Well, I DVRed the inaugural offering of The New Yankee Workshop on DIY
this morning (Jigs, Part One) and just finished watching it. I think
I'm going to be sick.

Most of you know that I've put a fair amount of time into chronicling
the tools Norm has used in 19 years of TNYW. That has entailed
watching (and timing) a lot of TNYW episodes (243, so far). I didn't
start video taping episodes until around 1999--ten years into the
show--so I had to rely on HGTV rebroadcasts for all of the early
years.

As I viewed all of the episodes I learned that while the original PBS
content totalled 24 minutes and 18 seconds (I'm not sure why the odd
number, but it's been consistent over roughly eight years of actual
PBS content that I have), HGTV edited their airings down to 21 minutes
and 45 seconds--also consistent over twelve years worth of
programming, or 156 episodes (all that HGTV ever aired). I had an
overlap of a few episodes in the late '90s for which I had both PBS
and HGTV versions and it was interesting to see what they cut out--it
wasn't a lot, mostly setups and an occasional orientation shot--but
generally not a lot of meat. Of course I can't really say how much had
been cut from the earlier years because I had no comparison
recordings.

This morning marked the return of supplemental (to PBS) airings of
TNYW since HGTV ended their contract several years ago. I eagerly
anticipated it, since I've been transferring all of my VHS recordings
over to DVD. Although the VCR tapes were done from fresh, SP
recordings of either original PBS broadcasts or HGTV broadcasts of the
earlier years, I had to re-record them in EP in order to get all 13
episodes of a season onto a single two hour tape. Consequently,
there's a lot of noise (and jitter, due to different VCR machines
involved) on my archive tapes. I was hoping to be able to get pristine
transfers from my DVR to the DVDs with the new DIY offering. Here's
what happened:

The DIY version (at least for this first program) totalled 19 minutes
and 43 seconds of content. That's 4½ minutes out of the original 24+
minutes. I don't think it possible to find enough non-critical
material to take out of a 24½ program to get to where DIY apprently
feels they need to be, but I thought I'd at least check against the
PBS version I have. So I pulled out my archive and watched. Quelle
horror! Sure, there were a couple of minor cuts that I noticed at
first, but after building the panel cutter, panel raising jig, and
circle cutting jig, they stopped. They cut out one of the items
entirely--the finger boards. I was shocked enough when I looked at my
stopwatch on the first viewing and saw 19:43, but as I viewed the
original and found one fourth of the projects missing I was simply
stunned.

I think I'm going to be sick. I know I said that already. I don't
think I can say it too much. If that's the standard to which DIY is
going to air TNYW episodes, I'll recommend you not bother to watch. In
order to make that number, there will simply have to be significant
content excised which will render the program virtually useless. And
I'm stuck with putting my noisy, jittery, EP recordings onto DVD. Or,
I can buy 200+ episodes from TNYW at $15 a pop...probably not.

What a disappointment.

--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997

email addy de-spam-ified due to 1,000 spams per month.
If you can't figure out how to use it, I probably wouldn't
care to correspond with you anyway.

"LRod" wrote in message
...


SNEEEEEEEP

What a disappointment.


Perhaps the latest in a very long line of DIY disappointments. I guess the
audience that they attract and actually keep has a shorter attention span
than the average viewer.

WoodWorks was the only program that I would and or did watch on the DIY
channel. I wonder if WoodWorks was originally a 1 hour show? ;~)

On Sat, 17 Mar 2007 23:21:18 +0000, LRod wrote:

.... snip

The DIY version (at least for this first program) totalled 19 minutes
and 43 seconds of content. That's 4½ minutes out of the original 24+
minutes.
.... snip

Wow, that means that one is essentially spending *more* than one out of
every three minutes watching commercials.




+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

On Sat, 17 Mar 2007 21:56:09 -0700, Mark & Juanita
wrote:

Wow, that means that one is essentially spending *more* than one out of
every three minutes watching commercials.

Some of us have TiVO. G

On Mar 18, 5:36 am, B A R R Y wrote:
On Sat, 17 Mar 2007 21:56:09 -0700, Mark & Juanita

wrote:

Wow, that means that one is essentially spending *more* than one out of
every three minutes watching commercials.

Thats why I gave up watching Saturday Night Live 20 years ago.
I started taping it and found 51% was commercials. I wish I could get
full pay for 49% of my work time.
Lou

On 18 Mar 2007 06:25:22 -0700, "Lou" wrote:

On Mar 18, 5:36 am, B A R R Y wrote:
On Sat, 17 Mar 2007 21:56:09 -0700, Mark & Juanita

wrote:

Wow, that means that one is essentially spending *more* than one out of
every three minutes watching commercials.

Thats why I gave up watching Saturday Night Live 20 years ago.
I started taping it and found 51% was commercials.

C'mon.

I don't believe there's ever been a program anywhere on any channel
(infomercials don't count) that's aired more than 1:5 commercial to
content. That's 20%.

--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997

email addy de-spam-ified due to 1,000 spams per month.
If you can't figure out how to use it, I probably wouldn't
care to correspond with you anyway.

Thats why I gave up watching Saturday Night Live 20 years ago.
I started taping it and found 51% was commercials.

I gave up watching Saturday Night Live when it stopped being funny.

Lee

--
To e-mail, replace "bucketofspam" with "dleegordon"

_________________________________
Lee Gordon
http://www.leegordonproductions.com

"LRod" wrote in message

I don't believe there's ever been a program anywhere on any channel
(infomercials don't count) that's aired more than 1:5 commercial to
content. That's 20%.

It's actuallly closer to 30% today ... from answers.com:

quote

Advertisements take airtime away from programs. In the 1960s a typical
hour-long American show would run for 51 minutes excluding advertisements.
Today, a similar program would only be 42 minutes long; a typical 30-minute
block of time includes 22 minutes of programming with 6 minutes of national
advertising and 2 minutes of local (although some half-hour blocks may have
as much as 12 minutes of advertisements).

In other words, over the course of 10 hours, American viewers will see
approximately 3 hours of advertisements, twice what they would have seen in
the sixties. Furthermore, if that sixties show is rerun today it may be cut
by 9 minutes to make room for the extra advertisements. (Some modern
showings of Star Trek, for example)

Back in the 1950s and 1960s, the average length of a television
advertisement was one minute. As the years passed, the average length shrank
to 30 seconds (and often 10 seconds, depending on the television station's
purchase of ad time). However, today a majority of advertisements run in
15-second increments (often known as "hooks").

/quote

When you feel like you're being screwed, you probably are ...

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 2/20/07

On Mar 17, 7:21 pm, LRod wrote:
Well, I DVRed the inaugural offering of The New Yankee Workshop on DIY
this morning (Jigs, Part One) and just finished watching it. I think
I'm going to be sick.

Most of you know that I've put a fair amount of time into chronicling
the tools Norm has used in 19 years of TNYW. That has entailed
watching (and timing) a lot of TNYW episodes (243, so far). I didn't
start video taping episodes until around 1999--ten years into the
show--so I had to rely on HGTV rebroadcasts for all of the early
years.

As I viewed all of the episodes I learned that while the original PBS
content totalled 24 minutes and 18 seconds (I'm not sure why the odd
number, but it's been consistent over roughly eight years of actual
PBS content that I have), HGTV edited their airings down to 21 minutes
and 45 seconds--also consistent over twelve years worth of
programming, or 156 episodes (all that HGTV ever aired). I had an
overlap of a few episodes in the late '90s for which I had both PBS
and HGTV versions and it was interesting to see what they cut out--it
wasn't a lot, mostly setups and an occasional orientation shot--but
generally not a lot of meat. Of course I can't really say how much had
been cut from the earlier years because I had no comparison
recordings.

This morning marked the return of supplemental (to PBS) airings of
TNYW since HGTV ended their contract several years ago. I eagerly
anticipated it, since I've been transferring all of my VHS recordings
over to DVD. Although the VCR tapes were done from fresh, SP
recordings of either original PBS broadcasts or HGTV broadcasts of the
earlier years, I had to re-record them in EP in order to get all 13
episodes of a season onto a single two hour tape. Consequently,
there's a lot of noise (and jitter, due to different VCR machines
involved) on my archive tapes. I was hoping to be able to get pristine
transfers from my DVR to the DVDs with the new DIY offering. Here's
what happened:

The DIY version (at least for this first program) totalled 19 minutes
and 43 seconds of content. That's 4½ minutes out of the original 24+
minutes. I don't think it possible to find enough non-critical
material to take out of a 24½ program to get to where DIY apprently
feels they need to be, but I thought I'd at least check against the
PBS version I have. So I pulled out my archive and watched. Quelle
horror! Sure, there were a couple of minor cuts that I noticed at
first, but after building the panel cutter, panel raising jig, and
circle cutting jig, they stopped. They cut out one of the items
entirely--the finger boards. I was shocked enough when I looked at my
stopwatch on the first viewing and saw 19:43, but as I viewed the
original and found one fourth of the projects missing I was simply
stunned.

I think I'm going to be sick. I know I said that already. I don't
think I can say it too much. If that's the standard to which DIY is
going to air TNYW episodes, I'll recommend you not bother to watch. In
order to make that number, there will simply have to be significant
content excised which will render the program virtually useless. And
I'm stuck with putting my noisy, jittery, EP recordings onto DVD. Or,
I can buy 200+ episodes from TNYW at $15 a pop...probably not.

What a disappointment.

--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997

email addy de-spam-ified due to 1,000 spams per month.
If you can't figure out how to use it, I probably wouldn't
care to correspond with you anyway.

LRod,
Our TV system operates supposedly free to the watchers, ergo we pay
indirectly when we purchase the advertised products. In Europe the
viewer is directly taxed for his TV viewing.on some periodic basis.
Shortening the the useful portion of a program and lenthening its
commercial portion is the same as raising its cost. A good
comparrison is keeping the price of a Hershey bar fixed but lowering
its weight.

I have noticed the lessening of content matter at the expense of
commercials for some time now and as a result watch less TV. I assume
I'm not the only one, witness the growth of Netflix et al.

TNYW, TOH & Ask TOH are creations of Russel Morash who is entitled to
sell his productions to the highest bidder. There is a tipping point
however at which watchers will turn away ( they perceive their time
is being squandered). By the tone of your posting I gather you are
near this point.

As to the DIY network, IMHO its a few worthwile programs surrounded by
a sea of mediocraties. There are a few hosts on that network who could
easily be sent to fetch a pail of steam.

Remember fellow woodworkers, "There is no free lunch". If you would
watch Norm for free don't expect a 100% rendition.

Joe G

On Mar 17, 5:21 pm, LRod wrote:

SNIP

The DIY version (at least for this first program) totalled 19 minutes
and 43 seconds of content. That's 4½ minutes out of the original 24+
minutes. I don't think it possible to find enough non-critical
material to take out of a 24½ program to get to where DIY apprently
feels they need to be, but I thought I'd at least check against the
PBS version I have. So I pulled out my archive and watched. Quelle
horror! Sure, there were a couple of minor cuts that I noticed at
first, but after building the panel cutter, panel raising jig, and
circle cutting jig, they stopped. They cut out one of the items
entirely--the finger boards. I was shocked enough when I looked at my
stopwatch on the first viewing and saw 19:43, but as I viewed the
original and found one fourth of the projects missing I was simply
stunned.

I think I'm going to be sick. I know I said that already. I don't
think I can say it too much. If that's the standard to which DIY is
going to air TNYW episodes, I'll recommend you not bother to watch. In
order to make that number, there will simply have to be significant
content excised which will render the program virtually useless. And
I'm stuck with putting my noisy, jittery, EP recordings onto DVD. Or,
I can buy 200+ episodes from TNYW at $15 a pop...probably not.

What a disappointment.

--
LRod

It isn't just NYW. I am a documentary junkie.. if it is loaded with
facts, I will watch it. I do not have cable telelvision, only
broadcast TV. I can get about 7-8 English speaking channels of crap
for nothing, so I never saw the need to leap to 100 channels of crap
for $50 a month.

So imagine my surprise when watching Discovery channel at a buddy of
mine's house and seeing certain documentaries that have already aired
on PBS. "New" to the Discovery channel, it is simply re-edited
material from PBS. Closer attention to the end credits on some
documetaries from other stations have revealed the same thing.

The documentary on the building of the Brooklyn Bridge was cut from 52
minutes to about 40. The original "Search for the Bismarck" - same
thing. Digging around on the net revealed this is actually a common
practice that has been going on for some time. It may already be to
the point with some that the original documentary makers wouldn't
recognize their own product.

Some of the documentaries I have been watching over the years are
actually property of PBS of other nations and professional doc makers
like National Geographic, and they have been edited for length,
content and dubbed in English for presentation here.

I think the thing that would particulary annoy me about editing an
instructional piece would be in my mind's eye seeing Norm (while
working on a Duncan Phyfe repro) say "let's go over to the assembly
table and get started. We'll need clamps, glue, and our brad nailer".

They cut to commercial. I learn all about feeling springtime fresh
throughout the day (even in that "special time"), I see that most beer
drinkers are either spoiled 30 somethings or real knuckleheads, or
find out what's on sale at Sonic or Empire Carpets.

Back to the show. Norm is finishing (when did he assemble?) and after
thirty seconds of that, he is dusting his piece (watch it...) and
proclaiming all would be proud of it, then giving instructions on how
to order a measured piece with drawings. Cue music, then a preview of
the next 15 minute show.

Nasty. Just nasty. Another reason to stay away from TV.

Robert

On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 10:23:37 -0600, Swingman wrote:
"LRod" wrote in message

I don't believe there's ever been a program anywhere on any channel
(infomercials don't count) that's aired more than 1:5 commercial to
content. That's 20%.

It's actuallly closer to 30% today ... [references snipped]

Which is pathetic, because they have more viewership and lower
production costs per viewer than ever. They're just pocketing the
extra.

Of course, this is all made possible by people who are still willing
to watch. So if you don't like it, do what I do--TURN IT OFF!


--
Steve Hall [ digitect dancingpaper com ]

I also have an extensive NYW video collection, captured into MPEG
files, and noticed the same thing you did. IIRC, there's about a 5
second shot they cut where he plugged in his dust collector and the
missing fingerboards you noticed. They snip the preview of next
episode's project and add some music and a logo as they go into and
come out of each commercial.

When my PBS copy is good I'll stick with that, but I do have some
marginal HGTV episodes and will decide on a case-by-case basis if they
are worthy of replacement, or perhaps I should edit in the missing
pieces from the poor recording into the DIY capture.

Mike Brown

http://www.ccsi.com/~mbrown/Woodwork...op_videos.html

On Mar 17, 6:21 pm, LRod wrote:
Well, I DVRed the inaugural offering of The New Yankee Workshop on DIY
this morning (Jigs, Part One) and just finished watching it. I think
I'm going to be sick.

Most of you know that I've put a fair amount of time into chronicling
the tools Norm has used in 19 years of TNYW. That has entailed
watching (and timing) a lot of TNYW episodes (243, so far). I didn't
start video taping episodes until around 1999--ten years into the
show--so I had to rely on HGTV rebroadcasts for all of the early
years.

As I viewed all of the episodes I learned that while the original PBS
content totalled 24 minutes and 18 seconds (I'm not sure why the odd
number, but it's been consistent over roughly eight years of actual
PBS content that I have), HGTV edited their airings down to 21 minutes
and 45 seconds--also consistent over twelve years worth of
programming, or 156 episodes (all that HGTV ever aired). I had an
overlap of a few episodes in the late '90s for which I had both PBS
and HGTV versions and it was interesting to see what they cut out--it
wasn't a lot, mostly setups and an occasional orientation shot--but
generally not a lot of meat. Of course I can't really say how much had
been cut from the earlier years because I had no comparison
recordings.

This morning marked the return of supplemental (to PBS) airings of
TNYW since HGTV ended their contract several years ago. I eagerly
anticipated it, since I've been transferring all of my VHS recordings
over to DVD. Although the VCR tapes were done from fresh, SP
recordings of either original PBS broadcasts or HGTV broadcasts of the
earlier years, I had to re-record them in EP in order to get all 13
episodes of a season onto a single two hour tape. Consequently,
there's a lot of noise (and jitter, due to different VCR machines
involved) on my archive tapes. I was hoping to be able to get pristine
transfers from my DVR to the DVDs with the new DIY offering. Here's
what happened:

The DIY version (at least for this first program) totalled 19 minutes
and 43 seconds of content. That's 4½ minutes out of the original 24+
minutes. I don't think it possible to find enough non-critical
material to take out of a 24½ program to get to where DIY apprently
feels they need to be, but I thought I'd at least check against the
PBS version I have. So I pulled out my archive and watched. Quelle
horror! Sure, there were a couple of minor cuts that I noticed at
first, but after building the panel cutter, panel raising jig, and
circle cutting jig, they stopped. They cut out one of the items
entirely--the finger boards. I was shocked enough when I looked at my
stopwatch on the first viewing and saw 19:43, but as I viewed the
original and found one fourth of the projects missing I was simply
stunned.

I think I'm going to be sick. I know I said that already. I don't
think I can say it too much. If that's the standard to which DIY is
going to air TNYW episodes, I'll recommend you not bother to watch. In
order to make that number, there will simply have to be significant
content excised which will render the program virtually useless. And
I'm stuck with putting my noisy, jittery, EP recordings onto DVD. Or,
I can buy 200+ episodes from TNYW at $15 a pop...probably not.

What a disappointment.

--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997

email addy de-spam-ified due to 1,000 spams per month.
If you can't figure out how to use it, I probably wouldn't
care to correspond with you anyway.

"Leon" wrote in
et:


"LRod" wrote in message
...


SNEEEEEEEP

What a disappointment.


Perhaps the latest in a very long line of DIY disappointments. I
guess the audience that they attract and actually keep has a shorter
attention span than the average viewer.

WoodWorks was the only program that I would and or did watch on the
DIY channel. I wonder if WoodWorks was originally a 1 hour show? ;~)




Woodworks was always a challenge to David Marks to show enough detail in
the perhaps 18 minutes that was made available to him. Think of all the
repeats after the commercial break, to bring the viewer back to the flow,
just to send him away 4.3 minutes later.

BTW, he's much better at speaking in complete, well-considered sentences in
real life. And I've only met him a couple of brief times.

You should see the stuff that pays the bills!

Patriarch

LRod wrote:

Well, I DVRed the inaugural offering of The New Yankee Workshop on DIY
this morning (Jigs, Part One) and just finished watching it. I think
I'm going to be sick.

Most of you know that I've put a fair amount of time into chronicling
the tools Norm has used in 19 years of TNYW. That has entailed
watching (and timing) a lot of TNYW episodes (243, so far). I didn't
start video taping episodes until around 1999--ten years into the
show--so I had to rely on HGTV rebroadcasts for all of the early
years.

As I viewed all of the episodes I learned that while the original PBS
content totalled 24 minutes and 18 seconds (I'm not sure why the odd
number, but it's been consistent over roughly eight years of actual
PBS content that I have), HGTV edited their airings down to 21 minutes
and 45 seconds--also consistent over twelve years worth of
programming, or 156 episodes (all that HGTV ever aired). I had an
overlap of a few episodes in the late '90s for which I had both PBS
and HGTV versions and it was interesting to see what they cut out--it
wasn't a lot, mostly setups and an occasional orientation shot--but
generally not a lot of meat. Of course I can't really say how much had
been cut from the earlier years because I had no comparison
recordings.

This morning marked the return of supplemental (to PBS) airings of
TNYW since HGTV ended their contract several years ago. I eagerly
anticipated it, since I've been transferring all of my VHS recordings
over to DVD. Although the VCR tapes were done from fresh, SP
recordings of either original PBS broadcasts or HGTV broadcasts of the
earlier years, I had to re-record them in EP in order to get all 13
episodes of a season onto a single two hour tape. Consequently,
there's a lot of noise (and jitter, due to different VCR machines
involved) on my archive tapes. I was hoping to be able to get pristine
transfers from my DVR to the DVDs with the new DIY offering. Here's
what happened:

The DIY version (at least for this first program) totalled 19 minutes
and 43 seconds of content. That's 4½ minutes out of the original 24+
minutes. I don't think it possible to find enough non-critical
material to take out of a 24½ program to get to where DIY apprently
feels they need to be, but I thought I'd at least check against the
PBS version I have. So I pulled out my archive and watched. Quelle
horror! Sure, there were a couple of minor cuts that I noticed at
first, but after building the panel cutter, panel raising jig, and
circle cutting jig, they stopped. They cut out one of the items
entirely--the finger boards. I was shocked enough when I looked at my
stopwatch on the first viewing and saw 19:43, but as I viewed the
original and found one fourth of the projects missing I was simply
stunned.

I think I'm going to be sick. I know I said that already. I don't
think I can say it too much. If that's the standard to which DIY is
going to air TNYW episodes, I'll recommend you not bother to watch. In
order to make that number, there will simply have to be significant
content excised which will render the program virtually useless. And
I'm stuck with putting my noisy, jittery, EP recordings onto DVD. Or,
I can buy 200+ episodes from TNYW at $15 a pop...probably not.

What a disappointment.



It is not only TNYW, as others have said, but the entire HGTV approach on
all its channels, however, DIY is the worst. Try finding a episode on the
website after you have just watched it on line. You might find it, MAYBE,
with a treasure map, blood hound and a large search party. But mostly, it
just is not there.

If something pops up on DIY that is mildly interesting, and there is nothing
else on, I will watch it. But frankly, neither the channel nor the website
has anything to offer that you can't get better elsewhere.

Deb

On Mar 17, 7:21 pm, LRod wrote:
Well, I DVRed the inaugural offering of The New Yankee Workshop on DIY
this morning (Jigs, Part One) and just finished watching it. I think
I'm going to be sick.

Most of you know that I've put a fair amount of time into chronicling
the tools Norm has used in 19 years of TNYW. That has entailed
watching (and timing) a lot of TNYW episodes (243, so far). I didn't
start video taping episodes until around 1999--ten years into the
show--so I had to rely on HGTV rebroadcasts for all of the early
years.

As I viewed all of the episodes I learned that while the original PBS
content totalled 24 minutes and 18 seconds (I'm not sure why the odd
number, but it's been consistent over roughly eight years of actual
PBS content that I have), HGTV edited their airings down to 21 minutes
and 45 seconds--also consistent over twelve years worth of
programming, or 156 episodes (all that HGTV ever aired). I had an
overlap of a few episodes in the late '90s for which I had both PBS
and HGTV versions and it was interesting to see what they cut out--it
wasn't a lot, mostly setups and an occasional orientation shot--but
generally not a lot of meat. Of course I can't really say how much had
been cut from the earlier years because I had no comparison
recordings.

This morning marked the return of supplemental (to PBS) airings of
TNYW since HGTV ended their contract several years ago. I eagerly
anticipated it, since I've been transferring all of my VHS recordings
over to DVD. Although the VCR tapes were done from fresh, SP
recordings of either original PBS broadcasts or HGTV broadcasts of the
earlier years, I had to re-record them in EP in order to get all 13
episodes of a season onto a single two hour tape. Consequently,
there's a lot of noise (and jitter, due to different VCR machines
involved) on my archive tapes. I was hoping to be able to get pristine
transfers from my DVR to the DVDs with the new DIY offering. Here's
what happened:

The DIY version (at least for this first program) totalled 19 minutes
and 43 seconds of content. That's 4½ minutes out of the original 24+
minutes. I don't think it possible to find enough non-critical
material to take out of a 24½ program to get to where DIY apprently
feels they need to be, but I thought I'd at least check against the
PBS version I have. So I pulled out my archive and watched. Quelle
horror! Sure, there were a couple of minor cuts that I noticed at
first, but after building the panel cutter, panel raising jig, and
circle cutting jig, they stopped. They cut out one of the items
entirely--the finger boards. I was shocked enough when I looked at my
stopwatch on the first viewing and saw 19:43, but as I viewed the
original and found one fourth of the projects missing I was simply
stunned.

I think I'm going to be sick. I know I said that already. I don't
think I can say it too much. If that's the standard to which DIY is
going to air TNYW episodes, I'll recommend you not bother to watch. In
order to make that number, there will simply have to be significant
content excised which will render the program virtually useless. And
I'm stuck with putting my noisy, jittery, EP recordings onto DVD. Or,
I can buy 200+ episodes from TNYW at $15 a pop...probably not.

What a disappointment.

--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997

email addy de-spam-ified due to 1,000 spams per month.
If you can't figure out how to use it, I probably wouldn't
care to correspond with you anyway.

L Rod,
I guess we are beginning to flog a dead horse by critisizing the DIY
network. But they do deserve it. I think some of their hosts, the ones
they get from central casting, know less about their subject than a
pig knows about Sunday.
Joe G

On 18 Mar 2007 16:17:26 -0700, wrote:

I also have an extensive NYW video collection, captured into MPEG
files, and noticed the same thing you did. IIRC, there's about a 5
second shot they cut where he plugged in his dust collector and the
missing fingerboards you noticed. They snip the preview of next
episode's project and add some music and a logo as they go into and
come out of each commercial.

They also chopped out the part where he drilled the hole in the panel
cutter and advised how to hang it somewhere convenient to encourage
using it.

When my PBS copy is good I'll stick with that, but I do have some
marginal HGTV episodes and will decide on a case-by-case basis if they
are worthy of replacement, or perhaps I should edit in the missing
pieces from the poor recording into the DIY capture.

http://www.ccsi.com/~mbrown/Woodwork...op_videos.html

Wow. You are lucky to have been able to grab those HGTV broadcasts
when you did. I'm sure you didn't have the video capture cabability
back in 1989 when the PBS broadcasts started.

Just for your information, HGTV only ever rebroadcast the first 12
seasons. And they had three separate contracts--'89-'96, 97-98, and
99-2000. I don't recall the specifics, but I would be very surprised
if they got through that last batch more than once before they pulled
the plug a few years ago (wish I could remember when it was exactly).
Consider yourself fortunate if you have many PBS versions before 2000.

The DIY contract is for at least season 13 (2001), but no earlier.
That's all I've been able to find so far. I doubt you will see any
earlier broadcasts from them (even though they are a subsidiary of
HGTV).

I thought about the editing-in part. Probably more work than I'm
interested in doing. Of course I'm working from VCR/DVR/DVD so it's
probably more cumbersome than doing it all on the computer.


--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997

email addy de-spam-ified due to 1,000 spams per month.
If you can't figure out how to use it, I probably wouldn't
care to correspond with you anyway.

On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 18:38:14 GMT, ROY! wrote:

On Sat, 17 Mar 2007 23:21:18 +0000, LRod
wrote:

Sure, there were a couple of minor cuts that I noticed at
first, but after building the panel cutter, panel raising jig, and
circle cutting jig, they stopped. They cut out one of the items
entirely--the finger boards. I was shocked enough when I looked at my
stopwatch on the first viewing and saw 19:43, but as I viewed the
original and found one fourth of the projects missing I was simply
stunned.

I think I'm going to be sick. I know I said that already. I don't
think I can say it too much. If that's the standard to which DIY is
going to air TNYW episodes, I'll recommend you not bother to watch.

So we shouldn't watch that episode because making the all important
fingerboard was omitted?

Death of a thousand cuts. It was much more than the fingerboard. I
also erred--it wasn't one out of four projects--I forgot the tapering
jig he built. They left out one out of five. That doesn't diminish my
pique.

Well, I guess that makes sense on someone's planet, but not mine.

Good for you.

Don't you have anything more important to be
shocked about?

Probably, but I also have time to be shocked about this.

I see no reason to complain, 90% of Norm is better than
no Norm at all.

I can hardly disagree there, but if you view it from the expectation
of 100% of Norm then there is a problem.

Why not send your objections to Morash? I bet he'd
also be shocked to learn of this travesty.

It depends. If it's strictly a money thing, then I doubt he'd care a
whit. If he's truly an artist, then the prospect of 20% of his work
being chopped up for profit might in fact shock him.


--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997

email addy de-spam-ified due to 1,000 spams per month.
If you can't figure out how to use it, I probably wouldn't
care to correspond with you anyway.

On Sat, 17 Mar 2007 23:21:18 +0000, LRod
wrote:

Or,
I can buy 200+ episodes from TNYW at $15 a pop...probably not.

Last I checked it's $25 for the video + plan, I don't see where you
can get just the video. And it's pretty limited as to what you can
get on dvd.

I find it amazing they aren't offering whole seasons together on dvd
without plans.


-Leuf

"Leuf" wrote

Last I checked it's $25 for the video + plan, I don't see where you
can get just the video. And it's pretty limited as to what you can
get on dvd.

I find it amazing they aren't offering whole seasons together on dvd
without plans.


I was reading an industry report that used the Stargate (science fiction)
episodes as an example for DVD pricing. It was pointed out that science
fiction fans would never pay the high pricing that many TV shows demanded.
So they priced them reasonably. And they are outselling many other shows.
And adding nicely to somebody's bottom line.

You would think that somebody would learn from that example.

On Mar 19, 3:13 pm, Leuf wrote:
On Sat, 17 Mar 2007 23:21:18 +0000, LRod
wrote:

Or,
I can buy 200+ episodes from TNYW at $15 a pop...probably not.

Last I checked it's $25 for the video + plan, I don't see where you
can get just the video. And it's pretty limited as to what you can
get on dvd.

I find it amazing they aren't offering whole seasons together on dvd
without plans.

-Leuf

Good point, write them and get your friends, wreckers and Normites to
write them and maybe they will start to offer them this way.

http://www.wgbh.org/contact/
http://www.newyankee.com/fanmail/mail_submit2.php3

SWMBO had a similar experience when her wonderful husband bought her I
Love Lucy DVDs. Saw scenes that hadn't been brodcast in her lifetime.

LRod:

What a disappointment.

--
LRod


Well, I understand your frustration. I am not sure if DIY will get
that many viewers who will understand what's missing. They
might just watch the "pretty pictures" and order the plans
later. The deal that Morash (and doesn't Time Warner
own NYW?, I know they own TOH) made is his deal to make. I
also presume that Norm got a cut as well.

This makes it all important that you continue to support your ONLY
non-commerical broadcasting - PBS. I for one, will continue
with watching DIY to see how they are showing the episodes and to
will make a better contribution to my local PBS station
next pledge break (which I expect almost any minute now!).

MJ Wallace

On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 10:23:37 -0600, "Swingman" wrote:


"LRod" wrote in message

I don't believe there's ever been a program anywhere on any channel
(infomercials don't count) that's aired more than 1:5 commercial to
content. That's 20%.

It's actuallly closer to 30% today ... from answers.com:

quote

Advertisements take airtime away from programs. In the 1960s a typical
hour-long American show would run for 51 minutes excluding advertisements.
Today, a similar program would only be 42 minutes long; a typical 30-minute
block of time includes 22 minutes of programming with 6 minutes of national
advertising and 2 minutes of local (although some half-hour blocks may have
as much as 12 minutes of advertisements).

I miscalculated the percentage of 1:5, think it was 1 in 5. It's
actually 1 in 6. Anyway, the specific percentage doesn't matter--we're
certainly in agreement that it's gotten larger.

My principal point, however poorly stated, was that there never has
been a 1:1 (50%) ratio of content to commercials in regular
programming, and I still maintain that's correct.

--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997

email addy de-spam-ified due to 1,000 spams per month.
If you can't figure out how to use it, I probably wouldn't
care to correspond with you anyway.

On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 22:22:13 GMT, Steve Hall
wrote:

Of course, this is all made possible by people who are still willing
to watch. So if you don't like it, do what I do--TURN IT OFF!

Which, unless you're a Neilsen family, is irrelevant because your
viewership means nothing at all. They don't know what you're
watching, so whether or not you watch it doesn't matter.

On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 22:38:41 -0500, Patriarch
wrote:

Woodworks was always a challenge to David Marks to show enough detail in
the perhaps 18 minutes that was made available to him. Think of all the
repeats after the commercial break, to bring the viewer back to the flow,
just to send him away 4.3 minutes later.

Think of how much extra time he'd have had if they didn't make him
recap what he did 90 seconds before every time they came back from a
commercial?

On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 00:20:49 +0000, Brian Henderson wrote:
On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 22:22:13 GMT, Steve Hall wrote:

Of course, this is all made possible by people who are still
willing to watch. So if you don't like it, do what I do--TURN IT
OFF!

Which, unless you're a Neilsen family, is irrelevant because your
viewership means nothing at all. They don't know what you're
watching, so whether or not you watch it doesn't matter.

If that's true, no one would buy ads.


--
Steve Hall [ digitect dancingpaper com ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwMXYK0dI4A

Not bad! And the woodworking is great too!

MJ Wallace

On Mar 19, 7:09 pm, ROY! wrote:
On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 16:50:03 +0000, LRod
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 18:38:14 GMT, ROY! wrote:

On Sat, 17 Mar 2007 23:21:18 +0000, LRod
wrote:

Huge snippage:

Maybe it's not all bad. Here is something I'm looking forward to.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwMXYK0dI4A

Thanks Roy. I'll be writing to all three of my PBS station today!

I don't know how Dean Johnson missed her...

LRod writes:

My principal point, however poorly stated, was that there never has
been a 1:1 (50%) ratio of content to commercials in regular
programming, and I still maintain that's correct.
I would agree, unless you consider product placement to be part of the
commercial. I understand they are using "green-screen" objects in some
shows that can have different advertisements/images appear on them,
depending on who is funding the show. (Entirely possible, although i
don't know if i'm remembering a "this is possible" or a "this is
being done")

--
flip
Just on the border of your waking mind, There lies - Another time,
Where darkness & light - are one. And as you tread the halls of sanity,
You feel so glad to be, Unable to go beyond. ELO - Twilight Prologue

wrote:
LRod writes:

My principal point, however poorly stated, was that there never has
been a 1:1 (50%) ratio of content to commercials in regular
programming, and I still maintain that's correct.
I would agree, unless you consider product placement to be part of the
commercial. I understand they are using "green-screen" objects in some
shows that can have different advertisements/images appear on them,
depending on who is funding the show. (Entirely possible, although i
don't know if i'm remembering a "this is possible" or a "this is
being done")

Might be possible for boxes, cans, or soda bottles, but for many
products the size and shape of the container are part of the
branding--those are difficult to green-screen.

Saw this in reverse for an ad for an ISP the other day--numerous laptops
ran across the screen, all with the manufacturers' logos carefully
blanked.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

wrote in
:

I would agree, unless you consider product placement to be part of the
commercial. I understand they are using "green-screen" objects in some
shows that can have different advertisements/images appear on them,
depending on who is funding the show. (Entirely possible, although i
don't know if i'm remembering a "this is possible" or a "this is
being done")


In a larger scale example, the Tribune Company did this to Wrigley Field.
They put an ugly green board up behind home plate so during the weekend
games the big broadcasting networks could sell ads on it.

Puckdropper
--
Wise is the man who attempts to answer his question before asking it.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm

"LRod" wrote in message

My principal point, however poorly stated, was that there never has
been a 1:1 (50%) ratio of content to commercials in regular
programming, and I still maintain that's correct.

You are correct. I doubt that even the cat, who appears to watch most of the
TV around here, would put up with that.

I wasn't sure just how much increase there was, or what the ratio of content
to ads there was these days, until your post.

I just knew there was indeed an increase. Actually, I would have sworn it
was bit higher than answer.com indicates(whose authority is unsubstantiated
in any case), but certainly not 50:50.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 2/20/07

On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 02:22:38 GMT, Steve Hall
wrote:

On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 00:20:49 +0000, Brian Henderson wrote:
Which, unless you're a Neilsen family, is irrelevant because your
viewership means nothing at all. They don't know what you're
watching, so whether or not you watch it doesn't matter.

If that's true, no one would buy ads.

People buy ads based on what the Neilsen families are watching, and by
extension, what that indicates everyone else is watching. They don't
know what non-Neilsen families are watching, hence your actual
viewership doesn't matter, they only care about their statistics.

On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 10:15:44 -0400,
wrote:

I would agree, unless you consider product placement to be part of the
commercial. I understand they are using "green-screen" objects in some
shows that can have different advertisements/images appear on them,
depending on who is funding the show. (Entirely possible, although i
don't know if i'm remembering a "this is possible" or a "this is
being done")

Depends on what you mean. They've been putting in ads in sporting
events like that for years, especially football games and racing where
they have big areas of wall to stick local and regional ads, depending
on where it's being broadcast. It would be much more difficult on a
show like NYW to insert tools or something, although they could put in
ads on the walls of Norm's workshop pretty easily, I would think.

On Mar 19, 10:22 pm, Steve Hall
wrote:
On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 00:20:49 +0000, Brian Henderson wrote:
On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 22:22:13 GMT, Steve Hall wrote:

Of course, this is all made possible by people who are still
willing to watch. So if you don't like it, do what I do--TURN IT
OFF!

Which, unless you're a Neilsen family, is irrelevant because your
viewership means nothing at all. They don't know what you're
watching, so whether or not you watch it doesn't matter.

If that's true, no one would buy ads.

--
Steve Hall [ digitect dancingpaper com ]

When talking about statistcs such as the Nielsens and others it should
be kept in mind that FIGURES DON'T LIE, BUT LIARS FIGURE
Joe G

swingman wrote:

It's actuallly closer to 30% today ... from answers.com:

The primary reason I haven't watched television in over 10 years.

On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 17:06:11 GMT, Brian Henderson
wrote:

On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 02:22:38 GMT, Steve Hall
wrote:

On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 00:20:49 +0000, Brian Henderson wrote:
Which, unless you're a Neilsen family, is irrelevant because your
viewership means nothing at all. They don't know what you're
watching, so whether or not you watch it doesn't matter.

If that's true, no one would buy ads.

People buy ads based on what the Neilsen families are watching, and by
extension, what that indicates everyone else is watching. They don't
know what non-Neilsen families are watching, hence your actual
viewership doesn't matter, they only care about their statistics.

Remember that other statistics besides Neilsen are now available as
cross-checks. Your cable company, Tivo, satellite provider, or other
provider all have the ability to gather statistics on what is being
watched, and with Tivo, even the number of times it is being rewound and
watched. You can bet those statistics are also used to factor advertising
charges.

Remember, as far as broadcasters are concerned, TV programs are *not* the
product. Viewers are the product.



+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

Greg Esres wrote:
swingman wrote:

It's actuallly closer to 30% today ... from answers.com:

The primary reason I haven't watched television in over 10 years.


My wife turns the set on for Oprah and the news ... and that's two more
programs than I will turn it on for.

This week Oprah is traveling across country in a car. I've seen several
scenes as I walked through the living room. SHe's got a bit of a potty
mouth on her.

I think I like Martha Stewart better. At least she keeps her cussing off
camera.

Bill


--
I am disillusioned enough to know that no man's opinion on any subject
is worth (much) unless backed up with enough genuine information to make
him really know what he's talking about.

H. P. Lovecraft

http://nmwoodworks.com


---
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ROY! wrote:
(snip happens)

Maybe it's not all bad. Here is something I'm looking forward to.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwMXYK0dI4A

Her lumber source looks like Public Lumber in Detroit ... right down to
the entrance ... hmmmm.

Bill

--
I am disillusioned enough to know that no man's opinion on any subject
is worth (much) unless backed up with enough genuine information to make
him really know what he's talking about.

H. P. Lovecraft

http://nmwoodworks.com


---
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On Fri, 23 Mar 2007 00:06:10 -0400, Bill in Detroit
wrote:

ROY! wrote:
(snip happens)

Maybe it's not all bad. Here is something I'm looking forward to.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwMXYK0dI4A

Her lumber source looks like Public Lumber in Detroit ... right down to
the entrance ... hmmmm.

Bill

There is a lumber dealer in Dallas that has a similar entrance as well.

Think the trailer indicated she is in Boston.



+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+