I was just reading this article about casing doors (not that I needed to
read it of course...just because I was curious).

http://www.thisiscarpentry.com/2012/...-doors-part-3/


My door is about 7' high, the molding is 2" wide and 1.25" thick.

My strategy was that I would fit and mark the moldings to size, cut
them with a hand miter saw I have, and nail it up. Since I'm not
nailing through drywall, I figured 2.5" finish nails would be
appropriate. If 2" finish nails would be suitable, I happen to have
those on hand (please comment).

I was even planning to go through the extra effort of priming the ends,
before I nailed it up.

This isn't adequate for the fellow who wrote the article. He wants to
tack it down, and then glue his molding using "spring clamps" which I
have never seen before, and then go back and nail it down. Hell, I
think I'll be wrestling the molding to the wall (as I bend around two of
my drywall seems! : )

I do like his idea of using a "spacer" tool, to make the reveal
perfectly uniform. I would not have thought of that, and I can improvise
that.

I wanted to share these words in case anyone is willing to comment on
anything. I intend to go buy the molding tomorrow morning. The stuff I
ripped down 3 years ago seemed ratty at the time (and was put up by
someone even less ambitious than I am!) I guess that partially
addresses my concerns. I suppose there are lots of ways to address most
any project. Whatever I do, it will be better than it was!
: )

The fellow in the article even blunted or cut off the ends of the nails
to keep from splitting the wood. Is that a technique you use? To my
intuition, it seems like it might make more sense for much thinner molding.

Cheers,
Bill

On Monday, July 29, 2013 10:00:40 PM UTC-5, Bill wrote:


My door is about 7' high, the molding is 2" wide and 1.25" thick.

Is this brick or masonry molding? 1 1/4" this is pretty thick for door trims unless it is for a masonry/rock application.


My strategy was that I would fit and mark the moldings to size, cut

them with a hand miter saw I have, and nail it up. Since I'm not

nailing through drywall, I figured 2.5" finish nails would be

appropriate. If 2" finish nails would be suitable, I happen to have

those on hand (please comment).

In this instance, probably everyone here learned differently. For me, I learned that you need to have at least 2/3rd more nail than the thickness of the material you are nailing. In some cases this formula is part of the building codes for certain applications.

Trims and moldings are different and there are other variables. If you when I put up a thick trim like your are using, I use an 8d finish (2 1/2") if I am nailing directly to the frame. If I am going over sheetrock I will use 10d due to the fact that you will be nailing through an additional 1/2" of material that will not hold a nail.

Having hung a few thousand doors (literally), I have never seen anyone use spring clamps on door trim.

As far as finger savers go, they can be handy and I used them myself when I was learning to drive nails. As far as buying a special nail placement tool to work around hinge placement. put your nails on either side of the hinge where you have the room to drive the nail. There is no reason to put them right on the hinge.

Blunting the nails works on some trims. Not so much anymore as the hardwoods we get that make up stock trims are hard enough to be brittle. With that in mind, I take a nail the size of the nails I am driving and clip the head off and use it as a drill bit for small nails, say 3d to 4d. Anything other than those sizes, I use a drill bit that is a little smaller than the nail in diameter and then drill only through the trim by a little bit. Today's nails are made from am mix of steel scrap, and blunting them will cause them to bend, creating another problem when driving the nail.

I don't use adhesive on door trims. I don't know what that guy thinks he will be achieving by doing that on end joints. If I want then to stay and I think they need help, I line the joint up where I want it, drill a pilot hole from the top and then nail down where the nail can't be seen. This also eliminates that spring clamp business.

For inside use if I am hand nailing, I drill pilot holes for the jamb side and use 4d finish. For the wall side, I use 8d finish. But this is for 1/2" thick trim. Your instance will be different. Put your nails on the jamb side about 10" apart on a shimmed door, and about 14" on the wall side. On non shimmed doors (I don't shim doors 24" or less) then tighten up those measurements by 2" each side.

Take your time when installing your casing. On a proper door installation, the casing is an important, integral part of the door structure. The installation of the casing completes a "box", which will hold the jamb true and help prevent the torque created from use from pulling the door out of adjustment. I don't use as many nails as that guy you referenced does since I usually shim most doors, but I am particularly careful to put nails on either sides of the hinges on both sides of the casing, and strike side gets the same treatment as well.

Robert

"Bill" wrote in message

I was just reading this article about casing doors (not
that I needed to read it of course...just because I was
curious).
http://www.thisiscarpentry.com/2012/...-doors-part-3/


My door is about 7' high, the molding is 2" wide and
1.25" thick.
My strategy was that I would fit and mark the moldings
to size, cut them with a hand miter saw I have, and nail it up. Since
I'm not nailing through drywall, I figured 2.5" finish nails
would be appropriate. If 2" finish nails would be suitable, I
happen to have those on hand (please comment).

I was even planning to go through the extra effort of
priming the ends, before I nailed it up.

This isn't adequate for the fellow who wrote the article.
He wants to tack it down, and then glue his molding using
"spring clamps" which I have never seen before, and then go back and nail
it
down. Hell, I think I'll be wrestling the molding to the wall (as I
bend around two of my drywall seems! : )

I do like his idea of using a "spacer" tool, to make the
reveal perfectly uniform. I would not have thought of that, and
I can improvise that.

I wanted to share these words in case anyone is willing
to comment on anything. I intend to go buy the molding
tomorrow morning. The stuff I ripped down 3 years ago
seemed ratty at the time (and was put up by someone even
less ambitious than I am!) I guess that partially addresses my concerns.
I suppose there are lots of ways
to address most any project. Whatever I do, it will be
better than it was!
)

The fellow in the article even blunted or cut off the
ends of the nails to keep from splitting the wood. Is that a technique
you
use? To my intuition, it seems like it might make more
sense for much thinner molding.

If your door is "standard", it is 80". A molding 1.25 thick and 2" wide is
wierd. Is this a casing mold or a brick mold? If for an interior passage
door, I sure wouldn't want it.

Either of your nail lengths should be fine. I've done very few doors other
than mine but I prefer to use screws and face grain plugs.

I've never glued mitered casing (in fact, I've rarely used mitered casing)
but it would help keep them together. Those spring clamps are often used by
picture framers; I never used them when I was making same because they leave
deep gouges.

Whether or not one needs/should blunt nail points depends upon whether or
not what you are nailing through tends to split.
____________________________

In a perfect world, the side jambs would be perfectly vertical and parallel
to each other and they would be at right angles to the top jamb; all would
be flush to the wall surface on each side.

It isn't a perfect world.

Because it isn't a perfect world is why casings are relieved on the
back...the hollow between the two edges helps bridge too thick drywall.
That relief also means that you need to nail through the non-relieved part
to avoid the possibility of splitting the casing down the middle.

Because it isn't a perfect world is also the reason I avoid mitering casing.
Instead, I use corner blocks...the ends of the casings are cut square and of
the proper length to align with the reveal. The open square left is then
filled with a slightly thicker and larger square piece of wood; thicker so
it will be proud of the jambs; larger so it will be wider than the jambs on
both edges. A "stopper". Corner blocks often have a decorative rosette; I
don't have a rosettes cutter so I just rout a decorative edge all around.

Final thought: if the mold you intend to use is actually 1.25 x 2, how are
you going to open the door? The pivot point of the door hinges should be
far enough out so that the door can open fully without interference from the
molding.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On 7/30/2013 5:57 AM, wrote:
On Monday, July 29, 2013 10:00:40 PM UTC-5, Bill wrote:


My door is about 7' high, the molding is 2" wide and 1.25" thick.

Is this brick or masonry molding? 1 1/4" this is pretty thick for door trims unless it is for a masonry/rock application.


My strategy was that I would fit and mark the moldings to size, cut

them with a hand miter saw I have, and nail it up. Since I'm not

nailing through drywall, I figured 2.5" finish nails would be

appropriate. If 2" finish nails would be suitable, I happen to have

those on hand (please comment).

In this instance, probably everyone here learned differently. For me, I learned that you need to have at least 2/3rd more nail than the thickness of the material you are nailing. In some cases this formula is part of the building codes for certain applications.

Trims and moldings are different and there are other variables. If you when I put up a thick trim like your are using, I use an 8d finish (2 1/2") if I am nailing directly to the frame. If I am going over sheetrock I will use 10d due to the fact that you will be nailing through an additional 1/2" of material that will not hold a nail.

Having hung a few thousand doors (literally), I have never seen anyone use spring clamps on door trim.

As far as finger savers go, they can be handy and I used them myself when I was learning to drive nails. As far as buying a special nail placement tool to work around hinge placement. put your nails on either side of the hinge where you have the room to drive the nail. There is no reason to put them right on the hinge.

Blunting the nails works on some trims. Not so much anymore as the hardwoods we get that make up stock trims are hard enough to be brittle. With that in mind, I take a nail the size of the nails I am driving and clip the head off and use it as a drill bit for small nails, say 3d to 4d. Anything other than those sizes, I use a drill bit that is a little smaller than the nail in diameter and then drill only through the trim by a little bit. Today's nails are made from am mix of steel scrap, and blunting them will cause them to bend, creating another problem when driving the nail.

I don't use adhesive on door trims. I don't know what that guy thinks he will be achieving by doing that on end joints. If I want then to stay and I think they need help, I line the joint up where I want it, drill a pilot hole from the top and then nail down where the nail can't be seen. This also eliminates that spring clamp business.

For inside use if I am hand nailing, I drill pilot holes for the jamb side and use 4d finish. For the wall side, I use 8d finish. But this is for 1/2" thick trim. Your instance will be different. Put your nails on the jamb side about 10" apart on a shimmed door, and about 14" on the wall side. On non shimmed doors (I don't shim doors 24" or less) then tighten up those measurements by 2" each side.

Take your time when installing your casing. On a proper door installation, the casing is an important, integral part of the door structure. The installation of the casing completes a "box", which will hold the jamb true and help prevent the torque created from use from pulling the door out of adjustment. I don't use as many nails as that guy you referenced does since I usually shim most doors, but I am particularly careful to put nails on either sides of the hinges on both sides of the casing, and strike side gets the same treatment as well.

Robert



Hey Robert! How was Kalifornia? Did you see any airplains that may
have been flying to Lo? ;~)

On Tuesday, July 30, 2013 8:21:35 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:

Hey Robert! How was Kalifornia? Did you see any airplains that may

have been flying to Lo? ;~)

LOL! Not this trip.

Funny thing about Lake Tahoe, they don't consider themselves Californians and are tired of being painted with the same brush as the dreaded "Bay Area Assholes". Those folks in Tahoe really, really don't like their southern neighbors. I heard that everywhere I went this trip.

Without the skiing industry, Tahoe would be just another sleepy tourist town. If you go now, there are few tourists and the town rolls up at around 9 at night. The streets are literally deserted by 11. A nice, clean hotel room on the beach area of the lake is about $80 a night!

Hard to take a bad picture there too, since it is sooooo scenic. The folks there on both sides of Tahoe love their town and have a lot of pride in it and it shows. There is no trash anywhere in the streets; there is NO graffiti. This trip there was a wooden boat show, and antique car show, along with all the other things to do. We rode the gondolas, took the river boat cruise, drove to Carson City and rode the antique train up to Virginia City, and on an on.

The trip was a huge success. Plenty to do, but really relaxing as well.

You and lovely K should put that on your list!

Robert

wrote:
On Monday, July 29, 2013 10:00:40 PM UTC-5, Bill wrote:


My door is about 7' high, the molding is 2" wide and 1.25" thick.
Is this brick or masonry molding? 1 1/4" this is pretty thick for door trims unless it is for a masonry/rock application.
You are correct, I was wrong. I was looking at the molding on the door
between the garage and the entry to the kitchen, which is of a different
nature.
The molding I should be using, provided I match the rest of the house,
should be 2 1/2" wide and 1/2" thick.

Thank you for providing a great lesson in the rest of your post!

By the way, when I really need a "finger saver" (for really small nails
or to get to hard to reach places) I make my own--out of a piece of
cardboard say.
I learned to pound nails as a youngster the old-fashioned
way--accumulating a few blood-blisters along the way. But I learned--I
don't hit my fingers
like that anymore, at least not so much! : )

Bill


My strategy was that I would fit and mark the moldings to size, cut

them with a hand miter saw I have, and nail it up. Since I'm not

nailing through drywall, I figured 2.5" finish nails would be

appropriate. If 2" finish nails would be suitable, I happen to have

those on hand (please comment).
In this instance, probably everyone here learned differently. For me, I learned that you need to have at least 2/3rd more nail than the thickness of the material you are nailing. In some cases this formula is part of the building codes for certain applications.

Trims and moldings are different and there are other variables. If you when I put up a thick trim like your are using, I use an 8d finish (2 1/2") if I am nailing directly to the frame. If I am going over sheetrock I will use 10d due to the fact that you will be nailing through an additional 1/2" of material that will not hold a nail.

Having hung a few thousand doors (literally), I have never seen anyone use spring clamps on door trim.

As far as finger savers go, they can be handy and I used them myself when I was learning to drive nails. As far as buying a special nail placement tool to work around hinge placement. put your nails on either side of the hinge where you have the room to drive the nail. There is no reason to put them right on the hinge.

Blunting the nails works on some trims. Not so much anymore as the hardwoods we get that make up stock trims are hard enough to be brittle. With that in mind, I take a nail the size of the nails I am driving and clip the head off and use it as a drill bit for small nails, say 3d to 4d. Anything other than those sizes, I use a drill bit that is a little smaller than the nail in diameter and then drill only through the trim by a little bit. Today's nails are made from am mix of steel scrap, and blunting them will cause them to bend, creating another problem when driving the nail.

I don't use adhesive on door trims. I don't know what that guy thinks he will be achieving by doing that on end joints. If I want then to stay and I think they need help, I line the joint up where I want it, drill a pilot hole from the top and then nail down where the nail can't be seen. This also eliminates that spring clamp business.

For inside use if I am hand nailing, I drill pilot holes for the jamb side and use 4d finish. For the wall side, I use 8d finish. But this is for 1/2" thick trim. Your instance will be different. Put your nails on the jamb side about 10" apart on a shimmed door, and about 14" on the wall side. On non shimmed doors (I don't shim doors 24" or less) then tighten up those measurements by 2" each side.

Take your time when installing your casing. On a proper door installation, the casing is an important, integral part of the door structure. The installation of the casing completes a "box", which will hold the jamb true and help prevent the torque created from use from pulling the door out of adjustment. I don't use as many nails as that guy you referenced does since I usually shim most doors, but I am particularly careful to put nails on either sides of the hinges on both sides of the casing, and strike side gets the same treatment as well.

Robert

wrote:
For inside use if I am hand nailing, I drill pilot holes for the jamb
side and use 4d finish. For the wall side, I use 8d finish. But this
is for 1/2" thick trim. Your instance will be different. Put your
nails on the jamb side about 10" apart on a shimmed door, and about
14" on the wall side.
That's just what I need to do. I had not planned to use "2 columns" of
nails. %-) Surely you must drill pilot holes for the 8d finish nails
too, then, right? Right through the drywall I suppose.

Thanks once again for a very helpful lesson!

Bill


On non shimmed doors (I don't shim doors 24" or less) then tighten up
those measurements by 2" each side. Take your time when installing
your casing. On a proper door installation, the casing is an
important, integral part of the door structure. The installation of
the casing completes a "box", which will hold the jamb true and help
prevent the torque created from use from pulling the door out of
adjustment. I don't use as many nails as that guy you referenced does
since I usually shim most doors, but I am particularly careful to put
nails on either sides of the hinges on both sides of the casing, and
strike side gets the same treatment as well. Robert

dadiOH wrote:
If your door is "standard", it is 80". A molding 1.25 thick and 2"
wide is wierd.
Yes, I messed up on that. I need a 2 1/2" by 1/2" thick molding. I
described the molding around an entry way (to the kitchen) adjacent to
it, where the actual door lies 5" or so inward.


Because it isn't a perfect world is also the reason I avoid mitering
casing.

I've been "sweating that miters" ever since I took the old one molding
down! Though the fellow who did the previous installation didn't sweat
it--he just left a 3/8" gap inside the miter I guess that's why I
didn't hesitate to discard it.

Instead, I use corner blocks...the ends of the casings are cut square
and of the proper length to align with the reveal. The open square
left is then filled with a slightly thicker and larger square piece of
wood; thicker so it will be proud of the jambs; larger so it will be
wider than the jambs on both edges. A "stopper". Corner blocks often
have a decorative rosette; I don't have a rosettes cutter so I just
rout a decorative edge all around.
I haven't figured out yet why I one may need a rosette cutter (it seems
like they should be of standard size (s) --like 2 3/4" square) but I
like your idea of using "corner blocks" (much better than my chances of
cutting perfect miters!)
I'll investigate further.


Thank you very much for your helpful and interesting post!

Bill

On 7/30/2013 12:38 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, July 30, 2013 8:21:35 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:

Hey Robert! How was Kalifornia? Did you see any airplains that may

have been flying to Lo? ;~)

LOL! Not this trip.

Funny thing about Lake Tahoe, they don't consider themselves Californians and are tired of being painted with the same brush as the dreaded "Bay Area Assholes". Those folks in Tahoe really, really don't like their southern neighbors. I heard that everywhere I went this trip.

Without the skiing industry, Tahoe would be just another sleepy tourist town. If you go now, there are few tourists and the town rolls up at around 9 at night. The streets are literally deserted by 11. A nice, clean hotel room on the beach area of the lake is about $80 a night!

Hard to take a bad picture there too, since it is sooooo scenic. The folks there on both sides of Tahoe love their town and have a lot of pride in it and it shows. There is no trash anywhere in the streets; there is NO graffiti. This trip there was a wooden boat show, and antique car show, along with all the other things to do. We rode the gondolas, took the river boat cruise, drove to Carson City and rode the antique train up to Virginia City, and on an on.

The trip was a huge success. Plenty to do, but really relaxing as well.

You and lovely K should put that on your list!

Robert



We will certainly put on our list! Thank you for the review!

How many days were you gone?

On Tuesday, July 30, 2013 2:39:27 PM UTC-5, Bill wrote:

That's just what I need to do. I had not planned to use "2 columns" of

nails. %-)

Surely you must drill pilot holes for the 8d finish nails

too, then, right? Right through the drywall I suppose.

That really depends on the hardness of the trim. I don't have any trouble getting the nails in, but worry about splitting when using that really hard white primed stuff from Chile that they sell at the big boxes. Try a nail or two a foot from the edges when using the 8d nails and inspect closely for tiny splits around the nails. This can be a good indicator for splitting near the ends of the trim. Drill the ends of the trim about an inch down from your inside miter for your nails if you have any doubts at all.

Reminds me of a good tip.

Make your reference/spacer marks as needed on the jamb. Cut the trim to length using the inside length of the miter, not the outside. Put both sides up, but DO NOT nail the last 8 inches around the miter joint, just make sure the trim is on your mark. Measure the outside length of the top piece (the horns if you will) to get an overall outside measurement. If the sides are not 100% attached, you can move them very slightly back and forth to improve the appearance of your miter joints. This may be necessary as NO door is ever installed completely square or completely plumb. Attach the top piece with a nail in the center of the trim, inspect your joints, adjust/trim as needed and if necessary put a nail (predrilled of course!) into the miter joint. I would suggest a 3d for that joints as needed.

Once you are satisfied with the fit, complete the attachment of the trim.


Thanks once again for a very helpful lesson!

Glad to help!

Robert

On 7/30/2013 4:02 PM, Bill wrote:

I've been "sweating that miters" ever since I took the old one molding
down! Though the fellow who did the previous installation didn't sweat
it--he just left a 3/8" gap inside the miter I guess that's why I
didn't hesitate to discard it.

Two leg miters are really not that difficult. as you only have one width
to worry about, the distance across the door. Your problems really
begin on four sided miters, like a picture frame. If the side pieces
are a little long or short the extra material can be accounted for at
the bottom of the door. That is what quarter round is for.

I cut my miters on a table saw, using a triangle miter gauge. Coarse cut
the miter on the table saw, then do a shave cut on the table saw to get
the precision.

"Bill" wrote in message

dadiOH wrote:
If your door is "standard", it is 80". A molding 1.25
thick and 2" wide is wierd.
Yes, I messed up on that. I need a 2 1/2" by 1/2" thick
molding. I described the molding around an entry way (to
the kitchen) adjacent to it, where the actual door lies
5" or so inward.

Because it isn't a perfect world is also the reason I
avoid mitering casing.

I've been "sweating that miters" ever since I took the
old one molding down! Though the fellow who did the
previous installation didn't sweat it--he just left a
3/8" gap inside the miter I guess that's why I didn't
hesitate to discard it.
Instead, I use corner blocks...the ends of the casings
are cut square and of the proper length to align with
the reveal. The open square left is then filled with a
slightly thicker and larger square piece of wood;
thicker so it will be proud of the jambs; larger so it
will be wider than the jambs on both edges. A
"stopper". Corner blocks often have a decorative
rosette; I don't have a rosettes cutter so I just rout
a decorative edge all around.
I haven't figured out yet why I one may need a rosette
cutter (it seems like they should be of standard size (s)
--like 2 3/4" square) but I like your idea of using
"corner blocks" (much better than my chances of cutting
perfect miters!) I'll investigate further.


Thank you very much for your helpful and interesting post!

Bill

NP. One thing...in this part
"The open square left is then filled with a
slightly thicker and larger square piece of wood;
thicker so it will be proud of the jambs; larger so it
will be wider than the jambs on both edges. "

The word "jamb" should be "casing".


--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

wrote:

Reminds me of a good tip.

Make your reference/spacer marks as needed on the jamb. Cut the trim to length using the inside length of the miter, not the outside. Put both sides up, but DO NOT nail the last 8 inches around the miter joint, just make sure the trim is on your mark. Measure the outside length of the top piece (the horns if you will) to get an overall outside measurement. If the sides are not 100% attached, you can move them very slightly back and forth to improve the appearance of your miter joints. This may be necessary as NO door is ever installed completely square or completely plumb. Attach the top piece with a nail in the center of the trim, inspect your joints, adjust/trim as needed and if necessary put a nail (predrilled of course!) into the miter joint. I would suggest a 3d for that joints as needed.

Once you are satisfied with the fit, complete the attachment of the trim.

Written like a true pro--it sounds like sage advise!

I don't know if you remember me screwing around "shimming" my door for
the last year or two (Mike Marlow was sort of helping me with it)? It
wouldn't stay locked all year. I ultimately determined that my
"weather-related" problem with the door not locking was only indirectly
due to the shimming. It was due to the door latch hitting the edge of
the striker plate. Installing a different striker plate allowed me to
move the opening down about 1/4 inch--which I strongly believe is the
final word on that problem. That said, this may be a good chance to
shim the door again (for the 5th or 6th time?) , before I "reinforce" it
with all of this molding! Like a "box"!!! %- ). I use my
reciprocating saw to cut the old nails... I'll try to force myself to
shim it one LAST time...though the place where the nails enter is
starting to get a little ragged. If anyone points and asks, I'll just
have to admit, "that's where I learned." Maybe I can cover my
experience with some joint compound.

Cheers,
Bill


Thanks once again for a very helpful lesson!
Glad to help!

Robert

dadiOH wrote:
"Bill" wrote in message

dadiOH wrote:
If your door is "standard", it is 80". A molding 1.25
thick and 2" wide is wierd.
Yes, I messed up on that. I need a 2 1/2" by 1/2" thick
molding. I described the molding around an entry way (to
the kitchen) adjacent to it, where the actual door lies
5" or so inward.

Because it isn't a perfect world is also the reason I
avoid mitering casing.
I've been "sweating that miters" ever since I took the
old one molding down! Though the fellow who did the
previous installation didn't sweat it--he just left a
3/8" gap inside the miter I guess that's why I didn't
hesitate to discard it.
Instead, I use corner blocks...the ends of the casings
are cut square and of the proper length to align with
the reveal. The open square left is then filled with a
slightly thicker and larger square piece of wood;
thicker so it will be proud of the jambs; larger so it
will be wider than the jambs on both edges. A
"stopper". Corner blocks often have a decorative
rosette; I don't have a rosettes cutter so I just rout
a decorative edge all around.
I haven't figured out yet why I one may need a rosette
cutter (it seems like they should be of standard size (s)
--like 2 3/4" square) but I like your idea of using
"corner blocks" (much better than my chances of cutting
perfect miters!) I'll investigate further.


Thank you very much for your helpful and interesting post!

Bill
NP. One thing...in this part
"The open square left is then filled with a
slightly thicker and larger square piece of wood;
thicker so it will be proud of the jambs; larger so it
will be wider than the jambs on both edges. "
The word "jamb" should be "casing".

You drew the right picture for me. In fact, I found Home Depot has a
door casing all-in-one kit using your model (but it's MDF so I'm not
going to use that
particular kit).

I'll let you know how it comes out! : ) I think I'm going to start
by re-shimming the door (read my other most-recent post)...

Bill

Bill wrote:


I've been "sweating that miters" ever since I took the old one molding
down! Though the fellow who did the previous installation didn't sweat
it--he just left a 3/8" gap inside the miter I guess that's why I
didn't hesitate to discard it.

Wow - that's either an exageration, or a really poor piece of workmanship.


I haven't figured out yet why I one may need a rosette cutter (it
seems like they should be of standard size (s) --like 2 3/4" square) but I
like your idea of using "corner blocks" (much better than my
chances of cutting perfect miters!)
I'll investigate further.


I don't know why you believe that Bill. Think of it this way - an accurate
cut is an accurate cut - regardless of whether it's on a bias or it's a
square cut. Your ability to cut precisely is exactly the same in i either
case. Don't let your head get you confused. If you can cut at 90 degrees,
you can just as easily cut at 82 degrees. You can do it...

--

-Mike-

Bill wrote:


I don't know if you remember me screwing around "shimming" my door for
the last year or two (Mike Marlow was sort of helping me with it)? It
wouldn't stay locked all year. I ultimately determined that my
"weather-related" problem with the door not locking was only
indirectly due to the shimming.

Believe as you will. Those of us who have installed doors successfully,
will continue to do it in the manner that was explained to you.

It was due to the door latch hitting
the edge of the striker plate. Installing a different striker plate
allowed me to move the opening down about 1/4 inch--which I strongly
believe is the final word on that problem.

Except that a properly installed door does not require what you strongly
believe in. But then, there are only hundreds of thousands of them out
there...Or, probably, more...

That said, this may be a
good chance to shim the door again (for the 5th or 6th time?) ,
before I "reinforce" it with all of this molding! Like a "box"!!! %- ).
I use my reciprocating saw to cut the old nails... I'll
try to force myself to shim it one LAST time...though the place where
the nails enter is starting to get a little ragged. If anyone points
and asks, I'll just have to admit, "that's where I learned." Maybe I
can cover my experience with some joint compound.

Why not just look at some YouTube videos? You are making a mountain and a
half out of a very simple task... as always...


--

-Mike-

Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:

I don't know if you remember me screwing around "shimming" my door for
the last year or two (Mike Marlow was sort of helping me with it)? It
wouldn't stay locked all year. I ultimately determined that my
"weather-related" problem with the door not locking was only
indirectly due to the shimming.
Believe as you will. Those of us who have installed doors successfully,
will continue to do it in the manner that was explained to you.

I did NOT install the door. I inherited it when I bought the house. The
fellow that installed the door is probably the same fellow that left a
3/8" gap in the door casing, and the same one that covered the edges of
a sharp hole in an electrical box with cellophane tape before running
romex cable into it.

I now know, having watched YouTube videos and done it a few times, the
basics of how to shim a door--though only one side is accessible to
me. In fact, I used to have to shim and pull the striker plate into
alignment at the same time! No more. I installed a new striker plate
(too hard to move the old one). The previous installer did not shim the
door and did not properly align the striker plate for "all seasons".

I'll let you know how it goes.

Bill

It was due to the door latch hitting
the edge of the striker plate. Installing a different striker plate
allowed me to move the opening down about 1/4 inch--which I strongly
believe is the final word on that problem.
Except that a properly installed door does not require what you strongly
believe in. But then, there are only hundreds of thousands of them out
there...Or, probably, more...

That said, this may be a
good chance to shim the door again (for the 5th or 6th time?) ,
before I "reinforce" it with all of this molding! Like a "box"!!! %- ).
I use my reciprocating saw to cut the old nails... I'll
try to force myself to shim it one LAST time...though the place where
the nails enter is starting to get a little ragged. If anyone points
and asks, I'll just have to admit, "that's where I learned." Maybe I
can cover my experience with some joint compound.
Why not just look at some YouTube videos? You are making a mountain and a
half out of a very simple task... as always...

Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:

I've been "sweating that miters" ever since I took the old one molding
down! Though the fellow who did the previous installation didn't sweat
it--he just left a 3/8" gap inside the miter I guess that's why I
didn't hesitate to discard it.
Wow - that's either an exageration, or a really poor piece of workmanship.


Maybe didn't have a miter saw and just eye-balled two 45 degree miters.
To his credit, he made sure the pieces
met at the outside corner. But they didn't meet anywhere else He took
a few other "shortcuts" too.. (in other areas).
Some people can go through life and ignore the details.

Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote: It was due to the door latch hitting
the edge of the striker plate. Installing a different striker plate
allowed me to move the opening down about 1/4 inch--which I strongly
believe is the final word on that problem.
Except that a properly installed door does not require what you strongly
believe in.
I was being "too poetic" using "strongly believe". I FIXED the door.
I am however going to adjust it a little before I encase it "for
eternity". I'm off to pick up some shims now.

Mike Marlow, I didn't throw any mud your way. You are one of the folks
who chased Larry J off. Don't you miss having him around?

Summarizing what he told me when I wrote to him, it was that he was too
old to be belittled. Maybe I was the only one who tried to get him to
come back?

Bill


But then, there are only hundreds of thousands of them out
there...Or, probably, more...

On 7/31/2013 4:02 PM, Bill wrote:

Mike Marlow, I didn't throw any mud your way. You are one of the folks
who chased Larry J off.

Bull**** ... apparently C_less, partly due to his historical denigration
of other folks effort with his RBS "red/brown ****" finishing diatribes,
most likely left the kitchen because he couldn't stand some of his own
self generated heat.

Too bad, because he was/is a good dude/participant ... just one who
could dish it but apparently not take it ... so let's watch that
revisionist history, and blaming others.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

Swingman wrote:
On 7/31/2013 4:02 PM, Bill wrote:

Mike Marlow, I didn't throw any mud your way. You are one of the folks
who chased Larry J off.

Bull**** ... apparently C_less, partly due to his historical
denigration of other folks effort with his RBS "red/brown ****"
finishing diatribes, most likely left the kitchen because he couldn't
stand some of his own self generated heat.

Too bad, because he was/is a good dude/participant ... just one who
could dish it but apparently not take it ... so let's watch that
revisionist history, and blaming others.

He wrote me he has/had a lot of respect for you (as I do). And that's
why "he couldn't take it". I did not read and I steered clear of the the
associated argument. And I'm going to step away from it now. At least
you know why he's not here. Like you said, it's "too bad". He always
had a kind word for me.

Bill

Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:
Summarizing what he told me when I wrote to him, it was that he was
too old to be belittled. Maybe I was the only one who tried to get
him to come back?
Well - that's Larry's choice. He was as acidic as any here, and had his
share of problems with plenty of people here. Oh well - that's how it goes.


I told him I thought he was being too stubborn too. That's the way it
goes. Nuf' said.

Bill wrote:
Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote: It was due to the door latch hitting
the edge of the striker plate. Installing a different striker plate
allowed me to move the opening down about 1/4 inch--which I strongly
believe is the final word on that problem.
Except that a properly installed door does not require what you
strongly believe in.

I was being "too poetic" using "strongly believe". I FIXED the door.
I am however going to adjust it a little before I encase it "for
eternity". I'm off to pick up some shims now.



Mike Marlow, I didn't throw any mud your way. You are one of the folks
who chased Larry J off. Don't you miss having him around?

I don't think I threw any mud your way either Bill - but if you do then, I
apologize. Mud slinging was not my intention. No one drove Larry away - he
left (if he really has left...) because he elected to. Larry is very
opinionated - like many of us here, and decided to do what he chose to do.
Nobody here was capable of driving Larry anywhere.


Summarizing what he told me when I wrote to him, it was that he was
too old to be belittled. Maybe I was the only one who tried to get
him to come back?

Well - that's Larry's choice. He was as acidic as any here, and had his
share of problems with plenty of people here. Oh well - that's how it goes.


--

-Mike-

wrote:
On Tuesday, July 30, 2013 2:39:27 PM UTC-5, Bill wrote:
Surely you must drill pilot holes for the 8d finish nails

too, then, right? Right through the drywall I suppose.
That really depends on the hardness of the trim. I don't have any trouble getting the nails in, but worry about splitting when using that really hard white primed stuff from Chile that they sell at the big boxes. Try a nail or two a foot from the edges when using the 8d nails and inspect closely for tiny splits around the nails. This can be a good indicator for splitting near the ends of the trim. Drill the ends of the trim about an inch down from your inside miter for your nails if you have any doubts at all.

I just came home with my casing from Chile, I mean Home Depot. At least
in my case, the "white primed casing" is MDF. I didn't notice until I
was putting it in the car. That means it has Formaldehyde in it, so (if
I follow the guidelines at Wikipedia) I could paint the back and ends
for instance if I feel like it. As long as I don't breathe the dust
directly, or eat it, I don't expect a real problem either way. I will
be careful to avoid doing either of those things... Based on my 2 bad
experiences working with regular plywood in the last 10 years, I think
I'll don a pair of my blue-nitrile gloves from Harbor Freight when I cut
it. I would have preferred to pay for wood.

Bill

On 7/31/2013 4:02 PM, Bill wrote:
Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote: It was due to the door latch hitting
the edge of the striker plate. Installing a different striker plate
allowed me to move the opening down about 1/4 inch--which I strongly
believe is the final word on that problem.
Except that a properly installed door does not require what you strongly
believe in.
I was being "too poetic" using "strongly believe". I FIXED the door. I
am however going to adjust it a little before I encase it "for
eternity". I'm off to pick up some shims now.

Mike Marlow, I didn't throw any mud your way. You are one of the folks
who chased Larry J off. Don't you miss having him around?

Summarizing what he told me when I wrote to him, it was that he was too
old to be belittled. Maybe I was the only one who tried to get him to
come back?

Bill


But then, there are only hundreds of thousands of them out
there...Or, probably, more...




Actually Larry is still here, maybe not as much but under a much
different name. He has changed personalities under the new name but
makes the same comments/deferrals. He has specifically commented about
his CNC machine that he has/was developing in his garage. I recall it
screaming Larry's style.

Bill wrote:
wrote:
On Tuesday, July 30, 2013 2:39:27 PM UTC-5, Bill wrote:
Surely you must drill pilot holes for the 8d finish nails

too, then, right? Right through the drywall I suppose.
That really depends on the hardness of the trim. I don't have any
trouble getting the nails in, but worry about splitting when using
that really hard white primed stuff from Chile that they sell at the
big boxes. Try a nail or two a foot from the edges when using the 8d
nails and inspect closely for tiny splits around the nails. This can
be a good indicator for splitting near the ends of the trim. Drill
the ends of the trim about an inch down from your inside miter for
your nails if you have any doubts at all.

I just came home with my casing from Chile, I mean Home Depot. At
least in my case, the "white primed casing" is MDF. I didn't notice
until I was putting it in the car. That means it has Formaldehyde in
it, ...

Bill

I'm over the hump. I replaced a shim in the door with a slightly
thinner one to suit me. I noticed that the angles on my door are close
to 90-degrees. Then I cut all of the 45-degree miters in the door casing
with an old metal miter saw someone gave me. I compared my first cut
with my Starrett combination square and it fared well. I just made one
bad cut, forgetting that door molding not only has a front and back, it
has an inside and an outside too! My first thought was that I would just
"use the piece on the other side", but I noticed that it doesn't work
that way! ; ) With time to spare, and everything handy, I quickly
painted the backs of the pieces. I'll cut the two sides to length and
nail it all up tomorrow.

I inset numerous nails heads still present from me shimming the door
several times. My thought is that I will apply some EZ-Sand drywall
compound (or Durabond) over that strip (containing the strike plate),
and paint it, to pretty it up. The door opens to the inside of the
garage, and there is even a piece of weather strip in place. Thus, I
think condensation would be main possible source of moisture. Is it
likely to hold up if I do this (I'm sure how good my Zinnser 123 and
drywall compound are at dealing with moisture like this)?
The current paint there is very flat, and may be a primer itself (or
not...).

I knew I forgot something at the store. I forgot to buy my "pale green"
paint for the door. I think there used to be a movie called "The Green
Door". Any coincidence with my choice of color for the door is just
that. : )

Bill

wrote:
On Tuesday, July 30, 2013 2:39:27 PM UTC-5, Bill wrote:

Thanks once again for a very helpful lesson!
Glad to help!

Robert

Alot of work that seems really hard when it's "out of one's comfort zone".
I've noticed it can sometimes be really hard to move out of ones comfort
zone sometimes.
Thinking about being out of one's comfort zone seems to create
immobilization.
The prodding and tips I got in this thread were helpful in getting me
going--maybe because
they contained some concrete "what to do's" that hit home and made me
feel more confident.

Anyhow, just want to document that the "comfort zone" concept may be a
very important one.
Not just to us, but to our whole society (I don't claim this is an
original idea).
I'm always quietly-excited when I can increase the size of my comfort
zone.

Bill

Bill wrote:

I
just made one bad cut, forgetting that door molding not only has a
front and back, it has an inside and an outside too! My first thought
was that I would just "use the piece on the other side", but I
noticed that it doesn't work that way! ; )

That won't be the last time you make that mistake! You might even someday
find yourself making that very same mistake as you pre-cut the trim for a
project at home, before heading off to the project site. And then you
arrive at the site, trim in hand...

I inset numerous nails heads still present from me shimming the door
several times. My thought is that I will apply some EZ-Sand drywall
compound (or Durabond) over that strip (containing the strike plate),
and paint it, to pretty it up. The door opens to the inside of the
garage, and there is even a piece of weather strip in place. Thus, I
think condensation would be main possible source of moisture. Is it
likely to hold up if I do this (I'm sure how good my Zinnser 123 and
drywall compound are at dealing with moisture like this)?
The current paint there is very flat, and may be a primer itself (or
not...).

Once painted over it may be ok, but why not just spot fill the nail holes
with putty or your choice of product, and just sand those down. Seems
easier. Or is that what you mean when you say you will apply some over the
strip? There is not heat in the garage - correct? Do you currently
experience condensation in the winter time? I've had moisture issues in my
garage so severe that the floor was wet to the point of almost puddling
water, yet never experienced any issues with any of the joint compound in
the garage.


--

-Mike-

I knew I forgot something at the store. I forgot to buy my "pale green"
paint for the door. I think there used to be a movie called "The Green
Door". Any coincidence with my choice of color for the door is just
that. : )

Bill



Think Mitchell Bros. film starring Marilyn Chambers (the Ivory Snow girl
- 99 44/100% pure). Should'a won an Oscar.

"Bill" wrote in message

I inset numerous nails heads still present from me
shimming the door several times. My thought is that I
will apply some EZ-Sand drywall compound (or Durabond)
over that strip (containing the strike plate), and paint
it, to pretty it up. The door opens to the inside of
the garage, and there is even a piece of weather strip in
place. Thus, I think condensation would be main possible
source of moisture. Is it likely to hold up if I do
this (I'm sure how good my Zinnser 123 and drywall
compound are at dealing with moisture like this)?

If you are worried about it melting, use setting compound rather than
drying. Or plaster. Or Bondo. Or lacquer base auto glazing compound. Et
cetera.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

Mike Marlow wrote:


Once painted over it may be ok, but why not just spot fill the nail holes
with putty or your choice of product, and just sand those down. Seems
easier. Or is that what you mean when you say you will apply some over the
strip? There is not heat in the garage - correct? Do you currently
experience condensation in the winter time?

No condensation that I have noticed. Maybe because the garage shares a
wall and the whole attic with the rest of the house.


I've had moisture issues in my
garage so severe that the floor was wet to the point of almost puddling
water, yet never experienced any issues with any of the joint compound in
the garage.

dadiOH wrote:
"Bill" wrote in message

I inset numerous nails heads still present from me
shimming the door several times. My thought is that I
will apply some EZ-Sand drywall compound (or Durabond)
over that strip (containing the strike plate), and paint
it, to pretty it up. The door opens to the inside of
the garage, and there is even a piece of weather strip in
place. Thus, I think condensation would be main possible
source of moisture. Is it likely to hold up if I do
this (I'm sure how good my Zinnser 123 and drywall
compound are at dealing with moisture like this)?
If you are worried about it melting, use setting compound rather than
drying. Or plaster. Or Bondo. Or lacquer base auto glazing compound. Et
cetera.

Thank you. Will do!

Bill

wrote:
Reminds me of a good tip. Make your reference/spacer marks as needed
on the jamb. Cut the trim to length using the inside length of the
miter, not the outside. Put both sides up, but DO NOT nail the last 8
inches around the miter joint, just make sure the trim is on your
mark. Measure the outside length of the top piece (the horns if you
will) to get an overall outside measurement. If the sides are not 100%
attached, you can move them very slightly back and forth to improve
the appearance of your miter joints. This may be necessary as NO door
is ever installed completely square or completely plumb. Attach the
top piece with a nail in the center of the trim, inspect your joints,
adjust/trim as needed and if necessary put a nail (predrilled of
course!) into the miter joint.
You are ABSOLUTELY CORRECT that you want to predrill for that nail!
DAMHIKT %-)
I removed the first nail with the help of a box cutter.
I added a nail from the side too.
I exclaimed to my wife who happen to be standing nearby, and had no idea
what I was talking about--"How did I forget to predrill for that nail?!"
And, if one can somehow predrill it BEFORE the casing is tacked up, one
may be able to avoid sanding and repainting the adjacent wall surface.
In retrospect, maybe a "barrier" should be used.

I think I cut my casing at 45-degrees. I took your advise (all of it)
and hung up the "horns" first. I had to hack off a little off of one of
the verticals with my hand miter saw and I had to had to cut two or
three times on the other vertical to get them to meet the horns
properly. For the first one I stuck a paint stick in the miter saw to
create the bit of deflection. Due to the nature of the miter saw, and a
little impatience I ended up eye-balling and holding the workpiece with
my hand for the second one. It was nice that this worked pretty well as
it did as I had already cut the pieces to length (and cutting them to
length seems forced on you, at least up to 1/2" or so at the floor).

Using nail sets to set all of the 4d and 6d nails was tedius work (at
least one of the boards was quite hard) Are the folks who use
pneumatic tools able to shoot them below the the surface? I will put
some EZ-Sand on the insets tomorrow.

I bought a quart of "Airy Mint" semi-gloss paint today for the door. I
expect it to look pleasant against everything else, which is WHITE. The
door has a panel window which should look pretty, though the exterior or
it is in need of repair (it will require me to create some new pieces.
I have designate that as a *future* project). Until I started to paint
recently, it's always been covered up wth a make-shift curtain. I'll
enjoy it a bit before I consider covering it up again. Pictures later.

It's nice to have a "cased door" (just wait until it's painted!) Thanks
to all of the folks that helped!

You know what's even better than having a "cased door"? -- Having a
hunch about how to do it! : )

Bill


I would suggest a 3d for that joints as needed. Once you are satisfied
with the fit, complete the attachment of the trim.
Thanks once again for a very helpful lesson!
Glad to help!

Robert

Bill wrote:


Using nail sets to set all of the 4d and 6d nails was tedius work (at
least one of the boards was quite hard) Are the folks who use
pneumatic tools able to shoot them below the the surface? I will put
some EZ-Sand on the insets tomorrow.


Yes - as long as your gun pressure is high enough. Once you use a pneumatic
gun for jobs like this, you'll never want to go back to using a hammer.
Shoot it, fill it, paint it.



It's nice to have a "cased door" (just wait until it's painted!)
Thanks to all of the folks that helped!


It is good to see it come together isn't it? Just remember - as a male, you
are well within your rights to move on to something else at this point,
leaving an almost finished project in it's almost finished state, for... oh,
10-12 years or so.

--

-Mike-

On 8/3/2013 4:44 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:


Using nail sets to set all of the 4d and 6d nails was tedius work (at
least one of the boards was quite hard) Are the folks who use
pneumatic tools able to shoot them below the the surface? I will put
some EZ-Sand on the insets tomorrow.


Yes - as long as your gun pressure is high enough. Once you use a pneumatic
gun for jobs like this, you'll never want to go back to using a hammer.
Shoot it, fill it, paint it.



It's nice to have a "cased door" (just wait until it's painted!)
Thanks to all of the folks that helped!


It is good to see it come together isn't it? Just remember - as a male, you
are well within your rights to move on to something else at this point,
leaving an almost finished project in it's almost finished state, for... oh,
10-12 years or so.


....unless one can buy a new tool, like an air powered nailer.

chaniarts wrote:
On 8/3/2013 4:44 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:

It is good to see it come together isn't it? Just remember - as a
male, you
are well within your rights to move on to something else at this point,
leaving an almost finished project in it's almost finished state,
for... oh,
10-12 years or so.


...unless one can buy a new tool, like an air powered nailer.

Darn! I missed my chance! And I have had my eyes on some high-end
compressors too... ; )

Bill wrote in
:


Darn! I missed my chance! And I have had my eyes on some high-end
compressors too... ; )

You need a good compressor anyway. Besides air nailers, there's big
inflatable toys & air beds (use the regulator), and tires. Some gas
stations want upwards of $0.75 just to turn the air compressor on!

The retractable hose & reel is a big help too. I mounted it in a corner in
the garage and it stays out of the way until I need it.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

Puckdropper wrote:
Bill wrote in
:

Darn! I missed my chance! And I have had my eyes on some high-end
compressors too... ; )
You need a good compressor anyway. Besides air nailers, there's big
inflatable toys & air beds (use the regulator), and tires. Some gas
stations want upwards of $0.75 just to turn the air compressor on!

My local Speedway station has one that takes quarters or credit cards,
and it cost $1 for 3 minutes.
If my math is right, you could save $20 an hour by having your own
machine. I never realized how fast
a compressor would pay for itself.


The retractable hose & reel is a big help too. I mounted it in a corner in
the garage and it stays out of the way until I need it.

Puckdropper

wrote:
Reminds me of a good tip. Make your reference/spacer marks as needed
on the jamb. Cut the trim to length using the inside length of the
miter, not the outside. Put both sides up, but DO NOT nail the last 8
inches around the miter joint, just make sure the trim is on your
mark. Measure the outside length of the top piece (the horns if you
will) to get an overall outside measurement. If the sides are not 100%
attached, you can move them very slightly back and forth to improve
the appearance of your miter joints. This may be necessary as NO door
is ever installed completely square or completely plumb. Attach the
top piece with a nail in the center of the trim, inspect your joints,
adjust/trim as needed and if necessary put a nail (predrilled of
course!) into the miter joint. I would suggest a 3d for that joints as
needed. Once you are satisfied with the fit, complete the attachment
of the trim.

Robert,

I just wanted to thank you again for the guidance above. I surely helped
the appearance of my work and made the work much less aggravating then
it would have otherwise been. Without your suggestions I confess I
probably would have worked out 45-degree miters on the ground, and then
struggled from there... probably clockwise (LOL!)

Bill


Anyone reading this who may encase a door, take note of the
technique--especially concerning the top piece.

Bill wrote:


I just wanted to thank you again for the guidance above. I surely
helped the appearance of my work and made the work much less
aggravating then it would have otherwise been. Without your
suggestions I confess I probably would have worked out 45-degree
miters on the ground, and then struggled from there... probably
clockwise (LOL!)

Well - that would have been your mistake Bill - everyone knows you go
counter-clockwise...

--

-Mike-