For those of you who use 4-foot T8 bulbs, I just saw T8s with LEDs. Much brighter, whiter light. The guy who handles them at my lighting supply store was off today, so I don't know the price (next stop Google). First impression -- a big improvement, especially for this old guy's eyes.

Larry

On Saturday, April 13, 2013 7:13:54 PM UTC-5, Gramp's shop wrote:
For those of you who use 4-foot T8 bulbs, I just saw T8s with LEDs. Much brighter, whiter light. The guy who handles them at my lighting supply store was off today, so I don't know the price (next stop Google). First impression -- a big improvement, especially for this old guy's eyes.



Larry

Postscript from Google search: Ouch. $30 to $50 per unit depending on the wattage. I can think of better things to do with that level of investment.

"Gramp's shop" wrote in
:

On Saturday, April 13, 2013 7:13:54 PM UTC-5, Gramp's shop wrote:
For those of you who use 4-foot T8 bulbs, I just saw T8s with LEDs.
Much
brighter, whiter light. The guy who handles them at my lighting
supply store was off today, so I don't know the price (next stop
Google). First impression -- a big improvement, especially for this
old guy's eyes.



Larry

Postscript from Google search: Ouch. $30 to $50 per unit depending on
the wattage. I can think of better things to do with that level of
investment.


They'll come down to reasonable levels in about 10 years... I've noted
LED bulbs in the $15-20 range on sale/clearance lately, where they're
normally about $30-40.

FWIW, sometimes color temperature makes a big difference. One room seems
very bright now with 6500K bulbs instead of the old 3000K bulbs. It
might be worth trying a "daylight" bulb (or tube) and seeing how you like
it.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

Gramp's shop wrote:
For those of you who use 4-foot T8 bulbs, I just saw T8s with LEDs. Much brighter, whiter light. The guy who handles them at my lighting supply store was off today, so I don't know the price (next stop Google). First impression -- a big improvement, especially for this old guy's eyes.

Larry

I just finished changing out my 8' T12's to T8 in the unheated half of
my shop. I got tired of the buzzing and flickering in the winter.
Also changed out the one in the un-walled shed. On the coldest nights
(Georgia) the come on instantly.

I also need a lot of light. Probably will get my cataracts changed
out in the next year.
LED's are nice in a good flashlight, but to light the whole shop-- not
ready for that yet.

--
 GW Ross 

 When seconds count, the cops are only 
 minutes away. 

I wouldn't like these to be my sole source of light in a shop. LEDs I
can see getting at some time, but the little curly bulbs do fine with
enough size and wattage.

I have a hard time with folks when I do a kitchen or bathroom and we
get to lights. Cooking and food prep under the really white, high
Kelvin LEDs can yield some pretty strange results as they distort the
color band so badly. Makeup application isn't very good as the skin
tones take on a definite whitish/blue tint.

Folks want the light the higher Kelvin bulbs bring as they don't want
to pay for a couple more cans in the ceiling. For me, I don't want my
cabinets, tops, and floors to look washed out. Nor do I want them to
see the color distortions that could make them unhappy with their new
room.

And in a shop, I can't even imagine how ticked off I would be if I
didn't know that and I was doing staining/coloring/finishing in my
shop with that heavy dose of chromatic blue instead of something in a
more normal color range. Imagine finishing something in your
brilliantly lit shop with the hot white bulbs and then putting that
piece into a more warmly lit environment. *ouch*

Robert

wrote:
I wouldn't like these to be my sole source of light in a shop. LEDs I
can see getting at some time, but the little curly bulbs do fine with
enough size and wattage.

And in a shop, I can't even imagine how ticked off I would be if I
didn't know that and I was doing staining/coloring/finishing in my
shop with that heavy dose of chromatic blue instead of something in a
more normal color range. Imagine finishing something in your
brilliantly lit shop with the hot white bulbs and then putting that
piece into a more warmly lit environment. *ouch*


I don't know what the temperature ratings were on these bulbs, but I did see
some LED cans at Home Depot that were remarkably like a standard
incandescent bulb. They threw off a really strong beam of light, and were a
color like what we are used to. When they first came out they were around
$50 each, and within a year they had come down almost 50%. I remember
looking into one from almost completely across the store, and wincing
because of how bright the light was when I looked directly into it. This
particular one was mounted on a piece of plywood, and pointed so that you
looked directly into the can when you walked up to it.

You are right though - color rendition is key. Lots of room for surprises
when using lighting that is out of balance.

--

-Mike-

On 4/13/2013 9:10 PM, Puckdropper wrote:


They'll come down to reasonable levels in about 10 years... I've noted
LED bulbs in the $15-20 range on sale/clearance lately, where they're
normally about $30-40.

FWIW, sometimes color temperature makes a big difference. One room seems
very bright now with 6500K bulbs instead of the old 3000K bulbs. It
might be worth trying a "daylight" bulb (or tube) and seeing how you like
it.

Puckdropper


That would be my suggestion. LEDs are great for longevity and low
wattage cost but lighting brightness and K values have wider range
within fluorescent.

We use daylight bulbs throughout the house and in my garage, usually
5500K or 6500K. It makes a world of difference compared to the warmer
yellow hue colors.

On Sat, 13 Apr 2013 21:39:57 -0400, G. Ross wrote:

I also need a lot of light. Probably will get my cataracts changed out
in the next year.

I had cataract surgery last year. I didn't notice any increase in light
levels, but as the old jingle goes "You'll wonder where the yellow
went ...".

--
When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and
carrying a cross.

On Sun, 14 Apr 2013 01:10:09 +0000, Puckdropper wrote:

FWIW, sometimes color temperature makes a big difference. One room
seems very bright now with 6500K bulbs instead of the old 3000K bulbs.
It might be worth trying a "daylight" bulb (or tube) and seeing how you
like it.

I liked the result I got when I combined a cool white bulb with a GE
kitchen & bath bulb in the same fixture. But that's a subjective
judgement.



--
When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and
carrying a cross.





--
When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and
carrying a cross.

"Gramp's shop" wrote in
:

For those of you who use 4-foot T8 bulbs, I just saw T8s with LEDs.
Much brighter, whiter light. The guy who handles them at my lighting
supply store was off today, so I don't know the price (next stop
Google). First impression -- a big improvement, especially for this
old guy's eyes.

Larry

When I googled "T8s with LEDs" the hits said that LEDs were much less
efficient than T8 fluorescents ... So I don't know ...

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On 4/14/2013 12:42 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Sat, 13 Apr 2013 21:39:57 -0400, G. Ross wrote:

I also need a lot of light. Probably will get my cataracts changed out
in the next year.

I had cataract surgery last year. I didn't notice any increase in light
levels, but as the old jingle goes "You'll wonder where the yellow
went ...".

I had cataract surgery last year too. I did notice things were a lot
less dark. I only did one eye. Still holding on to what I have for the
other.

I had added all these articulated arm lights because I couldn't see, now
I don't need them as much.

My T8's take a while to warm up to full light, wondering how some of
your lights are almost instant on... Even in the basement, around 56
most winter...


--
Jeff

woodchucker wrote in
:

*snip*


My T8's take a while to warm up to full light, wondering how some of
your lights are almost instant on... Even in the basement, around 56
most winter...



Much of the magic's in the ballast. I replaced 6 of them some time ago
with electronic instant-on ballasts and they work great. The old ones
would buzz and after a while I could feel a strain on my eyes. The new
ones completely eliminated this. (I also changed to 6500K lights at the
same time.)

Some CFLs are instant on, but the majority are not. This makes them
useless for closets or other places where the light is needed immediately
for only a minute or two.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

On Sun, 14 Apr 2013 01:14:13 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

I wouldn't like these to be my sole source of light in a shop. LEDs I
can see getting at some time, but the little curly bulbs do fine with
enough size and wattage.

I have a hard time with folks when I do a kitchen or bathroom and we
get to lights. Cooking and food prep under the really white, high
Kelvin LEDs can yield some pretty strange results as they distort the
color band so badly. Makeup application isn't very good as the skin
tones take on a definite whitish/blue tint.

Folks want the light the higher Kelvin bulbs bring as they don't want
to pay for a couple more cans in the ceiling. For me, I don't want my
cabinets, tops, and floors to look washed out. Nor do I want them to
see the color distortions that could make them unhappy with their new
room.

And in a shop, I can't even imagine how ticked off I would be if I
didn't know that and I was doing staining/coloring/finishing in my
shop with that heavy dose of chromatic blue instead of something in a
more normal color range. Imagine finishing something in your
brilliantly lit shop with the hot white bulbs and then putting that
piece into a more warmly lit environment. *ouch*

Robert

In another life we did a lot of commercial/industrial lighting
retrofits. We alway did some demo areas first so they could see how
the different Kelvin temperature lamps effected how wood, carpet, and
paints appearance not to mention people. We let them make the choice.

Mike M

Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Sat, 13 Apr 2013 21:39:57 -0400, G. Ross wrote:

I also need a lot of light. Probably will get my cataracts changed out
in the next year.

I had cataract surgery last year. I didn't notice any increase in light
levels, but as the old jingle goes "You'll wonder where the yellow
went ...".

My mom had hers done about 6 years ago (age 95) and for the first time
in memory she asked for sunglasses. She is 101 now and no longer drives.

--
 GW Ross 

 When seconds count, the cops are only 
 minutes away. 

On 4/13/2013 7:21 PM, Gramp's shop wrote:
On Saturday, April 13, 2013 7:13:54 PM UTC-5, Gramp's shop wrote:
For those of you who use 4-foot T8 bulbs, I just saw T8s with LEDs. Much brighter, whiter light. The guy who handles them at my lighting supply store was off today, so I don't know the price (next stop Google). First impression -- a big improvement, especially for this old guy's eyes.



Larry

Postscript from Google search: Ouch. $30 to $50 per unit depending on the wattage. I can think of better things to do with that level of investment.


Yeah, me too. I'll just keep using the cool white t-12's.


--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

woodchucker wrote:


My T8's take a while to warm up to full light, wondering how some of
your lights are almost instant on... Even in the basement, around 56
most winter...

My garage is all T8 now with zero degree balasts. They start immediately,
even in the coldest NE winter weather, but like your experience, they take a
few minutes to come to full force. They don't flicker at all, it's just
that they are only at about 75-80% when they come on in the very cold
weather. In less than 5 minutes they're at full tilt.

--

-Mike-

Steve Barker wrote:


Yeah, me too. I'll just keep using the cool white t-12's.

No man! Make the switch to daylight T8's. You'll love the difference.

--

-Mike-

wrote

I wouldn't like these to be my sole source of light in a shop. LEDs
I
can see getting at some time, but the little curly bulbs do fine
with
enough size and wattage.

I have a hard time with folks when I do a kitchen or bathroom and we
get to lights. Cooking and food prep under the really white, high
Kelvin LEDs can yield some pretty strange results as they distort
the
color band so badly. Makeup application isn't very good as the skin
tones take on a definite whitish/blue tint.

Folks want the light the higher Kelvin bulbs bring as they don't
want
to pay for a couple more cans in the ceiling. For me, I don't want
my
cabinets, tops, and floors to look washed out. Nor do I want them
to
see the color distortions that could make them unhappy with their
new
room.

And in a shop, I can't even imagine how ticked off I would be if I
didn't know that and I was doing staining/coloring/finishing in my
shop with that heavy dose of chromatic blue instead of something in
a
more normal color range. Imagine finishing something in your
brilliantly lit shop with the hot white bulbs and then putting that
piece into a more warmly lit environment. *ouch*
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Life goes on.

As I read Robert's post above, I'm reminded of my experiences in the
High Intensity Discharge lighting business.

Incandescent lamps provide good color rendition, but are horribly
inefficient (approximately 18 lumens/watt), and less than 1,000 hour
lamp life.

Around 1940, fluorescent lighting was introduced at a Worlds Fair.
These lamps offered improved efficiency (approximately 60 lumens/watt,
longer life, but at a price, lousy color rendition.

Everything looked "washed out".

This resulted in lamps with names like "daylight", "cool white" and
"warm white" to name a few.

Next came the High Intensity Discharge lamp sources, Mercury,
Multi-Vapor (Metal Halide), low pressure sodium, and finally
high pressure sodium (Lucalox).

Mercury had the same color rendition problems as fluorescent,
but with a 24,000 hour lamp life, found a home in street lighting and
high bay industrial applications.

Multi-Vapor provides higher output (80 lumens/watt),
good color rendition, but has relatively short life.

It has found a home in sports stadium and car dealership lighting
applications.

Anyplace where good color rendition is required and short life is
acceptable.

Low pressure sodium does not provide a complete color spectrum
and had limited success in Europe and the USA for roadway lighting
applications, but has basically become non-existent in the last
15-20 years.

Which brings us to high pressure sodium (Lucalox).

High pressure sodium (Lucalox) offers high output (100 lumens/watt),
long life (20,000 hours), and high lamp efficiency.

High pressure sodium (Lucalox) does provide a complete color
spectrum; however, there is and abundance of red and yellow hues
which is very close to natural sun light, but some people find
unacceptable.

Again, most of the applications are industrial, parking lot and
roadway.

And now we have LEDs entering the market facing the same color
rendition acceptance problems faced by all the preceding lamp sources.

It's a case of what comes around goes around.

It will be interesting to see where LED lamp sources will go.

Lew