Larry Jaques wrote:

My light on the bottom left (of my diagram) is just so it's not dark
right where you walk in, because it's adjacent to the attic where there
can't be a light. You are correct (below) when you point out that I'm
not sure what will happen when the lights are combined and the light
bounces off of the walls.

Pure white walls, got it?

Larry, I couldn't find the exact message, but you commented a while back
that
I had a lot of fixtures corresponding to one of my switches. That stuck
in my head
and I thought I would let you know that I decided to proceed with this 3
switch model:

1 2 | 2

3 3 3

1 2 2

3 | 3


That way (1) , (1 and 2) , (3), and (1 and 2 and 3) make sense.
It looks alot like Lew's model from months ago, no?

Ironicly, I actually formulated it by candlelight following a recent
lightning
strike while I had no electricity, cable, phone, or Internet. There was
nothing to do...

I will have to go to one of those fancy electrical suppliers to find
an external ("weatherproof type") 3-gang swithbox. The Borgs only have
the 1 and 2 gang varieties.

I still remember what you said: "pure white". I think I'm going
to go with egg shell. I prepped an old wall having a lot of old holes
yesterday. Hopefully I'll be able to
prime everything soon. Will cleaning the "stipple" on the ceiling with
a broom be enough prep for it?
I washed the other old surfaces with soap and water.

Except for some "throwaway" brushes I inherited, I don't have any
painting supplies at all.
Hopefully I'll be able to locate a 6 foot handle (I don't want to pay
dearly for a telescoping one
since I really don't need it)? I just need to reach over the deer crap
in the middle of the floor to paint the ceiling...lol.
Silly question: Is one coat of primer (Zinsser, "FastPrime 2, Primer
and Sealer") all that is typically applied?
I never primed a wall before; I need to get out more.

Things are progessing a bit slower than I would have liked, as I took a
few weeks off when the heat and humidity became "oppressive".
Conditions are much better now. Even the grass is growing slow. : )

Bill

On Fri, 19 Aug 2011 03:37:49 -0400, Bill
wrote:


Larry Jaques wrote:

My light on the bottom left (of my diagram) is just so it's not dark
right where you walk in, because it's adjacent to the attic where there
can't be a light. You are correct (below) when you point out that I'm
not sure what will happen when the lights are combined and the light
bounces off of the walls.

Pure white walls, got it?

Larry, I couldn't find the exact message, but you commented a while back
that
I had a lot of fixtures corresponding to one of my switches. That stuck
in my head
and I thought I would let you know that I decided to proceed with this 3
switch model:

1 2 | 2

3 3 3

1 2 2

3 | 3


That way (1) , (1 and 2) , (3), and (1 and 2 and 3) make sense.
It looks alot like Lew's model from months ago, no?

How many of those are over the area of the garage door? Being able to
turn those off if you had the door open would be an idea.

I often go out to the shop (like last week, adding shorter belt holes)
and just use the bench/vise for a minute, so lighting just the row
over the bench is another possibile config. I guess your 1 is kinda
sorta like that, but more of a general, softer full-shop lighting.
The original | lights are on 1, oui? 3's kinda weird, but I guess it
fills in the holes. Why no flexible conduit for a movable light under
the attic access hole, hmm? gd&r


Ironicly, I actually formulated it by candlelight following a recent
lightning
strike while I had no electricity, cable, phone, or Internet. There was
nothing to do...

So you a**led it out, eh? Good for you. giggle


I will have to go to one of those fancy electrical suppliers to find
an external ("weatherproof type") 3-gang swithbox. The Borgs only have
the 1 and 2 gang varieties.

Why not leave the original as-is?


I still remember what you said: "pure white". I think I'm going
to go with egg shell. I prepped an old wall having a lot of old holes
yesterday. Hopefully I'll be able to
prime everything soon.

Bueno, bwana.


Will cleaning the "stipple" on the ceiling with
a broom be enough prep for it?
I washed the other old surfaces with soap and water.

If you reeeeally want to keep (a truly -bad- idea) the popcorn, you'll
have to use a special paint on it. Talk to the paint store nerd.


Except for some "throwaway" brushes I inherited, I don't have any
painting supplies at all.

You'll want to roll the shop, and throwaway brushes can handle cutting
in. Important note: cut-in and paint 8' wide areas so the cutins
don't dry or they'll show. I finally learned that trick, decades late.


Hopefully I'll be able to locate a 6 foot handle (I don't want to pay
dearly for a telescoping one
since I really don't need it)?

Yes you do, but you just don't realize it yet. I found one on a
squeegee, then got a better one at a garage sale for $3. Now that I've
used them for 9 years, I'd spend $30 on a new one if I needed it.
I put all sorts of things on the end: brushes, rollers, brooms,
squeegees, roof rakes. My 6-footer is the most used. I can roll to
11' high with it, without a ladder.


I just need to reach over the deer crap
in the middle of the floor to paint the ceiling...lol.

I dare not ask.


Silly question: Is one coat of primer (Zinsser, "FastPrime 2, Primer
and Sealer") all that is typically applied?
I never primed a wall before; I need to get out more.

Yes, one coat usually does it. It seals the drywall so it doesn't suck
the gloss out of the paint and it takes less paint. Interior primer is
$40-50 for 5gal buckets, and the cheap stuff works fine for your new
(or non-stained old) drywall, if you haven't already bought the
Zinsser.


Things are progessing a bit slower than I would have liked, as I took a
few weeks off when the heat and humidity became "oppressive".
Conditions are much better now.

Early mornings and late nights solve that problem, especially since
you can now sleep in if you're up late. I'm up at 4am most mornings,
and 95% awake before my little toes hit the carpet, so early mornings
are when I get a lot of work done. Anything inside and quiet work
outside.


Even the grass is growing slow. : )

Mine isn't until I water it. That's why I want to get rid of it.

--
....in order that a man may be happy, it is
necessary that he should not only be capable
of his work, but a good judge of his work.
-- John Ruskin

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 19 Aug 2011 03:37:49 -0400,
wrote:


Larry Jaques wrote:

My light on the bottom left (of my diagram) is just so it's not dark
right where you walk in, because it's adjacent to the attic where there
can't be a light. You are correct (below) when you point out that I'm
not sure what will happen when the lights are combined and the light
bounces off of the walls.

Pure white walls, got it?

Larry, I couldn't find the exact message, but you commented a while back
that
I had a lot of fixtures corresponding to one of my switches. That stuck
in my head
and I thought I would let you know that I decided to proceed with this 3
switch model:

1 2 | 2

3 3 3

1 2 2

3 | 3


That way (1) , (1 and 2) , (3), and (1 and 2 and 3) make sense.
It looks alot like Lew's model from months ago, no?

By the way, the two existing lights (marked '|') are on a separate
branch circuit from the main panel. Their switch is conveniently
located next to the door in the kitchen. That those 2 lights are powered
from the main panel, rather than the shop subpanel, makes for a safer
operation, I think.


How many of those are over the area of the garage door?

4, the third "column".

Being able to
turn those off if you had the door open would be an idea.

Yes, that would be nice. Just another switch and some
more wire I suppose. Perhaps I'll save that for a future enhancement?
I'm in the small group for whom it would Not have occurred to install
lights over the garage door in the first place! ; ) Last summer, I
was planning for 4 new fixtures and somehow that number ballooned to 11,
and the single switch box I had installed became totally inadequate!

Today I picked up a Red Dot brand 3-gang external switch box (for "wet
locations") from Kirby-Risk. If you add together the prices of the
1-gang and 2-gang models at the BORGs, and multiply the result by 3, the
result is just about what I paid. Of course, the price rose 40% after I
told him how many I wanted. At least I finally visited a Kirby-Risk
store..in fact, I visited 2 of them. Before going to Kirby-Risk, I
visited an electrical supplier that went out of business and another one
that didn't actually sell electrical supplies. So yes, it was a full
half-day event, but if I didn't push myself a little I wouldn't have
things to write about. ; )

To install the switch box, are you just supposed to drill some holes
through the back? I have a more intersting question regarding it's
installation which I'll put in new thread.


Why no flexible conduit for a movable light under
the attic access hole, hmm?gd&r

You're flirting with code violations there, buddy! I think the minor one
is that (I think) flexible conduit needs to be secured every 4 feet!
I do have a shop-light resting just inside the access hole. I could
maybe hang it from the rafters?



I will have to go to one of those fancy electrical suppliers to find
an external ("weatherproof type") 3-gang swithbox. The Borgs only have
the 1 and 2 gang varieties.

Why not leave the original as-is?

Only 1 switch?
Hmmm.. you mean use 2 boxes? Saving money is the only rationale I can
think of for that. Remember, I'm after (like Hemmingway), "A Clean,
Well-lighted Place". Neatness counts! : )


Will cleaning the "stipple" on the ceiling with
a broom be enough prep for it?
I washed the other old surfaces with soap and water.

If you reeeeally want to keep (a truly -bad- idea) the popcorn, you'll
have to use a special paint on it. Talk to the paint store nerd.

He steered me towards the primer I mentioned (for everything). He
(salesguy at Menards) was suggesting DutchBoy paint for everything.
White!


You'll want to roll the shop, and throwaway brushes can handle cutting
in. Important note: cut-in and paint 8' wide areas so the cutins
don't dry or they'll show. I finally learned that trick, decades late.


I have found cutting in about 4 inches to be adequate. I already learned
the lesson on not getting too far ahead of yourself on the cutting-in. I
did a lot of painting for 2 summers when I was 19-20. All of my old
supplies are long gone but I mostly remember how to do it though I feel
like I've lost the rhythm. I had my "system" down pretty well, but I
never painted new work or stipple.

Early mornings and late nights solve that problem, especially since
you can now sleep in if you're up late. I'm up at 4am most mornings,
and 95% awake before my little toes hit the carpet, so early mornings
are when I get a lot of work done. Anything inside and quiet work
outside.

Working at night suits me fine, but I don't have a good place to clean
up (drywall mud, etc.) in the dark. Getting up dang-early sounds like a
good way to go. It integrates better for getting other things done too.



Even the grass is growing slow. : )

Mine isn't until I water it. That's why I want to get rid of it.

Grass is a time burner fo' sho'. Weeds may even be worse. I picked 6
hours worth of old ones along the curb this week. Roots were up to 8+
inches. On the 2nd day I started using a pair of pliers along with the
standard week tool (which I recommend).


Thanks for your help!
Bill

On Sat, 20 Aug 2011 00:09:06 -0400, Bill
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 19 Aug 2011 03:37:49 -0400,
wrote:


Larry Jaques wrote:

My light on the bottom left (of my diagram) is just so it's not dark
right where you walk in, because it's adjacent to the attic where there
can't be a light. You are correct (below) when you point out that I'm
not sure what will happen when the lights are combined and the light
bounces off of the walls.

Pure white walls, got it?

Larry, I couldn't find the exact message, but you commented a while back
that
I had a lot of fixtures corresponding to one of my switches. That stuck
in my head
and I thought I would let you know that I decided to proceed with this 3
switch model:

1 2 | 2

3 3 3

1 2 2

3 | 3


That way (1) , (1 and 2) , (3), and (1 and 2 and 3) make sense.
It looks alot like Lew's model from months ago, no?

By the way, the two existing lights (marked '|') are on a separate
branch circuit from the main panel. Their switch is conveniently
located next to the door in the kitchen. That those 2 lights are powered
from the main panel, rather than the shop subpanel, makes for a safer
operation, I think.

Yeah, if you don't lose all power. Hang flashlights on some of the
tools and over the bench. These are inexpensive (2 for $3, or often
free with HF coupons from magazines. They store well/light well, and
have a handy hang strap.) http://goo.gl/Dz2jJ http://goo.gl/cq5BB


How many of those are over the area of the garage door?

4, the third "column".

Bueno.


Being able to
turn those off if you had the door open would be an idea.

Yes, that would be nice. Just another switch and some
more wire I suppose. Perhaps I'll save that for a future enhancement?
I'm in the small group for whom it would Not have occurred to install
lights over the garage door in the first place! ; ) Last summer, I
was planning for 4 new fixtures and somehow that number ballooned to 11,
and the single switch box I had installed became totally inadequate!

No comment. kaff, kaff


Today I picked up a Red Dot brand 3-gang external switch box (for "wet
locations") from Kirby-Risk. If you add together the prices of the
1-gang and 2-gang models at the BORGs, and multiply the result by 3, the
result is just about what I paid. Of course, the price rose 40% after I
told him how many I wanted. At least I finally visited a Kirby-Risk
store..in fact, I visited 2 of them. Before going to Kirby-Risk, I
visited an electrical supplier that went out of business and another one
that didn't actually sell electrical supplies. So yes, it was a full
half-day event, but if I didn't push myself a little I wouldn't have
things to write about. ; )

Oy, vay! Well, at least you have one.
Why waterproof? Because you wanted surface-mount?
http://goo.gl/2REjZ (rub, rub)


To install the switch box, are you just supposed to drill some holes
through the back? I have a more intersting question regarding it's
installation which I'll put in new thread.


Why no flexible conduit for a movable light under
the attic access hole, hmm?gd&r

You're flirting with code violations there, buddy! I think the minor one
is that (I think) flexible conduit needs to be secured every 4 feet!
I do have a shop-light resting just inside the access hole. I could
maybe hang it from the rafters?

There ya go! g


I will have to go to one of those fancy electrical suppliers to find
an external ("weatherproof type") 3-gang swithbox. The Borgs only have
the 1 and 2 gang varieties.

Why not leave the original as-is?

Only 1 switch?
Hmmm.. you mean use 2 boxes? Saving money is the only rationale I can
think of for that. Remember, I'm after (like Hemmingway), "A Clean,
Well-lighted Place". Neatness counts! : )

2 boxes. Original switch where it is, add for the other circuits.
Logic vs ARmingway. shrug


Will cleaning the "stipple" on the ceiling with
a broom be enough prep for it?
I washed the other old surfaces with soap and water.

If you reeeeally want to keep (a truly -bad- idea) the popcorn, you'll
have to use a special paint on it. Talk to the paint store nerd.

He steered me towards the primer I mentioned (for everything). He
(salesguy at Menards) was suggesting DutchBoy paint for everything.
White!

No, I meant for you to ask a real painter at a real store, sir.
Latex primer on popcorn will accomplish the same stripping effect I
suggested, but not quite what you expected. That could be fun, tho.
Have the wifey take movies of your encounter. It'll be a hit on
YouTube, fer sher. (I really shouldn't have said anything, and simply
let you just have that fine experience, but we're buds...


You'll want to roll the shop, and throwaway brushes can handle cutting
in. Important note: cut-in and paint 8' wide areas so the cutins
don't dry or they'll show. I finally learned that trick, decades late.


I have found cutting in about 4 inches to be adequate. I already learned
the lesson on not getting too far ahead of yourself on the cutting-in. I
did a lot of painting for 2 summers when I was 19-20. All of my old
supplies are long gone but I mostly remember how to do it though I feel
like I've lost the rhythm.

It comes back to you like riding a bike. Muscle memory.


I had my "system" down pretty well, but I
never painted new work or stipple.

Other than _having_ to prime, it's not much different. Popcorn, OTOH,
is a whole 'nother bag of ****. Evil stuff just waiting to fark ya.
You obviously have no idea the evil you're dealing with, but you will.
Within 6" of the first roller touching it. titter

I'd rent an airless and spray the whole thing (-after- depopcorning.)
Go primer @ 7am, paint @ noon, take the afternoon off, then put up the
bats and fixtures the next morning.


Early mornings and late nights solve that problem, especially since
you can now sleep in if you're up late. I'm up at 4am most mornings,
and 95% awake before my little toes hit the carpet, so early mornings
are when I get a lot of work done. Anything inside and quiet work
outside.

Working at night suits me fine, but I don't have a good place to clean
up (drywall mud, etc.) in the dark. Getting up dang-early sounds like a
good way to go. It integrates better for getting other things done too.



Even the grass is growing slow. : )

Mine isn't until I water it. That's why I want to get rid of it.

Grass is a time burner fo' sho'. Weeds may even be worse. I picked 6
hours worth of old ones along the curb this week. Roots were up to 8+
inches. On the 2nd day I started using a pair of pliers along with the
standard week tool (which I recommend).


Thanks for your help!
Bill

--
It is characteristic of all deep human problems that they are
not to be approached without some humor and some bewilderment.
-- Freeman Dyson

Larry Jaques wrote:

Today I picked up a Red Dot brand 3-gang external switch box (for "wet
locations") from Kirby-Risk.

Oy, vay! Well, at least you have one.
Why waterproof? Because you wanted surface-mount?

Yes, I was going to go behind the scenes with flexible metal conduit,
but Doug Miller talked me into surface-mount.


http://goo.gl/2REjZ (rub, rub)

They seem to have a nice assortment of covers. Thanks. Why all the
rubbing? You got dust in your eyes?


Only 1 switch?
Hmmm.. you mean use 2 boxes? Saving money is the only rationale I can
think of for that. Remember, I'm after (like Hemmingway), "A Clean,
Well-lighted Place". Neatness counts! : )

2 boxes. Original switch where it is, add for the other circuits.
Logic vs ARmingway.shrug

"A Clean, Well-lighted Place" should not feature unnecessary
distractions. It may also be good for business if I exhibit a good
sense of styylle. lol.. : ) I don't think I want people to feel like
they are standing in the Sanford Arms (an archaic tv reference).



Latex primer on popcorn will accomplish the same stripping effect I
suggested, but not quite what you expected.

Hmmm... Thank you for the heads up. It's not really "popcorn", it's
flatter, but I assume your comment still applies. I clearly need to
investigate this further. From your comments, it sounds like the stuff
is going to roll right off the ceiling while I try to paint it. Correct?


I had my "system" down pretty well, but I
never painted new work or stipple.

Other than _having_ to prime, it's not much different. Popcorn, OTOH,
is a whole 'nother bag of ****. Evil stuff just waiting to fark ya.
You obviously have no idea the evil you're dealing with, but you will.
Within 6" of the first roller touching it.titter

Oh Boy....



I'd rent an airless and spray the whole thing (-after- depopcorning.)
Go primer @ 7am, paint @ noon, take the afternoon off, then put up the
bats and fixtures the next morning.

Why *spray* the ceiling instead of rolling it? That would seem to
create more work covering stuff. I think I can reach everything with the
5' handles I have (I found one handle attached to a brush I use for
cleaning the deck and another one on a sidewalk sweeper).

I need to take time out to grumble some about the popcorn...

Bill

On Sat, 20 Aug 2011 17:34:52 -0400, Bill
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:

Today I picked up a Red Dot brand 3-gang external switch box (for "wet
locations") from Kirby-Risk.

Oy, vay! Well, at least you have one.
Why waterproof? Because you wanted surface-mount?

Yes, I was going to go behind the scenes with flexible metal conduit,
but Doug Miller talked me into surface-mount.

Your loss.


http://goo.gl/2REjZ (rub, rub)

They seem to have a nice assortment of covers. Thanks. Why all the
rubbing? You got dust in your eyes?

No, just rubbing in the low, low prices. Neever mind.


Only 1 switch?
Hmmm.. you mean use 2 boxes? Saving money is the only rationale I can
think of for that. Remember, I'm after (like Hemmingway), "A Clean,
Well-lighted Place". Neatness counts! : )

2 boxes. Original switch where it is, add for the other circuits.
Logic vs ARmingway.shrug

"A Clean, Well-lighted Place" should not feature unnecessary
distractions. It may also be good for business if I exhibit a good
sense of styylle. lol.. : ) I don't think I want people to feel like
they are standing in the Sanford Arms (an archaic tv reference).

arachaic TV reference entirely lost on me


Latex primer on popcorn will accomplish the same stripping effect I
suggested, but not quite what you expected.

Hmmm... Thank you for the heads up. It's not really "popcorn", it's
flatter, but I assume your comment still applies. I clearly need to
investigate this further. From your comments, it sounds like the stuff
is going to roll right off the ceiling while I try to paint it. Correct?

It's highly likely.


I had my "system" down pretty well, but I
never painted new work or stipple.

Other than _having_ to prime, it's not much different. Popcorn, OTOH,
is a whole 'nother bag of ****. Evil stuff just waiting to fark ya.
You obviously have no idea the evil you're dealing with, but you will.
Within 6" of the first roller touching it.titter

Oh Boy....



I'd rent an airless and spray the whole thing (-after- depopcorning.)
Go primer @ 7am, paint @ noon, take the afternoon off, then put up the
bats and fixtures the next morning.

Why *spray* the ceiling instead of rolling it? That would seem to
create more work covering stuff.

Not if you're going to paint the floor. (recommended)
2/3 of those inexpensive 10x25' rolls of plastic would do it.


I think I can reach everything with the
5' handles I have (I found one handle attached to a brush I use for
cleaning the deck and another one on a sidewalk sweeper).

Spraying is considerably quicker and a whole lot less work.


I need to take time out to grumble some about the popcorn...

Good idea. Take a quart sprayer with water in it up to the ceiling
and test an area you'll cover with a fixture.
http://goo.gl/RlZfC This is the stuff, right?
http://goo.gl/w9cTO Quick removal.

--
It is characteristic of all deep human problems that they are
not to be approached without some humor and some bewilderment.
-- Freeman Dyson

Larry Jaques wrote:

Good idea. Take a quart sprayer with water in it up to the ceiling
and test an area you'll cover with a fixture.
http://goo.gl/RlZfC This is the stuff, right?

Larry, I put a fresh picture on my web site:

http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/

I apologize that it's 5 MB, but this jpg accurately reveals the hidden
beauty of the stuff.

Bill

Larry Jaques wrote:

"A Clean, Well-lighted Place" should not feature unnecessary
distractions. It may also be good for business if I exhibit a good
sense of styylle. lol.. : ) I don't think I want people to feel like
they are standing in the Sanford Arms (an archaic tv reference).

arachaic TV reference entirely lost on me

Redd Foxx often referred to the "Sanford Arms" in describing his estate
on his tv show.


I'd rent an airless and spray the whole thing (-after- depopcorning.)
Go primer @ 7am, paint @ noon, take the afternoon off, then put up the
bats and fixtures the next morning.

Why *spray* the ceiling instead of rolling it? That would seem to
create more work covering stuff.

Not if you're going to paint the floor. (recommended)
2/3 of those inexpensive 10x25' rolls of plastic would do it.


I just happen to have most of a 8'x100' roll I used to cover my DP and
BS. It's 3mil thick. I observed that it's more slippery to walk on than
the really cheap painters plastic (which is more like the plastic bags
used in retail).

Painting the floor sounds alot like planting grass seed.


Spraying is considerably quicker and a whole lot less work.

If I had a sprayer ready to go it might be more work. We're only talking
about 500 square feet. The prep. sounds much more time consuming. I
will wait until you examine the picture I posted for you on my web site
(see other message).



I need to take time out to grumble some about the popcorn...

Good idea. Take a quart sprayer with water in it up to the ceiling
and test an area you'll cover with a fixture.
http://goo.gl/RlZfC This is the stuff, right?
http://goo.gl/w9cTO Quick removal.

--
It is characteristic of all deep human problems that they are
not to be approached without some humor and some bewilderment.
-- Freeman Dyson

On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 01:56:43 -0400, Bill
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:

Good idea. Take a quart sprayer with water in it up to the ceiling
and test an area you'll cover with a fixture.
http://goo.gl/RlZfC This is the stuff, right?

Larry, I put a fresh picture on my web site:

http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/

I apologize that it's 5 MB, but this jpg accurately reveals the hidden
beauty of the stuff.

Beauty? Eye of the beholder, I guess.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/stipple

I don't call that stipple, and have never heard that term used outside
of the art world. It's a drawing and painting technique.

I'd call your ceiling textured (drywall compound put on wet and the
trowel pulled straight off?) but it's unlike any I've seen before.
I think you'll be safe to paint it (good primer, then regular paint),
but I'd wet or paint a small section to see if it separated from the
roof before doing the full paint job. Use a 3/4" or deeper nap on the
roller for filling those voids. Lambswool is great for the deeper
textures. You'll likely lose some of the longer stalactites, so have a
brush comb ready to clean them out of the roller. I still think
spraying is the way to go for that size room, old sport, especially if
you value your time at all. (No cutting-in!)

Carry on! (Or carrion, if you fall off the ladder.

--
It is characteristic of all deep human problems that they are
not to be approached without some humor and some bewilderment.
-- Freeman Dyson

On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 02:13:56 -0400, Bill
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:

"A Clean, Well-lighted Place" should not feature unnecessary
distractions. It may also be good for business if I exhibit a good
sense of styylle. lol.. : ) I don't think I want people to feel like
they are standing in the Sanford Arms (an archaic tv reference).

arachaic TV reference entirely lost on me

Redd Foxx often referred to the "Sanford Arms" in describing his estate
on his tv show.

I watched a handful of his shows, so I'm surprised I missed that one.


I'd rent an airless and spray the whole thing (-after- depopcorning.)
Go primer @ 7am, paint @ noon, take the afternoon off, then put up the
bats and fixtures the next morning.

Why *spray* the ceiling instead of rolling it? That would seem to
create more work covering stuff.

Not if you're going to paint the floor. (recommended)
2/3 of those inexpensive 10x25' rolls of plastic would do it.


I just happen to have most of a 8'x100' roll I used to cover my DP and
BS. It's 3mil thick. I observed that it's more slippery to walk on than
the really cheap painters plastic (which is more like the plastic bags
used in retail).

Painting the floor sounds alot like planting grass seed.

Painting or touchup once or twice a year is a whole lot less
maintenance than mowing weekly, fertilizing, sprinkler systems, mower
service, mower purchase, gas, oil, etc. A whole lot less.
And once you've worked on a painted floor, you'll never go back. If
you drop only one precious spring or screw in that time, you'll thank
your lucky stars. Dust cleanup is easier, too. And think of all the
-cushioning- all those mils of paint give your feet!


Spraying is considerably quicker and a whole lot less work.

If I had a sprayer ready to go it might be more work. We're only talking
about 500 square feet. The prep. sounds much more time consuming. I
will wait until you examine the picture I posted for you on my web site
(see other message).

A paint stick cuts half your time in painting over a brush or roller
and pan. A sprayer cuts a paint stick's time in half, including rental
time. Since you'll spray primer and then paint on all 5 surfaces
500sf + 4x250sf = 1,500sf) and you can do it without a ladder...


I need to take time out to grumble some about the popcorn...

It appears that you don't have popcorn after all. Rejoice!

--
It is characteristic of all deep human problems that they are
not to be approached without some humor and some bewilderment.
-- Freeman Dyson

Larry Jaques wrote in
:

On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 02:13:56 -0400, Bill
wrote:
*snip*
Painting the floor sounds alot like planting grass seed.

Painting or touchup once or twice a year is a whole lot less
maintenance than mowing weekly, fertilizing, sprinkler systems, mower
service, mower purchase, gas, oil, etc. A whole lot less.
And once you've worked on a painted floor, you'll never go back. If
you drop only one precious spring or screw in that time, you'll thank
your lucky stars. Dust cleanup is easier, too. And think of all the
-cushioning- all those mils of paint give your feet!
*snip*


I've had a couple painted concrete floors that started to peel after a
short period of time. (Just a few years.) I want to stress the
importance of proper prep, as I think that's what's causing the issues
with peeling paint. (Improper prep.)

I guess some methods require a muriatic acid wash or etch to ensure good
paint adhesion.

One last tip: If you're working with a precious spring sweep the whole
area before beginning the project. That way, it'll show up better as it
inevitably jumps yards away.

Puckdropper

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 01:56:43 -0400,
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:

Good idea. Take a quart sprayer with water in it up to the ceiling
and test an area you'll cover with a fixture.
http://goo.gl/RlZfC This is the stuff, right?

Larry, I put a fresh picture on my web site:

http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/

I apologize that it's 5 MB, but this jpg accurately reveals the hidden
beauty of the stuff.

Beauty? Eye of the beholder, I guess.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/stipple

I don't call that stipple, and have never heard that term used outside
of the art world. It's a drawing and painting technique.

I'd call your ceiling textured (drywall compound put on wet and the
trowel pulled straight off?) but it's unlike any I've seen before.
I think you'll be safe to paint it (good primer, then regular paint),
but I'd wet or paint a small section to see if it separated from the
roof before doing the full paint job. Use a 3/4" or deeper nap on the
roller for filling those voids. Lambswool is great for the deeper
textures. You'll likely lose some of the longer stalactites, so have a
brush comb ready to clean them out of the roller. I still think
spraying is the way to go for that size room, old sport, especially if
you value your time at all. (No cutting-in!)

Carry on! (Or carrion, if you fall off the ladder.

--
It is characteristic of all deep human problems that they are
not to be approached without some humor and some bewilderment.
-- Freeman Dyson

Thank you!

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 20 Aug 2011 17:34:52 -0400,
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:

Today I picked up a Red Dot brand 3-gang external switch box (for "wet
locations") from Kirby-Risk.

Oy, vay! Well, at least you have one.
Why waterproof? Because you wanted surface-mount?

Yes, I was going to go behind the scenes with flexible metal conduit,


Your loss.


I think I agree with you. I think I'm going to take the box back. Thank
you for helping to give me the strength to change my mind. No doubt
others would do it a differently--and most of them would surely be
finished by now. On the positive side, consideration of this approach
was educational. If I am unable to thread the FMC and stay within the
code, in my circumstances, then I can come back to this approach.

The technicalities concern how much of the FMC is allow to be exposed
(4', I believe). I may have to do some new out of the box thinking.

Bill

On 21 Aug 2011 16:21:04 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote in
:

On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 02:13:56 -0400, Bill
wrote:
*snip*
Painting the floor sounds alot like planting grass seed.

Painting or touchup once or twice a year is a whole lot less
maintenance than mowing weekly, fertilizing, sprinkler systems, mower
service, mower purchase, gas, oil, etc. A whole lot less.
And once you've worked on a painted floor, you'll never go back. If
you drop only one precious spring or screw in that time, you'll thank
your lucky stars. Dust cleanup is easier, too. And think of all the
-cushioning- all those mils of paint give your feet!
*snip*


I've had a couple painted concrete floors that started to peel after a
short period of time. (Just a few years.) I want to stress the
importance of proper prep, as I think that's what's causing the issues
with peeling paint. (Improper prep.)

My shop (garage) floor had been sealed, so it was a matter of getting
all the old carpet padding adhesive off first. It had been converted
into another bedroom, so I converted it back. And I had HVAC vent
installed so it's conditioned. My shop door to the house looks like
swiss cheese since I drilled it and put in a pair of Filtrete filters
on the shop side. I don't use any chemicals in there unless the
outside or garage door is open and a blower is going.

Yes, prep is of utmost importance. Clean the concrete. Let it dry
_completely_. Now seal it if it's not already sealed. (You want that
even if you don't paint it because it stops ALL concrete dust from
flying.) Then paint it.

I've scraped bits off moving tools around, but none has peeled off.


I guess some methods require a muriatic acid wash or etch to ensure good
paint adhesion.

Only epoxy, and that's a bear to do, considering prep, neutralization,
and the whole epoxy thing. Pass. I used porch and floor paint.


One last tip: If you're working with a precious spring sweep the whole
area before beginning the project. That way, it'll show up better as it
inevitably jumps yards away.

Yes, or use the dust collector attachment as a vacuum cleaner.

Better yet, open the door and blow it out. /lazy wooddorker

--
It is characteristic of all deep human problems that they are
not to be approached without some humor and some bewilderment.
-- Freeman Dyson

Larry Jaques wrote:

Painting or touchup once or twice a year is a whole lot less
maintenance than mowing weekly, fertilizing, sprinkler systems, mower
service, mower purchase, gas, oil, etc. A whole lot less.
And once you've worked on a painted floor, you'll never go back. If
you drop only one precious spring or screw in that time, you'll thank
your lucky stars. Dust cleanup is easier, too. And think of all the
-cushioning- all those mils of paint give your feet!

I've got 3' wide strip of carpeting I often unroll to work on. Besides
for protecting your knees, it keeps your light fixtures from being
scraped up too. BTW, a little trick I invented for finding those lost
springs and screws is a powerful magnet (I've got a 2 inch stack someone
gave me from electronic devices--equivalent to the "rare earth" variety,
I think). It even works in the grass!



Spraying is considerably quicker and a whole lot less work.

A paint stick cuts half your time in painting over a brush or roller
and pan. A sprayer cuts a paint stick's time in half, including rental
time. Since you'll spray primer and then paint on all 5 surfaces
500sf + 4x250sf = 1,500sf) and you can do it without a ladder...

I just looked it up. I had never heard of a paint stick. It appears, I
have to review my FMC fundamentals and do some more drywall work to do
before I'm ready to paint. "Oh when your smiling... " (an archaic
musical reference combined with a tad bit of sacrasm (sic)).



I need to take time out to grumble some about the popcorn...

It appears that you don't have popcorn after all. Rejoice!

Good, I don't need to fear "dust" in my finshes? Or just, rolling it
off the ceiling? : )


"Two steps forward and three steps back, you'll never get very far like
that..." (words from a popular country song in the mid 80's, I think).

Puckdropper wrote:
Larry wrote in
:

On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 02:13:56 -0400,
wrote:
*snip*
Painting the floor sounds alot like planting grass seed.

Painting or touchup once or twice a year is a whole lot less
maintenance than mowing weekly, fertilizing, sprinkler systems, mower
service, mower purchase, gas, oil, etc. A whole lot less.
And once you've worked on a painted floor, you'll never go back. If
you drop only one precious spring or screw in that time, you'll thank
your lucky stars. Dust cleanup is easier, too. And think of all the
-cushioning- all those mils of paint give your feet!
*snip*


I've had a couple painted concrete floors that started to peel after a
short period of time. (Just a few years.) I want to stress the
importance of proper prep, as I think that's what's causing the issues
with peeling paint. (Improper prep.)

I guess some methods require a muriatic acid wash or etch to ensure good
paint adhesion.

One last tip: If you're working with a precious spring sweep the whole
area before beginning the project. That way, it'll show up better as it
inevitably jumps yards away.

Puckdropper


Last time that happened, I was working on a fishing reel at the kitchen
table. The precious little spring jumped into the shag carpeting at
least twice. A magnet helped save my sanity.

BTW, your recommendations to clean the floor well before painting sounds
like good advice!

Bill

Larry Jaques wrote:

My shop (garage) floor had been sealed, so it was a matter of getting
all the old carpet padding adhesive off first. It had been converted
into another bedroom, so I converted it back. And I had HVAC vent
installed so it's conditioned. My shop door to the house looks like
swiss cheese since I drilled it and put in a pair of Filtrete filters
on the shop side. I don't use any chemicals in there unless the
outside or garage door is open and a blower is going.

Did you had all of this inspected? Doens't a bedroom have to have a
closet or something like that? j/k : )

On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 17:04:32 -0400, Bill
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:

Painting or touchup once or twice a year is a whole lot less
maintenance than mowing weekly, fertilizing, sprinkler systems, mower
service, mower purchase, gas, oil, etc. A whole lot less.
And once you've worked on a painted floor, you'll never go back. If
you drop only one precious spring or screw in that time, you'll thank
your lucky stars. Dust cleanup is easier, too. And think of all the
-cushioning- all those mils of paint give your feet!

I've got 3' wide strip of carpeting I often unroll to work on. Besides
for protecting your knees, it keeps your light fixtures from being
scraped up too.

OK.


BTW, a little trick I invented for finding those lost
springs and screws is a powerful magnet (I've got a 2 inch stack someone
gave me from electronic devices--equivalent to the "rare earth" variety,
I think). It even works in the grass!

I'm sure it's really fun finding a 1/8" dia x 1/2" long spring in
2,463 sf of grass.


Spraying is considerably quicker and a whole lot less work.

A paint stick cuts half your time in painting over a brush or roller
and pan. A sprayer cuts a paint stick's time in half, including rental
time. Since you'll spray primer and then paint on all 5 surfaces
500sf + 4x250sf = 1,500sf) and you can do it without a ladder...

I just looked it up. I had never heard of a paint stick. It appears, I

http://www.homeright.com/showcat.asp?cat=1


have to review my FMC fundamentals and do some more drywall work to do

FMC? http://www.fmc.com/ ? !


before I'm ready to paint. "Oh when your smiling... " (an archaic
musical reference combined with a tad bit of sacrasm (sic)).

Eek! Not YAAMR!


I need to take time out to grumble some about the popcorn...

It appears that you don't have popcorn after all. Rejoice!

Good, I don't need to fear "dust" in my finshes? Or just, rolling it
off the ceiling? : )

With the whole room painted, from the ceiling. If you cut wood,
you'll always have dust.


"Two steps forward and three steps back, you'll never get very far like
that..." (words from a popular country song in the mid 80's, I think).

Uh, Clem.

--
It is characteristic of all deep human problems that they are
not to be approached without some humor and some bewilderment.
-- Freeman Dyson

On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 16:29:10 -0400, Bill
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 20 Aug 2011 17:34:52 -0400,
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:

Today I picked up a Red Dot brand 3-gang external switch box (for "wet
locations") from Kirby-Risk.

Oy, vay! Well, at least you have one.
Why waterproof? Because you wanted surface-mount?

Yes, I was going to go behind the scenes with flexible metal conduit,

Your loss.

Oh, _that_ FMC.


I think I agree with you. I think I'm going to take the box back. Thank
you for helping to give me the strength to change my mind.

Jewelcome. (Send money.)


No doubt
others would do it a differently--and most of them would surely be
finished by now.

chortle


On the positive side, consideration of this approach
was educational. If I am unable to thread the FMC and stay within the
code, in my circumstances, then I can come back to this approach.

Having done drywall now, and probably having another piece 19" wide
and 4' long, you could just cut out the piece over the wiring and run
the conduit to the box, then quickly replace the drywall, mud/sand and
prime/paint. Piece o' cake, duck soup.

This kind of work is what the HF multifunction tool excels at. Use the
half moon cutter butted against a piece of furring strip for straight
cuts.

The technicalities concern how much of the FMC is allow to be exposed
(4', I believe). I may have to do some new out of the box thinking.

Here he goes again...

--
It is characteristic of all deep human problems that they are
not to be approached without some humor and some bewilderment.
-- Freeman Dyson

Larry Jaques wrote in
:

On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 17:04:32 -0400, Bill
wrote:


BTW, a little trick I invented for finding those lost
springs and screws is a powerful magnet (I've got a 2 inch stack
someone gave me from electronic devices--equivalent to the "rare
earth" variety, I think). It even works in the grass!

I'm sure it's really fun finding a 1/8" dia x 1/2" long spring in
2,463 sf of grass.

If you simply attach several rare earth magnets to the front of your
mower, it might pick up the spring next time you mow the grass.

One of those sandblast/medical isolation chambers with the attached
rubber gloves might be just the thing for keeping springs where you can
find them. You could even build your own without the gloves. (I'd
probably STILL lose one once in a while.)



Good, I don't need to fear "dust" in my finshes? Or just, rolling it
off the ceiling? : )

With the whole room painted, from the ceiling. If you cut wood,
you'll always have dust.


I've been intending to build a finishing booth (even got some good
advice here about it) and just haven't gotten that far yet. It's
nothing more than a 3/4" PVC pipe frame covered with some cloth to keep
the dust out of the finish. No glue, so it can be disassembled later.

Puckdropper

Larry Jaques wrote:

have to review my FMC fundamentals and do some more drywall work to do

FMC? http://www.fmc.com/ ? !


From reading briefly about FMC, Rigid (EMT) is preferred. So I am
drawing up an EMT solution to pass in front of your critical eyes.

What I actually read is that, preferably, FMC is used in lengths of no
more than 24". Comments welcome.

I'm having a "big time" doing my conduit bends in SketchUp! : )

Bill

Larry Jaques wrote:

BTW, a little trick I invented for finding those lost
springs and screws is a powerful magnet (I've got a 2 inch stack someone
gave me from electronic devices--equivalent to the "rare earth" variety,
I think). It even works in the grass!

I'm sure it's really fun finding a 1/8" dia x 1/2" long spring in
2,463 sf of grass.

Seach for How To FANIAHS.


"Two steps forward and three steps back, you'll never get very far like
that..." (words from a popular country song in the mid 80's, I think).

Uh, Clem.

You mean Clement?

Somebody wrote:

BTW, a little trick I invented for finding those lost
springs and screws is a powerful magnet (I've got a 2 inch stack
someone gave me from electronic devices.
---------------------------------------
Those are known as "Jesus springs/screws" as in Jesus, where it go?

Over my career, I litterly gave away thousands of screwdrivers with a
small magnet one end.

Only problem with the screwdrivers is they had a set of hidden legs
which helped them to run away and hide.

Same people kept asking for replacementsgrin.

Lew

On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 20:50:57 -0400, Bill
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:

have to review my FMC fundamentals and do some more drywall work to do

FMC? http://www.fmc.com/ ? !


From reading briefly about FMC, Rigid (EMT) is preferred. So I am
drawing up an EMT solution to pass in front of your critical eyes.

giggle


What I actually read is that, preferably, FMC is used in lengths of no
more than 24". Comments welcome.

I thought you might use it to go from the ceiling to the wall.


I'm having a "big time" doing my conduit bends in SketchUp! : )

Got a bender yet? 1/2" emt is easy to work with. Go with light gauge
wire and I think you can use it. Consult your NEC.

Hell, you'll get this thing done by Easter if you keep going!

P.S: Prime and paint the furring strips and emt before putting them
up. Clean emt and fittings with lacquer thinner on a rag and it will
take off the machining oils.

--
It is characteristic of all deep human problems that they are
not to be approached without some humor and some bewilderment.
-- Freeman Dyson

On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 20:58:15 -0400, Bill
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:

BTW, a little trick I invented for finding those lost
springs and screws is a powerful magnet (I've got a 2 inch stack someone
gave me from electronic devices--equivalent to the "rare earth" variety,
I think). It even works in the grass!

I'm sure it's really fun finding a 1/8" dia x 1/2" long spring in
2,463 sf of grass.

Seach for How To FANIAHS.

I buy sewing needles by the box full, and I take lonely ladies to the
haystack.


"Two steps forward and three steps back, you'll never get very far like
that..." (words from a popular country song in the mid 80's, I think).

Uh, Clem.

You mean Clement?

Uh, Clem. (archaic humorous 1971 CD reference: Firesign Theater's "I
Think We're All Bozos On This Bus") Some 'splaining is done he
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Think...os_on_This_Bus


--
It is characteristic of all deep human problems that they are
not to be approached without some humor and some bewilderment.
-- Freeman Dyson

Larry Jaques wrote:

What I actually read is that, preferably, FMC is used in lengths of no
more than 24". Comments welcome.

I thought you might use it to go from the ceiling to the wall.

The problem is that these meet at the eave. You couldn't even get a
screwdriver close to there with taking a nail in the head or arm, let
alone seeing what you are doing. It was all I could do to run romex
through the top plate last summer (I make a hardboard panel to cover up
all the nails between rafters).




I'm having a "big time" doing my conduit bends in SketchUp! : )

Got a bender yet? 1/2" emt is easy to work with. Go with light gauge
wire and I think you can use it.

Yep, got a bender at auction and have lots of #14 colored wire.


Hell, you'll get this thing done by Easter if you keep going!

Classes start before the end of this week. If I could get things
painted by mid-September (when the avg temp dips below 55), I could hang
lights in the winter.


P.S: Prime and paint the furring strips and emt before putting them
up. Clean emt and fittings with lacquer thinner on a rag and it will
take off the machining oils.

Gosh, should I be thinking about furring strips?

Dentatured alcohol okay for removing the machining oils? I know we
don't want a fire, but we don't want rust either, right?

Larry Jaques wrote:

Uh, Clem.

You mean Clement?

Uh, Clem. (archaic humorous 1971 CD reference: Firesign Theater's "I
Think We're All Bozos On This Bus") Some 'splaining is done he
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Think...os_on_This_Bus


I read the explanation but I feel like I'm hearing the joke 40 years
after everyone else laughed.

Bill wrote:
Larry Jaques wrote:

Uh, Clem.

You mean Clement?

Uh, Clem. (archaic humorous 1971 CD reference: Firesign Theater's "I
Think We're All Bozos On This Bus") Some 'splaining is done he
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Think...os_on_This_Bus


I read the explanation but I feel like I'm hearing the joke 40 years
after everyone else laughed.

That sort of reminds me of AP.

On Mon, 22 Aug 2011 00:15:07 -0400, Bill
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:

What I actually read is that, preferably, FMC is used in lengths of no
more than 24". Comments welcome.

I thought you might use it to go from the ceiling to the wall.

The problem is that these meet at the eave. You couldn't even get a
screwdriver close to there with taking a nail in the head or arm, let
alone seeing what you are doing. It was all I could do to run romex
through the top plate last summer (I make a hardboard panel to cover up
all the nails between rafters).

Huh? You're surface mounting everything except the feeds to the
switches, which are in the wall, right? What's with eaves and top
plates? Everything is under them. You'll use EMT between the
fixtures and FMT from the center fixture to the wall with the
switches, under the top plate, oui?


I'm having a "big time" doing my conduit bends in SketchUp! : )

Got a bender yet? 1/2" emt is easy to work with. Go with light gauge
wire and I think you can use it.

Yep, got a bender at auction and have lots of #14 colored wire.

That'll do 'er.


Hell, you'll get this thing done by Easter if you keep going!

Classes start before the end of this week. If I could get things
painted by mid-September (when the avg temp dips below 55), I could hang
lights in the winter.

Yeah, paint while the heat is on!


P.S: Prime and paint the furring strips and emt before putting them
up. Clean emt and fittings with lacquer thinner on a rag and it will
take off the machining oils.

Gosh, should I be thinking about furring strips?

Buddy, YOU'RE the one who brought that little oddity up. Nobody else
even -thought- about it. (It'd be oogly, if you ask me.)


Dentatured alcohol okay for removing the machining oils? I know we
don't want a fire, but we don't want rust either, right?

Yes, no, and you're painting them, right? Appliance white spray or
same as walls/ceiling, whichever, to match the fixtures.

--
It is characteristic of all deep human problems that they are
not to be approached without some humor and some bewilderment.
-- Freeman Dyson

On Mon, 22 Aug 2011 00:20:51 -0400, Bill
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:

Uh, Clem.

You mean Clement?

Uh, Clem. (archaic humorous 1971 CD reference: Firesign Theater's "I
Think We're All Bozos On This Bus") Some 'splaining is done he
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Think...os_on_This_Bus


I read the explanation but I feel like I'm hearing the joke 40 years
after everyone else laughed.

Find someone with the album or CD. It's dated but funny. They were
better back in the old smokin'tokin years, IYKWIM.

--
It is characteristic of all deep human problems that they are
not to be approached without some humor and some bewilderment.
-- Freeman Dyson

Larry Jaques wrote:

Huh? You're surface mounting everything except the feeds to the
switches, which are in the wall, right?

and then feeding up from the switch box behind the wall.


What's with eaves and top plates? Everything is under them.

As of today, it is. Makes things easier! : )


You'll use EMT between the
fixtures and FMT from the center fixture to the wall with the
switches, oui?

Why not EMT here too (given that it's a higher standard, I probably
would have to buy at least $20 worth of FMT, and would have to learn to
connect it)?

Hell, you'll get this thing done by Easter if you keep going!

That would be nice.


Dentatured alcohol okay for removing the machining oils? I know we
don't want a fire, but we don't want rust either, right?

Yes, no, and you're painting them, right? Appliance white spray or
same as walls/ceiling, whichever, to match the fixtures.


It's nice to finally find out I'm going to be painting the EMT. Sheesh!
It seems like the correct type of paint will be important. I can
see that there are some safety issues involved. Thank you for mentioning
this. I would Not have painted it.... We won't worry about the stuff
running behind the wall from the switchbox to the ceiling (or we paint
it before installing it)?

http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/PlayingWithEMT.pdf

Thank you!
Bill

Bill wrote:


It's nice to finally find out I'm going to be painting the EMT.
Sheesh! It seems like the correct type of paint will be
important. I can see that there are some safety issues involved.
Thank you for mentioning this. I would Not have painted it.... We
won't worry about the stuff running behind the wall from the
switchbox to the ceiling (or we paint it before installing it)?


Why paint it? It's either galvanized or aluminum so it's not going to rust.
Just want it to blend in more?

--

-Mike-

On 8/21/2011 11:20 PM, Bill wrote:

I read the explanation but I feel like I'm hearing the joke 40 years
after everyone else laughed.

What else is new?

I don't think I've ever seen anyone agonize over the most trivial
building/electrical issues.

_ANY_ borg will have a display of books covering, in detail, every
conceivable issue you bring up.

You could buy a book, read, comprehend, and execute, and be done with
much quicker that typing a question and waiting on responses.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Swingman" wrote

_ANY_ borg will have a display of books covering, in detail, every
conceivable issue you bring up.

You could buy a book, read, comprehend, and execute, and be done with much
quicker that typing a question and waiting on responses.

Yep. Have done that one before. And end up with a good reference book on
the shelf to consult when other problems crop up in the future.

Heck, I have even gone to the Borg, looked up the pertinent info, bought my
parts and went home and fixed the problem. Look for the books with LOTS of
illustrations. Illustrations is a lost art. Those simple drawings do a
much better job of communicating what you need to do than photos. Look for
lots of color illustrations. Read carefully. Then, to quote a number of
favorite teachers of mine, FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS!! Don't get creative,
don't wing it, just follow the damn instructions. Particularly when doing
electrical work.

End of rant.

Swingman wrote:
On 8/21/2011 11:20 PM, Bill wrote:

I read the explanation but I feel like I'm hearing the joke 40 years
after everyone else laughed.

What else is new?

I don't think I've ever seen anyone agonize over the most trivial
building/electrical issues.

_ANY_ borg will have a display of books covering, in detail, every
conceivable issue you bring up.

You could buy a book, read, comprehend, and execute, and be done with
much quicker that typing a question and waiting on responses.

Not to mention a plethora of You Tube videos and pdf files revealed by a
simple google search. Bill just needs to learn to search and to accept what
he sees in the resultant returns - without overcomplicating everything.

--

-Mike-

Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:


It's nice to finally find out I'm going to be painting the EMT.
Sheesh! It seems like the correct type of paint will be
important. I can see that there are some safety issues involved.
Thank you for mentioning this. I would Not have painted it.... We
won't worry about the stuff running behind the wall from the
switchbox to the ceiling (or we paint it before installing it)?


Why paint it? It's either galvanized or aluminum so it's not going to rust.
Just want it to blend in more?

I wasn't going to paint it. Evidentally, Larry and I didn't realize it
was galvanized. He suggested I wipe the machine oil off, I asked about
rush, and he suggested paint. No harm done.

Swingman wrote:
On 8/21/2011 11:20 PM, Bill wrote:

I read the explanation but I feel like I'm hearing the joke 40 years
after everyone else laughed.

What else is new?

I don't think I've ever seen anyone agonize over the most trivial
building/electrical issues.

_ANY_ borg will have a display of books covering, in detail, every
conceivable issue you bring up.

You could buy a book, read, comprehend, and execute, and be done with
much quicker that typing a question and waiting on responses.


It's not all about being "done".

Sometimes I even create threads to promote discussion of what I perceive
are things of general interest (like hammers). Even on simple things,
we do not have agreement (use of EMT or FMT for instance?).

Sometimes I even take photos or create SketchUp models to help make my
posts more interesting (and it's good practice for me).

You were the one who suggested you don't want to read how to cut a
dove-tail joint everyday. I'm playing right into your hand, no?

Bill

Mike Marlow wrote:
Swingman wrote:
On 8/21/2011 11:20 PM, Bill wrote:

I read the explanation but I feel like I'm hearing the joke 40 years
after everyone else laughed.

What else is new?

I don't think I've ever seen anyone agonize over the most trivial
building/electrical issues.

_ANY_ borg will have a display of books covering, in detail, every
conceivable issue you bring up.

You could buy a book, read, comprehend, and execute, and be done with
much quicker that typing a question and waiting on responses.

Not to mention a plethora of You Tube videos and pdf files revealed by a
simple google search. Bill just needs to learn to search and to accept what
he sees in the resultant returns - without overcomplicating everything.


Bill is learning. Besides reading, talking and writing are other ways
of learning--and I don't have anyone that will listen to me talk about
such things. Writing is the only real opportunity I have to USE the
vocabulary (I noted that HTTN != THHN). I guess what I write is a
by-product of what I'm thinking about. Prescribe how you would like me
to organize my posts, and I will try to take it into consideration when
I post. I didn't post to the recent thread on spacing holes because I
didn't feel I could be helpful. Maybe you want to start a different
thread on methods of learning? I promise I will read it.

On Mon, 22 Aug 2011 15:34:57 -0400, Bill
wrote:

Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:


It's nice to finally find out I'm going to be painting the EMT.
Sheesh! It seems like the correct type of paint will be
important. I can see that there are some safety issues involved.
Thank you for mentioning this. I would Not have painted it.... We
won't worry about the stuff running behind the wall from the
switchbox to the ceiling (or we paint it before installing it)?


Why paint it? It's either galvanized or aluminum so it's not going to rust.
Just want it to blend in more?

I wasn't going to paint it. Evidentally, Larry and I didn't realize it
was galvanized. He suggested I wipe the machine oil off, I asked about
rush, and he suggested paint. No harm done.

Yes, they're galvanized, but there is invariably oil on them. I use a
solvent on anything I paint -except- most softwood for construction
projects.

I don't recall you asking about rust, so I guess I missed it.

--
It is characteristic of all deep human problems that they are
not to be approached without some humor and some bewilderment.
-- Freeman Dyson

On 8/22/2011 2:43 PM, Bill wrote:
Swingman wrote:


_ANY_ borg will have a display of books covering, in detail, every
conceivable issue you bring up.

You could buy a book, read, comprehend, and execute, and be done with
much quicker that typing a question and waiting on responses.


It's not all about being "done".

Sometimes I even create threads to promote discussion of what I perceive
are things of general interest (like hammers). Even on simple things, we
do not have agreement (use of EMT or FMT for instance?).

Sometimes I even take photos or create SketchUp models to help make my
posts more interesting (and it's good practice for me).

You were the one who suggested you don't want to read how to cut a
dove-tail joint everyday. I'm playing right into your hand, no?

No, you're not ... a dovetail joint is not regulated by a code, nor is
it generally dangerous in the wrong hands.

You miss the point ... a book on electrical installation, and
particularly the DIY versions for reasons of liability, will have, more
often than not, been written by an expert in the field, edited by same,
and published with a fairly good guarantee of overall correctness.

Here you are mostly getting the noise of self-styled experts who have no
more qualifications in the matter than you do.

Which would you rather build your future on?

That's not to say that you can't get good advice here (Doug Miller (who
knows more about the various NEC's than any electrician I've ever paid
for), Lew Hodges, Mike Marlowe, to name just a few), but just trying to
read one of the threads attempting to answer your myriad of question,
which always seem to beget more questions than answers, and it is
apparent to an outside observer with a bit of knowledge on the subject,
that the wheat gets lost in the chaff/noise.

You're obviously too close to the forest to see the trees, or even
recognize a tree (analogy only) ... that's why I said what I said, and
why Lee did also.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)