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#1
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Rethinking "Made in China"
This post is aimed at all you sinophobes out there.
I'm getting a little tired of hearing the complaint "___ is a piece of ****: what do you expect? It's made in China!". Now it is true that a lot of crap--boatloads of it, literally--does come from that great country. We've all seen it, used it, chucked it out. But bear in mind the historical precedent: some of you are probably old enough to remember the similar tarring of anything that had the label "Made in Japan" on it. Anything Japanese was considered worthless. Compare to today. I'm finding more and more that "Made in China" really doesn't mean anything about the quality of an item. Clearly, Chinese workers, as underpaid as they may be, are quite capable of making anything as well as anyone else in any other part of the world. Part of the problem is that we're placing blame in the wrong place. The *real* problem seems to be "Made in [anyplace] but designed in the U.S. [or some other place]". A lot, if not most, of what I would call "Chinese junk" is actually made as well as the design would allow for, including the materials used and the amount of labor committed to finishing the item. So in many cases Chinese factories are making faithful copies of a ****ty design that may well have come from some designer's computah right here in The Greatest Industrial Power on Earth (the US of A). I predict the Chinese are following the same arc that the Japanese did after WWII, with variations, of course; there's no Marshall Plan, and the countries are vastly different. Nonetheless, I can forsee the day when "Made in China" is no longer a call for derision. By way of showing just how wrong people can be when predicting who's winning the industrial game, here's a hilariously and astoundingly wrong prediction about the Japanese and American photographic industries from 1946: http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-136.html -- I am a Canadian who was born and raised in The Netherlands. I live on Planet Earth on a spot of land called Canada. We have noisy neighbours. - harvested from Usenet |
#2
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Rethinking "Made in China"
On 12/16/2009 01:39 PM, David Nebenzahl wrote:
I'm finding more and more that "Made in China" really doesn't mean anything about the quality of an item. Clearly, Chinese workers, as underpaid as they may be, are quite capable of making anything as well as anyone else in any other part of the world. True. However, going by various comments written by people in the industry, there also seems to be a cultural impetus to try and push the lower boundaries of the quality standards. So if a Chinese factory contracts for a given level of quality there is a tendency for that level to drop over time unless the company that hired them keeps on top of things. I suspect this holds true to a certain extent in many places, but he impression that I have gotten (from various places) is that this is worse when dealing with Chinese manufacturers. Chris |
#3
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Rethinking "Made in China"
David Nebenzahl wrote:
I'm getting a little tired of hearing the complaint "___ is a piece of ****: what do you expect? It's made in China!". You mean like drywall, C-Less' "64GB USB Drive", and the stuff at Harbor Fright? A rose by any other name ... **** China, and "Made in USA", for that matter ... I'm buying "European" like Laguna, Festool, Omer, et al products every chance I get these days. I want value for what few of my hard earned $$ I get to keep, not some price point engineered POS with an advertising budget. -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 10/22/08 KarlC@ (the obvious) |
#4
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Rethinking "Made in China"
On 12/16/2009 02:09 PM, Swingman wrote:
David Nebenzahl wrote: I'm getting a little tired of hearing the complaint "___ is a piece of ****: what do you expect? It's made in China!". You mean like drywall, C-Less' "64GB USB Drive", and the stuff at Harbor Fright? A rose by any other name ... **** China, and "Made in USA", for that matter ... I'm buying "European" like Laguna, Festool, Omer, et al products every chance I get these days. Funny you mention Laguna...some of their stuff is made in China. What about Lie-Nielsen and Starrett? Or General and Veritas and Oneway from Canada? Chris |
#5
Posted to alt.home.repair,rec.woodworking
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Rethinking "Made in China"
David Nebenzahl wrote:
This post is aimed at all you sinophobes out there. I'm getting a little tired of hearing the complaint "___ is a piece of ****: what do you expect? It's made in China!". Now it is true that a lot of crap--boatloads of it, literally--does come from that great country. We've all seen it, used it, chucked it out. But bear in mind the historical precedent: some of you are probably old enough to remember the similar tarring of anything that had the label "Made in Japan" on it. Anything Japanese was considered worthless. Compare to today. I'm finding more and more that "Made in China" really doesn't mean anything about the quality of an item. Clearly, Chinese workers, as underpaid as they may be, are quite capable of making anything as well as anyone else in any other part of the world. Part of the problem is that we're placing blame in the wrong place. The *real* problem seems to be "Made in [anyplace] but designed in the U.S. [or some other place]". A lot, if not most, of what I would call "Chinese junk" is actually made as well as the design would allow for, Anyone who wants to sell anything in a competing market has to make it as cheaply as can be done in Mexico, China, Bangladesh, etc....what they make is done under an entirely different labor economy (and socialized medicine, probably). But you know that already. including the materials used and the amount of labor committed to finishing the item. So in many cases Chinese factories are making faithful copies of a ****ty design that may well have come from some designer's computah right here in The Greatest Industrial Power on Earth (the US of A). I predict the Chinese are following the same arc that the Japanese did after WWII, with variations, of course; there's no Marshall Plan, and the countries are vastly different. Nonetheless, I can forsee the day when "Made in China" is no longer a call for derision. By way of showing just how wrong people can be when predicting who's winning the industrial game, here's a hilariously and astoundingly wrong prediction about the Japanese and American photographic industries from 1946: http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-136.html When I was a little kid, we always included "the starving children in China" in our prayers (hadn't discovered Africa yet). Just to show how times have changed.....just the other day, this wonderful, sweet missionary knocked on our door. He handed me $5, a bag of rice and a dead duck. He didn't speak clear English, but left a pamphlet in Chinese and badly translated English inviting all of the neighborhood children to Buddhist services. It also mentioned that all the neighborhood children would be welcome at classes to learn to speak and write Chinese, gardening, raising livestock, building inexpensive housing, cooking with a wok, using alternative fuels, and respect for elders. It also said that the Chinese had saved so much money, they were buying America and sending homesteaders over to run the country properly. ;o) |
#6
Posted to alt.home.repair,rec.woodworking
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Rethinking "Made in China"
On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 11:39:07 -0800, David Nebenzahl wrote:
This post is aimed at all you sinophobes out there. I'm getting a little tired of hearing the complaint "___ is a piece of ****: what do you expect? It's made in China!". They'll build what they're paid to build, no more and no less. There are talented folk there, same as anywhere else - but if people want to pay for crap that breaks after a few months so that they then have to go out and buy more crap, then that's what the Chinese will happily make... Problem is, *everyone* does it. It's almost impossible for a company to exist on the basis of making a 'quality' product any more - which means that even if the individual wants to pay extra for something that'll last, the product simply doesn't exist. cheers Jules |
#7
Posted to alt.home.repair,rec.woodworking
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Rethinking "Made in China"
Jules wrote:
They'll build what they're paid to build, no more and no less. There are talented folk there, same as anywhere else They are excellent copy cats, but there is NOTHING like European engineering for built-in quality, from handsaws and screwdrivers, to spaceships. -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 10/22/08 KarlC@ (the obvious) |
#8
Posted to alt.home.repair,rec.woodworking
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Rethinking "Made in China"
Swingman wrote:
Jules wrote: They'll build what they're paid to build, no more and no less. There are talented folk there, same as anywhere else They are excellent copy cats, but there is NOTHING like European engineering for built-in quality, from handsaws and screwdrivers, to spaceships. The Europeans built a spaceship? I think Flash Gordon was an American... Last I heard, the Europeans were trying to put up their own GPS satellite system - for reasons passing understanding. |
#9
Posted to alt.home.repair,rec.woodworking
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Rethinking "Made in China"
On Dec 16, 4:20*pm, Swingman wrote:
Jules wrote: They'll build what they're paid to build, no more and no less. There are talented folk there, same as anywhere else They are excellent copy cats, but there is NOTHING like European engineering for built-in quality, from handsaws and screwdrivers, to spaceships. Yeah, Japanese saws suck. |
#10
Posted to alt.home.repair,rec.woodworking
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Rethinking "Made in China"
David Nebenzahl wrote:
snip I predict the Chinese are following the same arc that the Japanese did after WWII, with variations, of course; there's no Marshall Plan, and the countries are vastly different. Nonetheless, I can forsee the day when "Made in China" is no longer a call for derision. By way of showing just how wrong people can be when predicting who's winning the industrial game, here's a hilariously and astoundingly wrong prediction about the Japanese and American photographic industries from 1946: http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-136.html In UK in the late 1950s already, when I was becoming seriously interested in photography, I don't think any American cameras were considered high quality. The really good stuff was Leica (German) and Hasselblad (Swedish? -- both mucho expensivo). Praktica (E. German) was OK. Some of the Japanese brands were coming onto the market, IIRC. I'm not sure that Kodak was considered a serious photographer's camera. Perce |
#11
Posted to alt.home.repair,rec.woodworking
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Rethinking "Made in China"
Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
David Nebenzahl wrote: snip I predict the Chinese are following the same arc that the Japanese did after WWII, with variations, of course; there's no Marshall Plan, and the countries are vastly different. Nonetheless, I can forsee the day when "Made in China" is no longer a call for derision. By way of showing just how wrong people can be when predicting who's winning the industrial game, here's a hilariously and astoundingly wrong prediction about the Japanese and American photographic industries from 1946: http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-136.html In UK in the late 1950s already, when I was becoming seriously interested in photography, I don't think any American cameras were considered high quality. The really good stuff was Leica (German) and Hasselblad (Swedish? -- both mucho expensivo). Praktica (E. German) was OK. Some of the Japanese brands were coming onto the market, IIRC. I'm not sure that Kodak was considered a serious photographer's camera. Perce Olympus made at least one fantastic camera around that time - or was it the early sixties? I had an Olympus PenE, half frame SLR that took fantastic pictures. |
#12
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Rethinking "Made in China"
"Chris Friesen" wrote in message el... Funny you mention Laguna...some of their stuff is made in China. I suspect Tiawan, I could be wrong. Also Bulgaria, and Italy. |
#13
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Rethinking "Made in China"
"Swingman" wrote in message ... David Nebenzahl wrote: I'm getting a little tired of hearing the complaint "___ is a piece of ****: what do you expect? It's made in China!". You mean like drywall, C-Less' "64GB USB Drive", and the stuff at Harbor Fright? A rose by any other name ... **** China, and "Made in USA", for that matter ... I'm buying "European" like Laguna, Festool, Omer, et al products every chance I get these days. You got something Italian on order again? Lagu.... |
#14
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Rethinking "Made in China"
"HeyBub" wrote in message ... Swingman wrote: Jules wrote: They'll build what they're paid to build, no more and no less. There are talented folk there, same as anywhere else They are excellent copy cats, but there is NOTHING like European engineering for built-in quality, from handsaws and screwdrivers, to spaceships. The Europeans built a spaceship? I think Flash Gordon was an American... No, Flesh Gordon was the American... ;~) |
#15
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Rethinking "Made in China"
When I was a little kid, we always included "the starving children in China" in our prayers (hadn't discovered Africa yet). Just to show how times have changed.....just the other day, this wonderful, sweet missionary knocked on our door. He handed me $5, a bag of rice and a dead duck. He didn't speak clear English, but left a pamphlet in Chinese and badly translated English inviting all of the neighborhood children to Buddhist services. THIS PART is the best..... It also mentioned that all the neighborhood children would be welcome at classes to learn to speak and write Chinese, gardening, raising livestock, building inexpensive housing, cooking with a wok, using alternative fuels, and respect for elders. It also said that the Chinese had saved so much money, they were buying America and sending homesteaders over to run the country properly. ;o) Seems like this has already happened with the Japanese and Germans |
#16
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Rethinking "Made in China"
wrote in message m... Percival P. Cassidy wrote: David Nebenzahl wrote: snip As another poster said. They make what we ask them to make, or they make what we will buy. I think the latter is the truer statement. If everybody who said (myself included) "I am sick of buying cheap crap from China" actually stopped buying cheap crap from China. They would make better crap. How do we all stop buying stuff made in China. I have no idea. While picking up the family Christmas cards at Wal-Mart tonight the kids wanted Santa hats. $1.50 a piece - made in China. I bought 2, my Dunkins this morning cost more. To the poster who mentioned about how Japanese made used to be a joke. When I was a kid, I am 46 now, my dad owned a NAPA store. I can remember the comments when a customer came in to purchase parts for a Datsun or a Toyota. The joke was the price of the replacement part would double the value of the car. Not so much anymore. Larry C |
#17
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Rethinking "Made in China"
HeyBub wrote:
Swingman wrote: Jules wrote: They'll build what they're paid to build, no more and no less. There are talented folk there, same as anywhere else They are excellent copy cats, but there is NOTHING like European engineering for built-in quality, from handsaws and screwdrivers, to spaceships. The Europeans built a spaceship? I think Flash Gordon was an American... Last I heard, the Europeans were trying to put up their own GPS satellite system - for reasons passing understanding. As for European engineering in general, anybody who thinks that it's all high quality hasn't fettled a brand new British-made Stanley shoulder plane. |
#18
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Rethinking "Made in China"
On 2009-12-16, Swingman wrote:
They are excellent copy cats, but there is NOTHING like European engineering for built-in quality..... What nonsense. I've had plenty of Euro made items that were junk, including German made. Italy makes enough crap to drag the whole continent's curve below avg! nb |
#19
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Rethinking "Made in China"
HeyBub wrote:
Swingman wrote: Jules wrote: They'll build what they're paid to build, no more and no less. There are talented folk there, same as anywhere else They are excellent copy cats, but there is NOTHING like European engineering for built-in quality, from handsaws and screwdrivers, to spaceships. The Europeans built a spaceship? I think Flash Gordon was an American... Last I heard, the Europeans were trying to put up their own GPS satellite system - for reasons passing understanding. Tsk, tsk ... you get into space on "rockets", Bubba ... Wernher Von Braun Nuff said ... -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 10/22/08 KarlC@ (the obvious) |
#20
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Rethinking "Made in China"
On 2009-12-16, Larry C wrote:
To the poster who mentioned about how Japanese made used to be a joke. When I was a kid, I am 46 now, my dad owned a NAPA store. I can remember the comments when a customer came in to purchase parts for a Datsun or a Toyota. The joke was the price of the replacement part would double the value of the car. Not so much anymore. Then the pendulum swung the other way and Japanese products were considered the best (cameras, electronics, etc) when, in fact, they were no more great than when they were considered crap. I had a closet full of dead Japanese stuff that barely made it to warranty. Perception is a lot of it. The price thing about car parts is a little more complicated. When Japanese cars first hit our shores, parts were insane. $600 for one CV joint for a Civic. Later, aftermarket mfrs/rebuilders got into the act and drove prices waaaay down. I bought a PAIR of rebuilt joints for the same car for $125. Later, when rebuilding a Honda alternator, I got Honda parts cheaper from the dealer than the local discount parts store. Pays to shop around. nb |
#21
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Rethinking "Made in China"
On 12/16/2009 3:03 PM Percival P. Cassidy spake thus:
David Nebenzahl wrote: By way of showing just how wrong people can be when predicting who's winning the industrial game, here's a hilariously and astoundingly wrong prediction about the Japanese and American photographic industries from 1946: http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-136.html In UK in the late 1950s already, when I was becoming seriously interested in photography, I don't think any American cameras were considered high quality. The really good stuff was Leica (German) and Hasselblad (Swedish? -- both mucho expensivo). Praktica (E. German) was OK. Some of the Japanese brands were coming onto the market, IIRC. I'm not sure that Kodak was considered a serious photographer's camera. Kodak did make some cameras used by serious photogs, even after the Japanese kicked our asses in that arena, but they were mostly obscure models used by specialists. Like their view (studio) cameras and lenses made for aerial photography, to name a couple. Their one top-of-the-line 35mm camera (the Ektra) was already out of production by that time. After that, about the best they could come up with were consumer-level cameras, like the Instamatic, which they did sell by the millions. But all high-quality stuff was, as you point out, either German (Leica, Voigtlander), Swedish (Hassy), or, mostly, Japanese (lessee: Nikon, Canon, Ricoh, Minolta, Miranda, Yashica, Olympus, Bronica, Fuji, etc., etc. The single exception I can think of is the Graflex press cameras (Crown and Speed Graphics), made here in the US and used around the world up through the 1970s. -- I am a Canadian who was born and raised in The Netherlands. I live on Planet Earth on a spot of land called Canada. We have noisy neighbours. - harvested from Usenet |
#22
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Rethinking "Made in China"
On Dec 16, 3:27*pm, Jules
wrote: On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 11:39:07 -0800, David Nebenzahl wrote: This post is aimed at all you sinophobes out there. I'm getting a little tired of hearing the complaint "___ is a piece of ****: what do you expect? It's made in China!". They'll build what they're paid to build, no more and no less. There are talented folk there, same as anywhere else - but if people want to pay for crap that breaks after a few months so that they then have to go out and buy more crap, then that's what the Chinese will happily make... Problem is, *everyone* does it. It's almost impossible for a company to exist on the basis of making a 'quality' product any more - which means that even if the individual wants to pay extra for something that'll last, the product simply doesn't exist. cheers Jules Interesting discussion. I think also much of the "blame" is upon the buyer.....how much will each of us pay for more quality? We get what we pay for...if you want better, then vote with your dollars and companies will hear you. TMT |
#23
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Rethinking "Made in China"
notbob wrote:
On 2009-12-16, Swingman wrote: They are excellent copy cats, but there is NOTHING like European engineering for built-in quality..... What nonsense. I've had plenty of Euro made items that were junk, including German made. What nonsense? ... you can't be that dense, eh? **** happens in every country, culture, civilization - past, present, and future. Italy makes enough crap to drag the whole continent's curve below avg! Then there's my handmade, Omer pin nailer, one of the best engineered nail guns that money can buy, made in Italy. Once again, there is NOTHING like it, and it is "European engineered". -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 10/22/08 KarlC@ (the obvious) |
#24
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Rethinking "Made in China"
In article , "J. Clarke" wrote:
As for European engineering in general, anybody who thinks that it's all high quality hasn't fettled a brand new British-made Stanley shoulder plane. Or owned a Fiat... |
#25
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Rethinking "Made in China"
David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 12/16/2009 3:03 PM Percival P. Cassidy spake thus: David Nebenzahl wrote: By way of showing just how wrong people can be when predicting who's winning the industrial game, here's a hilariously and astoundingly wrong prediction about the Japanese and American photographic industries from 1946: http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-136.html In UK in the late 1950s already, when I was becoming seriously interested in photography, I don't think any American cameras were considered high quality. The really good stuff was Leica (German) and Hasselblad (Swedish? -- both mucho expensivo). Praktica (E. German) was OK. Some of the Japanese brands were coming onto the market, IIRC. I'm not sure that Kodak was considered a serious photographer's camera. Kodak did make some cameras used by serious photogs, even after the Japanese kicked our asses in that arena, but they were mostly obscure models used by specialists. Like their view (studio) cameras and lenses made for aerial photography, to name a couple. Their one top-of-the-line 35mm camera (the Ektra) was already out of production by that time. After that, about the best they could come up with were consumer-level cameras, like the Instamatic, which they did sell by the millions. But all high-quality stuff was, as you point out, either German (Leica, Voigtlander), Swedish (Hassy), or, mostly, Japanese (lessee: Nikon, Canon, Ricoh, Minolta, Miranda, Yashica, Olympus, Bronica, Fuji, etc., etc. The high quality Japanese stuff came a decade or more after the high quality German stuff. But then the Japanese did the thing that they do best, fiddling with the design to see what people like and what people don't like, and ended up eating the Germans' lunch--the Germans were so sure that they knew the _right_ way to do things that they wouldn't fiddle around with the design to compete with the Japanese. But the Germans still excel at optical design--Panasonic and Sony both use the Germans for lens design. In some markets though that approach didn't work, computers being one. The single exception I can think of is the Graflex press cameras (Crown and Speed Graphics), made here in the US and used around the world up through the 1970s. |
#26
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Rethinking "Made in China"
Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "J. Clarke" wrote: As for European engineering in general, anybody who thinks that it's all high quality hasn't fettled a brand new British-made Stanley shoulder plane. Or owned a Fiat... Then there's Rolls Royce, Bentley, Mercedes, BMW, the Lamborghini Reventon , Maserati, the Bugatti Veyron, the McLaren F1, and the Pagani, to name just a few examples of "European engineering" that there is NOTHING else like. -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 10/22/08 KarlC@ (the obvious) |
#27
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Rethinking "Made in China"
Chris Friesen wrote:
On 12/16/2009 01:39 PM, David Nebenzahl wrote: I'm finding more and more that "Made in China" really doesn't mean anything about the quality of an item. Clearly, Chinese workers, as underpaid as they may be, are quite capable of making anything as well as anyone else in any other part of the world. True. However, going by various comments written by people in the industry, there also seems to be a cultural impetus to try and push the lower boundaries of the quality standards. So if a Chinese factory contracts for a given level of quality there is a tendency for that level to drop over time unless the company that hired them keeps on top of things. I suspect this holds true to a certain extent in many places, but he impression that I have gotten (from various places) is that this is worse when dealing with Chinese manufacturers. Chris Hi, Not only Chinese, that is human nature. You have to be vigilant on quality. |
#28
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Rethinking "Made in China"
Swingman wrote:
David Nebenzahl wrote: I'm getting a little tired of hearing the complaint "___ is a piece of ****: what do you expect? It's made in China!". You mean like drywall, C-Less' "64GB USB Drive", and the stuff at Harbor Fright? A rose by any other name ... **** China, and "Made in USA", for that matter ... I'm buying "European" like Laguna, Festool, Omer, et al products every chance I get these days. I want value for what few of my hard earned $$ I get to keep, not some price point engineered POS with an advertising budget. Hmmm, Made U.S.A. Made in EU" Really? 100%? Economy stands on bottom line these days. You can't **** China, she is too big/powerful now. |
#29
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Rethinking "Made in China"
On 2009-12-16 16:12:26 -0500, "
said: Anyone who wants to sell anything in a competing market has to make it as cheaply as can be done in Mexico, China, Bangladesh, etc....what they make is done under an entirely different labor economy (and socialized medicine, probably). But you know that already. This is called marketing to a price point. One interesting extension to this is Fender guitars -- how much to you want to pay for your Strat? Indonesian, Chinese, Korean, Mexican, or American? From the audience, they all look pretty much the same*. But to the experienced player... *Except for the ones "lovingly" aged, that is, and you'll pay dearly for someone beatin' the Hell out of your axe. |
#30
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Rethinking "Made in China"
"Tony Hwang" wrote: Hmmm, Made U.S.A. Made in EU" Really? 100%? Economy stands on bottom line these days. You can't **** China, she is too big/powerful now. You don't usually **** your banker or a big customer. Lew |
#31
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Rethinking "Made in China"
Tony Hwang wrote:
You can't **** China, she is too big/powerful now. When "she" starts making quality, innovative, well engineered tools like Festool does I'll start buying Chinese. Until then, in a tool buying sense, **** China, and the US also ... just in case you think there is discrimination involved. People who work with their hands know the difference ... keep that in mind. -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 10/22/08 KarlC@ (the obvious) |
#32
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Rethinking "Made in China"
Steve wrote:
This is called marketing to a price point. Much worse than that, with regard to quality, is 'engineering to a price point". -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 10/22/08 KarlC@ (the obvious) |
#33
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Rethinking "Made in China"
Swingman wrote:
Tony Hwang wrote: You can't **** China, she is too big/powerful now. When "she" starts making quality, innovative, well engineered tools like Festool does I'll start buying Chinese. Until then, in a tool buying sense, **** China, and the US also ... just in case you think there is discrimination involved. People who work with their hands know the difference ... keep that in mind. Hi, I am not Chinese, LOL! |
#34
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Rethinking "Made in China"
Steve wrote:
On 2009-12-16 16:12:26 -0500, " said: Anyone who wants to sell anything in a competing market has to make it as cheaply as can be done in Mexico, China, Bangladesh, etc....what they make is done under an entirely different labor economy (and socialized medicine, probably). But you know that already. This is called marketing to a price point. One interesting extension to this is Fender guitars -- how much to you want to pay for your Strat? Indonesian, Chinese, Korean, Mexican, or American? From the audience, they all look pretty much the same*. But to the experienced player... *Except for the ones "lovingly" aged, that is, and you'll pay dearly for someone beatin' the Hell out of your axe. Hi, Discerning hands and ears can tell. Actually real good hands can make any axe sound good but it is more difficult. Only poor craftsman blames the tool. BTW, I have quite a few vintage LP, Fender, Gibson, Martin, etc. and Marshall, Fender, Boogie, etc. in my basement studio. |
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Rethinking "Made in China"
On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 15:58:17 -0800, Too_Many_Tools wrote:
Interesting discussion. I think also much of the "blame" is upon the buyer.....how much will each of us pay for more quality? We get what we pay for...if you want better, then vote with your dollars and companies will hear you. Yes, but my point is that there are times you *can't* pay for quality. My fridge/freezer is over 30 years old and still going - but I don't think I could walk into any modern appliance store and say "sell me a fridge that'll still be going in 2039". cheers Jules |
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Rethinking "Made in China"
"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message s.com... This post is aimed at all you sinophobes out there. I'm getting a little tired of hearing the complaint "___ is a piece of ****: what do you expect? It's made in China!". Now it is true that a lot of crap--boatloads of it, literally--does come from that great country. We've all seen it, used it, chucked it out. But bear in mind the historical precedent: some of you are probably old enough to remember the similar tarring of anything that had the label "Made in Japan" on it. Anything Japanese was considered worthless. Compare to today. I have made this point on this newsgroup and elsewhere. At the time "made in Japan" meant junk, I lived in Japan. You could buy anything you could ever want. The quality ranged from junk to the finest quality you'd find anywhere. Lots of the technology in common use there had not even been seen in the US (at least not by Joe Average).What perpetuated the "Japanese junk" idea was the American importers. Junk was extremely cheap, so much so that, even with a substantial markup, they could still sell it cheap enough here that people would buy it. They (the importers) new that high quality was available but there was no moony in it. The Chinese are in the same position now. High quality is available in China but no one is bringing it into the US. There is no money in it. |
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Rethinking "Made in China"
"Swingman" wrote in message ... HeyBub wrote: Swingman wrote: Jules wrote: They'll build what they're paid to build, no more and no less. There are talented folk there, same as anywhere else They are excellent copy cats, but there is NOTHING like European engineering for built-in quality, from handsaws and screwdrivers, to spaceships. The Europeans built a spaceship? I think Flash Gordon was an American... Last I heard, the Europeans were trying to put up their own GPS satellite system - for reasons passing understanding. Tsk, tsk ... you get into space on "rockets", Bubba ... Wernher Von Braun Yes, the success of the American space program was due to imports. They imported Germany's best scientists. |
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Rethinking "Made in China"
On 12/16/2009 4:26 PM Tim Daneliuk spake thus:
On 12/16/2009 5:56 PM, David Nebenzahl wrote: The single exception I can think of is the Graflex press cameras (Crown and Speed Graphics), made here in the US and used around the world up through the 1970s. These were- and are- wonderful cameras. They're even better when you throw away the coke bottle lenses (Ektars) that came with them and shove a nice German Schneider onto the snout of the camera I disagree; I have a Crown with the Ektar 127mm lens, and it's sharp as a tack. The lens to stay away from here, apparently, and surprisingly, is the Xenar, which is usually a great piece of glass but for some reason the ones found with Graphics usually suck. The Optars that a lot others come with is just so-so. What I'd really like to get my hands on would be one of Kodak's wide field Ektars (speaking of quality American-made stuff). Check these out on eBay--they usually sell for really big $$$. (Of course, a Super Angulon would be nice too ...) -- I am a Canadian who was born and raised in The Netherlands. I live on Planet Earth on a spot of land called Canada. We have noisy neighbours. - harvested from Usenet |
#39
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Rethinking "Made in China"
Tony Hwang wrote:
Discerning hands and ears can tell. Actually real good hands can make any axe sound good but it is more difficult. Well said ... Only poor craftsman blames the tool. BTW, I have quite a few vintage LP, Fender, Gibson, Martin, etc. and Marshall, Fender, Boogie, etc. in my basement studio. Cool ... my main axe is a '61 Fender Jazz. Just for grins, some "American engineering" ... http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/61Fender.jpg ....and it sounds like this: http://www.wildriverband.com/Media/Let Me Go Home Whiskey.wma -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 10/22/08 KarlC@ (the obvious) |
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Rethinking "Made in China"
"Edward A. Falk" wrote in message
... In article , Chris Friesen wrote: However, going by various comments written by people in the industry, there also seems to be a cultural impetus to try and push the lower boundaries of the quality standards. So if a Chinese factory contracts for a given level of quality there is a tendency for that level to drop over time unless the company that hired them keeps on top of things. Keeping on top of things is the key. A friend of mine had a product made in China. He spec'ed fire-resistant plastic for the casing. As soon as his back was turned, they switched to cheaper plastic and his house (where he was storing his inventory) burned down as a result. How did plastic casings which were not fire resistant cause his house to burn down? One suspects there was a Lot of inflammable stuff in his house. |
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