WORKING TIPS FOR NEW WOODWORKERS - Episode 1

Hi. I am woodworker with over 40 years of professional experience. I am
posting this series of episodes to help new woodworkers with some basics
that most newbies are confused about.

POWER TOOLS: Most new woodworkers are very confused about their first tool
purchases. There is temptation to buy cheap, inferior stuff when you are
new because you don't want to invest that much in an activity that you may
not be very good at. Woodworking, IMHO, does require a natural talent and
you need to spend a fair amount of time woodworking before you would know
if you have this talent. But, if you buy the cheapest tools you can find,
you will probably get discouraged before you go very far.

Then you will have the self-procalimed experts (like some of the regulars
of this newsgroup) who will tell you to start out with only the best. This
is nothing but pure liquid hogwash! There is no reason you need to blow
your life savings on power tools to get started as a woodworker.

Episode 1 - YOUR OWN SHOP FOR UNDER $500:

I have put together a list of medium-caliber power tools that would make a
great first inventory of woodworkers tools. Each of these tools has been
tested and inspected by me. I bought all of the following tools for my
eldest grandson for his Christmas present, so you can see that I am not
suggesting these items out of my butt.

THE LIST:

$119 US General - TABLE SAW (with stand)
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=46987

$79.99 Chicago Electric - 3 HP PLUNGE ROUTER
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=37793

$24.99 Chicago Electric - 1/2'' VARIABLE SPEED REVERSIBLE HAMMER DRILL
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=45338

$49.99 Dewalt - 1/4 SHEET HEAVY DUTY PALM GRIP SANDER
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...temnumber=1284

$39.99 Central Pneumatic - 1/4'' AIR SCREWDRIVER
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=45266

$6.49 Chicago Electric - GLUE GUN
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=47445

$39.99 Chicago Electric - BISCUIT JOINER KIT
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=38648

$39.99 Wagner - POWER PAINTER
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=30760

$34.99 Chicago Electric - 7-1/4'' CIRCULAR SAW
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=46866

You will want to buy better blades for the 2 saws, but that should bring
your grand total to about $500, shipped. Keep in mind, this is not high end
stuff, but then again is is not the bottom of the barrel. You can check
around the HF site, but I would go with the list above. They sell cheaper
models for almost each tool on the list, but these have all been tested by
a professional with more than 40 years experience, yours truly!

IN THE NEXT EPISODE 2: How to use your table saw

An air screwdriver and no compressor? A $79 3 hp plunge router? Hmmm.

I smell a little "self proclaimed expert". Look in the mirror. Try being a
little humble and let us figure out if you are credible. I look forward to
your episode 2.

Bob

"Expert Woodworker" wrote in message
.95...
WORKING TIPS FOR NEW WOODWORKERS - Episode 1

Hi. I am woodworker with over 40 years of professional experience. I am
posting this series of episodes to help new woodworkers with some basics
that most newbies are confused about.

POWER TOOLS: Most new woodworkers are very confused about their first tool
purchases. There is temptation to buy cheap, inferior stuff when you are
new because you don't want to invest that much in an activity that you may
not be very good at. Woodworking, IMHO, does require a natural talent and
you need to spend a fair amount of time woodworking before you would know
if you have this talent. But, if you buy the cheapest tools you can find,
you will probably get discouraged before you go very far.

Then you will have the self-procalimed experts (like some of the regulars
of this newsgroup) who will tell you to start out with only the best. This
is nothing but pure liquid hogwash! There is no reason you need to blow
your life savings on power tools to get started as a woodworker.

Episode 1 - YOUR OWN SHOP FOR UNDER $500:

I have put together a list of medium-caliber power tools that would make a
great first inventory of woodworkers tools. Each of these tools has been
tested and inspected by me. I bought all of the following tools for my
eldest grandson for his Christmas present, so you can see that I am not
suggesting these items out of my butt.

THE LIST:

$119 US General - TABLE SAW (with stand)
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=46987

$79.99 Chicago Electric - 3 HP PLUNGE ROUTER
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=37793

$24.99 Chicago Electric - 1/2'' VARIABLE SPEED REVERSIBLE HAMMER DRILL
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=45338

$49.99 Dewalt - 1/4 SHEET HEAVY DUTY PALM GRIP SANDER
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...temnumber=1284

$39.99 Central Pneumatic - 1/4'' AIR SCREWDRIVER
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=45266

$6.49 Chicago Electric - GLUE GUN
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=47445

$39.99 Chicago Electric - BISCUIT JOINER KIT
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=38648

$39.99 Wagner - POWER PAINTER
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=30760

$34.99 Chicago Electric - 7-1/4'' CIRCULAR SAW
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=46866

You will want to buy better blades for the 2 saws, but that should bring
your grand total to about $500, shipped. Keep in mind, this is not high
end
stuff, but then again is is not the bottom of the barrel. You can check
around the HF site, but I would go with the list above. They sell cheaper
models for almost each tool on the list, but these have all been tested by
a professional with more than 40 years experience, yours truly!

IN THE NEXT EPISODE 2: How to use your table saw

"Expert Woodworker" wrote in message
.95...
WORKING TIPS FOR NEW WOODWORKERS - Episode 1

Gee, I've learned so much from this thread.

On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 11:55:12 GMT, Expert Woodworker
wrote:

Then you will have the self-procalimed experts (like some of the regulars
of this newsgroup) who will tell you to start out with only the best. This
is nothing but pure liquid hogwash! There is no reason you need to blow
your life savings on power tools to get started as a woodworker.

Agreed!

I have put together a list of medium-caliber power tools

Whaaa?

$119 US General - TABLE SAW (with stand)
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=46987

A high quality handheld circular saw with a good rip guide would be a
far better investment than this POS.


$79.99 Chicago Electric - 3 HP PLUNGE ROUTER
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=37793

Sounds too good to be true. This is scary.

$24.99 Chicago Electric - 1/2'' VARIABLE SPEED REVERSIBLE HAMMER DRILL
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=45338

Everyone needs a drill, and this one is cheap. This _may_ be usable,
if it's better than the Chicago Electric tools I've fondled.


$49.99 Dewalt - 1/4 SHEET HEAVY DUTY PALM GRIP SANDER
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...temnumber=1284

Why a 1/4 sheet over a ROS? A Porter Cable 333 can be had for a few
bucks more and would be far more versatile.


$39.99 Central Pneumatic - 1/4'' AIR SCREWDRIVER
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=45266

What beginner NEEDS an air screwdriver? A standard screwdriver is $3,
and screws can be driven with the cheapo VSR drill you've already
listed. How is this air screwdriver going to be used? Should the
beginner blow in the air hole to get the blade spinning? Or is it
intended as a doorstop until a compressor is obtained?


$6.49 Chicago Electric - GLUE GUN
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=47445

WHY?

$39.99 Chicago Electric - BISCUIT JOINER KIT
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=38648

A good dowelling jig is more accurate than a cheap plate joiner at the
same price.

$39.99 Wagner - POWER PAINTER
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=30760

Now the BS is getting really deep. G

$34.99 Chicago Electric - 7-1/4'' CIRCULAR SAW
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=46866

Not needed if the PSO table saw is dumped in favor of a high-end
circular saw.

You will want to buy better blades for the 2 saws,

Good advice.

Keep in mind, this is not high end
stuff, but then again is is not the bottom of the barrel.

Umm, yes it is... G

You can check
around the HF site, but I would go with the list above. They sell cheaper
models for almost each tool on the list, but these have all been tested by
a professional with more than 40 years experience, yours truly!

Experience at what? Unloading containers from China at Harbor
Freight? How about posting photos of some of your work?

Are you associated in some way with Harbor Freight? It certainly
looks like you are.

IN THE NEXT EPISODE 2: How to use your table saw

I just can't wait, please hurry!

Barry

Looks like spam from harborfreight to me....



"Expert Woodworker" wrote in message
.95...
WORKING TIPS FOR NEW WOODWORKERS - Episode 1

Hi. I am woodworker with over 40 years of professional experience. I am
posting this series of episodes to help new woodworkers with some basics
that most newbies are confused about.

POWER TOOLS: Most new woodworkers are very confused about their first tool
purchases. There is temptation to buy cheap, inferior stuff when you are
new because you don't want to invest that much in an activity that you may
not be very good at. Woodworking, IMHO, does require a natural talent and
you need to spend a fair amount of time woodworking before you would know
if you have this talent. But, if you buy the cheapest tools you can find,
you will probably get discouraged before you go very far.

Then you will have the self-procalimed experts (like some of the regulars
of this newsgroup) who will tell you to start out with only the best. This
is nothing but pure liquid hogwash! There is no reason you need to blow
your life savings on power tools to get started as a woodworker.

Episode 1 - YOUR OWN SHOP FOR UNDER $500:

I have put together a list of medium-caliber power tools that would make a
great first inventory of woodworkers tools. Each of these tools has been
tested and inspected by me. I bought all of the following tools for my
eldest grandson for his Christmas present, so you can see that I am not
suggesting these items out of my butt.

THE LIST:

$119 US General - TABLE SAW (with stand)
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=46987

$79.99 Chicago Electric - 3 HP PLUNGE ROUTER
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=37793

$24.99 Chicago Electric - 1/2'' VARIABLE SPEED REVERSIBLE HAMMER DRILL
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=45338

$49.99 Dewalt - 1/4 SHEET HEAVY DUTY PALM GRIP SANDER
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...temnumber=1284

$39.99 Central Pneumatic - 1/4'' AIR SCREWDRIVER
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=45266

$6.49 Chicago Electric - GLUE GUN
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=47445

$39.99 Chicago Electric - BISCUIT JOINER KIT
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=38648

$39.99 Wagner - POWER PAINTER
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=30760

$34.99 Chicago Electric - 7-1/4'' CIRCULAR SAW
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=46866

You will want to buy better blades for the 2 saws, but that should bring
your grand total to about $500, shipped. Keep in mind, this is not high
end
stuff, but then again is is not the bottom of the barrel. You can check
around the HF site, but I would go with the list above. They sell cheaper
models for almost each tool on the list, but these have all been tested by
a professional with more than 40 years experience, yours truly!

IN THE NEXT EPISODE 2: How to use your table saw

"Me" wrote in news:dmXEb.609477$Fm2.551816@attbi_s04:

Looks like spam from harborfreight to me....



Not at all. I have no afiliation with HF other that my recent order for my
grandson.

Expert Woodworker thus spake:

"Me" wrote in news:dmXEb.609477$Fm2.551816@attbi_s04:

Looks like spam from harborfreight to me....



Not at all. I have no afiliation with HF other that my recent order for my
grandson.

To paraphrase Bill Clinton, 'I feel your pain.' ;-)

On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 12:57:15 GMT, Expert Woodworker
wrote:


Not at all. I have no afiliation with HF other that my recent order for my
grandson.

Do you have a first name? Got any photos of projects you've
completed? I didn't think so.

An nslookup of woodworkpro.net comes up as a non-existent domain:

It's Harbor Freight spam. Advertising is one thing, spam disguised as
"advice" is the lowest form of spam. People and companies who post
this crap demonstrate a complete lack of ethics. What's the matter,
the penis enlargement cream market has gone soft? G

What's that beeping noise? Oh, it's another container being backed
into the dock for you to unload!

Barry

B a r r y B u r k e J r .
wrote in :

On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 12:57:15 GMT, Expert Woodworker
wrote:


Not at all. I have no afiliation with HF other that my recent order
for my grandson.

Do you have a first name?

Gary

Got any photos of projects you've
completed?

Yes, I do. Have you?

I didn't think so.

An nslookup of woodworkpro.net comes up as a non-existent domain:


You comments are digusting, false, and libelous. And your domain is
incorrect.

On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 13:38:42 GMT, Expert Woodworker
wrote:

Yes, I do. Have you?

http://www.bburke.com/wood/images/nightstand-12.jpg

http://www.bburke.com/wood/images/coattree-unfin1.jpg

http://www.bburke.com/wood/images/routertable2.jpg

I'm due for an update, as I've been a bit busy to prep and upload some
from the last 9-12 months.

And your domain is
incorrect.

I know that, but the "reply-to" works. G

Barry

Expert Woodworker wrote:
B a r r y B u r k e J r .
wrote in :
On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 12:57:15 GMT, Expert Woodworker
wrote:
Not at all. I have no afiliation with HF other that my recent order
for my grandson.
Do you have a first name?
Gary
Got any photos of projects you've
completed?
Yes, I do. Have you?
I didn't think so.
An nslookup of woodworkpro.net comes up as a non-existent domain:

Sam Spade shows: "No match for WOODWORKPRO.NET
and running the IP addy shows:
12/20/03 11:09:59 IP block 63.223.5.95
Trying 63.223.5.95 at ARIN
Trying 63.223.5 at ARIN

OrgName: CAIS Internet
OrgID: CAIS
Address: 6861 Elm Street, Third Floor
City: McLean
StateProv: VA
PostalCode: 22101
Country: US

ReferralServer: rwhois://rwhois.cais.net:4321/

You comments are digusting, false, and libelous. And your domain is incorrect.

The comments were skeptical based on your choices, and questioning of
your motives, not disgusting, false, or libelous. What was false was
your e-mail addy. What was disgusting was your rabid attack rather than
a reasoned one. His domain was correct, yours was not. AS yet nothing
libelous has been written. You are correct in pointing out that some HF
tools are worth having, many are not. I still think that your choices
are odd but the reasons have been covered by others. If you don't want
spam, feel free to mung your addy, many of us do, most also show a
usable addy in the sig line. Free exchange is welcome here, insults and
ads aren't.
Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net

"Me" wrote in news:dmXEb.609477$Fm2.551816@attbi_s04:

Looks like spam from harborfreight to me....


If I worked for HF, would I write that their cheaper stuff is crap? I don't
think so.

Newbies: these are the jerks that I tried to warn you about. I am sure that
the overwhelming majority of users here are quality people, but a small
percentage of them are real jerks.

Expert Woodworker wrote:

Newbies: these are the jerks that I tried to warn you about. I am sure that
the overwhelming majority of users here are quality people, but a small
percentage of them are real jerks.

In just about any sampling, a small percentage will be real jerks (don't go
there!). You'll have to admit, the HF-heavy shopping list says a lot. Tom
Someday, it'll all be over....

DY (Tom) wrote in
:

Expert Woodworker wrote:

Newbies: these are the jerks that I tried to warn you about. I am sure
that the overwhelming majority of users here are quality people, but a
small percentage of them are real jerks.

In just about any sampling, a small percentage will be real jerks
(don't go there!). You'll have to admit, the HF-heavy shopping list
says a lot. Tom Someday, it'll all be over....


I admit that much of the stuff the HF sells is crap, but I have tried and
tested each of these specific models and I think they would be appropriate
for beginners. The 2 saws would need better blades, as I pointed out. I
never said that these tools are for pros and advanced amateurs.

On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 13:43:50 GMT, Expert Woodworker
wrote:

Newbies: these are the jerks that I tried to warn you about. I am sure that
the overwhelming majority of users here are quality people, but a small
percentage of them are real jerks.

Any newbie who does a Google group search can tell that I provide help
quite often here, as well as learning a whole bunch myself:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Keep_it_in_the_newsgroup_please%40aol.com +group:rec.woodworking&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&group=rec.woodworking&start=10&sa=N

Yet a search for your posts includes one post, a "helpful" list of
Harbor Freight items:

&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search

Barry

B a r r y B u r k e J r .
wrote in :

On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 13:43:50 GMT, Expert Woodworker
wrote:

Newbies: these are the jerks that I tried to warn you about. I am sure
that the overwhelming majority of users here are quality people, but a
small percentage of them are real jerks.

Any newbie who does a Google group search can tell that I provide help
quite often here, as well as learning a whole bunch myself:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Ke...up_please%40ao
l.com+group:rec.woodworking&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&group=rec.woodw
orking&start=10&sa=N

Yet a search for your posts includes one post, a "helpful" list of
Harbor Freight items:

Stop the two bit detective work. I never claimed to be a long time Usenet
poster. That does not put a dent in my woodworking experience. Like I said,
the specific tools that I endorsed are fine for a beginner. Not an advanced
amateur or a pro. And yes, I agree that a good amount of the HF stuff is
crap, the the stuff I bought for my grandson turned out to be fine.

On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 14:46:58 GMT, Expert Woodworker
wrote:


Stop the two bit detective work. I never claimed to be a long time Usenet
poster. That does not put a dent in my woodworking experience. Like I said,
the specific tools that I endorsed are fine for a beginner.

Certainly! Back to the original questions, and onward with helping
newbies. G I'm seeking clarifications to the following expert
recommendations, as maybe _I_ can learn something.

So, Gary,

Why would you recommend a 1/4 sheet sander over a random orbit sander,
when both can be had for about the same price?

Why would a newbie need _any_ pneumatic tool without a compressor?

Why would a newbie need a pneumatic screwdriver, when a VSR drill is
also on the list?

Why a glue gun? What's your recommendation for glue for this gun?

What advantage does a poor table saw _and_ a cheap circular saw have
over a high quality circular saw and edge guide?

Wouldn't a woodworker need some sort of measuring device and angle
layout tools? What would you recommend?

Thanks in advance,
Barry

You may have tested the particular item, but who's to say that when _I_
buy one, it won't be the same branding, but completely diffferent (and even
junkier) guts? That's how these cheap tool makers work, isn't it? (That's
how cheap PC builders work).

Also, I have some air tools, and use them from time-to-time, but what the
heck is an air screwdriver?

Jim H



"Expert Woodworker" wrote in message
.95...
B a r r y B u r k e J r .
wrote in :

On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 13:43:50 GMT, Expert Woodworker
wrote:

Newbies: these are the jerks that I tried to warn you about. I am sure
that the overwhelming majority of users here are quality people, but a
small percentage of them are real jerks.

Any newbie who does a Google group search can tell that I provide help
quite often here, as well as learning a whole bunch myself:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Ke...up_please%40ao
l.com+group:rec.woodworking&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&group=rec.woodw
orking&start=10&sa=N

Yet a search for your posts includes one post, a "helpful" list of
Harbor Freight items:

Stop the two bit detective work. I never claimed to be a long time Usenet
poster. That does not put a dent in my woodworking experience. Like I
said,
the specific tools that I endorsed are fine for a beginner. Not an
advanced
amateur or a pro. And yes, I agree that a good amount of the HF stuff is
crap, the the stuff I bought for my grandson turned out to be fine.

He guy's ....he ain't so bad - he's got Bay Area Dave nailed down cold....


but a small percentage of them are real jerks.

"Me" wrote in message news:dmXEb.609477$Fm2.551816@attbi_s04...
Looks like spam from harborfreight to me....

"Expert Woodworker" wrote in message

Well, if you read between the line, his email address does say "PRO SPAM"!!!

Hi Expert Woodworker,

Exactly who are all these self-proclaimed experts? Despite the fact that we
have many valued contributors - professionals from every walk of
oodworking - with hundreds, if not thousands, of years of accumulated
experience, I've only seen one guy who proclaims himself to be an expert
woodworker!

As for starting out with the best, the usual advice I see on this group to
newbies is to start out with the best they can afford. Which is good
advice, but quite a different proposition to spending their life-savings.

Please continue your postings. Despite some weaknesses in the charm and
humility stakes, there's a certain amount of horse-sense in your input and
it will be interesting to learn whether you're a sage or a plage, a weezard
or (hastily gets out the garlic and silver bullet) ........a leezard )

Cheers,

Frank



"Expert Woodworker" wrote in message
.95...

snip

Then you will have the self-procalimed experts (like some of the regulars
of this newsgroup) who will tell you to start out with only the best. This
is nothing but pure liquid hogwash! There is no reason you need to blow
your life savings on power tools to get started as a woodworker.

snip

Expert Woodworker wrote:
WORKING TIPS FOR NEW WOODWORKERS - Episode 1

Hi. I am woodworker with over 40 years of professional experience. I am
posting this series of episodes to help new woodworkers with some basics
that most newbies are confused about.

POWER TOOLS: Most new woodworkers are very confused about their first tool
purchases. There is temptation to buy cheap, inferior stuff when you are
new because you don't want to invest that much in an activity that you may
not be very good at. Woodworking, IMHO, does require a natural talent and
you need to spend a fair amount of time woodworking before you would know
if you have this talent. But, if you buy the cheapest tools you can find,
you will probably get discouraged before you go very far.

Then WHY did you do just that below (snipped)

Then you will have the self-procalimed experts (like some of the regulars
of this newsgroup) who will tell you to start out with only the best. This
is nothing but pure liquid hogwash! There is no reason you need to blow
your life savings on power tools to get started as a woodworker.

Episode 1 - YOUR OWN SHOP FOR UNDER $500:

If you spend a little time during the year you could have come up with...


A couple, three hand planes from yard sales/flea market. $20

CS & Rip saw-same source, another $20

Set of Marples 6 for $40

Jig and stone to sharpen chisels and irons $50+/-

A B&D Screwgun $50

That ROS in an above reply $75+/-

A couple of Brushes $????? Been so long since I've had to buy one.

Put the rest into a BETTER TS

Just my $.02 I only have about 15yrs of WW'n, might be my ipnorance
showing Yes the list can be adjusted in any number of ways. but you can
get better tools and a better experience.

He would be FAR better served by the above list than the junk you bought
him. If he knows how to do it by hand, and how to sharpen that is more
important. It also makes many quiet hours of instruction/quality time.

Here's where I get flamed, but anything that has a blade and spins, I
won't buy from HF, ESSSSPECIALLY for my grandson.

Kevin










IN THE NEXT EPISODE 2: How to use your table saw

hey gang,

My advice is this. If woodworking looks like it may appeal to you do what I
did. Start off with a good circular saw (PC) and an 18 volt cordless drill
(DeWalt) and possibly a router if needed. I chose a DeWalt combo kit. Then buy
a plan or download one of the many freebies on the web, for a simple project -
say a picnic table or bookcase or garden bench.

If you have fun or have a knack you didn't know you possesed, get another plan.
As your experience grows you'll get the tools you need when you need them. Use
the wreck for advice when contemplating new tool purchases.

If you find you don't like to work with wood - impatient, confusing, whatever,
you'll at least have a good circular saw and portable drill which will always
be used for something around the house.

I've only been at this for about a year and have yet to get the high-end tools
like a quality table saw (I use my circ saw w/clamp guide or a router) So,
start with what you need first is my advice. Besides, you'll be amazed at the
accumulated expense of all the little things you'll need as you progress such
as nails, screws (different sizes, different uses), levels, squares, various
hand tools, hardware, finishes, stains, brushes, molding, blades, nail sets,
drill bits, counter sinks, lumber (my first 3 projects involved making things
only with 2x material), sandpaper, etc, etc.

Just start small and grow with your abilities.
-Jami

Expert Woodworker proclaims:


Then you will have the self-procalimed experts (like some of the regulars
of this newsgroup) who will tell you to start out with only the best. This
is nothing but pure liquid hogwash! There is no reason you need to blow
your life savings on power tools to get started as a woodworker.

And who proclaimed YOU an expert?

THE LIST:

$119 US General - TABLE SAW (with stand)
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=46987

$79.99 Chicago Electric - 3 HP PLUNGE ROUTER
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=37793

$24.99 Chicago Electric - 1/2'' VARIABLE SPEED REVERSIBLE HAMMER DRILL
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=45338

$49.99 Dewalt - 1/4 SHEET HEAVY DUTY PALM GRIP SANDER
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...temnumber=1284

$39.99 Central Pneumatic - 1/4'' AIR SCREWDRIVER
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=45266

$6.49 Chicago Electric - GLUE GUN
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=47445

$39.99 Chicago Electric - BISCUIT JOINER KIT
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=38648

$39.99 Wagner - POWER PAINTER
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=30760

$34.99 Chicago Electric - 7-1/4'' CIRCULAR SAW
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=46866

88% BS. Some of the tools may be (and note the may) fine, but what the hell do
you want with Power Painter? For that matter, who needs an air screwdriver when
there is no compressor on the list. Why a glue gun when yellow glue is so
cheap: replace that with a clamp, and several more for the air screwdriver.

Where are the measuring tools?

Where are the layout tools?

Keep in mind, this is not high end
stuff, but then again is is not the bottom of the barrel. You can check
around the HF site, but I would go with the list above.

Check around one helluva lot more than the HF site. This stuff may not be
bottom of the barrel, but that's only because barrel bottoms have recently been
redefined to be lower than whale ****.

They sell cheaper
models for almost each tool on the list, but these have all been tested by
a professional with more than 40 years experience, yours truly!

Resume, please.

Charlie Self

"Man is a reasoning rather than a reasonable animal."
Alexander Hamilton

http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/m.../business.html

Charlie Self wrote:

models for almost each tool on the list, but these have all been tested by
a professional with more than 40 years experience, yours truly!

Resume, please.

He's not telling the truth, I guaran-damn-tee. Spamming has only been
around for a little over 10 years now, so there's no way he has over 40
years of experience in his profession.

Just so newbies don't get sucked in by the spam, here are some real thoughts
on that subject from a bona fide low budget woodworker...

A complete wood shop for under $500?

No, I can't do it. I sat down to do a bit of figuring, and the best
reasonably complete shop I could come up with was $750. That was a small
table saw, a good corded hand drill, a workbench, vises, sharpening gear,
chisels, two inexpensive used hand planes, rulers/gauges/squares, clamps,
basic drill bits, basic hammer/screwdriver/utility knife, economy backsaw,
flush cut saw, cheap circular saw, and a couple of decent Freud blades for
the power saws.

It notably did not include a router, router table, router bits, sander,
drill press, bandsaw or even a shop vac, so it wasn't even as complete as
my own little shop.

It's nuts to think you have to start with all of that though. I started
with a backsaw, a miter box, a cheap jigsaw, a cheap combination square, a
hammer, a Craftman screwdriver set and an electric drill. Most of these
were wedding gifts. The only tools I remember going out to purchase were
the backsaw/miter box kit and a cheap set of B&D countersink bits.

Among other things, the plant stand and house shaped curio box on my web
site were fashioned with nothing more than those simple tools. Fashioned
in my *kitchen* I might add. So was my tool cabinet. I still have and use
all of these things to this day.

When starting out, one trick is to buy as much as you can pre-cut to size.
Avoid complex joinery and complex clamping by using screws and nails.
Exploit every source of free, salvage wood from pallets to trash piles.
Don't let all these folks on here with $15,000 tool collections and 1,000
sq. ft. shops fool you into thinking it takes a fortune to wreck some wood.
They most likely didn't start out with all of that either, and they most
likely didn't get all of that in one shot.

Begin at the beginning. Don't even try to buy a shop in a box. Buy tools
as you appreciate the need for them. That way you get things you will use,
instead of things somebody on the internet told you you'd need.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

While I can't totally agree with the list of tools it's close enough and the
differences would just amount to personal preferences.

All in all though, I would say that that (Silvan;s) post truly contained
truly expert advice.

--
Mike G.

Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
"Silvan" wrote in message
...
Charlie Self wrote:

models for almost each tool on the list, but these have all been tested
by
a professional with more than 40 years experience, yours truly!

Resume, please.

He's not telling the truth, I guaran-damn-tee. Spamming has only been
around for a little over 10 years now, so there's no way he has over 40
years of experience in his profession.

Just so newbies don't get sucked in by the spam, here are some real
thoughts
on that subject from a bona fide low budget woodworker...

A complete wood shop for under $500?

No, I can't do it. I sat down to do a bit of figuring, and the best
reasonably complete shop I could come up with was $750. That was a small
table saw, a good corded hand drill, a workbench, vises, sharpening gear,
chisels, two inexpensive used hand planes, rulers/gauges/squares, clamps,
basic drill bits, basic hammer/screwdriver/utility knife, economy backsaw,
flush cut saw, cheap circular saw, and a couple of decent Freud blades for
the power saws.

It notably did not include a router, router table, router bits, sander,
drill press, bandsaw or even a shop vac, so it wasn't even as complete as
my own little shop.

It's nuts to think you have to start with all of that though. I started
with a backsaw, a miter box, a cheap jigsaw, a cheap combination square, a
hammer, a Craftman screwdriver set and an electric drill. Most of these
were wedding gifts. The only tools I remember going out to purchase were
the backsaw/miter box kit and a cheap set of B&D countersink bits.

Among other things, the plant stand and house shaped curio box on my web
site were fashioned with nothing more than those simple tools. Fashioned
in my *kitchen* I might add. So was my tool cabinet. I still have and
use
all of these things to this day.

When starting out, one trick is to buy as much as you can pre-cut to size.
Avoid complex joinery and complex clamping by using screws and nails.
Exploit every source of free, salvage wood from pallets to trash piles.
Don't let all these folks on here with $15,000 tool collections and 1,000
sq. ft. shops fool you into thinking it takes a fortune to wreck some
wood.
They most likely didn't start out with all of that either, and they most
likely didn't get all of that in one shot.

Begin at the beginning. Don't even try to buy a shop in a box. Buy tools
as you appreciate the need for them. That way you get things you will
use,
instead of things somebody on the internet told you you'd need.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 16:16:46 -0500, Silvan
wrote:

A complete wood shop for under $500?

I'll do you one for $100. Go read Mike Abbott's "Green Woodworking"
and you can tool up to make chairs with little more than an axe, a
turning chisel and a couple of drawknives.

Of course, you'll be entirely stumped trying to make a birdbox out of
two scraps of plywood, but specialisation is the cost of the low
entry-cost approach.

There's also an excellent book by the Intermediate Technology people
on how to teach woodworking in Africa, by teaching your class to make
their own hand tools from wood and truck leafsprings.
--
Smert' spamionam

In article , Andy Dingley
wrote:

There's also an excellent book by the Intermediate Technology people
on how to teach woodworking in Africa, by teaching your class to make
their own hand tools from wood and truck leafsprings.


Do you have a title for that one, Andy? Sounds interesting.

djb

--
There are no socks in my email address.

"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati"

"Silvan" wrote in message
...
It's nuts to think you have to start with all of that though. I started
with a backsaw, a miter box, a cheap jigsaw, a cheap combination square, a
hammer, a Craftman screwdriver set and an electric drill. Most of these
were wedding gifts. The only tools I remember going out to purchase were
the backsaw/miter box kit and a cheap set of B&D countersink bits.

I normally just lurk, but I have just got to know. How did you end up with
tools for wedding gifts. All I got was a bunch of fancy plates that I ain't
allowed to eat off of. I tried to register at Grizzly, but SWMBO shot that
idea down. In fact she shot that down before she was even in office yet. The
only good thing about them plates is that I had to build a cabinet to put
them in. So of course I had to get some more clamps and some other tools.

But to try to steer things back to the topic. I got most of my equipment
in the process of building projects. I now have a fairly complete shop, just
by convincing SWMBO that she needed something that I didn't have the correct
tool to make.

Just this last month, she wanted some Christmas ornaments, so I
convinced her my 16" craftsman scroll saw wasn't up to the task. So I got
the new 20" Dewalt. Then my stepmother called me. She makes hand woven
baskets and she was complaining about the quality of the various wooden
parts she buys to use on her baskets. So I had to go out and buy a bandsaw
to resaw the rough oak I have into blanks for basket handles. Then of course
I had to build a steamer so I could bend the handles.
Then I had to build forms to stick the steamed wood in.

You know, I thought I was a fairly intelligent person. I work in
manufacturing, and have been able to handle anything that has come in the
door. So I just assumed that I could steam wood with no trouble. Boy was I
wrong. I didn't consider all the factors involved. Between the wood type,
grain direction, grain shape, and moisture content it's really a PITA. She
wanted oak handles, and I have a large supply of rough sawn 2x8 oak.
Unfortunately it's about 30 years old and really dry. The first time I tried
bending the handles, 90 percent of them cracked either while bending them,
or while they were drying.
Oops, I really wandered off topic. if you're interested in the trials
and tribulation of learning to bend wood with no help. let me know and I'll
start a new thread. Although I like to think of myself as and expert, I am
still wise enough to know I'm not really that smart, just to stupid to give
up.

hammer, a Craftman screwdriver set and an electric drill. Most of these
were wedding gifts. The only tools I remember going out to purchase
were
the backsaw/miter box kit and a cheap set of B&D countersink bits.

I normally just lurk, but I have just got to know. How did you end up with
tools for wedding gifts.

I think that was a very stealthful drive-by gloat :-)

Good catch.

Stephen M wrote:

I think that was a very stealthful drive-by gloat :-)

Good catch.

Why so it was, I suppose. It was a long time ago. I know 10 years is
nothing to many here, but there's a big difference between 22 and 32.

A lot has changed in 10 years. Mostly, I appreciate Renee a lot more now
than I did then. I sure never planned the way any of that happened, but I
can't imagine what I'd be doing with my life right now if it hadn't.

I'll be sure to tell her that come next January... January... 10th? 20th?
Oh hell. LOL!

Oh, and BTW, a real gloat... SWMBO says to me "Honey, I've been thinking
about buying you a scroll saw."

That wasn't on my list, or even on my mind, really. That came from left
field. It probably means she wants me to make her something with it, but
I'll be glad to. It's sitting in the dining room right now with a big bow
on it. Delta 16" VS, probably not top of the line, but I asked about it a
bit back and it seems this will be a nice little critter to have around the
shop. She paid for it with her money, and she earns a lot less than I do,
so that took some doing.

Yeah, I'd say that's a gloat.

(And all I got her were some stupid clothes and some stupid little pieces of
rock and metal with no power cords and no moving parts... How boring!)

Having a wife who puts up with me is a gloat too. I'm not easy to live
with, and we both know it. She loves me pretty much unconditionally. I'll
never understand it, but it sure is nice.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

Robert Smith wrote:

I normally just lurk, but I have just got to know. How did you end up with
tools for wedding gifts. All I got was a bunch of fancy plates that I

I got most of the stuff from Dad as part of a "setting up housekeeping" type
package. A drill, hammer, screwdrivers, drill bits, screwdriver bits...
Pretty practical you're a man now stuff. Maybe I got some of it that first
Christmas.

ain't allowed to eat off of. I tried to register at Grizzly, but SWMBO

We got a lot of stuff like that too. I was a foreign language major in my
last semester when I rather abruptly got to learn about EPT, Lamaze, and
trying to support a family on a minimum wage work study job... I got some
very useful towels, the last of which I just consigned to rag detail
recently. Everything else was fancy Euroweird stuff. Linen napkins, fine
china, exotic handmade lace thingies, crystal.

I eat with my elbows on the table, always eat with the longest fork and the
biggest spoon I can find, and I still haven't figured out what I'm supposed
to do with the exotic handmade lace thingies. I think the exotic china and
crystal are in the cabinet over the fridge. I haven't opened it since we
moved into this house six years ago.

We don't have a lot of company, and the company we do have doesn't know what
to do with the exotic handmade lace thingies either.

I've found the crystal is pretty solid. It doesn't tip over easily, so they
make *great* containers for holding brush dipping water for doing
watercolors. Wickford? Weckford? Wedgewood? Good for cracking nuts into
too.

shot that idea down. In fact she shot that down before she was even in
office yet. The only good thing about them plates is that I had to build a
cabinet to put them in. So of course I had to get some more clamps and
some other tools.

Me too. Not *those* plates, but some other ones. The *good* stuff is
buried in dust somewhere. The not-so-good stuff got me the router table I
think, and a bunch of pipe clamps for sure. I built a hutch to mount onto
a dresser so we could display those plates. They have since been relegated
to some other forgotten corner to make way for SWMBO's Barbie collection.

All in all, we probably have four or five sets of plates, and we eat off the
stuff my wife got in college.

in the process of building projects. I now have a fairly complete shop,
just by convincing SWMBO that she needed something that I didn't have the
correct tool to make.

Me too. I've also used other tactics. As a recent example, I wanted to get
into hand planes. SWMBO balked at the price of all the stuff I needed to
buy to get started, so I took her out to Lowe's and showed her how much it
costs to buy a cheap benchtop planer and jointer. That shut her up real
quick like.

door. So I just assumed that I could steam wood with no trouble. Boy was I
wrong. I didn't consider all the factors involved. Between the wood type,

I can imagine. I haven't tried anything that large-scale or purposeful, but
I've played with bending popsicle sticks for some reason or other. It's a
real PITA just bending one of those little things without breaking it.
Wood bending people are half mad I think.

Oops, I really wandered off topic. if you're interested in the trials
and tribulation of learning to bend wood with no help. let me know and
I'll start a new thread. Although I like to think of myself as and expert,
I am still wise enough to know I'm not really that smart, just to stupid
to give up.

Go for it! SWMBO does the craft show thing, and she uses a lot of Chiwanese
baskets. I've been thinking for years I could make something better.
Maybe you can talk me out of even thinking about trying, or talk me into a
new tool. Whichever.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

Silvan writes:

SWMBO does the craft show thing, and she uses a lot of Chiwanese
baskets. I've been thinking for years I could make something better.
Maybe you can talk me out of even thinking about trying, or talk me into a
new tool. Whichever.

Just use willow. No new tools needed. How's that for disappointment.

Charlie Self

"Man is a reasoning rather than a reasonable animal."
Alexander Hamilton

http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/m.../business.html

Well I have 48 years professional experience and that is the sorriest list
of tools
I have ever seen in one list.

As they are bargains they are only good for a 6 thumbed non mechanical
person that attempts to make a home repair and then finnally admits he is
not mechanically inclined and hires someone competent to get the chore taken
care of
And then set it in the corner or use it as a boat anchor.

Most of these tools are only good in the hands of someone that is skilled
and knows how to get the best out of the worst.

The only truth in this post is that you do not have to use you life savings
to get decent equipment but this is a waste of money and will deter some
from not become a woodworker.

Can't wait for the next episode on use of table
What are you going to tell them --not to touch that whirly thingy going
around in circle @ 80 miles and hour
HMMMMMMMM

Well I have seen experts and I have seen experts this is truly one of them.

These self proclaimed experts amaze me.

By the way to all you skilled Hobbiests there are more inept
unknowledable people in proffesional shops than there are of you guys in
your home shops happily whittling away.

Nuff said, stay here newbies some info
you get here will be good and some great and some bad and some not worth a
****
Guess where this post ranks



"Expert Woodworker" wrote in message
.95...
WORKING TIPS FOR NEW WOODWORKERS - Episode 1

Hi. I am woodworker with over 40 years of professional experience. I am
posting this series of episodes to help new woodworkers with some basics
that most newbies are confused about.

POWER TOOLS: Most new woodworkers are very confused about their first tool
purchases. There is temptation to buy cheap, inferior stuff when you are
new because you don't want to invest that much in an activity that you may
not be very good at. Woodworking, IMHO, does require a natural talent and
you need to spend a fair amount of time woodworking before you would know
if you have this talent. But, if you buy the cheapest tools you can find,
you will probably get discouraged before you go very far.

Then you will have the self-procalimed experts (like some of the regulars
of this newsgroup) who will tell you to start out with only the best. This
is nothing but pure liquid hogwash! There is no reason you need to blow
your life savings on power tools to get started as a woodworker.

Episode 1 - YOUR OWN SHOP FOR UNDER $500:

I have put together a list of medium-caliber power tools that would make a
great first inventory of woodworkers tools. Each of these tools has been
tested and inspected by me. I bought all of the following tools for my
eldest grandson for his Christmas present, so you can see that I am not
suggesting these items out of my butt.

THE LIST:

$119 US General - TABLE SAW (with stand)
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=46987

$79.99 Chicago Electric - 3 HP PLUNGE ROUTER
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=37793

$24.99 Chicago Electric - 1/2'' VARIABLE SPEED REVERSIBLE HAMMER DRILL
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=45338

$49.99 Dewalt - 1/4 SHEET HEAVY DUTY PALM GRIP SANDER
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...temnumber=1284

$39.99 Central Pneumatic - 1/4'' AIR SCREWDRIVER
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=45266

$6.49 Chicago Electric - GLUE GUN
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=47445

$39.99 Chicago Electric - BISCUIT JOINER KIT
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=38648

$39.99 Wagner - POWER PAINTER
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=30760

$34.99 Chicago Electric - 7-1/4'' CIRCULAR SAW
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=46866

You will want to buy better blades for the 2 saws, but that should bring
your grand total to about $500, shipped. Keep in mind, this is not high
end
stuff, but then again is is not the bottom of the barrel. You can check
around the HF site, but I would go with the list above. They sell cheaper
models for almost each tool on the list, but these have all been tested by
a professional with more than 40 years experience, yours truly!

IN THE NEXT EPISODE 2: How to use your table saw

God I hope I haven't been suckered into replying to troll/spam.

But for a beginner woodworker, I can't imagine why on earth you'd
recommend their first tools include a 1/2" hammer drill, a glue gun,
and a paint gun.

In the spirit of the holiday season,

I think it's great that you are able to give your grandson some tools that
will hopefully, foster a desire for him to follow in your footsteps. For
whatever reason you selected those particular tools - it's your gift to him
and I hope you follow-up and show him how to properly use them. Forty years
of experience - that would be the real gift.

Bob S.

"Bob S." wrote in
:

In the spirit of the holiday season,

I think it's great that you are able to give your grandson some tools
that will hopefully, foster a desire for him to follow in your
footsteps. For whatever reason you selected those particular tools -
it's your gift to him and I hope you follow-up and show him how to
properly use them. Forty years of experience - that would be the real
gift.

Bob S.




Thank you, Bob. Like I said, the majority of the users here are good
people. It is about time that one of them decided to reply.

I offered to buy him a high end circular saw and a few other expensive
pieces. Actually, he picked out the HF stuff by himself. I originally
thought it was a bad idea, but I went along with it and put the order on my
card. Once the stuff arrived I was truly impressed at the relatively
acceptable performance. I make no account of other products from this
vendor. I have also seen a fair amount of crap from them.

(Tom Bergman) wrote in
om:

God I hope I haven't been suckered into replying to troll/spam.

But for a beginner woodworker, I can't imagine why on earth you'd
recommend their first tools include a 1/2" hammer drill, a glue gun,
and a paint gun.



Would a spammer admit that many of the products sold by the company in
question are garbage? Probably not. I found the SPECIFIC items on the list
to be adequate for a BEGINNER. Why are you so harsh?

Expert Woodworker wrote in message . 5.95...
(Tom Bergman) wrote in
om:

God I hope I haven't been suckered into replying to troll/spam.

But for a beginner woodworker, I can't imagine why on earth you'd
recommend their first tools include a 1/2" hammer drill, a glue gun,
and a paint gun.



Would a spammer admit that many of the products sold by the company in
question are garbage? Probably not. I found the SPECIFIC items on the list
to be adequate for a BEGINNER. Why are you so harsh?

When you continue to dodge and ignore the questions posed to you, and
in fact, get OFFENDED that someone dare question the "expert
woodworker", what do you expect? Answer the legitimate questions
posed.

Not a harsh word in there. Why don't you answer the question about
why a 1/2" hammer drill, a glue gun, and a paint gun would good
starter tools for a beginner? I'm a long way from a beginner (or just
beginning - depends on who in the wreck I'm compared to) and I see
little or no use for those three specific tools.

What do you propose be made here - a spray painted craft wreath with
glued on fake fruit, Hilti bolted to the sidewalk?

Ok, the 1/2" hammer drill can drill plain old holes in wood too, but a
standard corded or cordless 3/8" is a lot more appropriate for that.

wouldn't things like chisels, layout tools, scrapers, planes, a good
paint (well, one for varnish or shellac) brush make just a wee bit
more sense for a beginning woodworker?

Face it, you gave bad advice.

And that's just a wee bit harsh.


Would a spammer admit that many of the products sold by the company in
question are garbage? Probably not. I found the SPECIFIC items on the list
to be adequate for a BEGINNER. Why are you so harsh?