I have been applying myself to getting the wiring installed in the shop,
so far the only part completed is the 120V for outlets.

All ran in emt, with 2 gang handy box every ten feet around the perimeter,
making it impossible to get more than 5 feet from 2 duplex outlets.
They are even closer in some areas where high usage is likely.
Making a total of 40 duplex outlets.
I may put a row of drops down the center of the roofline in
addition to wall outlets, they would be handy but also possibly in the
way at times.

I despise having to look for a place to plug something up.

One 2 circuit 10ga 240v line is complete along the back wall
to provide power to the bandsaw and planer, neither of which
is in place or hooked up presently. They are currently living on
my back porch, should be in their new home shortly.

I will run another double 240V circuit along part of the front wall
one to provide power to a new table saw ( if I ever decide what to buy)
and another just for future use.

I have ran many tens of thousands of feet of conduit in the distant past,
but it took me a while to get back in the swing of bending conduit.
Kinda like riding a bike, you never forget but it's a little shaky at
first.

also left to do is two runs for 3 phase, presently I have 6 pieces of 3
phase equipment that will be powered by a rotary
converter.

I've tried to stick with the rules on the wiring with the exception
of GFI breakers, so it would fail inspection on that point.

Which brings us to lighting, I'm still using a strip of carnival lights
for temporary lighting, which cosist of 25, 100 watt equivalent CFL
bulbs, this works and is a lot of light but it looks like and is ****,
time for permanent lighting.

I've pretty much settled on 6
low bay 400 watt metal halide. I considered 400 watt equiv
led lights but just can't bear the expense right now,
pay me now or pay me later. They are making mogul base
leds that will screw in metal halide fixtures after bypassing
the ballast, so hopefully the price of leds will come down
by the time the metal halide fixtures fail. If all that happens
I can replace them one at the time.

basilisk

On 2/17/2014 9:23 AM, basilisk wrote:

I've pretty much settled on 6
low bay 400 watt metal halide.

In our warehouse we had metal halide and the power company paid us to
take them out and replace them with 4 tube high efficiency fluorescent.
The ones we had were 1000 watt and we are getting better light with less
than 200 watts.

The old lights had bulbs that cost $100 too. Now, all four would cost
about $16.

On 2/17/2014 8:23 AM, basilisk wrote:
I have been applying myself to getting the wiring installed in the shop,
so far the only part completed is the 120V for outlets.

Appears you've done a great job thus far.

I've tried to stick with the rules on the wiring with the exception
of GFI breakers, so it would fail inspection on that point.

I always put them in where they are required, figuring I'm not going to
live forever and, third party inspections being a guarantee in this area
prior to resell, it is one less thing I'll have to address for selling
when I may not be able to do so easily. Problematic in their early
stages, I have literally had no problems with GFCI receptacles/breakers
in the shop the last few years.

I've pretty much settled on 6
low bay 400 watt metal halide. I considered 400 watt equiv
led lights but just can't bear the expense right now,
pay me now or pay me later. They are making mogul base
leds that will screw in metal halide fixtures after bypassing
the ballast, so hopefully the price of leds will come down
by the time the metal halide fixtures fail. If all that happens
I can replace them one at the time.

Good plan ... looks like you're on the right track.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 2/17/2014 9:32 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/17/2014 9:23 AM, basilisk wrote:

I've pretty much settled on 6
low bay 400 watt metal halide.

In our warehouse we had metal halide and the power company paid us to
take them out and replace them with 4 tube high efficiency fluorescent.
The ones we had were 1000 watt and we are getting better light with less
than 200 watts.

The old lights had bulbs that cost $100 too. Now, all four would cost
about $16.

Same in the gym that I play volleyball in. It's also nice having the
lights come on quickly rather than taking 10-15 to warm up.

--
Jeff

On Mon, 17 Feb 2014 09:32:23 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 2/17/2014 9:23 AM, basilisk wrote:

I've pretty much settled on 6
low bay 400 watt metal halide.

In our warehouse we had metal halide and the power company paid us to
take them out and replace them with 4 tube high efficiency fluorescent.
The ones we had were 1000 watt and we are getting better light with less
than 200 watts.

The old lights had bulbs that cost $100 too. Now, all four would cost
about $16.

I disregarded fluorescents on two counts, the number of fixtures required,
I've a bit of a lazy streak, rather hang 6 fixtures rather than 18 and for
some inexplicable reason fluorescents have a very short life span
here, doesn't seem to be a grounding issue as I have several more ground
rods driven in than required and they are in high iron content soil.
The voltage runs high here but not enough that it should be a problem,
sometimes hitting 130v. Who knows what goes on with the power
when no one is looking.

It is bad enough that the tought of keeping a bunch of fluorescents
operational is daunting. Of course there is no guarantee that
metal halide won't be plagued by the same problem, spend your money
and take your chances.

basilisk

On Mon, 17 Feb 2014 08:39:25 -0600, Swingman wrote:

On 2/17/2014 8:23 AM, basilisk wrote:
I have been applying myself to getting the wiring installed in the shop,
so far the only part completed is the 120V for outlets.

Appears you've done a great job thus far.

Thanks for the kind words, it seem to take forever for me to finish
anything, working 60 hours a week for someone else slows me down for
some reason.

I've tried to stick with the rules on the wiring with the exception
of GFI breakers, so it would fail inspection on that point.

I always put them in where they are required, figuring I'm not going to
live forever and, third party inspections being a guarantee in this area
prior to resell, it is one less thing I'll have to address for selling
when I may not be able to do so easily. Problematic in their early
stages, I have literally had no problems with GFCI receptacles/breakers
in the shop the last few years.

I've never really been sold on them from a practical stand point.
I doubt they have ever saved anyone, except maybe the toaster
in the bathtub crowd. I do have some in the kitchen and baths.

For the reasons you stated it makes sense to put them in up front.


I've pretty much settled on 6
low bay 400 watt metal halide. I considered 400 watt equiv
led lights but just can't bear the expense right now,
pay me now or pay me later. They are making mogul base
leds that will screw in metal halide fixtures after bypassing
the ballast, so hopefully the price of leds will come down
by the time the metal halide fixtures fail. If all that happens
I can replace them one at the time.

Good plan ... looks like you're on the right track.

On 2/17/14, 8:40 AM, woodchucker wrote:
On 2/17/2014 9:32 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/17/2014 9:23 AM, basilisk wrote:

I've pretty much settled on 6 low bay 400 watt metal halide.

In our warehouse we had metal halide and the power company paid us
to take them out and replace them with 4 tube high efficiency
fluorescent. The ones we had were 1000 watt and we are getting
better light with less than 200 watts.

The old lights had bulbs that cost $100 too. Now, all four would
cost about $16.

Same in the gym that I play volleyball in. It's also nice having the
lights come on quickly rather than taking 10-15 to warm up.


Keep in mind how lighting affects the hues in your finishes. Many
artificial light sources make it next to impossible to see what your
finish will actually look like in natural or normal household lighting.
Fluorescent and halide being the worst offenders.

I spent the extra money on fluorescent tubes that give off light the
color of an overcast day which is not too warm and not too cool, and
certainly not that gross green of most fluorescent tubes.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Mon, 17 Feb 2014 10:22:27 -0600, -MIKE- wrote:

I spent the extra money on fluorescent tubes that give off light the
color of an overcast day which is not too warm and not too cool, and
certainly not that gross green of most fluorescent tubes.

I use shop lights and have found that a combination of one "standard"
cool white tube and one GE "kitchen and bath" tube (more red) come pretty
close to house lighting with incandescents.

But incandescents are on their way out ...

--
Where have all the flowers gone? Pete Seeger 1919-2014

On 2/17/2014 9:54 AM, basilisk wrote:


I disregarded fluorescents on two counts, the number of fixtures required,
I've a bit of a lazy streak, rather hang 6 fixtures rather than 18 and for
some inexplicable reason fluorescents have a very short life span
here, doesn't seem to be a grounding issue as I have several more ground
rods driven in than required and they are in high iron content soil.
The voltage runs high here but not enough that it should be a problem,
sometimes hitting 130v. Who knows what goes on with the power
when no one is looking.

No need for 18 fixtures. We replaced them one for one and have plenty
of good light. We also have 6 tube fixtures in the production area.
Bright as being outside on a sunny day.

As for the short life span, that is a different issue.

On 2/17/2014 10:15 AM, basilisk wrote:
On Mon, 17 Feb 2014 08:39:25 -0600, Swingman wrote:

On 2/17/2014 8:23 AM, basilisk wrote:
I have been applying myself to getting the wiring installed in the shop,
so far the only part completed is the 120V for outlets.

Appears you've done a great job thus far.

Thanks for the kind words, it seem to take forever for me to finish
anything, working 60 hours a week for someone else slows me down for
some reason.

I've tried to stick with the rules on the wiring with the exception
of GFI breakers, so it would fail inspection on that point.

I always put them in where they are required, figuring I'm not going to
live forever and, third party inspections being a guarantee in this area
prior to resell, it is one less thing I'll have to address for selling
when I may not be able to do so easily. Problematic in their early
stages, I have literally had no problems with GFCI receptacles/breakers
in the shop the last few years.

I've never really been sold on them from a practical stand point.
I doubt they have ever saved anyone, except maybe the toaster
in the bathtub crowd. I do have some in the kitchen and baths.
Not true, I had a pump that went bad in the pool area.. it was a cover
pump. And it was fine on the gfci, then it started popping it. Clearly
it could have saved my ass. Before I replaced the pump I ran a cord to a
non-gfci ckt. I just made sure I unplugged it b4 doing any work there.
Also when cutting concrete with an old metal cased circ saw, made sure
it was in use, since I also used slight spraying of water to keep the
dust down... while it didn't pop, it was nice knowing I had the protection.



For the reasons you stated it makes sense to put them in up front.


I've pretty much settled on 6
low bay 400 watt metal halide. I considered 400 watt equiv
led lights but just can't bear the expense right now,
pay me now or pay me later. They are making mogul base
leds that will screw in metal halide fixtures after bypassing
the ballast, so hopefully the price of leds will come down
by the time the metal halide fixtures fail. If all that happens
I can replace them one at the time.

Good plan ... looks like you're on the right track.


--
Jeff

basilisk wrote:

I've pretty much settled on 6
low bay 400 watt metal halide.
----------------------------------------------
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote:

In our warehouse we had metal halide and the power company paid us
to take them out and replace them with 4 tube high efficiency
fluorescent.
The ones we had were 1000 watt and we are getting better light with
less than 200 watts.

The old lights had bulbs that cost $100 too. Now, all four would
cost about $16.
------------------------------------------------------
Having designed and sold a lot of industrial lighting systems in a
past life,
will offer the following:

Metal halide is a good lamp source if you are an automotive dealership
or a sports stadium.

Color rendition is good and the hours of operation are limited.

Metal halide is a POOR lamp source if you are an industrial area.

Metal halide has high initial lumen output; however, they have short
useful
life and high lumen depreciation.

Ed Pawlowski's suggestion of 4 tube high efficiency fluorescent
luminaires
is a good one.

Run 2 circuits to each fixture and you can easily have 2 level
lighting.

Have fun.

Lew

-MIKE- wrote:


Keep in mind how lighting affects the hues in your finishes. Many
artificial light sources make it next to impossible to see what your
finish will actually look like in natural or normal household
lighting. Fluorescent and halide being the worst offenders.

Yes - kinda, sorta. I do agree that color temperature in lights does factor
in, but if one is comparing two pieces, then it's a lot different thing. If
one is looking to achieve a particular color as viewed under different
lighting, then it's an issue. The best advise is to compare the desired
color and the work piece color under the same light. We have to do this
everyday when painting cars. The secret is to really look at the target
piece to see what it looks like - not what you want to think it looks like.


I spent the extra money on fluorescent tubes that give off light the
color of an overcast day which is not too warm and not too cool, and
certainly not that gross green of most fluorescent tubes.

Not a bad choice. I went with the more blueish daylight tubes. I needed as
much light as I could find. It is not hard to match existing colors, or
desired colors if I pay attention to viewing them under the same lighting.

--

-Mike-

"basilisk" wrote in message


I may put a row of drops down the center of the roofline
in
addition to wall outlets, they would be handy but also
possibly in the way at times.

You might want to consider something like this...

In one of my photography studios I got the light cords off the floor by
stringing fine cable - 1/16th IIRC - wall to wall, tensioned a bit with
small turnbuckles. There were six cables, three about 6 feet from each side
of the 20' wide room, My electric cords went up one wall, then into a series
of loops, each of which was attached to a nylon traveler (slide) on a cable.
A short piece of coil cord was spliced into the end of each electric wire.

With this setup I could move any of the 6-8 lights to any place in the
studio. I could also get them all out of the way. I could also just unplug
a light and move it elsewhere as the end of the coil cord - when retracted -
was a bit less than an arms reach above my head; when extended, tthe coil
cords would reach (or nearly reach) the floor.

Worked for me, plan to do something similar in my shop, only 1-2 lines
though.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

"basilisk" wrote in message
...
I have been applying myself to getting the wiring installed in the shop,
so far the only part completed is the 120V for outlets.

All ran in emt, with 2 gang handy box every ten feet around the perimeter,
making it impossible to get more than 5 feet from 2 duplex outlets.
They are even closer in some areas where high usage is likely.
Making a total of 40 duplex outlets.
I may put a row of drops down the center of the roofline in
addition to wall outlets, they would be handy but also possibly in the
way at times.

I despise having to look for a place to plug something up.

One 2 circuit 10ga 240v line is complete along the back wall
to provide power to the bandsaw and planer, neither of which
is in place or hooked up presently. They are currently living on
my back porch, should be in their new home shortly.

I will run another double 240V circuit along part of the front wall
one to provide power to a new table saw ( if I ever decide what to buy)
and another just for future use.

I have ran many tens of thousands of feet of conduit in the distant past,
but it took me a while to get back in the swing of bending conduit.
Kinda like riding a bike, you never forget but it's a little shaky at
first.

also left to do is two runs for 3 phase, presently I have 6 pieces of 3
phase equipment that will be powered by a rotary
converter.

I've tried to stick with the rules on the wiring with the exception
of GFI breakers, so it would fail inspection on that point.

Which brings us to lighting, I'm still using a strip of carnival lights
for temporary lighting, which cosist of 25, 100 watt equivalent CFL
bulbs, this works and is a lot of light but it looks like and is ****,
time for permanent lighting.

I've pretty much settled on 6
low bay 400 watt metal halide. I considered 400 watt equiv
led lights but just can't bear the expense right now,
pay me now or pay me later. They are making mogul base
leds that will screw in metal halide fixtures after bypassing
the ballast, so hopefully the price of leds will come down
by the time the metal halide fixtures fail. If all that happens
I can replace them one at the time.

You know I only ran 2 240V circuits to the back in my shop initially. One
for the air compressor I still don't have to replace the CH roll around, and
one for a table saw. Now I have 2 240V welders back there and a 230V CNC
Mill, and will soon add another 230V CNC mill back there. Also maybe a
large bed CNC router with a 230V spindle. I never thought in a million
years I would have so much fabrication equipment in my shop. Lots of 120V
outlets is fine, but plan a few extra 240V circuits as well. You never
know.












---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

On 2/17/14, 1:19 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:


Keep in mind how lighting affects the hues in your finishes. Many
artificial light sources make it next to impossible to see what
your finish will actually look like in natural or normal household
lighting. Fluorescent and halide being the worst offenders.

Yes - kinda, sorta. I do agree that color temperature in lights
does factor in, but if one is comparing two pieces, then it's a lot
different thing. If one is looking to achieve a particular color as
viewed under different lighting, then it's an issue. The best
advise is to compare the desired color and the work piece color
under the same light. We have to do this everyday when painting
cars. The secret is to really look at the target piece to see what
it looks like - not what you want to think it looks like.


I spent the extra money on fluorescent tubes that give off light
the color of an overcast day which is not too warm and not too
cool, and certainly not that gross green of most fluorescent
tubes.

Not a bad choice. I went with the more blueish daylight tubes. I
needed as much light as I could find. It is not hard to match
existing colors, or desired colors if I pay attention to viewing
them under the same lighting.


I wasn't even thinking about matching colors.
I was thinking purely esthetics.

We are working in an art form and we naturally just see colors in our
own minds as beautiful or not. That is drastically affected by light
and is skewed by the hue, as it were. :-) In anything else we do in
woodworking, all we need is *enough* light, the color doesn't matter.
If we can see the shapes and textures we are making, that is all that
matters. But with color, why start off at such a terrible disadvantage?
In the long run, it's a drop in the bucket to get some decent colored
lighting like you and I did.

Personally, I'm not going to check out the lighting in a home where
something I build is going. If they have florescent lighting, that's
their problem. *Every*thing in that room will be ugly. :-)

That's what always cracks me up about these home stores in a warehouse
type setting with terrible lighting. Whether it's flooring and tile, or
furniture, or whatever, even a beautiful product is going to look ugly
under those terrible green and orange and yellow lights.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Mon, 17 Feb 2014 13:14:26 -0700, Bob La Londe wrote:

"basilisk" wrote in message
...
I have been applying myself to getting the wiring installed in the shop,
so far the only part completed is the 120V for outlets.

All ran in emt, with 2 gang handy box every ten feet around the perimeter,
making it impossible to get more than 5 feet from 2 duplex outlets.
They are even closer in some areas where high usage is likely.
Making a total of 40 duplex outlets.
I may put a row of drops down the center of the roofline in
addition to wall outlets, they would be handy but also possibly in the
way at times.

I despise having to look for a place to plug something up.

One 2 circuit 10ga 240v line is complete along the back wall
to provide power to the bandsaw and planer, neither of which
is in place or hooked up presently. They are currently living on
my back porch, should be in their new home shortly.

I will run another double 240V circuit along part of the front wall
one to provide power to a new table saw ( if I ever decide what to buy)
and another just for future use.

I have ran many tens of thousands of feet of conduit in the distant past,
but it took me a while to get back in the swing of bending conduit.
Kinda like riding a bike, you never forget but it's a little shaky at
first.

also left to do is two runs for 3 phase, presently I have 6 pieces of 3
phase equipment that will be powered by a rotary
converter.

I've tried to stick with the rules on the wiring with the exception
of GFI breakers, so it would fail inspection on that point.

Which brings us to lighting, I'm still using a strip of carnival lights
for temporary lighting, which cosist of 25, 100 watt equivalent CFL
bulbs, this works and is a lot of light but it looks like and is ****,
time for permanent lighting.

I've pretty much settled on 6
low bay 400 watt metal halide. I considered 400 watt equiv
led lights but just can't bear the expense right now,
pay me now or pay me later. They are making mogul base
leds that will screw in metal halide fixtures after bypassing
the ballast, so hopefully the price of leds will come down
by the time the metal halide fixtures fail. If all that happens
I can replace them one at the time.

You know I only ran 2 240V circuits to the back in my shop initially. One
for the air compressor I still don't have to replace the CH roll around, and
one for a table saw. Now I have 2 240V welders back there and a 230V CNC
Mill, and will soon add another 230V CNC mill back there. Also maybe a
large bed CNC router with a 230V spindle. I never thought in a million
years I would have so much fabrication equipment in my shop. Lots of 120V
outlets is fine, but plan a few extra 240V circuits as well. You never
know.


Everthing that will use 240v is accounted for, except for a welding
machine. I may go diesel for the welder as the machine I have now is a
buzz box and not good for much.

Bridgeport, Leblond lathe, Barnes drill press, G&E shaper, metal saw and
a stroke sander all run on 3 phase, none of which is run yet...

I also have another m-head bridgeport that has outlived its usefulness
as a milling machine that will make a fine drill press for woodwork.

basilisk

On Mon, 17 Feb 2014 14:24:55 -0500, dadiOH wrote:

"basilisk" wrote in message


I may put a row of drops down the center of the roofline
in
addition to wall outlets, they would be handy but also
possibly in the way at times.

You might want to consider something like this...

In one of my photography studios I got the light cords off the floor by
stringing fine cable - 1/16th IIRC - wall to wall, tensioned a bit with
small turnbuckles. There were six cables, three about 6 feet from each side
of the 20' wide room, My electric cords went up one wall, then into a series
of loops, each of which was attached to a nylon traveler (slide) on a cable.
A short piece of coil cord was spliced into the end of each electric wire.

With this setup I could move any of the 6-8 lights to any place in the
studio. I could also get them all out of the way. I could also just unplug
a light and move it elsewhere as the end of the coil cord - when retracted -
was a bit less than an arms reach above my head; when extended, tthe coil
cords would reach (or nearly reach) the floor.

Worked for me, plan to do something similar in my shop, only 1-2 lines
though.

That's not a bad idea.

basilisk

On Mon, 17 Feb 2014 17:08:14 +0000 (UTC), Larry Blanchard wrote:

On Mon, 17 Feb 2014 10:22:27 -0600, -MIKE- wrote:

I spent the extra money on fluorescent tubes that give off light the
color of an overcast day which is not too warm and not too cool, and
certainly not that gross green of most fluorescent tubes.

I use shop lights and have found that a combination of one "standard"
cool white tube and one GE "kitchen and bath" tube (more red) come pretty
close to house lighting with incandescents.

But incandescents are on their way out ...

Indeed, my living room has a mix of CFL, Led and incandescent light,
if you want to know what color something is you have to go outside.

It may be a moot point anyway, I was born without whatever it is that
regulates color matching and color suitability.

basilisk

basilisk wrote:

Everthing that will use 240v is accounted for, except for a welding
machine. I may go diesel for the welder as the machine I have now is a
buzz box and not good for much.


What kind of welding do you do? Your buzz box is not something I would
consider "not good for much", unless there's something wrong with it. If
you're working under 3/8" for 90% of your welding, then give due
consideration to the 120v welders. I think they're usually actually rated
to 1/4" but they will easily weld 3/8". Nice, because you can plug them in
anywhere. Most of us don't weld 1/2" often enough to warrant the extra
expense so the 120v welders work just fine. I have welded 1/2" with my
Hobart, but I did it in multiple passes . The nice part is I can throw it
in the truck or in the trunk and take it anywhere to do some welding. Using
flux core wire, I don't even need to take my argon bottle.

--

-Mike-

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
...
basilisk wrote:

Everthing that will use 240v is accounted for, except for a welding
machine. I may go diesel for the welder as the machine I have now is a
buzz box and not good for much.


What kind of welding do you do? Your buzz box is not something I would
consider "not good for much", unless there's something wrong with it. If
you're working under 3/8" for 90% of your welding, then give due
consideration to the 120v welders. I think they're usually actually rated
to 1/4" but they will easily weld 3/8". Nice, because you can plug them
in anywhere. Most of us don't weld 1/2" often enough to warrant the extra
expense so the 120v welders work just fine. I have welded 1/2" with my
Hobart, but I did it in multiple passes . The nice part is I can throw it
in the truck or in the trunk and take it anywhere to do some welding.
Using flux core wire, I don't even need to take my argon bottle.

Its pretty hard to beat a 120V flux core for welding a gate handle on a gate
in the field instead of having to take the gate back to the shop.






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On Mon, 17 Feb 2014 13:14:26 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

"basilisk" wrote in message
.. .
I have been applying myself to getting the wiring installed in the shop,
so far the only part completed is the 120V for outlets.

All ran in emt, with 2 gang handy box every ten feet around the perimeter,
making it impossible to get more than 5 feet from 2 duplex outlets.
They are even closer in some areas where high usage is likely.
Making a total of 40 duplex outlets.
I may put a row of drops down the center of the roofline in
addition to wall outlets, they would be handy but also possibly in the
way at times.

I despise having to look for a place to plug something up.

One 2 circuit 10ga 240v line is complete along the back wall
to provide power to the bandsaw and planer, neither of which
is in place or hooked up presently. They are currently living on
my back porch, should be in their new home shortly.

I will run another double 240V circuit along part of the front wall
one to provide power to a new table saw ( if I ever decide what to buy)
and another just for future use.

I have ran many tens of thousands of feet of conduit in the distant past,
but it took me a while to get back in the swing of bending conduit.
Kinda like riding a bike, you never forget but it's a little shaky at
first.

also left to do is two runs for 3 phase, presently I have 6 pieces of 3
phase equipment that will be powered by a rotary
converter.

I've tried to stick with the rules on the wiring with the exception
of GFI breakers, so it would fail inspection on that point.

Which brings us to lighting, I'm still using a strip of carnival lights
for temporary lighting, which cosist of 25, 100 watt equivalent CFL
bulbs, this works and is a lot of light but it looks like and is ****,
time for permanent lighting.

I've pretty much settled on 6
low bay 400 watt metal halide. I considered 400 watt equiv
led lights but just can't bear the expense right now,
pay me now or pay me later. They are making mogul base
leds that will screw in metal halide fixtures after bypassing
the ballast, so hopefully the price of leds will come down
by the time the metal halide fixtures fail. If all that happens
I can replace them one at the time.

You know I only ran 2 240V circuits to the back in my shop initially. One
for the air compressor I still don't have to replace the CH roll around, and
one for a table saw. Now I have 2 240V welders back there and a 230V CNC
Mill, and will soon add another 230V CNC mill back there. Also maybe a
large bed CNC router with a 230V spindle. I never thought in a million
years I would have so much fabrication equipment in my shop. Lots of 120V
outlets is fine, but plan a few extra 240V circuits as well. You never
know.

Sure but think about how the tools are going to be used. There is
little reason to have separate circuits for a table saw and shaper,
for instance. I tilt in favor of more 120V circuits and fewer 220V
(only so many slots in a box). I have mine wired with alternating
outlets on two circuits and six (so far) 120V circuits. Right now, I
only have two 220V circuits (1/tools, 1/dust collection). Lights, of
course, are on their own circuits.

On 02/17/2014 06:41 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 17 Feb 2014 13:14:26 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

"basilisk" wrote in message
...
I have been applying myself to getting the wiring installed in the shop,
so far the only part completed is the 120V for outlets.

All ran in emt, with 2 gang handy box every ten feet around the perimeter,
making it impossible to get more than 5 feet from 2 duplex outlets.
They are even closer in some areas where high usage is likely.
Making a total of 40 duplex outlets.
I may put a row of drops down the center of the roofline in
addition to wall outlets, they would be handy but also possibly in the
way at times.

I despise having to look for a place to plug something up.

One 2 circuit 10ga 240v line is complete along the back wall
to provide power to the bandsaw and planer, neither of which
is in place or hooked up presently. They are currently living on
my back porch, should be in their new home shortly.

I will run another double 240V circuit along part of the front wall
one to provide power to a new table saw ( if I ever decide what to buy)
and another just for future use.

I have ran many tens of thousands of feet of conduit in the distant past,
but it took me a while to get back in the swing of bending conduit.
Kinda like riding a bike, you never forget but it's a little shaky at
first.

also left to do is two runs for 3 phase, presently I have 6 pieces of 3
phase equipment that will be powered by a rotary
converter.

I've tried to stick with the rules on the wiring with the exception
of GFI breakers, so it would fail inspection on that point.

Which brings us to lighting, I'm still using a strip of carnival lights
for temporary lighting, which cosist of 25, 100 watt equivalent CFL
bulbs, this works and is a lot of light but it looks like and is ****,
time for permanent lighting.

I've pretty much settled on 6
low bay 400 watt metal halide. I considered 400 watt equiv
led lights but just can't bear the expense right now,
pay me now or pay me later. They are making mogul base
leds that will screw in metal halide fixtures after bypassing
the ballast, so hopefully the price of leds will come down
by the time the metal halide fixtures fail. If all that happens
I can replace them one at the time.

You know I only ran 2 240V circuits to the back in my shop initially. One
for the air compressor I still don't have to replace the CH roll around, and
one for a table saw. Now I have 2 240V welders back there and a 230V CNC
Mill, and will soon add another 230V CNC mill back there. Also maybe a
large bed CNC router with a 230V spindle. I never thought in a million
years I would have so much fabrication equipment in my shop. Lots of 120V
outlets is fine, but plan a few extra 240V circuits as well. You never
know.

Sure but think about how the tools are going to be used. There is
little reason to have separate circuits for a table saw and shaper,
for instance. I tilt in favor of more 120V circuits and fewer 220V
(only so many slots in a box). I have mine wired with alternating
outlets on two circuits and six (so far) 120V circuits. Right now, I
only have two 220V circuits (1/tools, 1/dust collection). Lights, of
course, are on their own circuits.

Yep, being a one man shop there is only so much you can run at a time.

basilisk

On 02/17/2014 03:43 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
basilisk wrote:

Everthing that will use 240v is accounted for, except for a welding
machine. I may go diesel for the welder as the machine I have now is a
buzz box and not good for much.


What kind of welding do you do? Your buzz box is not something I would
consider "not good for much", unless there's something wrong with it. If
you're working under 3/8" for 90% of your welding, then give due
consideration to the 120v welders. I think they're usually actually rated
to 1/4" but they will easily weld 3/8". Nice, because you can plug them in
anywhere. Most of us don't weld 1/2" often enough to warrant the extra
expense so the 120v welders work just fine. I have welded 1/2" with my
Hobart, but I did it in multiple passes . The nice part is I can throw it
in the truck or in the trunk and take it anywhere to do some welding. Using
flux core wire, I don't even need to take my argon bottle.

I guess I am being unkind to the buzz box, it has served for 30 years.

It is disappointing to use one of the 300 amp mig welders at work and
then use the buzz box at home, I'm ready to move up.

I might weld anything from 12ga to 1", I would like to be able to
weld thicker sections in a reasonable amount of time.

I like the suitcase welders too, just don't own one.

I would like to have tig capability too, I have never tig welded
but my son does, it would give him a chance to teach the old man something.

basilisk

On 2/17/2014 2:38 PM, -MIKE- wrote:

That's what always cracks me up about these home stores in a warehouse
type setting with terrible lighting. Whether it's flooring and tile, or
furniture, or whatever, even a beautiful product is going to look ugly
under those terrible green and orange and yellow lights.

I used the "pink" crayon for coloring grass in coloring books until I
learned how to read, but there's something about the lighting that
grocery stores put above their produce, particularly the bananas, that
offends my eye.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 17 Feb 2014 13:14:26 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

"basilisk" wrote in message
. ..
I have been applying myself to getting the wiring installed in the shop,
so far the only part completed is the 120V for outlets.

All ran in emt, with 2 gang handy box every ten feet around the
perimeter,
making it impossible to get more than 5 feet from 2 duplex outlets.
They are even closer in some areas where high usage is likely.
Making a total of 40 duplex outlets.
I may put a row of drops down the center of the roofline in
addition to wall outlets, they would be handy but also possibly in the
way at times.

I despise having to look for a place to plug something up.

One 2 circuit 10ga 240v line is complete along the back wall
to provide power to the bandsaw and planer, neither of which
is in place or hooked up presently. They are currently living on
my back porch, should be in their new home shortly.

I will run another double 240V circuit along part of the front wall
one to provide power to a new table saw ( if I ever decide what to buy)
and another just for future use.

I have ran many tens of thousands of feet of conduit in the distant
past,
but it took me a while to get back in the swing of bending conduit.
Kinda like riding a bike, you never forget but it's a little shaky at
first.

also left to do is two runs for 3 phase, presently I have 6 pieces of 3
phase equipment that will be powered by a rotary
converter.

I've tried to stick with the rules on the wiring with the exception
of GFI breakers, so it would fail inspection on that point.

Which brings us to lighting, I'm still using a strip of carnival lights
for temporary lighting, which cosist of 25, 100 watt equivalent CFL
bulbs, this works and is a lot of light but it looks like and is ****,
time for permanent lighting.

I've pretty much settled on 6
low bay 400 watt metal halide. I considered 400 watt equiv
led lights but just can't bear the expense right now,
pay me now or pay me later. They are making mogul base
leds that will screw in metal halide fixtures after bypassing
the ballast, so hopefully the price of leds will come down
by the time the metal halide fixtures fail. If all that happens
I can replace them one at the time.

You know I only ran 2 240V circuits to the back in my shop initially. One
for the air compressor I still don't have to replace the CH roll around,
and
one for a table saw. Now I have 2 240V welders back there and a 230V CNC
Mill, and will soon add another 230V CNC mill back there. Also maybe a
large bed CNC router with a 230V spindle. I never thought in a million
years I would have so much fabrication equipment in my shop. Lots of 120V
outlets is fine, but plan a few extra 240V circuits as well. You never
know.

Sure but think about how the tools are going to be used.

My air compressor can trip on anytime that one of the mills is running.
After I program them and press the start button I don't just stand there and
watch them run... Even 6 or 7 years ago I would never have thought I would
own a mill much less a CNC mill or a couple of them, a CNC router, and have
plans to both buy and build more. I can easily see my CNC router, my mini
mill, and my big mill all running at the same time with the compressor
tripping on and off as needed for oilers, brakes, etc. To be honest I am
not likely to be using the 220V RAS, but I can see my wanting to weld
something or do a quick cut on the table saw....

A couple extra 220V circuits or atleast the ability to tie them in quickly
and easily if needed can't hurt. You aren't going to find to many 5HP
motors designed to run on 110V.


There is
little reason to have separate circuits for a table saw and shaper,

I do have my RAS wired into the same circuit for my air compressor, but only
because the RAS will be rarely used.

for instance. I tilt in favor of more 120V circuits and fewer 220V
(only so many slots in a box). I have mine wired with alternating
outlets on two circuits and six (so far) 120V circuits. Right now, I
only have two 220V circuits (1/tools, 1/dust collection). Lights, of
course, are on their own circuits.

Also, remember that anyplace you have 240 and a neutral you also have 120V.




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"basilisk" wrote in message
...
On 02/17/2014 06:41 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 17 Feb 2014 13:14:26 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

"basilisk" wrote in message
...
I have been applying myself to getting the wiring installed in the
shop,
so far the only part completed is the 120V for outlets.

All ran in emt, with 2 gang handy box every ten feet around the
perimeter,
making it impossible to get more than 5 feet from 2 duplex outlets.
They are even closer in some areas where high usage is likely.
Making a total of 40 duplex outlets.
I may put a row of drops down the center of the roofline in
addition to wall outlets, they would be handy but also possibly in the
way at times.

I despise having to look for a place to plug something up.

One 2 circuit 10ga 240v line is complete along the back wall
to provide power to the bandsaw and planer, neither of which
is in place or hooked up presently. They are currently living on
my back porch, should be in their new home shortly.

I will run another double 240V circuit along part of the front wall
one to provide power to a new table saw ( if I ever decide what to buy)
and another just for future use.

I have ran many tens of thousands of feet of conduit in the distant
past,
but it took me a while to get back in the swing of bending conduit.
Kinda like riding a bike, you never forget but it's a little shaky at
first.

also left to do is two runs for 3 phase, presently I have 6 pieces of 3
phase equipment that will be powered by a rotary
converter.

I've tried to stick with the rules on the wiring with the exception
of GFI breakers, so it would fail inspection on that point.

Which brings us to lighting, I'm still using a strip of carnival lights
for temporary lighting, which cosist of 25, 100 watt equivalent CFL
bulbs, this works and is a lot of light but it looks like and is ****,
time for permanent lighting.

I've pretty much settled on 6
low bay 400 watt metal halide. I considered 400 watt equiv
led lights but just can't bear the expense right now,
pay me now or pay me later. They are making mogul base
leds that will screw in metal halide fixtures after bypassing
the ballast, so hopefully the price of leds will come down
by the time the metal halide fixtures fail. If all that happens
I can replace them one at the time.

You know I only ran 2 240V circuits to the back in my shop initially.
One
for the air compressor I still don't have to replace the CH roll around,
and
one for a table saw. Now I have 2 240V welders back there and a 230V
CNC
Mill, and will soon add another 230V CNC mill back there. Also maybe a
large bed CNC router with a 230V spindle. I never thought in a million
years I would have so much fabrication equipment in my shop. Lots of
120V
outlets is fine, but plan a few extra 240V circuits as well. You never
know.

Sure but think about how the tools are going to be used. There is
little reason to have separate circuits for a table saw and shaper,
for instance. I tilt in favor of more 120V circuits and fewer 220V
(only so many slots in a box). I have mine wired with alternating
outlets on two circuits and six (so far) 120V circuits. Right now, I
only have two 220V circuits (1/tools, 1/dust collection). Lights, of
course, are on their own circuits.

Yep, being a one man shop there is only so much you can run at a time.

Is there? LOL. I know. I know. I am a freak running so much CNC stuff in
my one man shop.





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On 02/18/2014 01:14 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:


Is there? LOL. I know. I know. I am a freak running so much CNC
stuff in my one man shop.


You got me there Bob, not having any CNC, I tend not to think in those
terms.

basilisk

On 2/17/2014 4:39 PM, basilisk wrote:
On Mon, 17 Feb 2014 17:08:14 +0000 (UTC), Larry Blanchard wrote:

On Mon, 17 Feb 2014 10:22:27 -0600, -MIKE- wrote:

I spent the extra money on fluorescent tubes that give off light the
color of an overcast day which is not too warm and not too cool, and
certainly not that gross green of most fluorescent tubes.

I use shop lights and have found that a combination of one "standard"
cool white tube and one GE "kitchen and bath" tube (more red) come pretty
close to house lighting with incandescents.

But incandescents are on their way out ...

Indeed, my living room has a mix of CFL, Led and incandescent light,
if you want to know what color something is you have to go outside.

It may be a moot point anyway, I was born without whatever it is that
regulates color matching and color suitability.

basilisk

Ah, so you are like the typical man, we can't color co-ordinate unless
we have that female gene.

--
Jeff

On Tue, 18 Feb 2014 00:12:52 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 17 Feb 2014 13:14:26 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

"basilisk" wrote in message
...
I have been applying myself to getting the wiring installed in the shop,
so far the only part completed is the 120V for outlets.

All ran in emt, with 2 gang handy box every ten feet around the
perimeter,
making it impossible to get more than 5 feet from 2 duplex outlets.
They are even closer in some areas where high usage is likely.
Making a total of 40 duplex outlets.
I may put a row of drops down the center of the roofline in
addition to wall outlets, they would be handy but also possibly in the
way at times.

I despise having to look for a place to plug something up.

One 2 circuit 10ga 240v line is complete along the back wall
to provide power to the bandsaw and planer, neither of which
is in place or hooked up presently. They are currently living on
my back porch, should be in their new home shortly.

I will run another double 240V circuit along part of the front wall
one to provide power to a new table saw ( if I ever decide what to buy)
and another just for future use.

I have ran many tens of thousands of feet of conduit in the distant
past,
but it took me a while to get back in the swing of bending conduit.
Kinda like riding a bike, you never forget but it's a little shaky at
first.

also left to do is two runs for 3 phase, presently I have 6 pieces of 3
phase equipment that will be powered by a rotary
converter.

I've tried to stick with the rules on the wiring with the exception
of GFI breakers, so it would fail inspection on that point.

Which brings us to lighting, I'm still using a strip of carnival lights
for temporary lighting, which cosist of 25, 100 watt equivalent CFL
bulbs, this works and is a lot of light but it looks like and is ****,
time for permanent lighting.

I've pretty much settled on 6
low bay 400 watt metal halide. I considered 400 watt equiv
led lights but just can't bear the expense right now,
pay me now or pay me later. They are making mogul base
leds that will screw in metal halide fixtures after bypassing
the ballast, so hopefully the price of leds will come down
by the time the metal halide fixtures fail. If all that happens
I can replace them one at the time.

You know I only ran 2 240V circuits to the back in my shop initially. One
for the air compressor I still don't have to replace the CH roll around,
and
one for a table saw. Now I have 2 240V welders back there and a 230V CNC
Mill, and will soon add another 230V CNC mill back there. Also maybe a
large bed CNC router with a 230V spindle. I never thought in a million
years I would have so much fabrication equipment in my shop. Lots of 120V
outlets is fine, but plan a few extra 240V circuits as well. You never
know.

Sure but think about how the tools are going to be used.

My air compressor can trip on anytime that one of the mills is running.
After I program them and press the start button I don't just stand there and
watch them run... Even 6 or 7 years ago I would never have thought I would
own a mill much less a CNC mill or a couple of them, a CNC router, and have
plans to both buy and build more. I can easily see my CNC router, my mini
mill, and my big mill all running at the same time with the compressor
tripping on and off as needed for oilers, brakes, etc. To be honest I am
not likely to be using the 220V RAS, but I can see my wanting to weld
something or do a quick cut on the table saw....

Yes, that's why I said one has to consider how one is using the tools.
Few of us have CNC machines, and fewer need 240V for them. However, I
think we can all use more 120V outlets.

A couple extra 220V circuits or atleast the ability to tie them in quickly
and easily if needed can't hurt. You aren't going to find to many 5HP
motors designed to run on 110V.

I'm not likely to find many 5HP motors in my basement without knowing
about them some time before they're needed, either. ;-)

As I said, the number of breaker slots is usually limited. Sure, one
can put subs in but unless they're needed it's a lot of bother and
expense.

There is
little reason to have separate circuits for a table saw and shaper,

I do have my RAS wired into the same circuit for my air compressor, but only
because the RAS will be rarely used.

I wouldn't even do that but I would wire it into the same circuit as
the table saw or band saw (if it were 240V, which it's not).

for instance. I tilt in favor of more 120V circuits and fewer 220V
(only so many slots in a box). I have mine wired with alternating
outlets on two circuits and six (so far) 120V circuits. Right now, I
only have two 220V circuits (1/tools, 1/dust collection). Lights, of
course, are on their own circuits.

Also, remember that anyplace you have 240 and a neutral you also have 120V.

The key phrase is "and a neutral". I never run neutrals. -3 wire is
about 2x the cost of -2 and it's a pain. No need.

"basilisk" wrote in message
news
On 02/18/2014 01:14 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:


Is there? LOL. I know. I know. I am a freak running so much CNC
stuff in my one man shop.


You got me there Bob, not having any CNC, I tend not to think in those
terms.

basilisk

Anyway, my point was that I never had any intention of running a CNC shop
8/9 years ago when I started building the shop, and even 5 years ago +/-
when I bought my first small CNC machine I never thought I would want more
power for more and bigger machines. Even my 110V machines are getting 220V
spindles. I even plan to retrofit my drill presses and manual mill drill to
220V 3 phase motors so I can speed control them with a VFD. I didn't even
know how to do stuff like that not that many years ago.

Its not big deal if your shop stays open to add wire and outlets, but if you
plan to have workbenches along all the walls with racks and pegboards above
all the way around like I do then it's a little more of a pain. If you are
sure of your usage then its no big deal anyway.









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On Tue, 18 Feb 2014 13:02:33 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 18 Feb 2014 00:12:52 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 17 Feb 2014 13:14:26 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

"basilisk" wrote in message
t...
I have been applying myself to getting the wiring installed in the shop,
so far the only part completed is the 120V for outlets.

All ran in emt, with 2 gang handy box every ten feet around the
perimeter,
making it impossible to get more than 5 feet from 2 duplex outlets.
They are even closer in some areas where high usage is likely.
Making a total of 40 duplex outlets.
I may put a row of drops down the center of the roofline in
addition to wall outlets, they would be handy but also possibly in the
way at times.

I despise having to look for a place to plug something up.

One 2 circuit 10ga 240v line is complete along the back wall
to provide power to the bandsaw and planer, neither of which
is in place or hooked up presently. They are currently living on
my back porch, should be in their new home shortly.

I will run another double 240V circuit along part of the front wall
one to provide power to a new table saw ( if I ever decide what to buy)
and another just for future use.

I have ran many tens of thousands of feet of conduit in the distant
past,
but it took me a while to get back in the swing of bending conduit.
Kinda like riding a bike, you never forget but it's a little shaky at
first.

also left to do is two runs for 3 phase, presently I have 6 pieces of 3
phase equipment that will be powered by a rotary
converter.

I've tried to stick with the rules on the wiring with the exception
of GFI breakers, so it would fail inspection on that point.

Which brings us to lighting, I'm still using a strip of carnival lights
for temporary lighting, which cosist of 25, 100 watt equivalent CFL
bulbs, this works and is a lot of light but it looks like and is ****,
time for permanent lighting.

I've pretty much settled on 6
low bay 400 watt metal halide. I considered 400 watt equiv
led lights but just can't bear the expense right now,
pay me now or pay me later. They are making mogul base
leds that will screw in metal halide fixtures after bypassing
the ballast, so hopefully the price of leds will come down
by the time the metal halide fixtures fail. If all that happens
I can replace them one at the time.

You know I only ran 2 240V circuits to the back in my shop initially. One
for the air compressor I still don't have to replace the CH roll around,
and
one for a table saw. Now I have 2 240V welders back there and a 230V CNC
Mill, and will soon add another 230V CNC mill back there. Also maybe a
large bed CNC router with a 230V spindle. I never thought in a million
years I would have so much fabrication equipment in my shop. Lots of 120V
outlets is fine, but plan a few extra 240V circuits as well. You never
know.

Sure but think about how the tools are going to be used.

My air compressor can trip on anytime that one of the mills is running.
After I program them and press the start button I don't just stand there and
watch them run... Even 6 or 7 years ago I would never have thought I would
own a mill much less a CNC mill or a couple of them, a CNC router, and have
plans to both buy and build more. I can easily see my CNC router, my mini
mill, and my big mill all running at the same time with the compressor
tripping on and off as needed for oilers, brakes, etc. To be honest I am
not likely to be using the 220V RAS, but I can see my wanting to weld
something or do a quick cut on the table saw....

Yes, that's why I said one has to consider how one is using the tools.
Few of us have CNC machines, and fewer need 240V for them. However, I
think we can all use more 120V outlets.

A couple extra 220V circuits or atleast the ability to tie them in quickly
and easily if needed can't hurt. You aren't going to find to many 5HP
motors designed to run on 110V.

I'm not likely to find many 5HP motors in my basement without knowing
about them some time before they're needed, either. ;-)

As I said, the number of breaker slots is usually limited. Sure, one
can put subs in but unless they're needed it's a lot of bother and
expense.

There is
little reason to have separate circuits for a table saw and shaper,

I do have my RAS wired into the same circuit for my air compressor, but only
because the RAS will be rarely used.

I wouldn't even do that but I would wire it into the same circuit as
the table saw or band saw (if it were 240V, which it's not).

for instance. I tilt in favor of more 120V circuits and fewer 220V
(only so many slots in a box). I have mine wired with alternating
outlets on two circuits and six (so far) 120V circuits. Right now, I
only have two 220V circuits (1/tools, 1/dust collection). Lights, of
course, are on their own circuits.

Also, remember that anyplace you have 240 and a neutral you also have 120V.

The key phrase is "and a neutral". I never run neutrals. -3 wire is
about 2x the cost of -2 and it's a pain. No need.

I do run a neutral on some 240 runs, I'm doing it in conduit and already
have
$1.35 or so a foot invested so another 20 cents a foot is no big deal, if
there is possibility it will ever be used.

Not going to do it in romex just for the heck of it.

basilisk

On Tue, 18 Feb 2014 13:25:20 -0600, basilisk
wrote:

On Tue, 18 Feb 2014 13:02:33 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 18 Feb 2014 00:12:52 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 17 Feb 2014 13:14:26 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

"basilisk" wrote in message
et...
I have been applying myself to getting the wiring installed in the shop,
so far the only part completed is the 120V for outlets.

All ran in emt, with 2 gang handy box every ten feet around the
perimeter,
making it impossible to get more than 5 feet from 2 duplex outlets.
They are even closer in some areas where high usage is likely.
Making a total of 40 duplex outlets.
I may put a row of drops down the center of the roofline in
addition to wall outlets, they would be handy but also possibly in the
way at times.

I despise having to look for a place to plug something up.

One 2 circuit 10ga 240v line is complete along the back wall
to provide power to the bandsaw and planer, neither of which
is in place or hooked up presently. They are currently living on
my back porch, should be in their new home shortly.

I will run another double 240V circuit along part of the front wall
one to provide power to a new table saw ( if I ever decide what to buy)
and another just for future use.

I have ran many tens of thousands of feet of conduit in the distant
past,
but it took me a while to get back in the swing of bending conduit.
Kinda like riding a bike, you never forget but it's a little shaky at
first.

also left to do is two runs for 3 phase, presently I have 6 pieces of 3
phase equipment that will be powered by a rotary
converter.

I've tried to stick with the rules on the wiring with the exception
of GFI breakers, so it would fail inspection on that point.

Which brings us to lighting, I'm still using a strip of carnival lights
for temporary lighting, which cosist of 25, 100 watt equivalent CFL
bulbs, this works and is a lot of light but it looks like and is ****,
time for permanent lighting.

I've pretty much settled on 6
low bay 400 watt metal halide. I considered 400 watt equiv
led lights but just can't bear the expense right now,
pay me now or pay me later. They are making mogul base
leds that will screw in metal halide fixtures after bypassing
the ballast, so hopefully the price of leds will come down
by the time the metal halide fixtures fail. If all that happens
I can replace them one at the time.

You know I only ran 2 240V circuits to the back in my shop initially. One
for the air compressor I still don't have to replace the CH roll around,
and
one for a table saw. Now I have 2 240V welders back there and a 230V CNC
Mill, and will soon add another 230V CNC mill back there. Also maybe a
large bed CNC router with a 230V spindle. I never thought in a million
years I would have so much fabrication equipment in my shop. Lots of 120V
outlets is fine, but plan a few extra 240V circuits as well. You never
know.

Sure but think about how the tools are going to be used.

My air compressor can trip on anytime that one of the mills is running.
After I program them and press the start button I don't just stand there and
watch them run... Even 6 or 7 years ago I would never have thought I would
own a mill much less a CNC mill or a couple of them, a CNC router, and have
plans to both buy and build more. I can easily see my CNC router, my mini
mill, and my big mill all running at the same time with the compressor
tripping on and off as needed for oilers, brakes, etc. To be honest I am
not likely to be using the 220V RAS, but I can see my wanting to weld
something or do a quick cut on the table saw....

Yes, that's why I said one has to consider how one is using the tools.
Few of us have CNC machines, and fewer need 240V for them. However, I
think we can all use more 120V outlets.

A couple extra 220V circuits or atleast the ability to tie them in quickly
and easily if needed can't hurt. You aren't going to find to many 5HP
motors designed to run on 110V.

I'm not likely to find many 5HP motors in my basement without knowing
about them some time before they're needed, either. ;-)

As I said, the number of breaker slots is usually limited. Sure, one
can put subs in but unless they're needed it's a lot of bother and
expense.

There is
little reason to have separate circuits for a table saw and shaper,

I do have my RAS wired into the same circuit for my air compressor, but only
because the RAS will be rarely used.

I wouldn't even do that but I would wire it into the same circuit as
the table saw or band saw (if it were 240V, which it's not).

for instance. I tilt in favor of more 120V circuits and fewer 220V
(only so many slots in a box). I have mine wired with alternating
outlets on two circuits and six (so far) 120V circuits. Right now, I
only have two 220V circuits (1/tools, 1/dust collection). Lights, of
course, are on their own circuits.

Also, remember that anyplace you have 240 and a neutral you also have 120V.

The key phrase is "and a neutral". I never run neutrals. -3 wire is
about 2x the cost of -2 and it's a pain. No need.

I do run a neutral on some 240 runs, I'm doing it in conduit and already
have
$1.35 or so a foot invested so another 20 cents a foot is no big deal, if
there is possibility it will ever be used.

No need for conduit, either. ;-) If you added the cost of the
conduit, you're paying a lot more than that.

Not going to do it in romex just for the heck of it.

Prezactly.

basilisk wrote:

I've pretty much settled on 6
low bay 400 watt metal halide.
----------------------------------------------
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote:

In our warehouse we had metal halide and the power company paid us
to take them out and replace them with 4 tube high efficiency
fluorescent.
The ones we had were 1000 watt and we are getting better light with
less than 200 watts.

The old lights had bulbs that cost $100 too. Now, all four would
cost about $16.
------------------------------------------------------

"Lew Hodgett" wrote:

Having designed and sold a lot of industrial lighting systems in a
past life,
will offer the following:

Metal halide is a good lamp source if you are an automotive
dealership
or a sports stadium.

Color rendition is good and the hours of operation are limited.

Metal halide is a POOR lamp source if you are an industrial area.

Metal halide has high initial lumen output; however, they have short
useful
life and high lumen depreciation.

Ed Pawlowski's suggestion of 4 tube high efficiency fluorescent
luminaires
is a good one.

Run 2 circuits to each fixture and you can easily have 2 level
lighting.

Have fun.
--------------------------------------------------------
An update:

4 tube high efficiency fluorescent luminaires are available in a 1 x 4
tube
configuration used in "troffer" fixtures for office lighting in a 24"
x 48" luminaire
and a 2 x 2 tube configuration used for industrial lighting in a 12" x
96" luminaire.

Either luminaire has 4 lamps and 2 ballasts in a single unit.

My choice would be the 12" x 96" luminaire laid end to end to form a
row for a shop.

Using 2 circuits, you can wire alternate lamps on a circuit providing
a 50%
and 100% lighting for the whole shop.

Have fun.


Lew

On 2/17/2014 2:10 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
basilisk wrote:

I've pretty much settled on 6
low bay 400 watt metal halide.
----------------------------------------------
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote:

In our warehouse we had metal halide and the power company paid us
to take them out and replace them with 4 tube high efficiency
fluorescent.
The ones we had were 1000 watt and we are getting better light with
less than 200 watts.

The old lights had bulbs that cost $100 too. Now, all four would
cost about $16.
------------------------------------------------------
Having designed and sold a lot of industrial lighting systems in a
past life,
will offer the following:

Metal halide is a good lamp source if you are an automotive dealership
or a sports stadium.

Color rendition is good and the hours of operation are limited.

Metal halide is a POOR lamp source if you are an industrial area.

Metal halide has high initial lumen output; however, they have short
useful
life and high lumen depreciation.

Ed Pawlowski's suggestion of 4 tube high efficiency fluorescent
luminaires
is a good one.

Run 2 circuits to each fixture and you can easily have 2 level
lighting.

Have fun.

Lew




Yea, wish I had run 2 ckts to my 4 bulb t8 fixtures. There are times I
want less light. I have 2 ckts, but it's to different units. Would have
made sense to make it 2 or 4 bulbs.

--
Jeff