I brew a pot of coffee every morning.
(electric) Drip coffee makers last about 6-12 months,
before something goes bad.
Often I can take 'em apart and find the bad bit.
This limps them along for another 6-12 months.
(I wasn't able to find the bad bit in the latest Mr coffee that
failed... grumble. (And the f'ing security bits.))
A new one is ~$30-40. Do I just keep throwing them
out? Another solution? I'll use a hand poured drip tomorrow, heat
water on stove pour through, let drip, add more hot water.
But I really like the convenience of pushing a button,
going off for the morning ablution, and coming back to a cuppa.
(Is cuppa only for a cup of tea.. in Oz?)

George H.

On 9/5/17 8:54 am, wrote:
I brew a pot of coffee every morning.
(electric) Drip coffee makers last about 6-12 months,
before something goes bad.
Often I can take 'em apart and find the bad bit.
This limps them along for another 6-12 months.
(I wasn't able to find the bad bit in the latest Mr coffee that
failed... grumble. (And the f'ing security bits.))
A new one is ~$30-40. Do I just keep throwing them
out? Another solution? I'll use a hand poured drip tomorrow, heat
water on stove pour through, let drip, add more hot water.
But I really like the convenience of pushing a button,
going off for the morning ablution, and coming back to a cuppa.
(Is cuppa only for a cup of tea.. in Oz?)

George H.


Theres cold brew but it's a lot more messing about.

On 5/8/2017 9:10 PM, Rheilly Phoull wrote:
On 9/5/17 8:54 am, wrote:
I brew a pot of coffee every morning.
(electric) Drip coffee makers last about 6-12 months,
before something goes bad.
Often I can take 'em apart and find the bad bit.
This limps them along for another 6-12 months.
(I wasn't able to find the bad bit in the latest Mr coffee that
failed... grumble. (And the f'ing security bits.))
A new one is ~$30-40. Do I just keep throwing them
out? Another solution? I'll use a hand poured drip tomorrow, heat
water on stove pour through, let drip, add more hot water.
But I really like the convenience of pushing a button,
going off for the morning ablution, and coming back to a cuppa.
(Is cuppa only for a cup of tea.. in Oz?)

George H.


Theres cold brew but it's a lot more messing about.

Freaking delicious though.

--

Rick C

On 5/8/2017 8:54 PM, wrote:
I brew a pot of coffee every morning.
(electric) Drip coffee makers last about 6-12 months,
before something goes bad.
Often I can take 'em apart and find the bad bit.
This limps them along for another 6-12 months.
(I wasn't able to find the bad bit in the latest Mr coffee that
failed... grumble. (And the f'ing security bits.))
A new one is ~$30-40. Do I just keep throwing them
out? Another solution? I'll use a hand poured drip tomorrow, heat
water on stove pour through, let drip, add more hot water.
But I really like the convenience of pushing a button,
going off for the morning ablution, and coming back to a cuppa.
(Is cuppa only for a cup of tea.. in Oz?)

Isn't the failure usually the thermal fuse?

A friend has a $600 coffee maker, more like an expresso machine really
and it might be a lot more than $600, I don't recall, a fancy German
unit. It crapped out and they found a video showing the likely culprit
to be a power transistor. They got me in the loop and I confirmed that
was the likely failure and ordered a new part and put it in when it
came. Worked like a charm! It was quite a piece of work and made the
standard drip brewers look like total junk which is what they are.

I use the drip and don't mind waiting the 90 seconds it takes to heat
the water on the stove. A friend has a small water heater that works
just as fast as the stove if not faster and doesn't lose as much heat to
the room while doing it. I have no idea where she found it, maybe at an
Asian food store, the construction reminds me of a small rice maker,
which I want to buy. I guess I need to check ebay.

--

Rick C

On 5/8/2017 5:54 PM, wrote:
I brew a pot of coffee every morning.
(electric) Drip coffee makers last about 6-12 months,
before something goes bad.
Often I can take 'em apart and find the bad bit.
This limps them along for another 6-12 months.
(I wasn't able to find the bad bit in the latest Mr coffee that
failed... grumble. (And the f'ing security bits.))
A new one is ~$30-40. Do I just keep throwing them
out? Another solution? I'll use a hand poured drip tomorrow, heat
water on stove pour through, let drip, add more hot water.
But I really like the convenience of pushing a button,
going off for the morning ablution, and coming back to a cuppa.
(Is cuppa only for a cup of tea.. in Oz?)

George H.

You can make the situation 3-4 times better by buying the cheap
coffee makers when they are on sale for $9.99. I've never
had one fail. One had the on/off switch right on the front
begging for you to spill coffee on it. I taped a piece of
plastic over that to protect it.

An electric kettle to boil water and a French Press makes
pretty good coffee, but it's a PITA to use. Funnel with
paper filter is easier to toss. I made about a gallon
at a session and stuck it in the fridge. Obviously,
I'm not a connoisseur.

My latest venture is into Keurig Gen 1.
You can find them for cheap to free at garage sales and
thrift stores. They're broke, no matter what they say.
Buy two.
Take the good solenoid from one and replace the always
bad solenoid in the other one. Put a switch on the plug,
cuz that solenoid is always engaged, even when you think
you turned the power off. And it sits right next to the
water heater.
Use the DIY K-cups. No sending plastic to the landfill
and the cup of coffee costs about 10% of what you'd pay
for the real thing. But it's still a PITA to empty/refill
the cups.
Keep a few of the real K-cups on hand so you can impress
visitors with your extravagance and wanton disregard for the
environment. ;-)

wrote:
I brew a pot of coffee every morning.
(electric) Drip coffee makers last about 6-12 months,
before something goes bad.
Often I can take 'em apart and find the bad bit.
This limps them along for another 6-12 months.
(I wasn't able to find the bad bit in the latest Mr coffee that
failed... grumble. (And the f'ing security bits.))
A new one is ~$30-40. Do I just keep throwing them

I dunno which one you are using but around here, the basic "just a switch"
Mr.Coffee 12 cup is only around $15 not including tax.

I've never had the base unit go bad, we're on our 3rd one in 15 years and
they are only replaced when we break the glass pot. Sounds stupid (and it
is) but they (Target) wants $14.99 for the replacement pot alone and a penny
less ($14.98) for the whole thing. So I have a couple spare base units under
the counter.

Like you, it's in use at least once a day.

It just dawned on me, what we do that is probably different is we don't
leave it running after the coffee is brewed. We always use a decanter,
something like this:

http://www.target.com/p/copco-carafe...l/-/A-16547936

and right after it's done brewing, pour the pot into it and shut off the
base unit. So the base just brews and we don't use it to keep the coffee
warmed. I suppose if the base is left on for hours at a time it'll shorten
the life span quite a bit.

So I guess if you picked up a decanter and get into the habit of using it,
the Mr.Coffee will probably outlive you.

-bruce

On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 9:44:53 PM UTC-4, rickman wrote:
On 5/8/2017 8:54 PM, wrote:
I brew a pot of coffee every morning.
(electric) Drip coffee makers last about 6-12 months,
before something goes bad.
Often I can take 'em apart and find the bad bit.
This limps them along for another 6-12 months.
(I wasn't able to find the bad bit in the latest Mr coffee that
failed... grumble. (And the f'ing security bits.))
A new one is ~$30-40. Do I just keep throwing them
out? Another solution? I'll use a hand poured drip tomorrow, heat
water on stove pour through, let drip, add more hot water.
But I really like the convenience of pushing a button,
going off for the morning ablution, and coming back to a cuppa.
(Is cuppa only for a cup of tea.. in Oz?)

Isn't the failure usually the thermal fuse?

Sometimes yeah... I've 'fixed' maybe 3 of these now.
This time not. Last night I was thinking it could be something
in the micro processor, But I couldn't (didn't work very long)
get into it. Hmm maybe I can ditch the uP and just put voltages
on the wires to turn the relays on and off.. there's ~6-8 wires coming
from the uP area.

George H.

A friend has a $600 coffee maker, more like an expresso machine really
and it might be a lot more than $600, I don't recall, a fancy German
unit. It crapped out and they found a video showing the likely culprit
to be a power transistor. They got me in the loop and I confirmed that
was the likely failure and ordered a new part and put it in when it
came. Worked like a charm! It was quite a piece of work and made the
standard drip brewers look like total junk which is what they are.

I use the drip and don't mind waiting the 90 seconds it takes to heat
the water on the stove. A friend has a small water heater that works
just as fast as the stove if not faster and doesn't lose as much heat to
the room while doing it. I have no idea where she found it, maybe at an
Asian food store, the construction reminds me of a small rice maker,
which I want to buy. I guess I need to check ebay.

--

Rick C

On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 1:18:19 AM UTC-4, mike wrote:
On 5/8/2017 5:54 PM, wrote:
I brew a pot of coffee every morning.
(electric) Drip coffee makers last about 6-12 months,
before something goes bad.
Often I can take 'em apart and find the bad bit.
This limps them along for another 6-12 months.
(I wasn't able to find the bad bit in the latest Mr coffee that
failed... grumble. (And the f'ing security bits.))
A new one is ~$30-40. Do I just keep throwing them
out? Another solution? I'll use a hand poured drip tomorrow, heat
water on stove pour through, let drip, add more hot water.
But I really like the convenience of pushing a button,
going off for the morning ablution, and coming back to a cuppa.
(Is cuppa only for a cup of tea.. in Oz?)

George H.

You can make the situation 3-4 times better by buying the cheap
coffee makers when they are on sale for $9.99. I've never
had one fail. One had the on/off switch right on the front
begging for you to spill coffee on it. I taped a piece of
plastic over that to protect it.
A switch I can fix. All the ones I see around here (amazon)
have timer's and other bells and whistles I don't need (or want.)

I was thinking I might find an old used simple coffee maker on ebay.

My mother in law has an old drip maker that must be ~10-20 years old.


An electric kettle to boil water and a French Press makes
pretty good coffee, but it's a PITA to use. Funnel with
paper filter is easier to toss. I made about a gallon
at a session and stuck it in the fridge. Obviously,
I'm not a connoisseur.

My latest venture is into Keurig Gen 1.
You can find them for cheap to free at garage sales and
thrift stores. They're broke, no matter what they say.
Buy two.
Take the good solenoid from one and replace the always
bad solenoid in the other one. Put a switch on the plug,
cuz that solenoid is always engaged, even when you think
you turned the power off. And it sits right next to the
water heater.
Use the DIY K-cups. No sending plastic to the landfill
and the cup of coffee costs about 10% of what you'd pay
for the real thing. But it's still a PITA to empty/refill
the cups.
Keep a few of the real K-cups on hand so you can impress
visitors with your extravagance and wanton disregard for the
environment. ;-)

No Kerig! I know they are all the rage, but I like to grind my own
beans and then make one big pot. (I'm an old fart and I don't want
change. :^)

And what's the average lifetime of a Kerig?

George H.

On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 5:47:39 AM UTC-4, Bruce Esquibel wrote:
wrote:
I brew a pot of coffee every morning.
(electric) Drip coffee makers last about 6-12 months,
before something goes bad.
Often I can take 'em apart and find the bad bit.
This limps them along for another 6-12 months.
(I wasn't able to find the bad bit in the latest Mr coffee that
failed... grumble. (And the f'ing security bits.))
A new one is ~$30-40. Do I just keep throwing them

I dunno which one you are using but around here, the basic "just a switch"
Mr.Coffee 12 cup is only around $15 not including tax.

I've never had the base unit go bad, we're on our 3rd one in 15 years and
they are only replaced when we break the glass pot. Sounds stupid (and it
is) but they (Target) wants $14.99 for the replacement pot alone and a penny
less ($14.98) for the whole thing. So I have a couple spare base units under
the counter.

Like you, it's in use at least once a day.

It just dawned on me, what we do that is probably different is we don't
leave it running after the coffee is brewed. We always use a decanter,
something like this:

http://www.target.com/p/copco-carafe...l/-/A-16547936

and right after it's done brewing, pour the pot into it and shut off the
base unit. So the base just brews and we don't use it to keep the coffee
warmed. I suppose if the base is left on for hours at a time it'll shorten
the life span quite a bit.
Yeah that might be part of it. I leave to warmer on and they now have
timers to turn it off after 2hrs or something.

I've also lost a number of glass carafes.. I'm very cautious with the
carafe. I wash and dry it and put it right back into the machine.
(most breakage seems to happen when the pot is left next to or in the
sink and something else bumps it. A stainless steel pot is one answer.

So I guess if you picked up a decanter and get into the habit of using it,
the Mr.Coffee will probably outlive you.

Thanks Bruce,
George H.

-bruce

On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 5:47:39 AM UTC-4, Bruce Esquibel wrote:


It just dawned on me, what we do that is probably different is we don't
leave it running after the coffee is brewed. We always use a decanter,
..... and right after it's done brewing, pour the pot into it and shut off the
base unit. So the base just brews and we don't use it to keep the coffee
warmed. I suppose if the base is left on for hours at a time it'll shorten
the life span quite a bit.

I've always said that if you want to make Starbucks coffee at home, brew a weak pot of coffee and let it sit on the heat for 8 hours. Weak, burnt, and bitter coffee for a lot less than Starbucks charges.

We do the same. As soon as the brew cycle is finished we get the pot off the built in hot plate and poor what's left (after serving our first two cups) into an insulated carafe.

I was fortunate to find a vintage Thermos Coffee Butler (made in W. Germany) on ebay for $15 delivered in never used condition to replace the one we had that suffered an internal glass breakage. The generic one that we had did not keep anything hot for more than an hour. The vintage Coffee Butler will keep hot coffee HOT for 8 hours at least without imparting that burnt and bitter taste that keeping direct heat on it causes.

On 5/8/2017 7:54 PM, wrote:
I brew a pot of coffee every morning.
(electric) Drip coffee makers last about 6-12 months,
before something goes bad.

My parents bought one of these in the '50s.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/162165262386
I still have it, it still works and I've never had to
repair it.


--
Jeff-1.0
wa6fwi
http://www.foxsmercantile.com

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

In article ,
Bruce Esquibel wrote:

I dunno which one you are using but around here, the basic "just a switch"
Mr.Coffee 12 cup is only around $15 not including tax.

At the local Walmart they're around $20.

A couple years ago, my new one stopped working. It seems that something
sticky found its way into the water reservoir and gummed-up a simple
ball valve in a rubber hose. That was easy to clean once I figured it
out.

Recently the light burned out in the on/off switch. Mr. Coffee does not
sell that switch, so you have to go looking for a replacement. I found
an NTE 54-525 at Newark Electronics for less than $2, but they wanted
$10 for shipping! I ended up buying several items to spread out the
cost of shipping. Gone are the days when you could buy such stuff in a
local store.

Fred

On 5/9/2017 10:49 AM, wrote:
On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 9:44:53 PM UTC-4, rickman wrote:
On 5/8/2017 8:54 PM, wrote:
I brew a pot of coffee every morning.
(electric) Drip coffee makers last about 6-12 months,
before something goes bad.
Often I can take 'em apart and find the bad bit.
This limps them along for another 6-12 months.
(I wasn't able to find the bad bit in the latest Mr coffee that
failed... grumble. (And the f'ing security bits.))
A new one is ~$30-40. Do I just keep throwing them
out? Another solution? I'll use a hand poured drip tomorrow, heat
water on stove pour through, let drip, add more hot water.
But I really like the convenience of pushing a button,
going off for the morning ablution, and coming back to a cuppa.
(Is cuppa only for a cup of tea.. in Oz?)

Isn't the failure usually the thermal fuse?

Sometimes yeah... I've 'fixed' maybe 3 of these now.
This time not. Last night I was thinking it could be something
in the micro processor, But I couldn't (didn't work very long)
get into it. Hmm maybe I can ditch the uP and just put voltages
on the wires to turn the relays on and off.. there's ~6-8 wires coming
from the uP area.

What is most likely bad? Switches or connectors. I don't think I would
bother trying to fix the MCU. If you are convinced it's not a fuse or
contact, I would suggest buying a new one this time. These things can
start house fires.

Have you considered a French press? I guess you still have to boil the
water.

Maybe you should complain to the coffee machine maker? I had a shower
head from Water Pic once and the collar broke after a couple years. I
wrote them complaining about the collar being made of plastic and they
sent me a metal one. Maybe Mr. Coffee makes a decent unit that won't go
bad a month after the warranty is up.

--

Rick C

On 5/9/2017 1:16 AM, mike wrote:

An electric kettle to boil water and a French Press makes
pretty good coffee, but it's a PITA to use. Funnel with
paper filter is easier to toss. I made about a gallon
at a session and stuck it in the fridge. Obviously,
I'm not a connoisseur.

Brewed coffee keeps perfectly fine in the fridge. But tossing all those
coffee grounds is such a waste. They are excellent for compost and
vermiculture. My roommate would have a cup every day and the worms love
both the filter and the grounds. But he is living with his girlfriend
and the worms are suffering caffeine withdrawal.


My latest venture is into Keurig Gen 1.
You can find them for cheap to free at garage sales and
thrift stores. They're broke, no matter what they say.
Buy two.
Take the good solenoid from one and replace the always
bad solenoid in the other one. Put a switch on the plug,
cuz that solenoid is always engaged, even when you think
you turned the power off. And it sits right next to the
water heater.
Use the DIY K-cups. No sending plastic to the landfill
and the cup of coffee costs about 10% of what you'd pay
for the real thing. But it's still a PITA to empty/refill
the cups.
Keep a few of the real K-cups on hand so you can impress
visitors with your extravagance and wanton disregard for the
environment. ;-)

Indeed!

--

Rick C

On 5/9/2017 7:54 AM, wrote:


And what's the average lifetime of a Kerig?

George H.

I'm guessing less than two years based on what
I'm seeing at garage sales.
That solenoid runs very hot 24/7.
The plastic valve disintegrates.
If you plug it in for 5 minutes a few times a day,
it should last forever. At least, that's what I'm
hoping for.
The real K-cup coffee does taste better than the refillable
ones. I've done a lot of experiments to try to improve that,
but the only ones that improved the situation used proprietary
filters that cost about as much as the coffee you're brewing.

The drip pots I've used had nothing but a switch and a heating
element (plus the safety thermal cutout). Not much to go wrong.
I always turned them off immediately and reheated the contents
in the microwave a cup at a time as needed.

I still like the coffee made in the French Press better.
Made it once a week and put a gallon of it in the fridge.
But it takes half an hour to run several cycles thru the press
and clean up.

This thread made me realize that the only reason I use the Keurig
is my emotional investment in fixing it and all the little
DIY K-cup versions that I collected. And the coffee tastes
worse than the alternatives.

Where did I put that French Press???

On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 7:59:36 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 5:47:39 AM UTC-4, Bruce Esquibel wrote:
wrote:
I brew a pot of coffee every morning.
(electric) Drip coffee makers last about 6-12 months,
before something goes bad.


It just dawned on me, what we do that is probably different is we don't
leave it running after the coffee is brewed. We always use a decanter,

Yeah that might be part of it. I leave to warmer on and they now have
timers to turn it off after 2hrs or something.

The 'gold cup' SCAA coffee standard is 45 minutes. A local restaurant
a few years ago had timers and signs, and always had great coffee,
presumably partly because they followed that rule. There are brewers
that don't have a warmer at all, just brew directly into a Dewar
flask. I'm sold on that. Like this:

https://www.amazon.com/Mr-Coffee-Optimal-Thermal-Stainless/dp/B010SN80UK

But if you really want good coffee... read this

http://gizmodo.com/5642561/seeking-mojo-chasing-the-perfect-cup-of-coffee-through-science

On 05/08/2017 09:10 PM, Rheilly Phoull wrote:
On 9/5/17 8:54 am, wrote:
I brew a pot of coffee every morning.
(electric) Drip coffee makers last about 6-12 months,
before something goes bad.
Often I can take 'em apart and find the bad bit.
This limps them along for another 6-12 months.
(I wasn't able to find the bad bit in the latest Mr coffee that
failed... grumble. (And the f'ing security bits.))
A new one is ~$30-40. Do I just keep throwing them
out? Another solution? I'll use a hand poured drip tomorrow, heat
water on stove pour through, let drip, add more hot water.
But I really like the convenience of pushing a button,
going off for the morning ablution, and coming back to a cuppa.
(Is cuppa only for a cup of tea.. in Oz?)

George H.


Theres cold brew but it's a lot more messing about.

I have a couple of Gevalia-branded ones that have lasted for years and
years. Ebay is your friend.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 8:18:11 PM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote:
On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 7:59:36 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 5:47:39 AM UTC-4, Bruce Esquibel wrote:
wrote:
I brew a pot of coffee every morning.
(electric) Drip coffee makers last about 6-12 months,
before something goes bad.


It just dawned on me, what we do that is probably different is we don't
leave it running after the coffee is brewed. We always use a decanter,

Yeah that might be part of it. I leave to warmer on and they now have
timers to turn it off after 2hrs or something.

The 'gold cup' SCAA coffee standard is 45 minutes. A local restaurant
a few years ago had timers and signs, and always had great coffee,
presumably partly because they followed that rule.

Right during the week it's only on for ~10-15 minutes.
During the weekend it may be longer, but as you say the
coffee slowly goes from coffee to Java to Joe. (my terms).
You can stand the spoon up in Joe. :^)

George H.
There are brewers
that don't have a warmer at all, just brew directly into a Dewar
flask. I'm sold on that. Like this:

https://www.amazon.com/Mr-Coffee-Optimal-Thermal-Stainless/dp/B010SN80UK

But if you really want good coffee... read this

http://gizmodo.com/5642561/seeking-mojo-chasing-the-perfect-cup-of-coffee-through-science

On 5/10/2017 11:03 AM, Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 05/08/2017 09:10 PM, Rheilly Phoull wrote:
On 9/5/17 8:54 am, wrote:
I brew a pot of coffee every morning.
(electric) Drip coffee makers last about 6-12 months,
before something goes bad.
Often I can take 'em apart and find the bad bit.
This limps them along for another 6-12 months.
(I wasn't able to find the bad bit in the latest Mr coffee that
failed... grumble. (And the f'ing security bits.))
A new one is ~$30-40. Do I just keep throwing them
out? Another solution? I'll use a hand poured drip tomorrow, heat
water on stove pour through, let drip, add more hot water.
But I really like the convenience of pushing a button,
going off for the morning ablution, and coming back to a cuppa.
(Is cuppa only for a cup of tea.. in Oz?)

George H.


Theres cold brew but it's a lot more messing about.

I have a couple of Gevalia-branded ones that have lasted for years and
years. Ebay is your friend.

I took a look and there are a number of different Gevalia models.

In fact, it is amazing the proliferation of coffee makers. There may be
more types of coffee makers than there are types of coffee!

--

Rick C

On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 8:18:11 PM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote:
On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 7:59:36 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 5:47:39 AM UTC-4, Bruce Esquibel wrote:
wrote:
I brew a pot of coffee every morning.
(electric) Drip coffee makers last about 6-12 months,
before something goes bad.


It just dawned on me, what we do that is probably different is we don't
leave it running after the coffee is brewed. We always use a decanter,

Yeah that might be part of it. I leave to warmer on and they now have
timers to turn it off after 2hrs or something.

The 'gold cup' SCAA coffee standard is 45 minutes. A local restaurant
a few years ago had timers and signs, and always had great coffee,
presumably partly because they followed that rule.

With nothing except my own palate to go on, I'd say that 45 minutes is three times to long. 15 minutes is the absolute maximum coffee can stay on direct heat in my opinion. Decanted into a prewarmed insulated carafe, coffee will still be quite potable for many hours with no loss of flavor or gain of bitterness IMO.

My wife and I both drink coffee black, which is why I believe we're particularly sensitive to overly heated coffee.

BTW, the best coffee I've ever had is coffee that's reconstituted from a cold brew concentrate in a coffee machine. I've had this several times in several fine restaurants, and it's amazing - enough so that the first time I had it I had to corner the manager and ask how they "brewed" it. Strong and complex flavors without a hint of bitterness or any defects such as aftertaste. Why this hasn't become a hit in the consumer end is beyond me.

BEST COFFEE EVER

The absolute WORST cup of coffee I've ever had was an "in
flight" cup given to me by the flight engineer while I
was sitting in a jump seat behind the pilot on a Flying
Tigers freight run from Los Angeles to Orlando around 1985.
I swear they had to have made it with used hydraulic oil.


--
Jeff-1.0
wa6fwi
http://www.foxsmercantile.com

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

On Wednesday, May 10, 2017 at 1:43:07 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 8:18:11 PM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote:
On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 7:59:36 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 5:47:39 AM UTC-4, Bruce Esquibel wrote:
wrote:
I brew a pot of coffee every morning.
(electric) Drip coffee makers last about 6-12 months,
before something goes bad.


It just dawned on me, what we do that is probably different is we don't
leave it running after the coffee is brewed. We always use a decanter,

Yeah that might be part of it. I leave to warmer on and they now have
timers to turn it off after 2hrs or something.

The 'gold cup' SCAA coffee standard is 45 minutes. A local restaurant
a few years ago had timers and signs, and always had great coffee,
presumably partly because they followed that rule.

With nothing except my own palate to go on, I'd say that 45 minutes is three times to long. 15 minutes is the absolute maximum coffee can stay on direct heat in my opinion. Decanted into a prewarmed insulated carafe, coffee will still be quite potable for many hours with no loss of flavor or gain of bitterness IMO.

My wife and I both drink coffee black, which is why I believe we're particularly sensitive to overly heated coffee.

BTW, the best coffee I've ever had is coffee that's reconstituted from a cold brew concentrate in a coffee machine. I've had this several times in several fine restaurants, and it's amazing - enough so that the first time I had it I had to corner the manager and ask how they "brewed" it. Strong and complex flavors without a hint of bitterness or any defects such as aftertaste. Why this hasn't become a hit in the consumer end is beyond me.

BEST COFFEE EVER

So it's warmed up after cold brewing? I could handle that, make a big pot
and leave it in the frig for days. (As is I often dump 1/3 of the pot down
the sink.) I'll go read about cold brewing.

George H.

On 5/12/2017 1:07 PM, wrote:
On Wednesday, May 10, 2017 at 1:43:07 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 8:18:11 PM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote:
On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 7:59:36 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 5:47:39 AM UTC-4, Bruce Esquibel wrote:
wrote:
I brew a pot of coffee every morning.
(electric) Drip coffee makers last about 6-12 months,
before something goes bad.


It just dawned on me, what we do that is probably different is we don't
leave it running after the coffee is brewed. We always use a decanter,

Yeah that might be part of it. I leave to warmer on and they now have
timers to turn it off after 2hrs or something.

The 'gold cup' SCAA coffee standard is 45 minutes. A local restaurant
a few years ago had timers and signs, and always had great coffee,
presumably partly because they followed that rule.

With nothing except my own palate to go on, I'd say that 45 minutes is three times to long. 15 minutes is the absolute maximum coffee can stay on direct heat in my opinion. Decanted into a prewarmed insulated carafe, coffee will still be quite potable for many hours with no loss of flavor or gain of bitterness IMO.

My wife and I both drink coffee black, which is why I believe we're particularly sensitive to overly heated coffee.

BTW, the best coffee I've ever had is coffee that's reconstituted from a cold brew concentrate in a coffee machine. I've had this several times in several fine restaurants, and it's amazing - enough so that the first time I had it I had to corner the manager and ask how they "brewed" it. Strong and complex flavors without a hint of bitterness or any defects such as aftertaste. Why this hasn't become a hit in the consumer end is beyond me.

BEST COFFEE EVER

So it's warmed up after cold brewing? I could handle that, make a big pot
and leave it in the frig for days. (As is I often dump 1/3 of the pot down
the sink.) I'll go read about cold brewing.

You can chill hot brewed coffee too. What kills it is sitting on the
heat. Just turn off the burner once it is brewed and warm a cup at a
time in the microwave. It's not perfectly like fresh brewed, but it
doesn't get ruined.

Cold brewing is a whole different thing that produces much better coffee
to start with. I've never seen a way to do it that produces as much
coffee from the same amount of beans though. I remember a college
roommate who would put a percolator on the stove boiling furiously and
take a shower. The whole house would reek of the smell of burnt coffee.
He was using it solely for the drug content without regard to taste.

--

Rick C

On Friday, May 12, 2017 at 1:07:54 PM UTC-4, wrote:

The 'gold cup' SCAA coffee standard is 45 minutes. A local restaurant
a few years ago had timers and signs, and always had great coffee,
presumably partly because they followed that rule.

With nothing except my own palate to go on, I'd say that 45 minutes is three times to long. 15 minutes is the absolute maximum coffee can stay on direct heat in my opinion. Decanted into a prewarmed insulated carafe, coffee will still be quite potable for many hours with no loss of flavor or gain of bitterness IMO.

My wife and I both drink coffee black, which is why I believe we're particularly sensitive to overly heated coffee.

BTW, the best coffee I've ever had is coffee that's reconstituted from a cold brew concentrate in a coffee machine. I've had this several times in several fine restaurants, and it's amazing - enough so that the first time I had it I had to corner the manager and ask how they "brewed" it. Strong and complex flavors without a hint of bitterness or any defects such as aftertaste. Why this hasn't become a hit in the consumer end is beyond me.

BEST COFFEE EVER

So it's warmed up after cold brewing? I could handle that, make a big pot
and leave it in the frig for days. (As is I often dump 1/3 of the pot down
the sink.) I'll go read about cold brewing.

George H.

The way it was explained to me is that the machine was analogous to getting Coke from a fountain dispenser. The coffee machine was preloaded with the concentrated mix, and when the button was pushed, the machine would mix the concentrate with boiling water and dispense it into the cup. Sort of like a Keurig in operation but with no disposable cups.

Never had a cup of coffee so tasty and smooth.

In article ,
wrote:

So it's warmed up after cold brewing? I could handle that, make a big pot
and leave it in the frig for days. (As is I often dump 1/3 of the pot down
the sink.) I'll go read about cold brewing.

You make up the cold-brew in concentrated form... steep the ground
beans in cold water for a while, then filter. You can store the
filtered concentrate in the 'fridge for quite a while in a sealed
container. It might even freeze OK - I'm not sure.

To consume it, you dilute 1 part of the concentrate with several parts
of hot water. Balance the ratio, and the temperature to which you
pre-heat the hot water, to get the strength and temperature that you
prefer.

I don't think there's any need to microwave, stove-heat, or otherwise
warm the concentrate at all (and risk scorching it).

On Friday, May 12, 2017 at 2:08:59 PM UTC-4, rickman wrote:
Cold brewing is a whole different thing that produces much better coffee
to start with. I've never seen a way to do it that produces as much
coffee from the same amount of beans though.

I'd never heard of cold brew until this thread. I made some yesterday. I was surprised at how much the beans soak up, you're definitely right about the amount it makes. I used 4 cups water, thought I'd get 4 cups back, not even close.

The internet is all over the place on recipe ratios, mostly because people confuse weight and volume. Near as I can tell, a good ratio is about 1 coffee to 4 water by volume, or 1 coffee to 8 water by weight. (Or mass. Please let's not go there.)

My family buys a lot of expensive iced coffee, maybe this will save some money.

On 5/12/2017 3:33 PM, Tim R wrote:
On Friday, May 12, 2017 at 2:08:59 PM UTC-4, rickman wrote:
Cold brewing is a whole different thing that produces much better
coffee to start with. I've never seen a way to do it that produces
as much coffee from the same amount of beans though.

I'd never heard of cold brew until this thread. I made some
yesterday. I was surprised at how much the beans soak up, you're
definitely right about the amount it makes. I used 4 cups water,
thought I'd get 4 cups back, not even close.

The internet is all over the place on recipe ratios, mostly because
people confuse weight and volume. Near as I can tell, a good ratio
is about 1 coffee to 4 water by volume, or 1 coffee to 8 water by
weight. (Or mass. Please let's not go there.)

I wouldn't worry about the ratios for brewing. Brew it strong and
dilute to taste.

You need to let the beans soak overnight to get a proper brew. A friend
who showed me this used a pound of coffee in a special container and
covered the grounds. Into the fridge overnight. The next day the plug
was removed from the bottom and a large felt filter let the coffee
liqueur was drained into a carafe along with some washing of the
grounds. Pour some into a coffee cup and dilute to taste. It didn't
make as much as hot brewing, but was soooo good.

The large felt filter made a world of difference. Using the Melita
paper filters is terrible because they quickly clog stopping the filtering.


My family buys a lot of expensive iced coffee, maybe this will save
some money.

Once she froze the liqueur in ice cube trays so that a cube would make a
cup of coffee. Then it would keep indefinitely. I think that would be
great for iced coffee.

--

Rick C

On 13/05/17 04:08, rickman wrote:
You can chill hot brewed coffee too. What kills it is sitting on the
heat.

Not entirely true. Sitting it on the heat mostly spoils the taste
by burning oily resins that don't get extracted in a cold brew.

Cold brewing is a whole different thing that produces much better coffee
to start with.

Yes. And it reheats better too.

On 5/13/2017 7:15 AM, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 13/05/17 04:08, rickman wrote:
You can chill hot brewed coffee too. What kills it is sitting on the
heat.

Not entirely true. Sitting it on the heat mostly spoils the taste
by burning oily resins that don't get extracted in a cold brew.

What does that have to do with anything? Those components are only a
problem when overheated. In fact, some people don't care for cold
brewed coffee because it loses some of the taste they are used to. They
*like* the taste of hot brewed coffee when fresh. Cold brewed coffee
tastes almost like chocolate to me... not that I mind that...

I tried cold brewing a batch here where my water is from a well and full
of various things. It didn't turn out so well. I guess I could use
bottled water. The water isn't an issue with hot brewing.


Cold brewing is a whole different thing that produces much better coffee
to start with.

Yes. And it reheats better too.

If you say so.

--

Rick C

We did taste tests today.

Drinking it black, cold brew was clearly better.

But none of us drink it black. My family adds huge amounts of creamer, and I put a tablespoon each of butter and coconut oil in every cup.

One advantage of concentrate is not having to wash the pot daily.

On 5/13/2017 11:59 AM, Tim R wrote:
We did taste tests today.

Drinking it black, cold brew was clearly better.

But none of us drink it black. My family adds huge amounts of creamer, and I put a tablespoon each of butter and coconut oil in every cup.

One advantage of concentrate is not having to wash the pot daily.

I think you should be locked away for your own good. :-P

--

Rick C

On 05/13/2017 12:27 PM, rickman wrote:
On 5/13/2017 11:59 AM, Tim R wrote:
We did taste tests today.

Drinking it black, cold brew was clearly better.

But none of us drink it black. My family adds huge amounts of
creamer, and I put a tablespoon each of butter and coconut oil in
every cup.

One advantage of concentrate is not having to wash the pot daily.

I think you should be locked away for your own good. :-P


It's called "bulletproof coffee", probably because you need a
bulletproof stomach.

Popular with the keto diet crowd.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

On 14/05/17 00:50, rickman wrote:
On 5/13/2017 7:15 AM, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 13/05/17 04:08, rickman wrote:
You can chill hot brewed coffee too. What kills it is sitting on the
heat.

Not entirely true. Sitting it on the heat mostly spoils the taste
by burning oily resins that don't get extracted in a cold brew.

What does that have to do with anything? Those components are only a
problem when overheated.

That's just not true. Hot brewing is a balance between not extracting
enough of the fine flavours, and extracting too many unpleasant bitter
ones. Cold brewing simply doesn't extract the bitter flavours that
come from heavier resins, etc. Obviously there will be people who
like bitter flavours anyhow; but to most people they taste bad even
before they've been burnt.

On 5/13/2017 11:40 PM, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 14/05/17 00:50, rickman wrote:
On 5/13/2017 7:15 AM, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 13/05/17 04:08, rickman wrote:
You can chill hot brewed coffee too. What kills it is sitting on the
heat.

Not entirely true. Sitting it on the heat mostly spoils the taste
by burning oily resins that don't get extracted in a cold brew.

What does that have to do with anything? Those components are only a
problem when overheated.

That's just not true. Hot brewing is a balance between not extracting
enough of the fine flavours, and extracting too many unpleasant bitter
ones. Cold brewing simply doesn't extract the bitter flavours that
come from heavier resins, etc. Obviously there will be people who
like bitter flavours anyhow; but to most people they taste bad even
before they've been burnt.

That must be why so few people enjoy hot brewed coffee.

--

Rick C

On 14/05/17 13:48, rickman wrote:
On 5/13/2017 11:40 PM, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 14/05/17 00:50, rickman wrote:
On 5/13/2017 7:15 AM, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 13/05/17 04:08, rickman wrote:
You can chill hot brewed coffee too. What kills it is sitting on the
heat.

Not entirely true. Sitting it on the heat mostly spoils the taste
by burning oily resins that don't get extracted in a cold brew.

What does that have to do with anything? Those components are only a
problem when overheated.

That's just not true. Hot brewing is a balance between not extracting
enough of the fine flavours, and extracting too many unpleasant bitter
ones. Cold brewing simply doesn't extract the bitter flavours that
come from heavier resins, etc. Obviously there will be people who
like bitter flavours anyhow; but to most people they taste bad even
before they've been burnt.

That must be why so few people enjoy hot brewed coffee.

You never pass up the opportunity to show how thick you are, do you?

On 5/14/2017 12:07 AM, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 14/05/17 13:48, rickman wrote:
On 5/13/2017 11:40 PM, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 14/05/17 00:50, rickman wrote:
On 5/13/2017 7:15 AM, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 13/05/17 04:08, rickman wrote:
You can chill hot brewed coffee too. What kills it is sitting on the
heat.

Not entirely true. Sitting it on the heat mostly spoils the taste
by burning oily resins that don't get extracted in a cold brew.

What does that have to do with anything? Those components are only a
problem when overheated.

That's just not true. Hot brewing is a balance between not extracting
enough of the fine flavours, and extracting too many unpleasant bitter
ones. Cold brewing simply doesn't extract the bitter flavours that
come from heavier resins, etc. Obviously there will be people who
like bitter flavours anyhow; but to most people they taste bad even
before they've been burnt.

That must be why so few people enjoy hot brewed coffee.

You never pass up the opportunity to show how thick you are, do you?

It's not hard to understand. Different people have different tastes.
As I have already said, not all people prefer cold brewed coffee. It's
that simple. Taste is a matter of... taste. It's a bit silly to say,
"to most people they taste bad even before they've been burnt." You said
that yourself. Obviously there are plenty of people who like hot brewed
coffee when done properly. So what are you going on about?

--

Rick C

On 14/05/17 14:40, rickman wrote:
On 5/14/2017 12:07 AM, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 14/05/17 13:48, rickman wrote:
On 5/13/2017 11:40 PM, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 14/05/17 00:50, rickman wrote:
On 5/13/2017 7:15 AM, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 13/05/17 04:08, rickman wrote:
You can chill hot brewed coffee too. What kills it is sitting on
the
heat.

Not entirely true. Sitting it on the heat mostly spoils the taste
by burning oily resins that don't get extracted in a cold brew.

What does that have to do with anything? Those components are only a
problem when overheated.

That's just not true. Hot brewing is a balance between not extracting
enough of the fine flavours, and extracting too many unpleasant bitter
ones. Cold brewing simply doesn't extract the bitter flavours that
come from heavier resins, etc. Obviously there will be people who
like bitter flavours anyhow; but to most people they taste bad even
before they've been burnt.

That must be why so few people enjoy hot brewed coffee.

You never pass up the opportunity to show how thick you are, do you?

It's not hard to understand. Different people have different tastes. As
I have already said, not all people prefer cold brewed coffee. It's
that simple. Taste is a matter of... taste. It's a bit silly to say,
"to most people they taste bad even before they've been burnt." You said
that yourself. Obviously there are plenty of people who like hot brewed
coffee when done properly. So what are you going on about?

Baristas know that if the extraction is too hot or too long, the
taste is spoiled by the heavier oils and resins. Too short or too
cool and you don't get all the nice flavours. Popular taste is
around some middle point, with outliers on both sides, of course.
But it's a balance that must be struck.

Cold brew avoids the problem by getting almost all the nice flavours
(though very slowly - hours instead of seconds) without mobilising
the heavier elements. You can re-heat it without the worsening the
effect of those, because they basically aren't present. The only
reason it's not much more common is because it's not quick enough.

Did that make it easier for you to follow? Do your own reading on
the subject, you'll find that a lot of informed opinion agrees.

Since leaving Melbourne (one of the premier coffee-drinking cities
worldwide) I've gone "full Melbourne" in my own coffee tastes,
grinding my own beans right before every brew. I'm about to find
some coffee plants to grow my own - they fruit well in Sydney. Pity
that most of Sydney doesn't know how to make a good coffee!

On 5/14/2017 2:08 AM, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 14/05/17 14:40, rickman wrote:
On 5/14/2017 12:07 AM, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 14/05/17 13:48, rickman wrote:
On 5/13/2017 11:40 PM, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 14/05/17 00:50, rickman wrote:
On 5/13/2017 7:15 AM, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 13/05/17 04:08, rickman wrote:
You can chill hot brewed coffee too. What kills it is sitting on
the
heat.

Not entirely true. Sitting it on the heat mostly spoils the taste
by burning oily resins that don't get extracted in a cold brew.

What does that have to do with anything? Those components are only a
problem when overheated.

That's just not true. Hot brewing is a balance between not extracting
enough of the fine flavours, and extracting too many unpleasant bitter
ones. Cold brewing simply doesn't extract the bitter flavours that
come from heavier resins, etc. Obviously there will be people who
like bitter flavours anyhow; but to most people they taste bad even
before they've been burnt.

That must be why so few people enjoy hot brewed coffee.

You never pass up the opportunity to show how thick you are, do you?

It's not hard to understand. Different people have different tastes. As
I have already said, not all people prefer cold brewed coffee. It's
that simple. Taste is a matter of... taste. It's a bit silly to say,
"to most people they taste bad even before they've been burnt." You said
that yourself. Obviously there are plenty of people who like hot brewed
coffee when done properly. So what are you going on about?

Baristas know that if the extraction is too hot or too long, the
taste is spoiled by the heavier oils and resins. Too short or too
cool and you don't get all the nice flavours. Popular taste is
around some middle point, with outliers on both sides, of course.
But it's a balance that must be struck.

You are being silly. We are talking about personal tastes and you talk
about how a coffee shop has to hit a "sweet spot" to please the most
customers.


Cold brew avoids the problem by getting almost all the nice flavours
(though very slowly - hours instead of seconds) without mobilising
the heavier elements. You can re-heat it without the worsening the
effect of those, because they basically aren't present. The only
reason it's not much more common is because it's not quick enough.

Did that make it easier for you to follow? Do your own reading on
the subject, you'll find that a lot of informed opinion agrees.

You are still missing the point that what are good and bad tastes are
personal preferences. NOT EVERYONE PREFERS COLD BREWED COFFEE!

We seem to be getting nowhere in this. So I guess I'm done.

--

Rick C

On Sun, 14 May 2017 16:08:04 +1000, Clifford Heath
wrote:

On 14/05/17 14:40, rickman wrote:
On 5/14/2017 12:07 AM, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 14/05/17 13:48, rickman wrote:
On 5/13/2017 11:40 PM, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 14/05/17 00:50, rickman wrote:
On 5/13/2017 7:15 AM, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 13/05/17 04:08, rickman wrote:
You can chill hot brewed coffee too. What kills it is sitting on
the
heat.

Not entirely true. Sitting it on the heat mostly spoils the taste
by burning oily resins that don't get extracted in a cold brew.

What does that have to do with anything? Those components are only a
problem when overheated.

That's just not true. Hot brewing is a balance between not extracting
enough of the fine flavours, and extracting too many unpleasant bitter
ones. Cold brewing simply doesn't extract the bitter flavours that
come from heavier resins, etc. Obviously there will be people who
like bitter flavours anyhow; but to most people they taste bad even
before they've been burnt.

That must be why so few people enjoy hot brewed coffee.

You never pass up the opportunity to show how thick you are, do you?

It's not hard to understand. Different people have different tastes. As
I have already said, not all people prefer cold brewed coffee. It's
that simple. Taste is a matter of... taste. It's a bit silly to say,
"to most people they taste bad even before they've been burnt." You said
that yourself. Obviously there are plenty of people who like hot brewed
coffee when done properly. So what are you going on about?

Baristas know that if the extraction is too hot or too long, the
taste is spoiled by the heavier oils and resins. Too short or too
cool and you don't get all the nice flavours. Popular taste is
around some middle point, with outliers on both sides, of course.
But it's a balance that must be struck.

Cold brew avoids the problem by getting almost all the nice flavours
(though very slowly - hours instead of seconds) without mobilising
the heavier elements. You can re-heat it without the worsening the
effect of those, because they basically aren't present. The only
reason it's not much more common is because it's not quick enough.

Did that make it easier for you to follow? Do your own reading on
the subject, you'll find that a lot of informed opinion agrees.

Since leaving Melbourne (one of the premier coffee-drinking cities
worldwide) I've gone "full Melbourne" in my own coffee tastes,
grinding my own beans right before every brew. I'm about to find
some coffee plants to grow my own - they fruit well in Sydney. Pity
that most of Sydney doesn't know how to make a good coffee!
Where I live is a few miles from a small roaster. One of the owners is
a client of my wife. So she gets coffee from them. And boy is it good.
My wife makes excellent coffee. I'm the cook in the house but she is
the coffee master. Now I want to try this cold brewed coffee after
reading all about it. I guess I'm spoiled by the good coffee because I
won't even try to drink a mediocre brew. I'll wait or go without. I'm
not as particular about the beer I drink. Or the gin, as long as it's
at least a certain level of quality. I think the only thing I drink
that I'm as picky about is cognac. But The stuff I like is spendy
enough that I don't drink much.
Eric

On 05/14/2017 02:08 AM, Clifford Heath wrote:

Not entirely true. Sitting it on the heat mostly spoils the taste
by burning oily resins that don't get extracted in a cold brew.

What does that have to do with anything? Those components are only a
problem when overheated.

That's just not true. Hot brewing is a balance between not extracting
enough of the fine flavours, and extracting too many unpleasant bitter
ones. Cold brewing simply doesn't extract the bitter flavours that
come from heavier resins, etc. Obviously there will be people who
like bitter flavours anyhow; but to most people they taste bad even
before they've been burnt.

That must be why so few people enjoy hot brewed coffee.

You never pass up the opportunity to show how thick you are, do you?

It's not hard to understand. Different people have different tastes. As
I have already said, not all people prefer cold brewed coffee. It's
that simple. Taste is a matter of... taste. It's a bit silly to say,
"to most people they taste bad even before they've been burnt." You said
that yourself. Obviously there are plenty of people who like hot brewed
coffee when done properly. So what are you going on about?

Baristas know that if the extraction is too hot or too long, the
taste is spoiled by the heavier oils and resins. Too short or too
cool and you don't get all the nice flavours. Popular taste is
around some middle point, with outliers on both sides, of course.
But it's a balance that must be struck.

Cold brew avoids the problem by getting almost all the nice flavours
(though very slowly - hours instead of seconds) without mobilising
the heavier elements. You can re-heat it without the worsening the
effect of those, because they basically aren't present. The only
reason it's not much more common is because it's not quick enough.

Did that make it easier for you to follow? Do your own reading on
the subject, you'll find that a lot of informed opinion agrees.

Since leaving Melbourne (one of the premier coffee-drinking cities
worldwide) I've gone "full Melbourne" in my own coffee tastes,
grinding my own beans right before every brew. I'm about to find
some coffee plants to grow my own - they fruit well in Sydney. Pity
that most of Sydney doesn't know how to make a good coffee!

I couldn't get a decent cup of coffee in Melbourne two years ago. No
cream or even "half and half" -- only black or milk.

Perce