On Sun, 27 Sep 2015 10:07:35 -0400, Jack wrote:

On 9/25/2015 12:49 PM, krw wrote:

...backed up by a self-selected sample of 10 (to "prove" a conclusion
you're already made). ...and you call me an idiot.

Idiot.

OK, it's unanimous, you're an idiot.

I observed no one using Festools on work sites. Since I don't spend my
life observing work sites, I asked people who do spend all their work
time at job sites.

A whole ten of them. You didn't even bother to sample in more than one
location. Even the political surveys do a better job.

This added to my observation. Next, another guy that
does spend his workday on job sites, in another part of the country,
also noticed no one using Festools. This also added weight to my
observations.. Next, the number one promoter of Festools on this site,
stated his guess is 1 in 200 professionals use Festools. I don't put
much weight in that, as it is at best an assumption, or guess, but his
opinion is valuable, based on his experience. My guess would be more
like 1 in 50, maybe 1 in 100, but that is only based on a guess. I'm
reasonably certain that there use is much less common that other
quality, yet much cheaper tools.

From ten people, you *jumped* to the conclusion that Festool was only
used by hobbyists. That is *really* dumb. Stupid, in fact.

It was a jab at your asinine illogic, which you continue defend like a
true idiot.

I'm sorry, I guess I should pay more attention to what you, a hobbyist
that can't cut a straight line, and an idiot, has to say on the subject
than my first hand observations along with comments from seasoned
professionals that do this stuff for a living. My bad.

I really didn't expect you to be smart enough to be able to read. I'm
not at all surprised.

If you say so, I guess it must be... Idiot!

Yes, and you continue to prove it.

Yes, by continuing to discuss this with an idiot. I'll try to button up
and ignore your rambling, senseless, and often caustic babble.

Indeed I am continuing to discuss this with a total idiot. ...too
damn dumb to even see how stupid his argument is. ...and digging ever
deeper.

On 9/27/2015 9:25 AM, Jack wrote:
On 9/25/2015 10:52 AM, Leon wrote:
On 9/25/2015 9:15 AM, Jack wrote:

I think Festool should hire Leon and fire Scott, at least their tools
would be used correctly and people might learn the right way to do
things.

;~) He is sort of a putz woodworker, he and that guy that had a show
and insistently called his SCMS a RAS. IIRC he is/was also a spokesman
for Minwax.

Yes, he is a putz woodworker. Now he has his wife working with him,
wow, two putzes on one show. They both seem like nice people though,
but I guess being a skilled woodworker isn't what a TV show on woodwork
is all about, at least in this case.

The guy I like is the guy that does the Wood Turning Workshop. His
skill level isn't all that, but he brings some really good guests, and
his personality I like. He doesn't claim to be all knowing and often
takes jabs at his abilities, and has a relaxed presentation. I like that.


I'm not familiar with that show, where do you see it.
I kind'a enjoyed the the Router Workshop too but the lack of
cutting/editing scenes where they would make 30~40 passes on as many
pieces of wood got tiring.

On 9/27/2015 9:42 AM, Jack wrote:
On 9/26/2015 6:24 PM, Swingman wrote:

Wouldn't be quite so bad if folks would just learn to trim quotes,
instead of quoting half a dozen entire posts.

Amen to that. The only time I do it is when someone keeps quoting
unneeded pages, and I'll do it back to them, stupidly thinking it will
show them the light or **** them off. I don't think it does any good,
but I'll do it if I'm in a grumpy enough mood.



I simply for get to do that and then some one is always unhappy. LOL

Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:


I'm not familiar with that show, where do you see it.
I kind'a enjoyed the the Router Workshop too but the lack of
cutting/editing scenes where they would make 30~40 passes on as many
pieces of wood got tiring.


Your PBS station might not carry it. Mine did or does. I just never got
in to Woodturning Workshop.

You may be able to stream it from your PBS affiliate, or check Create.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

On Saturday, September 26, 2015 at 5:25:08 PM UTC-5, Swingman wrote:

Wouldn't be quite so bad if folks would just learn to trim quotes,
instead of quoting half a dozen entire posts.

Well now Karl... if that happened the people ****ing on one another might not have any excuse when they splash on someone else. How many of these threads are derailed because someone gets butt hurt because they thought someone was doubting their expertise, then only to find that lost in pages of commentary the offensive comments weren't aimed at them, or may not even be taken in context?

It certainly hasn't escaped the old hands here (including those that abandoned ship long ago) that the longest threads have nothing to do with woodworking. The most active and longest threads are always people fighting with one another about their personal opinions.

Robert

Jack wrote:


Amen to that. The only time I do it is when someone keeps quoting
unneeded pages, and I'll do it back to them, stupidly thinking it will
show them the light or **** them off. I don't think it does any good,
but I'll do it if I'm in a grumpy enough mood.

Nobody here ever gets in grumpy moods...

--

-Mike-

Leon wrote:
On 9/27/2015 9:42 AM, Jack wrote:
On 9/26/2015 6:24 PM, Swingman wrote:

Wouldn't be quite so bad if folks would just learn to trim quotes,
instead of quoting half a dozen entire posts.

Amen to that. The only time I do it is when someone keeps quoting
unneeded pages, and I'll do it back to them, stupidly thinking it
will show them the light or **** them off. I don't think it does
any good, but I'll do it if I'm in a grumpy enough mood.



I simply for get to do that and then some one is always unhappy. LOL

Owing to the fact that I was one of the day one internet guys, back in the
day of dial up when "fast" had completely different definition, you quickly
learned to trim or to incur the wrath of everyone else that had a network
connection it seemed. Back then downloads were a real thing to be concerned
about, so excess text - though it was only text, was a hot item. After all
those years, it is just second nature to immediately snip when composing a
reply. Don't even have to think about it. I don't want to get yelled at
again by the ghosts of all those guys...

--

-Mike-

Mike Marlow wrote:


Owing to the fact that I was one of the day one internet guys, back
in the day of dial up when "fast" had completely different
definition, you quickly learned to trim or to incur the wrath of
everyone else that had a network connection it seemed. Back then
downloads were a real thing to be concerned about, so excess text -
though it was only text, was a hot item. After all those years, it
is just second nature to immediately snip when composing a reply. Don't
even have to think about it. I don't want to get yelled at
again by the ghosts of all those guys...

Oh yeah - and back then you'd really get scalded if you did not include the
text (snipped) that you were replying to. Today with we based forums,
that's almost gone by the wayside and a lot of stupid people just can't
grasp the notion of context. Sigh...

--

-Mike-

"Mike Marlow" wrote in
:


Oh yeah - and back then you'd really get scalded if you did not
include the text (snipped) that you were replying to. Today with we
based forums, that's almost gone by the wayside and a lot of stupid
people just can't grasp the notion of context. Sigh...


Trouble is, those are the idiots who are doing the programming! Yahoo!
Groups is terrible about this, and many of the iPhone email messages I get
don't have quoted text, which tells me it's off by default.

Too bad we can't make them spend a few months in the old days of Usenet,
just to learn proper context and quoting.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

"Mike Marlow" wrote in
:

I don't want to get yelled at again by the ghosts of all
those guys...

Dammit Mike, did you have to include 3 whole quoted posts?

:-)

John

Puckdropper puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote in
eb.com:

Trouble is, those are the idiots who are doing the programming!
Yahoo! Groups is terrible about this, and many of the iPhone email
messages I get don't have quoted text, which tells me it's off by
default.

I have seen people say that quoting can't be done on the
iPhone/iPad, which tells me that if it can, it's not easy
(it's probably a Jobs thing - he wasn't interested in
anyone's thoughts other than his own).

I don't think including context is possible in Yahoo Groups
if you reply in the Group. You have to do it in email.
Altho Yahoo seems determined to make Yahoo mail totally
disfunctional, so maybe you can't do it there, either,
now-a-days.

John

John McCoy wrote in
:

Puckdropper puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote in
eb.com:

Trouble is, those are the idiots who are doing the programming!
Yahoo! Groups is terrible about this, and many of the iPhone email
messages I get don't have quoted text, which tells me it's off by
default.

I have seen people say that quoting can't be done on the
iPhone/iPad, which tells me that if it can, it's not easy
(it's probably a Jobs thing - he wasn't interested in
anyone's thoughts other than his own).

It's easy. Simply store the old message in memory, then write it in the
text box before you display it to the user. The hardest part is rewrapping
the message to include the "". If you have a decent header, the need to
use the greater-than character is debatable.

I don't think including context is possible in Yahoo Groups
if you reply in the Group. You have to do it in email.
Altho Yahoo seems determined to make Yahoo mail totally
disfunctional, so maybe you can't do it there, either,
now-a-days.

John


It is possible. When you reply to a message, click "show message history"
at the bottom of the text box. It might be below the fold, so you may have
to scroll to see it.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

On 9/27/2015 1:43 PM, wrote:

It certainly hasn't escaped the old hands here (including those that abandoned ship long ago) that the longest threads have nothing to do with woodworking. The most active and longest threads are always people fighting with one another about their personal opinions.

The Bennett wars were certainly epic ... even got caught in the
crossfire myself.

TMITD another.

Kinda miss BAD, and Apeman ...

And damn, I really miss Robatoy.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On Monday, September 28, 2015 at 6:45:25 PM UTC-5, Swingman wrote:
The Bennett wars were certainly epic ... even got caught in the
crossfire myself.

TMITD another.

Kinda miss BAD, and Apeman ...

And damn, I really miss Robatoy.

Sigh... yep. Good 'ol Roberto. Loved to stir the pot, but was a fountain of great information. I miss his wit.

Robert

On 9/29/2015 12:48 AM, wrote:
On Monday, September 28, 2015 at 6:45:25 PM UTC-5, Swingman wrote:
The Bennett wars were certainly epic ... even got caught in the
crossfire myself.

TMITD another.

Kinda miss BAD, and Apeman ...

And damn, I really miss Robatoy.

Sigh... yep. Good 'ol Roberto. Loved to stir the pot, but was a fountain of great information. I miss his wit.

Robert


You know all this Festool stuff can be traced right back to him. ;~)
I recall him pointing me to a European YouTube video showing their new
Domino being used by their tradesmen a year or two before they were
available here.

I'm quite certain Festool was here long before that as Robert/Robatoy
could never say enough about the Rotex sander that he used to sand and
polish his counter tops.. IIRC he was on his second one.

He was my pusher that helped me see the light.

On Tuesday, September 29, 2015 at 8:47:50 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:


I'm quite certain Festool was here long before that as Robert/Robatoy
could never say enough about the Rotex sander that he used to sand and
polish his counter tops.. IIRC he was on his second one.

He was my pusher that helped me see the light.

Doing the work I do, we had some entertaining conversations about buying the Fein oscillating tool. He had one that he bought after much consideration, and he loved it. I never could justify the tool (15 - 20 years ago blades were still $25 each on average) and he couldn't see how I could live without it. He used his constantly. After I bought my first inexpensive model, I couldn't either.

Then we had a some great conversation and there was a lot of consternation about the great biscuit debate that swelled up here on occasion. He used a Lamello A LOT, and he was the only one I knew that used the absolute daylights out of a biscuit machine at that time. He used them to align and join some of his work where connectors couldn't be used. Until Rob described it (and was actually doing it regularly) I would never have thought of joining two perpendicular surfaces with biscuits. Like me, he found through practical experience the biscuit added a great deal to certain types of joinery.

He was the first one I knew that had a 23ga. pinner. Honestly, with no heads on the pins I had difficult figuring out what to do with one of those, even if I had one. He was applying different moldings, finishing pieces and all other kinds of appliques to work on occasion and he gave the run down on it. He had a Grex (sp?) long before they even sold them down here.

I don't know how he did it, but he always seem to be right on top of any kind of tool innovations, especially those with any value. I too remember his delight with the Rotex sander, and being a champion of that tool. I used a Bosch sander at that time that was 90% of the Festool for 20% of the price. I had to have a shop vac attached to mine to sand inside an occupied home and got a little dust, and he had the Festool with a shop vac (don't recall it being a Festool, but some other Euro brand)and got no dust. I remember that he used the Rotex long and hard enough to actually kill it, and he was kind of pleased with himself for that.

Gone too soon...

Robert

On 9/29/2015 9:54 AM, wrote:
On Tuesday, September 29, 2015 at 8:47:50 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:


I'm quite certain Festool was here long before that as
Robert/Robatoy could never say enough about the Rotex sander that
he used to sand and polish his counter tops.. IIRC he was on his
second one.

He was my pusher that helped me see the light.

Doing the work I do, we had some entertaining conversations about
buying the Fein oscillating tool. He had one that he bought after
much consideration, and he loved it. I never could justify the tool
(15 - 20 years ago blades were still $25 each on average) and he
couldn't see how I could live without it. He used his constantly.
After I bought my first inexpensive model, I couldn't either.

I don't think it was that long ago, I bought a 3 Pack for $72 in 2006.
Anyway thank goodness that the patent ran out and competition brought
the prices down.

Then we had a some great conversation and there was a lot of
consternation about the great biscuit debate that swelled up here on
occasion. He used a Lamello A LOT, and he was the only one I knew
that used the absolute daylights out of a biscuit machine at that
time. He used them to align and join some of his work where
connectors couldn't be used. Until Rob described it (and was
actually doing it regularly) I would never have thought of joining
two perpendicular surfaces with biscuits. Like me, he found through
practical experience the biscuit added a great deal to certain types
of joinery.

I started using biscuits in 1989. I gutted and rebuilt the kitchen in
our other home and used what I thought to be a load of biscuits. I
recall buying #20's in boxes of a thousand a couple of times. Thinking
of today, I am on the verge of buying my 3rd box of 5mm 1,800 count
Dominoes and I am about in the middle of a 6mm replacement box.



He was the first one I knew that had a 23ga. pinner. Honestly, with
no heads on the pins I had difficult figuring out what to do with one
of those, even if I had one. He was applying different moldings,
finishing pieces and all other kinds of appliques to work on occasion
and he gave the run down on it. He had a Grex (sp?) long before they
even sold them down here.

Karl turned me on the the 23 gauge pinner. I bought a Grex about 7~8
years ago. I love that thing and use it more often than I expected.
IIRC it came with 1,000 pins in each size/length that it would shoot.
I have bought 3 replacement boxes of 10K in different lengths. They are
great at replacing a clamp on light glue ups.



I don't know how he did it, but he always seem to be right on top of
any kind of tool innovations, especially those with any value.

That he was!


I too
remember his delight with the Rotex sander, and being a champion of
that tool. I used a Bosch sander at that time that was 90% of the
Festool for 20% of the price. I had to have a shop vac attached to
mine to sand inside an occupied home and got a little dust, and he
had the Festool with a shop vac (don't recall it being a Festool, but
some other Euro brand)and got no dust.

IIRC a Fein

In 2008 I refaced a neighbors kitchen. I cut my own 1/8" thick maple
veneer for the cabinets and built the maple doors. He was retired and
at home when I came back to sand the joints of the veneer. I used my a
pinner to hold the veneers while the glue dried, regular wood glue not
contact cement. Anyway before I got there he had masked off all the
cabinet openings with newspaper, card board, and tape. He said he would
wipe the counters down and mop after I sanded. I sanded with the Rotex
and with the FT finish sander along with the FT vac while he took a nap.
I was finished long before his hour nap was over and he could not
believe that there was no visible dust.




I remember that he used the
Rotex long and hard enough to actually kill it, and he was kind of
pleased with himself for that.

Gone too soon...

Truly





Robert

On 9/27/2015 11:09 AM, Leon wrote:

The guy I like is the guy that does the Wood Turning Workshop.

I'm not familiar with that show, where do you see it.
I kind'a enjoyed the the Router Workshop too but the lack of
cutting/editing scenes where they would make 30~40 passes on as many
pieces of wood got tiring.

It's on PBS around here. Been all repeats for a good while, so I don't
know if it's still being made. I never heard of the Router Workshop. We
also get Scott Phillips and Tommy Mac. Only thing Mac does is assemble
stuff, uses a hand plane, and uses too much glue immediately
after warning people not to use too much glue. He gets glue all over
everything. Pretty amazing.

I tape the woodworking stuff on PBS and "watch" it when I go to bed
(puts me to sleep), so I only have to scroll through the PBS commercials
at the beginning of the show, instead of every 10 minutes on commercial tv.

--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com