Hey All,
I stopped in my local (Baltimore) Woodcraft today and noticed
that all of the Festool items had their price obliterated. When I
asked if this was in anticipation of the March 1 price increase the
sales dude told me no, it was a Festool policy not to display their
prices. He related to me that there was one Festool vendor that had
its "license" to sell Festool revoked because they displayed prices.
He was not sure if that was another Woodcraft or a more independent
vendor.
The new Festool catalogue is also devoid of prices. This makes
sense since they won't have "out of date" catalogues when they raise
prices again but if the vendors can't display prices on the floor it
will require potential customers to interact with the store staff
(which may or may not be a desireable task).
I do not know if this is national policy or if it is just limited
to Woodfcraft, or if it is just the Woodcrafts owned by the local
franchiser, but it seems counter productive to me. It disrupts my
eagerness to buy stuff if I have to ask prices each time I contemplate
buying something. I really doubt this is a nationwwide policy but
maybe it is Festool's version of buying a yacht; If you have to ask
how much it is, you really can't afford it.
On a slightly different note I'm not that excited about the Rotex
90. Unless you really need a small diameter sander the larger
Festools appear to have better balance. I have a Rotex 150 and it is
very easy to keep the pad flat when only holding the barrel . The 90
feels barrel heavy and I think you'd need to hold down on the head as
well as the barrel. Still, maybe some day I will "need" that 3+ inch
diameter pad for sanding something.
If you are a Festool junkie I think you'll also be happy seeing
the new catalogue. There are a couple new battery jigsaws and some
new battery drills including an 18 volt. That's got to be an
expensive drill based on their other models.
Not much else to dwell on so I'll head back down to my shop.
Hope you all have a productive - and safe - weekend in your shop too.
Marc

marc rosen wrote:
Hey All,
I stopped in my local (Baltimore) Woodcraft today and noticed
that all of the Festool items had their price obliterated. When I
asked if this was in anticipation of the March 1 price increase the
sales dude told me no, it was a Festool policy not to display their
prices. He related to me that there was one Festool vendor that had
its "license" to sell Festool revoked because they displayed prices.
He was not sure if that was another Woodcraft or a more independent
vendor.

I would highly doubt his story Marc. That does not even make sense. Sounds
more like a cheap sales guy story.


The new Festool catalogue is also devoid of prices. This makes
sense since they won't have "out of date" catalogues when they raise
prices again but if the vendors can't display prices on the floor it
will require potential customers to interact with the store staff
(which may or may not be a desireable task).

From a retail sales standpoint - that would be very desireable,
(interracting with the sales staff). It also makes sense that Festool does
not want the consumer to be aware of any price increases.


I do not know if this is national policy or if it is just limited
to Woodfcraft, or if it is just the Woodcrafts owned by the local
franchiser, but it seems counter productive to me. It disrupts my
eagerness to buy stuff if I have to ask prices each time I contemplate
buying something. I really doubt this is a nationwwide policy but
maybe it is Festool's version of buying a yacht; If you have to ask
how much it is, you really can't afford it.

Maybe - who knows? There is a big difference between marketing to yacht
buyers and marketing to woodworkers at Woodcraft though. Perhaps they think
they can take commodity items like tools to a new level, and they really
only want to market to people like... Leon...



--

-Mike-

I walk out of stores that don't display prices.
Whether it's wood, tools, or beer... I will not buy from a place that
doesn't have prices near or on the merch.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Feb 25, 11:54*pm, -MIKE- wrote:
I walk out of stores that don't display prices.
Whether it's wood, tools, or beer... I will not buy from a place that
doesn't have prices near or on the merch.

--

* -MIKE-

* "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
* * *--Elvin Jones *(1927-2004)
* --
*http://mikedrums.com
*
* ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

About prices... a buddy of mine has a standard saying:
"If you've got to ask...fukkum."

"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
I walk out of stores that don't display prices.
Whether it's wood, tools, or beer... I will not buy from a place that
doesn't have prices near or on the merch.

---------
Yep, there are a lot of websites out there that offer all kinds of
information EXCEPT prices. I leave them immediately. I spend enormous
amount of time on the web, both at work and at home. I don't have time to
talk to shiny shoed salesman.

Same with all those sites who want me to "register". If I have to register
to find out about your product or service, you must be selling crap. Or be
a crook.

Honest people who offer good products and service don't have to conduct
themselves like con men.

"marc rosen" wrote in message
...
Hey All,
I stopped in my local (Baltimore) Woodcraft today and
noticed
that all of the Festool items had their price obliterated.
When I
asked if this was in anticipation of the March 1 price
increase the
sales dude told me no, it was a Festool policy not to
display their
prices. He related to me that there was one Festool
vendor that had
its "license" to sell Festool revoked because they
displayed prices.
He was not sure if that was another Woodcraft or a more
independent
vendor.
The new Festool catalogue is also devoid of prices.
This makes
sense since they won't have "out of date" catalogues when
they raise
prices again but if the vendors can't display prices on
the floor it
will require potential customers to interact with the
store staff
(which may or may not be a desireable task).
I do not know if this is national policy or if it is
just limited
to Woodfcraft, or if it is just the Woodcrafts owned by
the local
franchiser, but it seems counter productive to me. It
disrupts my
eagerness to buy stuff if I have to ask prices each time I
contemplate
buying something. I really doubt this is a nationwwide
policy but
maybe it is Festool's version of buying a yacht; If you
have to ask
how much it is, you really can't afford it.
On a slightly different note I'm not that excited about
the Rotex
90. Unless you really need a small diameter sander the
larger
Festools appear to have better balance. I have a Rotex
150 and it is
very easy to keep the pad flat when only holding the
barrel . The 90
feels barrel heavy and I think you'd need to hold down on
the head as
well as the barrel. Still, maybe some day I will "need"
that 3+ inch
diameter pad for sanding something.
If you are a Festool junkie I think you'll also be
happy seeing
the new catalogue. There are a couple new battery jigsaws
and some
new battery drills including an 18 volt. That's got to be
an
expensive drill based on their other models.
Not much else to dwell on so I'll head back down to my
shop.
Hope you all have a productive - and safe - weekend in
your shop too.
Marc


If this is a Festool policy, then someone report Rockler.
Either haven't got the flyer or there was no flyer.
My take is the retailer feels that if the customer sees the
tool and the price simultaneously, they will be inclined to
walk the other way rather than inquire about the features
which may otherwise incline them to consider a purchase
in spite of the dollar tag. IOW, Woodcraft wants to justify
a purchase with the sizzling spiel before revealing a cost
figure.

Whether they have actually run a test of both approaches
which decided them on this one as a better contributor to
their bottom line...who knows? But if Rockler's
current handling of the same product line means Woodcraft
is lying...then the thought of where else the profit motive
will have them decieving their clientel is something I'd
consider before stepping in the store at all.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey
Edward Hennessey

-MIKE- wrote:
I walk out of stores that don't display prices.
Whether it's wood, tools, or beer... I will not buy from a place that
doesn't have prices near or on the merch.


Yeah, most the used car dealers are like that around here. I feel the
same way you do. One family of dealers won't even give you a price until
they get your whole family medical history (slight exaggeration).

Bill

Edward Hennessey wrote:
"marc wrote in message
...
Hey All,
I stopped in my local (Baltimore) Woodcraft today and
noticed
that all of the Festool items had their price obliterated.
When I
asked if this was in anticipation of the March 1 price
increase the
sales dude told me no, it was a Festool policy not to
display their
prices. He related to me that there was one Festool
vendor that had
its "license" to sell Festool revoked because they
displayed prices.
He was not sure if that was another Woodcraft or a more
independent
vendor.
The new Festool catalogue is also devoid of prices.
This makes
sense since they won't have "out of date" catalogues when
they raise
prices again but if the vendors can't display prices on
the floor it
will require potential customers to interact with the
store staff
(which may or may not be a desireable task).
I do not know if this is national policy or if it is
just limited
to Woodfcraft, or if it is just the Woodcrafts owned by
the local
franchiser, but it seems counter productive to me. It
disrupts my
eagerness to buy stuff if I have to ask prices each time I
contemplate
buying something. I really doubt this is a nationwwide
policy but
maybe it is Festool's version of buying a yacht; If you
have to ask
how much it is, you really can't afford it.
On a slightly different note I'm not that excited about
the Rotex
90. Unless you really need a small diameter sander the
larger
Festools appear to have better balance. I have a Rotex
150 and it is
very easy to keep the pad flat when only holding the
barrel . The 90
feels barrel heavy and I think you'd need to hold down on
the head as
well as the barrel. Still, maybe some day I will "need"
that 3+ inch
diameter pad for sanding something.
If you are a Festool junkie I think you'll also be
happy seeing
the new catalogue. There are a couple new battery jigsaws
and some
new battery drills including an 18 volt. That's got to be
an
expensive drill based on their other models.
Not much else to dwell on so I'll head back down to my
shop.
Hope you all have a productive - and safe - weekend in
your shop too.
Marc


If this is a Festool policy, then someone report Rockler.
Either haven't got the flyer or there was no flyer.
My take is the retailer feels that if the customer sees the
tool and the price simultaneously, they will be inclined to
walk the other way rather than inquire about the features
which may otherwise incline them to consider a purchase
in spite of the dollar tag. IOW, Woodcraft wants to justify
a purchase with the sizzling spiel before revealing a cost
figure.

Whether they have actually run a test of both approaches
which decided them on this one as a better contributor to
their bottom line...who knows? But if Rockler's
current handling of the same product line means Woodcraft
is lying...then the thought of where else the profit motive
will have them decieving their clientel is something I'd
consider before stepping in the store at all.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey
Edward Hennessey


I have a Rockler and Woodcraft within driving distance. I think
Rockler's prices are often about 25% more than Woodcraft's--which helps
them complensate for all of those 20%-off coupons they send out every
week. I'd rather they not sent the coupons, and just adjusted their
pricing. Like some other posters here, I'm getting impatient with
pricing "games".

Bill in IN.

On Fri, 25 Feb 2011 17:44:50 -0800 (PST), marc rosen
wrote:

Hey All,
I stopped in my local (Baltimore) Woodcraft today and noticed
that all of the Festool items had their price obliterated. When I
asked if this was in anticipation of the March 1 price increase the
sales dude told me no, it was a Festool policy not to display their
prices. He related to me that there was one Festool vendor that had
its "license" to sell Festool revoked because they displayed prices.
He was not sure if that was another Woodcraft or a more independent
vendor.

The truth is probably that they were spending far too much time
cleaning poo off the floor in front of the green tool pricetags.
I know I just about **** every time I read one of their prices.

--
You can't wait for inspiration. You have to go after it with a club.
--Jack London

On 2/26/11 12:07 AM, Bill wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:
I walk out of stores that don't display prices.
Whether it's wood, tools, or beer... I will not buy from a place that
doesn't have prices near or on the merch.


Yeah, most the used car dealers are like that around here. I feel the
same way you do. One family of dealers won't even give you a price until
they get your whole family medical history (slight exaggeration).

Bill

I walked out on a car deal once, because after I had asked the guy for
the total amount it would cost so I could call my bank and ask about
payments, I came back and it was like $150 higher for administrative fees.

I told him, "First of all, that's called overhead and it comes out of
your profit. Secondly, you had your chance to disclose that when I asked
the first time. You now have the chance to remove it or loss the sale."


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

-MIKE- wrote:
On 2/26/11 12:07 AM, Bill wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:
I walk out of stores that don't display prices.
Whether it's wood, tools, or beer... I will not buy from a place that
doesn't have prices near or on the merch.


Yeah, most the used car dealers are like that around here. I feel the
same way you do. One family of dealers won't even give you a price until
they get your whole family medical history (slight exaggeration).

Bill

I walked out on a car deal once, because after I had asked the guy for
the total amount it would cost so I could call my bank and ask about
payments, I came back and it was like $150 higher for administrative fees.

I told him, "First of all, that's called overhead and it comes out of
your profit. Secondly, you had your chance to disclose that when I asked
the first time. You now have the chance to remove it or loss the sale."


Gosh maybe we're neighbors. I ran into that same $150 administrative fee
twice (on my car and my wife's). I asked them point blank, "Are you
trying to charge me for cashing my check?" Fee was waved both times. In
the more interesting of the two cases, I was asked, "Do you want to
speak to the manager about it?", I hesitated for a moment and then said
yes, and she said, "Oh, he's out to lunch" and printed out a new bill of
sale without batting an eye. Must be good commissions in that work...

Bill

It's been a while since I was in WoodCraft, but I do remember thinking
that they should have been ashamed of the prices that they DID display.


--
When the game is over, the pawn and the king are returned to the same box.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar.org

On 2/25/2011 7:44 PM, marc rosen wrote:
Hey All,
I stopped in my local (Baltimore) Woodcraft today and noticed
that all of the Festool items had their price obliterated. When I
asked if this was in anticipation of the March 1 price increase the
sales dude told me no, it was a Festool policy not to display their
prices. He related to me that there was one Festool vendor that had
its "license" to sell Festool revoked because they displayed prices.
He was not sure if that was another Woodcraft or a more independent
vendor.

Lame salesman BS? ... here's one of the most active Festool dealers in
the country:

http://bobmarinosbesttools.com/

That said, the dealers are apparently not allowed to disclose the new
prices in advance, which makes absolutely perfect sense.

Sounds like some dumb **** overreacted. The world is becoming full of 'em.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

marc rosen wrote:
Hey All,
I stopped in my local (Baltimore) Woodcraft today and noticed
that all of the Festool items had their price obliterated. When I
asked if this was in anticipation of the March 1 price increase the
sales dude told me no, it was a Festool policy not to display their
prices. He related to me that there was one Festool vendor that had
its "license" to sell Festool revoked because they displayed prices.
He was not sure if that was another Woodcraft or a more independent
vendor.
The new Festool catalogue is also devoid of prices. This makes
sense since they won't have "out of date" catalogues when they raise
prices again but if the vendors can't display prices on the floor it
will require potential customers to interact with the store staff
(which may or may not be a desireable task).
I do not know if this is national policy or if it is just limited
to Woodfcraft, or if it is just the Woodcrafts owned by the local
franchiser, but it seems counter productive to me. It disrupts my
eagerness to buy stuff if I have to ask prices each time I contemplate
buying something. I really doubt this is a nationwwide policy but
maybe it is Festool's version of buying a yacht; If you have to ask
how much it is, you really can't afford it.
On a slightly different note I'm not that excited about the Rotex
90. Unless you really need a small diameter sander the larger
Festools appear to have better balance. I have a Rotex 150 and it is
very easy to keep the pad flat when only holding the barrel . The 90
feels barrel heavy and I think you'd need to hold down on the head as
well as the barrel. Still, maybe some day I will "need" that 3+ inch
diameter pad for sanding something.
If you are a Festool junkie I think you'll also be happy seeing
the new catalogue. There are a couple new battery jigsaws and some
new battery drills including an 18 volt. That's got to be an
expensive drill based on their other models.
Not much else to dwell on so I'll head back down to my shop.
Hope you all have a productive - and safe - weekend in your shop too.
Marc

I don't buy coffee at a place that does not display prices.

Places that do not show prices are always dearer.

-MIKE- wrote in -
september.org:

I walk out of stores that don't display prices.
Whether it's wood, tools, or beer... I will not buy from a place that
doesn't have prices near or on the merch.

In some states, it's illegal not to post prices at least next to an item.
It used to be everything had to have the price clearly marked on the item,
but inflation made that problematic for some places. As long as you turn
over your mechandise faster than the prices go up, it's not such a big
deal.

Unless I REALLY need a specific item, I generally avoid stuff that isn't
priced. I also try to arrive at a store with a good idea of what the going
rate is. I'm certainly not going to buy an expensive power tool without
shopping around first, even if I decide to pick it up at a local store.

Doug White

"Lee Michaels" leemichaels*nadaspam* at comcast dot net wrote
Yep, there are a lot of websites out there that offer all kinds of
information EXCEPT prices. I leave them immediately. I spend enormous
amount of time on the web, both at work and at home. I don't have time to
talk to shiny shoed salesman.

Same with all those sites who want me to "register". If I have to
register to find out about your product or service, you must be selling
crap. Or be a crook.

Honest people who offer good products and service don't have to conduct
themselves like con men.

The only time no price is acceptable is when the manufacturer shows items
that will vary considerably by retailer, generally low end items. Even
major appliances show the "list" price so you have a starting point to talk
to the local retailers.

As for Festool, I wonder if they think asking will start a dialog with the
salesperson and eventually a sale. I've usually done my homework before
hitting the store so I know if I want to even look at an item before I get
there. With $100 in my pocket, no amount of interaction with a salesdude
will get me to buy a $400 sander.

On Feb 26, 12:28*am, "Lee Michaels" leemichaels*nadaspam* at comcast
dot net wrote:
"-MIKE-" wrote in message

... I walk out of stores that don't display prices.
Whether it's wood, tools, or beer... I will not buy from a place that
doesn't have prices near or on the merch.

---------
Yep, there are a lot of websites out there that offer all kinds of
information EXCEPT prices. *I leave them immediately. I spend enormous
amount of time on the web, both at work and at home. I don't have time to
talk to shiny shoed salesman.

Same with all those sites who want me to "register". *If I have to register
to find out about your product or service, you must be selling crap. *Or be
a crook.

Honest people who offer good products and service don't have to conduct
themselves like con men.

Amen, bro'!

On Feb 26, 1:07*am, Bill wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:
I walk out of stores that don't display prices.
Whether it's wood, tools, or beer... I will not buy from a place that
doesn't have prices near or on the merch.

Yeah, most the used car dealers are like that around here. I feel the
same way you do. One family of dealers won't even give you a price until
they get your whole family medical history (slight exaggeration).

Bill

Years ago, the local Ford dealer would make you sign a purchase
agreement with the price you wanted to pay before he'd take it in to
the manager. "You buy it first, then we talk money."
That didn't last too long.

On Feb 26, 1:44*am, -MIKE- wrote:
On 2/26/11 12:07 AM, Bill wrote:

-MIKE- wrote:
I walk out of stores that don't display prices.
Whether it's wood, tools, or beer... I will not buy from a place that
doesn't have prices near or on the merch.

Yeah, most the used car dealers are like that around here. I feel the
same way you do. One family of dealers won't even give you a price until
they get your whole family medical history (slight exaggeration).

Bill

I walked out on a car deal once, because after I had asked the guy for
the total amount it would cost so I could call my bank and ask about
payments, I came back and it was like $150 higher for administrative fees..

I told him, "First of all, that's called overhead and it comes out of
your profit. Secondly, you had your chance to disclose that when I asked
the first time. You now have the chance to remove it or loss the sale."

--

* -MIKE-

* "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
* * *--Elvin Jones *(1927-2004)
* --
*http://mikedrums.com
*
* ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

I found at a Subaru dealer a really cool , black, 2008 WRX sti, second
stage COBB, 70,000 km.
I asked the price, which was well within my magic number, but I had to
ask if he could a little better than that, cash deal and all that.
He said he'd "waive the $450.00 admin fee." I asked him if that was
already in the original number he had given me.
He said no.
I asked him if he could really sweeten the deal by taking off a
$1000.00 admin fee that way...He didn't get my humour. I said bye.

Like those clowns who will try to get your business by offering 2
years no interest but want a 10% admin/registration fee.

In article
,
marc rosen wrote:

Hey All,
I stopped in my local (Baltimore) Woodcraft today and noticed
that all of the Festool items had their price obliterated. When I
asked if this was in anticipation of the March 1 price increase the
sales dude told me no, it was a Festool policy not to display their
prices. He related to me that there was one Festool vendor that had
its "license" to sell Festool revoked because they displayed prices.
He was not sure if that was another Woodcraft or a more independent
vendor.
The new Festool catalogue is also devoid of prices. This makes
sense since they won't have "out of date" catalogues when they raise
prices again but if the vendors can't display prices on the floor it
will require potential customers to interact with the store staff
(which may or may not be a desireable task).
I do not know if this is national policy or if it is just limited
to Woodfcraft, or if it is just the Woodcrafts owned by the local
franchiser, but it seems counter productive to me. It disrupts my
eagerness to buy stuff if I have to ask prices each time I contemplate
buying something. I really doubt this is a nationwwide policy but
maybe it is Festool's version of buying a yacht; If you have to ask
how much it is, you really can't afford it.
On a slightly different note I'm not that excited about the Rotex
90. Unless you really need a small diameter sander the larger
Festools appear to have better balance. I have a Rotex 150 and it is
very easy to keep the pad flat when only holding the barrel . The 90
feels barrel heavy and I think you'd need to hold down on the head as
well as the barrel. Still, maybe some day I will "need" that 3+ inch
diameter pad for sanding something.
If you are a Festool junkie I think you'll also be happy seeing
the new catalogue. There are a couple new battery jigsaws and some
new battery drills including an 18 volt. That's got to be an
expensive drill based on their other models.
Not much else to dwell on so I'll head back down to my shop.
Hope you all have a productive - and safe - weekend in your shop too.
Marc

In some states the store is violating the law, since they have to
display the price or put the item price on every box. I don't know about
Maryland, but you may be able to get some money, since turning in a
store that does not follow the pricing policy has a bounty in some
states.

On Feb 26, 1:07*am, Bill wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:
I walk out of stores that don't display prices.
Whether it's wood, tools, or beer... I will not buy from a place that
doesn't have prices near or on the merch.

Yeah, most the used car dealers are like that around here. I feel the
same way you do. One family of dealers won't even give you a price until
they get your whole family medical history (slight exaggeration).

Bill

That sounds like when I tried to patronize a local insurance agent
(State Farm). I went in to get a quote and was presented with a full-
page list of personal history that they "needed" to have. I said
"really?" and then left. It's almost as if some places don't really
want your business at all. Strange.

JP

On 2/26/11 8:38 AM, Doug White wrote:
wrote in -
september.org:

I walk out of stores that don't display prices.
Whether it's wood, tools, or beer... I will not buy from a place that
doesn't have prices near or on the merch.

In some states, it's illegal not to post prices at least next to an item.
It used to be everything had to have the price clearly marked on the item,
but inflation made that problematic for some places. As long as you turn
over your mechandise faster than the prices go up, it's not such a big
deal.


As long as there's a tag on the shelf, I don't see why every item needs
marked. I know there are still states with that antiquated law, but bar
codes kind of did away with that need.


Unless I REALLY need a specific item, I generally avoid stuff that isn't
priced. I also try to arrive at a store with a good idea of what the going
rate is.

How many times do we go to a store knowing exactly what we need and how
many times do we go in thinking, "there are several ways I can do what I
need to do, let me find the cheapest?" If I have to take a salesman (or
catalog) around the store with me, I'm outta there.


I'm certainly not going to buy an expensive power tool without
shopping around first, even if I decide to pick it up at a local store.

Doug White

My smart-phone has revolutionized my shopping experience. I just scan
the barcode and it googles the product to show me all the prices on the
internet and other local stores.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Sat, 26 Feb 2011 02:55:05 -0500, Bill wrote:

-MIKE- wrote:
On 2/26/11 12:07 AM, Bill wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:
I walk out of stores that don't display prices.
Whether it's wood, tools, or beer... I will not buy from a place that
doesn't have prices near or on the merch.


Yeah, most the used car dealers are like that around here. I feel the
same way you do. One family of dealers won't even give you a price until
they get your whole family medical history (slight exaggeration).

Bill

I walked out on a car deal once, because after I had asked the guy for
the total amount it would cost so I could call my bank and ask about
payments, I came back and it was like $150 higher for administrative fees.

I told him, "First of all, that's called overhead and it comes out of
your profit. Secondly, you had your chance to disclose that when I asked
the first time. You now have the chance to remove it or loss the sale."


Gosh maybe we're neighbors. I ran into that same $150 administrative fee
twice (on my car and my wife's). I asked them point blank, "Are you
trying to charge me for cashing my check?" Fee was waved both times. In
the more interesting of the two cases, I was asked, "Do you want to
speak to the manager about it?", I hesitated for a moment and then said
yes, and she said, "Oh, he's out to lunch" and printed out a new bill of
sale without batting an eye. Must be good commissions in that work...

When I lived in VT, I was very good friends with a GM of a Ford dealership.
When I questioned their "documentation fee" he said it was a requirement of
the state DMV that it must be the same for every sale. They can do whatever
they want with the selling price (e.g. subtract the doc fee) but the doc fee
*had* to be the same for all.

zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 26 Feb 2011 02:55:05 -0500, wrote:

-MIKE- wrote:
On 2/26/11 12:07 AM, Bill wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:
I walk out of stores that don't display prices.
Whether it's wood, tools, or beer... I will not buy from a place that
doesn't have prices near or on the merch.


Yeah, most the used car dealers are like that around here. I feel the
same way you do. One family of dealers won't even give you a price until
they get your whole family medical history (slight exaggeration).

Bill

I walked out on a car deal once, because after I had asked the guy for
the total amount it would cost so I could call my bank and ask about
payments, I came back and it was like $150 higher for administrative fees.

I told him, "First of all, that's called overhead and it comes out of
your profit. Secondly, you had your chance to disclose that when I asked
the first time. You now have the chance to remove it or loss the sale."


Gosh maybe we're neighbors. I ran into that same $150 administrative fee
twice (on my car and my wife's). I asked them point blank, "Are you
trying to charge me for cashing my check?" Fee was waved both times. In
the more interesting of the two cases, I was asked, "Do you want to
speak to the manager about it?", I hesitated for a moment and then said
yes, and she said, "Oh, he's out to lunch" and printed out a new bill of
sale without batting an eye. Must be good commissions in that work...

When I lived in VT, I was very good friends with a GM of a Ford dealership.
When I questioned their "documentation fee" he said it was a requirement of
the state DMV that it must be the same for every sale. They can do whatever
they want with the selling price (e.g. subtract the doc fee) but the doc fee
*had* to be the same for all.

My transactions were in IN. I'll look at my paperwork later..it should
be easy to find...lol.

Bill

On 2/26/11 12:27 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:

When I lived in VT, I was very good friends with a GM of a Ford dealership.
When I questioned their "documentation fee" he said it was a requirement of
the state DMV that it must be the same for every sale. They can do whatever
they want with the selling price (e.g. subtract the doc fee) but the doc fee
*had* to be the same for all.

He was at best misleading you, at worse flat out lying, which he may
have just been indoctrinated into from working there so long.

Most likely, the DMV had requirements regarding the tax & title fees. It
costs $X for a car title, which the state DMV charges, not the dealer.
The dealer is simply doing this for you as a service, probably because
it makes things easier on their end. So the DMV doesn't want them
charging $30 for a title that the consumer can go down to the DMV and
get for $10. In other words, the state outlaws the dealer double-dipping
or profiting on a state tax.

Titles fees are completely separate from the "doc fees" or "admin fees"
that dealers trump up to pad their profit. If the DMV (state law)
actually requires dealers to charge the same amount for "admin fees" to
every customer, then the dealer has the choice to charge every customer
$0 for admin fees.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Bill wrote:
zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 26 Feb 2011 02:55:05 -0500, wrote:

-MIKE- wrote:
On 2/26/11 12:07 AM, Bill wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:
I walk out of stores that don't display prices.
Whether it's wood, tools, or beer... I will not buy from a place that
doesn't have prices near or on the merch.


Yeah, most the used car dealers are like that around here. I feel the
same way you do. One family of dealers won't even give you a price
until
they get your whole family medical history (slight exaggeration).

Bill

I walked out on a car deal once, because after I had asked the guy for
the total amount it would cost so I could call my bank and ask about
payments, I came back and it was like $150 higher for administrative
fees.

I told him, "First of all, that's called overhead and it comes out of
your profit. Secondly, you had your chance to disclose that when I
asked
the first time. You now have the chance to remove it or loss the sale."


Gosh maybe we're neighbors. I ran into that same $150 administrative fee
twice (on my car and my wife's). I asked them point blank, "Are you
trying to charge me for cashing my check?" Fee was waved both times. In
the more interesting of the two cases, I was asked, "Do you want to
speak to the manager about it?", I hesitated for a moment and then said
yes, and she said, "Oh, he's out to lunch" and printed out a new bill of
sale without batting an eye. Must be good commissions in that work...

When I lived in VT, I was very good friends with a GM of a Ford
dealership.
When I questioned their "documentation fee" he said it was a
requirement of
the state DMV that it must be the same for every sale. They can do
whatever
they want with the selling price (e.g. subtract the doc fee) but the
doc fee
*had* to be the same for all.

My transactions were in IN. I'll look at my paperwork later..it should
be easy to find...lol.

Bill

In my case the "DOC/CRA Fee" --whatever that is, was changed from $150
to N/A. Just for the asking...

Bill

FWIW, When I stopped by my local Woodcraft yesterday to purchase a Rotex 125
they gave me both a general Festool catalog, as well as the latest (2011)
Master Price list.

Not sure if the fact that the previous week I bought a Kapex , a CT36 as
well as a MFT/3 had anything to do with it.

Next week I'll stop by and get a PSB300 jigsaw (they were on order).

The salesman did tell me that they had a large order coming in this week and
that they were going to greatly expand the Festool display area.


"JayPique" wrote in message
...

On Feb 26, 1:07 am, Bill wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:
I walk out of stores that don't display prices.
Whether it's wood, tools, or beer... I will not buy from a place that
doesn't have prices near or on the merch.

Yeah, most the used car dealers are like that around here. I feel the
same way you do. One family of dealers won't even give you a price until
they get your whole family medical history (slight exaggeration).

Bill

That sounds like when I tried to patronize a local insurance agent
(State Farm). I went in to get a quote and was presented with a full-
page list of personal history that they "needed" to have. I said
"really?" and then left. It's almost as if some places don't really
want your business at all. Strange.

JP

On Feb 26, 4:00*pm, "TimDrouillard" wrote:
FWIW, When I stopped by my local Woodcraft yesterday to purchase a Rotex 125
they gave me both a general Festool catalog, as well as the latest (2011)
Master Price list.

Not sure if the fact that the previous week I bought a Kapex , a CT36 as
well as a MFT/3 had anything to do with it.

Next week I'll stop by and get a PSB300 jigsaw (they were on order).



This one?

http://s123.photobucket.com/albums/o...FestoolFun.mp4

No, that's the PS 300 barrel grip jigsaw, I'm after the PSB 300 D-handle
version.

"Robatoy" wrote in message
...

On Feb 26, 4:00 pm, "TimDrouillard" wrote:
FWIW, When I stopped by my local Woodcraft yesterday to purchase a Rotex
125
they gave me both a general Festool catalog, as well as the latest (2011)
Master Price list.

Not sure if the fact that the previous week I bought a Kapex , a CT36 as
well as a MFT/3 had anything to do with it.

Next week I'll stop by and get a PSB300 jigsaw (they were on order).



This one?

http://s123.photobucket.com/albums/o...FestoolFun.mp4

On Feb 26, 4:27*pm, "TimDrouillard" wrote:
No, that's the PS 300 barrel grip jigsaw, I'm after the PSB 300 D-handle
version.

I'm a barrel-grip guy. I find I'm more accurate with it and it works
better for me in awkward (upside-down) situations.
I do have both. A german made Milwaukee and a Bosch barrel grip.
Neither has any serious dust collection.

I thought about going with the barrel grip version, and maybe if they have
both when I go back I'll take a look at the barrel version, but for some
reason I'm inclined to stay with the D-handle type because that's what I've
had for many years..

I'm just a amateur woodworker. I've had a d-handle Bosch for a number of
years that I like except for the blade holding mechanism. It's the style
that you turn the top handle to change the blade.


"Robatoy" wrote in message
...

On Feb 26, 4:27 pm, "TimDrouillard" wrote:
No, that's the PS 300 barrel grip jigsaw, I'm after the PSB 300 D-handle
version.

I'm a barrel-grip guy. I find I'm more accurate with it and it works
better for me in awkward (upside-down) situations.
I do have both. A german made Milwaukee and a Bosch barrel grip.
Neither has any serious dust collection.

On Sat, 26 Feb 2011 12:49:17 -0600, -MIKE- wrote:

On 2/26/11 12:27 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:

When I lived in VT, I was very good friends with a GM of a Ford dealership.
When I questioned their "documentation fee" he said it was a requirement of
the state DMV that it must be the same for every sale. They can do whatever
they want with the selling price (e.g. subtract the doc fee) but the doc fee
*had* to be the same for all.

He was at best misleading you, at worse flat out lying, which he may
have just been indoctrinated into from working there so long.

Nope.

Most likely, the DMV had requirements regarding the tax & title fees. It
costs $X for a car title, which the state DMV charges, not the dealer.
The dealer is simply doing this for you as a service, probably because
it makes things easier on their end. So the DMV doesn't want them
charging $30 for a title that the consumer can go down to the DMV and
get for $10. In other words, the state outlaws the dealer double-dipping
or profiting on a state tax.

Nothing to do with what the DMV charges.

Titles fees are completely separate from the "doc fees" or "admin fees"
that dealers trump up to pad their profit. If the DMV (state law)
actually requires dealers to charge the same amount for "admin fees" to
every customer, then the dealer has the choice to charge every customer
$0 for admin fees.

They could, yes. They'd rather charge it, though. In VT they cannot add it
indiscriminately. In for an ounce...

On Sat, 26 Feb 2011 16:00:37 -0500, "TimDrouillard"
wrote:

FWIW, When I stopped by my local Woodcraft yesterday to purchase a Rotex 125
they gave me both a general Festool catalog, as well as the latest (2011)
Master Price list.

Highland Woodworking in Atlanta has the master price list sitting out by the
tools. The Woodcraft there, and IIRC the one in Birmingham, have prices
marked on stickers on the packaging (systainers, in the case of power tools).

On 2/26/11 4:18 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 26 Feb 2011 12:49:17 -0600, wrote:

On 2/26/11 12:27 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:

When I lived in VT, I was very good friends with a GM of a Ford dealership.
When I questioned their "documentation fee" he said it was a requirement of
the state DMV that it must be the same for every sale. They can do whatever
they want with the selling price (e.g. subtract the doc fee) but the doc fee
*had* to be the same for all.

He was at best misleading you, at worse flat out lying, which he may
have just been indoctrinated into from working there so long.

Nope.

Most likely, the DMV had requirements regarding the tax& title fees. It
costs $X for a car title, which the state DMV charges, not the dealer.
The dealer is simply doing this for you as a service, probably because
it makes things easier on their end. So the DMV doesn't want them
charging $30 for a title that the consumer can go down to the DMV and
get for $10. In other words, the state outlaws the dealer double-dipping
or profiting on a state tax.

Nothing to do with what the DMV charges.

Titles fees are completely separate from the "doc fees" or "admin fees"
that dealers trump up to pad their profit. If the DMV (state law)
actually requires dealers to charge the same amount for "admin fees" to
every customer, then the dealer has the choice to charge every customer
$0 for admin fees.

They could, yes. They'd rather charge it, though. In VT they cannot add it
indiscriminately. In for an ounce...


That's really my only point. They are blaming it on the DMV, which is BS
in so many ways, but not really the point of this discussion. The point
is, they are trying to BS the buyer into thinking they have no choice
but to charge the doc fee.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 2/26/2011 4:18 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
....

They could, yes. They'd rather charge it, though. In VT they cannot add it
indiscriminately. In for an ounce...

I'd be _very_ surprised if the law actually refers to a dealer's "admin"
fees outside of state-imposed fees as well.

As always, a reference to the applicable State Code section would clear
up the confusion...

--

On Sat, 26 Feb 2011 16:40:39 -0600, dpb wrote:

On 2/26/2011 4:18 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
...

They could, yes. They'd rather charge it, though. In VT they cannot add it
indiscriminately. In for an ounce...

I'd be _very_ surprised if the law actually refers to a dealer's "admin"
fees outside of state-imposed fees as well.

They do. States have all sorts of silly "consumer protection" nonsense.

As always, a reference to the applicable State Code section would clear
up the confusion...

Go for it.

"marc rosen" wrote in message
...
Hey All,
I stopped in my local (Baltimore) Woodcraft today and noticed
that all of the Festool items had their price obliterated. When I
asked if this was in anticipation of the March 1 price increase the
sales dude told me no, it was a Festool policy not to display their
prices. He related to me that there was one Festool vendor that had
its "license" to sell Festool revoked because they displayed prices.
He was not sure if that was another Woodcraft or a more independent
vendor.
snip



For what it is worth, Festool has all their tool prices posted on their web
site. My local Woodcraft has their prices posted also.

"TimDrouillard" wrote in message
...
I thought about going with the barrel grip version, and maybe if they have
both when I go back I'll take a look at the barrel version, but for some
reason I'm inclined to stay with the D-handle type because that's what I've
had for many years..

I'm just a amateur woodworker. I've had a d-handle Bosch for a number of
years that I like except for the blade holding mechanism. It's the style
that you turn the top handle to change the blade.


"Robatoy" wrote in message
...

On Feb 26, 4:27 pm, "TimDrouillard" wrote:
No, that's the PS 300 barrel grip jigsaw, I'm after the PSB 300 D-handle
version.

I'm a barrel-grip guy. I find I'm more accurate with it and it works
better for me in awkward (upside-down) situations.
I do have both. A german made Milwaukee and a Bosch barrel grip.
Neither has any serious dust collection.

Have you used the Festool jig saw? I have no doubt that it is an excellent
tool however I was talking to a wood worker that apparently had all the
Festool stuff and he was a bit miffed with the jig saw. Apparently it is a
bit difficult to see your cut line and the blade. Something to consider.

"Bill" wrote in message
...
Edward Hennessey wrote:
"marc wrote in message
...


I have a Rockler and Woodcraft within driving distance. I think Rockler's
prices are often about 25% more than Woodcraft's--which helps them
complensate for all of those 20%-off coupons they send out every week.
I'd rather they not sent the coupons, and just adjusted their pricing.
Like some other posters here, I'm getting impatient with pricing "games".

Bill in IN.


Strangly enough, Our Rockler seems at least 25 percent cheaper than our
Woodcraft. In Houston and we still get the good coupons.

No I have not actually used one yet. All the reviews I've read rate it quite
highly. I don't recall any of the reviewers mentioning anything about having
a problem with seeing the cut line nor the blade, but I'll be on the lookout
for it now.
The biggest complaint I've heard it with regards to the price.

Thanks.

"Leon" wrote in message
...


"TimDrouillard" wrote in message
...
I thought about going with the barrel grip version, and maybe if they have
both when I go back I'll take a look at the barrel version, but for some
reason I'm inclined to stay with the D-handle type because that's what I've
had for many years..

I'm just a amateur woodworker. I've had a d-handle Bosch for a number of
years that I like except for the blade holding mechanism. It's the style
that you turn the top handle to change the blade.


"Robatoy" wrote in message
...

On Feb 26, 4:27 pm, "TimDrouillard" wrote:
No, that's the PS 300 barrel grip jigsaw, I'm after the PSB 300 D-handle
version.

I'm a barrel-grip guy. I find I'm more accurate with it and it works
better for me in awkward (upside-down) situations.
I do have both. A german made Milwaukee and a Bosch barrel grip.
Neither has any serious dust collection.

Have you used the Festool jig saw? I have no doubt that it is an excellent
tool however I was talking to a wood worker that apparently had all the
Festool stuff and he was a bit miffed with the jig saw. Apparently it is a
bit difficult to see your cut line and the blade. Something to consider.