I have the results from the lighting configuration test some of us
discussed some 6 months ago. Maybe my procedure is more interesting to
see than the results.

I got a camera this week too (finally). My photo's have nothing on
Swingman's...but maybe that helps make them interesting? : )

At least I'm providing proof that I followed through with what I said I
planned to do. You can view some of the details on my web site if you
want. All in all, it was sort of fun--it was just too darn hot this
week to be completely fun!

http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/

Bill

"Bill" wrote ...
I have the results from the lighting configuration test some of us
discussed some 6 months ago. Maybe my procedure is more interesting to see
than the results.

Just a suggestion Bill. Next time mount the lights on the ceiling. It will
look much nicer. '-)

Lee Michaels wrote:


"Bill" wrote ...
I have the results from the lighting configuration test some of us
discussed some 6 months ago. Maybe my procedure is more interesting to
see than the results.

Just a suggestion Bill. Next time mount the lights on the ceiling. It
will look much nicer. '-)

It will be easier too. It became obvious they are designed to be hung
in basically one way--and not in a temporary-adhoc way. It took me
several hours to identify a decent way to hang them. One piece of 3/8"
nylon rope, with a knot at each end, held them up, so I used two because
all of the edges were sharp. 3 staples on top, for each piece of rope,
kept them from slipping. I'm glad "the experiment" is over!

I'm looking forward to doing the proper installation. I picked up a
conduit bender for $5 at an auction. It's almost time to start
practicing those 15 degree bends at the ends (yes, I know they sell
"adapters" which eliminate the need).

Bill

On Sun, 31 Jul 2011 09:07:06 -0400, Bill
wrote:

I have the results from the lighting configuration test some of us
discussed some 6 months ago. Maybe my procedure is more interesting to
see than the results.

I got a camera this week too (finally). My photo's have nothing on
Swingman's...but maybe that helps make them interesting? : )

At least I'm providing proof that I followed through with what I said I
planned to do. You can view some of the details on my web site if you
want. All in all, it was sort of fun--it was just too darn hot this
week to be completely fun!

http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/

You'll want to paint that entire room -before- testing lighting, Bill.
Eggshell paint is semi-reflective, but it doesn't glare like semi and
full gloss paints do. It will make quite a difference, guaranteed.

I still think 11 fixtures will be too bright for you. (Have your wife
take a picture once you get it done. I want to see if you're wearing
shades in there.

--
Win first, Fight later.

--martial principle of the Samurai

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 31 Jul 2011 09:07:06 -0400,
wrote:

I have the results from the lighting configuration test some of us
discussed some 6 months ago. Maybe my procedure is more interesting to
see than the results.

I got a camera this week too (finally). My photo's have nothing on
Swingman's...but maybe that helps make them interesting? : )

At least I'm providing proof that I followed through with what I said I
planned to do. You can view some of the details on my web site if you
want. All in all, it was sort of fun--it was just too darn hot this
week to be completely fun!

http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/

You'll want to paint that entire room -before- testing lighting, Bill.
Eggshell paint is semi-reflective, but it doesn't glare like semi and
full gloss paints do. It will make quite a difference, guaranteed.

I still think 11 fixtures will be too bright for you. (Have your wife
take a picture once you get it done. I want to see if you're wearing
shades in there.


Hi Larry,

I think I have enough lumens to go with the flat paint. One can always
repent. One can always remove a bulb too, or take down a fixture.
Admittedly, at this point the four fixtures near the garage door are
superfluous, but they make the lighting "uniform" (some y'all place
great stock in that).

The experiment revealed that 2 lights placed at 90" centers do not make
lighting suitable for "seeing the line" with a power tool. You'd prefer
lights at 43" centers, instead of 90", over your table saw. I suspect
I'll be using exactly 2 fixtures more than half of the time.

At this point I have the 11 (T8) light fixtures designed in the pattern
over the 20' x 24' space (lights running the long way:

++ __ __

__ __ __

++ __ __

__ __

the hole occuring where the attic is, and the fixtures marked ++ being
my primary ones over my bench, and they are on 1 switch and the other 9
are on another switch. The 3 fixtures above the "gap" above will be
right above the table saw. The EMT runs very nicely in the
configuration above without a single bend and there is some symmetry.
Larry, What would you change? Seriously. : )

BTW, having all of the lights on Would be too much for me if I was just
passing the time. If I was running any major power tool, it might be
good. I appreciate that this might be averaged out some.

Gosh, you'd think we hadn't done the experiment! : ) I do see your
point though so I'm still listening. You might recall that I do already
have two other lights from a separate circuit--and along with the ones
marked ** above, those 4 DO provide a Nice medium level lighting in the
most used area. So which fixtures are expendable? I marked in the
other existing lights (on the separate circuit) in the diagram below.


++ __ __

__ __ | __

++ __ | __

__ __

I apologize to anyone who thinks I'm sounding like a broken record.
I'm still willing to accept constructive criticism. At least now I know
what to expect from 2 or 3 of my bulbs, etc.

BTW, did you all get the word about Menards having 11% off everything
this week until August 7th (via rebate). I'm going to pick up most of my
wire today and some of the other things I need for this project. I only
bought 3 fixtures so far, but they came from Home Depot who hasn't
offered a sale on them yet--and I don't know exactly how many I'll need. ; )

Bill

Bill wrote:


BTW, did you all get the word about Menards having 11% off everything
this week until August 7th (via rebate). I'm going to pick up most of
my wire today and some of the other things I need for this project. I
only bought 3 fixtures so far, but they came from Home Depot who
hasn't offered a sale on them yet--and I don't know exactly how many I'll
need. ; )

If you happen to prefer the fixtures from HD for any reason, then simply go
into HD and ask for a price match.

--

-Mike-

On 8/3/2011 3:32 AM, Bill wrote:
Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 31 Jul 2011 09:07:06 -0400,
wrote:

I have the results from the lighting configuration test some of us
discussed some 6 months ago. Maybe my procedure is more interesting to
see than the results.

I got a camera this week too (finally). My photo's have nothing on
Swingman's...but maybe that helps make them interesting? : )

At least I'm providing proof that I followed through with what I said I
planned to do. You can view some of the details on my web site if you
want. All in all, it was sort of fun--it was just too darn hot this
week to be completely fun!

http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/

You'll want to paint that entire room -before- testing lighting, Bill.
Eggshell paint is semi-reflective, but it doesn't glare like semi and
full gloss paints do. It will make quite a difference, guaranteed.

I still think 11 fixtures will be too bright for you. (Have your wife
take a picture once you get it done. I want to see if you're wearing
shades in there.


Hi Larry,

I think I have enough lumens to go with the flat paint. One can always
repent. One can always remove a bulb too, or take down a fixture.
Admittedly, at this point the four fixtures near the garage door are
superfluous, but they make the lighting "uniform" (some y'all place
great stock in that).

The experiment revealed that 2 lights placed at 90" centers do not make
lighting suitable for "seeing the line" with a power tool. You'd prefer
lights at 43" centers, instead of 90", over your table saw. I suspect
I'll be using exactly 2 fixtures more than half of the time.

FWIW I don't think you can see the difference between using flat and
gloss white paint. I just lit up my new 3 car garage with lamps and
painted most of the garage gloss white.

BUT the gloss paint tends to be easier to wipe down with out stains
soaking in or hand prints being left behind. And dust tends to not be
quite as attracted to a gloss surface. Flat paints tend to be dirt magnets.

In article , lcb11211
@swbelldotnet says...

On 8/3/2011 3:32 AM, Bill wrote:
Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 31 Jul 2011 09:07:06 -0400,
wrote:

I have the results from the lighting configuration test some of us
discussed some 6 months ago. Maybe my procedure is more interesting to
see than the results.

I got a camera this week too (finally). My photo's have nothing on
Swingman's...but maybe that helps make them interesting? : )

At least I'm providing proof that I followed through with what I said I
planned to do. You can view some of the details on my web site if you
want. All in all, it was sort of fun--it was just too darn hot this
week to be completely fun!

http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/

You'll want to paint that entire room -before- testing lighting, Bill.
Eggshell paint is semi-reflective, but it doesn't glare like semi and
full gloss paints do. It will make quite a difference, guaranteed.

I still think 11 fixtures will be too bright for you. (Have your wife
take a picture once you get it done. I want to see if you're wearing
shades in there.


Hi Larry,

I think I have enough lumens to go with the flat paint. One can always
repent. One can always remove a bulb too, or take down a fixture.
Admittedly, at this point the four fixtures near the garage door are
superfluous, but they make the lighting "uniform" (some y'all place
great stock in that).

The experiment revealed that 2 lights placed at 90" centers do not make
lighting suitable for "seeing the line" with a power tool. You'd prefer
lights at 43" centers, instead of 90", over your table saw. I suspect
I'll be using exactly 2 fixtures more than half of the time.

FWIW I don't think you can see the difference between using flat and
gloss white paint. I just lit up my new 3 car garage with lamps and
painted most of the garage gloss white.

BUT the gloss paint tends to be easier to wipe down with out stains
soaking in or hand prints being left behind. And dust tends to not be
quite as attracted to a gloss surface. Flat paints tend to be dirt magnets.

Big downside on gloss is that it will show _every_ imperfection in the
finish work. If your finish _is_ perfect then it can be a way of
bragging. From a lighting viewpoint flat is better--the actual
reflectance is about the same but it gives a more even light. Gloss vs
flat doesn't always work the way you think.

And ease of cleaning is really more a function of the paint chemistry
than gloss or flat.

On Wed, 03 Aug 2011 04:32:22 -0400, Bill
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 31 Jul 2011 09:07:06 -0400,
wrote:

I have the results from the lighting configuration test some of us
discussed some 6 months ago. Maybe my procedure is more interesting to
see than the results.

I got a camera this week too (finally). My photo's have nothing on
Swingman's...but maybe that helps make them interesting? : )

At least I'm providing proof that I followed through with what I said I
planned to do. You can view some of the details on my web site if you
want. All in all, it was sort of fun--it was just too darn hot this
week to be completely fun!

http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/

You'll want to paint that entire room -before- testing lighting, Bill.
Eggshell paint is semi-reflective, but it doesn't glare like semi and
full gloss paints do. It will make quite a difference, guaranteed.

I still think 11 fixtures will be too bright for you. (Have your wife
take a picture once you get it done. I want to see if you're wearing
shades in there.


Hi Larry,

I think I have enough lumens to go with the flat paint. One can always
repent. One can always remove a bulb too, or take down a fixture.
Admittedly, at this point the four fixtures near the garage door are
superfluous, but they make the lighting "uniform" (some y'all place
great stock in that).

The experiment revealed that 2 lights placed at 90" centers do not make
lighting suitable for "seeing the line" with a power tool. You'd prefer
lights at 43" centers, instead of 90", over your table saw. I suspect
I'll be using exactly 2 fixtures more than half of the time.

I thought you had the two over the bench and the two originals on the
same switch. That could work.


At this point I have the 11 (T8) light fixtures designed in the pattern
over the 20' x 24' space (lights running the long way:

++ __ __

__ __ __

++ __ __

__ __

the hole occuring where the attic is, and the fixtures marked ++ being
my primary ones over my bench, and they are on 1 switch and the other 9
are on another switch.

From medium to blinding in the flip of a switch, eh? Right now, gray
sheetrock and flat mud are sucking in the light, not reflecting it.


The 3 fixtures above the "gap" above will be
right above the table saw. The EMT runs very nicely in the
configuration above without a single bend and there is some symmetry.
Larry, What would you change? Seriously. : )

I'd definitely use eggshell paint. Without it, you'll need those extra
fixtures. Well, I don't use the perimeter of my shop much. Some is
relegated to wood storage, the other to shelving, so I guess I can't
complain too much about too much light in your shop unless I'm feelin'
frisky.


BTW, having all of the lights on Would be too much for me if I was just
passing the time. If I was running any major power tool, it might be
good. I appreciate that this might be averaged out some.

I use comfortable overhead lighting plus high-intensity spot lighting
for critical areas. The overhead lighting is always on while I'm in
the shop, and the spots are on while I'm at the tools, such as the
mortiser/grinder/drillpress bench or the bandsaw. But that's only when
I've created a deer trail to actually get to the tool mentioned.
sigh One Christmas present to myself is clearing out all the crap
in the shop so I can get back to work. I'm _finally_ back in
de-clutter mode.


Gosh, you'd think we hadn't done the experiment! : ) I do see your
point though so I'm still listening. You might recall that I do already
have two other lights from a separate circuit--and along with the ones
marked ** above, those 4 DO provide a Nice medium level lighting in the

MEDIUM? Hmm, what does the doctor say about your cataracts? A buddy
of mine said he just got one of his done last week and is scheduled to
get the other eye done this week. He's 58, like me, and said it's nice
to see the world as white, instead of a milky yellow that he had been
seeing.


I apologize to anyone who thinks I'm sounding like a broken record.
I'm still willing to accept constructive criticism. At least now I know
what to expect from 2 or 3 of my bulbs, etc.

Well, not really. Since light is additive, when you add those other
fixtures, bouncing light fills in everywhere. I'm thinking that when
you turn it all on, you're going to be surprised at how bright the
collective light is.


BTW, did you all get the word about Menards having 11% off everything

We're stuck with Blowes and Homey's Despot on the Left Coast.


this week until August 7th (via rebate). I'm going to pick up most of my
wire today and some of the other things I need for this project. I only
bought 3 fixtures so far, but they came from Home Depot who hasn't
offered a sale on them yet--and I don't know exactly how many I'll need. ; )

If you're going to have 13 fixtures in there burning at the same time,
you'd best not forget extra pairs of shades and SPF-50 lotion for all
the guest suntanners you're likely to attract. /frisky

--
Win first, Fight later.

--martial principle of the Samurai

On Wed, 03 Aug 2011 08:10:20 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

FWIW I don't think you can see the difference between using flat and
gloss white paint. I just lit up my new 3 car garage with lamps and
painted most of the garage gloss white.

BUT the gloss paint tends to be easier to wipe down with out stains
soaking in or hand prints being left behind. And dust tends to not be
quite as attracted to a gloss surface. Flat paints tend to be dirt magnets.

Leon, if you have sunlight in your shop at any time, you'll see why
gloss is such a bummer. Glare galore! Eggshell is the happy medium.
It's _very_ washable, doesn't collect dust, and doesn't glare.

--
Win first, Fight later.

--martial principle of the Samurai

Leon wrote:
On 8/3/2011 3:32 AM, Bill wrote:
Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 31 Jul 2011 09:07:06 -0400,
wrote:

I have the results from the lighting configuration test some of us
discussed some 6 months ago. Maybe my procedure is more interesting to
see than the results.

I got a camera this week too (finally). My photo's have nothing on
Swingman's...but maybe that helps make them interesting? : )

At least I'm providing proof that I followed through with what I said I
planned to do. You can view some of the details on my web site if you
want. All in all, it was sort of fun--it was just too darn hot this
week to be completely fun!

http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/

You'll want to paint that entire room -before- testing lighting, Bill.
Eggshell paint is semi-reflective, but it doesn't glare like semi and
full gloss paints do. It will make quite a difference, guaranteed.

I still think 11 fixtures will be too bright for you. (Have your wife
take a picture once you get it done. I want to see if you're wearing
shades in there.


Hi Larry,

I think I have enough lumens to go with the flat paint. One can always
repent. One can always remove a bulb too, or take down a fixture.
Admittedly, at this point the four fixtures near the garage door are
superfluous, but they make the lighting "uniform" (some y'all place
great stock in that).

The experiment revealed that 2 lights placed at 90" centers do not make
lighting suitable for "seeing the line" with a power tool. You'd prefer
lights at 43" centers, instead of 90", over your table saw. I suspect
I'll be using exactly 2 fixtures more than half of the time.

FWIW I don't think you can see the difference between using flat and
gloss white paint. I just lit up my new 3 car garage with lamps and
painted most of the garage gloss white.

BUT the gloss paint tends to be easier to wipe down with out stains
soaking in or hand prints being left behind. And dust tends to not be
quite as attracted to a gloss surface. Flat paints tend to be dirt magnets.

THAT was what I learned on my trip to Mennards this morning. I didn't
realize how clueless I was about paint. I learned there are 4 kinds:

flat, eggshell, satin and semigloss.

I learned that these are progressively easier to wipe dirt off of, and
that, in the same order, they progressively reveal your drywall
deficiencies, if you happen to have any.

Based on our conversation, I thought satin was a good choice. What are
your opinions?

Bill

Larry Jaques wrote:

I'd definitely use eggshell paint.

Paint newbe: Why is that?
What do you think of "satin"? Supposed to be easier to keep clean?

Without it, you'll need those extra
fixtures. Well, I don't use the perimeter of my shop much. Some is
relegated to wood storage, the other to shelving, so I guess I can't
complain too much about too much light in your shop unless I'm feelin'
frisky.

My light on the bottom left (of my diagram) is just so it's not dark
right where you walk in, because it's adjacent to the attic where there
can't be a light. You are correct (below) when you point out that I'm
not sure what will happen when the lights are combined and the light
bounces off of the walls.



BTW, having all of the lights on Would be too much for me if I was just
passing the time. If I was running any major power tool, it might be
good. I appreciate that this might be averaged out some.

I use comfortable overhead lighting plus high-intensity spot lighting
for critical areas. The overhead lighting is always on while I'm in
the shop, and the spots are on while I'm at the tools, such as the
mortiser/grinder/drillpress bench or the bandsaw. But that's only when
I've created a deer trail to actually get to the tool mentioned.
sigh One Christmas present to myself is clearing out all the crap
in the shop so I can get back to work. I'm _finally_ back in
de-clutter mode.

One of the most time consuming parts of my shop project is moving stuff
around (too). Frustrating when there aren't alot of good spots to move
the stuff around to. Presently all of our "stuff" in the garage is in
the middle--which makes it easy to work on walls, but harder to work on
lights... Sometime's I block off the deer trails with chairs and such
(hint, hint), but my wife walks through anyway!

On 8/3/2011 11:03 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 03 Aug 2011 08:10:20 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

FWIW I don't think you can see the difference between using flat and
gloss white paint. I just lit up my new 3 car garage with lamps and
painted most of the garage gloss white.

BUT the gloss paint tends to be easier to wipe down with out stains
soaking in or hand prints being left behind. And dust tends to not be
quite as attracted to a gloss surface. Flat paints tend to be dirt magnets.

Leon, if you have sunlight in your shop at any time, you'll see why
gloss is such a bummer. Glare galore! Eggshell is the happy medium.
It's _very_ washable, doesn't collect dust, and doesn't glare.


SORRY! Let me correct that to, I have "Satin" that gets sun light and
no glare but does have more reflection than an egg shell or flat.

On 8/3/2011 11:10 AM, Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:
On 8/3/2011 3:32 AM, Bill wrote:
Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 31 Jul 2011 09:07:06 -0400,
wrote:

I have the results from the lighting configuration test some of us
discussed some 6 months ago. Maybe my procedure is more interesting to
see than the results.

I got a camera this week too (finally). My photo's have nothing on
Swingman's...but maybe that helps make them interesting? : )

At least I'm providing proof that I followed through with what I
said I
planned to do. You can view some of the details on my web site if you
want. All in all, it was sort of fun--it was just too darn hot this
week to be completely fun!

http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/

You'll want to paint that entire room -before- testing lighting, Bill.
Eggshell paint is semi-reflective, but it doesn't glare like semi and
full gloss paints do. It will make quite a difference, guaranteed.

I still think 11 fixtures will be too bright for you. (Have your wife
take a picture once you get it done. I want to see if you're wearing
shades in there.


Hi Larry,

I think I have enough lumens to go with the flat paint. One can always
repent. One can always remove a bulb too, or take down a fixture.
Admittedly, at this point the four fixtures near the garage door are
superfluous, but they make the lighting "uniform" (some y'all place
great stock in that).

The experiment revealed that 2 lights placed at 90" centers do not make
lighting suitable for "seeing the line" with a power tool. You'd prefer
lights at 43" centers, instead of 90", over your table saw. I suspect
I'll be using exactly 2 fixtures more than half of the time.

FWIW I don't think you can see the difference between using flat and
gloss white paint. I just lit up my new 3 car garage with lamps and
painted most of the garage gloss white.

BUT the gloss paint tends to be easier to wipe down with out stains
soaking in or hand prints being left behind. And dust tends to not be
quite as attracted to a gloss surface. Flat paints tend to be dirt
magnets.

THAT was what I learned on my trip to Mennards this morning. I didn't
realize how clueless I was about paint. I learned there are 4 kinds:

flat, eggshell, satin and semigloss.

I learned that these are progressively easier to wipe dirt off of, and
that, in the same order, they progressively reveal your drywall
deficiencies, if you happen to have any.

Based on our conversation, I thought satin was a good choice. What are
your opinions?

Bill

Actually Bill I did use Satin, I typically think in terms of flat and
gloss. I for got about all the in betweens.

Satin is what I have, it has just a touch of shine to it and I am happy
with it.

One other thing to keep in mind. You wan to use a PREMIUM paint,
especially if you are using a latex paint. Not all latex paints are
created equally and that goes for premium brands also. As Swingman
pointed out to me a few days ago the cheaper quality latex paints remain
sticky. The better latex paints dry harder. So if you lean any boards
against the wall you don't want them to stick. DAMHIKT.

Leon wrote:
On 8/3/2011 11:03 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 03 Aug 2011 08:10:20 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

FWIW I don't think you can see the difference between using flat and
gloss white paint. I just lit up my new 3 car garage with lamps and
painted most of the garage gloss white.

BUT the gloss paint tends to be easier to wipe down with out stains
soaking in or hand prints being left behind. And dust tends to not be
quite as attracted to a gloss surface. Flat paints tend to be dirt
magnets.

Leon, if you have sunlight in your shop at any time, you'll see why
gloss is such a bummer. Glare galore! Eggshell is the happy medium.
It's _very_ washable, doesn't collect dust, and doesn't glare.


SORRY! Let me correct that to, I have "Satin" that gets sun light and no
glare but does have more reflection than an egg shell or flat.

As someone who is choosing, I'm curious whether you would you chose
Satin again?

Bill

Leon wrote:
On 8/3/2011 11:10 AM, Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:
On 8/3/2011 3:32 AM, Bill wrote:
Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 31 Jul 2011 09:07:06 -0400,
wrote:

I have the results from the lighting configuration test some of us
discussed some 6 months ago. Maybe my procedure is more
interesting to
see than the results.

I got a camera this week too (finally). My photo's have nothing on
Swingman's...but maybe that helps make them interesting? : )

At least I'm providing proof that I followed through with what I
said I
planned to do. You can view some of the details on my web site if you
want. All in all, it was sort of fun--it was just too darn hot this
week to be completely fun!

http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/

You'll want to paint that entire room -before- testing lighting, Bill.
Eggshell paint is semi-reflective, but it doesn't glare like semi and
full gloss paints do. It will make quite a difference, guaranteed.

I still think 11 fixtures will be too bright for you. (Have your wife
take a picture once you get it done. I want to see if you're wearing
shades in there.


Hi Larry,

I think I have enough lumens to go with the flat paint. One can always
repent. One can always remove a bulb too, or take down a fixture.
Admittedly, at this point the four fixtures near the garage door are
superfluous, but they make the lighting "uniform" (some y'all place
great stock in that).

The experiment revealed that 2 lights placed at 90" centers do not make
lighting suitable for "seeing the line" with a power tool. You'd prefer
lights at 43" centers, instead of 90", over your table saw. I suspect
I'll be using exactly 2 fixtures more than half of the time.

FWIW I don't think you can see the difference between using flat and
gloss white paint. I just lit up my new 3 car garage with lamps and
painted most of the garage gloss white.

BUT the gloss paint tends to be easier to wipe down with out stains
soaking in or hand prints being left behind. And dust tends to not be
quite as attracted to a gloss surface. Flat paints tend to be dirt
magnets.

THAT was what I learned on my trip to Mennards this morning. I didn't
realize how clueless I was about paint. I learned there are 4 kinds:

flat, eggshell, satin and semigloss.

I learned that these are progressively easier to wipe dirt off of, and
that, in the same order, they progressively reveal your drywall
deficiencies, if you happen to have any.

Based on our conversation, I thought satin was a good choice. What are
your opinions?

Bill

Actually Bill I did use Satin, I typically think in terms of flat and
gloss. I for got about all the in betweens.

Satin is what I have, it has just a touch of shine to it and I am happy
with it.

One other thing to keep in mind. You wan to use a PREMIUM paint,
especially if you are using a latex paint. Not all latex paints are
created equally and that goes for premium brands also. As Swingman
pointed out to me a few days ago the cheaper quality latex paints remain
sticky. The better latex paints dry harder. So if you lean any boards
against the wall you don't want them to stick. DAMHIKT.


The brand of paint Mennards was leaning me towards was "Dutch Boy".
How does that rate? It was regularly $25/gal on sale for $20/gal.
I just bought some primer today.

Bill

BTW, You are quite correct: If I lean boards against the wall, I don't
want them to stick!

On 8/3/2011 12:01 PM, Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:
On 8/3/2011 11:03 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 03 Aug 2011 08:10:20 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

FWIW I don't think you can see the difference between using flat and
gloss white paint. I just lit up my new 3 car garage with lamps and
painted most of the garage gloss white.

BUT the gloss paint tends to be easier to wipe down with out stains
soaking in or hand prints being left behind. And dust tends to not be
quite as attracted to a gloss surface. Flat paints tend to be dirt
magnets.

Leon, if you have sunlight in your shop at any time, you'll see why
gloss is such a bummer. Glare galore! Eggshell is the happy medium.
It's _very_ washable, doesn't collect dust, and doesn't glare.


SORRY! Let me correct that to, I have "Satin" that gets sun light and no
glare but does have more reflection than an egg shell or flat.

As someone who is choosing, I'm curious whether you would you chose
Satin again?

Bill


Absolutely, I am very happy with the sheen and color, and that it is
still clean in a 7 month old shop that has been creating lots of saw
dust. Actually the color by a normal persons standards is white, the
color chip says Swedish Coffee?

On 8/3/2011 12:09 PM, Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:
On 8/3/2011 11:10 AM, Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:
On 8/3/2011 3:32 AM, Bill wrote:
Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 31 Jul 2011 09:07:06 -0400,
wrote:

I have the results from the lighting configuration test some of us
discussed some 6 months ago. Maybe my procedure is more
interesting to
see than the results.

I got a camera this week too (finally). My photo's have nothing on
Swingman's...but maybe that helps make them interesting? : )

At least I'm providing proof that I followed through with what I
said I
planned to do. You can view some of the details on my web site if
you
want. All in all, it was sort of fun--it was just too darn hot this
week to be completely fun!

http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/

You'll want to paint that entire room -before- testing lighting,
Bill.
Eggshell paint is semi-reflective, but it doesn't glare like semi and
full gloss paints do. It will make quite a difference, guaranteed.

I still think 11 fixtures will be too bright for you. (Have your wife
take a picture once you get it done. I want to see if you're wearing
shades in there.


Hi Larry,

I think I have enough lumens to go with the flat paint. One can always
repent. One can always remove a bulb too, or take down a fixture.
Admittedly, at this point the four fixtures near the garage door are
superfluous, but they make the lighting "uniform" (some y'all place
great stock in that).

The experiment revealed that 2 lights placed at 90" centers do not
make
lighting suitable for "seeing the line" with a power tool. You'd
prefer
lights at 43" centers, instead of 90", over your table saw. I suspect
I'll be using exactly 2 fixtures more than half of the time.

FWIW I don't think you can see the difference between using flat and
gloss white paint. I just lit up my new 3 car garage with lamps and
painted most of the garage gloss white.

BUT the gloss paint tends to be easier to wipe down with out stains
soaking in or hand prints being left behind. And dust tends to not be
quite as attracted to a gloss surface. Flat paints tend to be dirt
magnets.

THAT was what I learned on my trip to Mennards this morning. I didn't
realize how clueless I was about paint. I learned there are 4 kinds:

flat, eggshell, satin and semigloss.

I learned that these are progressively easier to wipe dirt off of, and
that, in the same order, they progressively reveal your drywall
deficiencies, if you happen to have any.

Based on our conversation, I thought satin was a good choice. What are
your opinions?

Bill

Actually Bill I did use Satin, I typically think in terms of flat and
gloss. I for got about all the in betweens.

Satin is what I have, it has just a touch of shine to it and I am happy
with it.

One other thing to keep in mind. You wan to use a PREMIUM paint,
especially if you are using a latex paint. Not all latex paints are
created equally and that goes for premium brands also. As Swingman
pointed out to me a few days ago the cheaper quality latex paints remain
sticky. The better latex paints dry harder. So if you lean any boards
against the wall you don't want them to stick. DAMHIKT.


The brand of paint Mennards was leaning me towards was "Dutch Boy".
How does that rate? It was regularly $25/gal on sale for $20/gal.
I just bought some primer today.

Bill

BTW, You are quite correct: If I lean boards against the wall, I don't
want them to stick!

I have never used Dutch Boy however let me restate, Dutch Boy, Glidden,
Sherwin Williams, Prat & Lambert are all top brand paints. Don't buy
their cheapest paint. Regardless of whet "top" brand you buy, you want
their best paint. Keep in mind that while you may think that you may
never need the "higher" quality paint for your shop or garage the higher
quality paints tend to go on the wall much better and with much less
effort from you aside from the performance you get out of the paint
years down the road.

Price never indicates the quality for sure but I once painted a kitchen
for a customer, including the inside of her pantry. I had installed new
cabinet door and drawer fronts and drawers and painted the insides of
the cabinets too. I used "1" gallon of Pratt & Lambert Alkaid based oil
enamel and coverage was great. IIRC 10 years ago I paid about $50 per
gallon, but it only took one gallon and one coat.

Bill wrote in :

*snip*

BTW, did you all get the word about Menards having 11% off everything
this week until August 7th (via rebate). I'm going to pick up most of
my wire today and some of the other things I need for this project. I
only bought 3 fixtures so far, but they came from Home Depot who
hasn't offered a sale on them yet--and I don't know exactly how many
I'll need. ; )

Bill

Thanks for the heads up. Time to buy my dust collection piping.

Puckdropper

On Wed, 03 Aug 2011 11:53:07 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 8/3/2011 11:03 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 03 Aug 2011 08:10:20 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

FWIW I don't think you can see the difference between using flat and
gloss white paint. I just lit up my new 3 car garage with lamps and
painted most of the garage gloss white.

BUT the gloss paint tends to be easier to wipe down with out stains
soaking in or hand prints being left behind. And dust tends to not be
quite as attracted to a gloss surface. Flat paints tend to be dirt magnets.

Leon, if you have sunlight in your shop at any time, you'll see why
gloss is such a bummer. Glare galore! Eggshell is the happy medium.
It's _very_ washable, doesn't collect dust, and doesn't glare.


SORRY! Let me correct that to, I have "Satin" that gets sun light and
no glare but does have more reflection than an egg shell or flat.

Bueno, bwana. Most eggshells and satins have nearly identical sheen,
but a few companies make them different.

--
In the depth of winter, I finally learned
that within me there lay an invincible summer.
-- Albert Camus

On Wed, 03 Aug 2011 14:39:18 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 8/3/2011 12:01 PM, Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:
On 8/3/2011 11:03 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 03 Aug 2011 08:10:20 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

FWIW I don't think you can see the difference between using flat and
gloss white paint. I just lit up my new 3 car garage with lamps and
painted most of the garage gloss white.

BUT the gloss paint tends to be easier to wipe down with out stains
soaking in or hand prints being left behind. And dust tends to not be
quite as attracted to a gloss surface. Flat paints tend to be dirt
magnets.

Leon, if you have sunlight in your shop at any time, you'll see why
gloss is such a bummer. Glare galore! Eggshell is the happy medium.
It's _very_ washable, doesn't collect dust, and doesn't glare.


SORRY! Let me correct that to, I have "Satin" that gets sun light and no
glare but does have more reflection than an egg shell or flat.

As someone who is choosing, I'm curious whether you would you chose
Satin again?

Bill


Absolutely, I am very happy with the sheen and color, and that it is
still clean in a 7 month old shop that has been creating lots of saw
dust. Actually the color by a normal persons standards is white, the
color chip says Swedish Coffee?

Wait just a darned minute here. You're saying that you, a Festool
user, have a shop which is full of sawdust? WTF,O?

Does Not Compute.

--
In the depth of winter, I finally learned
that within me there lay an invincible summer.
-- Albert Camus

On Wed, 03 Aug 2011 12:10:19 -0400, Bill
wrote:

Leon wrote:

BUT the gloss paint tends to be easier to wipe down with out stains
soaking in or hand prints being left behind. And dust tends to not be
quite as attracted to a gloss surface. Flat paints tend to be dirt magnets.

THAT was what I learned on my trip to Mennards this morning. I didn't
realize how clueless I was about paint. I learned there are 4 kinds:

flat, eggshell, satin and semigloss.

I learned that these are progressively easier to wipe dirt off of, and
that, in the same order, they progressively reveal your drywall
deficiencies, if you happen to have any.

Based on our conversation, I thought satin was a good choice. What are
your opinions?

Yes. Now go do it. No more analysis. giggle

--
In the depth of winter, I finally learned
that within me there lay an invincible summer.
-- Albert Camus

On 8/4/2011 12:29 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 03 Aug 2011 14:39:18 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 8/3/2011 12:01 PM, Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:
On 8/3/2011 11:03 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 03 Aug 2011 08:10:20 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

FWIW I don't think you can see the difference between using flat and
gloss white paint. I just lit up my new 3 car garage with lamps and
painted most of the garage gloss white.

BUT the gloss paint tends to be easier to wipe down with out stains
soaking in or hand prints being left behind. And dust tends to not be
quite as attracted to a gloss surface. Flat paints tend to be dirt
magnets.

Leon, if you have sunlight in your shop at any time, you'll see why
gloss is such a bummer. Glare galore! Eggshell is the happy medium.
It's _very_ washable, doesn't collect dust, and doesn't glare.


SORRY! Let me correct that to, I have "Satin" that gets sun light and no
glare but does have more reflection than an egg shell or flat.

As someone who is choosing, I'm curious whether you would you chose
Satin again?

Bill


Absolutely, I am very happy with the sheen and color, and that it is
still clean in a 7 month old shop that has been creating lots of saw
dust. Actually the color by a normal persons standards is white, the
color chip says Swedish Coffee?

Wait just a darned minute here. You're saying that you, a Festool
user, have a shop which is full of sawdust? WTF,O?

Does Not Compute.

Your scanner must have a Yuppie interface, painted wall still clean.

On Wed, 03 Aug 2011 14:49:15 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 8/3/2011 12:09 PM, Bill wrote:

The brand of paint Mennards was leaning me towards was "Dutch Boy".
How does that rate? It was regularly $25/gal on sale for $20/gal.
I just bought some primer today.

Bill

I have never used Dutch Boy however let me restate, Dutch Boy, Glidden,
Sherwin Williams, Prat & Lambert are all top brand paints. Don't buy
their cheapest paint. Regardless of whet "top" brand you buy, you want
their best paint. Keep in mind that while you may think that you may
never need the "higher" quality paint for your shop or garage the higher
quality paints tend to go on the wall much better and with much less
effort from you aside from the performance you get out of the paint
years down the road.

Truth! But it's a truth I've yet to convince customers on. (I'm just
glad I don't do much painting.)


Price never indicates the quality for sure but I once painted a kitchen
for a customer, including the inside of her pantry. I had installed new
cabinet door and drawer fronts and drawers and painted the insides of
the cabinets too. I used "1" gallon of Pratt & Lambert Alkaid based oil
enamel and coverage was great. IIRC 10 years ago I paid about $50 per
gallon, but it only took one gallon and one coat.

One-coat alkyd? Amazing. What color? Over a white base, or did you
tint the primer? I've gotta start doing that.

Our local home improvement store is now selling P&L. I'll have to give
it a try next time. One client is sold on Miller AcryLite exterior
house paint, and I now love it after using some on his rental unit.

Back to Bill: PAINT THE SHOP PURE WHITE. NO TINTS, NO COLOR. OK?

--
In the depth of winter, I finally learned
that within me there lay an invincible summer.
-- Albert Camus

On Wed, 03 Aug 2011 12:47:18 -0400, Bill
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:

I'd definitely use eggshell paint.

Paint newbe: Why is that?
What do you think of "satin"? Supposed to be easier to keep clean?

It's within 3% of the same gloss, so either works. Both are very
wipable and dust-free.


My light on the bottom left (of my diagram) is just so it's not dark
right where you walk in, because it's adjacent to the attic where there
can't be a light. You are correct (below) when you point out that I'm
not sure what will happen when the lights are combined and the light
bounces off of the walls.

Pure white walls, got it?


BTW, having all of the lights on Would be too much for me if I was just
passing the time. If I was running any major power tool, it might be
good. I appreciate that this might be averaged out some.

I use comfortable overhead lighting plus high-intensity spot lighting
for critical areas. The overhead lighting is always on while I'm in
the shop, and the spots are on while I'm at the tools, such as the
mortiser/grinder/drillpress bench or the bandsaw. But that's only when
I've created a deer trail to actually get to the tool mentioned.
sigh One Christmas present to myself is clearing out all the crap
in the shop so I can get back to work. I'm _finally_ back in
de-clutter mode.

One of the most time consuming parts of my shop project is moving stuff
around (too). Frustrating when there aren't alot of good spots to move
the stuff around to. Presently all of our "stuff" in the garage is in

Whoa! That's now your shop. It's time to put your foot down and get
all that crap which isn't woodwork-related outta there!


the middle--which makes it easy to work on walls, but harder to work on
lights... Sometime's I block off the deer trails with chairs and such
(hint, hint), but my wife walks through anyway!

Then it was a dear trail instead. groan

--
In the depth of winter, I finally learned
that within me there lay an invincible summer.
-- Albert Camus

"Bill" wrote in message ...

I learned there are 4 kinds: flat, eggshell, satin and semigloss.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not quite accurate, with the 4 kinds.

Eggshell is a color of paint; just an off white. It can be purchased in
flat semigloss and gloss.

In wall and trim types of paint, flat is usually used for walls, with
semigloss often chosen for the same room to be used on the trim. Flat does
not reflect a point light source in a way that the point light can still be
seen as a point. (like a light bulb)

Semigloss will reflect a point light source some, but will diffuse it some.

Gloss has a shine that will allow a person to see the point light reflected,
almost like a mirror or piece of glass.

Satin is a term usually used with clear finishes, and compares to flat.
Semigloss is next, then gloss; all when talking about wood finishes.

I hope this is all what others remember, but I am not looking at product on
the shelf as I write this, so I might be off some. Eggshell is definitely
just an off shade of white, and is not a descriptor of the shine of the
finish, at any rate.

-- Jim in NC

Leon wrote:
On 8/3/2011 12:09 PM, Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:
On 8/3/2011 11:10 AM, Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:
On 8/3/2011 3:32 AM, Bill wrote:
Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 31 Jul 2011 09:07:06 -0400,
wrote:

I have the results from the lighting configuration test some of us
discussed some 6 months ago. Maybe my procedure is more
interesting to
see than the results.

I got a camera this week too (finally). My photo's have nothing on
Swingman's...but maybe that helps make them interesting? : )

At least I'm providing proof that I followed through with what I
said I
planned to do. You can view some of the details on my web site if
you
want. All in all, it was sort of fun--it was just too darn hot this
week to be completely fun!

http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/

You'll want to paint that entire room -before- testing lighting,
Bill.
Eggshell paint is semi-reflective, but it doesn't glare like semi
and
full gloss paints do. It will make quite a difference, guaranteed.

I still think 11 fixtures will be too bright for you. (Have your
wife
take a picture once you get it done. I want to see if you're wearing
shades in there.


Hi Larry,

I think I have enough lumens to go with the flat paint. One can
always
repent. One can always remove a bulb too, or take down a fixture.
Admittedly, at this point the four fixtures near the garage door are
superfluous, but they make the lighting "uniform" (some y'all place
great stock in that).

The experiment revealed that 2 lights placed at 90" centers do not
make
lighting suitable for "seeing the line" with a power tool. You'd
prefer
lights at 43" centers, instead of 90", over your table saw. I suspect
I'll be using exactly 2 fixtures more than half of the time.

FWIW I don't think you can see the difference between using flat and
gloss white paint. I just lit up my new 3 car garage with lamps and
painted most of the garage gloss white.

BUT the gloss paint tends to be easier to wipe down with out stains
soaking in or hand prints being left behind. And dust tends to not be
quite as attracted to a gloss surface. Flat paints tend to be dirt
magnets.

THAT was what I learned on my trip to Mennards this morning. I didn't
realize how clueless I was about paint. I learned there are 4 kinds:

flat, eggshell, satin and semigloss.

I learned that these are progressively easier to wipe dirt off of, and
that, in the same order, they progressively reveal your drywall
deficiencies, if you happen to have any.

Based on our conversation, I thought satin was a good choice. What are
your opinions?

Bill

Actually Bill I did use Satin, I typically think in terms of flat and
gloss. I for got about all the in betweens.

Satin is what I have, it has just a touch of shine to it and I am happy
with it.

One other thing to keep in mind. You wan to use a PREMIUM paint,
especially if you are using a latex paint. Not all latex paints are
created equally and that goes for premium brands also. As Swingman
pointed out to me a few days ago the cheaper quality latex paints remain
sticky. The better latex paints dry harder. So if you lean any boards
against the wall you don't want them to stick. DAMHIKT.


The brand of paint Mennards was leaning me towards was "Dutch Boy".
How does that rate? It was regularly $25/gal on sale for $20/gal.
I just bought some primer today.

Bill

BTW, You are quite correct: If I lean boards against the wall, I don't
want them to stick!

I have never used Dutch Boy however let me restate, Dutch Boy, Glidden,
Sherwin Williams, Prat & Lambert are all top brand paints. Don't buy
their cheapest paint. Regardless of whet "top" brand you buy, you want
their best paint. Keep in mind that while you may think that you may
never need the "higher" quality paint for your shop or garage the higher
quality paints tend to go on the wall much better and with much less
effort from you aside from the performance you get out of the paint
years down the road.

Price never indicates the quality for sure but I once painted a kitchen
for a customer, including the inside of her pantry. I had installed new
cabinet door and drawer fronts and drawers and painted the insides of
the cabinets too. I used "1" gallon of Pratt & Lambert Alkaid based oil
enamel and coverage was great. IIRC 10 years ago I paid about $50 per
gallon, but it only took one gallon and one coat.


Thank you for the lesson. I don't think I've ever applied "good" paint.

I did a lot of painting during 2 summers while in school, and I recall
paying $6 to 8 a gallon at Sears, depending on whether it was on sale or
not. I always used two coats, and it required 2 coats. I charged about
$5/hr, and only for the time I was on-site, and had plenty of work.
Minimum wage was about $3.35 so it seemed fair enough at the time to a
"poor college student". I enjoyed trying to "master the skill", working
in a business-like manner, and got to listen to the radio all day. I
didn't advertise myself as a pro, but I think I gave people more than
their moneys-worth. Word of mouth was on my side. Not bad memories.

Maybe there are unemployed people in this country who could find
painting work if they applied themselves?

Bill

Larry Jaques wrote:

Back to Bill: PAINT THE SHOP PURE WHITE. NO TINTS, NO COLOR. OK?

Paint the ceiling satin too, huh?

I DO think I'll go with WHITE as you so subtly suggested. Although
I have brought any paint strips home. I suppose that makes the price of
paint really go up, huh?

White should make a good canvas for my mural...

Bill

Larry Jaques wrote:

My light on the bottom left (of my diagram) is just so it's not dark
right where you walk in, because it's adjacent to the attic where there
can't be a light. You are correct (below) when you point out that I'm
not sure what will happen when the lights are combined and the light
bounces off of the walls.

Pure white walls, got it?


LOL!

There are so many distractions at Menards.. By the time I get to where
they keep the paint in the far corner, I hope I still remember. Maybe I
should write it on my palm? I don't want people to think I'm racist
though.. There, "pure white poles"--OOPS!

Bill wrote in
:

Larry Jaques wrote:

Back to Bill: PAINT THE SHOP PURE WHITE. NO TINTS, NO COLOR. OK?

Paint the ceiling satin too, huh?

I DO think I'll go with WHITE as you so subtly suggested. Although
I have brought any paint strips home. I suppose that makes the price
of paint really go up, huh?

White should make a good canvas for my mural...

Bill


Oh don't do that. You'll feel bad about covering it up with tools and
wood. (You'll still do it anyway, having a working shop is more
important than art.)

Mind if I e-mail you a picture? It's just a snapshot and not worth
putting up on Usenet or the website.

Puckdropper

On 8/4/2011 12:39 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 03 Aug 2011 14:49:15 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 8/3/2011 12:09 PM, Bill wrote:

The brand of paint Mennards was leaning me towards was "Dutch Boy".
How does that rate? It was regularly $25/gal on sale for $20/gal.
I just bought some primer today.

Bill

I have never used Dutch Boy however let me restate, Dutch Boy, Glidden,
Sherwin Williams, Prat& Lambert are all top brand paints. Don't buy
their cheapest paint. Regardless of whet "top" brand you buy, you want
their best paint. Keep in mind that while you may think that you may
never need the "higher" quality paint for your shop or garage the higher
quality paints tend to go on the wall much better and with much less
effort from you aside from the performance you get out of the paint
years down the road.

Truth! But it's a truth I've yet to convince customers on. (I'm just
glad I don't do much painting.)

To tell you the trugh the better the paint the less of a chore it is in
all aspects of the paint job. Better coverage so fewer paint strokes,
better coverage so single coat applications, clean up is actually better
and faster especially with oil based paints however that may have a lot
to do with knowing the tricks of putting a bit of mineral spirits on the
brush before dipping it in the paint and using the same to clean the
brush. We only used thinner to thin the paint. And with the better
paints, less mess from dripping or paint runs.






Price never indicates the quality for sure but I once painted a kitchen
for a customer, including the inside of her pantry. I had installed new
cabinet door and drawer fronts and drawers and painted the insides of
the cabinets too. I used "1" gallon of Pratt& Lambert Alkaid based oil
enamel and coverage was great. IIRC 10 years ago I paid about $50 per
gallon, but it only took one gallon and one coat.

One-coat alkyd? Amazing. What color? Over a white base, or did you
tint the primer? I've gotta start doing that.

Actually it was white over a light blue. No primer, at the time it was
stated that no primer was needed and to expect single coat coverage.
However we did wipe every thing down with a "liquid sand paper" prior to
painting.

Having said that, I used Sears Best Easy Living latex flat paint for the
walls in our last house 7-8 years ago years ago. My son's room had
black shoe marks on the wall under his desk where he did home work.
Lots of "dark" black marks. The paint covered those marks immediately
upon rolling the paint on and never to appear again. AFAIK Sherwin
Williams still makes Sears paint. I did use Sherwin Williams Alkyd oil
based enamel for all the doors and trim. One gallon did the whole house
and again I bought their best paint.



Our local home improvement store is now selling P&L. I'll have to give
it a try next time. One client is sold on Miller AcryLite exterior
house paint, and I now love it after using some on his rental unit.

I did some repainting of the exterior on the last house, always used
Sears Best Life Time Guarantee Polyurethane exterior paint. That works
real well too. But I noticed that at the time that they were stocking
P&L paint. Questioning the paint guy at Sears he indicated that P&L had
been bought out by Sherwin Williams. Not sure I would swear to that
being factual or not myself but no reason to not believe it. It used to
be that you could only find P&L at the stand alone "paint stores". I
have only used P&L paint one time as I need to be sure that I got good
coverage. I would suggest approaching with a bit of caution now that
Sears and HD stock it, especially if it is being sold at a competitive
price. It may not be the same as what it used to be quality wise and or
there may now be different grades. Do a little research. When I bought
I don't recall there being any choices as to what quality to choose from.


Back to Bill: PAINT THE SHOP PURE WHITE. NO TINTS, NO COLOR. OK?

--
In the depth of winter, I finally learned
that within me there lay an invincible summer.
-- Albert Camus

On 8/4/2011 2:33 AM, Bill wrote:
Larry Jaques wrote:

Back to Bill: PAINT THE SHOP PURE WHITE. NO TINTS, NO COLOR. OK?

Paint the ceiling satin too, huh?

I DO think I'll go with WHITE as you so subtly suggested. Although
I have brought any paint strips home. I suppose that makes the price of
paint really go up, huh?

White should make a good canvas for my mural...

Bill

Now that is what I left the same color, a light flat beige color. I did
not want to go to that much trouble and most the light hitting the
ceiling is blocked by the lamp base. All other light hitting the
ceiling has already been reflected from some where else. I still have
what my wife describes as the tit up landing zone.

On 8/4/2011 1:06 AM, Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:
On 8/3/2011 12:09 PM, Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:
On 8/3/2011 11:10 AM, Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:
On 8/3/2011 3:32 AM, Bill wrote:
Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 31 Jul 2011 09:07:06 -0400,
wrote:

I have the results from the lighting configuration test some of us
discussed some 6 months ago. Maybe my procedure is more
interesting to
see than the results.

I got a camera this week too (finally). My photo's have nothing on
Swingman's...but maybe that helps make them interesting? : )

At least I'm providing proof that I followed through with what I
said I
planned to do. You can view some of the details on my web site if
you
want. All in all, it was sort of fun--it was just too darn hot
this
week to be completely fun!

http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/

You'll want to paint that entire room -before- testing lighting,
Bill.
Eggshell paint is semi-reflective, but it doesn't glare like semi
and
full gloss paints do. It will make quite a difference, guaranteed.

I still think 11 fixtures will be too bright for you. (Have your
wife
take a picture once you get it done. I want to see if you're
wearing
shades in there.


Hi Larry,

I think I have enough lumens to go with the flat paint. One can
always
repent. One can always remove a bulb too, or take down a fixture.
Admittedly, at this point the four fixtures near the garage door are
superfluous, but they make the lighting "uniform" (some y'all place
great stock in that).

The experiment revealed that 2 lights placed at 90" centers do not
make
lighting suitable for "seeing the line" with a power tool. You'd
prefer
lights at 43" centers, instead of 90", over your table saw. I
suspect
I'll be using exactly 2 fixtures more than half of the time.

FWIW I don't think you can see the difference between using flat and
gloss white paint. I just lit up my new 3 car garage with lamps and
painted most of the garage gloss white.

BUT the gloss paint tends to be easier to wipe down with out stains
soaking in or hand prints being left behind. And dust tends to not be
quite as attracted to a gloss surface. Flat paints tend to be dirt
magnets.

THAT was what I learned on my trip to Mennards this morning. I didn't
realize how clueless I was about paint. I learned there are 4 kinds:

flat, eggshell, satin and semigloss.

I learned that these are progressively easier to wipe dirt off of, and
that, in the same order, they progressively reveal your drywall
deficiencies, if you happen to have any.

Based on our conversation, I thought satin was a good choice. What are
your opinions?

Bill

Actually Bill I did use Satin, I typically think in terms of flat and
gloss. I for got about all the in betweens.

Satin is what I have, it has just a touch of shine to it and I am happy
with it.

One other thing to keep in mind. You wan to use a PREMIUM paint,
especially if you are using a latex paint. Not all latex paints are
created equally and that goes for premium brands also. As Swingman
pointed out to me a few days ago the cheaper quality latex paints
remain
sticky. The better latex paints dry harder. So if you lean any boards
against the wall you don't want them to stick. DAMHIKT.


The brand of paint Mennards was leaning me towards was "Dutch Boy".
How does that rate? It was regularly $25/gal on sale for $20/gal.
I just bought some primer today.

Bill

BTW, You are quite correct: If I lean boards against the wall, I don't
want them to stick!

I have never used Dutch Boy however let me restate, Dutch Boy, Glidden,
Sherwin Williams, Prat & Lambert are all top brand paints. Don't buy
their cheapest paint. Regardless of whet "top" brand you buy, you want
their best paint. Keep in mind that while you may think that you may
never need the "higher" quality paint for your shop or garage the higher
quality paints tend to go on the wall much better and with much less
effort from you aside from the performance you get out of the paint
years down the road.

Price never indicates the quality for sure but I once painted a kitchen
for a customer, including the inside of her pantry. I had installed new
cabinet door and drawer fronts and drawers and painted the insides of
the cabinets too. I used "1" gallon of Pratt & Lambert Alkaid based oil
enamel and coverage was great. IIRC 10 years ago I paid about $50 per
gallon, but it only took one gallon and one coat.


Thank you for the lesson. I don't think I've ever applied "good" paint.

I did a lot of painting during 2 summers while in school, and I recall
paying $6 to 8 a gallon at Sears, depending on whether it was on sale or
not. I always used two coats, and it required 2 coats. I charged about
$5/hr, and only for the time I was on-site, and had plenty of work.
Minimum wage was about $3.35 so it seemed fair enough at the time to a
"poor college student". I enjoyed trying to "master the skill", working
in a business-like manner, and got to listen to the radio all day. I
didn't advertise myself as a pro, but I think I gave people more than
their moneys-worth. Word of mouth was on my side. Not bad memories.

Maybe there are unemployed people in this country who could find
painting work if they applied themselves?

Bill


Yeah one of my buddies that used me to do the wood work repairs in the
home he was always fixing up for a realtor got me into painting. We
probably painted 40+ houses since 1998. The radio was necessary tool.
;~)

On 8/4/2011 12:54 AM, Morgans wrote:
"Bill" wrote in message ...

I learned there are 4 kinds: flat, eggshell, satin and semigloss.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Not quite accurate, with the 4 kinds.

Eggshell is a color of paint; just an off white. It can be purchased in

flat semigloss and gloss.

In wall and trim types of paint, flat is usually used for walls, with
semigloss often chosen for the same room to be used on the trim. Flat
does not reflect a point light source in a way that the point light can
still be seen as a point. (like a light bulb)

Semigloss will reflect a point light source some, but will diffuse it some.

Gloss has a shine that will allow a person to see the point light
reflected, almost like a mirror or piece of glass.

Satin is a term usually used with clear finishes, and compares to flat.
Semigloss is next, then gloss; all when talking about wood finishes.

I hope this is all what others remember, but I am not looking at product
on the shelf as I write this, so I might be off some. Eggshell is
definitely just an off shade of white, and is not a descriptor of the
shine of the finish, at any rate.

Actually you are both correct, EggShell is a sheen and it is a color.

http://paintpro.net/Articles/PP802/P...l_Finishes.cfm

Google egg shell paint and you will get many references backing up both
descriptions

On Thu, 04 Aug 2011 07:06:37 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

Yeah one of my buddies that used me to do the wood work repairs in the
home he was always fixing up for a realtor got me into painting. We
probably painted 40+ houses since 1998. The radio was necessary tool.
;~)

Leon, Leon, you've got to start trimming some of your posts. 150
lines of rhetoric in this message you just answered.

Puckdropper wrote:
wrote in
:

Larry Jaques wrote:

Back to Bill: PAINT THE SHOP PURE WHITE. NO TINTS, NO COLOR. OK?

Paint the ceiling satin too, huh?

I DO think I'll go with WHITE as you so subtly suggested. Although
I have brought any paint strips home. I suppose that makes the price
of paint really go up, huh?

White should make a good canvas for my mural...

Bill


Oh don't do that. You'll feel bad about covering it up with tools and
wood. (You'll still do it anyway, having a working shop is more
important than art.)

Mind if I e-mail you a picture? It's just a snapshot and not worth
putting up on Usenet or the website.

Puckdropper

I'm sure people figured out I meant to type "I haven't brought any paint
strips home". Puck: send what ya got.

Bill

On Thu, 04 Aug 2011 00:31:28 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 8/4/2011 12:29 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 03 Aug 2011 14:39:18 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 8/3/2011 12:01 PM, Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:
On 8/3/2011 11:03 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 03 Aug 2011 08:10:20 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:
Absolutely, I am very happy with the sheen and color, and that it is
still clean in a 7 month old shop that has been creating lots of saw
dust. Actually the color by a normal persons standards is white, the
color chip says Swedish Coffee?

Wait just a darned minute here. You're saying that you, a Festool
user, have a shop which is full of sawdust? WTF,O?

Does Not Compute.

Your scanner must have a Yuppie interface, painted wall still clean.

Oops! Non-yuppie brainfart, but you led me on with the "creating lots
of saw dust" statement, too. I accept only 1/2 the guilt.

--
In the depth of winter, I finally learned
that within me there lay an invincible summer.
-- Albert Camus

On Thu, 04 Aug 2011 03:33:22 -0400, Bill
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:

Back to Bill: PAINT THE SHOP PURE WHITE. NO TINTS, NO COLOR. OK?

Paint the ceiling satin too, huh?

Yes. And I used porch and floor paint (white) for my concrete floor,
too. It's bright and beautiful when it's clean.


I DO think I'll go with WHITE as you so subtly suggested. Although
I have brought any paint strips home. I suppose that makes the price of
paint really go up, huh?

No, they usually gouge just as much for pure white as any color, even
though many of the pigments -aren't- cheap.


White should make a good canvas for my mural...

Egad! I suppose we'll hear about every stroke made on that for several
years... (Decades?) chortle

--
In the depth of winter, I finally learned
that within me there lay an invincible summer.
-- Albert Camus

On Thu, 04 Aug 2011 09:01:18 -0400, Bill
wrote:

I'm sure people figured out I meant to type "I haven't brought any paint
strips home".

Wrong. We know you too well to assume anything of the sort.
snort

--
In the depth of winter, I finally learned
that within me there lay an invincible summer.
-- Albert Camus

On Thu, 04 Aug 2011 07:01:21 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 8/4/2011 2:33 AM, Bill wrote:
Larry Jaques wrote:

Back to Bill: PAINT THE SHOP PURE WHITE. NO TINTS, NO COLOR. OK?

Paint the ceiling satin too, huh?

I DO think I'll go with WHITE as you so subtly suggested. Although
I have brought any paint strips home. I suppose that makes the price of
paint really go up, huh?

White should make a good canvas for my mural...

Bill

Now that is what I left the same color, a light flat beige color. I did
not want to go to that much trouble and most the light hitting the
ceiling is blocked by the lamp base. All other light hitting the
ceiling has already been reflected from some where else. I still have
what my wife describes as the tit up landing zone.

I won't ask. But I think your ceiling would give you more light
if you put a coat of white on it, Leon. Noticeable light.


Regarding your first sentence:

Q: What did the Jewish American Princess say while she was having sex?

A: Beige. I think I'll paint the ceiling beige.


--
In the depth of winter, I finally learned
that within me there lay an invincible summer.
-- Albert Camus