a couple of
two inch long wires that connect the AC power jack to the circuit board,
fine. Otherwise, still waiting for a pic. Still wonder how a two inch
long wire is going to jump out and kill someone. I asked Chris to come
forward with a news account of that happening, anywhere at any time, and
I'm still waiting.

I don't know what percentage of computers have outer cases of plastic
versus metal, but a brief survey at work shows most of them are plastic,
and those cover a wide range of age and make. I don't care how much
metal is inside, if the outer case is plastic that's pretty much the
final word on shock hazard.

Props on the WebTV slur. Pretty original. You must've gone all the way
to Chapter Two of your little internet joke book for that. The subtle
irony of that having come from one of the crowd who thinks Google
invented usenet, didn't escape my keen observation.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I don't know what percentage of computers have outer cases of
plastic versus metal...

Yet you're willing to say "That's assuming the case is metal, of
course, ** which it most likely is not.**?

My similiar survey show the exact opposite. In fact there's not a
plastic case in sight, at work or at home. Unless someone comes
forward with some documented percentages, it's nothing more than an
assumption that any given computer case "most likely is not" metal.

one of the crowd who thinks Google invented usenet

There ya go, making assumptions again. Just like it's a stretch to
assume that any given computer case "is most likely not" metal, it's
quite a stretch from "he uses Google groups" to "he thinks Google
invented usenet".

It's just possible that there are valid reasons for using Google-
groups . Perhaps one's corporate-installed image does not allow for
the installation or use of newsreader applications or personal email
accounts. If one didn't use Google groups in those situations, one
couldn't break up the work day by engaging in such witty banter with
other members of this group.

...didn't escape my keen observation

or your ability to jump to conclusions.

On Sep 1, 5:40*pm, (chuckferguson)
wrote:
-------------------------------------

Hi,
I install home computers, and recently I was in a beautiful old house to
install a machine but found there were only two-prong ungrounded outlets.


Two prongs does not always mean no ground. In many old homes the
outlets are connected via metal conduit which provides a ground.
Without checking you can not be sure it is grounded even if it has a
metal conduit.

Since there are so many variations around and in older homes there
often are non-code wiring, I suggest that to be safe, either assume
there is no ground, or have it professionally checked.

DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sep 5, 12:56 pm, Smitty Two wrote:
In article
,


(snip)
It's just possible that there are valid reasons for using Google-
groups . Perhaps one's corporate-installed image does not allow for
the installation or use of newsreader applications or personal email
accounts. If one didn't use Google groups in those situations, one
couldn't break up the work day by engaging in such witty banter with
other members of this group.
That's why my office blocks Google Groups. Not Google itself- the place
would grind to a halt without it. Just the groups. The only way I can
bump any personal or fun stuff during the day, is to detach from the
LAN, fire up the wireless, and get out through the non-trusted wireless
nodes they keep running in the conference rooms so visitors can do their
demos. They block anything that looks like personal mail, news feeds,
chat sites, hobby sites, forums, etc.

Hell, I can't even hit my work email from home any more, unless I take
the company machine home and VPN in. They even turned off the web mail
interface.

--
aem sends...