Hopefully at a more reasonable level of discussion that a recent
go-round.

Got power in finally.

Starting to think seriously about lighting - tossed up a few temporaries
today. Seems like non-HO T5 fluorescent is the peak of lumens per watt
(about 100) that you can actually buy at present, though it's not nearly
as well distributed as T8. Homely&Desperate has a 2-bulb 4 foot (F28T5)
striplight with bulbs for about $35 they started carrying recently,
though it's all chinky China parts (surprise, surprise.)

There are a lot of expensive China T5 strip light fixtures on the web,
and endless T5HO high bay fixtures, but T5HO is not quite as efficient
as regular T5 - so I'd rather have the light more distributed across the
ceiling and more efficient as well without the HO version, given I only
have 11.5 feet and 8 feet to work with for ceiling heights. I gather the
light levels will be better if I can lower the fixtures down from the
ceiling and allow some uplight, but don't want to go too far, since part
of the point of the 11.5 foot ceiling is to prevent or reduce
lumber/light-fixture interaction (crunch, zap.)

There seem to be very few (at least as found on web) standard light
fixtures with the standard T5 bulbs as yet, other than some really
spendy options aimed at people willing to spend in excess of $150 for a
single 4 foot light fixture in the name of going green. I'm more
interested in _saving_ green (in the form of my power bill) than in
having absurd amounts of capital tied up in overpriced fixtures -
wondering if anyone has tripped across a source of utilitarian fixtures
at a utilitarian price in this bulb type - if at all possible, without
resorting to China.

I need to go see what I can do about getting an account at the local
electrical distributor and see what they have, since I've done most of
what I needed/wanted my electrician for, and I noted that said
distributor beat the heck out of Homely on better quality stuff when he
was ordering it - not too surprising, and their website implies that
mere humans can get accounts, but must do so in person. Ordering via my
electrician removes the ability to shop for best price (somethings they
are way expensive on - PVC weatherheads, for instance), and adds in his
time (which costs me money) and bother to do the ordering - not sensible
for the parts of the work I'm doing.

Since this is new lighting, I don't have much I could retrofit, and I'm
not convinced that retrofitting would actually cost less than buying new
in most cases - though I do have an old 3-place porcelain reflector
shop-light that I will probably cut the openings on to make it fit 6
tubes worth of T5 (which are slightly shorter than T12 & T8) for a
serious task light (eyes not getting any younger here) or that might be
the place to give up a few percentage points of efficiency and lay in
the T5HOs.

I know the LED guys have gotten much better numbers (180+) recently in
the lab, but the ones that are actually for sale as replacement light
bulbs are miserable - 60 lumens per watt or less on the ones I've
checked, and very pricey.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

On Mon, 18 Jan 2010 00:21:55 -0500, Ecnerwal
wrote:

Hopefully at a more reasonable level of discussion that a recent
go-round.

Got power in finally.

Starting to think seriously about lighting - tossed up a few temporaries
today. Seems like non-HO T5 fluorescent is the peak of lumens per watt
(about 100) that you can actually buy at present, though it's not nearly
as well distributed as T8. Homely&Desperate has a 2-bulb 4 foot (F28T5)
striplight with bulbs for about $35 they started carrying recently,
though it's all chinky China parts (surprise, surprise.)

Gauge your 'ultimate lumens per watt' against the price premium of
the fixture - there IS such a thing as too efficient. If the payback
is 10 years and the fixture is going to last 12 and need a ballast or
replacement, it isn't a deal.

T-8 fluorescent with electronic ballasts might be less elegant and
slightly less efficient, but it's usually a lot less money.

There are a lot of expensive China T5 strip light fixtures on the web,
and endless T5HO high bay fixtures, but T5HO is not quite as efficient
as regular T5 - so I'd rather have the light more distributed across the
ceiling and more efficient as well without the HO version, given I only
have 11.5 feet and 8 feet to work with for ceiling heights. I gather the
light levels will be better if I can lower the fixtures down from the
ceiling and allow some uplight, but don't want to go too far, since part
of the point of the 11.5 foot ceiling is to prevent or reduce
lumber/light-fixture interaction (crunch, zap.)

That's what the tube guards are for - or better yet, order them as
Wrap fixtures and get a polycarbonate diffuser over the lamps.

There seem to be very few (at least as found on web) standard light
fixtures with the standard T5 bulbs as yet, other than some really
spendy options aimed at people willing to spend in excess of $150 for a
single 4 foot light fixture in the name of going green. I'm more
interested in _saving_ green (in the form of my power bill) than in
having absurd amounts of capital tied up in overpriced fixtures -
wondering if anyone has tripped across a source of utilitarian fixtures
at a utilitarian price in this bulb type - if at all possible, without
resorting to China.

It's getting very difficult to avoid China, but when you buy through
the US Manufacturers you get higher-quality China that has been QA
Checked a lot closer, and they'll warranty if they blow up too soon.

I need to go see what I can do about getting an account at the local
electrical distributor and see what they have, since I've done most of
what I needed/wanted my electrician for, and I noted that said
distributor beat the heck out of Homely on better quality stuff when he
was ordering it - not too surprising, and their website implies that
mere humans can get accounts, but must do so in person. Ordering via my
electrician removes the ability to shop for best price (somethings they
are way expensive on - PVC weatherheads, for instance), and adds in his
time (which costs me money) and bother to do the ordering - not sensible
for the parts of the work I'm doing.

When we have good customers with a big job coming up that they
aren't set in stone as to what they want, I will call the wholesale
house and tell them I'm sending the customer over, and give them our
price. That saves me a LOT of time getting current copies of all the
catalogs, and relaying questions and finding answers and sweating all
the details and all the possible options...

The customer knows what they want, the Wholesale House knows what
they have and can get, and they can get on the same page and get it
done a whole lot faster and easier than if I have to play go-between.

Then the Wholesaler picks up the pallet of lights and lamps at the
Mfgr and drops them off at the customers, and I just show up and hang
them. Win-Win.

Go look at E-conolight (a division of Ruud Lighting) for shop stuff.
www.e-conolight.com They have the 4-6-8 light T-5 Low Bay
Replacements, but they aren't that much cheaper.

I would go with standard T-8 Wraps with electronic ballasts, or Shop
Light strips with tube guards. T-8 isn't quite as efficient as T-5,
but they cost a whole lot less to buy and relamp. Give it a year or
two and that may change, but you want to do this now...

With lumber, Wraps are better because it'll keep most of the sawdust
out. It gets everywhere.

Since this is new lighting, I don't have much I could retrofit, and I'm
not convinced that retrofitting would actually cost less than buying new
in most cases - though I do have an old 3-place porcelain reflector
shop-light that I will probably cut the openings on to make it fit 6
tubes worth of T5 (which are slightly shorter than T12 & T8) for a
serious task light (eyes not getting any younger here) or that might be
the place to give up a few percentage points of efficiency and lay in
the T5HOs.

Retrofit with 3 lamps and a T-8 electronic ballast. Still plenty of
light.

I know the LED guys have gotten much better numbers (180+) recently in
the lab, but the ones that are actually for sale as replacement light
bulbs are miserable - 60 lumens per watt or less on the ones I've
checked, and very pricey.

LED's are still a fad. I have a few places where they work well,
but they require full scaffolding to change the lights and it's worth
the premium price to get the lamp life - fool architects never
consider access for maintenance and always put non-Pole Change can
fixtures over an open staircase...

-- Bruce --