I am considering buying a Craftsman RAS for mostly dado work. Does
anyone have any info thay can share about there experiences with the
Craftsman?

On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 20:01:02 -0800, Keith wrote:

I am considering buying a Craftsman RAS for mostly dado work. Does anyone
have any info thay can share about there experiences with the Craftsman?

New, used, year, model, your knowledge on RAS setup & tuning & usage, .....

Not nearly enough info to help you.

-Doug

Strictly for Dado your Craftsman will probably work fine. Assuming you are
purchasing a 10" RAS, buy a quality 8" dado, some will say use only a 6"
dado, but on the RAS the 8" works as a flywheel to keep up the motor speed.

You might consider buying a DeWalt instead so that you can use your RAS for
other operations too. The DeWalt alignment system is the best in the
business and doesn't come out of alignment easily.

--

Rumpty

Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start

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"Keith" wrote in message
om...
I am considering buying a Craftsman RAS for mostly dado work. Does
anyone have any info thay can share about there experiences with the
Craftsman?

"Rumpty" wrote in message
...
Strictly for Dado your Craftsman will probably work fine. Assuming you are
purchasing a 10" RAS, buy a quality 8" dado, some will say use only a 6"
dado, but on the RAS the 8" works as a flywheel to keep up the motor
speed.




Stick with the 8" dado, the motor housing resticts the depth of cut too
much. With a 6" dado you will be able to do very shallow cuts. i use a 8"
dado in mine with no problem.
IIRC I can cut about 1-1/4"+ in depth with a 8" dado in my Crapsman saw. a
6" would get that down to just 1/4"+ in depth. Good enough for 90% of the
cuts, but deep dados will be out of the question.
Greg

On 17 Nov 2004 20:01:02 -0800, (Keith) wrote:

I am considering buying a Craftsman RAS for mostly dado work. Does
anyone have any info thay can share about there experiences with the
Craftsman?

IME, crosscutting dados with my Craftsman RAS is a bit tough because the
blades really grab the wood and the carriage lurches forward. While there
are RAS blades made to help avoid this when simply cutting, I do not know
of a dado blade designed for the RAS.

This you may know, as it applies to RAS in general: If the wood does not
sit flat on the TS when you cut a dado, the dado will be too shallow -- and
you can cut it again in the same piece of wood. Of course on the RAS if
the wood is not flat the dado is cut too deep. For example, if you are
ripping a dado on a long piece with the RAS and the wood is not supported
well, it can arch upwards along the way and you cut too deep. For that
matter, even crosscutting in a long piece can cause problems, but they are
a bit easier to catch before you cut. So, you have to be plan accordingly
to ensure that the wood is flat to the table.

All that being said, it can be much easier to cross-cut a bunch of dados in
8' long pieces using an RAS than a TS. HTH. -- Igor

IME, crosscutting dados with my Craftsman RAS is a bit tough because the
blades really grab the wood and the carriage lurches forward. While there
are RAS blades made to help avoid this when simply cutting, I do not know
of a dado blade designed for the RAS.

Forrest make a great dado blade that works well on the RAS.

carriage lurches forward

The roller head bearings might be too loose and require adjustment. You need
to hold onto the motor with some positive control.

--

Rumpty

Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start

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"igor" wrote in message
...
On 17 Nov 2004 20:01:02 -0800, (Keith) wrote:

I am considering buying a Craftsman RAS for mostly dado work. Does
anyone have any info thay can share about there experiences with the
Craftsman?

IME, crosscutting dados with my Craftsman RAS is a bit tough because the
blades really grab the wood and the carriage lurches forward. While there
are RAS blades made to help avoid this when simply cutting, I do not know
of a dado blade designed for the RAS.

This you may know, as it applies to RAS in general: If the wood does not
sit flat on the TS when you cut a dado, the dado will be too shallow --
and
you can cut it again in the same piece of wood. Of course on the RAS if
the wood is not flat the dado is cut too deep. For example, if you are
ripping a dado on a long piece with the RAS and the wood is not supported
well, it can arch upwards along the way and you cut too deep. For that
matter, even crosscutting in a long piece can cause problems, but they are
a bit easier to catch before you cut. So, you have to be plan accordingly
to ensure that the wood is flat to the table.

All that being said, it can be much easier to cross-cut a bunch of dados
in
8' long pieces using an RAS than a TS. HTH. -- Igor

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 08:24:30 -0500, Rumpty wrote:

IME, crosscutting dados with my Craftsman RAS is a bit tough because the
blades really grab the wood and the carriage lurches forward. While there
are RAS blades made to help avoid this when simply cutting, I do not know
of a dado blade designed for the RAS.

Forrest make a great dado blade that works well on the RAS.

carriage lurches forward

The roller head bearings might be too loose and require adjustment. You
need to hold onto the motor with some positive control.

Correst, and if the saw is adjusted properly, there will be some smooth
resistance to the motor moving on the arm.

In addition, if the OP is considering a new Craftsman RAS, it has a
motorized cable attached to the motor that controls the feed rate and
prevents the "lurching".

-Doug

If that's all you are going to use it for, get a used one, there's
plenty of them out there. I have one from the 70's and have used it
for dado work in the past and its worked fine, but since they fall out
of alignment fairly easily, I have to re-square and realign it each
time. If you can find an old Dewalt from the 50's in good shape(prior
to the AMF acquisition) those are really sweet machines.

Mutt

(Keith) wrote in message . com...
I am considering buying a Craftsman RAS for mostly dado work. Does
anyone have any info thay can share about there experiences with the
Craftsman?

(Keith) wrote in message . com...
I am considering buying a Craftsman RAS for mostly dado work. Does
anyone have any info thay can share about there experiences with the
Craftsman?

There are far too make makes, models and years of Craftsman RAS's to
be able to answer that question. Are we talking a new machine ? If so,
what model - although that is immaterial to me as I wouldn't buy a new
Craftsman RAS - too many used ones on the market for small dollars. If
used, what year, make & model? In general, in my opinion, you can buy
or make a really nice router setup that will make far better dados
than a RAS. If set on a RAS, an older Delta (I believe) would be
better than the best Craftsman. If stuck on Craftsman, don't consider
anything from the 1980's - the 1960's are probably the best of the
group from what I have read. If you want a 1980's Craftsman RAS and
you are anywhere near Pittsburgh, PA, I can make you a nice deal on
mine after I blow off the dust.

Dave Hall

Hi Keith,

I bought a Craftsman RAS about 7-8 years ago. I also liked the idea of
being able to make a mark where you want a dado, then actually seeing
the blade line up with the mark - or run a narrow dado & creep up to
the width you need.

I also considered some other brands, but they were too much $ for me at
the time. Also, I got a great deal around the holidays by combining
sales & coupons - I think it was around $450 or so. I added their dust
collection (big gulp like) set-up and this grabs 95% of the sawdust.

When I assembled it, I was sort of surprised with how thick the
instruction book was - these saws have a lot of adjustments. It is the
only tool I have where I keep this book hanging next to the saw for
reference. Typically, I have to tweak it every 6 months or so.

I recently got a Freud 508 dado (8 inch) as an upgrade from an
adjustable dado that I used for years. I had/have no trouble using
either in the saw.

In summary, I think it is a pretty decent machine and worth having in
the shop.

Lou

In article , Keith
wrote:

I am considering buying a Craftsman RAS for mostly dado work. Does
anyone have any info thay can share about there experiences with the
Craftsman?

For the use you describe it would be fine. The best thing about the
Craftsman RAS is there are thousands of them on the used market. Barely a
week goes by, in our area, that one doesn't show up in the classifieds.
Occasionally you can pick one up, with a load of accessories, for $150 -
$200.

"Keith" wrote in message
om...
I am considering buying a Craftsman RAS for mostly dado work. Does
anyone have any info thay can share about there experiences with the
Craftsman?

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 10:31:26 -0600, "RonB" wrote:

For the use you describe it would be fine. The best thing about the
Craftsman RAS is there are thousands of them on the used market. Barely a
week goes by, in our area, that one doesn't show up in the classifieds.
Occasionally you can pick one up, with a load of accessories, for $150 -
$200.

"Keith" wrote in message
. com...
I am considering buying a Craftsman RAS for mostly dado work. Does
anyone have any info thay can share about there experiences with the
Craftsman?


True. Usual caveat: Check to see if it has been recalled. If so, the good
news is you get not only a new blade guard system but also a new table top
- free.

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 08:24:30 -0500, "Rumpty" wrote:

IME, crosscutting dados with my Craftsman RAS is a bit tough because the
blades really grab the wood and the carriage lurches forward. While there
are RAS blades made to help avoid this when simply cutting, I do not know
of a dado blade designed for the RAS.

Forrest make a great dado blade that works well on the RAS.

The standard Forrest dado blade or one for RASs?

carriage lurches forward

The roller head bearings might be too loose and require adjustment. You need
to hold onto the motor with some positive control.

I'll check. In any event, there is still a "tendency" to lurch inherent in
the way any blade works - though it is good to know that there is a way to
ameliorate it.

Sorry, I am looking at a Brand New Craftsman RAS. There only seems to
be one model on the Sears website. I also looked at the Delta 10" RAS,
but it received some bad reviews and the design makes it tougher to
use. The height adjustment is at the back of the saw instead of being
in the front. I would need to have this saw backed up to a wall in my
shop setup and changing height settings would be a pain. I currently
have a Jet table saw. I do a lot of furniture and bookcase type work.
I find it takes so much time to switch from the regular setup to the
dado and back. I also found similar problems with my router table that
is mounted to my table saw. I feel like I'm forever switching setups.
I would like to have one of the Delta 12" RAS's but I can't justify
the cost.

I have a Vermont American dado blade set that I use in my Craftsman RAS; it
will try to self-propel if you don't keep control, but it isn't too hard to
control, at least on things like plywood. A hardwood, like oak, might be
more trouble, but I usually use a router on such.

One complaint about the RAS is that the table isn't quite level. I would
like a dado to be the same depth at each end, another reason to use a
router.

Steve

"Rumpty" wrote in message
...
IME, crosscutting dados with my Craftsman RAS is a bit tough because the
blades really grab the wood and the carriage lurches forward. While there
are RAS blades made to help avoid this when simply cutting, I do not know
of a dado blade designed for the RAS.

Forrest make a great dado blade that works well on the RAS.

carriage lurches forward

The roller head bearings might be too loose and require adjustment. You
need
to hold onto the motor with some positive control.

--

Rumpty

Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


"igor" wrote in message
...
On 17 Nov 2004 20:01:02 -0800, (Keith) wrote:

I am considering buying a Craftsman RAS for mostly dado work. Does
anyone have any info thay can share about there experiences with the
Craftsman?

IME, crosscutting dados with my Craftsman RAS is a bit tough because the
blades really grab the wood and the carriage lurches forward. While
there
are RAS blades made to help avoid this when simply cutting, I do not know
of a dado blade designed for the RAS.

This you may know, as it applies to RAS in general: If the wood does not
sit flat on the TS when you cut a dado, the dado will be too shallow --
and
you can cut it again in the same piece of wood. Of course on the RAS if
the wood is not flat the dado is cut too deep. For example, if you are
ripping a dado on a long piece with the RAS and the wood is not supported
well, it can arch upwards along the way and you cut too deep. For that
matter, even crosscutting in a long piece can cause problems, but they
are
a bit easier to catch before you cut. So, you have to be plan
accordingly
to ensure that the wood is flat to the table.

All that being said, it can be much easier to cross-cut a bunch of dados
in
8' long pieces using an RAS than a TS. HTH. -- Igor

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 10:31:26 -0600, "RonB" wrote:

For the use you describe it would be fine. The best thing about the
Craftsman RAS is there are thousands of them on the used market. Barely a
week goes by, in our area, that one doesn't show up in the classifieds.
Occasionally you can pick one up, with a load of accessories, for $150 -
$200.

"Keith" wrote in message
. com...
I am considering buying a Craftsman RAS for mostly dado work. Does
anyone have any info thay can share about there experiences with the
Craftsman?

Second the idea of getting a used one. We have 2-3 in the paper every
Sunday at pretty good prices. (A lot more of them than table saws,
BTW)

However be aware that there was a recall of some Craftsman RAS over a
safety issue. I'd do a Google search for more information before I
went shopping.

--RC
Sleep? Isn't that a totally inadequate substitute for caffine?

One complaint about the RAS is that the table isn't quite level. I would
like a dado to be the same depth at each end, another reason to use a
router.


All tables can be adjusted so they are flat. Buy the Eakes book that shows
alignment for the Craftsman, Delta and DeWalt RAS's. Better yet, replace
the table with a 2 ply steel reinforced table like the Mr. Sawdust style
table. See http://www.mrsawdust.com

--

Rumpty

Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start

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"Steven and Gail Peterson" wrote in message
ink.net...
I have a Vermont American dado blade set that I use in my Craftsman RAS;
it
will try to self-propel if you don't keep control, but it isn't too hard
to
control, at least on things like plywood. A hardwood, like oak, might be
more trouble, but I usually use a router on such.

One complaint about the RAS is that the table isn't quite level. I would
like a dado to be the same depth at each end, another reason to use a
router.

Steve

"Rumpty" wrote in message
...
IME, crosscutting dados with my Craftsman RAS is a bit tough because
the
blades really grab the wood and the carriage lurches forward. While
there
are RAS blades made to help avoid this when simply cutting, I do not
know
of a dado blade designed for the RAS.

Forrest make a great dado blade that works well on the RAS.

carriage lurches forward

The roller head bearings might be too loose and require adjustment. You
need
to hold onto the motor with some positive control.

--

Rumpty

Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


"igor" wrote in message
...
On 17 Nov 2004 20:01:02 -0800, (Keith) wrote:

I am considering buying a Craftsman RAS for mostly dado work. Does
anyone have any info thay can share about there experiences with the
Craftsman?

IME, crosscutting dados with my Craftsman RAS is a bit tough because
the
blades really grab the wood and the carriage lurches forward. While
there
are RAS blades made to help avoid this when simply cutting, I do not
know
of a dado blade designed for the RAS.

This you may know, as it applies to RAS in general: If the wood does
not
sit flat on the TS when you cut a dado, the dado will be too shallow --
and
you can cut it again in the same piece of wood. Of course on the RAS
if
the wood is not flat the dado is cut too deep. For example, if you are
ripping a dado on a long piece with the RAS and the wood is not
supported
well, it can arch upwards along the way and you cut too deep. For that
matter, even crosscutting in a long piece can cause problems, but they
are
a bit easier to catch before you cut. So, you have to be plan
accordingly
to ensure that the wood is flat to the table.

All that being said, it can be much easier to cross-cut a bunch of
dados
in
8' long pieces using an RAS than a TS. HTH. -- Igor

So why have RAS's fallen so much out of favor? For cross cutting wood, it
seems so much easier to use than a table saw and I have the added bonus of
being able to put a sanding drum in the chuck on the back side. It just
seems so much easier to move the blade instead of some 10 ft long piece of
wood.


"RonB" wrote in message
news:x74nd.66598$EZ.63615@okepread07...
For the use you describe it would be fine. The best thing about the
Craftsman RAS is there are thousands of them on the used market. Barely a
week goes by, in our area, that one doesn't show up in the classifieds.
Occasionally you can pick one up, with a load of accessories, for $150 -
$200.

"Keith" wrote in message
om...
I am considering buying a Craftsman RAS for mostly dado work. Does
anyone have any info thay can share about there experiences with the
Craftsman?

On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 15:22:43 +0000, Curtis wrote:

So why have RAS's fallen so much out of favor? For cross cutting wood, it
seems so much easier to use than a table saw and I have the added bonus of
being able to put a sanding drum in the chuck on the back side. It just
seems so much easier to move the blade instead of some 10 ft long piece of
wood.

1) introduction of the CMS and SCMS and the portability issues.
2) most RAS's put into operation without proper setup and tuning leading
to all the inaccuracy and repeatability claims.
3) danger hysteria propoganda of the "radio alarm saw" usually spread by
those who have never owned one or if they have fall in category 2.

-Doug

There are more concerns. Ripping hardwood on the RAS is about the scariest
thing I do and I avoid it when I can. I also made an auxilliary fence for
mine. It clamps on the regular fence at right angles so I can rip by moving
the blade on pieces up to about 30" long (by flipping the piece and cutting
from each end). It sets up pretty quickly, but I have to square it every
time - keep a carpenters square nearby.

An advantage of the RAS is space. I don't have room for a table saw that
sits in the middle of the floor and needs room for infeed and outfeed. My
RAS sits quietly along the wall and leaves room for the car.

Steve

"Doug Winterburn" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 15:22:43 +0000, Curtis wrote:

So why have RAS's fallen so much out of favor? For cross cutting wood,
it
seems so much easier to use than a table saw and I have the added bonus
of
being able to put a sanding drum in the chuck on the back side. It just
seems so much easier to move the blade instead of some 10 ft long piece
of
wood.

1) introduction of the CMS and SCMS and the portability issues.
2) most RAS's put into operation without proper setup and tuning leading
to all the inaccuracy and repeatability claims.
3) danger hysteria propoganda of the "radio alarm saw" usually spread by
those who have never owned one or if they have fall in category 2.

-Doug

On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 16:19:26 +0000, Steven and Gail Peterson wrote:

There are more concerns. Ripping hardwood on the RAS is about the
scariest thing I do and I avoid it when I can.

Can you elaborate on what makes this a scary operation? I find it no
problem at all with holddown, splitter and anti-kickback pawls set
properly and feeding against the rotation of the blade and using push
sticks to finish cuts.

-Doug

In addition to what Doug mentions, correct alignment, proper blade (Forrest
WW1 with TCP profile) and addition of a long rip fence makes ripping a
breeze all day long.

For those who are interested, one of the best books on the market for
learning to use the RAS is the Mr. sawdust book "How To Master The Radial
Saw" by Walley Kunkel.

http://mrsawdust.com/

--

Rumpty

Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start

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"Doug Winterburn" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 16:19:26 +0000, Steven and Gail Peterson wrote:

There are more concerns. Ripping hardwood on the RAS is about the
scariest thing I do and I avoid it when I can.

Can you elaborate on what makes this a scary operation? I find it no
problem at all with holddown, splitter and anti-kickback pawls set
properly and feeding against the rotation of the blade and using push
sticks to finish cuts.

-Doug

Thanks for the info... my Dad recently gave me his old RAS and I find myself
using it much more than dragging out the 10" tablesaw I bought a while back
(which I'm generally happy with but I don't have space to keep it set up all
the time). I just called and ordered the safety kit someone else mentioned
in this thread. I'll have to check out this book as well.

"Rumpty" wrote in message
news
In addition to what Doug mentions, correct alignment, proper blade
(Forrest
WW1 with TCP profile) and addition of a long rip fence makes ripping a
breeze all day long.

For those who are interested, one of the best books on the market for
learning to use the RAS is the Mr. sawdust book "How To Master The Radial
Saw" by Walley Kunkel.

http://mrsawdust.com/

--

Rumpty

Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


"Doug Winterburn" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 16:19:26 +0000, Steven and Gail Peterson wrote:

There are more concerns. Ripping hardwood on the RAS is about the
scariest thing I do and I avoid it when I can.

Can you elaborate on what makes this a scary operation? I find it no
problem at all with holddown, splitter and anti-kickback pawls set
properly and feeding against the rotation of the blade and using push
sticks to finish cuts.

-Doug

On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 09:36:28 -0700, Doug Winterburn
wrote:

On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 16:19:26 +0000, Steven and Gail Peterson wrote:

There are more concerns. Ripping hardwood on the RAS is about the
scariest thing I do and I avoid it when I can.

Can you elaborate on what makes this a scary operation? I find it no
problem at all with holddown, splitter and anti-kickback pawls set
properly and feeding against the rotation of the blade and using push
sticks to finish cuts.

You've hit on the problem. Almost all of the scare posts I've seen
about RAS' wind up with the user having been so frightened
(unwarrantedly so) by the teeth moving toward them that they fed the
wood from the other side (climb cutting) which is at least 20, maybe
50 times more dangerous.

I, too, find it no problem...even without holddowns, although I always
used the splitter and anti-kickback device (all in one on my saw).


- -
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 23:52:43 +0000, LRod wrote:

You've hit on the problem. Almost all of the scare posts I've seen about
RAS' wind up with the user having been so frightened (unwarrantedly so) by
the teeth moving toward them that they fed the wood from the other side
(climb cutting) which is at least 20, maybe 50 times more dangerous.

I, too, find it no problem...even without holddowns, although I always
used the splitter and anti-kickback device (all in one on my saw).

I can't understand why TS teeth moving towards the operator are OK, but
RAS teeth are scary? Feeding with the rotation isn't just scary,
something or someone is going to be severely damaged!

The holddown I was referring to is the one on the rear of the blade guard.
On my old PowrKraft RAS, it was adjusted by rotating the guard until the
holddown was just above the workpiece and then locking the guard in place.
On the current Craftsman RAS, the holddown on the rear of the guard has a
lock knob that allows it to be adjusted just above the workpiece and
locked - the guard itself doesn't move. In either case, the holddown
prevents the workpiece from being lifted by the rising teeth when starting
the rip as the workpiece is fed from what is the rear of the guard for a
crosscut operation.

-Doug

-Doug

Doug,

What blade do you use on your RAS?

--

Rumpty

Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start

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On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 20:38:23 -0500, Rumpty wrote:

Doug,

What blade do you use on your RAS?

Since I got the Craftsman RAS, I've been using the blade that came with it
- a 40 tooth carbide tipped neg hook. Part #926792, which I can't find on
their web site. It seems to be a fairly good blade.

Prior, I was using a Freud 60 tooth blade - pos hook part #LU82M01D. It
is a good blade and I had no trouble with it on the RAS, even with the
positive hook. It's rated for TS, CMS, RAS. I like it a lot - very
smooth.

I do prefer the full kerf blades as they seem to give a smoother cut.

-Doug

In article ,
Doug Winterburn wrote:

On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 20:38:23 -0500, Rumpty wrote:

Doug,

What blade do you use on your RAS?

Since I got the Craftsman RAS, I've been using the blade that came with it
- a 40 tooth carbide tipped neg hook. Part #926792, which I can't find on
their web site. It seems to be a fairly good blade.

Prior, I was using a Freud 60 tooth blade - pos hook part #LU82M01D. It
is a good blade and I had no trouble with it on the RAS, even with the
positive hook. It's rated for TS, CMS, RAS. I like it a lot - very
smooth.

I do prefer the full kerf blades as they seem to give a smoother cut.

-Doug

I think I found that blade at Sears Hardware yesterday on clearance for
$17. It was part # 926797. It had identical markings to the blade on
the RAS in the store. Neutral to negative hook and feed-control
shoulders (look like depth gages on chainsaw blades.) I wonder if Sears
is going to let the RAS go the way of the dinosaur.

Keep in mind that Sears was asking about $500-$600 for the RAS and
between $150-250 for most 10"-12" compound miter saws. The CMSs' can do
90% of the cuts the I usually do on the RAS. My Dad taught me how to
set up the RAS. The 10% of the cuts it can do which the CMSs' can't are
rather spectacular in their utility and shear terror. The RAS is
dangerous in ways the TS just isn't (climb & cross cut thumb) and
completely docile in way the TS is a nightmare (it just doesn't throw
things at you and the temptation to shove your hand into the blade on
the cut isn't there). I have ripped 8' sheet goods on the RAS before.
It presents a different set of issues to overcome that the TS. The
fence is longer, (probably truer than the old craftsman TS fence) and
the table is aligned along the cutting axis on the RAS.

The old 60 tooth combo blade I had on the RAS had WAY too much hook for
safety. I caught it climbing more often that I cared for. Back on the
table saw it goes. There are many small projects where the RAS is just
tons more handy to me than the TS is. This could be because the TS is
on a roller base and usually stays tucked below the right side of the
RAS. Cutting 12' stock on the RAS is a no brainer. Cutting it on the
cross cut sled on the TS takes a day of planning ahead. I've had the
cross cut sled half way across the TS when it decided to stop sliding.
That's an Aw **** sort of moment. The RAS never stops sliding :-)

--
Dana Miller

On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 18:03:03 -0700, Doug Winterburn
wrote:

I can't understand why TS teeth moving towards the operator are OK, but
RAS teeth are scary?

TS teeth move forwards and down, holding the wood down onto the table.
RAS teeth move forwards and up, lifting the wood off the table. You're
reliant on the additional hold downs, not just a big trustworthy lump
of iron.

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 02:58:03 +0000, Andy Dingley wrote:

On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 18:03:03 -0700, Doug Winterburn
wrote:

I can't understand why TS teeth moving towards the operator are OK, but
RAS teeth are scary?

TS teeth move forwards and down, holding the wood down onto the table. RAS
teeth move forwards and up, lifting the wood off the table. You're reliant
on the additional hold downs, not just a big trustworthy lump of iron.

No additional hold downs. There's a standard hold down built into the
blade guard, even on old RAS'. Yes, it does have to be adjusted for the
thickness of the workpiece for rip operations. Not a big problem and
taking around 5 seconds. And, the workpiece is under the hold down
*before* it comes in contact with the blade. Do you adjust the blade
height on the TS depending on the thickness of the workpiece? I do. Is a
RAS an "untrustworthy" lump of iron?

-Doug

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 20:11:46 -0700, Doug Winterburn
wrote:

No additional hold downs.

There's a hold-down, not a table -- some extra applied gadget and thus
less simple and trustworthy than a table. It also relies on being
adjusted for thickness.

Do you adjust the blade height on the TS depending on the thickness of the workpiece? I do.

No, I always use the blade at full height. This is the big advantage
of the TS for ripping - I can use my blade so that the timber passes
through it with the blade travelling vertically and almost all no
horizontal drag forces.

--
Smert' spamionam

(Keith) wrote in message . com...
I am considering buying a Craftsman RAS for mostly dado work. Does
anyone have any info thay can share about there experiences with the
Craftsman?

Keith,

One point unmentioned, so far, is: Make your last vertical adjustment
going up to take the slop out of the column gear. Otherwise, you can
risk the blade dropping too deep and ruining your cut. This is more of
an issue, obviously, on a non-throughcut such as a dado.

As several other posters mentioned, there are billions of these out
there on the used market. I have a 1979 Craftsman 10" ,which did have
the recall parts available, and a 1975 Delta 14". I bought both used
and spent less than $200 combined. The nice thing about the Deltas is
that the turret allows virtually 360 degree cutting. The Craftsman is
limited to about 45 to 48 degrees. It would seem that the most sought
after brand is Dewalt. You could save yourself hundreds by buying
used.

Somebody already mentioned "Mr Sawdust's" book by Wally Kunkel. Also,
get yourself a copy of Radial Arm Saw Techniques by Roger Cliff. It is
an excellent resource. It is not in print anymore, but shows up on
ebay and Amazon Marketplace.

Also, you can use the RAS as a shaper. I wouldn't. Routers have come a
really long way and are probably much safer. YMMV.

Good luck,

Eric

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 11:55:15 +0000, Andy Dingley wrote:

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 20:11:46 -0700, Doug Winterburn
wrote:

No additional hold downs.

There's a hold-down, not a table -- some extra applied gadget and thus
less simple and trustworthy than a table. It also relies on being adjusted
for thickness.

What extra gadgert? You consider blade guards, splitters, antikickback
pawls as extra gadgets?

Do you adjust the blade height on the TS depending on the thickness of
the workpiece? I do.

No, I always use the blade at full height. This is the big advantage of
the TS for ripping - I can use my blade so that the timber passes
through it with the blade travelling vertically and almost all no
horizontal drag forces.

Sorry, but the experts such as Kelly Mehler, Nick Engler & others disagree
with you. Kelly & Nick suggest the blade be adjusted between 1/8" and
1/4" above the workpiece. And what about non through and dado cuts? Oh,
that's right - you aren't allowed to use those dangerous devices.

And you didn't answer the question about the trustworthiness of a RAS.

-Doug

The "safety" of the RAS during ripping IMO depends more on the correct
blade than on the guard nose being positioned properly as well as the
kickback pawl. The Forrest WW1 blade with the TCP profile really performs
in the rip. It has a positive hook which gives you decent feed rates. Also
correct ripping procedures are important too, such as using a push board
when ripping narrow pieces etc.

--

Rumpty

Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 18:03:03 -0700, Doug Winterburn
wrote:

I can't understand why TS teeth moving towards the operator are OK, but
RAS teeth are scary?

TS teeth move forwards and down, holding the wood down onto the table.
RAS teeth move forwards and up, lifting the wood off the table. You're
reliant on the additional hold downs, not just a big trustworthy lump
of iron.

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 07:42:13 -0700, Doug Winterburn
wrote:

What extra gadgert? You consider blade guards, splitters, antikickback
pawls as extra gadgets?

Compared to a table, then yes.

I'd be happier if my cast iron table was actually just a plain rock,
as was good enough for my ancestors thousands of years ago. However
ditching the moving parts isn't a bad start, and ditching a part that
has a safety-critical adjustment that needs setting before each piece
of timber is certainly a good idea in my book.

No, I always use the blade at full height. This is the big advantage of
the TS for ripping - I can use my blade so that the timber passes
through it with the blade travelling vertically and almost all no
horizontal drag forces.

Sorry, but the experts such as Kelly Mehler, Nick Engler & others disagree
with you.

So what ? There are an equal number of "experts" who argue it the
other way. I find their arguments more convincing.

Kelly & Nick suggest the blade be adjusted between 1/8" and
1/4" above the workpiece.

That's just silly - maybe the gullet root should be that low, but
setting it on the tooth tip isn't going to clear the chips properly.

So why set the blade low ? It reduces the Scary Whirling Death Blade,
but the best ways to stop that being a problem are to keep your
fingers out, and to use a crown guard. In terms of cutting
performance, it's a bad idea on every count.

Why set the blade high ? - because it reduces kickback risk. This is
good - I can't "keep my hands away" from kickback, and I can't really
build a guard against it.

And what about non through and dado cuts? Oh,
that's right - you aren't allowed to use those dangerous devices.

Of course we're allowed to do them. Here in Evil Pinko Europe (motto:
a uniformed nanny in every nursery) we celebrated the fall of the
Berlin Wall by performing dado cuts through old statues of Stalin.
Why do people keep thinking that Europeans aren't "allowed" dado
heads?

On the whole I like our HSE. I can think of some really stupid rules
(Article P) coming in on wiring from other government agencies, but
the industrial safety people offer good advice and have never put
forward any rule or requirement that I've ever seen as pointless or
excessive.

--
Smert' spamionam

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 17:04:44 +0000, Andy Dingley wrote:

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 07:42:13 -0700, Doug Winterburn
wrote:

What extra gadgert? You consider blade guards, splitters, antikickback
pawls as extra gadgets?

Compared to a table, then yes.

I'd be happier if my cast iron table was actually just a plain rock, as
was good enough for my ancestors thousands of years ago. However ditching
the moving parts isn't a bad start, and ditching a part that has a
safety-critical adjustment that needs setting before each piece of timber
is certainly a good idea in my book.

Why would I adjust before each piece? If I'm cutting 4/4 stock, I set the
saw up and cut all the stock


No, I always use the blade at full height. This is the big advantage
of the TS for ripping - I can use my blade so that the timber passes
through it with the blade travelling vertically and almost all no
horizontal drag forces.

Sorry, but the experts such as Kelly Mehler, Nick Engler & others
disagree with you.

So what ? There are an equal number of "experts" who argue it the other
way. I find their arguments more convincing.

Your choice. As for me, Kelly, Nick or Andy's unnamed experts - I think
I'll follow Kelly and Nicks advice.


Kelly & Nick suggest the blade be adjusted between 1/8" and 1/4" above
the workpiece.

That's just silly - maybe the gullet root should be that low, but
setting it on the tooth tip isn't going to clear the chips properly.

That's really silly. Are you suggesting the chips that are in the gullets
must somehow be carried below the table, around and back up before they
can be expelled over the top of the workpiece at the operator?


So why set the blade low ? It reduces the Scary Whirling Death Blade,
but the best ways to stop that being a problem are to keep your fingers
out, and to use a crown guard. In terms of cutting performance, it's a
bad idea on every count.

No argument on the guard - I use that "gadget" whenever possible.


Why set the blade high ? - because it reduces kickback risk. This is
good - I can't "keep my hands away" from kickback, and I can't really
build a guard against it.

The main cause of kickback is the rear of the blade lifting the workpiece,
and the higher the blade, the more vertical the rear blade motion.
Sorry, I don't buy your argument.


And what about non through and dado cuts? Oh,
that's right - you aren't allowed to use those dangerous devices.

Of course we're allowed to do them. Here in Evil Pinko Europe (motto: a
uniformed nanny in every nursery) we celebrated the fall of the Berlin
Wall by performing dado cuts through old statues of Stalin. Why do
people keep thinking that Europeans aren't "allowed" dado heads?

Maybe because of the (mis)perception that Yurpeen saws are only available
with short arbors?

-Doug

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 10:37:18 -0700, Doug Winterburn
wrote:

The main cause of kickback is the rear of the blade lifting the workpiece,
and the higher the blade, the more vertical the rear blade motion.

That's a risk, but it's a risk that's easy to deal with. Over the
width of the blade it's balanced front and back, so the force your
hold-down needs to provide is much less than it would to resist the
unbalanced forward forces from a blade that's rubbing on the upper
portion of the blade.

It's also notable that rear-blade lifting doesn't cause kickback
itself, what it causes is lifting the blade into contact with the area
that does then kick it (admittedly by this point the blade will have
increased any skewing it might have, which also makes the drag worse).
I'd like to keep my timber away as much as possible from the really
dangerous area - the patch near the top of the blade where the forward
forces are largest.

If you have a kickback near-miss on a high blade, it's _very_ evident
that the blade starts to lift the timber with a small force, then may
(if you're unlucky) push it forwards with a much greater force. This
is another reason why low splitters aren't much use - if the timber
does lift off them, the timber closes up and suddenly grabs. I can
feel a small amount of drag before it's a problem and just hold the
timber down or kill the saw, but with a sudden impulse it's going to
fly before I notice.

I've had a bad week for kickbacks to be honest - it's near freezing in
the workshop and clearly the saw table has contracted. My fence is now
dragging and the tail end is going out of square unless I'm careful
about the setup.
--
Smert' spamionam