hey guys, i am looking to purchase a new table saw.......have a 10 year
old craftsman contractor saw and need to upgrade. i will have to put it
into my basement with limited space, so looking for decent contractor saw.
This Grizzly http://www.grizzly.com/products/Cont...tyle-Saw/G0732
is the saw i am leaning towards purchasing. are there any better options in
this price range? tia

On 3/4/2014 10:28 PM, wrote:
hey guys, i am looking to purchase a new table saw.......have a 10 year
old craftsman contractor saw and need to upgrade. i will have to put it
into my basement with limited space, so looking for decent contractor saw.
This Grizzly http://www.grizzly.com/products/Cont...tyle-Saw/G0732
is the saw i am leaning towards purchasing. are there any better options in
this price range? tia

Go for a hybrid.
It will at least control dust more easily.
And this has more upgrades, fence, weight,



--
Jeff

On 3/4/2014 10:39 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 3/4/2014 10:28 PM, wrote:
hey guys, i am looking to purchase a new table saw.......have a 10 year
old craftsman contractor saw and need to upgrade. i will have to put it
into my basement with limited space, so looking for decent contractor
saw.
This Grizzly http://www.grizzly.com/products/Cont...tyle-Saw/G0732
is the saw i am leaning towards purchasing. are there any better
options in
this price range? tia

Go for a hybrid.
It will at least control dust more easily.
And this has more upgrades, fence, weight,



http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-H...Series-/G0715P

--
Jeff

wrote:

hey guys, i am looking to purchase a new table saw.......have a 10
year
old craftsman contractor saw and need to upgrade. i will have to
put it
into my basement with limited space, so looking for decent
contractor saw.
This Grizzly
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Cont...tyle-Saw/G0732
is the saw i am leaning towards purchasing. are there any better
options in
this price range?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
In this day and age you owe it to yourself to take a serious look at
SawStop products.

There are several on the wrec who have purchased SawStop within the
last
5 years who can comment on specifics.

http://tinyurl.com/m56fx57


Have fun


Lew

On 3/4/14, 9:39 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 3/4/2014 10:39 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 3/4/2014 10:28 PM, wrote:
hey guys, i am looking to purchase a new table saw.......have a
10 year old craftsman contractor saw and need to upgrade. i will
have to put it into my basement with limited space, so looking
for decent contractor saw. This Grizzly
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Cont...tyle-Saw/G0732 is the
saw i am leaning towards purchasing. are there any better
options in this price range? tia

Go for a hybrid. It will at least control dust more easily. And
this has more upgrades, fence, weight,



http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-H...Series-/G0715P




That's what I was going to suggest. For only $150 more, it's a heck of
a lot more saw.
The contractor one in your original link isn't any better than the
Ridgid from Home Depot which can be found for under $500.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Update:

This is a better link:

http://tinyurl.com/cz2lu

Lew
---------------------------------------------------------
"Lew Hodgett" wrote:

wrote:

hey guys, i am looking to purchase a new table saw.......have a
10 year
old craftsman contractor saw and need to upgrade. i will have to
put it
into my basement with limited space, so looking for decent
contractor saw.
This Grizzly
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Cont...tyle-Saw/G0732
is the saw i am leaning towards purchasing. are there any better
options in
this price range?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
In this day and age you owe it to yourself to take a serious look at
SawStop products.

There are several on the wrec who have purchased SawStop within the
last
5 years who can comment on specifics.

http://tinyurl.com/m56fx57


Have fun


Lew

On 3/5/14, 12:09 AM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
Update:

This is a better link:

http://tinyurl.com/cz2lu

Lew
---------------------------------------------------------

You needed tinyurl for http://www.sawstop.com?


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Wed, 05 Mar 2014 00:04:55 -0600, -MIKE- wrote:

The contractor one in your original link isn't any better than the
Ridgid from Home Depot which can be found for under $500.

Beat me to it - and HD has a better warranty.

For something in between the prices, look at:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Steel-City-3...el-Contractor-
Table-Saw-30-T-Square-Fence-/400664027000?_trksid=p2054897.l4275

The table mounted trunnions alone are worth the price differential.

--
Where have all the flowers gone? Pete Seeger 1919-2014

I'm pretty happy with my Delta hybrid, which I have had for about eight years. IIRC, it has a 1.75 hp motor and mine is running on 110v. The only time I wish I had more oomph is ripping 2-inch hardwood; otherwise it handles everything nicely. When I bought it from Amazon there was an option to upgrade to a Biesemeyer fence, but I stayed with the Delta. Plan on a 3rd party miter gauge.

Larry

On Tuesday, March 4, 2014 9:28:34 PM UTC-6, wrote:
hey guys, i am looking to purchase a new table saw.......have a 10 year

old craftsman contractor saw and need to upgrade. i will have to put it

into my basement with limited space, so looking for decent contractor saw..

This Grizzly http://www.grizzly.com/products/Cont...tyle-Saw/G0732

is the saw i am leaning towards purchasing. are there any better options in

this price range? tia

On Wed, 5 Mar 2014 03:28:34 GMT, wrote:

hey guys, i am looking to purchase a new table saw.......have a 10 year
old craftsman contractor saw and need to upgrade. i will have to put it
into my basement with limited space, so looking for decent contractor saw.
This Grizzly http://www.grizzly.com/products/Cont...tyle-Saw/G0732
is the saw i am leaning towards purchasing. are there any better options in
this price range? tia

In the past Grizzly's in this price range have used a throat plate
that was of thin material that hard to use a zero clearance plate. If
that is an issue to you then you might want to check into that.

On 3/5/2014 12:09 AM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
Update:

This is a better link:

http://tinyurl.com/cz2lu

Lew
---------------------------------------------------------
"Lew Hodgett" wrote:

wrote:

hey guys, i am looking to purchase a new table saw.......have a
10 year
old craftsman contractor saw and need to upgrade. i will have to
put it
into my basement with limited space, so looking for decent
contractor saw.
This Grizzly
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Cont...tyle-Saw/G0732
is the saw i am leaning towards purchasing. are there any better
options in
this price range?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
In this day and age you owe it to yourself to take a serious look at
SawStop products.

There are several on the wrec who have purchased SawStop within the
last
5 years who can comment on specifics.

http://tinyurl.com/m56fx57


Have fun


Lew





Excellent suggestion Lew! ;~) But sawstop.com is a shorter URL. ;~)

No back to the OP.

And in all seriousness this is not an inexpensive saw. Entry level is
probably going to cost an additional $1K over what you are currently
looking at.

Now something you should be considering. You obviously are serious
about this hobby and plan to continue woodworking since this is going to
be a replacement saw. Don't ask yourself if you can afford the SawStop,
ask yourself if you can afford to loose a finger or the expense of the ER.

There are other fine offerings but so far none have your back should
you, when you , make that mistake, have a lapse in judgement, or do
something stupid.

The first time the saw saves your butt is when the saw more than pays
for it self.

Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

Now something you should be considering. You obviously are serious
about this hobby and plan to continue woodworking since this is going
to be a replacement saw. Don't ask yourself if you can afford the
SawStop, ask yourself if you can afford to loose a finger or the
expense of the ER.

There are other fine offerings but so far none have your back should
you, when you , make that mistake, have a lapse in judgement, or do
something stupid.

The first time the saw saves your butt is when the saw more than pays
for it self.


This comment will undoubtedly loose the usual ****storm of debate on a
subject that has already been flogged to death. I am strongly of the
opinion that having a saw with an idiot-proof feature allows you to be more
of an idiot.

Bank the $1000, and never use your saw without reminding yourself that it
is capable of causing you grievous bodily harm. Not everyone who uses a
table saw will lose a finger. But any woodworker who fails to be vigilant
might.

The real question: Right-tilt or left?

On 3/5/2014 8:13 PM, Tyrone Tiews wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

Now something you should be considering. You obviously are serious
about this hobby and plan to continue woodworking since this is going
to be a replacement saw. Don't ask yourself if you can afford the
SawStop, ask yourself if you can afford to loose a finger or the
expense of the ER.

There are other fine offerings but so far none have your back should
you, when you , make that mistake, have a lapse in judgement, or do
something stupid.

The first time the saw saves your butt is when the saw more than pays
for it self.


This comment will undoubtedly loose the usual ****storm of debate on a
subject that has already been flogged to death. I am strongly of the
opinion that having a saw with an idiot-proof feature allows you to be more
of an idiot.

Bank the $1000, and never use your saw without reminding yourself that it
is capable of causing you grievous bodily harm. Not everyone who uses a
table saw will lose a finger. But any woodworker who fails to be vigilant
might.

The real question: Right-tilt or left?


The TROLL is back..
Tyrone, for you the question is whether you will cut your right or left
hand off.

--
Jeff

Tyrone Tiews wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

Now something you should be considering. You obviously are serious
about this hobby and plan to continue woodworking since this is going
to be a replacement saw. Don't ask yourself if you can afford the
SawStop, ask yourself if you can afford to loose a finger or the
expense of the ER.

There are other fine offerings but so far none have your back should
you, when you , make that mistake, have a lapse in judgement, or do
something stupid.

The first time the saw saves your butt is when the saw more than pays
for it self.


This comment will undoubtedly loose the usual ****storm of debate on a
subject that has already been flogged to death. I am strongly of the
opinion that having a saw with an idiot-proof feature allows you to be more
of an idiot.

Said by the idiot. I am as entitled to voice my opinion as any one here
but insinuating that someone becomes more of an idiot because his or her
beliefs don't align with yours speaks volumes about you.

If you can afford the saw it is a no brainier.

Lew Hodgett wrote:

Update:

This is a better link:

http://tinyurl.com/cz2lu

---------------------------------------------------------
"Leon" wrote:

Excellent suggestion Lew! But sawstop.com is a shorter URL.
--------------------------------------------------------
Not really.

1) Do a Google on "saw stop". 9 keystrokes including space
2) Highlight and select sawstop.com using mouse. No keystrokes
3) Highlight "tinyurl" in toolbar using mouse. No keystrokes
4) Place copy of tinyurl in clipboard using mouse. No keystrokes
5) Paste tinyurl in e-mail. No keystrokes

Grand total: 9 keystrokes + 5 mouse commands.

Devil made me do it G

Lew

On Thu, 06 Mar 2014 01:13:25 +0000, Tyrone Tiews wrote:

This comment will undoubtedly loose the usual ****storm of debate on a
subject that has already been flogged to death. I am strongly of the
opinion that having a saw with an idiot-proof feature allows you to be
more of an idiot.

Amen!

--
Where have all the flowers gone? Pete Seeger 1919-2014

On Wed, 05 Mar 2014 19:55:51 -0600, Leon wrote:


"allows you to be more of an idiot."

"someone becomes more of an idiot"

Last time I looked "allows" and "becomes" were not synonyms.

And if you don't think that a belief that an activity cannot hurt one
allows one to become more careless, I suggest you ask any psychologist.

Yes, the Sawstop is a good saw. Yes, it is the safest saw on the
market. No, it is not a revealed truth from Heaven :-).

You call the OP an idiot. Woodchucker calls him a troll. Seems a bit
harsh for what to me is a defensible point of view.

That psychologist can also acquaint you with the proclivity of someone
who owns a product to get defensive when the product is criticized. The
more expensive the product, the more defensive :-).

--
Where have all the flowers gone? Pete Seeger 1919-2014

On 3/5/2014 9:31 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Wed, 05 Mar 2014 19:55:51 -0600, Leon wrote:


"allows you to be more of an idiot."

"someone becomes more of an idiot"

Last time I looked "allows" and "becomes" were not synonyms.

And if you don't think that a belief that an activity cannot hurt one
allows one to become more careless, I suggest you ask any psychologist.

Yes, the Sawstop is a good saw. Yes, it is the safest saw on the
market. No, it is not a revealed truth from Heaven :-).

You call the OP an idiot. Woodchucker calls him a troll. Seems a bit
harsh for what to me is a defensible point of view.

That psychologist can also acquaint you with the proclivity of someone
who owns a product to get defensive when the product is criticized. The
more expensive the product, the more defensive :-).


No Larry, I called him a TROLL because he is. He is an old time guy that
likes stirring the pot and calling people names..
He just started mildly, I remember his name from long ago, could have
been the binaries, but his name was very familiar.

--
Jeff

Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Wed, 05 Mar 2014 19:55:51 -0600, Leon wrote:


"allows you to be more of an idiot."

"someone becomes more of an idiot"

Last time I looked "allows" and "becomes" were not synonyms.

And if you don't think that a belief that an activity cannot hurt one
allows one to become more careless, I suggest you ask any psychologist.

Yes, the Sawstop is a good saw. Yes, it is the safest saw on the
market. No, it is not a revealed truth from Heaven :-).

You call the OP an idiot. Woodchucker calls him a troll. Seems a bit
harsh for what to me is a defensible point of view.

You might want to straighten out who said what. I did not call the OP an
idiot, Tirome called any one using an idiot proof machine an idiot. So by
that same token if you wear any safety gear while woodworking you are an
idiot. If you wear seat belts you are an idiot, if you don't over ride
safety features on a gas furnace you are an idiot, if you take extra steps
to insure your safety your are an idiot. In a nut shell that is what
Tirome is saying.




That psychologist can also acquaint you with the proclivity of someone
who owns a product to get defensive when the product is criticized. The
more expensive the product, the more defensive :-).

And the psychologist will attest that those that don't like something will
also voice a less than favorable opinion, valid or not.

I have no issue with any one criticizing the SawStop, I do take offense
when that person deducts that I or any oneelse that uses one is an idiot.

"Lew Hodgett" wrote:
Lew Hodgett wrote:

Update:

This is a better link:

http://tinyurl.com/cz2lu

---------------------------------------------------------
"Leon" wrote:

Excellent suggestion Lew! But sawstop.com is a shorter URL.
--------------------------------------------------------
Not really.

1) Do a Google on "saw stop". 9 keystrokes including space
2) Highlight and select sawstop.com using mouse. No keystrokes
3) Highlight "tinyurl" in toolbar using mouse. No keystrokes
4) Place copy of tinyurl in clipboard using mouse. No keystrokes
5) Paste tinyurl in e-mail. No keystrokes

Grand total: 9 keystrokes + 5 mouse commands.

Devil made me do it G

Lew

On my Win 7 PC using Chrome, my iPad, iPhone using Safari simply typing
SawStop.com and pressing enter I get what I expect, the SawStop web site.
You don't?

On Wed, 05 Mar 2014 19:55:51 -0600, Leon wrote:
If you can afford the saw it is a no brainer.

Completely agree. Putting the cost aside, it's no different than a
seat belt in a car. Just common sense.

Leon wrote:

On my Win 7 PC using Chrome, my iPad, iPhone using Safari simply
typing
SawStop.com and pressing enter I get what I expect, the SawStop web
site.
You don't?
--------------------------------
Yes but that is 11 keystrokes, not 8.

Lew

On 3/5/2014 10:18 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
Leon wrote:

On my Win 7 PC using Chrome, my iPad, iPhone using Safari simply
typing
SawStop.com and pressing enter I get what I expect, the SawStop web
site.
You don't?
--------------------------------
Yes but that is 11 keystrokes, not 8.

Lew






Ok..

On 3/5/2014 10:18 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
Leon wrote:

On my Win 7 PC using Chrome, my iPad, iPhone using Safari simply
typing
SawStop.com and pressing enter I get what I expect, the SawStop web
site.
You don't?
--------------------------------
Yes but that is 11 keystrokes, not 8.

Lew






Ok, and the devil made you do it, ;~) I'm going to point out what I was
referring too.

Both your and my URLs get you there in one click.

I was referring to the length of the "tiny URL" vs the length of the URL
that gets you directly to SawStop.

Now I will add that I should have added the www. to sawstop.com. ;~)

www.sawstop.com

On 3/5/2014 11:18 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
Leon wrote:

On my Win 7 PC using Chrome, my iPad, iPhone using Safari simply
typing
SawStop.com and pressing enter I get what I expect, the SawStop web
site.
You don't?
--------------------------------
Yes but that is 11 keystrokes, not 8.

Lew





Leave out the .com. Just type in the name sawstop (or anything you
want) and hit Ctrl/Enter and it will put the .com in for you.

I've saved enough keystrokes last year to buy a Harbor Freight 20% off
coupon.

Tyrone Tiews wrote in
:


This comment will undoubtedly loose the usual ****storm of debate on a
subject that has already been flogged to death. I am strongly of the
opinion that having a saw with an idiot-proof feature allows you to be
more of an idiot.

Bank the $1000, and never use your saw without reminding yourself that
it is capable of causing you grievous bodily harm. Not everyone who
uses a table saw will lose a finger. But any woodworker who fails to
be vigilant might.

The real question: Right-tilt or left?

Even if you've got a SawStop, you must always be mindful of what the saw
will do. The blade may not as readily remove fingers (but it will hurt),
but it will happily throw a piece of wood at you at amazing speed.

This quote comes to mind:
"Never forget who you are. You are ninja. You must always practice the
art of invisibility." -- Splinter, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles II
(copied from: http://www.script-o-rama.com/movie_scripts/t/teenage-
mutant-ninja-turtles-ooze-script.html

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

On Wed, 05 Mar 2014 21:19:18 -0600, Leon wrote:

You might want to straighten out who said what. I did not call the OP
an idiot, Tirome called any one using an idiot proof machine an idiot.

Sorry, Leon. The first sentence of your reply to Tirome was:

"Said by the idiot."

--
Where have all the flowers gone? Pete Seeger 1919-2014

In article
Larry Blanchard writes:
On Wed, 05 Mar 2014 21:19:18 -0600, Leon wrote:

You might want to straighten out who said what. I did not call the OP
an idiot, Tirome called any one using an idiot proof machine an idiot.

Sorry, Leon. The first sentence of your reply to Tirome was:

"Said by the idiot."

Unless there is name swapping going on, Tyrone was not the OP.
The OPP alleges to be "buckwheat."



--
Drew Lawson I had planned to be dead by now, but
the schedule slipped, they do that.
-- Casady

On 06 Mar 2014 17:00:43 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

(snip)
Even if you've got a SawStop, you must always be mindful of what the saw
will do.

Puckdropper

Exactly! Some 40+ years ago I got the very tip of my thumb into the
blade when I flicked a piece of waste close by as the blade was
winding down. With poor florescent lighting I realized later that you
can't always see the real edge of the blade.

Every since then I work up a good case of fear, terror and respect for
the blade before I even turn the saw on. It keeps my mind centered and
not distracted. About like holding a loaded gun with the safety off.
:-)

Gray/viejo lobo gris

On 3/6/2014 10:05 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 3/5/2014 11:18 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
Leon wrote:

On my Win 7 PC using Chrome, my iPad, iPhone using Safari simply
typing
SawStop.com and pressing enter I get what I expect, the SawStop web
site.
You don't?
--------------------------------
Yes but that is 11 keystrokes, not 8.

Lew





Leave out the .com. Just type in the name sawstop (or anything you
want) and hit Ctrl/Enter and it will put the .com in for you.

I've saved enough keystrokes last year to buy a Harbor Freight 20% off
coupon.


LOL +1

woodchucker wrote in
:


Bank the $1000, and never use your saw without reminding yourself
that it is capable of causing you grievous bodily harm. Not everyone
who uses a table saw will lose a finger. But any woodworker who fails
to be vigilant might.

The real question: Right-tilt or left?


The TROLL is back..
Tyrone, for you the question is whether you will cut your right or
left hand off.

For the last ten years I've used a table saw daily, and for thirty or so
years prior to that, I'd used one at least a few of times a week. A few
youthful misadventures with kickback taught me respect. I'm not foolhardy
enough to say I can't get hurt again, but if I do, it won't be because I
have a false sense of security from having a saw that makes a workshop safe
for hot dogs.

Leon wrote in
:

This comment will undoubtedly loose the usual ****storm of debate on
a subject that has already been flogged to death. I am strongly of
the opinion that having a saw with an idiot-proof feature allows you
to be more of an idiot.

Said by the idiot. I am as entitled to voice my opinion as any one
here but insinuating that someone becomes more of an idiot because his
or her beliefs don't align with yours speaks volumes about you.

If you can afford the saw it is a no brainier.

Didn't call anyone an idiot, nor did I suggest that you weren't entitled to
the opinion which you have expressed at least ten thousand times on this
forum. Why so defensive?

Larry Blanchard wrote in news:lf8mlc$6pe$1
@speranza.aioe.org:

On Wed, 05 Mar 2014 19:55:51 -0600, Leon wrote:


"allows you to be more of an idiot."

"someone becomes more of an idiot"

Last time I looked "allows" and "becomes" were not synonyms.

And if you don't think that a belief that an activity cannot hurt one
allows one to become more careless, I suggest you ask any psychologist.

Yes, the Sawstop is a good saw. Yes, it is the safest saw on the
market. No, it is not a revealed truth from Heaven :-).

You call the OP an idiot. Woodchucker calls him a troll. Seems a bit
harsh for what to me is a defensible point of view.

That psychologist can also acquaint you with the proclivity of someone
who owns a product to get defensive when the product is criticized. The
more expensive the product, the more defensive :-).


Thanks, Larry.

On 08 Mar 2014 02:58:43 GMT, Tyrone Tiews wrote:
enough to say I can't get hurt again, but if I do, it won't be because I
have a false sense of security from having a saw that makes a workshop safe
for hot dogs.

Do you wear a seatbelt when you're driving Tyrone? Do you have a smoke
detector or carbon monoxide detector in your home Tyrone? The SawStop
is a safety device just like anything else. If all these things are
likely to give you a false sense of security then you've got a
serious problem.

On 3/7/2014 8:59 PM, Tyrone Tiews wrote:
Leon wrote in
:

This comment will undoubtedly loose the usual ****storm of debate on
a subject that has already been flogged to death. I am strongly of
the opinion that having a saw with an idiot-proof feature allows you
to be more of an idiot.

Said by the idiot. I am as entitled to voice my opinion as any one
here but insinuating that someone becomes more of an idiot because his
or her beliefs don't align with yours speaks volumes about you.

If you can afford the saw it is a no brainier.

Didn't call anyone an idiot, nor did I suggest that you weren't entitled to
the opinion which you have expressed at least ten thousand times on this
forum. Why so defensive?




Let me quote you here.

I am strongly of the opinion that having a saw with an idiot-proof
feature allows you to be more of an idiot.

To be able to be more of an idiot you first have to be an idiot. If you
are not an idiot at all you cannot be more of one.

So while you did not directly name names you did indicate that "having a
saw with an idiot-proof feature" allows a you to be more of an idiot.

You accomplished what you set out to do, offend any one recommending,
considering, or using a SawStop.


Further you stated,

For the last ten years I've used a table saw daily, and for thirty
or so years prior to that, I'd used one at least a few of times a week.
A fewyouthful misadventures with kickback taught me respect. I'm not
foolhardy enough to say I can't get hurt again, but if I do, it won't be
because I have a false sense of security from having a saw that makes a
workshop safe for hot dogs.


Now certainly you understand that with all of your claimed vast years
of extensive and continuous use of a TS that a beginner or a person
clearly not as smart as you might benefit from a safer saw, one that can
prevent a serious cut should that person with much much much less
experience than you have a slip in judgement or do something foolish.
You admit that with your youthful adventures with kickback, and since
you mentioned adventures as plural, one would deduct that either you are
a slow learner or that there actually are numerous possibilities of
being hurt on a TS. AAMOF there is not a publication that can cover
every possible instance of what can prevent an accident. Only
experience helps to fill in the gaps.

And to sum up your way of thinking, If you get hurt using a TS, that is
less safe to use, it is your own fault. Never mind the fact that if you
were using a safer saw you might not get hurt. Have you ever considered
that if you cut you finger or hand it is your fault because you were not
using a SawStop?

And with your comment below, you clearly have not thought out what your
words really mean.

I'm not foolhardy enough to say I can't get hurt again, but if I
do, it won't be because I have a false sense of security from having a
saw that makes a workshop safe for hot dogs.


If you do get hurt again, it will absolutely be because you have a false
sense of security. I'm not calling you stupid but do you think that you
would actually do something purposely wrong? If you get hurt again is
will because you either purposely did something wrong or because you do
not have enough knowledge/experience to know that the operation you are
performing can harm you. Believe me, if you think that you know all of
the ways to prevent being harmed on the TS you are the prime target of
SawStop. If you know you don't know every way of being harmed on a TS
you are also a prime target of SawStop.

It is simply not good judgement to take blame for being hurt on TS
because of a false pride in your mind about how you think you operate a
saw safely when you have available a machine that can greatly reduce the
chance of being harmed.

Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

This comment will undoubtedly loose the usual ****storm of debate
on a subject that has already been flogged to death. I am strongly
of the opinion that having a saw with an idiot-proof feature allows
you to be more of an idiot.

Said by the idiot. I am as entitled to voice my opinion as any one
here but insinuating that someone becomes more of an idiot because
his or her beliefs don't align with yours speaks volumes about you.

If you can afford the saw it is a no brainier.

Didn't call anyone an idiot, nor did I suggest that you weren't
entitled to the opinion which you have expressed at least ten
thousand times on this forum. Why so defensive?




Let me quote you here.

I am strongly of the opinion that having a saw with an
idiot-proof
feature allows you to be more of an idiot.

To be able to be more of an idiot you first have to be an idiot. If
you are not an idiot at all you cannot be more of one.


We're all idiots to some degree, Leon. For instance, some people can't
tell the difference between a huge generalization and a personal attack.


So while you did not directly name names you did indicate that "having
a saw with an idiot-proof feature" allows a you to be more of an
idiot.

You accomplished what you set out to do, offend any one recommending,
considering, or using a SawStop.


All I set out to do was offer my opinion. You disagree with my opinion.
And you go on to make your argument for the ten-thousand and one-th
time.


Further you stated,

For the last ten years I've used a table saw daily, and for
thirty
or so years prior to that, I'd used one at least a few of times a
week. A fewyouthful misadventures with kickback taught me respect. I'm
not foolhardy enough to say I can't get hurt again, but if I do, it
won't be because I have a false sense of security from having a saw
that makes a workshop safe for hot dogs.


Now certainly you understand that with all of your claimed vast years
of extensive and continuous use of a TS that a beginner or a person
clearly not as smart as you might benefit from a safer saw, one that
can prevent a serious cut should that person with much much much less
experience than you have a slip in judgement or do something foolish.

Which is why all entry-level table saws are equipped with the Saw Stop,
right? Because all first-time buyers are willing and able to shell out
the extra $$$ that the hot-dog nicking safety device costs.

No?

Please elaborate.


You admit that with your youthful adventures with kickback, and since
you mentioned adventures as plural, one would deduct that either you
are a slow learner or that there actually are numerous possibilities
of being hurt on a TS. AAMOF there is not a publication that can
cover every possible instance of what can prevent an accident. Only
experience helps to fill in the gaps.

And to sum up your way of thinking, If you get hurt using a TS, that
is less safe to use, it is your own fault.



Absolutely. Personal responsibility is a wonderful thing. Can't
recommend it enough. Should be taught in school, even.



Never mind the fact that
if you were using a safer saw you might not get hurt. Have you ever
considered that if you cut you finger or hand it is your fault because
you were not using a SawStop?



Huh??? Of course it would be my fault. See above personal
responsibility.



And with your comment below, you clearly have not thought out what
your words really mean.

I'm not foolhardy enough to say I can't get hurt again, but if I
do, it won't be because I have a false sense of security from having a
saw that makes a workshop safe for hot dogs.


If you do get hurt again, it will absolutely be because you have a
false sense of security. I'm not calling you stupid but do you think
that you would actually do something purposely wrong? If you get hurt
again is will because you either purposely did something wrong or
because you do not have enough knowledge/experience to know that the
operation you are performing can harm you. Believe me, if you think
that you know all of the ways to prevent being harmed on the TS you
are the prime target of SawStop. If you know you don't know every way
of being harmed on a TS you are also a prime target of SawStop.


As I said earlier, I'm not enough of a fool to think that I can't get
hurt by a table saw. I remind myself EVERY TIME I turn the thing on. I'm
also not enough of a fool to think that the overpriced safety device you
defend so rabidly will prevent anything other than the type of accident
caused by carelessness, and is not designed to prevent any of the other
kinds of harm the thing can throw my way if I use it incorrectly.

On 3/8/2014 10:14 PM, Elrond Hubbard wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

This comment will undoubtedly loose the usual ****storm of debate
on a subject that has already been flogged to death. I am strongly
of the opinion that having a saw with an idiot-proof feature allows
you to be more of an idiot.

Said by the idiot. I am as entitled to voice my opinion as any one
here but insinuating that someone becomes more of an idiot because
his or her beliefs don't align with yours speaks volumes about you.

If you can afford the saw it is a no brainier.

Didn't call anyone an idiot, nor did I suggest that you weren't
entitled to the opinion which you have expressed at least ten
thousand times on this forum. Why so defensive?




Let me quote you here.

I am strongly of the opinion that having a saw with an
idiot-proof
feature allows you to be more of an idiot.

To be able to be more of an idiot you first have to be an idiot. If
you are not an idiot at all you cannot be more of one.


We're all idiots to some degree, Leon. For instance, some people can't
tell the difference between a huge generalization and a personal attack.


So while you did not directly name names you did indicate that "having
a saw with an idiot-proof feature" allows a you to be more of an
idiot.

You accomplished what you set out to do, offend any one recommending,
considering, or using a SawStop.


All I set out to do was offer my opinion. You disagree with my opinion.
And you go on to make your argument for the ten-thousand and one-th
time.


Further you stated,

For the last ten years I've used a table saw daily, and for
thirty
or so years prior to that, I'd used one at least a few of times a
week. A fewyouthful misadventures with kickback taught me respect. I'm
not foolhardy enough to say I can't get hurt again, but if I do, it
won't be because I have a false sense of security from having a saw
that makes a workshop safe for hot dogs.


Now certainly you understand that with all of your claimed vast years
of extensive and continuous use of a TS that a beginner or a person
clearly not as smart as you might benefit from a safer saw, one that
can prevent a serious cut should that person with much much much less
experience than you have a slip in judgement or do something foolish.

Which is why all entry-level table saws are equipped with the Saw Stop,
right? Because all first-time buyers are willing and able to shell out
the extra $$$ that the hot-dog nicking safety device costs.

No?

Please elaborate.


You admit that with your youthful adventures with kickback, and since
you mentioned adventures as plural, one would deduct that either you
are a slow learner or that there actually are numerous possibilities
of being hurt on a TS. AAMOF there is not a publication that can
cover every possible instance of what can prevent an accident. Only
experience helps to fill in the gaps.

And to sum up your way of thinking, If you get hurt using a TS, that
is less safe to use, it is your own fault.



Absolutely. Personal responsibility is a wonderful thing. Can't
recommend it enough. Should be taught in school, even.



Never mind the fact that
if you were using a safer saw you might not get hurt. Have you ever
considered that if you cut you finger or hand it is your fault because
you were not using a SawStop?



Huh??? Of course it would be my fault. See above personal
responsibility.



And with your comment below, you clearly have not thought out what
your words really mean.

I'm not foolhardy enough to say I can't get hurt again, but if I
do, it won't be because I have a false sense of security from having a
saw that makes a workshop safe for hot dogs.


If you do get hurt again, it will absolutely be because you have a
false sense of security. I'm not calling you stupid but do you think
that you would actually do something purposely wrong? If you get hurt
again is will because you either purposely did something wrong or
because you do not have enough knowledge/experience to know that the
operation you are performing can harm you. Believe me, if you think
that you know all of the ways to prevent being harmed on the TS you
are the prime target of SawStop. If you know you don't know every way
of being harmed on a TS you are also a prime target of SawStop.


As I said earlier, I'm not enough of a fool to think that I can't get
hurt by a table saw. I remind myself EVERY TIME I turn the thing on. I'm
also not enough of a fool to think that the overpriced safety device you
defend so rabidly will prevent anything other than the type of accident
caused by carelessness, and is not designed to prevent any of the other
kinds of harm the thing can throw my way if I use it incorrectly.


So looking back I did not see a previous post from Elron Hubbard, so who
did you post your opinion as???



--
Jeff

On 3/7/2014 10:17 PM, wrote:
On 08 Mar 2014 02:58:43 GMT, Tyrone Tiews wrote:
enough to say I can't get hurt again, but if I do, it won't be because I
have a false sense of security from having a saw that makes a workshop safe
for hot dogs.

Do you wear a seatbelt when you're driving Tyrone? Do you have a smoke
detector or carbon monoxide detector in your home Tyrone? The SawStop
is a safety device just like anything else. If all these things are
likely to give you a false sense of security then you've got a
serious problem.


The degree to which any safety device contributes to the utilitarian
value to the owner varies with the ....owner.
I would question the value of the Saw Stop safety device to someone who
is extraordinarily safety conscious when operating any device that
presents a danger.
Am I prepared to trade some expensive and desirable tool in exchange for
the safety a SawStop offers (say a jointer and a less expensive table
saw.)
(actually, I am since I can afford to)
But for the individual who has to scrape together money for tools the
choice might not be so easy.
Having said that, if I were in the market for a new table saw the
determining factor for my choice would be the quality of the tool.

None of the foregoing should be interpreted as a criticism of the
SawStop's quality.

(and, by the way, insurance data shows that seat belts apparently do
cause drivers to develop a false sense of security. That's why people
often do not buckle up for short trips but when they hit the freeway
they do buckle up.)

On 3/8/2014 10:05 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 3/8/2014 10:14 PM, Elrond Hubbard wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

This comment will undoubtedly loose the usual ****storm of debate
on a subject that has already been flogged to death. I am strongly
of the opinion that having a saw with an idiot-proof feature allows
you to be more of an idiot.

Said by the idiot. I am as entitled to voice my opinion as any one
here but insinuating that someone becomes more of an idiot because
his or her beliefs don't align with yours speaks volumes about you.

If you can afford the saw it is a no brainier.

Didn't call anyone an idiot, nor did I suggest that you weren't
entitled to the opinion which you have expressed at least ten
thousand times on this forum. Why so defensive?




Let me quote you here.

I am strongly of the opinion that having a saw with an
idiot-proof
feature allows you to be more of an idiot.

To be able to be more of an idiot you first have to be an idiot. If
you are not an idiot at all you cannot be more of one.


We're all idiots to some degree, Leon. For instance, some people can't
tell the difference between a huge generalization and a personal attack.


So while you did not directly name names you did indicate that "having
a saw with an idiot-proof feature" allows a you to be more of an
idiot.

You accomplished what you set out to do, offend any one recommending,
considering, or using a SawStop.


All I set out to do was offer my opinion. You disagree with my opinion.
And you go on to make your argument for the ten-thousand and one-th
time.


Further you stated,

For the last ten years I've used a table saw daily, and for
thirty
or so years prior to that, I'd used one at least a few of times a
week. A fewyouthful misadventures with kickback taught me respect. I'm
not foolhardy enough to say I can't get hurt again, but if I do, it
won't be because I have a false sense of security from having a saw
that makes a workshop safe for hot dogs.


Now certainly you understand that with all of your claimed vast years
of extensive and continuous use of a TS that a beginner or a person
clearly not as smart as you might benefit from a safer saw, one that
can prevent a serious cut should that person with much much much less
experience than you have a slip in judgement or do something foolish.

Which is why all entry-level table saws are equipped with the Saw Stop,
right? Because all first-time buyers are willing and able to shell out
the extra $$$ that the hot-dog nicking safety device costs.

No?

Please elaborate.


You admit that with your youthful adventures with kickback, and since
you mentioned adventures as plural, one would deduct that either you
are a slow learner or that there actually are numerous possibilities
of being hurt on a TS. AAMOF there is not a publication that can
cover every possible instance of what can prevent an accident. Only
experience helps to fill in the gaps.

And to sum up your way of thinking, If you get hurt using a TS, that
is less safe to use, it is your own fault.



Absolutely. Personal responsibility is a wonderful thing. Can't
recommend it enough. Should be taught in school, even.



Never mind the fact that
if you were using a safer saw you might not get hurt. Have you ever
considered that if you cut you finger or hand it is your fault because
you were not using a SawStop?



Huh??? Of course it would be my fault. See above personal
responsibility.



And with your comment below, you clearly have not thought out what
your words really mean.

I'm not foolhardy enough to say I can't get hurt again, but if I
do, it won't be because I have a false sense of security from having a
saw that makes a workshop safe for hot dogs.


If you do get hurt again, it will absolutely be because you have a
false sense of security. I'm not calling you stupid but do you think
that you would actually do something purposely wrong? If you get hurt
again is will because you either purposely did something wrong or
because you do not have enough knowledge/experience to know that the
operation you are performing can harm you. Believe me, if you think
that you know all of the ways to prevent being harmed on the TS you
are the prime target of SawStop. If you know you don't know every way
of being harmed on a TS you are also a prime target of SawStop.


As I said earlier, I'm not enough of a fool to think that I can't get
hurt by a table saw. I remind myself EVERY TIME I turn the thing on. I'm
also not enough of a fool to think that the overpriced safety device you
defend so rabidly will prevent anything other than the type of accident
caused by carelessness, and is not designed to prevent any of the other
kinds of harm the thing can throw my way if I use it incorrectly.


So looking back I did not see a previous post from Elron Hubbard, so who
did you post your opinion as???



Obliviously a sock puppet that I have wasted enough time on.

On 3/8/2014 9:53 PM, Leon wrote:
On 3/8/2014 10:05 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 3/8/2014 10:14 PM, Elrond Hubbard wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:



So looking back I did not see a previous post from Elron Hubbard, so who
did you post your opinion as???



Obliviously a sock puppet that I have wasted enough time on.

Leon, Jeff,
Time to step back and take a deep breath. In fact most of the
contributors to this thread should do so. When reasoned discourse and
emotional involvement meet each other, the "reasoned" part seems to fade.
mahalo,
jo4hn