"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
...

"Leon" wrote:

Crap Lew, I am bored so I am going to come back with an answer that you
are going to "owe me one" for. I'll be prepairing to duck.

Why would I need an electric hot water heater? ;~)


I give up.

Lew


"hot" water heater? I only need a "water heater". ;!) Iknow, I know, it
reheats relatively hot water, but would a hot water heater work if it were
full of cold water?

On Dec 17, 6:17*pm, Swingman wrote:
Robatoy wrote:
I once met a beautiful French woman. I was fascinated by her
beauty...till I saw the hairy armpits and legs and smelled the
Gauloises on her clothes.

Early 70's Germany, bathes taken once a week, maybe; German nightclub in
the dead of winter, dancing, everyone wearing wool, deodorant apparently
an "American thing" ...

--www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

Sounds like you were around Garmisch Partenkirchen/Mittemwalt
(Eibsee) area.

Leon wrote:
"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:

Totally agree with that and I attribute the failure to poor teachers
that don't give a **** and that finally led to teachers that could
not find a job any where else. Long ago when teachers could step
in as a parent and administer discipline he or she could actually
teach. We have lost teachers that actually taught for baby sitters.

Uh, you might want to actually get drunk with a few teachers sometime
before
you blame them. They have to do what they can with what they've got
and what they've got these days isn't much (and I'm not talking
about the kids,
I'm talking about the rules they are required to work under). Wanna
fix education, first shoot all the professors of education and all
the school boards.


It may differ with location but for the most part the teachers you are
describing are what we had 20 years ago, but not in Houston today.
Today they are asking "how to do" from the kids.

Not sure what you mean by "asking how to do", however in some districts
teachers are forbidden to actually teach subject matter--they are
constrained when a kid asks a question to "facilitate" the kid looking it up
for himself and disciplinary action will be taken against them if they
actually get caught answering the question.

I know it is not their fault, the teachers, for the most part the
good ones are long since gone.
And they are gone because they no longer want to be baby sitters
instead of maintaining discipline and actually teaching. Teaching
should also be considered a part of how a child is taught to act and
to respect others. That does not happen any more.
While I agree the restrictions/cigarettes was the root of the
problem.

I don't understand what you think cigarettes have to do with anything. As
for restrictions, it's not just "restrictions", its a whole mass of
bureaucrat-mandated bull****.

That problem has decayed enough that we now can only get
baby sitters/the cancer, to hold positions for any length of time.
Any decent new teacher typically becomes a bad one or leaves the
system. The problem is through out the whole education system now.

However the teachers are not the cause. They don't make the decisions.
They don't make the policies.

You could staff the schools with a who's who of American leadership and they
wouldn't be any better than they are now because they'd be operating under
the same rules.

When there's something wrong with a huge organization, it's not the peons at
the bottom who are causing it.

The HS my son went to was an exception to the norm, that school had
"good" teachers and there was not a discipline problem.

And this is symptomatic of the problem. Every parent knows that the schools
are broken, but the one that their little darling went to was an exception.

That public
HS was by invitation only. The only requirement to be invited to
attend that school was that you needed to have a "Satisfactory"
average, for conduct, that's it. If a student became a discipline
problem they were warned once and the second time transferred to one
of the other HS's in the district.

So the teachers at that school weren't any better than the ones in the other
schools, they just made the problem kids somebody else's problem. So do you
think that those same teachers would have done nearly as well at one of the
other schools?

When my son began at that HS the school had grades 9-12. In all four
grade levels there were only 650 students. I would estimate that in
the other 3 HS's that there were in excess of 10K and that is a very
conservative estimate. Out of all of those students approximately
150 were invited each year to attend Kerr HS.

And from that you conclude that the _teachers_ at those other schools are
the problem?

Kerr HS taught the kids how to prepare for college every day. There
was no week off to study for the TAAS test, which is a Texas thing to
judge how the students are coming along for their grade level. His
middle school took a week every year to review for that test. IIRC
the year my son graduated 95% of the students had been accepted to a
college. IIRC 87% of those students had been awarded scholarships of
$15K or more.

And this is because the teachers were so brilliant you think.

I'm certain that the education that my son received at Kerr HS played
a very major roll in him transitioning so smoothly into college. I
recall the 10th graders mentoring the incoming 9th graders and most
of them were high achievers. Life transitioning into Kerr HS was a
bigger challenge for my son than going from that HS into college. I
am also certain that Kerr HS played a major part in my son getting
into the Honors College his first year at the university and
graduating with a 4 year average GPA of 3.87.

And all of this you attribute to the excellence of the teachers and not to
the district policies that allowed the school to cherry-pick students?

Robatoy wrote:
On Dec 17, 6:17 pm, Swingman wrote:
Robatoy wrote:
I once met a beautiful French woman. I was fascinated by her
beauty...till I saw the hairy armpits and legs and smelled the
Gauloises on her clothes.
Early 70's Germany, bathes taken once a week, maybe; German nightclub in
the dead of winter, dancing, everyone wearing wool, deodorant apparently
an "American thing" ...

--www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

Sounds like you were around Garmisch Partenkirchen/Mittemwalt
(Eibsee) area.

Between Regensburg and Nurnberg, lived in Darshofen. Battery in
Hohenfels, Battalion HQ in Grafenwoehr ... winter training/R&R in
Garmisch, tough duty, that!

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

Jules wrote:

I've had a major hankering after a first-generation Celica for a few
months... I'm not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing!


I don't know which generation was which year, but when I came to the US
from Australia at the end of 1977, I saw Celicas that looked
considerably different from - and inferior to -- the ones I had been
seeing in Australia for the past year or two. The internals might have
been the same, but I much preferred the styling of the Australian ones.

Perce

Jules wrote:
On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 11:10:58 -0800, Nonny wrote:

According to the book, "Small Wonder," the beetle was designed by
Dr. Porsche

I believe he "borrowed" a lot of the design from Tatra, though.

And in 1961 VW paid Tatra 3 million DM for that use.

IMHO, if there's any secret
to VW's beetle, it was that they got lots and lots of feedback from
owners bringing the car in with the little glitches.

I don't think it was even that - they just kept the design
mechanically simple and made it easy to swap parts out when needed.

Yep. Ferdinand Porsche and Ed Heinemann would have gotten along--simplify
and add lightness,.


Re. windows, I think the rear split-screen ones were the earliest
ones - in the 50s they dropped the split, and soon after that made
the rear window a lot bigger.

cheers

Jules

"The Daring Dufas" wrote in
message ...
Nonny wrote:
According to the book, "Small Wonder," the beetle was designed
by Dr. Porsche and the basic design was so good that only
refinements were made over its long manufacturing run. IMHO,
if there's any secret to VW's beetle, it was that they got lots
and lots of feedback from owners bringing the car in with the
little glitches. If there was consistency to a glitch, like a
door handle that kept breaking, VW would design a new and
improved one and start using them. The product was continually
refined and improved, within the limitations of the basic
design or concept.

I had an '71 Super Beetle and felt it was an excellent car if
you overlooked the lack of heat in IN/MI winters. grin


I thought there was a gasoline burning heater option for cold
climate
VW Bugs.

TDD

There was a gas heater option for one that came out a few years
after mine, but it was for a top of the line VW sedan, as I
recall. If I'd heard of a heater option for my '71, I sure as the
dickens would have gotten it. grin

--
Nonny

ELOQUIDIOT (n) A highly educated, sophisticated,
and articulate person who has absolutely no clue
concerning what they are talking about.
The person is typically a media commentator or politician.

HeyBub wrote:
Leon wrote:
"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...
J. Clarke wrote:

John Silber, former president of Boston College, was asked what one
thing could be done to improve the quality of education in America.
He answered: "Abolish colleges of education."


Sounds exactly like the typical "former" employee with an ax to grind
would say.

I'd say get rid of public education and all the bureaucracy that
come with it. Privatize it.

Yep. If universal education is felt to be a worthwhile goal, give out
vouchers.

Oh, and before you shrug off John Silber as a disgruntled
ex-employee, you might check his Wikipedia entry. I just did and I
see I made a mistake: He was president of Boston University, not
College.

FWIW, I have a friend who has a PhD in education, and is retired, not fired,
so one can't claim that he is "disgruntled", who shares the opinion that the
flaws in the system are inherent in the educational philosophy currently
being taught in the colleges of education, and in the poltical tendency to
require the schools to provide more and more social functions that are not
rightly part of education.

On the bright side, lawyers fly too.

The old V-tail is a good airplane but you can't overcome
perception so
the went conventional.


It is my vague recollection that the V-tail was one of the early
civilian planes to have a flush riveted wing and was very "clean."
As a result, an inattentive pilot would be flying along and get
into a very shallow dive. Before he got any shuddering, noise or
other indication of speed, he would have far exceeded the "do not
exceed" speed of the airframe. Eventually, he'd notice that he
was going like a bat out of h*ll, and would pull back
instinctively on the stick. The wings would be instantly
overloaded and he'd look up to see them fluttering away.

This is just a recollection from my own flying lesson days, and I
can't say that I can vouch for the source.

--
Nonny

ELOQUIDIOT (n) A highly educated, sophisticated,
and articulate person who has absolutely no clue
concerning what they are talking about.
The person is typically a media commentator or politician.

More challenging, yet, to pronounce those names! I'm sure
the native born Germans do it with very little effort, but
their babies probably aren't fluent until they master
language skills about age of 25 or so. American kids can say
"tookie!" by three or so, but German kids have to wait till
age 9 to say
"vesterveeetenbrznsksixenneeffersonskkinzvichmette rsvinksintinschinscherzveerbroatten"
which translates roughly as "tookie" in English.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Swingman" wrote in message
...

Between Regensburg and Nurnberg, lived in Darshofen. Battery
in
Hohenfels, Battalion HQ in Grafenwoehr ... winter
training/R&R in
Garmisch, tough duty, that!

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

Having owned four Chryslers (three with V8-318, and one with
slant 6-215 CED engine) I nominate them for the POS
category, also.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
...
Subject

Having owned two (2) Beetles and a diesel Rabbit, POS comes
to mind as
an apt description of VW product.

Lew

I doubt that reading high would last for ten years.
Eventually, some meter reader would perform actual reading,
and that would be the end of the schtick.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"LDosser"
wrote in message
...

PGE recently replaced our analog meter with a digital one.
So far it does
not 'phone home' to me and I only look at it when taking out
the trash, but
the odd thing is my usage dropped by about ten percent since
they put it in.
No changes at all in appliances or usage. I'm becoming very
suspicious that
a faulty analog meter or reader's eyeballs have been
charging me an extra
ten percent for years.

On 12/17/2009 1:27 PM J. Clarke spake thus:

David Nebenzahl wrote:

I still say that the Crown Graphic (which I have) is the single best
cost-effective way for people to break into large-format (4x5)
photography, even at this late date. They're still available on eBay
for very reasonable prices, along with fantastic lenses. They may not
be all one would want in a view camera: limited movements, no
rotating back, etc. But compared to the Lexuses and Mercedes of LF
cameras, relatively speaking, they're a great deal. And they were
extremely well-made.

And after Graflex went under, Sakai bought the tooling and continued to make
them for another decade or so in Japan as the Toyo Super Graphic.

And at some point in the US Singer (the sewing-machine company) bought
up Graflex and made them (or had them made) under their name. Not sure
how that worked out w/the Japanese co.

I used to think that such things were quaint anachronisms until I found out
what they could do. Never got into large format myself but one of these
days . . .

They're out there just waiting for you. Film and stuff is still
available too.


--
I am a Canadian who was born and raised in The Netherlands. I live on
Planet Earth on a spot of land called Canada. We have noisy neighbours.

- harvested from Usenet

I sense a US business man who is not at all pleased with the
Chinese at the moment.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

Keeping on top of things is the key. A friend of mine had
a product
made in China. He spec'ed fire-resistant plastic for the
casing. As
soon as his back was turned, they switched to cheaper
plastic and his
house (where he was storing his inventory) burned down as
a result.

Stormin Mormon wrote:

"vesterveeetenbrznsksixenneeffersonskkinzvichmette rsvinksintinschinscherzveerbroatten"
which translates roughly as "tookie" in English.

Sorry, a search of my mind and neither term resulted a document.

I'll bite ... besides, some cRapper, what's a "tookie"?

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

Nonny wrote:

"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message
...
Nonny wrote:
According to the book, "Small Wonder," the beetle was designed by Dr.
Porsche and the basic design was so good that only refinements were
made over its long manufacturing run. IMHO, if there's any secret to
VW's beetle, it was that they got lots and lots of feedback from
owners bringing the car in with the little glitches. If there was
consistency to a glitch, like a door handle that kept breaking, VW
would design a new and improved one and start using them. The
product was continually refined and improved, within the limitations
of the basic design or concept.

I had an '71 Super Beetle and felt it was an excellent car if you
overlooked the lack of heat in IN/MI winters. grin


I thought there was a gasoline burning heater option for cold climate
VW Bugs.

TDD

There was a gas heater option for one that came out a few years after
mine, but it was for a top of the line VW sedan, as I recall. If I'd
heard of a heater option for my '71, I sure as the dickens would have
gotten it. grin


I think I saw them in the J C Whitney auto parts catalog years ago.
Those guys carried everything in the world for vehicles back then.

TDD

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:
"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:

Totally agree with that and I attribute the failure to poor teachers
that don't give a **** and that finally led to teachers that could
not find a job any where else. Long ago when teachers could step
in as a parent and administer discipline he or she could actually
teach. We have lost teachers that actually taught for baby sitters.

Uh, you might want to actually get drunk with a few teachers sometime
before
you blame them. They have to do what they can with what they've got
and what they've got these days isn't much (and I'm not talking
about the kids,
I'm talking about the rules they are required to work under). Wanna
fix education, first shoot all the professors of education and all
the school boards.


It may differ with location but for the most part the teachers you are
describing are what we had 20 years ago, but not in Houston today.
Today they are asking "how to do" from the kids.

Not sure what you mean by "asking how to do", however in some districts
teachers are forbidden to actually teach subject matter--they are
constrained when a kid asks a question to "facilitate" the kid looking it
up
for himself and disciplinary action will be taken against them if they
actually get caught answering the question.

My son's calculus teacher asked the students , how to do, a problem, she
could not figure it out.


I know it is not their fault, the teachers, for the most part the
good ones are long since gone.
And they are gone because they no longer want to be baby sitters
instead of maintaining discipline and actually teaching. Teaching
should also be considered a part of how a child is taught to act and
to respect others. That does not happen any more.
While I agree the restrictions/cigarettes was the root of the
problem.

I don't understand what you think cigarettes have to do with anything. As
for restrictions, it's not just "restrictions", its a whole mass of
bureaucrat-mandated bull****.

I was making a compairison, cigaretts/cancer, It started with restrictions,
then came the bureaucrat crap and eventually the cancer spread to the
teachers.



However the teachers are not the cause. They don't make the decisions.
They don't make the policies.

Don't recall saying the teachers were the cause but they have been sucked in
and have become part of the problem. The kids are more intelligent than
most of the teachers these days in the HISD.


You could staff the schools with a who's who of American leadership and
they
wouldn't be any better than they are now because they'd be operating under
the same rules.

That is right and the good ones eventually leave. Those that can't do
anything else or are in it for the benefits remain.


When there's something wrong with a huge organization, it's not the peons
at
the bottom who are causing it.

Correct, not the cause but do become part of the problem.


The HS my son went to was an exception to the norm, that school had
"good" teachers and there was not a discipline problem.

And this is symptomatic of the problem. Every parent knows that the
schools
are broken, but the one that their little darling went to was an
exception.

The only decent ones my son went to was the private school K-2 and the HS
9-12, the other 3 sucked.



That public
HS was by invitation only. The only requirement to be invited to
attend that school was that you needed to have a "Satisfactory"
average, for conduct, that's it. If a student became a discipline
problem they were warned once and the second time transferred to one
of the other HS's in the district.

So the teachers at that school weren't any better than the ones in the
other
schools, they just made the problem kids somebody else's problem. So do
you
think that those same teachers would have done nearly as well at one of
the
other schools?

Yeah they were better teachers. There was a waiting list for them to get
into the school. Problem kids were few and very far in between. My son
knew of "1" in the school, a frined of his, and he tas transferred out.




When my son began at that HS the school had grades 9-12. In all four
grade levels there were only 650 students. I would estimate that in
the other 3 HS's that there were in excess of 10K and that is a very
conservative estimate. Out of all of those students approximately
150 were invited each year to attend Kerr HS.

And from that you conclude that the _teachers_ at those other schools are
the problem?

"Part" of the problem and the ones we delt with, 3-8 grades seem
comfortable with that. They did not care for 3 way meetings with the
principal however.


Kerr HS taught the kids how to prepare for college every day. There
was no week off to study for the TAAS test, which is a Texas thing to
judge how the students are coming along for their grade level. His
middle school took a week every year to review for that test. IIRC
the year my son graduated 95% of the students had been accepted to a
college. IIRC 87% of those students had been awarded scholarships of
$15K or more.

And this is because the teachers were so brilliant you think.

I would not say brillinat so much as above average and the teachers had
nothing to do with obtaining the scolarships. That was all on the kids to
do the leg work.
The system was totally different in that school all the way up to the
principal. Teachers were allowed to teach and they did teach. And yes most
all of the teachers in that school were impressive, even to the kids.
Remember, the good teachers were lined up to get into Kerr. They wanted to
teach there, that came out at every PTA meeting.

In the other schools the teachers reminded me of typical "government
workers", there for the benefits.
I know that their attitudes were not all their fault, the system is to blame
but many of those teachers were like many of the kids, lost. You know when
the system sucks badly enough and you cannot attract good help because of
that fact you settle for less than desirable to fill the classrooms. That
is what I saw.


I'm certain that the education that my son received at Kerr HS played
a very major roll in him transitioning so smoothly into college. I
recall the 10th graders mentoring the incoming 9th graders and most
of them were high achievers. Life transitioning into Kerr HS was a
bigger challenge for my son than going from that HS into college. I
am also certain that Kerr HS played a major part in my son getting
into the Honors College his first year at the university and
graduating with a 4 year average GPA of 3.87.

And all of this you attribute to the excellence of the teachers and not to
the district policies that allowed the school to cherry-pick students?

Do you call only accepting students with at least "Satisfactory" conduct
grade cherry picking? Let me mention also that younger borthers and
sisters were also accepted regardless of the conduct grade.

Many of thse kids were not brilliant but they certainly shined when they
graduated.

Stormin Mormon wrote:

Having owned four Chryslers (three with V8-318, and one with
slant 6-215 CED engine) I nominate them for the POS
category, also.

Our '02 Chrysler 300M has done 95K miles and has been very reliable. Our
'96 Dodge Stratus ES (Mitsu****ty engine), however, was a whole 'nother
story.

Perce

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...

FWIW, I have a friend who has a PhD in education, and is retired, not
fired,
so one can't claim that he is "disgruntled", who shares the opinion that
the
flaws in the system are inherent in the educational philosophy currently
being taught in the colleges of education, and in the poltical tendency to
require the schools to provide more and more social functions that are not
rightly part of education.


So what was he doing to remedy the situation?

Having lost sight of our objectives, we redoubled our
efforts (funding).

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"J. Clarke"
wrote in message ...

FWIW, I have a friend who has a PhD in education, and is
retired, not fired,
so one can't claim that he is "disgruntled", who shares the
opinion that the
flaws in the system are inherent in the educational
philosophy currently
being taught in the colleges of education, and in the
poltical tendency to
require the schools to provide more and more social
functions that are not
rightly part of education.

When one is under four years old, that's what it sounds when
said child asks for "cookie".

The slightly longer word is what German kids have to learn,
usually by age 9, to get fed.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Swingman" wrote in message
...
Stormin Mormon wrote:

"vesterveeetenbrznsksixenneeffersonskkinzvichmette rsvinksintinschinscherzveerbroatten"
which translates roughly as "tookie" in English.

Sorry, a search of my mind and neither term resulted a
document.

I'll bite ... besides, some cRapper, what's a "tookie"?

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 20:16:04 -0500, "Percival P. Cassidy"
wrote:

Stormin Mormon wrote:

Having owned four Chryslers (three with V8-318, and one with
slant 6-215 CED engine) I nominate them for the POS
category, also.

Our '02 Chrysler 300M has done 95K miles and has been very reliable. Our
'96 Dodge Stratus ES (Mitsu****ty engine), however, was a whole 'nother
story.

I had an '85 and '90 Voyager, a '93 Eagle Vision TSi (Intrepid class
from Jeep), a '96 Chrysler Intrepid. None of them made it to 100k mi.
Definitely POS category, though I loved driving the Vision.

JC Whitney was also known to mess up orders, and be
completely unresponsive about repairing the mess up. Just
one man's experience.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"The Daring Dufas" wrote
in message ...

There was a gas heater option for one that came out a few
years after
mine, but it was for a top of the line VW sedan, as I
recall. If I'd
heard of a heater option for my '71, I sure as the dickens
would have
gotten it. grin


I think I saw them in the J C Whitney auto parts catalog
years ago.
Those guys carried everything in the world for vehicles back
then.

TDD

On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 14:31:12 -0600, "Leon"
wrote:


"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
rs.com...
On 12/17/2009 6:42 AM J. Clarke spake thus:

Leon wrote:

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
...

Your reefer may be in the same mode.

Reefer? ;~)

Navy talk for "refrigerator".

Also a railroading term.

Also trucking (same same).

Also a Dope term.....

Definitely not as cold.

Mine were 1974 Dodge Dart, 1980 Dodge van "green one", and
1979 Dodge van "white one". Think the next was 1985 "white
two". After my first Dodge, I swore I'd never buy another.
Three more Dodges later, I've succeeded. Now have two
Chevrolet products that I drive.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote in message
...
Stormin Mormon wrote:

Having owned four Chryslers (three with V8-318, and one
with
slant 6-215 CED engine) I nominate them for the POS
category, also.

Our '02 Chrysler 300M has done 95K miles and has been very
reliable. Our
'96 Dodge Stratus ES (Mitsu****ty engine), however, was a
whole 'nother
story.

Perce

On Dec 17, 7:45*am, "Leon" wrote:
"Swingman" wrote in message

news


Over 60 years ago one of the most reliable and efficient automobiles known
to mankind, and to this day the best selling car in history, hit the
ground running *... the "Volkswagen".

I will have to disagree with you there. *Kim and I bought a new 99 Jetta, it
left her stranded on the freeway 3 times under warranty the first 18 months,
and a dead battery replaced under warranty. *That was the Mexico built
vehicle. *Towed into the dealership and "no problem found " on the 3 rd time
we immediately traded for a German built 2000 Passat. *We almost kept it 4
years. *While we had it, it left Kim stranded 2 times, once was a faulty
starter relay, the second time another dead battery replaced by me. *Then
there were numerous emissions problems, the need to replace both outer tie
rod ends at 30K, and the heater core at 43K. *The transmission was showing
signs of failure. Traded for the 04 Accord at 47K. * Both vehicles were
serviced more often than recommended by the dealer. *The 99 Jetta and 2000
Passat were serviced/oil changed at 3K *VW recommended every 10K. *After
trading the Passat we got a factory letter rewording service intervals for
the turbo, every 3K and with synthetic oil. *I saw that coming.

I bought the VW's on their past reputation.

Maybe my first VW's were a fluke but I'll probably never buy another.



Sheessh, it's sad, this total failure of the educational system and the
resultant ignorance!

Totally agree with that and I attribute the failure to poor teachers that
don't give a **** and that finally led to teachers that could not find a job
any where else. * Long ago when teachers could step in as a parent and
administer discipline he or she could actually teach. *We have lost teachers
that actually taught for baby sitters.

The true failure are the parents who do not support the teacher.

When there is no value placed on education at home, there will be no
learning at school.

TMT

On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 17:51:01 -0600, "Leon"
wrote:


"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
. ..

"Leon" wrote:

Crap Lew, I am bored so I am going to come back with an answer that you
are going to "owe me one" for. I'll be prepairing to duck.

Why would I need an electric hot water heater? ;~)


I give up.

Lew


"hot" water heater? I only need a "water heater". ;!) Iknow, I know, it
reheats relatively hot water, but would a hot water heater work if it were
full of cold water?

Why would you want electric water, whether it be hot or cold?

On Dec 17, 9:06*am, notbob wrote:
On 2009-12-17, Lew Hodgett wrote:

Your reefer may be in the same mode.

But, is paying $800 for a more efficient ....read energy conserving,
not colder.... gonna save you any money? *Not likely before it dies
and you need to spend another $800 another new one. *

nb

It will when you end up paying the true cost of the energy used.

TMT

On Dec 17, 9:29*am, Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,





*"Leon" wrote:
"Swingman" wrote in message
m...
Leon wrote:
Snip

I bought the VW's on their past reputation.

The "Volkswagen", the original design, is what I was talking about. Not
the price point engineered models they started making to woo and placate
the American consumer with the junk they prefer.

Exactly!

The original VW bug was inexpensive to buy, and relatively inexpensive
to repair. That is hardly the same as being reliable.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The equivalent of the Ford Model T in postwar Germany.

TMT

Leon wrote:
"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...

FWIW, I have a friend who has a PhD in education, and is retired, not
fired,
so one can't claim that he is "disgruntled", who shares the opinion
that the
flaws in the system are inherent in the educational philosophy
currently being taught in the colleges of education, and in the
poltical tendency to require the schools to provide more and more
social functions that are not rightly part of education.


So what was he doing to remedy the situation?

What do you think he _can_ do? It's easy to recognize that the carrier is
aground. Getting it off the rocks is a lot harder.

On Dec 17, 9:08*am, "J. Clarke" wrote:
Leon wrote:
"Swingman" wrote in message
news

Over 60 years ago one of the most reliable and efficient automobiles
known to mankind, and to this day the best selling car in history,
hit the ground running *... the "Volkswagen".

I will have to disagree with you there. *Kim and I bought a new 99
Jetta, it left her stranded on the freeway 3 times under warranty the
first 18 months, and a dead battery replaced under warranty. *That
was the Mexico built vehicle. *Towed into the dealership and "no
problem found " on the 3 rd time we immediately traded for a German
built 2000 Passat. *We almost kept it 4 years. *While we had it, it
left Kim stranded 2 times, once was a faulty starter relay, the
second time another dead battery replaced by me. *Then there were
numerous emissions problems, the need to replace both outer tie rod
ends at 30K, and the heater core at 43K. *The transmission was
showing signs of failure. Traded for the 04 Accord at 47K. * Both
vehicles were serviced more often than recommended by the dealer.
The 99 Jetta and 2000 Passat were serviced/oil changed at 3K *VW
recommended every 10K. *After trading the Passat we got a factory
letter rewording service intervals for the turbo, every 3K and with
synthetic oil. *I saw that coming.

I bought the VW's on their past reputation.

Maybe my first VW's were a fluke but I'll probably never buy another.

You folks who are going on about "Rabbits" and "Jettas" and suchlike are
missing the point.

THE Volkswagen, the Type I, aka the Beetle, aka the Porsche Type 60, was in
continuous production for over 60 years with more than 20 million built,
both the longest and largest production runs in automotive history.

Sheessh, it's sad, this total failure of the educational system and
the resultant ignorance!

Totally agree with that and I attribute the failure to poor teachers
that don't give a **** and that finally led to teachers that could
not find a job any where else. * Long ago when teachers could step in
as a parent and administer discipline he or she could actually teach.
We have lost teachers that actually taught for baby sitters.

Uh, you might want to actually get drunk with a few teachers sometime before
you blame them. *They have to do what they can with what they've got and
what they've got these days isn't much (and I'm not talking about the kids,
I'm talking about the rules they are required to work under). *Wanna fix
education, first shoot all the professors of education and all the school
boards.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Try volunteering in a school for awhile and you will have your eyes
opened.

The problem starts at home.

And the parents are Ground Zero for that problem.

TMT

Stormin Mormon wrote:
Mine were 1974 Dodge Dart, 1980 Dodge van "green one", and
1979 Dodge van "white one". Think the next was 1985 "white
two". After my first Dodge, I swore I'd never buy another.
Three more Dodges later, I've succeeded. Now have two
Chevrolet products that I drive.


I have a 01 Dodge PU ... beginning to rethink the decision, a little late.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

Leon wrote:
"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:
"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:

Totally agree with that and I attribute the failure to poor
teachers that don't give a **** and that finally led to teachers
that could not find a job any where else. Long ago when
teachers could step in as a parent and administer discipline he
or she could actually teach. We have lost teachers that actually
taught for baby sitters.

Uh, you might want to actually get drunk with a few teachers
sometime before
you blame them. They have to do what they can with what they've
got and what they've got these days isn't much (and I'm not talking
about the kids,
I'm talking about the rules they are required to work under).
Wanna fix education, first shoot all the professors of education
and all the school boards.


It may differ with location but for the most part the teachers you
are describing are what we had 20 years ago, but not in Houston
today. Today they are asking "how to do" from the kids.

Not sure what you mean by "asking how to do", however in some
districts teachers are forbidden to actually teach subject
matter--they are constrained when a kid asks a question to
"facilitate" the kid looking it up
for himself and disciplinary action will be taken against them if
they actually get caught answering the question.

My son's calculus teacher asked the students , how to do, a problem,
she could not figure it out.

Could they figure it out? If so then she had done her job well. When a
student can do something the teacher can't then the teacher has succeeded.

I know it is not their fault, the teachers, for the most part the
good ones are long since gone.
And they are gone because they no longer want to be baby sitters
instead of maintaining discipline and actually teaching. Teaching
should also be considered a part of how a child is taught to act and
to respect others. That does not happen any more.
While I agree the restrictions/cigarettes was the root of the
problem.

I don't understand what you think cigarettes have to do with
anything. As for restrictions, it's not just "restrictions", its a
whole mass of bureaucrat-mandated bull****.

I was making a compairison, cigaretts/cancer, It started with
restrictions, then came the bureaucrat crap and eventually the cancer
spread to the teachers.

I'm not following you.

However the teachers are not the cause. They don't make the
decisions. They don't make the policies.

Don't recall saying the teachers were the cause but they have been
sucked in and have become part of the problem. The kids are more
intelligent than most of the teachers these days in the HISD.

I was more intelligent than most of my teachers through high school back in
the '60s, or thought I was. I did know more about quite a lot. But they
were doing what was required of them.

You could staff the schools with a who's who of American leadership
and they
wouldn't be any better than they are now because they'd be operating
under the same rules.

That is right and the good ones eventually leave. Those that can't do
anything else or are in it for the benefits remain.


When there's something wrong with a huge organization, it's not the
peons at
the bottom who are causing it.

Correct, not the cause but do become part of the problem.


The HS my son went to was an exception to the norm, that school had
"good" teachers and there was not a discipline problem.

And this is symptomatic of the problem. Every parent knows that the
schools
are broken, but the one that their little darling went to was an
exception.

The only decent ones my son went to was the private school K-2 and
the HS 9-12, the other 3 sucked.



That public
HS was by invitation only. The only requirement to be invited to
attend that school was that you needed to have a "Satisfactory"
average, for conduct, that's it. If a student became a discipline
problem they were warned once and the second time transferred to one
of the other HS's in the district.

So the teachers at that school weren't any better than the ones in
the other
schools, they just made the problem kids somebody else's problem.
So do you
think that those same teachers would have done nearly as well at one
of the
other schools?

Yeah they were better teachers. There was a waiting list for them to
get into the school. Problem kids were few and very far in between.
My son knew of "1" in the school, a frined of his, and he tas
transferred out.

How do you know they were better teachers? Do you have results of some kind
of teaching competition or something?

When my son began at that HS the school had grades 9-12. In all
four grade levels there were only 650 students. I would estimate
that in the other 3 HS's that there were in excess of 10K and that
is a very conservative estimate. Out of all of those students
approximately 150 were invited each year to attend Kerr HS.

And from that you conclude that the _teachers_ at those other
schools are the problem?

"Part" of the problem and the ones we delt with, 3-8 grades seem
comfortable with that. They did not care for 3 way meetings with the
principal however.

I'm curious about what those meetings were typically about,.

Kerr HS taught the kids how to prepare for college every day. There
was no week off to study for the TAAS test, which is a Texas thing
to judge how the students are coming along for their grade level.
His middle school took a week every year to review for that test.
IIRC the year my son graduated 95% of the students had been
accepted to a college. IIRC 87% of those students had been awarded
scholarships of $15K or more.

And this is because the teachers were so brilliant you think.

I would not say brillinat so much as above average and the teachers
had nothing to do with obtaining the scolarships. That was all on
the kids to do the leg work.
The system was totally different in that school all the way up to the
principal. Teachers were allowed to teach and they did teach. And
yes most all of the teachers in that school were impressive, even to
the kids. Remember, the good teachers were lined up to get into Kerr.
They wanted to teach there, that came out at every PTA meeting.

In the other schools the teachers reminded me of typical "government
workers", there for the benefits.
I know that their attitudes were not all their fault, the system is
to blame but many of those teachers were like many of the kids, lost.
You know when the system sucks badly enough and you cannot attract
good help because of that fact you settle for less than desirable to
fill the classrooms. That is what I saw.

So we've got one school that cherry-picked the whole system and managed to
do well for a handful of kids. So how do you make that work for the rest of
the system?

I'm certain that the education that my son received at Kerr HS
played a very major roll in him transitioning so smoothly into
college. I recall the 10th graders mentoring the incoming 9th
graders and most of them were high achievers. Life transitioning
into Kerr HS was a bigger challenge for my son than going from that
HS into college. I am also certain that Kerr HS played a major
part in my son getting into the Honors College his first year at
the university and graduating with a 4 year average GPA of 3.87.

And all of this you attribute to the excellence of the teachers and
not to the district policies that allowed the school to cherry-pick
students?

Do you call only accepting students with at least "Satisfactory"
conduct grade cherry picking?

Did they accept every student in the district who had such a grade?

Let me mention also that younger
borthers and sisters were also accepted regardless of the conduct
grade.

So what percentage of students in the district were these?


Many of thse kids were not brilliant but they certainly shined when
they graduated.

On Dec 17, 2:25*pm, "Leon" wrote:
"HeyBub" wrote in message

m...

J. Clarke wrote:

John Silber, former president of Boston College, was asked what one thing
could be done to improve the quality of education in America. He answered:
"Abolish colleges of education."

Sounds exactly like the typical "former" employee with an ax to grind would
say.

I'd say get rid of public education and all the *bureaucracy that come with
it. *Privatize it.

And fine the parents for Johnny's poor performance when it occurs.

TMT

Too_Many_Tools wrote:
On Dec 17, 7:45 am, "Leon" wrote:
"Swingman" wrote in message

news


Over 60 years ago one of the most reliable and efficient
automobiles known to mankind, and to this day the best selling car
in history, hit the ground running ... the "Volkswagen".

I will have to disagree with you there. Kim and I bought a new 99
Jetta, it left her stranded on the freeway 3 times under warranty
the first 18 months, and a dead battery replaced under warranty.
That was the Mexico built vehicle. Towed into the dealership and "no
problem found " on the 3 rd time we immediately traded for a German
built 2000 Passat. We almost kept it 4 years. While we had it, it
left Kim stranded 2 times, once was a faulty starter relay, the
second time another dead battery replaced by me. Then there were
numerous emissions problems, the need to replace both outer tie rod
ends at 30K, and the heater core at 43K. The transmission was
showing signs of failure. Traded for the 04 Accord at 47K. Both
vehicles were serviced more often than recommended by the dealer.
The 99 Jetta and 2000 Passat were serviced/oil changed at 3K VW
recommended every 10K. After trading the Passat we got a factory
letter rewording service intervals for the turbo, every 3K and with
synthetic oil. I saw that coming.

I bought the VW's on their past reputation.

Maybe my first VW's were a fluke but I'll probably never buy another.



Sheessh, it's sad, this total failure of the educational system and
the resultant ignorance!

Totally agree with that and I attribute the failure to poor teachers
that don't give a **** and that finally led to teachers that could
not find a job any where else. Long ago when teachers could step in
as a parent and administer discipline he or she could actually
teach. We have lost teachers that actually taught for baby sitters.

The true failure are the parents who do not support the teacher.

When there is no value placed on education at home, there will be no
learning at school.

Yeah, blame everybody but the bureaucrats who keep piling more and more and
more crap on the schools.


TMT

On 12/17/2009 8:37 AM Robatoy spake thus:

On Dec 17, 11:08 am, Swingman wrote:

Smitty Two wrote:

The original VW bug was inexpensive to buy, and relatively inexpensive
to repair. That is hardly the same as being reliable.

You obviously never owned one ... the original was one of the most
reliable automobiles ever made and their longevity is ample proof of
that "reliability".

'Reliability' is often confused with 'how-long-can-a-car-run-without-
proper-maintenance.'
If you changed the oil and set the tappets on an old Bug, on a regular
basis, those engines would run forever.

Exactamente.

I had an old bus ('65 w/a Super Beetle engine) that I drove from coast
to coast. It finally died, but nearly everything bad that happened to it
was my fault, even though I otherwise took very good care of it. (Like
the hole corroded through the floor of the engine compartment next to
the battery that allowed mud and wet sand to get sucked into the
generator driving through a rainstorm in New Mexico, killing it. No
mystery there.)

With old VWs, one had to be fairly religious about changing the oil,
adjusting the valves and setting the ignition timing every 3K miles or
so. And while my bus obviously couldn't charge uphill like a Hummer, it
was more than sufficiently powered for most situations. (Keep in mind
that the buses were geared lower than bugs, so one got a little more
oomph out of them at the expense of top-end speed.)

I rebuilt the engine myself, previously knowing nothing at all about
cars, using the "Complete Idiot" book as a guide. I ended up fancying up
the engine a bit; oversize (1650 cc) cylinders, plus an external oil
cooler which was a really good thing for driving through the desert.
(Plus scoops over the rear air intakes and a mechanical oil temperature
gauge.)

I can vouch that the old VWs were, in fact, reliable. (If taken care of.)


--
I am a Canadian who was born and raised in The Netherlands. I live on
Planet Earth on a spot of land called Canada. We have noisy neighbours.

- harvested from Usenet

Too_Many_Tools wrote:
On Dec 17, 9:08 am, "J. Clarke" wrote:
Leon wrote:
"Swingman" wrote in message
news

Over 60 years ago one of the most reliable and efficient
automobiles known to mankind, and to this day the best selling car
in history, hit the ground running ... the "Volkswagen".

I will have to disagree with you there. Kim and I bought a new 99
Jetta, it left her stranded on the freeway 3 times under warranty
the first 18 months, and a dead battery replaced under warranty.
That was the Mexico built vehicle. Towed into the dealership and "no
problem found " on the 3 rd time we immediately traded for a German
built 2000 Passat. We almost kept it 4 years. While we had it, it
left Kim stranded 2 times, once was a faulty starter relay, the
second time another dead battery replaced by me. Then there were
numerous emissions problems, the need to replace both outer tie rod
ends at 30K, and the heater core at 43K. The transmission was
showing signs of failure. Traded for the 04 Accord at 47K. Both
vehicles were serviced more often than recommended by the dealer.
The 99 Jetta and 2000 Passat were serviced/oil changed at 3K VW
recommended every 10K. After trading the Passat we got a factory
letter rewording service intervals for the turbo, every 3K and with
synthetic oil. I saw that coming.

I bought the VW's on their past reputation.

Maybe my first VW's were a fluke but I'll probably never buy
another.

You folks who are going on about "Rabbits" and "Jettas" and suchlike
are missing the point.

THE Volkswagen, the Type I, aka the Beetle, aka the Porsche Type 60,
was in continuous production for over 60 years with more than 20
million built, both the longest and largest production runs in
automotive history.

Sheessh, it's sad, this total failure of the educational system and
the resultant ignorance!

Totally agree with that and I attribute the failure to poor teachers
that don't give a **** and that finally led to teachers that could
not find a job any where else. Long ago when teachers could step in
as a parent and administer discipline he or she could actually
teach. We have lost teachers that actually taught for baby sitters.

Uh, you might want to actually get drunk with a few teachers
sometime before you blame them. They have to do what they can with
what they've got and what they've got these days isn't much (and I'm
not talking about the kids, I'm talking about the rules they are
required to work under). Wanna fix education, first shoot all the
professors of education and all the school boards.- Hide quoted text
-

- Show quoted text -

Try volunteering in a school for awhile and you will have your eyes
opened.

The problem starts at home.

And the parents are Ground Zero for that problem.

So your solution to the problem is what, shoot all the parents?


TMT

"Swingman" wrote in message
...
Robatoy wrote:

I once met a beautiful French woman. I was fascinated by her
beauty...till I saw the hairy armpits and legs and smelled the
Gauloises on her clothes.

Early 70's Germany, bathes taken once a week, maybe; German nightclub in
the dead of winter, dancing, everyone wearing wool, deodorant apparently
an "American thing" ...

The Tube in London, early sixties. Would have been Pleasant if the Blokes
had bathed once a week. Deodorant???

"Leon" wrote in message
...

"LDosser" wrote in message
...

PGE recently replaced our analog meter with a digital one. So far it does
not 'phone home' to me and I only look at it when taking out the trash,
but the odd thing is my usage dropped by about ten percent since they put
it in. No changes at all in appliances or usage. I'm becoming very
suspicious that a faulty analog meter or reader's eyeballs have been
charging me an extra ten percent for years.


I'd suspect a faulty meter over being misread. While a meter is easily
misread it is usually corrected on the following read. If you are seeing
longer term less usage it sounds like the old meter was not being nice to
you.

I suspect so. I'm going to have a wee chat with them if the next couple of
bills bear me out. Perhaps we can come to a reasonable accomodation.
"Reasonable" being I don't tell channel 2.


My meter comunicated with the thermostat and then through the modem to
give the power company the information. The meter readers would give that
meter the strangest looks as it was not readabel IIRC, the modem was the
link to my billing.

I'm not sure what this one does or how it does it. Might be good to find
out. Be neat to have an easier way to figure out what is going on with
usage.

"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
...
Snip



Try volunteering in a school for awhile and you will have your eyes
opened.

The problem starts at home.

Totally agree with that statement. We want to keep up with the Jones'
although we don't have the education or aptitude to do that so both of us
have to work to keep up, and we still want 3.8 children, but we don't have
the time to supervise them. We want the school to do their share in raising
our children but don't do any thing to hurt their feelings or discipline
them more so than we would.

The ones in charge mostly being elected into the position and those that
have the powers to appoint positions really don't care if the education
system/factory turns out a smart child or not. They are supervising/baby
sitting for the parents, the ones too busy to properly watch over their own
children.

The teachers eat poo. They have to deal with the bureaucracy, don't scold
Mary, don't make Juan learn or speak English, make sure every one gets a
trophy, make sure they are taught the achievement tests, waste time with
kids that need a whoopin but their parents will not give them one. And for
God's sake don't show any extra attention to those that have true potential.

The good teachers find better jobs with less stress and a job that means
something, something they can proud to have been a part of. The good
teachers go to private schools where nonsense discipline matters get handled
and not shuffled into the next class.

Eventually the good teachers are very few and far in between. Not so many
fresh college graduate teachers have the maturity to deal with the politics.
The good ones find a better job.

Slowly but surely the school system becomes filled with "not so many" good
teachers and yet there are still lots of teacher in the public education
system. These teachers unfortunately are also a casualty of the system.
Fewer and fewer qualified teachers are attracted to the public school system
and finally the system takes what it can get.

What the system gets becomes another aspect of the problem and the cancer
spreads.



And the parents are Ground Zero for that problem.

Greed!

TMT