I don't think I've seen many threads on drawing/sketching here.

A point of view I'm considering is that it's difficult to "design"
anything without being able to sketch. Thus I've developed some interest
in improving my skills in this area. For instance, I might like to
sketch some (bed) back boards to show my wife, or just for my own
amusement. I think that in woodworking that some sketching is
assumed--and while I think I can draw better than those who say they
"can't", I believe I have plenty of room to improve too!

I will distinguish here between "a sketch", "a formal design document
drawing",and "art". My interests also do not extend into color thus far.

There appear to be dozens of books with titles like "How To Draw XXX",
where XXX is horses, cartoons, people, ..., but (for some strangle
reason) none on "furniture"! ; ) Book suggestions welcome (I am
considering "How To Draw What You See"). Until yesterday I never tried
drawing with a graphite pencil softer than a regular #2.

Coincidentally, the newest issue of FWW, which arrived a few days ago,
contained an article encouraging "old fashioned formal drawing", on $38
paper (containing perspective lines...), using a a t-square and a
drawing board and addititional wasted $ for tracing equipment, etc..
IMO, I almost feel like the author should apologize in the next issue
and show how to do everything better, faster and cheaper on SketchUp!
Ironically, I wouldn't say SketchUp is for sketching as I have used the
term above.

Bill

On 6/13/2011 7:58 PM, Bill wrote:

I don't think I've seen many threads on drawing/sketching here.

A point of view I'm considering is that it's difficult to "design"
anything without being able to sketch. Thus I've developed some interest
in improving my skills in this area. For instance, I might like to
sketch some (bed) back boards to show my wife, or just for my own
amusement. I think that in woodworking that some sketching is
assumed--and while I think I can draw better than those who say they
"can't", I believe I have plenty of room to improve too!

I will distinguish here between "a sketch", "a formal design document
drawing",and "art". My interests also do not extend into color thus far.

There appear to be dozens of books with titles like "How To Draw XXX",
where XXX is horses, cartoons, people, ..., but (for some strangle
reason) none on "furniture"! ; ) Book suggestions welcome (I am
considering "How To Draw What You See"). Until yesterday I never tried
drawing with a graphite pencil softer than a regular #2.

Coincidentally, the newest issue of FWW, which arrived a few days ago,
contained an article encouraging "old fashioned formal drawing", on $38
paper (containing perspective lines...), using a a t-square and a
drawing board and addititional wasted $ for tracing equipment, etc..
IMO, I almost feel like the author should apologize in the next issue
and show how to do everything better, faster and cheaper on SketchUp!
Ironically, I wouldn't say SketchUp is for sketching as I have used the
term above.

Bill





I recall way back when I took drafting courses in school. Long before
computers, when drawings were done on a straight edged drawing board.
Add to that the t-square, right triangle, 30-60-90 triangle and the
scale. With those simple tools and the help of dividers and a bow
compass we could draw just about any thing. Even more interesting was
knowing how to draw a perfect elipse with a bow compass and triangles.

The first year class was very disciplined with lots of rules and lots of
lettering. The last quarter of that year we had to give up all the
tools except for the drawing board and pencil. All drawing till the
end of the year would be free hand. I was shocked as to how simple this
seamed and how accurate the drawings were considering every thing
appeared very close to scale.

On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 20:58:38 -0400, Bill wrote:


I don't think I've seen many threads on drawing/sketching here.

A point of view I'm considering is that it's difficult to "design"
anything without being able to sketch. Thus I've developed some interest
in improving my skills in this area. For instance, I might like to
sketch some (bed) back boards to show my wife, or just for my own
amusement. I think that in woodworking that some sketching is
assumed--and while I think I can draw better than those who say they
"can't", I believe I have plenty of room to improve too!

First, get a nice architectural drafting book like Frank Ching's
_Architectural Graphics_. I found a 1985 copy for a couple bucks.
The 2009 version is $18. Oh, ISBN.nu has the old version for $7.50.


I will distinguish here between "a sketch", "a formal design document
drawing",and "art". My interests also do not extend into color thus far.

Learning how to draw formal design documents will help you with your
sketching. Your pencil will automatically know where to go to start.



There appear to be dozens of books with titles like "How To Draw XXX",
where XXX is horses, cartoons, people, ..., but (for some strangle
reason) none on "furniture"! ; ) Book suggestions welcome (I am
considering "How To Draw What You See"). Until yesterday I never tried
drawing with a graphite pencil softer than a regular #2.

What do you know of perspective? Do you think in 2D or 3D?



Coincidentally, the newest issue of FWW, which arrived a few days ago,
contained an article encouraging "old fashioned formal drawing", on $38
paper (containing perspective lines...), using a a t-square and a
drawing board and addititional wasted $ for tracing equipment, etc..
IMO, I almost feel like the author should apologize in the next issue
and show how to do everything better, faster and cheaper on SketchUp!
Ironically, I wouldn't say SketchUp is for sketching as I have used the
term above.

Try some of these on for size. Watch for sparks:

http://goo.gl/7oJa0 freehand sketching

http://goo.gl/wGA8T design your own furniture (maybe not)

http://goo.gl/EPv6Y Bob Lang's _Shop Drawings for Craftsman Furniture_

http://isbn.nu/9789063692537 Sketching, the basics $$
It's so new, it's not even published yet.



--
You are today where your thoughts have brought you;
you will be tomorrow where your thoughts take you.
-- James Lane Allen

Leon wrote:
On 6/13/2011 7:58 PM, Bill wrote:

I don't think I've seen many threads on drawing/sketching here.

A point of view I'm considering is that it's difficult to "design"
anything without being able to sketch. Thus I've developed some interest
in improving my skills in this area. For instance, I might like to
sketch some (bed) back boards to show my wife, or just for my own
amusement. I think that in woodworking that some sketching is
assumed--and while I think I can draw better than those who say they
"can't", I believe I have plenty of room to improve too!

I will distinguish here between "a sketch", "a formal design document
drawing",and "art". My interests also do not extend into color thus far.

There appear to be dozens of books with titles like "How To Draw XXX",
where XXX is horses, cartoons, people, ..., but (for some strangle
reason) none on "furniture"! ; ) Book suggestions welcome (I am
considering "How To Draw What You See"). Until yesterday I never tried
drawing with a graphite pencil softer than a regular #2.

Coincidentally, the newest issue of FWW, which arrived a few days ago,
contained an article encouraging "old fashioned formal drawing", on $38
paper (containing perspective lines...), using a a t-square and a
drawing board and addititional wasted $ for tracing equipment, etc..
IMO, I almost feel like the author should apologize in the next issue
and show how to do everything better, faster and cheaper on SketchUp!
Ironically, I wouldn't say SketchUp is for sketching as I have used the
term above.

Bill





I recall way back when I took drafting courses in school. Long before
computers, when drawings were done on a straight edged drawing board.
Add to that the t-square, right triangle, 30-60-90 triangle and the
scale. With those simple tools and the help of dividers and a bow
compass we could draw just about any thing. Even more interesting was
knowing how to draw a perfect elipse with a bow compass and triangles.

The first year class was very disciplined with lots of rules and lots of
lettering. The last quarter of that year we had to give up all the tools
except for the drawing board and pencil. All drawing till the end of the
year would be free hand. I was shocked as to how simple this seamed and
how accurate the drawings were considering every thing appeared very
close to scale.


I did minimal drafting in woodshop and metalshop classes in high school.
My dad also had a drafting table set up at home for a few years before
that and I experimented by trying to copy a few schematic diagrams I saw
in a book (when I was about 13). I didn't have the discipline (or
guidance or expertise) at the time to draw the diagrams as neat as the
ones in the book. My dad was a civil engineer (though). I tried to read
"Popular Electronics" from the school library every month--that was some
of the "hardest reading" I did in those days. I believe Popular
Electronics folded into Byte magazine around 1980 or so.

Bill

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 20:58:38 -0400, wrote:


I don't think I've seen many threads on drawing/sketching here.

A point of view I'm considering is that it's difficult to "design"
anything without being able to sketch. Thus I've developed some interest
in improving my skills in this area. For instance, I might like to
sketch some (bed) back boards to show my wife, or just for my own
amusement. I think that in woodworking that some sketching is
assumed--and while I think I can draw better than those who say they
"can't", I believe I have plenty of room to improve too!

First, get a nice architectural drafting book like Frank Ching's
_Architectural Graphics_. I found a 1985 copy for a couple bucks.
The 2009 version is $18. Oh, ISBN.nu has the old version for $7.50.


Looks interesting. Thanks!



I will distinguish here between "a sketch", "a formal design document
drawing",and "art". My interests also do not extend into color thus far.

Learning how to draw formal design documents will help you with your
sketching. Your pencil will automatically know where to go to start.

I believe you, but it seems like one should make several sketches before
drawing a formal design document. One of the things I noticed in
browsing what I could of the book Architectural Graphics were the
mention of different *types* of drawings. That seems to me like what is
missing from, or could complement, a typical sketch that I might make.





There appear to be dozens of books with titles like "How To Draw XXX",
where XXX is horses, cartoons, people, ..., but (for some strangle
reason) none on "furniture"! ; ) Book suggestions welcome (I am
considering "How To Draw What You See"). Until yesterday I never tried
drawing with a graphite pencil softer than a regular #2.

What do you know of perspective? Do you think in 2D or 3D?

I know to include a "view point" and draw the edges, of say a piece of
lumber, toward it. I was hoping to expand my "shading" skills.


On a scale of 1-10 for a non-engineer my sketching is probably a 6 or 7.
I think my sketching would look poor compared to that of an engineer.
Maybe we should "Draw Blinky"? : )






I saved a copy of all of these and I will visit them. Thanks!

Try some of these on for size. Watch for sparks:

http://goo.gl/7oJa0 freehand sketching

http://goo.gl/wGA8T design your own furniture (maybe not)

http://goo.gl/EPv6Y Bob Lang's _Shop Drawings for Craftsman Furniture_

http://isbn.nu/9789063692537 Sketching, the basics $$
It's so new, it's not even published yet.



--
You are today where your thoughts have brought you;
you will be tomorrow where your thoughts take you.
-- James Lane Allen

On 6/13/2011 9:22 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 20:58:38 -0400, wrote:


I don't think I've seen many threads on drawing/sketching here.

A point of view I'm considering is that it's difficult to "design"
anything without being able to sketch. Thus I've developed some interest
in improving my skills in this area. For instance, I might like to
sketch some (bed) back boards to show my wife, or just for my own
amusement. I think that in woodworking that some sketching is
assumed--and while I think I can draw better than those who say they
"can't", I believe I have plenty of room to improve too!

First, get a nice architectural drafting book like Frank Ching's
_Architectural Graphics_. I found a 1985 copy for a couple bucks.
The 2009 version is $18. Oh, ISBN.nu has the old version for $7.50.

I will distinguish here between "a sketch", "a formal design document
drawing",and "art". My interests also do not extend into color thus far.

Learning how to draw formal design documents will help you with your
sketching. Your pencil will automatically know where to go to start.

Strange phenomenon, may be not as practice makes perfect. I also found
that my script hand writing improved dramatically as a result from all
the structured lettering required in the mechanical and architectural
classes.

On 6/13/2011 11:40 PM, Bill wrote:
Larry Jaques wrote:



I will distinguish here between "a sketch", "a formal design document
drawing",and "art". My interests also do not extend into color thus far.

Learning how to draw formal design documents will help you with your
sketching. Your pencil will automatically know where to go to start.

I believe you, but it seems like one should make several sketches before
drawing a formal design document. One of the things I noticed in
browsing what I could of the book Architectural Graphics were the
mention of different *types* of drawings. That seems to me like what is
missing from, or could complement, a typical sketch that I might make.


Actually you start off with simple mechanical drawings, drafting is a
very strict style of drawing with lots of tricks and rules.
We never sketched anything in preparation of drawing what would be the
finished drawing. The drawing required preparation so that it would be
centered properly on the sheet of paper. Basically you started with
determining the over all size of the object being drawn and that gave
you a starting point for each view. I don't recall the formula but
there was on used to center isometric drawings on the sheet.

And as Larry has indicated once you have done a load of those properly
structured drawings, sketching free hand seems to come naturally. You
develope a very keen eye for things that stick out in a tool assisted
mechanical drawing which dont look right. You find your self comparing
lines that should be parallel or perpendicular. As you start sketching
you do the same thing and quickly make corrections as you sketch those
lines.









There appear to be dozens of books with titles like "How To Draw XXX",
where XXX is horses, cartoons, people, ..., but (for some strangle
reason) none on "furniture"! ; ) Book suggestions welcome (I am
considering "How To Draw What You See"). Until yesterday I never tried
drawing with a graphite pencil softer than a regular #2.

What do you know of perspective? Do you think in 2D or 3D?

I know to include a "view point" and draw the edges, of say a piece of
lumber, toward it. I was hoping to expand my "shading" skills.


On a scale of 1-10 for a non-engineer my sketching is probably a 6 or 7.
I think my sketching would look poor compared to that of an engineer.
Maybe we should "Draw Blinky"? : )






I saved a copy of all of these and I will visit them. Thanks!

Try some of these on for size. Watch for sparks:

http://goo.gl/7oJa0 freehand sketching

http://goo.gl/wGA8T design your own furniture (maybe not)

http://goo.gl/EPv6Y Bob Lang's _Shop Drawings for Craftsman Furniture_

http://isbn.nu/9789063692537 Sketching, the basics $$
It's so new, it's not even published yet.



--
You are today where your thoughts have brought you;
you will be tomorrow where your thoughts take you.
-- James Lane Allen

On 6/13/2011 10:54 PM, Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:




I recall way back when I took drafting courses in school. Long before
computers, when drawings were done on a straight edged drawing board.
Add to that the t-square, right triangle, 30-60-90 triangle and the
scale. With those simple tools and the help of dividers and a bow
compass we could draw just about any thing. Even more interesting was
knowing how to draw a perfect elipse with a bow compass and triangles.

The first year class was very disciplined with lots of rules and lots of
lettering. The last quarter of that year we had to give up all the tools
except for the drawing board and pencil. All drawing till the end of the
year would be free hand. I was shocked as to how simple this seamed and
how accurate the drawings were considering every thing appeared very
close to scale.


I did minimal drafting in woodshop and metalshop classes in high school.
My dad also had a drafting table set up at home for a few years before
that and I experimented by trying to copy a few schematic diagrams I saw
in a book (when I was about 13). I didn't have the discipline (or
guidance or expertise) at the time to draw the diagrams as neat as the
ones in the book. My dad was a civil engineer (though). I tried to read
"Popular Electronics" from the school library every month--that was some
of the "hardest reading" I did in those days. I believe Popular
Electronics folded into Byte magazine around 1980 or so.


I recall drafting/mechanical drawing in shop too. Formal drafting is
considerably more disciplined. In drafting class we were never allowed
to copy anything already drawn. We had to use real objects for our
drawings. We had to hold the objects, measure them. etc.
To be good at mechanical drawings you have to be some what AR. ;~) I
have loosened up some what over the years and have been using CAD since
the mid 80's. My sketching, printing, hand writing has gone to the dogs.

On Tue, 14 Jun 2011 07:06:27 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 6/13/2011 9:22 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 20:58:38 -0400, wrote:


I don't think I've seen many threads on drawing/sketching here.

A point of view I'm considering is that it's difficult to "design"
anything without being able to sketch. Thus I've developed some interest
in improving my skills in this area. For instance, I might like to
sketch some (bed) back boards to show my wife, or just for my own
amusement. I think that in woodworking that some sketching is
assumed--and while I think I can draw better than those who say they
"can't", I believe I have plenty of room to improve too!

First, get a nice architectural drafting book like Frank Ching's
_Architectural Graphics_. I found a 1985 copy for a couple bucks.
The 2009 version is $18. Oh, ISBN.nu has the old version for $7.50.

I will distinguish here between "a sketch", "a formal design document
drawing",and "art". My interests also do not extend into color thus far.

Learning how to draw formal design documents will help you with your
sketching. Your pencil will automatically know where to go to start.

Strange phenomenon, may be not as practice makes perfect. I also found
that my script hand writing improved dramatically as a result from all
the structured lettering required in the mechanical and architectural
classes.

Whoa! Mine sure didn't. I was born left-handed and teachers tried to
"fix" me. The last teacher who tried that had her ass reamed by Mom
after she put me in a metal hand brace to hold the pencil. I was so
frustrated when I got home I was still crying. Mom fixed her wagon.

Anywho, after that, the only thing I wrote in cursive script was my
signature. Everything else is block. When I write script, I tend to
squeeze the writing instrument into submission, smearing lead or ink
all over the page, still thinking about that damned teacher and her
metal brace.


--
To know the road ahead, ask those coming back.
-- Chinese Proverb

On Tue, 14 Jun 2011 07:16:43 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 6/13/2011 11:40 PM, Bill wrote:
Larry Jaques wrote:



I will distinguish here between "a sketch", "a formal design document
drawing",and "art". My interests also do not extend into color thus far.

Learning how to draw formal design documents will help you with your
sketching. Your pencil will automatically know where to go to start.

I believe you, but it seems like one should make several sketches before
drawing a formal design document. One of the things I noticed in
browsing what I could of the book Architectural Graphics were the
mention of different *types* of drawings. That seems to me like what is
missing from, or could complement, a typical sketch that I might make.


Actually you start off with simple mechanical drawings, drafting is a
very strict style of drawing with lots of tricks and rules.
We never sketched anything in preparation of drawing what would be the
finished drawing. The drawing required preparation so that it would be
centered properly on the sheet of paper. Basically you started with
determining the over all size of the object being drawn and that gave
you a starting point for each view. I don't recall the formula but
there was on used to center isometric drawings on the sheet.

Yes, that might be better for him.
http://goo.gl/5Bg8I fi dollah, delivered.
From the Seventies, before things got hosed in schools.


And as Larry has indicated once you have done a load of those properly
structured drawings, sketching free hand seems to come naturally. You
develope a very keen eye for things that stick out in a tool assisted
mechanical drawing which dont look right. You find your self comparing
lines that should be parallel or perpendicular. As you start sketching
you do the same thing and quickly make corrections as you sketch those
lines.

Right, you learn how things are supposed to look from whatever
perspective, and then sketch them in an emulation of the more formal
drawing.

--
To know the road ahead, ask those coming back.
-- Chinese Proverb

Snip

Coincidentally, the newest issue of FWW, which arrived a few days ago,
contained an article encouraging "old fashioned formal drawing", on $38
paper (containing perspective lines...), using a a t-square and a
drawing board and addititional wasted $ for tracing equipment, etc..
IMO, I almost feel like the author should apologize in the next issue
and show how to do everything better, faster and cheaper on SketchUp!
Ironically, I wouldn't say SketchUp is for sketching as I have used the
term above.

Bill





I recall way back when I took drafting courses in school. Long before
computers, when drawings were done on a straight edged drawing board.
Add to that the t-square, right triangle, 30-60-90 triangle and the
scale. With those simple tools and the help of dividers and a bow
compass we could draw just about any thing. Even more interesting was
knowing how to draw a perfect elipse with a bow compass and triangles.

The first year class was very disciplined with lots of rules and lots of
lettering. The last quarter of that year we had to give up all the tools
except for the drawing board and pencil. All drawing till the end of the
year would be free hand. I was shocked as to how simple this seamed and
how accurate the drawings were considering every thing appeared very
close to scale.


I did minimal drafting in woodshop and metalshop classes in high school.
My dad also had a drafting table set up at home for a few years before
that and I experimented by trying to copy a few schematic diagrams I saw
in a book (when I was about 13). I didn't have the discipline (or guidance
or expertise) at the time to draw the diagrams as neat as the ones in the
book. My dad was a civil engineer (though). I tried to read "Popular
Electronics" from the school library every month--that was some of the
"hardest reading" I did in those days. I believe Popular Electronics
folded into Byte magazine around 1980 or so.

Bill

I still have my tools and drafting board from high school class in 1943.
Still use them. At my age the computer programs are tough for me to
comprehend. I also block print instead of curser. A couple weeks ago our
grand daughter, eight years old saw me printing something that had the
number 8. She informed me I did not know how to make an 8. I make it with 2
little circles, same as on the keyboard I am using. She of course uses the
curser as taught in school . Also Bill, I have many years of Popular
Electronics magazines. WW

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2011 07:16:43 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 6/13/2011 11:40 PM, Bill wrote:
Larry Jaques wrote:



I will distinguish here between "a sketch", "a formal design document
drawing",and "art". My interests also do not extend into color thus far.

Learning how to draw formal design documents will help you with your
sketching. Your pencil will automatically know where to go to start.

I believe you, but it seems like one should make several sketches before
drawing a formal design document. One of the things I noticed in
browsing what I could of the book Architectural Graphics were the
mention of different *types* of drawings. That seems to me like what is
missing from, or could complement, a typical sketch that I might make.


Actually you start off with simple mechanical drawings, drafting is a
very strict style of drawing with lots of tricks and rules.
We never sketched anything in preparation of drawing what would be the
finished drawing. The drawing required preparation so that it would be
centered properly on the sheet of paper. Basically you started with
determining the over all size of the object being drawn and that gave
you a starting point for each view. I don't recall the formula but
there was on used to center isometric drawings on the sheet.

Yes, that might be better for him.
http://goo.gl/5Bg8I fi dollah, delivered.
From the Seventies, before things got hosed in schools.


Looks like that may be a suitable book.




And as Larry has indicated once you have done a load of those properly
structured drawings, sketching free hand seems to come naturally. You
develope a very keen eye for things that stick out in a tool assisted
mechanical drawing which dont look right. You find your self comparing
lines that should be parallel or perpendicular. As you start sketching
you do the same thing and quickly make corrections as you sketch those
lines.

Right, you learn how things are supposed to look from whatever
perspective, and then sketch them in an emulation of the more formal
drawing.

I understand. I should be grateful for the artistic skills I have--even
though they aren't honed with the sort of precision Leon described
("drafting is a very strict style of drawing with lots of tricks and
rules...") I think I will keep practicing as opportunities present
themselves. I now have a pad and pencils nearby. I was hoping for
structured exercises, and I'm sure to find some in the book you
suggested--though I'm sure it's rather the T-square/drafting table
approach. My original intention was to let SketchUp pick up where my
"sketches" leave off. I'll try to balance my strategy with what you and
Leon are suggesting. Perhaps by getting the book you linked to above or
similar.
When I started this thread I was asking how I might go about learning to
"sketch" better. I understand that learning to do formal drawings will
help my sketching. Maybe I can learn some of the theories and apply it
to my sketching and reduce the "overhead"? %) Becoming acquainted
with the theories are will be a good start! I've got my dad's rules,
triangles, and compasses just a feet away--oh, and the slide rule too!!!
Might be handy if I wish to sketch a "spring-pole lathe"-ala Roy
Underhill. I need to be careful what I put on my plate so I don't
burst!--lol.

By the way, the drill press baseboard (with wheels and legs) is
complete. I "just" need to assemble the DP on top of it. I will try to
assemble it on the ground and lift it up. Admittedly, it's been
intimidating me for a few days...my wife underwent some surgery too, but
I accept responsibility for the delay. I need to take full advantage
now of the currently ideal weather! I can practice drawing snowmen in
the winter, to spec.!

Bill

WW wrote:

I still have my tools and drafting board from high school class in 1943.
Still use them. At my age the computer programs are tough for me to
comprehend. I also block print instead of curser. A couple weeks ago our
grand daughter, eight years old saw me printing something that had the
number 8. She informed me I did not know how to make an 8. I make it with 2
little circles, same as on the keyboard I am using. She of course uses the
curser as taught in school . Also Bill, I have many years of Popular
Electronics magazines. WW

Small world, my teachers got after me when I was about 8 for not writing
8 the cursive way too. My school shop teachers insisted on block
printing even in things like material lists. If there's a lesson there,
it must be that it's hard to please everyone! By the way, the article I
mentioned earlier was written by Michael Fortune, and I'm no one to
2nd-guess him!

Bill

Bill wrote:
WW wrote:

I still have my tools and drafting board from high school class in 1943.
Still use them. At my age the computer programs are tough for me to
comprehend. I also block print instead of curser. A couple weeks ago our
grand daughter, eight years old saw me printing something that had the
number 8. She informed me I did not know how to make an 8. I make it
with 2
little circles, same as on the keyboard I am using. She of course
uses the
curser as taught in school . Also Bill, I have many years of Popular
Electronics magazines. WW

Small world, my teachers got after me when I was about 8 for not writing
8 the cursive way too. My school shop teachers insisted on block
printing even in things like material lists. If there's a lesson there,
it must be that it's hard to please everyone! By the way, the article I
mentioned earlier was written by Michael Fortune, and I'm no one to
2nd-guess him!

Bill

Here are some relevant comments about Michael Fortune from the FWW website:

snip Michael Fortune has designed and built furniture for clients
across the continent for more than 30 years. He is one of Canada's most
acclaimed contemporary furniture masters. A key to Michael's success as
a designer/builder is his sketchbook, where he brainstorms and refines
ideas before committing to a more detailed illustration of a final
design. His old, dog-eared sketchbooks are also a reservoir of new
ideas. snip

His approach, as described briefly above, seems "natural" to me.

Bill

On Jun 13, 8:58*pm, Bill wrote:
I don't think I've seen many threads on drawing/sketching here.

A point of view I'm considering is that it's difficult to "design"
anything without being able to sketch. Thus I've developed some interest
in improving my skills in this area. For instance, I might like to
sketch some (bed) back boards to show my wife, or just for my own
amusement. *I think that in woodworking that some sketching is
assumed--and while I think I can draw better than those who say they
"can't", I believe I have plenty of room to improve too!

I will distinguish here between "a sketch", "a formal design document
drawing",and "art". My interests also do not extend into color thus far.

There appear to be dozens of books with titles like "How To Draw XXX",
where XXX is horses, cartoons, people, ..., but (for some strangle
reason) none on "furniture"! *; ) *Book suggestions welcome (I am
considering "How To Draw What You See"). Until yesterday I never tried
drawing with a graphite pencil softer than a regular #2.

Coincidentally, the newest issue of FWW, which arrived a few days ago,
contained an article encouraging "old fashioned formal drawing", on $38
paper (containing perspective lines...), using a a t-square and a
drawing board and addititional wasted $ for tracing equipment, etc..
IMO, I almost feel like the author should apologize in the next issue
and show how to do everything better, faster and cheaper on SketchUp!
Ironically, I wouldn't say SketchUp is for sketching as I have used the
term above.

Bill

I'm a bit late to the party, but before computers became affordable, I
did a lot 3D drawings, to scale, using "Lawson Charts"
They were a little tricky at the beginning, but once it 'clicked',
they were easy to use and the results spectacular.
I created a couple of designs for which I needed funding, and the
powers at be, the guys with their chequebooks didn't 'get' what I was
trying to show them... till they saw it 3D.
It is basically a series of charts with different vanishing points and
angles of view, over which you lay your vellum or acetate (my
preference was to draw on acetate).
Google and you will get lots of info on those charts. They are
everywhere and cheap.
Here's some on Amazon:
http://tinyurl.com/3zzpd3e

On 6/14/2011 1:16 PM, Bill wrote:

acclaimed contemporary furniture masters. A key to Michael's success as
a designer/builder is his sketchbook, where he brainstorms and refines
ideas before committing to a more detailed illustration of a final
design. His old, dog-eared sketchbooks are also a reservoir of new
ideas. snip

His approach, as described briefly above, seems "natural" to me.

My "sketchbook" just happens to be on my hard drive, where I
"brainstorm, and refine ideas before committing to ... a final design".

I just use a mouse ... a pencil/pen slows me down.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On 6/14/2011 9:09 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:

Whoa! Mine sure didn't. I was born left-handed and teachers tried to
"fix" me. The last teacher who tried that had her ass reamed by Mom
after she put me in a metal hand brace to hold the pencil. I was so
frustrated when I got home I was still crying. Mom fixed her wagon.

A teacher made my left-handed daughter write right-handed. Upshot is
that she is basically now ambidextrous with regard to most tasks.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

Swingman wrote:

On 6/14/2011 9:09 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:

Whoa! Mine sure didn't. I was born left-handed and teachers tried to
"fix" me. The last teacher who tried that had her ass reamed by Mom
after she put me in a metal hand brace to hold the pencil. I was so
frustrated when I got home I was still crying. Mom fixed her wagon.


A teacher made my left-handed daughter write right-handed. Upshot is
that she is basically now ambidextrous with regard to most tasks.


Similar misguided teacher but even worse--this one wanted all the
tablets lined up the same way on the desks as she looked at them so
forced me from the correct way as left-handed to the upside-down crabbed
thing one sees fairly often w/ those who aren't taught correctly.

Still suffer from it--by time Mom figure out what was going on, I was
seemingly beyond recovery despite having tried to break the habit over
the years.

I'm pretty much ambidextrous--throw righty, write/eat lefty. Tore up
shoulder in HS b-ball and taught self to write righty enough to get by
until it healed enough to begin to use again...

--

On Tue, 14 Jun 2011 13:37:29 -0400, Bill wrote:

When I started this thread I was asking how I might go about learning to
"sketch" better. I understand that learning to do formal drawings will
help my sketching. Maybe I can learn some of the theories and apply it
to my sketching and reduce the "overhead"? %) Becoming acquainted
with the theories are will be a good start! I've got my dad's rules,
triangles, and compasses just a feet away--oh, and the slide rule too!!!

Reduce the overhead. Right. Be sure to overthink it. It's critical at
this point, lad.


Might be handy if I wish to sketch a "spring-pole lathe"-ala Roy
Underhill. I need to be careful what I put on my plate so I don't
burst!--lol.

Uh, yeah.


By the way, the drill press baseboard (with wheels and legs) is
complete. I "just" need to assemble the DP on top of it. I will try to
assemble it on the ground and lift it up. Admittedly, it's been
intimidating me for a few days...my wife underwent some surgery too, but
I accept responsibility for the delay. I need to take full advantage
now of the currently ideal weather! I can practice drawing snowmen in
the winter, to spec.!

Hey, hey hey. Save those detailed jobs for later on, once you have a
feel for this drawing/sketching thing, OK?

--
To know the road ahead, ask those coming back.
-- Chinese Proverb

On Tue, 14 Jun 2011 14:04:57 -0400, Bill wrote:

WW wrote:

I still have my tools and drafting board from high school class in 1943.
Still use them. At my age the computer programs are tough for me to
comprehend. I also block print instead of curser. A couple weeks ago our
grand daughter, eight years old saw me printing something that had the
number 8. She informed me I did not know how to make an 8. I make it with 2
little circles, same as on the keyboard I am using. She of course uses the
curser as taught in school . Also Bill, I have many years of Popular
Electronics magazines. WW

Small world, my teachers got after me when I was about 8 for not writing
8 the cursive way too. My school shop teachers insisted on block
printing even in things like material lists. If there's a lesson there,
it must be that it's hard to please everyone! By the way, the article I
mentioned earlier was written by Michael Fortune, and I'm no one to
2nd-guess him!

Remember, Grasshoppa, just because someone is writing for a magazine
does not make them a Master, and one way is not the only way. Look at
the vast theoretical and practical differences between the finish
masters Jewitt, Dresdner, and Flexner. Compare Lord Roy and that
plaid-shirted clown with the funny accent. gd&r

--
To know the road ahead, ask those coming back.
-- Chinese Proverb

On Tue, 14 Jun 2011 16:09:35 -0500, Swingman wrote:

On 6/14/2011 9:09 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:

Whoa! Mine sure didn't. I was born left-handed and teachers tried to
"fix" me. The last teacher who tried that had her ass reamed by Mom
after she put me in a metal hand brace to hold the pencil. I was so
frustrated when I got home I was still crying. Mom fixed her wagon.

A teacher made my left-handed daughter write right-handed. Upshot is
that she is basically now ambidextrous with regard to most tasks.

It's good that she handled it well. Ambidexterity is a _definite_
bonus in life. As a mechanic, I had to learn how to thread a nut onto
a bolt upside down, offhanded, and out of sight, while holding the
flange with one finger, the washer with another, and the nut with the
other two. One learns to think in 3 dimensions after doing a couple of
those types of projects. It's great. I hope you encourage your girl
to go for it!

--
To know the road ahead, ask those coming back.
-- Chinese Proverb

Larry Jaques wrote:

Hey, hey hey. Save those detailed jobs for later on, once you have a
feel for this drawing/sketching thing, OK?


I just returned from the used book store. There was not a (suitable)
mechanical drawing book in the place. I did examine a book containing
designs of woodworking projects. Looking at the drawings it contained
made me appreciate much better the connection to mechanical drawing that
you, Leon and Lew have been advocating. Many of the other drawing books
had drawings of naked people in them without even one piece of
furniture--let alone dove tail joinery! Someone told me that in college
that the engineering students and the art students were on completely
different parts of campus. That it was like 2 different worlds. Having
examined the drawing books for myself, I understand that facts all that
much better now... : )

Thanks all for the drawing lesson!

Bill

On Jun 13, 7:58*pm, Bill wrote:
I don't think I've seen many threads on drawing/sketching here.

A point of view I'm considering is that it's difficult to "design"
anything without being able to sketch. Thus I've developed some interest
in improving my skills in this area. For instance, I might like to
sketch some (bed) back boards to show my wife, or just for my own
amusement. *I think that in woodworking that some sketching is
assumed--and while I think I can draw better than those who say they
"can't", I believe I have plenty of room to improve too!

I will distinguish here between "a sketch", "a formal design document
drawing",and "art". My interests also do not extend into color thus far.

There appear to be dozens of books with titles like "How To Draw XXX",
where XXX is horses, cartoons, people, ..., but (for some strangle
reason) none on "furniture"! *; ) *Book suggestions welcome (I am
considering "How To Draw What You See"). Until yesterday I never tried
drawing with a graphite pencil softer than a regular #2.

Coincidentally, the newest issue of FWW, which arrived a few days ago,
contained an article encouraging "old fashioned formal drawing", on $38
paper (containing perspective lines...), using a a t-square and a
drawing board and addititional wasted $ for tracing equipment, etc..
IMO, I almost feel like the author should apologize in the next issue
and show how to do everything better, faster and cheaper on SketchUp!
Ironically, I wouldn't say SketchUp is for sketching as I have used the
term above.

Bill

There are a lot of good books on drafting and the one I would
recommend, if you can find one, is "Engineering Drawing" by French and
Verick (sp). I went through a pretty intensive two year course in
Design Technology during the mid 1960's and this was the bible for
drafting. This was board drafting with drafting machines or parallel
bars, triangles, instruments, etc. I later went through company-
sponsored courses in CAD and CATIA. The heart of understanding
drafting, and creation of working drawings, is the understanding and
practice of orthographic projection. I'll draw fire for this, but
most of the young draftsmen and engineers who go through drafting
today have no Idea what projection is. You have to control the
layout, but the machine does most of the projection for you. Learning
the basics of projection will give you a much better idea of how, and
why, the various sides of an object relate.

I do shop sketches for most of my bigger projects on a drawing board
in the basement that is equipped with an old, very stable parallel
bar. I don't develop fancy drawings. Most of the shop sketches are
on par with what we might call conceptual layouts; and my quality
would probably drive my old instructors nuts. I am not even tempted
to acquire a CAD package or even use Sketchup. I get a much better
idea of how a cabinet or other project will fit together by thinking
it through on the table.

Side Note: It used to drive my wife nuts when she would ask how big
something was and I would hold my fingers apart and say 3-1/2"
inches. She would respond that isn't 3-1/2"! I would hold the pose
until she got a ruler and was usually pretty darned close. After
several years on the drafting table, doing aircraft drawings by hand,
I developed a pretty good micrometer eyeball. I have been off of the
board for about 25-30 years but I still have a pretty good eye for
sizes in the 0-36" range.

RonB

On 6/14/2011 6:33 PM, RonB wrote:

Side Note: It used to drive my wife nuts when she would ask how big
something was and I would hold my fingers apart and say 3-1/2"
inches. She would respond that isn't 3-1/2"! I would hold the pose
until she got a ruler and was usually pretty darned close. After
several years on the drafting table, doing aircraft drawings by hand,
I developed a pretty good micrometer eyeball. I have been off of the
board for about 25-30 years but I still have a pretty good eye for
sizes in the 0-36" range.

For some reason I'm that ways with thicknesses ... I can generally tell
in a photo how thick a table top, leg, etc. is ... and am seldom off by
an 1/8" in real life, but totally miss the boat with metric.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

Swingman wrote in news:bu-
:

For some reason I'm that ways with thicknesses ... I can generally tell
in a photo how thick a table top, leg, etc. is ... and am seldom off by
an 1/8" in real life, but totally miss the boat with metric.

Every eighth of an inch is 3 mm; an inch is 2.54 cm; a foot is 30 cm; a
yard 90 cm; a mile is a lot.

(in dutch speak)

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On 6/14/2011 6:56 PM, Han wrote:
wrote in news:bu-
:

For some reason I'm that ways with thicknesses ... I can generally tell
in a photo how thick a table top, leg, etc. is ... and am seldom off by
an 1/8" in real life, but totally miss the boat with metric.

Every eighth of an inch is 3 mm; an inch is 2.54 cm; a foot is 30 cm; a
yard 90 cm; a mile is a lot.

(in dutch speak)


LOL ... there's an app for that!

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On 6/14/2011 6:56 PM, Han wrote:
wrote in news:bu-
:

For some reason I'm that ways with thicknesses ... I can generally tell
in a photo how thick a table top, leg, etc. is ... and am seldom off by
an 1/8" in real life, but totally miss the boat with metric.

Every eighth of an inch is 3 mm; an inch is 2.54 cm; a foot is 30 cm; a
yard 90 cm; a mile is a lot.

(in dutch speak)

Seems most of the Festool stuff is incremented in mm.

I have a Calculated Industries construction calculator on both my
DroidX, and the real thing in the shop, that I'm continually inputting
the likes of 21 3/16" to give me 538.1625mm to set my parallel guide
rails when cutting sheet goods to size.

I'm good to go ... as long as the electrons are flowing.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

RonB wrote:

There are a lot of good books on drafting and the one I would
recommend, if you can find one, is "Engineering Drawing" by French and
Verick (sp).

Thanks RonB. I just ordered the 1966 edition for $6.94 including S&H.
Newer editions ceded to graphing technology, and I don't wish to read
about 1970s graphing technology! : ) Thank you for the suggestion;
based upon your experience with it, I'm sure I'll enjoy it. I may need
to assemble a make-shift drafting table...

I hope Larry appreciates that I just dug deep and made the purchase
instead of hemming and hawing and "over thinking" it! ; )

Bill


I went through a pretty intensive two year course in
Design Technology during the mid 1960's and this was the bible for
drafting. This was board drafting with drafting machines or parallel
bars, triangles, instruments, etc. I later went through company-
sponsored courses in CAD and CATIA. The heart of understanding
drafting, and creation of working drawings, is the understanding and
practice of orthographic projection.
I'll draw fire for this, but
most of the young draftsmen and engineers who go through drafting
today have no Idea what projection is. You have to control the
layout, but the machine does most of the projection for you. Learning
the basics of projection will give you a much better idea of how, and
why, the various sides of an object relate.

I do shop sketches for most of my bigger projects on a drawing board
in the basement that is equipped with an old, very stable parallel
bar. I don't develop fancy drawings. Most of the shop sketches are
on par with what we might call conceptual layouts; and my quality
would probably drive my old instructors nuts. I am not even tempted
to acquire a CAD package or even use Sketchup. I get a much better
idea of how a cabinet or other project will fit together by thinking
it through on the table.

Side Note: It used to drive my wife nuts when she would ask how big
something was and I would hold my fingers apart and say 3-1/2"
inches. She would respond that isn't 3-1/2"! I would hold the pose
until she got a ruler and was usually pretty darned close. After
several years on the drafting table, doing aircraft drawings by hand,
I developed a pretty good micrometer eyeball. I have been off of the
board for about 25-30 years but I still have a pretty good eye for
sizes in the 0-36" range.

RonB

On Tue, 14 Jun 2011 18:29:53 -0400, Bill wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:

Hey, hey hey. Save those detailed jobs for later on, once you have a
feel for this drawing/sketching thing, OK?


I just returned from the used book store. There was not a (suitable)
mechanical drawing book in the place.

I would't expect there to be. Free and cheap CAD programs took over
nearly thirty years ago.


I did examine a book containing
designs of woodworking projects. Looking at the drawings it contained
made me appreciate much better the connection to mechanical drawing that
you, Leon and Lew have been advocating. Many of the other drawing books
had drawings of naked people in them without even one piece of
furniture--let alone dove tail joinery!

Misogynists and Chauvinists could have detected same in those books.
shameful grin


Someone told me that in college
that the engineering students and the art students were on completely
different parts of campus. That it was like 2 different worlds. Having
examined the drawing books for myself, I understand that facts all that
much better now... : )

Indeed. Engineering students are concerned with function while art
students are concerned only with form, to the exclusion of function.


Thanks all for the drawing lesson!

Jewelcome.

--
To know the road ahead, ask those coming back.
-- Chinese Proverb

On Tue, 14 Jun 2011 18:43:09 -0500, Swingman wrote:

On 6/14/2011 6:33 PM, RonB wrote:

Side Note: It used to drive my wife nuts when she would ask how big
something was and I would hold my fingers apart and say 3-1/2"
inches. She would respond that isn't 3-1/2"! I would hold the pose
until she got a ruler and was usually pretty darned close. After
several years on the drafting table, doing aircraft drawings by hand,
I developed a pretty good micrometer eyeball. I have been off of the
board for about 25-30 years but I still have a pretty good eye for
sizes in the 0-36" range.

For some reason I'm that ways with thicknesses ... I can generally tell
in a photo how thick a table top, leg, etc. is ... and am seldom off by
an 1/8" in real life, but totally miss the boat with metric.

You're not good with those _big_ numbers, eh, Swingy?

I was a lot better with sizes when I had to wrench bolts all day every
day. My eyes were in dial caliper mode, I think. Ditto when I was
working as a QA inspector and had a surface plate in front of me at
least part of every week.

--
To know the road ahead, ask those coming back.
-- Chinese Proverb

On Tue, 14 Jun 2011 20:21:33 -0400, Bill wrote:

RonB wrote:

There are a lot of good books on drafting and the one I would
recommend, if you can find one, is "Engineering Drawing" by French and
Verick (sp).

Thanks RonB. I just ordered the 1966 edition for $6.94 including S&H.
Newer editions ceded to graphing technology, and I don't wish to read
about 1970s graphing technology! : ) Thank you for the suggestion;
based upon your experience with it, I'm sure I'll enjoy it. I may need
to assemble a make-shift drafting table...

I hope Larry appreciates that I just dug deep and made the purchase
instead of hemming and hawing and "over thinking" it! ; )

Sacre bleu! Not only am I stunned, but I have a neener:
I found it for a PENNY on Amazon.

Congrats. I hope you and Ron see things the same way, draftwise.

--
To know the road ahead, ask those coming back.
-- Chinese Proverb

Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:


Actually you start off with simple mechanical drawings, drafting is a
very strict style of drawing with lots of tricks and rules.
We never sketched anything in preparation of drawing what would be the
finished drawing. The drawing required preparation so that it would
be centered properly on the sheet of paper. Basically you started
with determining the over all size of the object being drawn and that
gave you a starting point for each view. I don't recall the formula
but there was on used to center isometric drawings on the sheet.

And as Larry has indicated once you have done a load of those properly
structured drawings, sketching free hand seems to come naturally. You
develope a very keen eye for things that stick out in a tool assisted
mechanical drawing which dont look right. You find your self
comparing lines that should be parallel or perpendicular. As you
start sketching you do the same thing and quickly make corrections as
you sketch those lines.


My experience agrees with this. I spend quite a bit of my planning time
sketching things based on what little I learned in high school about
drafting. I keep a spiral bound notebook around the shop so I can have
something to draw/sketch/figure on. (Other than the workbench. ;-))

Often, I'll only bother with showing the interesting (complicated) part
of the piece I'm working on. No need to show the joinery on all four
corners when it's all the same.

Puckdropper

Larry Jaques wrote:

By the way, the drill press baseboard (with wheels and legs) is
complete. I "just" need to assemble the DP on top of it.


Hey, hey hey. Save those detailed jobs for later on, once you have a
feel for this drawing/sketching thing, OK?

--
To know the road ahead, ask those coming back.
-- Chinese Proverb


Larry, Well, I got the DP installed on the base board up to the point in
the instructions where two people are required to lift the head on the
pole. I'll try to find a willing victim--I mean helper, tomorrow.
Progress is good.

Bill

On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 03:04:36 -0400, Bill wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:

By the way, the drill press baseboard (with wheels and legs) is
complete. I "just" need to assemble the DP on top of it.


Hey, hey hey. Save those detailed jobs for later on, once you have a
feel for this drawing/sketching thing, OK?

--
To know the road ahead, ask those coming back.
-- Chinese Proverb


Larry, Well, I got the DP installed on the base board up to the point in
the instructions where two people are required to lift the head on the
pole. I'll try to find a willing victim--I mean helper, tomorrow.
Progress is good.

When I flipped my Griz 18" bandsaur up onto its stand, I used a milk
crate as a lever. The heavy old girl went up with just one guy. Now,
I'd have considered my engine hoist to lift 'er.

G'luck finding a victim. You're making better-than-bowsaur time with
it.

--
"The history of temperature change over time is related to
the shape of the continents, the shape of the sea floor,
the pulling apart of the crust, the stitching back together
of the crust, the opening and closing of sea ways, changes
in the Earth's orbit, changes in solar energy, supernoval
eruptions, comet dust, impacts by comets and asteroids,
volcanic activity, bacteria, soil formation, sedimentation,
ocean currents, and the chemistry of air. If we humans, in
a fit of ego, think we can change these normal planetary
processes, then we need stronger medication."
--Ian Plimer
_Heaven and Earth: Global Warming, the Missing Science_

On Jun 14, 8:59*pm, Larry Jaques
wrote:


Someone told me that in college
that the engineering students and the art students were on completely
different parts of campus. That it was like 2 different worlds. *Having
examined the drawing books for myself, I understand that facts all that
much better now... * *: )

Indeed. *Engineering students are concerned with function while art
students are concerned only with form, to the exclusion of function.


A lot of people seem to have trouble with this. In high school I was
pretty artistic and everyone thought I should go into drafting. I had
some mechanical design interest too, but unrelated to art.

Art and drafting are very loosely related. An excellent draftsman
does not need to be artistic - drafting is the language of engineering
and the precise definition of objects. With that said, some guys I
knew who were artistic by nature could produce some very nice
engineering drawings. They just looked better.

RonB

RonB wrote:
On Jun 14, 8:59 pm, Larry
wrote:


Someone told me that in college
that the engineering students and the art students were on completely
different parts of campus. That it was like 2 different worlds. Having
examined the drawing books for myself, I understand that facts all that
much better now... : )

Indeed. Engineering students are concerned with function while art
students are concerned only with form, to the exclusion of function.


A lot of people seem to have trouble with this. In high school I was
pretty artistic and everyone thought I should go into drafting. I had
some mechanical design interest too, but unrelated to art.

Art and drafting are very loosely related. An excellent draftsman
does not need to be artistic - drafting is the language of engineering
and the precise definition of objects. With that said, some guys I
knew who were artistic by nature could produce some very nice
engineering drawings. They just looked better.

RonB


My dad, as a civil engineer, produced drawings like that. Here's a
subtle illustration that someone may possibly understand. When he was
'promoted' to "The City Engineer" he moved his drafting table with him
into his new office. I realize that is a complex illustration and you
either understand it or you don't. I don't mind sharing the story
because I think it illustrates passion.

Bill (jr)

"Bill" wrote in message
...

I don't think I've seen many threads on drawing/sketching here.

Did you ever get an answer not related to drafting/architectural?
Coincidentally I was looking at books on drawing yesterday at B&N and was
not satisfied with the selection. Saw most of those you mentioned including
the one you said you might order. I diverge, in that I am interested in also
doing color work.

Lobby Dosser wrote:
"Bill" wrote in message
...

I don't think I've seen many threads on drawing/sketching here.

Did you ever get an answer not related to drafting/architectural?
Coincidentally I was looking at books on drawing yesterday at B&N and
was not satisfied with the selection. Saw most of those you mentioned
including the one you said you might order. I diverge, in that I am
interested in also doing color work.

Yes Lobby, "Engineering Drawing", known at Amazon.com as "Manual of
Engineering Drawing" appears to be a well-thought-of standard for the
craft and was used in college by several of the folks here.
I ordered a version of it. I went back to the used book store to pick up
the book "How To Draw What You See", but someone else found it. I'll
probably collect a copy of it sometime. It looked a lot better to me
than most of the "how to draw" books. There are a lot of reviews of it
and sample pages to read at Amazon.

Cheers,
Bill

On Jun 13, 8:58*pm, Bill wrote:
I don't think I've seen many threads on drawing/sketching here.

A point of view I'm considering is that it's difficult to "design"
anything without being able to sketch. Thus I've developed some interest
in improving my skills in this area. For instance, I might like to
sketch some (bed) back boards to show my wife, or just for my own
amusement. *I think that in woodworking that some sketching is
assumed--and while I think I can draw better than those who say they
"can't", I believe I have plenty of room to improve too!

I will distinguish here between "a sketch", "a formal design document
drawing",and "art". My interests also do not extend into color thus far.

There appear to be dozens of books with titles like "How To Draw XXX",
where XXX is horses, cartoons, people, ..., but (for some strangle
reason) none on "furniture"! *; ) *Book suggestions welcome (I am
considering "How To Draw What You See"). Until yesterday I never tried
drawing with a graphite pencil softer than a regular #2.

Betty Edwards' Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain
has become a standard text for college drawing classes.
Most 101 level exercises -- such as blind contour, drawing
upside down, drawing only the "negative space" surrounding
the model -- are taken straight from Edwards. This book,
and a lot of practice, will help you draw well enough not to
have to rely on a computer.

Coincidentally, the newest issue of FWW, which arrived a few days ago,
contained an article encouraging "old fashioned formal drawing", on $38
paper (containing perspective lines...), using a a t-square and a
drawing board and addititional wasted $ for tracing equipment, etc..
IMO, I almost feel like the author should apologize in the next issue
and show how to do everything better, faster and cheaper on SketchUp!
Ironically, I wouldn't say SketchUp is for sketching as I have used the
term above.

Bill

As much as I know AutoCAD, I do most of my design
work on a sheet of butcher paper with a regular #2 pencil.
It feels natural, and I can relate to the space on that big
sheet of paper more easily than I can on a tiny 14" monitor.

Father Haskell wrote:
On Jun 13, 8:58 pm, wrote:
I don't think I've seen many threads on drawing/sketching here.

A point of view I'm considering is that it's difficult to "design"
anything without being able to sketch. Thus I've developed some interest
in improving my skills in this area. For instance, I might like to
sketch some (bed) back boards to show my wife, or just for my own
amusement. I think that in woodworking that some sketching is
assumed--and while I think I can draw better than those who say they
"can't", I believe I have plenty of room to improve too!

I will distinguish here between "a sketch", "a formal design document
drawing",and "art". My interests also do not extend into color thus far.

There appear to be dozens of books with titles like "How To Draw XXX",
where XXX is horses, cartoons, people, ..., but (for some strangle
reason) none on "furniture"! ; ) Book suggestions welcome (I am
considering "How To Draw What You See"). Until yesterday I never tried
drawing with a graphite pencil softer than a regular #2.

Betty Edwards' Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain
has become a standard text for college drawing classes.
Most 101 level exercises -- such as blind contour, drawing
upside down, drawing only the "negative space" surrounding
the model -- are taken straight from Edwards. This book,
and a lot of practice, will help you draw well enough not to
have to rely on a computer.


I went and read about 100 reviews of Edwards' book again (at Amazon). It
sounds alot like a psychology book--spending a lot of words defending
the "right brain" concept. Comparing their tables of contents, I liked
that of "How To Draw What You See" better than "DOTRSOTB". I'm sure
both books have a lot to offer. I'm not sure what you mean by "draw
well enough not to have to rely on a computer". I can produce a pretty
realistic looking apple on a piece of paper, but I don't think I could
do as well on a computer--even an Apple. ; ) I assume that you meant
for drawing things like furniture. But it seems hard to beat SU for
doing what it does well. I view paper and SU as complementary.

I've haven't had any drawing instruction since high school (and what I
received there was not intensive at all), but I practiced alot back in
those days and I can create 3D looking drawings. If I really give a
drawing my best effort, it will plateau with a decent level of
mediocrity that I am familiar with. I was hoping that with some
knowledge of new ideas, that I might be able to heighten this ceiling. I
ordered the older book "Engineering Drawing" by French and Vierck (sp),
even though it is perhaps not directly related to those we are currently
discussing. I'll probably save most of my drawing/design time for
winter when it's harder to do as much in the shop--though I must admit I
sketched for an hour or so last week and found it quite relaxing.


Coincidentally, the newest issue of FWW, which arrived a few days ago,
contained an article encouraging "old fashioned formal drawing", on $38
paper (containing perspective lines...), using a a t-square and a
drawing board and addititional wasted $ for tracing equipment, etc..
IMO, I almost feel like the author should apologize in the next issue
and show how to do everything better, faster and cheaper on SketchUp!
Ironically, I wouldn't say SketchUp is for sketching as I have used the
term above.

Bill

As much as I know AutoCAD, I do most of my design
work on a sheet of butcher paper with a regular #2 pencil.
It feels natural, and I can relate to the space on that big
sheet of paper more easily than I can on a tiny 14" monitor.

I've never used AutoCAD. But I know you can get a much bigger monitor
for not too much money these days! I do understand what you are saying
about paper vs computers as I haven't been able to warm up to e-books
yet...

Bill