Thought I had the problem licked, but I ran through a bunch of panels
last night and I'm still getting some burned edges cutting 1/2 inch
melamine particleboard with the crosscut sled.

The degree of burning is alot better than it was BEFORE I adjusted the
blade alignment, so it's not
fill-the-whole-house-with-eye-burning-smoke burning. There are just
very visible burn marks along most of the cut edge, on the cut-side of
the workpiece. There is some chipout as well.

I have adjusted the blade carefully with a dial indicator to within
..0005"--assuming it is accurate. I checked it again several times. I
reference the gullet of one tooth, zero-out the indicator, then
carefully rotate the blade and check the measurement at the same
reference point but at the back of the saw. I am careful not to
introduce side-to-side pressure on the blade.

The dial indicator is screwed to a wood stip which is clamped to the
miter bar. There is no sideways 'play' in the miter slot. The dial
indicator is referencing the blade at a 90 degree angle. The dial
indicator is newly purchased from Lee Valley.

The blade is a new Oldham 100 tooth blade marked, "Ultra Finishing
Plywood/ OSB Industrial Carbide." The blade is only a month old, with
maybe 2-3 hours cutting time on it. There are no chips in the blade,
and it has just been cleaned.

I checked the runnout on the blade, and it is showing out-of-round by
..002 inch showing on the dial indicator. I am not able to check the
runnout on the saw's arbor because I don't have a magnetic base for the
indicator, but there is no play in the arbor.

I'v run cuts without the crosscut sled and there is no signs of
burning. With the crosscut sled--burn marks. I tried raising the
blade up, but that does not help improve the burning. It did result in
worse chipout, however.

Any ideas about what to do?

Mr Fixit eh

"Mr Fixit eh" wrote in message
oups.com...

Snip


I'v run cuts without the crosscut sled and there is no signs of
burning. With the crosscut sled--burn marks.


When you cut WITH the cross cut sled are you feeding the wood from the same
side of the blade as when NOT using the cross cut sled? Some times miter
slots are not parallel. Does your sled use the same miter slot that you
used to tune the TS?


I tried raising the
blade up, but that does not help improve the burning. It did result in
worse chipout, however.

More chip out sounds normal especially if the path runs towards the blade.
If there is less or no chip from the other side of the blade your saw could
still not be tweaked enough or the blade is not good, new or not.


Any ideas about what to do?

Try another blade. If the burning is less I would suspect the blade. Try
cutting from the other side of the blade. If the burning is less your TS is
still probably not set up properly.


Mr Fixit eh

You didn't mention how the panel is being held in the cross-cut sled. I
suspect the panel is moving slightly on you and that is why you're still
seeing a slight burning.

When I built my sled, I built-in a sliding cross-piece that goes from front
to back. In that I used two clamp screws like used on the Delta tennon jig.
They were modified slightly by brazing some large washers on that hold the
clamps in the cross-piece and allow them to slide for positioning.

When I place a panel in the sled, I position the clamps so one is at the
front of the panel and one at the back edge -and both are near the line of
cut. Place a piece of thin scrap under each clamp so they don't get
indented and screw both clamps down - the panel doesn't move one bit.

You can probably use a temporary jig to see if that is the problem and clamp
the panel down so it cannot move in any direction. Worth a shot to see if
that's a good fix - or not for you.

Bob S.


"Mr Fixit eh" wrote in message
oups.com...
Thought I had the problem licked, but I ran through a bunch of panels
last night and I'm still getting some burned edges cutting 1/2 inch
melamine particleboard with the crosscut sled.

The degree of burning is alot better than it was BEFORE I adjusted the
blade alignment, so it's not
fill-the-whole-house-with-eye-burning-smoke burning. There are just
very visible burn marks along most of the cut edge, on the cut-side of
the workpiece. There is some chipout as well.

I have adjusted the blade carefully with a dial indicator to within
.0005"--assuming it is accurate. I checked it again several times. I
reference the gullet of one tooth, zero-out the indicator, then
carefully rotate the blade and check the measurement at the same
reference point but at the back of the saw. I am careful not to
introduce side-to-side pressure on the blade.

The dial indicator is screwed to a wood stip which is clamped to the
miter bar. There is no sideways 'play' in the miter slot. The dial
indicator is referencing the blade at a 90 degree angle. The dial
indicator is newly purchased from Lee Valley.

The blade is a new Oldham 100 tooth blade marked, "Ultra Finishing
Plywood/ OSB Industrial Carbide." The blade is only a month old, with
maybe 2-3 hours cutting time on it. There are no chips in the blade,
and it has just been cleaned.

I checked the runnout on the blade, and it is showing out-of-round by
.002 inch showing on the dial indicator. I am not able to check the
runnout on the saw's arbor because I don't have a magnetic base for the
indicator, but there is no play in the arbor.

I'v run cuts without the crosscut sled and there is no signs of
burning. With the crosscut sled--burn marks. I tried raising the
blade up, but that does not help improve the burning. It did result in
worse chipout, however.

Any ideas about what to do?

Mr Fixit eh

I'm not trying to slight anyone and this is far fetched but worth
asking if everything else checks out:

Is the blade installed in the right direction? DAMHIKT.

Chuck


Mr Fixit eh wrote:
Thought I had the problem licked, but I ran through a bunch of panels
last night and I'm still getting some burned edges cutting 1/2 inch
melamine particleboard with the crosscut sled.

The degree of burning is alot better than it was BEFORE I adjusted
the
blade alignment, so it's not
fill-the-whole-house-with-eye-burning-smoke burning. There are just
very visible burn marks along most of the cut edge, on the cut-side
of
the workpiece. There is some chipout as well.

I have adjusted the blade carefully with a dial indicator to within
.0005"--assuming it is accurate. I checked it again several times.
I
reference the gullet of one tooth, zero-out the indicator, then
carefully rotate the blade and check the measurement at the same
reference point but at the back of the saw. I am careful not to
introduce side-to-side pressure on the blade.

The dial indicator is screwed to a wood stip which is clamped to the
miter bar. There is no sideways 'play' in the miter slot. The dial
indicator is referencing the blade at a 90 degree angle. The dial
indicator is newly purchased from Lee Valley.

The blade is a new Oldham 100 tooth blade marked, "Ultra Finishing
Plywood/ OSB Industrial Carbide." The blade is only a month old,
with
maybe 2-3 hours cutting time on it. There are no chips in the blade,
and it has just been cleaned.

I checked the runnout on the blade, and it is showing out-of-round by
.002 inch showing on the dial indicator. I am not able to check the
runnout on the saw's arbor because I don't have a magnetic base for
the
indicator, but there is no play in the arbor.

I'v run cuts without the crosscut sled and there is no signs of
burning. With the crosscut sled--burn marks. I tried raising the
blade up, but that does not help improve the burning. It did result
in
worse chipout, however.

Any ideas about what to do?

Mr Fixit eh

If it burns with a sled, but not without, then something about the sled is
not square; either the sled or the miter slots.

More teeth are more likely to burn; if you can try a 60 or 80 tooth blade...

Leon
The sled uses both miter slots.

The chipout is on the upward-facing surface. The surface that rests on
the sled is purrrfect n pretty.

I don't get burning when I use my 40 tooth combination blade, but I
figure it's because the 40 tooth blade is just more forgiving.

Bob, I like the idea of the clamps, I will try to add clamps to the
sled at some point. I'm pretty sure that the burning is not from panel
movement on the sled because the burning is so consistent, but I could
be wrong. I will try to jury-rig some clamps to see if I can rule it
out one way or the other.

How much runout can a blade have before it would cause burning?



Mr Fixit eh

Leon
The sled uses both miter slots.

The chipout is on the upward-facing surface. The surface that rests on
the sled is purrrfect n pretty.

I don't get burning when I use my 40 tooth combination blade, but I
figure it's because the 40 tooth blade is just more forgiving.

Bob, I like the idea of the clamps, I will try to add clamps to the
sled at some point. I'm pretty sure that the burning is not from panel
movement on the sled because the burning is so consistent, but I could
be wrong. I will try to jury-rig some clamps to see if I can rule it
out one way or the other.

How much runout can a blade have before it would cause burning?



Mr Fixit eh

"Leon" wrote in message
om...

"Mr Fixit eh" wrote in message
oups.com...

Snip


I'v run cuts without the crosscut sled and there is no signs of
burning. With the crosscut sled--burn marks.


When you cut WITH the cross cut sled are you feeding the wood from the
same side of the blade as when NOT using the cross cut sled? Some times
miter slots are not parallel. Does your sled use the same miter slot that
you used to tune the TS?

....and are you sure the sled is precisely aligned? If the marks are always
on the same side you may not have an exact 90-degree angle on the sled.

Bob

Just a thought: Clamp the dial indicator setup to your c/c jig and then
check runout.
Sam

I thought about that answer... and I don't know how that could be... The
blade would cut a new slot no matter what alignment.... The piece being
cut would be out of square... but the sled should have no effect.


Now are you possibly moving too slowly trying to eliminate
chipout/tearout... This could explain the burning. You must move at a
reasonable rate... the blade not being in alignment will cause a certain
amount of burn, but .002 is not going to burn noticeably...

Oldhams have not received high marks in tests.... Try a better blade if
all else fails. WWII is a great general purpose blade. I believe Forrest
sells a laminate blade. I think freud blades do much better than Oldham.....


toller wrote:
If it burns with a sled, but not without, then something about the sled is
not square; either the sled or the miter slots.

More teeth are more likely to burn; if you can try a 60 or 80 tooth blade...

On 3 Feb 2005 11:05:52 -0800, "Mr Fixit eh"
wrote:

Leon
The sled uses both miter slots.

The chipout is on the upward-facing surface. The surface that rests on
the sled is purrrfect n pretty.

sounds like it's the back (upward moving) teeth doing the damage.

is the fence part of your sled good and straight? if it's bowed,
either way, it'll tend to bind up the material.




I don't get burning when I use my 40 tooth combination blade, but I
figure it's because the 40 tooth blade is just more forgiving.

Bob, I like the idea of the clamps, I will try to add clamps to the
sled at some point. I'm pretty sure that the burning is not from panel
movement on the sled because the burning is so consistent, but I could
be wrong. I will try to jury-rig some clamps to see if I can rule it
out one way or the other.

How much runout can a blade have before it would cause burning?



Mr Fixit eh

"Mr Fixit eh" wrote in message
ups.com...
Leon
The sled uses both miter slots.

The chipout is on the upward-facing surface. The surface that rests on
the sled is purrrfect n pretty.

Then I suspect that you sled is not tracking parallel to the blade. The
back side of the blade is cutting again. Only the front side of the blade
should be doing the cutting.


I don't get burning when I use my 40 tooth combination blade, but I
figure it's because the 40 tooth blade is just more forgiving.

Or better suited. I use a 40 tooth WWII for "Everything" I threw my 100+
tooth blades away after using the Forrest.

Bob, I like the idea of the clamps, I will try to add clamps to the
sled at some point. I'm pretty sure that the burning is not from panel
movement on the sled because the burning is so consistent, but I could
be wrong. I will try to jury-rig some clamps to see if I can rule it
out one way or the other.

How much runout can a blade have before it would cause burning?



Mr Fixit eh

There are things you can do. First, the end of the fence (past the blade)
should be 5 to 10 thousands further away from the blade than the front side.
Second, the gullets on the blade are probably not deep enough to carry away
the chips, Third, use a splitter. My splitter is a piece of brass plate the
thickness of the kerf. The splitter is adjusted (by bending) to push the
wood against the fence. I would also try a faster feed rate.
max

Thought I had the problem licked, but I ran through a bunch of panels
last night and I'm still getting some burned edges cutting 1/2 inch
melamine particleboard with the crosscut sled.

The degree of burning is alot better than it was BEFORE I adjusted the
blade alignment, so it's not
fill-the-whole-house-with-eye-burning-smoke burning. There are just
very visible burn marks along most of the cut edge, on the cut-side of
the workpiece. There is some chipout as well.

I have adjusted the blade carefully with a dial indicator to within
.0005"--assuming it is accurate. I checked it again several times. I
reference the gullet of one tooth, zero-out the indicator, then
carefully rotate the blade and check the measurement at the same
reference point but at the back of the saw. I am careful not to
introduce side-to-side pressure on the blade.

The dial indicator is screwed to a wood stip which is clamped to the
miter bar. There is no sideways 'play' in the miter slot. The dial
indicator is referencing the blade at a 90 degree angle. The dial
indicator is newly purchased from Lee Valley.

The blade is a new Oldham 100 tooth blade marked, "Ultra Finishing
Plywood/ OSB Industrial Carbide." The blade is only a month old, with
maybe 2-3 hours cutting time on it. There are no chips in the blade,
and it has just been cleaned.

I checked the runnout on the blade, and it is showing out-of-round by
.002 inch showing on the dial indicator. I am not able to check the
runnout on the saw's arbor because I don't have a magnetic base for the
indicator, but there is no play in the arbor.

I'v run cuts without the crosscut sled and there is no signs of
burning. With the crosscut sled--burn marks. I tried raising the
blade up, but that does not help improve the burning. It did result in
worse chipout, however.

Any ideas about what to do?

Mr Fixit eh

Woodchuck: not offended, but yes the blade is installed with the teeth
facing towards the front of the saw. What's DAMHIKT?

Brid...: the fence is perfectly straight and rigid.

Leon says, Then I suspect that you sled is not tracking parallel to
the=AD blade. The sled is tracking parallel to the miter slot within
0=2E001. Are you thinking that the fence is not truly 90 degrees to the
saw blade?

Leon says, Or better suited. I use a 40 tooth WWII for "Everything"
I=AD threw my 100+
tooth blades away after using the Forrest. I called Oldham customer
service. They said that this blade is not specifically designed for
cutting melamine. They have a specialty blade with 80 teeth and a
negative 10 degree hook angle ATB tooth. She said to try cutting a
plywood panel, and if it doesn't burn then it is just the blade is not
compatible with this material. I asked if the .002 runout could cause
the burning and she didn't know what the specs on the blade were.

Is it possible that 0.002 runout could cause burning?

Thanks very much for all your replies, much appreciated.

Is it possible that 0.002 runout could cause burning?

Not likely. One more question. Is this a carbide tooth blade that we are
talking about? I know some plywood blades are plain steel and the clearance
between the kerf and the side of the blade will cause burning. Sometimes
the side of these blades near the middle is actually wider than the kerf.



Thanks very much for all your replies, much appreciated.

"Leon" wrote in message
. com...



Is it possible that 0.002 runout could cause burning?

Not likely. One more question. Is this a carbide tooth blade that we are
talking about? I know some plywood blades are plain steel and the
clearance between the kerf and the side of the blade will cause burning.
Sometimes the side of these blades near the middle is actually wider than
the kerf.


Sorry I see that it is indeed carbide.

I've had similiar problems at work with a similiar blade. I ended up
putting the old blade back on and the problem disappeared. Hopefully it'll
cure you problem too --dave



"max" wrote in message
...
There are things you can do. First, the end of the fence (past the blade)
should be 5 to 10 thousands further away from the blade than the front
side.
Second, the gullets on the blade are probably not deep enough to carry
away
the chips, Third, use a splitter. My splitter is a piece of brass plate
the
thickness of the kerf. The splitter is adjusted (by bending) to push the
wood against the fence. I would also try a faster feed rate.
max

Thought I had the problem licked, but I ran through a bunch of panels
last night and I'm still getting some burned edges cutting 1/2 inch
melamine particleboard with the crosscut sled.

The degree of burning is alot better than it was BEFORE I adjusted the
blade alignment, so it's not
fill-the-whole-house-with-eye-burning-smoke burning. There are just
very visible burn marks along most of the cut edge, on the cut-side of
the workpiece. There is some chipout as well.

I have adjusted the blade carefully with a dial indicator to within
.0005"--assuming it is accurate. I checked it again several times. I
reference the gullet of one tooth, zero-out the indicator, then
carefully rotate the blade and check the measurement at the same
reference point but at the back of the saw. I am careful not to
introduce side-to-side pressure on the blade.

The dial indicator is screwed to a wood stip which is clamped to the
miter bar. There is no sideways 'play' in the miter slot. The dial
indicator is referencing the blade at a 90 degree angle. The dial
indicator is newly purchased from Lee Valley.

The blade is a new Oldham 100 tooth blade marked, "Ultra Finishing
Plywood/ OSB Industrial Carbide." The blade is only a month old, with
maybe 2-3 hours cutting time on it. There are no chips in the blade,
and it has just been cleaned.

I checked the runnout on the blade, and it is showing out-of-round by
.002 inch showing on the dial indicator. I am not able to check the
runnout on the saw's arbor because I don't have a magnetic base for the
indicator, but there is no play in the arbor.

I'v run cuts without the crosscut sled and there is no signs of
burning. With the crosscut sled--burn marks. I tried raising the
blade up, but that does not help improve the burning. It did result in
worse chipout, however.

Any ideas about what to do?

Mr Fixit eh

Hard to believe the sled is not tracking to the blade considering the
sled is tracking to the miter slot (via miter bar), and he said the
blade is parallel to the miter slot

John

On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 19:59:59 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:


"Mr Fixit eh" wrote in message
oups.com...
Leon
The sled uses both miter slots.

The chipout is on the upward-facing surface. The surface that rests on
the sled is purrrfect n pretty.

Then I suspect that you sled is not tracking parallel to the blade. The
back side of the blade is cutting again. Only the front side of the blade
should be doing the cutting.


I don't get burning when I use my 40 tooth combination blade, but I
figure it's because the 40 tooth blade is just more forgiving.

Or better suited. I use a 40 tooth WWII for "Everything" I threw my 100+
tooth blades away after using the Forrest.

Bob, I like the idea of the clamps, I will try to add clamps to the
sled at some point. I'm pretty sure that the burning is not from panel
movement on the sled because the burning is so consistent, but I could
be wrong. I will try to jury-rig some clamps to see if I can rule it
out one way or the other.

How much runout can a blade have before it would cause burning?



Mr Fixit eh

"Mr Fixit eh" wrote in message
oups.com...
Thought I had the problem licked, but I ran through a bunch of panels
last night and I'm still getting some burned edges cutting 1/2 inch
melamine particleboard with the crosscut sled.

The degree of burning is alot better than it was BEFORE I adjusted the
blade alignment, so it's not
fill-the-whole-house-with-eye-burning-smoke burning. There are just
very visible burn marks along most of the cut edge, on the cut-side of
the workpiece. There is some chipout as well.

I have adjusted the blade carefully with a dial indicator to within
.0005"--assuming it is accurate. I checked it again several times. I
reference the gullet of one tooth, zero-out the indicator, then
carefully rotate the blade and check the measurement at the same
reference point but at the back of the saw. I am careful not to
introduce side-to-side pressure on the blade.

The dial indicator is screwed to a wood stip which is clamped to the
miter bar. There is no sideways 'play' in the miter slot. The dial
indicator is referencing the blade at a 90 degree angle. The dial
indicator is newly purchased from Lee Valley.

The blade is a new Oldham 100 tooth blade marked, "Ultra Finishing
Plywood/ OSB Industrial Carbide." The blade is only a month old, with
maybe 2-3 hours cutting time on it. There are no chips in the blade,
and it has just been cleaned.

I checked the runnout on the blade, and it is showing out-of-round by
.002 inch showing on the dial indicator. I am not able to check the
runnout on the saw's arbor because I don't have a magnetic base for the
indicator, but there is no play in the arbor.

I'v run cuts without the crosscut sled and there is no signs of
burning. With the crosscut sled--burn marks. I tried raising the
blade up, but that does not help improve the burning. It did result in
worse chipout, however.

Any ideas about what to do?

Mr Fixit eh

What do you mean "cuts w/o the crosscut sled"? Were you ripping
or crosscutting with a miter gauge?

Does your TS have alot of vibration and are you using a
blade stiffener?

"John" wrote in message
...
Hard to believe the sled is not tracking to the blade considering the
sled is tracking to the miter slot (via miter bar), and he said the
blade is parallel to the miter slot

Yes that would be hard to believe but if the back of the blade is hitting
the wood the sled would not be tracking correctly and most likely because
the slots are not aligned properly to the blade. Or he is letting the wood
slip.

"max" wrote in message
...
There are things you can do. First, the end of the fence (past the blade)
should be 5 to 10 thousands further away from the blade than the front
side.

That is really just a band aid to hide a problem. It helps the keeper side
stay cleaner but the waste side begins to hit the back side of the blade and
it too may show tooth marks or burn. If you plan to use the waste side
little has actually been gained. Better to set everything up correctly in
the first place. You run your miter gauge parallel to the blade, your fence
should also be parallel to the blade also.

msschm and Larry: I clamped the dial indicator to the crosscut sled
about midway between the front and back fences. The blade is OUT OF
ALIGNMENT with the sled by .008", How can this be, I ask when the
blade is within .0005 to the left-hand miterslot?

So I check Leon's suggestion and test the alignment of the right side
miter slot. Guess what, it's out by .011. There must have been enough
slack in the left-hand slot that the crosscut sled is tracking mostly
to the right-side miter slot.

Also, I was somewhat wrong in saying that there is burning on the sled
but not when using the fence (without the sled). I had been checking
the cut panels, not the offcut. Because the burning is on the offcut
when using the fence, I wasn't noticing it when cutting using the fence
-- I wasn't checking the offcuts. When using the fence, the burning is
less than when using the sled, but still noticeable.

SSSOOOOOOO.....

I guess I'll need to double check the fence alignment.

And now my question becomes, Ok, how do I correct for the misaligned
miter slots to overcome this problem. O yeah, once I fix this miter
slot, how can I re-align my crosscut sled .

Growl.

"Mr Fixit eh" wrote in message
ups.com...
msschm and Larry: I clamped the dial indicator to the crosscut sled
about midway between the front and back fences. The blade is OUT OF
ALIGNMENT with the sled by .008", How can this be, I ask when the
blade is within .0005 to the left-hand miterslot?

So I check Leon's suggestion and test the alignment of the right side
miter slot. Guess what, it's out by .011. There must have been enough
slack in the left-hand slot that the crosscut sled is tracking mostly
to the right-side miter slot.

Is this a new saw? If so see if the manufacturer will get yo a new TS top
and begin the alignment fun again.


And now my question becomes, Ok, how do I correct for the misaligned
miter slots to overcome this problem. O yeah, once I fix this miter
slot, how can I re-align my crosscut sled .


I do not think you can other than using the slot that is actually parallel
to the blade and do not use the other slot. Remove the sled runner that
fits in the slot that is not parallel.

In article , "Bob Schmall" wrote:

....and are you sure the sled is precisely aligned? If the marks are always
on the same side you may not have an exact 90-degree angle on the sled.

That would manifest itself as out-of-square cuts, not as burning.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

Get a copy of my NEW AND IMPROVED TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter
by sending email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com
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In article .com, "Mr Fixit eh" wrote:
Woodchuck: not offended, but yes the blade is installed with the teeth
facing towards the front of the saw. What's DAMHIKT?

DAMHIKT = Don't Ask Me How I Know This

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

Get a copy of my NEW AND IMPROVED TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter
by sending email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com
You must use your REAL email address to get a response.

Wouldn't matter.

"Bob Schmall" wrote in message
...

...and are you sure the sled is precisely aligned? If the marks are always
on the same side you may not have an exact 90-degree angle on the sled.

Bob

Won't matter.

"toller" wrote in message
...
If it burns with a sled, but not without, then something about the sled is
not square; either the sled or the miter slots.

Nope.

"Larry Kraus" wrote in message
...
I like this idea. If you clamp your indicator to the fence on the
sled, then slide the fence past the blade, you will be able to see if
your fence is at a true 90 degrees. I suspect it is not.

wrote:

Just a thought: Clamp the dial indicator setup to your c/c jig and then
check runout.
Sam

Are you sure it's not just a dirty blade? Last few times I had that
problem a thorough blade cleaning got rid of the burning.

I was using an 80 tooth blade on some plywood. Blade was dirty - bad
burning. Cleaned the blade - still some burning.

Looked at notes that came with blade. Noticed it was marked as "good"
for plywood.

Looked through my TS blade collections. Found a 50 tooth blade marked
"excellent" for plywood. Tried it - touch of burning. Cleaned dirt on
blade - no more burning. (I left the dirt for the test cut simply to see
if the dirt was an independent issue.)

Moral right blade, clean blade.

Fence is off a touch - does not appear to affect most cuts.

Mr Fixit eh wrote:
Thought I had the problem licked, but I ran through a bunch of panels
last night and I'm still getting some burned edges cutting 1/2 inch
melamine particleboard with the crosscut sled.
--
Will
Occasional Techno-geek

On 3 Feb 2005 15:53:04 -0800, "Mr Fixit eh"
wrote:

msschm and Larry: I clamped the dial indicator to the crosscut sled
about midway between the front and back fences. The blade is OUT OF
ALIGNMENT with the sled by .008", How can this be, I ask when the
blade is within .0005 to the left-hand miterslot?

So I check Leon's suggestion and test the alignment of the right side
miter slot. Guess what, it's out by .011. There must have been enough
slack in the left-hand slot that the crosscut sled is tracking mostly
to the right-side miter slot.

==================
Major reason to construct a sled using only one miter slot...
That is what I have been doing for years ...out of laziness I must
admit..

Bob Griffiths

Mr Fixit eh wrote:
Woodchuck: not offended, but yes the blade is installed with the
teeth
facing towards the front of the saw. What's DAMHIKT?

DAMHIKT = "Don't Ask Me How I Know That"

I almost started a bon fire once.

I haven't used Oldham's saw blades, but I had a couple of close runins
with their router bits and I'm no rookie when it comes to routing.

Chuck

And now my question becomes, Ok, how do I correct for the misaligned
miter slots to overcome this problem. O yeah, once I fix this miter
slot, how can I re-align my crosscut sled .

Growl.

If you just bought a cabinet saw, I'd call them to get a new top. I
don't know acceptable tolerances for miter slots on new tops, but I
doubt the slots on even a PM66's are within .0005. Maybe I'm wrong.

I suggest adjusting the trunnions to average the slots out. FYI
..0005+.011/2=.00575 But that's because I prefer to use a dual slot cc
jig as I expect single slots jigs would deflect. Once again, maybe I'm
wrong.

My $.02 less capital gains =$.016
Sam

On 3 Feb 2005 10:13:19 -0800, "Mr Fixit eh"
wrote:

snip

Any ideas about what to do?

Mr Fixit eh

How sharp is the blade? Can you make a grove in your
fingernail using the edge of the blade? If not, you'll need
to sharpen the blade.

Couldn't be that simple, though.

Thunder

Great thread! Thanks for all the great replies. I was just re-reading
all the comments and thought I'd make the following comments:

Sadly, it is a new-to-me saw, so there's no warranty.

There is no vibration when the saw is running with any blade. I am
using the arbor nut and washer only, I'm not using a blade stiffener.

The blade is sharp and spankin' clean.

Trouble with re-adjusting the blade alignment to average out the error,
then cuts using any jig that relies on just one miter slot will suffer
from burning or chiping, right?

Would there be any way for me to re-machine the wayward miter slot, or
would I have to take the top to a machine-shop? If I have to take it
to a shop, what would I be asking for (so I don't sound too stupid)?
What sort of cost would I be looking at?

Ok, this is a little embarassing.....

I was curious how the two miter slots could be that much out of
alignment on a Delta cabinet saw, so I spent some more 'quality' time
with my saw. The miter slots ARE parallel to each other within .002".
I used a 4" wide piece of melamine-faced particleboard that fit snugly
in the miter slot, checked to make sure the piece was at 90 degrees to
the tabletop, then clamped the dial indicator-on-a-stick to the miter
gauge. Then I switched sides just as a double-check.

So now I'm really scratching my head. I go back and check the
alignment of the blade to the right-side miter slot, and guess what--it
is now out of alignment by nearly 0.011". I had run about 30 cuts
since I adjusted the blade alignment, and I guess the trunnion has
shifted. Either that, or I'm truly going crazy! Now it does make
sense that the latest cuts were producing much more burning and
starting to see some visible smoke.

So now I'm thinking that it's not the crosscut sled's fault at all, but
still the nasty blade alignment.

I wonder if I'll ever get to the point where I'm spending more time
cutting than adjusting the saw.

Growl.

Mr Fixit eh

I hope this doesn't double-post. The site seems to be having trouble
posting today.

Mr Fixit eh

Mr Fixit eh Feb 8, 9:20 am show options

Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
From: "Mr Fixit eh" - Find messages by this author

Date: 8 Feb 2005 09:20:09 -0800
Local: Tues, Feb 8 2005 9:20 am
Subject: Grumpy: TS Still Burning
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Ok, this is a little embarassing.....


I was curious how the two miter slots could be that much out of
alignment on a Delta cabinet saw, so I spent some more 'quality' time
with my saw. The miter slots ARE parallel to each other within .002".
I used a 4" wide piece of melamine-faced particleboard that fit snugly

in the miter slot, checked to make sure the piece was at 90 degrees to
the tabletop, then clamped the dial indicator-on-a-stick to the miter
gauge. Then I switched sides just as a double-check.


So now I'm really scratching my head. I go back and check the
alignment of the blade to the right-side miter slot, and guess what--it

is now out of alignment by nearly 0.011". I had run about 30 cuts
since I adjusted the blade alignment, and I guess the trunnion has
shifted. Either that, or I'm truly going crazy! Now it does make
sense that the latest cuts were producing much more burning and
starting to see some visible smoke.


So now I'm thinking that it's not the crosscut sled's fault at all, but

still the nasty blade alignment.


I wonder if I'll ever get to the point where I'm spending more time
cutting than adjusting the saw.


Growl.


Mr Fixit eh

Grumpy,

If the addy is good, I can send you a couple of posts that I made back in
2000 when I had a Delta CS and what I did to fix several problems. Part of
the alignment procedures are not in the Delta manuals (at the time) and the
rest was from me tweaking things to make the alignment easier. Even though I
list specific model numbers - these are generic type procedures that will
work as long as your CS has two tie-bars between the front and rear
trunnions.

I know few will believe it but after making the minor changes/fixes and
following the Delta procedures, I could do a complete alignment in about 15
minutes without resorting to and 2x4's, big hammers or any of those 3rd
party Alignment Pals and have it to within 1 thou.

They should also be available by doing a Google in rec.woodworking also. Do
a search on:

1. Delta Blade Alignment Procedures - Contractors saw models 34-444 and
34-445Z
2. Follow-up to Delta Blade Alignment Procedures


Bob S.

"Mr Fixit eh" wrote in message
oups.com...
Ok, this is a little embarassing.....

I was curious how the two miter slots could be that much out of
alignment on a Delta cabinet saw, so I spent some more 'quality' time
with my saw. The miter slots ARE parallel to each other within .002".
I used a 4" wide piece of melamine-faced particleboard that fit snugly
in the miter slot, checked to make sure the piece was at 90 degrees to
the tabletop, then clamped the dial indicator-on-a-stick to the miter
gauge. Then I switched sides just as a double-check.

So now I'm really scratching my head. I go back and check the
alignment of the blade to the right-side miter slot, and guess what--it
is now out of alignment by nearly 0.011". I had run about 30 cuts
since I adjusted the blade alignment, and I guess the trunnion has
shifted. Either that, or I'm truly going crazy! Now it does make
sense that the latest cuts were producing much more burning and
starting to see some visible smoke.

So now I'm thinking that it's not the crosscut sled's fault at all, but
still the nasty blade alignment.

I wonder if I'll ever get to the point where I'm spending more time
cutting than adjusting the saw.

Growl.

Mr Fixit eh

BobS wrote:

" .... I could do a complete alignment in about 15
minutes without resorting to and 2x4's, big hammers or any
of those 3rd party Alignment Pals and have it to within 1 thou."

Just wondering what measurement method you used.

Ray

I used a TS Aligner Jr.

Bob S.


wrote in message
oups.com...
BobS wrote:

" .... I could do a complete alignment in about 15
minutes without resorting to and 2x4's, big hammers or any
of those 3rd party Alignment Pals and have it to within 1 thou."

Just wondering what measurement method you used.

Ray

Thanks Bob and Bruce.

The email address is good, I filter it for spam, so just use a subject
like 'tablesaw'.

I had discovered these threads earlier. I took the bolts out and added
lock washers based on your suggestion. Has anybody got a torque value.
I don't want to strip the threads or break a bolt. On the other hand,
I had the blade adjusted to .0001 a week ago, and it 'lost' the
adjustment over about 30 cuts, so I want them to be tight enough so it
doesn't happen again.

Sure would be nice to make this adjustment in 15minutes. I spent about
5 hours last night. The problem was that I'd get the adjustment
bang-on, then when I tightened up the trunnion bolts, the adjustment
would be all-wrong again.

My 'discoveries':

1. I clamped the trunnions to the tabletop. This way, when the bolts
are loosened up, the assembly stays 'put', and the after-tightening
alignment is alot closer to what I started with.

2. I found that the front trunnion bolt on the right-hand side (facing
the saw) had the most detrimental effect on the alignment when doing
final tightening. I tightened this bolt to full torque first, then
made any corrections, then tightened up the other bolts.

Using these two 'tricks', I was able to get the blade to within .002"

Cuts on the crosscut sled are pretty much burn-free now. Should I be
happy and call it quits and just pray it 'stays put'?