Silvan writes:

Too easy to make booze, of one form or another. Maybe not in huge
amounts, but enought for the average person anyway.

Yeah, even my *grandmother* makes booze. Wine for her church. She doesn't
otherwise drink. Never has in 80-something year

It's legal to make up to 200 gallonos of wine for your own use. Used to have an
Italian landlord who did that: I had the basement apartment; he made wine in
the other end; you could get drunk walking down the hall, it almost seemed.
Great stuff. This guy was a delight. Hardest working man I've ever know. By the
time I left Albany, he'd gone from one 4 story apartment building to being
rich. Worked as a laborer when he first got here.

Charlie Self
"I am a marvelous housekeeper. Every time I leave a man I keep his house." Zsa
Zsa Gabor

http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/m.../business.html

When my mother was in high school she saved up and bought an old, used
Underwood. I remember her saying it was quite old when she got it. Believe
it or not Staples was able to find me a ribbon that fits it. I still have
it and it works great. The thing has got to be over 80 years old.

Glen

BTW, it's a cordless model. ;-)

"T." wrote in message
...
Sat, Jan 3, 2004, 11:33am (EST-3)
(Tim Douglass) says:
Learned on an old Royal with no 1 key.
I'd forgotten about those. I guess I don't really miss them, although my
old Remington upright was very popular at college because it could be
hauled down to the park to write a term paper far away from a plug-in.

Boy, some of you guy's are really stretching. Remembering back to
the days of manual typewriters? Yo-yos? You've gotta be kidding. You
can still buy, new manual typewriters. If you want a neat one tho, I've
got an electric portable, that will operate on electric anywhere in the
world, plus batteries. But, the kids were playing with it - I didn't
know - and apparently a spring somewhere in it broke. Ah well. Maybe I
can get it repaired one of these days.

And, yo-yo - remember when? I've got a regular yo-yo I got just a
few, very few, years ago. I get it and use it every once in awhile.
And, got at least two floating around here somewhere, that are maybe
about 10-12 years old, they take batteries, and have lights that come
on, if you spin them hard enough.

Now try, churning your own butter, after you separated your own
milk. Then, molding the butter, in wooden butter molds. Water from a
well, with a bucket. Or, water from a stream, with a bucked, on a tram
line. Cornbread and milk, instead of cereal. Or, saltine crackers and
milk, instead of cereal. Lucky Strike green - I can ony vaguely recall
those tho. Digging a new outhouse hold, and moving the outhouse.

We did have electricty when I was a kid, but I've visited relatives
who didn't. We had running water, but only cold. We did not have
indoor plumbing. We moved when I was in the 7th grade, and that was our
first indoor plumbing, and first hot water. And, later, our first
telephone. And, even later, first television.

JOAT
Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of
enthusiasm.
- Sir Winston Churchill

Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
Web Page Update 2 Jan 2004.
Some tunes I like.
http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofal...OMETUNESILIKE/

Score = 100

I'm just plain dirty.










On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 21:41:58 -0500, T. wrote:

My mother sent me this a few days back. And, I can remembember
every damn thing on the quiz. What the Hell happened? I shouldn't even
be 30 yet. Damn.

Older Than Dirt Quiz:
Count all the ones that you remember not the ones you were told about!
Ratings at the bottom.

** 1. Blackjack chewing gum
** 2. Wax Coke-shaped bottles with colored sugar water
** 3. Candy cigarettes
** 4. Soda pop machines that dispensed bottles
** 5. Coffee shops with tableside jukeboxes
** 6. Home milk delivery in glass bottles with cardboard stoppers
** 7. Party lines
** 8. Newsreels before the movie
** 9. P.F. Flyers
** 10. Butch wax
** 11. Telephone numbers with a word prefix (Olive-6933)
** 12. Peashooters
** 13. Howdy Doody
** 14. 45 RPM records
** 15. S&H Green Stamps
** 16. Hi-fi's
** 17. Metal ice trays with lever
** 18. Mimeograph paper
** 19. Blue flashbulb
** 20. Packards
** 21. Roller skate keys
** 22. Cork popguns
** 23. Drive-ins
** 24. Studebakers
** 25. Wash tub wringers

** If you remembered! 0-5 = You're still young ** If you
remembered 6-10 = You are getting older ** If you remembered 11-15 =
Don't tell your age, ** If you remembered 16-25 = You're older than
dirt!

JOAT
Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of
enthusiasm.
- Sir Winston Churchill

Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
Web Page Update 29 Dec 2003.
Some tunes I like.
http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofal...OMETUNESILIKE/

Charlie Self wrote:

almost seemed. Great stuff. This guy was a delight. Hardest working man
I've ever know. By the time I left Albany, he'd gone from one 4 story
apartment building to being rich. Worked as a laborer when he first got
here.

It is kind of surprising how often that works out. Hard work and *enormous*
risks I guess. I'm risk-averse, which makes me a very lousy entrepeneur.
I go for the sure thing every time, and the sure thing is always the option
that pays the least.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

In article , "Buddy Matlosz" wrote:

The most obvious answer is that you don't need to worry about exposure
to
second-hand beer.

I beg to differ. I once had the guy at the next urinal **** on my shoe.

Yeah, but that washes off easier than the stench of cigarette smoke does.

--
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

How come we choose from just two people to run for president and 50 for Miss America?

The most obvious answer is that you don't need to worry about exposure
to
second-hand beer.

I beg to differ. I once had the guy at the next urinal **** on my shoe.

Yeah, but that washes off easier than the stench of cigarette smoke does.

Reminds of the times when I was young, stupid and single. Hang out in honky
tonks. Go in the john and be damned glad you were wearing high heeled
boots--and wish the soles were thicker.

Charlie Self
"I am a marvelous housekeeper. Every time I leave a man I keep his house." Zsa
Zsa Gabor

http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/m.../business.html

In article , Howard
wrote:

http://www.rightwingnews.com/quotes/demsonwmds.php

Badda-bing!

Great link!

djb

--
There are no socks in my email address.

"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati"

Sat, Jan 3, 2004, 10:00pm (EST-3) (George=A0G)
doesn't address anyone, with:
About every ten years these quizes float around. Almost word for word.
George

I don't find that making it any less enjoyable.

JOAT
Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of
enthusiasm.
- Sir Winston Churchill

Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
Web Page Update 4 Jan 2004.
Some tunes I like.
http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofal...OMETUNESILIKE/

Sun, Jan 4, 2004, 12:37am (Silvan) says:
Dude, it's less than four hours from here to there. You should treat
yourself to a drive-in movie.

I've seen the time I've traveled over 100 miles, to get a mediocre
hamburger. Times like that are long past, for me.

We have a couple of old fashioned drive-in restaurants too. One of them
is right down the street from the other drive-in. The Starlite Drive-In
Theater and the Starlite Drive-In Restaurant, both on, get this now,
Starlite Drive. Or maybe these are all "-light." I'm not sure.

We've now got a Sonics in town, maybe 3 miles, max, from me. And,
one in the county seat, maybe 10-11 miles. Used to be, a town the size
of the country seat, would have half a dozen, at least. And, always one
where the guys will the cool, and hot, cars went. Now we've got guys
with Honda, with coffee can exhaust tips, and 5,000 decibels of music I
don't want to hear. Some things about the old days really are better.

JOAT
Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of
enthusiasm.
- Sir Winston Churchill

Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
Web Page Update 4 Jan 2004.
Some tunes I like.
http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofal...OMETUNESILIKE/

Sun, Jan 4, 2004, 1:00am (Norman=A0D.=A0Crow) says:
C'mon now JOAT, there are more than a few of us *old farts* around here!

Granted, there are quite a few of you old guys. LOL I don't
consider myself old yet.

Work one end of a crosscut saw, split the log sections with
sledge/wedges so we could feed it to the buzz saw.

Yeah, I've been on the wrong end of a crosscut too, and did a buzz
saw too (OSHA would go ape. LOL), but nothing large enough to have to
split.


Sounds like what we called a "whoopee", old truck chassis cut down with
a wood box for a seat, chains on the rear duals.

Hmm, never saw anything quite like that. The box seat was only
temporary, until they got a seat. No, the only type I'm familiar with
was a car cut down, with maybe a truck dual axle. Sometimes with two
transmissions. Anything from Model As, Plymouth sixes, to Ford V-8s.

My dad had one, and one of his friends was supposed to move it -
like only a hundred yards or so. Somehow, he it got it into a high
gear, couldn't get it slowed down, and wound up on the road, at about 60
MPH. He wasn't real coordinated. LOL

JOAT
Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of
enthusiasm.
- Sir Winston Churchill

Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
Web Page Update 4 Jan 2004.
Some tunes I like.
http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofal...OMETUNESILIKE/

Sun, Jan 4, 2004, 9:14am (EST+5) (Kiyu) says:
snip Sunshine Magazine & Guidepost for reading material.

Nope, don't recall either. But, I do recall the old Sears, and
Monkey Ward, catalogs being used. Everyonece in awhile, I give thanks
for the man that invented soft toilet paper. And, surely you remember
those cold winter days, and, even without the slightest breeze, you got
a cold draft.

The good old days really weren't all that good were they?G

I guess they were then, because that's what we had. But, there's
sure not a lot I'd like to go thru again.

JOAT
Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of
enthusiasm.
- Sir Winston Churchill

Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
Web Page Update 4 Jan 2004.
Some tunes I like.
http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofal...OMETUNESILIKE/

"T." wrote in message
...
Sat, Jan 3, 2004, 10:00pm (EST-3) (George G)
doesn't address anyone, with:
About every ten years these quizes float around. Almost word for word.
George

I don't find that making it any less enjoyable.

JOAT

The advantage of getting old is two fold.
1. You score high because you remember all the items listed.
2. You don't remember that you just read this last week.
Ed

T. wrote:

We've now got a Sonics in town, maybe 3 miles, max, from me. And,

I'm not talking about Sonics. I'm talking about a *real* drive-in
restaurant that hasn't changed appreciably since the '50s.

I don't think the skating waitress chickies wear poodle skirts and bobby
socks though.

where the guys will the cool, and hot, cars went. Now we've got guys
with Honda, with coffee can exhaust tips, and 5,000 decibels of music I
don't want to hear. Some things about the old days really are better.

Yeah, I heard that. Pretty colors and lots of chrome, but they have no
soul. The hip hop gang banger kill whitey music blaring from every orifice
doesn't sweeten the pot much either.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

Charlie Self wrote:

Reminds of the times when I was young, stupid and single. Hang out in
honky tonks. Go in the john and be damned glad you were wearing high
heeled boots--and wish the soles were thicker.

You should have tried the *ladies* room.

I used to think women were neater until I worked in a honky tonk. Sure, the
men's room would have newspapers stuck to the floor with ****, but that was
*nothing*.

The women used to break into the cabinet under the sink so they could get
the toilet paper out, then they'd flush the whole roll, back everything up.
They did this on purpose, and they did this *often*.

Nothing like wading into a sea of... Well, just use your imagination.

There were a couple of times when I took the mop back to the boss and told
him he could do it himself, and I didn't give a damn if he fired me.

He never fired me.

Drunk women are NASTY!

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

JOAT muses:

And, always one
where the guys will the cool, and hot, cars went. Now we've got guys
with Honda, with coffee can exhaust tips, and 5,000 decibels of music I
don't want to hear. Some things about the old days really are better.

You got that right. Not many, but lower noise levels are always better.

Charlie Self
"Brevity is the soul of lingerie." Dorothy Parker
http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/m.../business.html

Silvan writes:

Charlie Self wrote:

Reminds of the times when I was young, stupid and single. Hang out in
honky tonks. Go in the john and be damned glad you were wearing high
heeled boots--and wish the soles were thicker.

You should have tried the *ladies* room.

I used to think women were neater until I worked in a honky tonk. Sure, the
men's room would have newspapers stuck to the floor with ****, but that was
*nothing*.

Yeah, well. When I was even younger, I worked in a service station/garage, and
I was the guy whoo got to clean the restrooms. Always had to work up my nerve
to even go in the ladies' room after my second week. I won't describe it,
because nearly 50 years later, it can make me gag.

No rhyme, no reason, but nasty.

Charlie Self
"Brevity is the soul of lingerie." Dorothy Parker
http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/m.../business.html

"Charlie Self" wrote in message
...
Silvan writes:

Charlie Self wrote:

Reminds of the times when I was young, stupid and single. Hang out in
honky tonks. Go in the john and be damned glad you were wearing high
heeled boots--and wish the soles were thicker.

You should have tried the *ladies* room.

I used to think women were neater until I worked in a honky tonk.
Sure, the
men's room would have newspapers stuck to the floor with ****, but that
was
*nothing*.

Yeah, well. When I was even younger, I worked in a service
station/garage, and
I was the guy whoo got to clean the restrooms. Always had to work up my
nerve
to even go in the ladies' room after my second week. I won't describe
it,
because nearly 50 years later, it can make me gag.

No rhyme, no reason, but nasty.

I'm still trying to deal with the visual of you in high heels, Charlie.

B.

Buddy Matlosz notes:

I'm still trying to deal with the visual of you in high heels, Charlie.

Honky tonks. Cowboy boots? At least I didn't often wear roper heels. Those
suckers can kill you on a dance floor.


Charlie Self
"Brevity is the soul of lingerie." Dorothy Parker
http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/m.../business.html

Charlie Self wrote:

You should have tried the *ladies* room.

my nerve to even go in the ladies' room after my second week. I won't
describe it, because nearly 50 years later, it can make me gag.

No rhyme, no reason, but nasty.

Yes. No rhyme, no reason, but *nasty*!

So much for the image of women as delicate little flowers.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

Cape Cod Bob wrote in message . ..
On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 13:51:21 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

...

Why are the do-gooders, health nazis, lay and professional, and
elected reps so afraid tin stand up against drinking?

We tried that once, and it didn't work. Remember Prohibition?

I'm not asking for a repeal, nor would I want that. I enjoy a drink
too. I want the same treatment as tobacco. 1) Righteous
indignation, 2) taxed to high hell. How about $15 for a six-pack?,
3) The same "advertising" of alcohol abuse as for smoking.

How about if tobacco were to _only _ be as retricted as alcohol?

Ever see booze in a vending machine?
Ever see teenagers drinking beer infront of police officers?
How many places permit drinking in public?

Not arguing for or against it, but just think about it?

--

FF

Sun, Jan 4, 2004, 11:23pm (EST+5) (Edwin=A0Pawlowski) says:
The advantage of getting old is two fold.
1. You score high because you remember all the items listed.
2. You don't remember that you just read this last week. Ed

ROTFLMAO

JOAT
Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of
enthusiasm.
- Sir Winston Churchill

Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
Web Page Update 5 Jan 2004.
Some tunes I like.
http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofal...OMETUNESILIKE/

Mon, Jan 5, 2004, 2:40am (EST+5) otforme
(Charlie=A0Self) says:
You got that right. Not many, but lower noise levels are always better.

My younger son put another engine in his old Datsun pickup, because
the Chevy truck, with my built engine, is hard on gas. With my truck
needing a part, I got the Datsun today, for running around, and he drove
the Chevy to work.

Well, he's got a fancy radio, the type the front comes off, so no
one can steal it and use it. I found out how to turn it on, and it's
got a CD in there cranked waaay up. Couldn't understand any of the
words. So, got the sound down, finally got it turned to a radio station,
and found out none comes in - seems the antenna is broke off. OK, I'll
just get along without the radio. I can't find the off button. The
button I turned it on with, won't turn it off, just switches it to CD
and back. Argh.
Five minutes of fiddling, it's still on. Take the front off, and
carefully look at all the buttons. No power button, no on/off button.
Arghhhhh. The button that turned it on says "source". Put it back on,
push buttons again, more frustration. Finally push the release button,
so it's partly swinging open, but is finally off. Not only that, it's
wired so it's on, even if the key is off. I'm gonna try to find the kid
an antenna. Either that, or take some of my own CDs along next time.
Got some BB King, bagpipes, classical - gooood music. Hmm, maybe I
sould get a few Wagner CDs, they're always fun to crank the sound up on.
Might scare some of those little twits in the Hondas, maybe they'll
think I'm a reincarnation of Jason, or something. LMAO

JOAT
Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of
enthusiasm.
- Sir Winston Churchill

Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
Web Page Update 5 Jan 2004.
Some tunes I like.
http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofal...OMETUNESILIKE/

On 03 Jan 2004 20:04:48 GMT, otforme (Charlie Self)
wrote:

Cape Cod Bob responds:


You don't hear the PSA's regarding not drinking and driving? Or the
ads from the various beer companies that include the "warning", "Always
drink responsibly" (shades of the 60's and tobacco here?). Also,
consider that there was considerable furor over the advertising of hard
liquors in TV ads.SNIP

When a six pack of Bud costs $15 let me know.

Respond to what I wrote, not someone else's response to you.

Charlie, I thought I did, but realize I was overly succinct. Yes,
there is a campaign against drunk driving and under-age drinking and
package/ad "warnings" . But, when they tax alcohol to the same
extent as tobacco, I will believe that there is a serious public
support against drunkenness. However, that will not happen as the
grain lobbies have a lot of political clout.

On Dateline last night, they had a story about dieting. One of the
dieters said he'd most miss his 14 to 16 cans of beer A DAY!
Everyone chuckled at his consumption. The guy is an alcoholic and
it's not cute, manly or humorous. If he had said he smokes 4 packs of
cigarettes a day, there would have been consternation and ridicule.

Cigarette prices range from as low as about $20 to almost $50 a carton
across the US totally because of taxes aimed at deterring smoking.
The variation on alcohol taxes is almost non-existent.

I just don't understand it.

On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 20:04:21 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:
HEAVY SNIP
Abuse of alcohol has caused more social grief and cost more money than
tobacco.

Statistics to support this, please?

The fact that I couldn;'tfind any stats is part of my contention.

ROTFLMAO!

Where are your statistics?

Most deaths caused by alcohol are the result of drunken driving. Auto
accidents from _all_ causes kill approximately 40,000 people annually in the
U.S. Smoking and its complications are respsonsible for _ten_times_ that
number.

Not even close. Most alcohol deaths are illness related.

Doesn't even come _close_ to the damage caused by tobacco. Look it up
yourself. I'm not going to do your research for you.

I have tried to find stats but have been unable to. The problem in
not finding hard numbers, I suspect, is because of many factors
including
1) alcoholism affects so many conditions besides cirrhosis that
statistical ties are impossible to substantiate
2) Excess drinking is still considered as damn near "cute" except when
it involves driving
3) Public acceptance etc etc.

On 03 Jan 2004 22:05:26 GMT, otforme (Charlie Self)
wrote:

JOAT notes:

Oh, I dunno. When I was in Turkey, alcoholism was apparently a
major problem - and that's a country where, supposedly, drinking alcohol
is against the major religion.

Just reinforces my point: bans on alcohol don't work, probably can't work. As
someone else noted, many things are invented by a single society, but in the
case of booze, some version or other has been invented by every society we've
ever uncovered.

Charlie, look beyond banning alcohol entirely. How about very heavy
taxation so that drinking beyond a socially accepted range becomes too
expensive to sustain?

Cape Cod Bob responds:

Just reinforces my point: bans on alcohol don't work, probably can't work.
As
someone else noted, many things are invented by a single society, but in the
case of booze, some version or other has been invented by every society
we've
ever uncovered.

Charlie, look beyond banning alcohol entirely. How about very heavy
taxation so that drinking beyond a socially accepted range becomes too
expensive to sustain?


Aren't we at least trying to do that already? Another one of the reasons
alcohol and tobacco will never be banned is the amount of money the 2
substances bring in to various governments. If marijuana brought in a similar
amount, it would be on sale at all convenience stores.

Charlie Self
"Brevity is the soul of lingerie." Dorothy Parker
http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/m.../business.html

On 5 Jan 2004 11:21:29 -0800, (Fred the Red
Shirt) wrote:

Cape Cod Bob wrote in message . ..
On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 13:51:21 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

HEAVY SNIP

How about if tobacco were to _only _ be as retricted as alcohol?

Not sure what you mean.

Ever see booze in a vending machine?
Self-service bars are ubiquitous in high end hotels. In Minneapolis,
I even saw a "bar" in the room where you inserted your card key to
register the purchase and pulled a lever to get one of four brands of
beer, 5 types of hard booze (scotch, blend, gin, bourbon and vodka)
and assorted mixers.

Ever see teenagers drinking beer infront of police officers?

Not teens, but MANY times adults with the container badly hidden with
a wrapped brown bag.

How many places permit drinking in public?

Sports stadiums, bowling alleys, golf courses, festivals, concerts,
come immediately to mind. Then there is the almost universal
over-looking of street drinking as long as they container is
"shrouded."

Not arguing for or against it, but just think about it?
Me too.

T. wrote:

Arghhhhh. The button that turned it on says "source". Put it back on,

Push and hold the "source" button for a second or two.

That confuses the guy at my company's yard too. I'll get in the truck and
my stereo is on, with the volume turned all the way down, because the guy
couldn't figure out how to turn it off.

sould get a few Wagner CDs, they're always fun to crank the sound up on.
Might scare some of those little twits in the Hondas, maybe they'll
think I'm a reincarnation of Jason, or something. LMAO

LMAO. I just had a mental image of you cruising along with "Ride of the
Valkyries" blaring from the stereo full blast, bearing down on one of those
little hip hop Hondas.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

Cape Cod Bob writes:


Cape Cod Bob responds:


You don't hear the PSA's regarding not drinking and driving? Or the
ads from the various beer companies that include the "warning", "Always
drink responsibly" (shades of the 60's and tobacco here?). Also,
consider that there was considerable furor over the advertising of hard
liquors in TV ads.SNIP

When a six pack of Bud costs $15 let me know.

Respond to what I wrote, not someone else's response to you.

Charlie, I thought I did, but realize I was overly succinct.

No. You responded to someone writing about public service announcements. That
was NOT me.

But, when they tax alcohol to the same
extent as tobacco, I will believe that there is a serious public
support against drunkenness. However, that will not happen as the
grain lobbies have a lot of political clout.

I don't think so. Cigaret companies have far more clout than farmers, even the
corporate farmers who supply boozemakers. The entire structure of tobacco
allotments screams of political pressure, and these small farmers have
tremendous clout politically, though no one seems to realize it. Try pushing
for reforms in any kind of subsidy that affects small farms. Incredible how
fast conservatives can turn into people who solidly believe in
entitlements...their entitlements.

On Dateline last night, they had a story about dieting. One of the
dieters said he'd most miss his 14 to 16 cans of beer A DAY!
Everyone chuckled at his consumption. The guy is an alcoholic and
it's not cute, manly or humorous. If he had said he smokes 4 packs of
cigarettes a day, there would have been consternation and ridicule.

I guess. I've seen people who have to be alcoholics, but who live a useful
life, never create problems, have decent or even good jobs, raise families and
on. I'm not exactly sure where the line is--14 to 16 beers a day should keep
the guy right on the 0.08 blood alcohol level, but if he does it right, he'd
never go over. About one an hour, assuming a slightly larger than average
person. Is that an alcoholic? Probably. Is he doing any harm to anyone other
than himself? Probably not. Once you answer that second question, you take it
out of "Is it any of my business?" and stick it into interference in someone
else's private life.


Cigarette prices range from as low as about $20 to almost $50 a carton
across the US totally because of taxes aimed at deterring smoking.
The variation on alcohol taxes is almost non-existent.

Why does the variation bother you? I'd be just as happy if they tripled the
cigaret tax and stopped the damned public service ads. Same for booze. Triple
the tax, especially on beer and wine, and get the PSA crap off the air where
those of us who don't drink get stuck watching it many times a day if we watch
any idiot box at all. Or if we drive down the road and look at billboards. Or
open a newspaper or magazine.

I'm so sick of government propoganda on various subjects, I'd like to see that
taxed out of existence.

Charlie Self
"Brevity is the soul of lingerie." Dorothy Parker
http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/m.../business.html

In article , Cape Cod Bob wrote:
But, when they tax alcohol to the same
extent as tobacco, I will believe that there is a serious public
support against drunkenness. However, that will not happen as the
grain lobbies have a lot of political clout.

HELLOOOOOO! Earth to Bob!

Alcohol is *already* taxed more heavily than you can imagine: the overwhelming
majority of the retail price of beverage alcohol is taxes.

Compare the cost of a gallon of denatured ethyl alcohol at Home Depot to the
cost of the equivalent amount of beverage alcohol (e.g. a gallon of Everclear,
two gallons of 100-proof vodka, 2.5 gallons of 80-proof brandy, eight gallons
of wine, or six cases of beer).

Even *cheap* wine, at two bucks a fifth, is still *very* expensive alcohol:
eighty dollars a gallon. Just in case you need this spelled out for you, a
gallon of wine contains only about a pint of alcohol.

[snip]

Cigarette prices range from as low as about $20 to almost $50 a carton
across the US totally because of taxes aimed at deterring smoking.
The variation on alcohol taxes is almost non-existent.

I just don't understand it.

You fail to understand largely because you don't have the first clue what
you're talking about. "Variation [between states] on alcohol taxes is almost
non-existent"?

Come back when you have a clue.

--
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

How come we choose from just two people to run for president and 50 for Miss America?

More government playing momy and daddy. The tax on a bottle of booze should
be no higher than the tax on a bottle of orange juice. It's not up to the
government to run people lives.

"Cape Cod Bob" wrote in message
...
On 03 Jan 2004 22:05:26 GMT, otforme (Charlie Self)
wrote:
ever uncovered.

Charlie, look beyond banning alcohol entirely. How about very heavy
taxation so that drinking beyond a socially accepted range becomes too
expensive to sustain?

It would but it's illegal. Illegal in the US means free market. either
legalize it and make money off it or really do something about it. Neither
option has been tried yet.

"Charlie Self" wrote in message
...
If marijuana brought in a similar
amount, it would be on sale at all convenience stores.

Charlie Self
"Brevity is the soul of lingerie." Dorothy Parker
http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/m.../business.html

On Sun, 4 Jan 2004 18:18:37 -0500 (EST), (T.)
wrote:

Sun, Jan 4, 2004, 9:14am (EST+5) (Kiyu) says:
snip Sunshine Magazine & Guidepost for reading material.

Nope, don't recall either.
Religious & inspirational subscriptions from relatives - they always
found their way to the outhouse. Sunshine was terrific though.

But, I do recall the old Sears, and
Monkey Ward, catalogs being used. Everyonece in awhile, I give thanks
for the man that invented soft toilet paper. And, surely you remember
those cold winter days, and, even without the slightest breeze, you got
a cold draft.
What I hated was when someone left the door open and it snowed. Your
butt could warm a toilet seat quickly (we had a genuine store bought
one in ours) but not when you just swept 4 in. of snow off it and time
was running out.
And then there were, when and where you were the most vulnerable, the
spiders in the summertime.
And the lime pail.
And the folk's rule not to disturb the black snakes on the way out as
they kept the mice away.

And does anyone remember having cottonwood trees on all corners of the
house - nature's AC?

Kiyu



-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
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Cigarette prices range from as low as about $20 to almost $50 a carton
across the US totally because of taxes aimed at deterring smoking.
The variation on alcohol taxes is almost non-existent.

The pols might sell these taxes as trying to "deter" smoking, but in reality it
is just a currently socially acceptable means of raising money to spend on pet
projects and re-election spending. Got a deficit? Raise cig taxes- the only
ones who will bitch are smokers and everyone else loves to hate them, clearly
fewer votes lost than would occur with an income tax increase.

Dave Hall

In article ,
says...
On 03 Jan 2004 22:05:26 GMT, otforme (Charlie Self)
wrote:

JOAT notes:

Oh, I dunno. When I was in Turkey, alcoholism was apparently a
major problem - and that's a country where, supposedly, drinking alcohol
is against the major religion.

Just reinforces my point: bans on alcohol don't work, probably can't work. As
someone else noted, many things are invented by a single society, but in the
case of booze, some version or other has been invented by every society we've
ever uncovered.

Charlie, look beyond banning alcohol entirely. How about very heavy
taxation so that drinking beyond a socially accepted range becomes too
expensive to sustain?


No, when taxation on any item becomes sufficiently oppressive,
enterprising folks will find a way around that tax -- i.e. bootleg
cigarettes or alcohol. When the taxation rate reaches sufficient
levels, the profit motive / risk margin in bootlegging becomes
sufficiently large that the shadier elements of society view it as a
reasonable endeavor and the formerly law abiding tolerate those shady
elements to get what they want at less confiscatory prices. There is a
law of unintended consequences to the ever-persistent "solution" of
"just tax it until it's too painful to do". The flip side of this is
that to provide sufficient level of enforcement to break the bootlegging
business, the civil liberties of the entire society are sacrificed --
look at the various loss of privacy and liberty already resulting from
the war on drugs.

Aren't we at least trying to do that already? Another one of the reasons
alcohol and tobacco will never be banned is the amount of money the 2
substances bring in to various governments. If marijuana brought in a similar
amount, it would be on sale at all convenience stores.

Charlie Self

Comon, Charlie. If pot and other "recreational drugs" were legalized, regulated
and taxed like booze the amount of tax dollars would be staggering. Just ask
all the "importers" and "retailers" willing to risk serious prision time and
death to keep our supply lines WIDE open in the US. They do it for the HUGE
amounts of money. Very little of that goes to the farmer or the processors.
Legalized with production competition, raw material costs, production costs and
packaging/marketing costs would be nominal - leaving enourmous amounts for
profits and taxes. If you then factor in the reduction in prision costs,
policing costs, court costs and add some funds for detox and treatment programs
and lord only knows how many votes could be bought. (of course you lose the
votes of prision guards, policemen, judges, criminal justice staffers, drug
"importers" and "retailers", and others with a vested interest in the "War
for...ooops ON Drugs").

As to the other poster whose solution to all social ills seems to be taxes,
what "illicit" product or activity that people want has ever been taxed out of
existence? Not tobacco, not drugs, not prostitution, not Big Macs. Methinks
this is just a way to shift the tax burden of all the social programs you want
onto "Other People". These types of taxes are also extremely regressive as
upper middle class and wealthy folks spend a far smaller percentage of their
income on tobacco & booze than poorer people. Hey sounds like that other
panacea for shifting taxes to "Other People" - Gambling.

Dave Hall

sould get a few Wagner CDs, they're always fun to crank the sound up on.
Might scare some of those little twits in the Hondas, maybe they'll
think I'm a reincarnation of Jason, or something. LMAO

LMAO. I just had a mental image of you cruising along with "Ride of the
Valkyries" blaring from the stereo full blast, bearing down on one of those
little hip hop Hondas.

AWWW and here I thought he was talking about Porter...


Dave Hall

Mon, Jan 5, 2004, 11:21am (EST-3)
(Fred=A0the=A0Red=A0Shirt) asks:
snip Ever see booze in a vending machine?
Ever see teenagers drinking beer infront of police officers?

Yes, and yes. But, it's been years back, and mostly oversea. But,
also seen beer vending machines, just like soda machines, in barracks in
the States. Don't know if any of that still happens.

How many places permit drinking in public?

Dunno. But, I've seen a few. None in the U.S, for a long time.

JOAT
Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of
enthusiasm.
- Sir Winston Churchill

Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
Web Page Update 5 Jan 2004.
Some tunes I like.
http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofal...OMETUNESILIKE/

Mon, Jan 5, 2004, 3:43pm (Cape=A0Cod=A0Bob) puts
out:
Charlie, look beyond banning alcohol entirely. How about very heavy
taxation so that drinking beyond a socially accepted range becomes too
expensive to sustain?

Nice thought. How about we include cocain, heroin, and a bunch of
those other drubs? Get rid off all the nasty stuff at once.
Prohibition banned alcohol. Made it illegal. So, people who otherwise
wouldn't have drank started drinking. People made their own. It was
smuggled into the country. Read history, it didn't work then, no reason
it would work now.

JOAT
Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of
enthusiasm.
- Sir Winston Churchill

Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
Web Page Update 5 Jan 2004.
Some tunes I like.
http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofal...OMETUNESILIKE/

Mon, Jan 5, 2004, 3:55pm (Silvan) says:
Push and hold the "source" button for a second or two. snip

Tried that too, didn't work. Maybe I didn't hold it down long
enough. I don't know. I'll just leave it off, from now on. I did get
the part I needed tho. Complete left front spindle for my truck, with
disc brake and all, $25. Hehehe. Mini gloat. Now just gotta get the
boys working on it. Should be rolling again in a few days.

LMAO. I just had a mental image of you cruising along with "Ride of the
Valkyries" blaring from the stereo full blast, bearing down on one of
those little hip hop Hondas.

Hey, when, and if, I ever get the Luv on the road, I'm gonna scare
the crap out of a lot of those Honda drivers. I will get some good CDs,
including the Wagner. I already have a number of bagpipe CDs. Then
just need a CD player, and a couple of loudspeakers under the hood. I'm
gonna have fun. So, if you're ever in this area, and see a raggedy-ass
Luv pickup, with a mature gentleman at the wheel, with traction bars on
it, loud rock & roll, Wagner, or bagpipe music, and a mad smile on his
face, chances are that'll be me.

JOAT
Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of
enthusiasm.
- Sir Winston Churchill

Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
Web Page Update 5 Jan 2004.
Some tunes I like.
http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofal...OMETUNESILIKE/