On Sat, 06 Aug 2011 00:30:11 -0500, -MIKE- wrote:

On 8/5/11 11:43 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Fri, 05 Aug 2011 22:38:40 -0500, wrote:

On 8/5/11 10:27 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Fri, 05 Aug 2011 20:07:30 -0500, wrote:

On 8/5/11 7:42 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
The guard on my old (30 years) crapsman rotates to the front to hold down the
board against kickback. The pawls and splitter rotate down from the rear of
the guard. The guard doesn't do squat for flying sawdust.

...

Did you look into getting the free replacement table and guard?

http://www.radialarmsawrecall.com/

Didn't know about the new guard and table. I'll look into it but how does a
guard cover the entire blade?


http://tedwiebe.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/dsc_00021.jpg

Thanks, but it looks backwards. Doesn't the front-bottom of the guard catch
on the wood/fence when it's pulled across it? It also looks like the hinges
are backwards, or set up to cut on the push.

No, it's doesn't catch. I guess if your fence is higher than normal, it
may, but there's also a lift on the handle, to lift it for whatever
reason, including that.

Thnaks. I ordered the "kit" for my saw (113.19771). It implies that the
"kit" contains a guard and table. The site said it would take 8-10 weeks to
get here. Since it was some time before 1993 (we moved that year and I never
put it back together) when I last used it, I think I can wait. ;-)

As for the hinges, remember that a RAS also rips. Most guys don't do
this and think it's dangerous. I've ripped a lot with mine and it's no
more dangerous than on a table saw, when done correctly.

It's perfectly safe, when done correctly. ;-) I'm one of the "most guys",
though I have ripped a *lot* with it, too. I didn't set it up after the move,
primarily because I didn't like ripping on it. Not that I have a table saw,
that's not an issue.

FWIW, when end cutting narrow stock, I often pull the saw out, set my
board, then cut on the push stroke to avoid that forward push sensation
of a RAS. I also use a blade with a negative hook angle to lessen that.

The issue I have is on the other side of the blade. With a TS my hands are
never on the back side when power is on. I suppose one can do the same with a
RAS, but it's awkward. OTOH, I never stood in the line of fire when using the
RAS. With a TS it's a little more difficult to stand completely aside.

On Sat, 06 Aug 2011 11:34:34 -0500, "
I don't know if "challenge" is the right word. It cuts but it will bog down
if I put any pressure on it. It cuts a lot slower than I expected. I'll
contact Festool. Thanks for the information.

I was thinking, could the problem be your technique? When you're
ripping a sheet of plywood, how much of your blade is protruding
through the plywood? If your blade is protruding through the plywood
an inch or more then it's too much.

It's generally accepted in Festool circles that 1-2 mm through what
your cutting is the proper depth of cut.

On Sat, 06 Aug 2011 16:17:25 -0400, Dave wrote:

On Sat, 06 Aug 2011 11:34:34 -0500, "
I don't know if "challenge" is the right word. It cuts but it will bog down
if I put any pressure on it. It cuts a lot slower than I expected. I'll
contact Festool. Thanks for the information.

I was thinking, could the problem be your technique? When you're
ripping a sheet of plywood, how much of your blade is protruding
through the plywood? If your blade is protruding through the plywood
an inch or more then it's too much.

Could be. With the Festool, just enough to break the surface (plus maybe
1/16"). With other saws, I try to get the whole tooth out of the material.
Not sure this is proper technique, either.

It's generally accepted in Festool circles that 1-2 mm through what
your cutting is the proper depth of cut.

I figured that's why they added accurate depth control. ;-)

On 8/6/11 2:26 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
Thnaks. I ordered the "kit" for my saw (113.19771). It implies that the
"kit" contains a guard and table. The site said it would take 8-10 weeks to
get here. Since it was some time before 1993 (we moved that year and I never
put it back together) when I last used it, I think I can wait. ;-)


They said "8-10 weeks" when I ordered mine and it showed up 3 days later.
Two very big, heavy boxes.


The issue I have is on the other side of the blade. With a TS my hands are
never on the back side when power is on. I suppose one can do the same with a
RAS, but it's awkward. OTOH, I never stood in the line of fire when using the
RAS. With a TS it's a little more difficult to stand completely aside.

I actually came up with a good idea for a brake on the sliding arm that
would always be engaged and only disengage when the squeeze handle was
pulled. There would be a ratcheting system that would not allow the
blade assembly to move unless the trigger was pulled.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

-MIKE- wrote the following:
On 8/5/11 7:42 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
The guard on my old (30 years) crapsman rotates to the front to hold
down the
board against kickback. The pawls and splitter rotate down from the
rear of
the guard. The guard doesn't do squat for flying sawdust.

...

Did you look into getting the free replacement table and guard?

http://www.radialarmsawrecall.com/




I got the replacement table and guard for the Craftsman years ago. It's
still in the box it came in, sitting next to the RAS.


--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

On 8/6/11 3:48 PM, willshak wrote:
-MIKE- wrote the following:
On 8/5/11 7:42 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
The guard on my old (30 years) crapsman rotates to the front to hold
down the
board against kickback. The pawls and splitter rotate down from the
rear of
the guard. The guard doesn't do squat for flying sawdust.

...

Did you look into getting the free replacement table and guard?

http://www.radialarmsawrecall.com/




I got the replacement table and guard for the Craftsman years ago. It's
still in the box it came in, sitting next to the RAS.


That was very helpful.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 8/6/2011 2:26 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 8/6/11 1:40 PM, Steve Turner wrote:
On 8/5/2011 11:19 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 8/5/11 11:04 PM, Steve Turner wrote:
Go for it. Mike turned me on....


Perv.

Tease.


Bitch.

Democrat.

--
"Our beer goes through thousands of quality Czechs every day."
(From a Shiner Bock billboard I saw in Austin some years ago)
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

On Sat, 06 Aug 2011 15:32:45 -0500, -MIKE- wrote:

On 8/6/11 2:26 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
Thnaks. I ordered the "kit" for my saw (113.19771). It implies that the
"kit" contains a guard and table. The site said it would take 8-10 weeks to
get here. Since it was some time before 1993 (we moved that year and I never
put it back together) when I last used it, I think I can wait. ;-)


They said "8-10 weeks" when I ordered mine and it showed up 3 days later.
Two very big, heavy boxes.

Then I'll have to find a place to store 'em.

The issue I have is on the other side of the blade. With a TS my hands are
never on the back side when power is on. I suppose one can do the same with a
RAS, but it's awkward. OTOH, I never stood in the line of fire when using the
RAS. With a TS it's a little more difficult to stand completely aside.

I actually came up with a good idea for a brake on the sliding arm that
would always be engaged and only disengage when the squeeze handle was
pulled. There would be a ratcheting system that would not allow the
blade assembly to move unless the trigger was pulled.

The other danger is the blade powering the carriage towards the operator. It
seems that sort of thing could take care of that, too. With modern
electronics such a thing would be trivial but I think the days of the RAS are
over. I certainly wouldn't buy one now.

On 8/6/11 6:34 PM, Steve Turner wrote:
On 8/6/2011 2:26 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 8/6/11 1:40 PM, Steve Turner wrote:
On 8/5/2011 11:19 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 8/5/11 11:04 PM, Steve Turner wrote:
Go for it. Mike turned me on....


Perv.

Tease.


Bitch.

Democrat.


Hey, hey, hey!!! Geez, man... we were just razzing each other and you
had to blow a fuse throw out the D word. wow. chill out, have a beer.

That's the last time I let you see me in tight pants.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

"Doug Miller" wrote in message ...

My old faithful corded circular saw finally bit the dust yesterday.
Something
went Pop! and it stopped running. Disassembly today shows half a dozen
segments missing from the commutator; the critical parts are no longer
available (after 15+ years, that's no surprise), so it's time to buy a new
one.

My uses are, I think, pretty typical: framing, building decks, cutting sheet
goods to manageable size.

I'm looking for something that will last a good long time. The one that
died is only the second one I've ever owned; the first one lasted nearly 20
years, and I'm hoping for similar durability. The budget is large enough to
include Bosch, Makita, or Milwaukee, but not Festool.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have had a standard right blade Milwaukee on the job for just about every
work day since 1982. I have never done anything to it but replace switches
and cords. Not even ever re-greased the gearbox.
You have my recommendation. It is probably the heaviest saw, but the
toughest, and has the best torque for ripping of any I have used.
Oh, this is for a corded model.

-- Jim in NC

On 8/6/2011 6:10 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 06 Aug 2011 15:32:45 -0500, wrote:

On 8/6/11 2:26 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
Thnaks. I ordered the "kit" for my saw (113.19771). It implies that the
"kit" contains a guard and table. The site said it would take 8-10 weeks to
get here. Since it was some time before 1993 (we moved that year and I never
put it back together) when I last used it, I think I can wait. ;-)


They said "8-10 weeks" when I ordered mine and it showed up 3 days later.
Two very big, heavy boxes.

Then I'll have to find a place to store 'em.

The issue I have is on the other side of the blade. With a TS my hands are
never on the back side when power is on. I suppose one can do the same with a
RAS, but it's awkward. OTOH, I never stood in the line of fire when using the
RAS. With a TS it's a little more difficult to stand completely aside.

I actually came up with a good idea for a brake on the sliding arm that
would always be engaged and only disengage when the squeeze handle was
pulled. There would be a ratcheting system that would not allow the
blade assembly to move unless the trigger was pulled.

The other danger is the blade powering the carriage towards the operator. It
seems that sort of thing could take care of that, too. With modern
electronics such a thing would be trivial but I think the days of the RAS are
over. I certainly wouldn't buy one now.


My current Searz RAS has a feature called "control cut". It's a
motorized cable that only lets the motor advance at a controlled rate
and retracts the motor when the trigger is released. It has a variable
rate control thumb dial. Works great.

One thing I made sure of is the cast shoe. I had a stamped one on my
previous
saw. Any little bump would whack it out of alignment.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
One thing I would add is the shoe mounting is as or more important as the
shoe, I think.
It is tough to knock it out of line because the mounting is so heavy. If
you drop it off of the roof, all you do is straighten the shoe with a hammer
and keep on rocking.
The Milwaukee has the type of mount where you can tell exactly how much you
are raising or lowering the blade. It also still cuts on the same place on
shoe notch whether you have the saw on 0 degrees, 25 or 45 degrees.

-- Jim in NC

On 8/6/2011 9:38 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 8/6/11 6:34 PM, Steve Turner wrote:
On 8/6/2011 2:26 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 8/6/11 1:40 PM, Steve Turner wrote:
On 8/5/2011 11:19 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 8/5/11 11:04 PM, Steve Turner wrote:
Go for it. Mike turned me on....


Perv.

Tease.


Bitch.

Democrat.


Hey, hey, hey!!! Geez, man... we were just razzing each other and you
had to blow a fuse throw out the D word. wow. chill out, have a beer.

That's the last time I let you see me in tight pants.

Sorry; maybe I did get a little carried away. :-)

--
"Our beer goes through thousands of quality Czechs every day."
(From a Shiner Bock billboard I saw in Austin some years ago)
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

On Sun, 7 Aug 2011 01:13:19 -0400, "Morgans" wrote:

One thing I made sure of is the cast shoe. I had a stamped one on my
previous
saw. Any little bump would whack it out of alignment.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
One thing I would add is the shoe mounting is as or more important as the
shoe, I think.

Agreed, but I consider that part of the shoe.

It is tough to knock it out of line because the mounting is so heavy. If
you drop it off of the roof, all you do is straighten the shoe with a hammer
and keep on rocking.

I don't intend to drop if off a roof, so I'd rather have a stiffer, more
accurate shoe (and mounting). I rarely cut anything other than a 90degree
cut, so that rigidity is what I looked for. There are so many circular saws
to choose from. When buying a new one, think about how you're likely to use
it.

The Milwaukee has the type of mount where you can tell exactly how much you
are raising or lowering the blade. It also still cuts on the same place on
shoe notch whether you have the saw on 0 degrees, 25 or 45 degrees.

The rear-pivot DeWalt DW364 has the depth gauge, too. It's pretty slick.

On Sat, 06 Aug 2011 22:07:40 -0700, Doug Winterburn
wrote:

On 8/6/2011 6:10 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 06 Aug 2011 15:32:45 -0500, wrote:

On 8/6/11 2:26 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
Thnaks. I ordered the "kit" for my saw (113.19771). It implies that the
"kit" contains a guard and table. The site said it would take 8-10 weeks to
get here. Since it was some time before 1993 (we moved that year and I never
put it back together) when I last used it, I think I can wait. ;-)


They said "8-10 weeks" when I ordered mine and it showed up 3 days later.
Two very big, heavy boxes.

Then I'll have to find a place to store 'em.

The issue I have is on the other side of the blade. With a TS my hands are
never on the back side when power is on. I suppose one can do the same with a
RAS, but it's awkward. OTOH, I never stood in the line of fire when using the
RAS. With a TS it's a little more difficult to stand completely aside.

I actually came up with a good idea for a brake on the sliding arm that
would always be engaged and only disengage when the squeeze handle was
pulled. There would be a ratcheting system that would not allow the
blade assembly to move unless the trigger was pulled.

The other danger is the blade powering the carriage towards the operator. It
seems that sort of thing could take care of that, too. With modern
electronics such a thing would be trivial but I think the days of the RAS are
over. I certainly wouldn't buy one now.


My current Searz RAS has a feature called "control cut". It's a
motorized cable that only lets the motor advance at a controlled rate
and retracts the motor when the trigger is released. It has a variable
rate control thumb dial. Works great.

Ok, so someone stole my idea. ;-)

In article ,
Doug Winterburn wrote:

On 8/6/2011 6:10 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 06 Aug 2011 15:32:45 -0500, wrote:

On 8/6/11 2:26 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
Thnaks. I ordered the "kit" for my saw (113.19771). It implies that the
"kit" contains a guard and table. The site said it would take 8-10 weeks
to
get here. Since it was some time before 1993 (we moved that year and I
never
put it back together) when I last used it, I think I can wait. ;-)


They said "8-10 weeks" when I ordered mine and it showed up 3 days later.
Two very big, heavy boxes.

Then I'll have to find a place to store 'em.

The issue I have is on the other side of the blade. With a TS my hands
are
never on the back side when power is on. I suppose one can do the same
with a
RAS, but it's awkward. OTOH, I never stood in the line of fire when
using the
RAS. With a TS it's a little more difficult to stand completely aside.

I actually came up with a good idea for a brake on the sliding arm that
would always be engaged and only disengage when the squeeze handle was
pulled. There would be a ratcheting system that would not allow the
blade assembly to move unless the trigger was pulled.

The other danger is the blade powering the carriage towards the operator.
It
seems that sort of thing could take care of that, too. With modern
electronics such a thing would be trivial but I think the days of the RAS
are
over. I certainly wouldn't buy one now.


My current Searz RAS has a feature called "control cut". It's a
motorized cable that only lets the motor advance at a controlled rate
and retracts the motor when the trigger is released. It has a variable
rate control thumb dial. Works great.

Oh yea... sounds REAL safe. The motor retracts itself past the 'just
cut' little pieces while the blade is still spinning down or even
stopped? Can't you hear that wonderful sound of KAHcchAAANGGG when it
jams a cut-off into the slot? What the hell, a new blade, maybe an eye,
maybe a thumb....


RAS should be O U T L A W E D ! !

On 8/7/2011 12:12 PM, Robatoy wrote:
....

RAS should be O U T L A W E D ! !

More N O N S E N S E...

--

"Robatoy" wrote:

RAS should be O U T L A W E D ! !
---------------------------------------
You want an argument, change the subject.

Cerritos college has ONE (1) RAS in the entire facility.

It's use is restricted to cross cutting rough stock to length.

Even that cut gives me the "willies"

Lew

On 8/7/2011 2:04 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
"Robatoy" wrote:

RAS should be O U T L A W E D ! !
---------------------------------------
You want an argument, change the subject.

Cerritos college has ONE (1) RAS in the entire facility.

It's use is restricted to cross cutting rough stock to length.

Even that cut gives me the "willies"

A RAS, and I owned one, is only tool that I always approached with a
great deal of, if not exactly fear, trepidation. Finally got rid of
because I was always looking for another way to do something instead of
using it.


--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

In article m, "Lew Hodgett" wrote:

"Robatoy" wrote:

RAS should be O U T L A W E D ! !
---------------------------------------
You want an argument, change the subject.

Cerritos college has ONE (1) RAS in the entire facility.

It's use is restricted to cross cutting rough stock to length.

Even that cut gives me the "willies"

Why should it? I've never understood the antipathy that many guys here have
toward radial arm saws. One person used to call them "radical harm saws" and I
truly don't understand why. It's just a case of using the right tool for the
right job. A radial arm saw is *not* the right tool for ripping (not the best
one, anyway), but IMHO it's safer than a table saw for crosscuts:

- The stock stays put; you can even clamp it to the table if you want. There's
*zero* possibility that a long board can torque crooked, bind, and kick back.

- Since the stock doesn't move, there's no kickback danger posed by cutting
unsurfaced lumber that might rock or twist: shim it, clamp it, cut it.

- If a RAS ever *does* kick back, the wood is thrown *away* from the operator.

- The saw carriage runs on *rails*. Don't put your hand in line with the
rails, and it's completely impossible to be hit by the blade.

Swingman wrote:
On 8/7/2011 2:04 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
"Robatoy" wrote:

RAS should be O U T L A W E D ! !
---------------------------------------
You want an argument, change the subject.

Cerritos college has ONE (1) RAS in the entire facility.

It's use is restricted to cross cutting rough stock to length.

Even that cut gives me the "willies"

A RAS, and I owned one, is only tool that I always approached with a
great deal of, if not exactly fear, trepidation. Finally got rid of
because I was always looking for another way to do something instead of
using it.

Nice overview of the RAS at the link below. Evidentally, it doesn't tell
"the whole story" (I've never used one). It does say that those made
after the early 60's were generally made to loose tolerances.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radial_arm_saw

"Doug Miller" wrote in message ...
- If a RAS ever *does* kick back, the wood is thrown *away* from the
operator.

- The saw carriage runs on *rails*. Don't put your hand in line with the
rails, and it's completely impossible to be hit by the blade.

=============

Things bounce when forced to

Never say "never". People cut fingers off on presses that only travel a
straight, repetitive line, unfortunately.
Your turn to peel the potatoes!
--

Eric

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
...
In article m, "Lew
Hodgett" wrote:

"Robatoy" wrote:

RAS should be O U T L A W E D ! !
---------------------------------------
You want an argument, change the subject.

Cerritos college has ONE (1) RAS in the entire facility.

It's use is restricted to cross cutting rough stock to length.

Even that cut gives me the "willies"

Why should it? I've never understood the antipathy that many guys here
have
toward radial arm saws. One person used to call them "radical harm saws"
and I
truly don't understand why. It's just a case of using the right tool for
the
right job. A radial arm saw is *not* the right tool for ripping (not the
best
one, anyway), but IMHO it's safer than a table saw for crosscuts:

- The stock stays put; you can even clamp it to the table if you want.
There's
*zero* possibility that a long board can torque crooked, bind, and kick
back.

- Since the stock doesn't move, there's no kickback danger posed by
cutting
unsurfaced lumber that might rock or twist: shim it, clamp it, cut it.

- If a RAS ever *does* kick back, the wood is thrown *away* from the
operator.

- The saw carriage runs on *rails*. Don't put your hand in line with the
rails, and it's completely impossible to be hit by the blade.

I grew up around radial arm saws. I used them for many years. I did lots
of work with dados and having to cut a lot of stock to length. It worked
great for that. I have used mostly large, commercial 12 inch saws. At one
time, every house construction project had a radial arm saw on site. I knew
this guy who used to fabricate metal trailers which mounted a radial arm saw
on it with a roof. He would just tow it to the site. He built about ten of
them and rented them out.

I have done thousands of cuts on these saws over the years. I have all ten
fingers and toes. Of course, I AM a safety freak. I never understood these
irrational fear about these saws. There are an abundance of ways to injure
yourself with power tools. People do it all the time. I just wonder what
the safety practices are of those folks who fear these saws.

I will be the first to admit that there are more tool options available now
that did not exist way back when. So the saw may not be as needed as it
once was. And I know those old dewalts were a really good piece of
equipment. Folks are buying those and restoring them. I don't have one
now, not enough room. But when I get a bigger shop, I will be putting a RAS
in. I am comfortable with it and I would use it regularly.

"Lee Michaels" wrote in message
b.com...
I grew up around radial arm saws. I used them for many years. I did lots
of work with dados and having to cut a lot of stock to length. It worked
great for that. I have used mostly large, commercial 12 inch saws. At one
time, every house construction project had a radial arm saw on site. I knew
this guy who used to fabricate metal trailers which mounted a radial arm saw
on it with a roof. He would just tow it to the site. He built about ten of
them and rented them out.

I have done thousands of cuts on these saws over the years. I have all ten
fingers and toes. Of course, I AM a safety freak. I never understood these
irrational fear about these saws. There are an abundance of ways to injure
yourself with power tools. People do it all the time. I just wonder what
the safety practices are of those folks who fear these saws.

I will be the first to admit that there are more tool options available now
that did not exist way back when. So the saw may not be as needed as it
once was. And I know those old dewalts were a really good piece of
equipment. Folks are buying those and restoring them. I don't have one
now, not enough room. But when I get a bigger shop, I will be putting a RAS
in. I am comfortable with it and I would use it regularly.


=====================

Never used a RAS but wonder how they compare with a good sliding miter saw.
I couldn't live without one, even a cheap one.
Advantages or disadvantages?

--

Eric

In article m,
"Lee Michaels" leemichaels*nadaspam* at comcast dot net wrote:

[snipped all be the important part.LOL]

I AM a safety freak.



There you have it. You HAVE to be 110% awake, NO routine cuts, perfect
set-up and materials...

For a super careful, vigilant user, RAS's offer only a small set of
advantages that simple aren't worth the danger.

Never used a RAS but wonder how they compare with a good sliding miter
saw.
I couldn't live without one, even a cheap one.
Advantages or disadvantages?

--

Eric

13 1/2 inch crosscut.
I finally built a crosscut jig to use with a circular saw.

Max

On 8/7/2011 4:34 PM, Lee Michaels wrote:

I have done thousands of cuts on these saws over the years. I have all
ten fingers and toes. Of course, I AM a safety freak. I never
understood these irrational fear about these saws.

I've also made thousands of cuts with one, all with trepidation.

Irrational it is ... nonetheless, I have an uncanny sense of impending
danger - I learned not to argue with it.

It's why I'm still here.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

If you are referring to a RAS capacity, I fail to see much difference. My
$179 10" cuts a 2x12 (hundreds of them) and has a few more space to go. I
would have actually check the throat capacity to be sure. I believe I have
to do a flip over for 3/4" x 16" shelving to get the last 1"


----------------
"Max" wrote in message
eb.com...
13 1/2 inch crosscut.
I finally built a crosscut jig to use with a circular saw.
-------------------
Never used a RAS but wonder how they compare with a good sliding miter
saw.
I couldn't live without one, even a cheap one.
Advantages or disadvantages?

--

Eric

On 8/7/2011 2:51 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
In aweb.com, "Lew wrote:

"Robatoy" wrote:

RAS should be O U T L A W E D ! !
---------------------------------------
You want an argument, change the subject.

Cerritos college has ONE (1) RAS in the entire facility.

It's use is restricted to cross cutting rough stock to length.

Even that cut gives me the "willies"

Why should it? I've never understood the antipathy that many guys here have
toward radial arm saws. One person used to call them "radical harm saws" and I
truly don't understand why. It's just a case of using the right tool for the
right job. A radial arm saw is *not* the right tool for ripping (not the best
one, anyway), but IMHO it's safer than a table saw for crosscuts:

Well you may have answered your own question there Doug. While most
every one will agree that the RAS is not comforting to use in the rip
application, it is indeed built and intended to be used to rip material.
So that is probably why most every one would prefer to never use one.

FWIW I owned one for about 5 years and build a lot of furniture that I
still own today and did quite a bit of ripping with it. For me I had
more problems with it while crosscutting, probably because I did mostly
cross cutting but I never got used to cutting into a narley SYP knot and
the blade and motor trying to climb up over the board rather than cut
through the knot, for what ever reason. ;~)

Three years after buying it I added a contractors saw to my shop and
literally never used the RAS again.

"m II" wrote in message
...
If you are referring to a RAS capacity, I fail to see much difference. My
$179 10" cuts a 2x12 (hundreds of them) and has a few more space to go. I
would have actually check the throat capacity to be sure. I believe I have
to do a flip over for 3/4" x 16" shelving to get the last 1"


----------------
"Max" wrote in message
eb.com...
13 1/2 inch crosscut.
I finally built a crosscut jig to use with a circular saw.
-------------------
Never used a RAS but wonder how they compare with a good sliding miter
saw.
I couldn't live without one, even a cheap one.
Advantages or disadvantages?

--

Eric

I bought my RAS in 1969. I wasn't aware of any sliding miter saws available
at the time.
Last year I replaced a Bosch 8" sliding miter saw with a Milwaukee 12". I
still use the jig I built for crosscutting anything over a foot wide.
If I happen to have the Festool TS75 out of its systainer I'll use it just
for the dust collection.
(and, of course, it'll be out of its systainer if I'm cutting panel goods)
But I'm still not selling the RAS. ;-)

Max

On Sun, 07 Aug 2011 19:51:46 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article m, "Lew Hodgett" wrote:

"Robatoy" wrote:

RAS should be O U T L A W E D ! !
---------------------------------------
You want an argument, change the subject.

Cerritos college has ONE (1) RAS in the entire facility.

It's use is restricted to cross cutting rough stock to length.

Even that cut gives me the "willies"

Why should it? I've never understood the antipathy that many guys here have
toward radial arm saws. One person used to call them "radical harm saws" and I
truly don't understand why. It's just a case of using the right tool for the
right job. A radial arm saw is *not* the right tool for ripping (not the best
one, anyway), but IMHO it's safer than a table saw for crosscuts:

- The stock stays put; you can even clamp it to the table if you want. There's
*zero* possibility that a long board can torque crooked, bind, and kick back.

I *did* have a board (cedar, in fact) bind and "kick back" (actually propelled
the carriage toward me). It eventually grabbed hold of the saw blade and
stopped it dead. Then I changed my pants.

- Since the stock doesn't move, there's no kickback danger posed by cutting
unsurfaced lumber that might rock or twist: shim it, clamp it, cut it.

- If a RAS ever *does* kick back, the wood is thrown *away* from the operator.

Not on a crosscut!

- The saw carriage runs on *rails*. Don't put your hand in line with the
rails, and it's completely impossible to be hit by the blade.

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote


Well you may have answered your own question there Doug. While most every
one will agree that the RAS is not comforting to use in the rip
application, it is indeed built and intended to be used to rip material.
So that is probably why most every one would prefer to never use one.

FWIW I owned one for about 5 years and build a lot of furniture that I
still own today and did quite a bit of ripping with it. For me I had more
problems with it while crosscutting, probably because I did mostly cross
cutting but I never got used to cutting into a narley SYP knot and the
blade and motor trying to climb up over the board rather than cut through
the knot, for what ever reason. ;~)

Three years after buying it I added a contractors saw to my shop and
literally never used the RAS again.



I've never had a problem with a RAS (I've never tried ripping) but my son
cross cut a piece of Oak and it climbed on him, broke a tooth off the blade,
misaligned the saw and he hasn't used it since.
Contrariwise, I've had a couple pieces of wood slung at me from a table saw.
Go figger. G

Max

Swingman wrote in
:

I've also made thousands of cuts with one, all with trepidation.

Irrational it is ... nonetheless, I have an uncanny sense of impending
danger - I learned not to argue with it.

It's why I'm still here.


I've only made a few dozen cuts with one, but it seems to me that the
one place the RAS would be better than any other tool is crosscut dados.
Crosscutting on the table saw tends to be a bit of an adventure,
especially if table width is limited. (Things may be different if I had
a sled. Just haven't needed one bad enough to make one.)

I haven't touched a RAS since high school.

Puckdropper

On 8/7/2011 8:09 PM, Max wrote:
"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote


Well you may have answered your own question there Doug. While most
every one will agree that the RAS is not comforting to use in the rip
application, it is indeed built and intended to be used to rip
material. So that is probably why most every one would prefer to never
use one.

FWIW I owned one for about 5 years and build a lot of furniture that I
still own today and did quite a bit of ripping with it. For me I had
more problems with it while crosscutting, probably because I did
mostly cross cutting but I never got used to cutting into a narley SYP
knot and the blade and motor trying to climb up over the board rather
than cut through the knot, for what ever reason. ;~)

Three years after buying it I added a contractors saw to my shop and
literally never used the RAS again.



I've never had a problem with a RAS (I've never tried ripping) but my
son cross cut a piece of Oak and it climbed on him, broke a tooth off
the blade, misaligned the saw and he hasn't used it since.
Contrariwise, I've had a couple pieces of wood slung at me from a table
saw. Go figger. G

Max
I think the biggest problem with a RAS is that they can get knocked out
of alignment pretty easily and there are numerous adjustments to zero in
on. The table has to be parallel to the same plane that the carriage
rides on, the blade has to lock in parallel or 90 degrees to the path of
the carriage. The arm has to lock in at 90 degrees to the fence to make
a 90 degree cut and the fence is not always straight, once cut it can
warp or twist. It is imperative that you have flat straight stock when
cross cutting or you are going to have at least a little problem.
If you ever do rip with your RAS "remember" that you feed against the
rotation of the blade. While this sounds like common sense you can rip
from either side of the table. Typically for narrow stock you are on
the right side of the table with the motor pointing away from the arm
column. For wider rip capacity you can rip from the left side of the
table but be sure to rotate the motor so that it points towards the
column arm. Keep in mind that in this situation the stock needs to be
wide so that you can have room to push the stock through with out having
the motor interfere. Get any of those positions or steps backwards and
you end up with a board launcher.

On 8/7/2011 7:58 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sun, 07 Aug 2011 19:51:46 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:
....

- If a RAS ever *does* kick back, the wood is thrown *away* from the operator.

Not on a crosscut!
....

Horse pucky!

How can it be anything else unless one is standing behind the saw
instead at the operator location? The blade is rotating away and the
arm, motor and blade guard (as well as the kickback pawls--you _are_
using and have them set properly aren't you--I knew you were) prevent an
material from possibly going up and over and thereby towards the operator.

If anything, the carriage may try to accelerate, but holding a firm hold
on it is sufficient.

I've used the RAS for 30 years+ and never had even a hint of such a
thing as kickback of material, riding over a board or the other examples
cited.

I can only infer that most of these are very lightweight, small machines
that aren't rigid enough to prevent such things. Those might, indeed,
as Robotoy says, be worthy candidates for abolishing and since they have
little if any more capacity crosscut wise than the sliding miter saw if
that's all one is doing with one then may as well use them instead since
they now exist (as another said, that's a fairly recent development).

IMO a RAS should be nothing less than the 12"
DeWalt/Rockwell=Delta/Original Saw or similar; the little 10" things
from Sears are just too lightly built. I've the 16" Rockwell-Delta and
it's used extensively; primarily for roughing out large stock to length
but it rips much more conveniently than the TS as well for sizable
pieces; it's not as handy for taking a smidge off the edge.

But, they belong built into a long table so there's support both infeed
and outfeed and as such w/ a well constructed table they are both
effective and efficient as well as safe to operate.

In my early days, like Leon, it and a jointer were the only power tools
I had and it did everything from the rough outs to shaping and even
thickness planing w/ the rotary head attachment...also have a chain
mortiser attachment that works the cat's meow for larger end mortises
and particularly angles. A drill arbor on the rear shaft and it's great
for center drilling posts, etc, as well.

--

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
...
On 8/7/2011 8:09 PM, Max wrote:
"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote


Well you may have answered your own question there Doug. While most
every one will agree that the RAS is not comforting to use in the rip
application, it is indeed built and intended to be used to rip
material. So that is probably why most every one would prefer to never
use one.

FWIW I owned one for about 5 years and build a lot of furniture that I
still own today and did quite a bit of ripping with it. For me I had
more problems with it while crosscutting, probably because I did
mostly cross cutting but I never got used to cutting into a narley SYP
knot and the blade and motor trying to climb up over the board rather
than cut through the knot, for what ever reason. ;~)

Three years after buying it I added a contractors saw to my shop and
literally never used the RAS again.



I've never had a problem with a RAS (I've never tried ripping) but my
son cross cut a piece of Oak and it climbed on him, broke a tooth off
the blade, misaligned the saw and he hasn't used it since.
Contrariwise, I've had a couple pieces of wood slung at me from a table
saw. Go figger. G

Max
I think the biggest problem with a RAS is that they can get knocked out of
alignment pretty easily and there are numerous adjustments to zero in on.
The table has to be parallel to the same plane that the carriage rides on,
the blade has to lock in parallel or 90 degrees to the path of the
carriage. The arm has to lock in at 90 degrees to the fence to make a 90
degree cut and the fence is not always straight, once cut it can warp or
twist. It is imperative that you have flat straight stock when cross
cutting or you are going to have at least a little problem.
If you ever do rip with your RAS "remember" that you feed against the
rotation of the blade. While this sounds like common sense you can rip
from either side of the table. Typically for narrow stock you are on the
right side of the table with the motor pointing away from the arm column.
For wider rip capacity you can rip from the left side of the table but be
sure to rotate the motor so that it points towards the column arm. Keep
in mind that in this situation the stock needs to be wide so that you can
have room to push the stock through with out having the motor interfere.
Get any of those positions or steps backwards and you end up with a board
launcher.


You have mentioned the real deal killer for a RAS. Alignment. There are so
many things that have to be just right for a reasonable amount of accuracy.
It takes way too long to get it "just right".

Max

On 8/7/2011 7:39 PM, dpb wrote:
On 8/7/2011 7:58 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sun, 07 Aug 2011 19:51:46 GMT, (Doug
Miller)
wrote:
...

- If a RAS ever *does* kick back, the wood is thrown *away* from the
operator.

Not on a crosscut!
...

Horse pucky!

How can it be anything else unless one is standing behind the saw
instead at the operator location? The blade is rotating away and the
arm, motor and blade guard (as well as the kickback pawls--you _are_
using and have them set properly aren't you--I knew you were) prevent an
material from possibly going up and over and thereby towards the operator.

If anything, the carriage may try to accelerate, but holding a firm hold
on it is sufficient.

I've used the RAS for 30 years+ and never had even a hint of such a
thing as kickback of material, riding over a board or the other examples
cited.

I can only infer that most of these are very lightweight, small machines
that aren't rigid enough to prevent such things. Those might, indeed, as
Robotoy says, be worthy candidates for abolishing and since they have
little if any more capacity crosscut wise than the sliding miter saw if
that's all one is doing with one then may as well use them instead since
they now exist (as another said, that's a fairly recent development).

IMO a RAS should be nothing less than the 12"
DeWalt/Rockwell=Delta/Original Saw or similar; the little 10" things
from Sears are just too lightly built. I've the 16" Rockwell-Delta and
it's used extensively; primarily for roughing out large stock to length
but it rips much more conveniently than the TS as well for sizable
pieces; it's not as handy for taking a smidge off the edge.

But, they belong built into a long table so there's support both infeed
and outfeed and as such w/ a well constructed table they are both
effective and efficient as well as safe to operate.

In my early days, like Leon, it and a jointer were the only power tools
I had and it did everything from the rough outs to shaping and even
thickness planing w/ the rotary head attachment...also have a chain
mortiser attachment that works the cat's meow for larger end mortises
and particularly angles. A drill arbor on the rear shaft and it's great
for center drilling posts, etc, as well.

--

Agree with most of that, however:

My first RAS which lasted for 32 years was a 10" Monkey Ward universal
motor type. It was great, held alignment and did have the "climb" issue
until I figured how to set the rail bearings correctly (along with all
other adjustments)and started using the proper crosscut technique. It
did one rip kickback early on when I tried to cut a narrow piece of 1/4"
ply which came back like an arrow and peeled about half my thumb nail
off - healed up nicely without any after effects. It had a high speed
spindle which was great for overhead routing. I used it for rotary
surface planing, horizontal boring, disc and drum sanding and had a
variable speed router control that helped with some operations. It's
big drawback was the universal motor which probably accounts for the
current state of my hearing. Finally, the smoke all leaked out of it -
probably as a result of my incorrect replacement of brushes.

My current RAS is also a 10", but a Searz model. It is much quieter as
it doesn't have a universal motor. Contrary to Robo's critique of the
"control cut" feature, I have never had any incident as a result of it's
use. It's main problem is the "safety guard" with all the hangy down
things that make blade changing, deep cuts and miter adjustments a real
pain in the tookas. I'm considering removing those as the old RAS
worked fine without them.

The point about constant adjustments isn't a problem if the saw is set
up correctly and proper techniques are used - in other words not having
the motor climb or bind.

I use the table saw for what it does best and the RAS for what it does
best. I don't shake or tremble at the thought of eithers use, just make
sure all setup and technique is done with care.

On 8/7/2011 10:06 PM, Max wrote:
....

You have mentioned the real deal killer for a RAS. Alignment. There are
so many things that have to be just right for a reasonable amount of
accuracy. It takes way too long to get it "just right".
....

I've never had such issues; then again, I have one of the old large
(16") Rockwell-Delta's not the little home-store Sears/DeWalt/etc.

--

"Doug Winterburn" wrote

The point about constant adjustments isn't a problem if the saw is set
up correctly and proper techniques are used - in other words not having
the motor climb or bind.

I use the table saw for what it does best and the RAS for what it does
best. I don't shake or tremble at the thought of eithers use, just make
sure all setup and technique is done with care.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Amen to all that. I add that I will not rip on a RAS. Not with a table
saw, even a contractor saw or a panel guide saw sitting around.

-- Jim in NC

On 8/7/2011 11:11 PM, Morgans wrote:
....

Amen to all that. I add that I will not rip on a RAS. Not with a table
saw, even a contractor saw or a panel guide saw sitting around.
....

Leaving a good tool to go to waste, then...

--