On 20 Dec 2003 07:29:50 -0800, (Richard Cook) wrote:

Your post reminded me of a question that came up when discussing a
Christmas gift idea with my wife. She was attempting to locate the
larger amp hour (3.5ah)Panasonic drill recently reviewed in a woodworker mag.
She thought she should get me the "set" that included an impact
driver. I was then and am now unable to imagine a use for an impact
driver in woodworking. When I hear/see impact all that comes to mind
is the dismounting and mounting of automobile wheels.

I would appreciate it if you would elaborate on the need for such a
tool in a wood shop.

Regards,
RichardC

They work great for driving lag bolts.

--

John, in Minnesota

On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 16:35:45 GMT, Expert Woodworker
wrote:

LET ME REPEAT: I ENDORSED A LIST OF SPECIFIC TOOLS THAT WERE PICKED OUT BY
MY GRANDSON.

The why would you write the following?

"I have put together a list of medium-caliber power tools that would
make a great first inventory of woodworkers tools. Each of these tools
has been tested and inspected by me. I bought all of the following
tools for my eldest grandson for his Christmas present, so you can see
that I am not suggesting these items out of my butt."

G

PS. I would have gladly articulated more if I were not so aggressively
attacked. I'm just an ole man trying to be helpful.

A few years ago there was a troll thread on another newsgroup where a
poster claimed to HAVE A BROKEN CAPS LOCK KEY, SO HE ALWAYS HAD TO
TYPE IN CAPS. Several regulars in the group offered to send the guy a
free keyboard, and he always replied with excuses like he couldn't get
mail, he had a proprietary connector, the dog chased the mailman away,
etc... He also played the sympathy card once the group chased him
out from under the troll bridge, just as you seem to be doing.

We've all been newbies, so many of us really do try to help them.
Many of us also blow the BS horn when something that dosen't compute
when added to our own experiences to help actual newbies not have to
make the same mistakes we've made.

Regardless of whether you are a troll, spammer, or simply a helpful,
well-meaning poster, I'm bored of this whole thing. I'll be on my way
now. Only you know which one you really are. Feel free to
demonstrate to us which category you fit into in future threads.

Barry

On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 10:52:02 -0600, "Swingman" wrote:

The shiny lure, accurately cast, barely caused a ripple as it 'plonked' into
the placid waters of the old wRec ....

I can't explain it, but sometimes I actually enjoy responding to a
troll for a while. Today is obviously one of those days! G

Barry

On 20 Dec 2003 07:29:50 -0800, (Richard Cook) wrote:

Your post reminded me of a question that came up when discussing a
Christmas gift idea with my wife. She was attempting to locate the
larger amp hour (3.5ah)Panasonic drill recently reviewed in a woodworker mag.
She thought she should get me the "set" that included an impact
driver. I was then and am now unable to imagine a use for an impact
driver in woodworking. When I hear/see impact all that comes to mind
is the dismounting and mounting of automobile wheels.

I would appreciate it if you would elaborate on the need for such a
tool in a wood shop.

Regards,
RichardC



ackshooly, I have heard (tho not tried it out myself) that those
things can eliminate camout when driving phillips head screws. I have
a dedicated screwdriver, more like the air tool described in the OP's
OP.

Bridger

Swingman wrote:
The shiny lure, accurately cast, barely caused a ripple as it 'plonked' into
the placid waters of the old wRec ....
The Question: Is David at it again?

You might just be right. Xnews, munged addy, overlooking the last line
of my reply about providing a sig line that works. And he pushed all
the right buttons.... Sounds a lot like an inside job.
Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net

Expert Woodworker shouts:

Wouldn't a woodworker need some sort of measuring device and angle
layout tools? What would you recommend?

Of course, I have tons of this stuff around. He did not need to buy this.

LET ME REPEAT: I ENDORSED A LIST OF SPECIFIC TOOLS THAT WERE PICKED OUT BY
MY GRANDSON.

PS. I would have gladly articulated more if I were not so aggressively
attacked. I'm just an ole man trying to be helpful. Sorry if I appear to be
a joke in your eyes.

You might have been less aggressively attacked if your first note was more
reasoned. You presented your under $500 list as the be-all and end-all of a
start-up shop, not as an approval of items picked by your grandson. But you
provided NO such explanation, nor did you explain he had access to your
measuring and layout tools, or your compressors.

You attacked members of the group first, not by name, but by group, stating
that the "self appointed experts" were jerks who wanted everyone to buy only
top of the line tools. Yet you resent being taken to task for a relatively
goofy list of tools for a beginner--it is actually a better list for someone
expert enough to allow for, and get around, the failings of such cheap tools,
and even then, it's not much good.

You continue to anoint yourself as an Expert Woodworker, but other than tirades
about how you have been attacked, you provide no information about your work,
whether as a teacher or a woodworker, hobbyist or pro. We not only don't know
WHO you are, we don't know WHAT you are simply because you refuse to tell us
even the basics.

Yet you whine on about being attacked aggressively, as you snarl at those who
question your "expert" judgment.

Charlie Self

"Man is a reasoning rather than a reasonable animal."
Alexander Hamilton

http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/m.../business.html

otforme (Charlie Self) wrote

You continue to anoint yourself as an Expert Woodworker

No, I never did that. It is just a handle. I already apologized for
ruffling your feathers. Like I said, I am not an efficient communicator.

As a newbie woodworker, I appreciate any info that someone might give about
tools. It really is up to the individual looking at that information to
question it's validity. Sometimes you must compromise on tools to start
working while you save up for the next purchase you really drool over.

I, myself, have some not so fantastic tools from Canadian tire, but they
help me get the job done, albeit a little slower and with a little more
care. Judge the intentions of the man and not the content. It is unfair to
critisize this individual with such callousness when he is cleary trying to
help some people get started in this hobby. After almost breaking the bank
just to get a few tools for my own home shop, I can understand the post.
Not everyone can afford to go out and spend a few thousand dollars to get
the good stuff right away. Cheap tools might not cut as well or last as
long or may be noisier, but knowing this and taking more precautions on a
new project can overcome some of these limitations.

Buyer beware is the only thing you need to add to this post. As most of us
are adults this should be an apparent rule. Always search out more
information before making a purchase.

Thats my rant.

Happy holidays to everyone in the group

John Van Schaik




"Swingman" wrote in message
...
The shiny lure, accurately cast, barely caused a ripple as it 'plonked'
into
the placid waters of the old wRec ....

The Question: Is David at it again?

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 12/18/03


"Expert Woodworker" wrote in message

WORKING TIPS FOR NEW WOODWORKERS - Episode 1

On Sat 20 Dec 2003 10:52:02a, "Swingman" wrote in
:

The shiny lure, accurately cast, barely caused a ripple as it
'plonked' into the placid waters of the old wRec ....

Yeah, I was wandering through this thread and it came to me: "If you do
just a little research first, and really sit down and THINK about the best
way to troll a group you can really come up with a winner."

Dan

"John" wrote in
news:7R%Eb.767067$9l5.294022@pd7tw2no:

As a newbie woodworker, I appreciate any info that someone might give
about tools. It really is up to the individual looking at that
information to question it's validity. Sometimes you must compromise
on tools to start working while you save up for the next purchase you
really drool over.

I, myself, have some not so fantastic tools from Canadian tire, but
they
help me get the job done, albeit a little slower and with a little
more care. Judge the intentions of the man and not the content. It
is unfair to critisize this individual with such callousness when he
is cleary trying to help some people get started in this hobby. After
almost breaking the bank just to get a few tools for my own home shop,
I can understand the post. Not everyone can afford to go out and spend
a few thousand dollars to get the good stuff right away. Cheap tools
might not cut as well or last as long or may be noisier, but knowing
this and taking more precautions on a new project can overcome some of
these limitations.

Buyer beware is the only thing you need to add to this post. As most
of us
are adults this should be an apparent rule. Always search out more
information before making a purchase.

Thats my rant.

Happy holidays to everyone in the group

John Van Schaik

Thank you, John. Enjoy your holidays too.

Dan wrote in
:

On Sat 20 Dec 2003 10:52:02a, "Swingman" wrote in
:

The shiny lure, accurately cast, barely caused a ripple as it
'plonked' into the placid waters of the old wRec ....

Yeah, I was wandering through this thread and it came to me: "If you
do just a little research first, and really sit down and THINK about
the best way to troll a group you can really come up with a winner."

Dan




Say what you will. I was only trying to be helpful to beginners on a budget
based on a recent purchase that I was unexpectedly satisfied with.

I'm not going to judge your experience, but as a relative newbie I'll
make the following comments:

-- Buying cheap, inferior stuff is indeed a big mistake. I've learned
that first-hand. That's why I've been replacing the crap I bought in
the price range you suggest with high-midrange tools, like a Bosch
router and a Milwaukee circ saw. The $300 CAD Skil table saw is the
next to go. As others have said, a skilled woodworker can use cheap
tools because they have the experience to get around the severe
limitations of the tools. That's not me. I wouldn't recommend any of
the tools on your list to a newbie because I've worked with that
quality of tool *as a newbie* and the experience is frustrating. (Okay,
the $6.49 glue gun is probably a decent buy)

-- Coming into this community with an abrasive post (your third
paragraph) is guaranteed to raise the hackle of people who are indeed
skilled craftsmen who willing offer their knowledge and experience to
folks like me. I know what I'm talking about here... I think my first
or second post was an embarassing flame of Keith Bohn for which I was
taken to task in a private email by another senior member. I like to
think I learned that lesson.

-- This is an incredible community of people. Like any community, we
have a wide range of personalities. Stick around a while, take the
occasional chill pill, and share some of your 40 years experience with
us.

djb

--
There are no socks in my email address.

"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati"

In article ,
says...
WORKING TIPS FOR NEW WOODWORKERS - Episode 1

.... snip of low-end tool selection
You will want to buy better blades for the 2 saws, but that should bring
your grand total to about $500, shipped. Keep in mind, this is not high end
stuff, but then again is is not the bottom of the barrel.

Guess it depends upon the barrel you're looking in.

You can check
around the HF site, but I would go with the list above. They sell cheaper
models for almost each tool on the list, but these have all been tested by
a professional with more than 40 years experience, yours truly!

IN THE NEXT EPISODE 2: How to use your table saw
as a boat anchor




David,

Is that you playing with us? Or UA100? If so, good troll!

I must say that I am shocked at the personal attacks I have gotten today. I
knew that there would be one or two, but I certainly am surprised at the
volume. I am up in years. I am not as young as most of you probably are. I
offered advice on a series of products that I recently purchased and I have
been accused of being a spammer, and my experience has been questioned. Did
I ever say...hey don't buy a Jet cabinet saw or a Unisaw if you are a
veteran. No. Heck, I don't understand this generation much at all.

But you haven't answered the questions posed to you, as to why you
recommend certain items.

Let's see some pics.

Expert Woodworker wrote in message . 5.95...
(Tom Bergman) wrote in
om:

God I hope I haven't been suckered into replying to troll/spam.

But for a beginner woodworker, I can't imagine why on earth you'd
recommend their first tools include a 1/2" hammer drill, a glue gun,
and a paint gun.



Would a spammer admit that many of the products sold by the company in
question are garbage? Probably not. I found the SPECIFIC items on the list
to be adequate for a BEGINNER. Why are you so harsh?

When you continue to dodge and ignore the questions posed to you, and
in fact, get OFFENDED that someone dare question the "expert
woodworker", what do you expect? Answer the legitimate questions
posed.

"Me" wrote in message news:dmXEb.609477$Fm2.551816@attbi_s04...
Looks like spam from harborfreight to me....

"Expert Woodworker" wrote in message

Well, if you read between the line, his email address does say "PRO SPAM"!!!

Sat, Dec 20, 2003, 11:55am (EST+5)
(Expert=A0Woodworker) posts:
WORKING TIPS snip

I thought it was rather interesting that an air screwdriver was
recommended.. Expecially since there was no air compressor mentioned.
An airless paint sprayer was listed, but If I had an air compressor, I
would use an air spray gun.

JOAT
Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we are here we might
as well dance.
- Unknown

Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
Web Page Update 19 Dec 2003.
Some tunes I like.
http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofal...OMETUNESILIKE/

Sat, Dec 20, 2003, 4:35pm (EST+5)
(Expert=A0Woodworker) says:
snip I gave my grandson an old compressor of mine, so he did not need
to buy one. snip

Ah, coulda said from the beginning, woulda saved a lot of
confusion.

JOAT
Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we are here we might
as well dance.
- Unknown

Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
Web Page Update 19 Dec 2003.
Some tunes I like.
http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofal...OMETUNESILIKE/

In article ,
otforme says...
Expert Woodworker shouts:

.... snip
You continue to anoint yourself as an Expert Woodworker, but other than tirades
about how you have been attacked, you provide no information about your work,
whether as a teacher or a woodworker, hobbyist or pro. We not only don't know
WHO you are, we don't know WHAT you are simply because you refuse to tell us
even the basics.


A few years ago, Aviation Week magazine re-ran their "man behind the
desk" ad. There is a dour looking old gentleman in suit and tie sitting
behind a desk, the caption goes (from memory):

"I don't know you, I don't know your company, I don't know what you
stand for, I don't know your reputation. Now, what was it you wanted
to sell me?"

Expert Woodworker wrote in message . 5.95...


$119 US General - TABLE SAW (with stand)
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=46987

I have seen a saw quite similar to this one and found that the table
was not flat and the parallel guide mounting prone to yield under the
lightest of efforts. This makes this saw a rather dangerous tool. You
may want to check on that, because you do not want your son to be
injured.

Charlie Self wrote:

models for almost each tool on the list, but these have all been tested by
a professional with more than 40 years experience, yours truly!

Resume, please.

He's not telling the truth, I guaran-damn-tee. Spamming has only been
around for a little over 10 years now, so there's no way he has over 40
years of experience in his profession.

Just so newbies don't get sucked in by the spam, here are some real thoughts
on that subject from a bona fide low budget woodworker...

A complete wood shop for under $500?

No, I can't do it. I sat down to do a bit of figuring, and the best
reasonably complete shop I could come up with was $750. That was a small
table saw, a good corded hand drill, a workbench, vises, sharpening gear,
chisels, two inexpensive used hand planes, rulers/gauges/squares, clamps,
basic drill bits, basic hammer/screwdriver/utility knife, economy backsaw,
flush cut saw, cheap circular saw, and a couple of decent Freud blades for
the power saws.

It notably did not include a router, router table, router bits, sander,
drill press, bandsaw or even a shop vac, so it wasn't even as complete as
my own little shop.

It's nuts to think you have to start with all of that though. I started
with a backsaw, a miter box, a cheap jigsaw, a cheap combination square, a
hammer, a Craftman screwdriver set and an electric drill. Most of these
were wedding gifts. The only tools I remember going out to purchase were
the backsaw/miter box kit and a cheap set of B&D countersink bits.

Among other things, the plant stand and house shaped curio box on my web
site were fashioned with nothing more than those simple tools. Fashioned
in my *kitchen* I might add. So was my tool cabinet. I still have and use
all of these things to this day.

When starting out, one trick is to buy as much as you can pre-cut to size.
Avoid complex joinery and complex clamping by using screws and nails.
Exploit every source of free, salvage wood from pallets to trash piles.
Don't let all these folks on here with $15,000 tool collections and 1,000
sq. ft. shops fool you into thinking it takes a fortune to wreck some wood.
They most likely didn't start out with all of that either, and they most
likely didn't get all of that in one shot.

Begin at the beginning. Don't even try to buy a shop in a box. Buy tools
as you appreciate the need for them. That way you get things you will use,
instead of things somebody on the internet told you you'd need.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

In article ,
wrote:
[rearranged and snipped for clarity]
el sniperino
Here are the headers of our ****new expert woodworker****
Please note line 6.

Organization: Pro Woodworking Society

I'm not sure what your point is here. Can you elaborate?

--
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

How come we choose from just two people to run for president and 50 for Miss America?

Mark & Juanita asks:

Guess it depends upon the barrel you're looking in.

You can check
around the HF site, but I would go with the list above. They sell cheaper
models for almost each tool on the list, but these have all been tested by
a professional with more than 40 years experience, yours truly!

IN THE NEXT EPISODE 2: How to use your table saw
as a boat anchor




David,

Is that you playing with us? Or UA100? If so, good troll!

I'm more and more of the opinion that this has the look, scent, feel of D.
Eisan, Esquire (that's an old title, back before the lawyers stole it).

Charlie Self

"Man is a reasoning rather than a reasonable animal."
Alexander Hamilton

http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/m.../business.html

Well said Dave.

Bob S.


-- This is an incredible community of people. Like any community, we
have a wide range of personalities. Stick around a while, take the
occasional chill pill, and share some of your 40 years experience with
us.

djb

"Expert Woodworker" wrote in message
.95...

snip

I am impressed "Expert Woodworker". While your woodworking is highly
suspect you are second to none in your trolling ability. Any of the trolls
posting the obvious, easy to filter type profanity trolls could take a
lesson from you. This post has gotten lots of responses from regulars who
have wasted their time disputing you.

Congratulations on a job well done. Now into the twit filter you go.

Frank

"Expert Woodworker" wrote in message
.95...
WORKING TIPS FOR NEW WOODWORKERS - Episode 1

Gee, I've learned so much from this thread.

"Expert Woodworker" wrote in message
.95...
"Jim Helfer" wrote in
:

You may have tested the particular item, but who's to say that when
_I_
buy one, it won't be the same branding, but completely diffferent (and
even junkier) guts? That's how these cheap tool makers work, isn't
it? (That's how cheap PC builders work).

Also, I have some air tools, and use them from time-to-time, but
what the
heck is an air screwdriver?

Jim H



"Expert Woodworker" wrote in message
.95...
B a r r y B u r k e J r .
wrote in :

On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 13:43:50 GMT, Expert Woodworker
wrote:

Newbies: these are the jerks that I tried to warn you about. I am
sure that the overwhelming majority of users here are quality
people, but a small percentage of them are real jerks.

Any newbie who does a Google group search can tell that I provide
help quite often here, as well as learning a whole bunch myself:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Ke...group_please%4
0ao
l.com+group:rec.woodworking&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&group=rec.wo
odw orking&start=10&sa=N

Yet a search for your posts includes one post, a "helpful" list of
Harbor Freight items:

Stop the two bit detective work. I never claimed to be a long time
Usenet poster. That does not put a dent in my woodworking experience.
Like I
said,
the specific tools that I endorsed are fine for a beginner. Not an
advanced
amateur or a pro. And yes, I agree that a good amount of the HF stuff
is crap, the the stuff I bought for my grandson turned out to be
fine.


I must say that I am shocked at the personal attacks I have gotten today.
I
knew that there would be one or two, but I certainly am surprised at the
volume. I am up in years. I am not as young as most of you probably are. I
offered advice on a series of products that I recently purchased and I
have
been accused of being a spammer, and my experience has been questioned.
Did
I ever say...hey don't buy a Jet cabinet saw or a Unisaw if you are a
veteran. No. Heck, I don't understand this generation much at all.


Old age is no excuse for bad manners. Your replied to my message with a
complaint about personal attacks. My message contained only polite
questions. There is no way a reasonable person could have interpreted my
remarks as being of a personal manner.

Jim Helfer
"Beginning Woodworker" (And my age is simply and accident of birth).

Dave Fleming wrote:
Hey Frank remember The_ADZE and Cosmo Lengro and his brother Mongo?

Them was trolls.

Heh Heh Heh.

Ditto.

UA100

While I can't totally agree with the list of tools it's close enough and the
differences would just amount to personal preferences.

All in all though, I would say that that (Silvan;s) post truly contained
truly expert advice.

--
Mike G.

Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
"Silvan" wrote in message
...
Charlie Self wrote:

models for almost each tool on the list, but these have all been tested
by
a professional with more than 40 years experience, yours truly!

Resume, please.

He's not telling the truth, I guaran-damn-tee. Spamming has only been
around for a little over 10 years now, so there's no way he has over 40
years of experience in his profession.

Just so newbies don't get sucked in by the spam, here are some real
thoughts
on that subject from a bona fide low budget woodworker...

A complete wood shop for under $500?

No, I can't do it. I sat down to do a bit of figuring, and the best
reasonably complete shop I could come up with was $750. That was a small
table saw, a good corded hand drill, a workbench, vises, sharpening gear,
chisels, two inexpensive used hand planes, rulers/gauges/squares, clamps,
basic drill bits, basic hammer/screwdriver/utility knife, economy backsaw,
flush cut saw, cheap circular saw, and a couple of decent Freud blades for
the power saws.

It notably did not include a router, router table, router bits, sander,
drill press, bandsaw or even a shop vac, so it wasn't even as complete as
my own little shop.

It's nuts to think you have to start with all of that though. I started
with a backsaw, a miter box, a cheap jigsaw, a cheap combination square, a
hammer, a Craftman screwdriver set and an electric drill. Most of these
were wedding gifts. The only tools I remember going out to purchase were
the backsaw/miter box kit and a cheap set of B&D countersink bits.

Among other things, the plant stand and house shaped curio box on my web
site were fashioned with nothing more than those simple tools. Fashioned
in my *kitchen* I might add. So was my tool cabinet. I still have and
use
all of these things to this day.

When starting out, one trick is to buy as much as you can pre-cut to size.
Avoid complex joinery and complex clamping by using screws and nails.
Exploit every source of free, salvage wood from pallets to trash piles.
Don't let all these folks on here with $15,000 tool collections and 1,000
sq. ft. shops fool you into thinking it takes a fortune to wreck some
wood.
They most likely didn't start out with all of that either, and they most
likely didn't get all of that in one shot.

Begin at the beginning. Don't even try to buy a shop in a box. Buy tools
as you appreciate the need for them. That way you get things you will
use,
instead of things somebody on the internet told you you'd need.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

"Expert Woodworker" wrote in message
.95.

Say what you will. I was only trying to be helpful to beginners on a
budget
based on a recent purchase that I was unexpectedly satisfied with.


All right, say you are given the benefit of the doubt, which is unlikely to
happen now, To pick just one item of your list of the ridiculous, how would
you justify recommending a 5 pound, 1/2" chuck, hammer drill as a suitable
tool for a newbie. In the week or two I've been woodworking I can count on
the fingers of one hand the number of times I needed a half inch chuck. I
have never ever needed a hammer drill, nor would I want to be horsing around
one that weighed five pounds while I was trying put in some pocket screws.
True it sure would sink them home and then some but having the screws
sticking out of the other side of the boards isn't all that pretty. I'd have
to check to be sure of the price but I believe that the HF catalog has 12 V
cordless drills at a comparable price and they have clutches in them too
boot which is sufficient for a beginner on a budget and far more practical.

I'll give you a break and not even ask about the pneumatic screwdriver.

--
Mike G.

Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
...
Dan wrote in
:

On Sat 20 Dec 2003 10:52:02a, "Swingman" wrote in
:

The shiny lure, accurately cast, barely caused a ripple as it
'plonked' into the placid waters of the old wRec ....

Yeah, I was wandering through this thread and it came to me: "If you
do just a little research first, and really sit down and THINK about
the best way to troll a group you can really come up with a winner."

Dan

On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 16:16:46 -0500, Silvan
wrote:

A complete wood shop for under $500?

I'll do you one for $100. Go read Mike Abbott's "Green Woodworking"
and you can tool up to make chairs with little more than an axe, a
turning chisel and a couple of drawknives.

Of course, you'll be entirely stumped trying to make a birdbox out of
two scraps of plywood, but specialisation is the cost of the low
entry-cost approach.

There's also an excellent book by the Intermediate Technology people
on how to teach woodworking in Africa, by teaching your class to make
their own hand tools from wood and truck leafsprings.
--
Smert' spamionam

Hell, I remember Cosmo and Mongo. Weren't they the ones who were asking the
group for advice on the best tools to buy in order to build a flying replica
of the Spruce Goose?

Ah, we don't get trolls like them thar no more...sigh

Cheers

Frank





"Unisaw A100" wrote in message
...
Dave Fleming wrote:
Hey Frank remember The_ADZE and Cosmo Lengro and his brother Mongo?

Them was trolls.

Heh Heh Heh.

Ditto.

UA100

Expert Woodworker wrote


WORKING TIPS FOR NEW WOODWORKERS - Episode 1

Hi. I am woodworker with over 40 years of professional experience. I
am posting this series of episodes to help new woodworkers with some
basics that most newbies are confused about.

POWER TOOLS: Most new woodworkers are very confused about their first
tool purchases. There is temptation to buy cheap, inferior stuff when
you are new because you don't want to invest that much in an activity
that you may not be very good at. Woodworking, IMHO, does require a
natural talent and you need to spend a fair amount of time woodworking
before you would know if you have this talent. But, if you buy the
cheapest tools you can find, you will probably get discouraged before
you go very far.

Then you will have the self-procalimed experts (like some of the
regulars of this newsgroup) who will tell you to start out with only
the best. This is nothing but pure liquid hogwash! There is no reason
you need to blow your life savings on power tools to get started as a
woodworker.

Episode 1 - YOUR OWN SHOP FOR UNDER $500:

I have put together a list of medium-caliber power tools that would
make a great first inventory of woodworkers tools. Each of these tools
has been tested and inspected by me. I bought all of the following
tools for my eldest grandson for his Christmas present, so you can see
that I am not suggesting these items out of my butt.

THE LIST:

$119 US General - TABLE SAW (with stand)
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=46987

$79.99 Chicago Electric - 3 HP PLUNGE ROUTER
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=37793

$24.99 Chicago Electric - 1/2'' VARIABLE SPEED REVERSIBLE HAMMER DRILL
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=45338

$49.99 Dewalt - 1/4 SHEET HEAVY DUTY PALM GRIP SANDER
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...temnumber=1284

$39.99 Central Pneumatic - 1/4'' AIR SCREWDRIVER
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=45266

$6.49 Chicago Electric - GLUE GUN
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=47445

$39.99 Chicago Electric - BISCUIT JOINER KIT
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=38648

$39.99 Wagner - POWER PAINTER
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=30760

$34.99 Chicago Electric - 7-1/4'' CIRCULAR SAW
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=46866

You will want to buy better blades for the 2 saws, but that should
bring your grand total to about $500, shipped. Keep in mind, this is
not high end stuff, but then again is is not the bottom of the barrel.
You can check around the HF site, but I would go with the list above.
They sell cheaper models for almost each tool on the list, but these
have all been tested by a professional with more than 40 years
experience, yours truly!

IN THE NEXT EPISODE 2: How to use your table saw


ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

--
Bill

Nice advertisement for Harbor Freight there, bucko. If you were a tenth of
the "expert" you say you are, you wouldn't be recommending crap like that to
anyone, and especially on *this* newsgroup.

Have fun getting killfiled quickly. I can't wait to see what kind of advice
you give out in Part 2.

Jon E


"Expert Woodworker" wrote in message
.95...
WORKING TIPS FOR NEW WOODWORKERS - Episode 1

Hi. I am woodworker with over 40 years of professional experience. I am
posting this series of episodes to help new woodworkers with some basics
that most newbies are confused about.

THE LIST:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=46987
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=37793
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=45338
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...temnumber=1284
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=45266
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=47445
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=38648
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=30760
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=46866

In article , Andy Dingley
wrote:

There's also an excellent book by the Intermediate Technology people
on how to teach woodworking in Africa, by teaching your class to make
their own hand tools from wood and truck leafsprings.


Do you have a title for that one, Andy? Sounds interesting.

djb

--
There are no socks in my email address.

"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati"

"Silvan" wrote in message
...
It's nuts to think you have to start with all of that though. I started
with a backsaw, a miter box, a cheap jigsaw, a cheap combination square, a
hammer, a Craftman screwdriver set and an electric drill. Most of these
were wedding gifts. The only tools I remember going out to purchase were
the backsaw/miter box kit and a cheap set of B&D countersink bits.

I normally just lurk, but I have just got to know. How did you end up with
tools for wedding gifts. All I got was a bunch of fancy plates that I ain't
allowed to eat off of. I tried to register at Grizzly, but SWMBO shot that
idea down. In fact she shot that down before she was even in office yet. The
only good thing about them plates is that I had to build a cabinet to put
them in. So of course I had to get some more clamps and some other tools.

But to try to steer things back to the topic. I got most of my equipment
in the process of building projects. I now have a fairly complete shop, just
by convincing SWMBO that she needed something that I didn't have the correct
tool to make.

Just this last month, she wanted some Christmas ornaments, so I
convinced her my 16" craftsman scroll saw wasn't up to the task. So I got
the new 20" Dewalt. Then my stepmother called me. She makes hand woven
baskets and she was complaining about the quality of the various wooden
parts she buys to use on her baskets. So I had to go out and buy a bandsaw
to resaw the rough oak I have into blanks for basket handles. Then of course
I had to build a steamer so I could bend the handles.
Then I had to build forms to stick the steamed wood in.

You know, I thought I was a fairly intelligent person. I work in
manufacturing, and have been able to handle anything that has come in the
door. So I just assumed that I could steam wood with no trouble. Boy was I
wrong. I didn't consider all the factors involved. Between the wood type,
grain direction, grain shape, and moisture content it's really a PITA. She
wanted oak handles, and I have a large supply of rough sawn 2x8 oak.
Unfortunately it's about 30 years old and really dry. The first time I tried
bending the handles, 90 percent of them cracked either while bending them,
or while they were drying.
Oops, I really wandered off topic. if you're interested in the trials
and tribulation of learning to bend wood with no help. let me know and I'll
start a new thread. Although I like to think of myself as and expert, I am
still wise enough to know I'm not really that smart, just to stupid to give
up.

hammer, a Craftman screwdriver set and an electric drill. Most of these
were wedding gifts. The only tools I remember going out to purchase
were
the backsaw/miter box kit and a cheap set of B&D countersink bits.

I normally just lurk, but I have just got to know. How did you end up with
tools for wedding gifts.

I think that was a very stealthful drive-by gloat :-)

Good catch.

On 20 Dec 2003, Tom Watson spake unto rec.woodworking:


Man, this smells so much like Davey...

Nah, Davey'd be working today, this close to Christmas.

The Harbor Fright stuff don't bother me none - I just can't figger a
self proclaimed old fart would be using Xnews.

Now, Scotty Cramer uses Xnews...


I wish I could confess to being this exciting new Wreck contributor,
but I'm afraid it ain't so. I rarely read the group on weekends, and don't
have Xnews on the home computer. It is nice to see some competition for
the resident BAD boy, though. You're right, however... somebody so
clueless in the usenet department would be unlikely to be an Xnews user.

Not a harsh word in there. Why don't you answer the question about
why a 1/2" hammer drill, a glue gun, and a paint gun would good
starter tools for a beginner? I'm a long way from a beginner (or just
beginning - depends on who in the wreck I'm compared to) and I see
little or no use for those three specific tools.

What do you propose be made here - a spray painted craft wreath with
glued on fake fruit, Hilti bolted to the sidewalk?

Ok, the 1/2" hammer drill can drill plain old holes in wood too, but a
standard corded or cordless 3/8" is a lot more appropriate for that.

wouldn't things like chisels, layout tools, scrapers, planes, a good
paint (well, one for varnish or shellac) brush make just a wee bit
more sense for a beginning woodworker?

Face it, you gave bad advice.

And that's just a wee bit harsh.


Would a spammer admit that many of the products sold by the company in
question are garbage? Probably not. I found the SPECIFIC items on the list
to be adequate for a BEGINNER. Why are you so harsh?

Robert Smith wrote:

I normally just lurk, but I have just got to know. How did you end up with
tools for wedding gifts. All I got was a bunch of fancy plates that I

I got most of the stuff from Dad as part of a "setting up housekeeping" type
package. A drill, hammer, screwdrivers, drill bits, screwdriver bits...
Pretty practical you're a man now stuff. Maybe I got some of it that first
Christmas.

ain't allowed to eat off of. I tried to register at Grizzly, but SWMBO

We got a lot of stuff like that too. I was a foreign language major in my
last semester when I rather abruptly got to learn about EPT, Lamaze, and
trying to support a family on a minimum wage work study job... I got some
very useful towels, the last of which I just consigned to rag detail
recently. Everything else was fancy Euroweird stuff. Linen napkins, fine
china, exotic handmade lace thingies, crystal.

I eat with my elbows on the table, always eat with the longest fork and the
biggest spoon I can find, and I still haven't figured out what I'm supposed
to do with the exotic handmade lace thingies. I think the exotic china and
crystal are in the cabinet over the fridge. I haven't opened it since we
moved into this house six years ago.

We don't have a lot of company, and the company we do have doesn't know what
to do with the exotic handmade lace thingies either.

I've found the crystal is pretty solid. It doesn't tip over easily, so they
make *great* containers for holding brush dipping water for doing
watercolors. Wickford? Weckford? Wedgewood? Good for cracking nuts into
too.

shot that idea down. In fact she shot that down before she was even in
office yet. The only good thing about them plates is that I had to build a
cabinet to put them in. So of course I had to get some more clamps and
some other tools.

Me too. Not *those* plates, but some other ones. The *good* stuff is
buried in dust somewhere. The not-so-good stuff got me the router table I
think, and a bunch of pipe clamps for sure. I built a hutch to mount onto
a dresser so we could display those plates. They have since been relegated
to some other forgotten corner to make way for SWMBO's Barbie collection.

All in all, we probably have four or five sets of plates, and we eat off the
stuff my wife got in college.

in the process of building projects. I now have a fairly complete shop,
just by convincing SWMBO that she needed something that I didn't have the
correct tool to make.

Me too. I've also used other tactics. As a recent example, I wanted to get
into hand planes. SWMBO balked at the price of all the stuff I needed to
buy to get started, so I took her out to Lowe's and showed her how much it
costs to buy a cheap benchtop planer and jointer. That shut her up real
quick like.

door. So I just assumed that I could steam wood with no trouble. Boy was I
wrong. I didn't consider all the factors involved. Between the wood type,

I can imagine. I haven't tried anything that large-scale or purposeful, but
I've played with bending popsicle sticks for some reason or other. It's a
real PITA just bending one of those little things without breaking it.
Wood bending people are half mad I think.

Oops, I really wandered off topic. if you're interested in the trials
and tribulation of learning to bend wood with no help. let me know and
I'll start a new thread. Although I like to think of myself as and expert,
I am still wise enough to know I'm not really that smart, just to stupid
to give up.

Go for it! SWMBO does the craft show thing, and she uses a lot of Chiwanese
baskets. I've been thinking for years I could make something better.
Maybe you can talk me out of even thinking about trying, or talk me into a
new tool. Whichever.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/