From an email, called Junk Mail from Bob:

Terrorists are Everywhere!

Baltimore closed down tunnels last month.

http://www.thewbalchannel.com/health...34/detail.html

A lady in Davenport Iowa found a bomb in her home. But it turned out to
be just a device to scare away underground aliens. Really!


http://www.qctimes.net/articles/2005...8115115343.txt

Kentucky is serious about antiterrorism. They are undertaking a program
to keep terrorists out of bingo halls and other charitable games. They
don't actually care if terrorists go play bingo. They just want to make
sure the terrorists don't operate any Bingo games.

The state Office of Charitable Gaming received a $36,300 grant to
provide five investigators with laptop computers and access a
law-enforcement database.

http://www.wkyt.com/Global/story.asp?S=4019597

The border patrol in Detroit stopped some runners after a radiation
sensor went off in the Detroit-Windsor Tunnel during a marathon. None
of the runners was carrying a nuclear weapon.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...1024.wmarath24

The FAA caught someone violating the Aircraft Defense Identification
Zone around Washington. He was promptly cited. The problem was, he and
his plane had never left Arizona.

http://avweb.com/newswire/11_38b/leadnews/190621-1.html


http://www.avweb.com/newswire/11_43b...ml?CMP=OTC-RSS

About a year ago, a lady in Denver didn't want her breasts searched at
the airport, so she drove home to San Diego.

http://www.10news.com/news/3799783/detail.html

A few days ago, a 63-year-old lady named Phyllis was fined $2000 and
given one year probation after she grabbed a screeners breasts and
said, "How would you like it if I did that to you?" The retired
technical-college teacher was convicted in July of assault on a federal
employee.

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=157&sid=124638

Charlie Self said:

From an email, called Junk Mail from Bob:

Terrorists are Everywhere!

snip of remainder of ridiculous 'security' related stories

I'm waiting for paint to dry... so....

I swear, it's absurd. We spent over an hour languishing around the
San Francisco Airport last year because the snap in the better half's
bra set off a detector. I was pulled for a rivet on my tennis shoe.

Doesn't anyone actually calibrate these things?

[/RANT]

And to top it off, I don't think it makes us a darned bit safer - just
annoyed and inconvenienced. Just a show for the public - something to
put a scare into them, and then convince them that everything is all
right because Uncle Sam is watching out for you - it would help
considerably if Uncle would stop ****ing people off.

For that matter, you can make a weapon out of just about anything -
what then? Are we going to fly people around stark naked for fear
that they might conceal something? Hey, let's do cavity searches...

We cannot continue to walk in fear - and I think it would behoove some
to consider what the passenger of one plane did. I guarantee you the
next time somebody pulls something like that, they will ALL take out
the terrorist. They've been knocked from the pedestal of "it can't
happen here".

Inspections, yes - but this is... well... don't get me started.

[/RANT]

SWMBO flies WAY more than I am will to. I'm not particularly fond of
air travel. Yes, you get there fast, but what about all the neat
stuff you just dumped a bunch of carbon particles on and missed. And
some of those planes...

But every time she gets on a plane, I still worry.


Greg G.

Charlie Self said:

From an email, called Junk Mail from Bob:

Terrorists are Everywhere!
snip
A few days ago, a 63-year-old lady named Phyllis was fined $2000 and
given one year probation after she grabbed a screeners breasts and
said, "How would you like it if I did that to you?" The retired
technical-college teacher was convicted in July of assault on a federal
employee.

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=157&sid=124638

And this! Must have been my grandmother.
They've GOT to be kidding. Is this stuff for real?
I wouldn't be surprised (and I would have cheered her on) if she
kicked the judge square in the shin - or maybe just a bit higher. ;-)
Federal Employee? Probably an $8.00 hour hire from a temp service.


Greg G.

On 6 Nov 2005 01:50:11 -0800, with neither quill nor qualm, "Charlie
Self" quickly quoth:

From an email, called Junk Mail from Bob:

Terrorists are Everywhere!


You and Bob missed one, Charlie:
http://www.chronwatch.com/content/co...408&catcode=31

Oh, and just for the record, all those Al Quaeda boys are all sitting
back doing absolutely NOTHING and watching us **** all over ourselves
with this anti-terrorism thing.

For the record, recent changes happening in this country aren't about
terrorism at all.

They're about total governmental control of the public.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Poverty is easy. * http://diversify.com
It's Charity and Chastity that are hard. * Data-based Website Design
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Charlie, I'm surprised you omitted the incident with Joe Foss. Foss, a
WWII Marine ace fighter pilot and Medal of Honor winner, was flying
from Phoenix to address the cadets at West Point. He was searched and
questioned extensively because he had with him an object that looked
like a throwing star with a sharp pin on the back - his Medal of Honor.
To be honest, he also had a Medal of Honor commemorative nail file and
a dummy bullet on a keychain with him. But, as a WWII ace and Medal of
Honor winner, retired reserve general and former governor of South
Dakota - and at 86 years old - he hardly fit the profile of a
terrorist. As I recall, they asked him at one point why he hadn't just
put his medal in his checked luggage. Incredible.

John Martin

Greg G. wrote:
Charlie Self said:

From an email, called Junk Mail from Bob:

Terrorists are Everywhere!

snip of remainder of ridiculous 'security' related stories

I'm waiting for paint to dry... so....

I swear, it's absurd. We spent over an hour languishing around the
San Francisco Airport last year because the snap in the better half's
bra set off a detector. I was pulled for a rivet on my tennis shoe.

Doesn't anyone actually calibrate these things?

[/RANT]

And to top it off, I don't think it makes us a darned bit safer - just
annoyed and inconvenienced. Just a show for the public - something to
put a scare into them, and then convince them that everything is all
right because Uncle Sam is watching out for you - it would help
considerably if Uncle would stop ****ing people off.

For that matter, you can make a weapon out of just about anything -
what then? Are we going to fly people around stark naked for fear
that they might conceal something? Hey, let's do cavity searches...

We cannot continue to walk in fear - and I think it would behoove some
to consider what the passenger of one plane did. I guarantee you the
next time somebody pulls something like that, they will ALL take out
the terrorist. They've been knocked from the pedestal of "it can't
happen here".

Inspections, yes - but this is... well... don't get me started.

[/RANT]

SWMBO flies WAY more than I am will to. I'm not particularly fond of
air travel. Yes, you get there fast, but what about all the neat
stuff you just dumped a bunch of carbon particles on and missed. And
some of those planes...

But every time she gets on a plane, I still worry.


I contend that the terrorists have won, because they have managed
(quite easily) to force major and costly changes in our lifestyles,
supposedly to keep them out. At the same time, this is of great benefit
to an adminstration devoted to jerking knots in the list of rights the
common man has access to, without really doing anything constructive to
either suppress terrorism, or keep down the entry of terrorists to the
U.S.

The aim is to keep the public fearful so that government actions to
"protect" us are gobbled up as necessities, though, in fact, none have
been very effective at all...at the moment, both major borders are
sieves, leaking illegal aliens to the south at an unprecedented rate,
with many of those who are caught being released within hours--no place
to hold 'em.

I don't know what the answers are, but it seems to me neither does the
government, while it also seems that the various governmental minions
are doing their damndest to make sure no one even knows what the
questions are.

One thing for su this week definitely demonstrates that George Bush
retains his worldwide level of appreciation from those in other
countries.

"Charlie Self" wrote in message
oups.com...


About a year ago, a lady in Denver didn't want her breasts searched at
the airport, so she drove home to San Diego.

http://www.10news.com/news/3799783/detail.html

I have to recommend this particular story...........

On 6 Nov 2005 01:50:11 -0800, "Charlie Self" wrote:

From an email, called Junk Mail from Bob:

Terrorists are Everywhere!

Baltimore closed down tunnels last month.

http://www.thewbalchannel.com/health...34/detail.html
.... and snip of some more

This is one area where I agree with you Charlie. This is a perfect
example of our government learning exactly the wrong thing from an event.
What 9/11 taught us was not that there were weapons on a plane that
shouldn't have been there, what 9/11 taught us were two primary lessons:
1) there weren't enough private citizens on board those planes with the
means to defend themselves, and more importantly
2) the claptrap mantra that, "in the event of a hijacking (or other crime),
the victims should docilely go along with the thugs' wishes and no-one, or
fewer people will get hurt" was proven to be the bogus bunch of hooey that
it is. The people on the plane that went down in Pennsylvania got it,
apparently the bureaucrats and government statists did not.

The American flying public learned those lessons, thus the capture of the
shoe-bomber (even though he was an apparent idiot) and several other
instances in which, what would have been the victims in the past, have
overpowered and subdued would-be hijackers.

It is very unlikely that a plane full of passengers will sit still for
any type of attempt to take over a flight in the future. What the current
stupidity and window dressing being done by the TSA goons is doing is
taking away useful tools from those potential victims, meaning that the
possibility for injury to themselves will be greater when dealing with
better armed adversaries who have circumvented the window dressing. All
the thugs have to do is look middle-eastern and well-lawyered and TSA won't
touch them -- passing them through checkpoints with barely a glance to
avoid any possible ramifications from the ACLU. Instead the TSA will opt
to strip search a few 90 year old grandmothers in wheelchairs or balding,
middle-aged white guys in suits (or a few medal of honor winners).


+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

Charlie Self said:

snipped previous thread content to conserve bandwidth ;-)

I contend that the terrorists have won, because they have managed
(quite easily) to force major and costly changes in our lifestyles,
supposedly to keep them out. At the same time, this is of great benefit
to an adminstration devoted to jerking knots in the list of rights the
common man has access to, without really doing anything constructive to
either suppress terrorism, or keep down the entry of terrorists to the
U.S.

Absolutely - down to the use of a color coded Terror Alert to yank the
leash when favor wanes.

The aim is to keep the public fearful so that government actions to
"protect" us are gobbled up as necessities, though, in fact, none have
been very effective at all...at the moment, both major borders are
sieves, leaking illegal aliens to the south at an unprecedented rate,
with many of those who are caught being released within hours--no place
to hold 'em.

Agreed.
Poking around the border between Texas and Mexico in 1999 elicited an
unnerving confrontation with border agents questioning my activities.
(No, I was _not_ picking up a shipment of terrorist weapons.) But at
night, all h%ll breaks lose. Look at Botswana for an indication of
how easily you can close a border. Motivation is the key factor.
http://www.gov.bw/home.html

I don't know what the answers are, but it seems to me neither does the
government, while it also seems that the various governmental minions
are doing their damndest to make sure no one even knows what the
questions are.

And emotional red herring issues to distract.
Hey Folks, watch the magicians _other_hand...

One thing for su this week definitely demonstrates that George Bush
retains his worldwide level of appreciation from those in other
countries.

Ride-em cowboy...
(No offense to_real_cowboys...)

The bromide claims that genius always skips a generation, but as
asseveration we see the father, in contrast, as paragon of wisdom.

I scowl at the shadow he casts upon me with heightening distain.

JMHO,

Greg G.

On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 06:14:33 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On 6 Nov 2005 01:50:11 -0800, with neither quill nor qualm, "Charlie
Self" quickly quoth:

From an email, called Junk Mail from Bob:

Terrorists are Everywhere!


You and Bob missed one, Charlie:
http://www.chronwatch.com/content/co...408&catcode=31

Oh, and just for the record, all those Al Quaeda boys are all sitting
back doing absolutely NOTHING and watching us **** all over ourselves
with this anti-terrorism thing.


Unfortunately Larry, that's not entirely true. There are numerous
accounts of various attempts to probe the security of our air system, one
example:
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/morse200510260833.asp



+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

Mark & Juanita said:

On 6 Nov 2005 01:50:11 -0800, "Charlie Self" wrote:

From an email, called Junk Mail from Bob:

Terrorists are Everywhere!

Baltimore closed down tunnels last month.

http://www.thewbalchannel.com/health...34/detail.html

.... and snip of some more

It is very unlikely that a plane full of passengers will sit still for
any type of attempt to take over a flight in the future. What the current
stupidity and window dressing being done by the TSA goons is doing is
taking away useful tools from those potential victims, meaning that the
possibility for injury to themselves will be greater when dealing with
better armed adversaries who have circumvented the window dressing. All

[TOT]
Which is one reason I don't believe in gun abolition.
(I think it's all there - just read it.)
Don't _want_ to use it, play with it, obsess over it, treat it as part
of the family - but it IS there if I _have_ to use it.
A reasonable deterrent to terrorism, tyranny, yadda, yadda...
(But not in bars, planes, malls, schools, asylums, etc, etc.)
[/TOT]

the thugs have to do is look middle-eastern and well-lawyered and TSA won't
touch them -- passing them through checkpoints with barely a glance to
avoid any possible ramifications from the ACLU. Instead the TSA will opt
to strip search a few 90 year old grandmothers in wheelchairs or balding,
middle-aged white guys in suits (or a few medal of honor winners).

Don't forget Cat Stephens and one obviously middle class couple on
their way home from vacation. :-\


Greg G.

Greg G. said:


I scowl at the shadow he casts upon me with heightening distain.

And I still can't type - disdain... disdain... Only 98 more times...


Greg G.

"Greg G." wrote in message
...
Greg G. said:


I scowl at the shadow he casts upon me with heightening distain.

And I still can't type - disdain... disdain... Only 98 more times...

Guess it skipped a generation with you, too?

What we need is for geniuses like yourself to cut lose with your infallible
method for detecting a thug without troubling the others people.

While you're at it, how about a cure for cancer.

George said:

"Greg G." wrote in message
.. .
Greg G. said:

I scowl at the shadow he casts upon me with heightening distain.

And I still can't type - disdain... disdain... Only 98 more times...

Guess it skipped a generation with you, too?

What we need is for geniuses like yourself to cut lose with your infallible
method for detecting a thug without troubling the others people.

One shot - One kill.

While you're at it, how about a cure for cancer.

Even better, how about a cure for stupidity.


Greg G.

George said:

Guess it skipped a generation with you, too?

Missed that the first time.

Do me a favor, and hop on Hwy 94 and leap into South Bay.
Better yet, Furnace Bay, 'cause that's where the hot air originates.
See, I can cast ad hominem attacks as well. Jeezz...


Greg G.

On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 21:26:00 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm, Mark
& Juanita quickly quoth:

On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 06:14:33 -0800, Larry Jaques
Oh, and just for the record, all those Al Quaeda boys are all sitting
back doing absolutely NOTHING and watching us **** all over ourselves
with this anti-terrorism thing.


Unfortunately Larry, that's not entirely true. There are numerous
accounts of various attempts to probe the security of our air system, one
example:
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/morse200510260833.asp

The clincher: No arrests & no known terrorists.

If you're afraid of flying any more, Mark, don't. But no
self-respecting terrorist g is going to be hijacking a U.S.
plane at a time when so much scrutiny is placed on flying.
They have MUCH easier targets which would cause much more
damage to us. That said, the Syrians might be getting a wee
bit anxious over King Shrub's potential invasion of their
country, and anxiety can breed stupidity. We'll see.

Besides, there's not a damn thing DHS could have done had
they been real terrorists. That's the nature of terrorism.
It can happen with as small a group as -one- person. It can
happen anywhere, any time, and nobody can stop it. Vigilance
is pretty much our sole defense. And if you look at the mess
we have in the vigilance department now, we're in deep kimchee,
dude. (We allowed Syrians in with expired passports, etc.)

Wasting hundreds of billions of dollars while gaining absolutely
nothing (and becoming the laughing stock of the entire world) is
-not- my idea of a smart practice. YMMV


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Poverty is easy. * http://diversify.com
It's Charity and Chastity that are hard. * Data-based Website Design
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Larry Jaques wrote:

Wasting hundreds of billions of dollars while gaining absolutely
nothing (and becoming the laughing stock of the entire world) is
-not- my idea of a smart practice. YMMV


Oh, c'mon, Larry. If you had a piece of Halliburton the size of the one
Cheney has waiting for him, and some major chunks of oil companies and
Hummer makers, you'd be laughing at the rest of the world, just as our
adminstration is doing. Alfred E. Neuman and the Sneer. What a combo.
If Karl Rove ends up out of the picture, who is going pull the puppet's
strings?

On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 09:10:13 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 21:26:00 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm, Mark
& Juanita quickly quoth:

On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 06:14:33 -0800, Larry Jaques
Oh, and just for the record, all those Al Quaeda boys are all sitting
back doing absolutely NOTHING and watching us **** all over ourselves
with this anti-terrorism thing.


Unfortunately Larry, that's not entirely true. There are numerous
accounts of various attempts to probe the security of our air system, one
example:
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/morse200510260833.asp

The clincher: No arrests & no known terrorists.

If you're afraid of flying any more, Mark, don't. But no
self-respecting terrorist g is going to be hijacking a U.S.
plane at a time when so much scrutiny is placed on flying.
They have MUCH easier targets which would cause much more
damage to us. That said, the Syrians might be getting a wee
bit anxious over King Shrub's potential invasion of their
country, and anxiety can breed stupidity. We'll see.

Besides, there's not a damn thing DHS could have done had
they been real terrorists. That's the nature of terrorism.
It can happen with as small a group as -one- person. It can
happen anywhere, any time, and nobody can stop it. Vigilance
is pretty much our sole defense. And if you look at the mess
we have in the vigilance department now, we're in deep kimchee,
dude. (We allowed Syrians in with expired passports, etc.)

Wasting hundreds of billions of dollars while gaining absolutely
nothing (and becoming the laughing stock of the entire world) is
-not- my idea of a smart practice. YMMV



You apparently missed my other post regarding the current window dressing
approach being taken to airport security.

Larry, flying doesn't scare me, I used ot love flying, now what I
really, really, really hate is getting to the airplane.

Blaming Bush for all this is convenient, but I guarantee you that had the
other party won the White House and control of the congress, what you are
seeing now would be a dream compared to the clamps they'd be putting on
society right now.




-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Poverty is easy. * http://diversify.com
It's Charity and Chastity that are hard. * Data-based Website Design
-------------------------------------------------------------------------


+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 21:20:15 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm, Mark
& Juanita quickly quoth:

On 6 Nov 2005 01:50:11 -0800, "Charlie Self" wrote:

From an email, called Junk Mail from Bob:

Terrorists are Everywhere!

Baltimore closed down tunnels last month.

http://www.thewbalchannel.com/health...34/detail.html
... and snip of some more

AM radio can't be wrong, eh? snicker


This is one area where I agree with you Charlie. This is a perfect
example of our government learning exactly the wrong thing from an event.

You got it in one.


What 9/11 taught us was not that there were weapons on a plane that
shouldn't have been there, what 9/11 taught us were two primary lessons:
1) there weren't enough private citizens on board those planes with the
means to defend themselves, and more importantly
2) the claptrap mantra that, "in the event of a hijacking (or other crime),
the victims should docilely go along with the thugs' wishes and no-one, or
fewer people will get hurt" was proven to be the bogus bunch of hooey that
it is. The people on the plane that went down in Pennsylvania got it,
apparently the bureaucrats and government statists did not.

Right.


The American flying public learned those lessons, thus the capture of the
shoe-bomber (even though he was an apparent idiot) and several other
instances in which, what would have been the victims in the past, have
overpowered and subdued would-be hijackers.

I climbed on a plane less than an hour after the shoe-bomber was
caught. Guess what the San Diego security had me do? I was the first
person in line (that I saw this happen to, anyway) to have to remove
my shoes and belt to have them scanned. And I was personally frisked.
I wanted to ask the gal if she'd do it but a guy jumped up instead.



It is very unlikely that a plane full of passengers will sit still for
any type of attempt to take over a flight in the future. What the current
stupidity and window dressing being done by the TSA goons is doing is
taking away useful tools from those potential victims, meaning that the

Like our lethal 1.5" long pocket knives? chortle Just to prove what
a total crock airport security was, I carried a brand new, freshly-
sharpened pencil in my shirt pocket, sharp point UP and in clear view.
Said lead came within a foot and a half of the TSA inspector, who said
nothing and didn't even eyeball the thing. He did, however, catch the
lethal weapon behind me. A pair of round-point bandage scissors which
hadn't been opened up so they could see the round points. The lethal
blades on that thing were nearly an inch long!


possibility for injury to themselves will be greater when dealing with
better armed adversaries who have circumvented the window dressing. All
the thugs have to do is look middle-eastern and well-lawyered and TSA won't
touch them -- passing them through checkpoints with barely a glance to
avoid any possible ramifications from the ACLU. Instead the TSA will opt
to strip search a few 90 year old grandmothers in wheelchairs or balding,
middle-aged white guys in suits (or a few medal of honor winners).

Ain't profiling fun? Our tax dollars at work. big sigh


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Poverty is easy. * http://diversify.com
It's Charity and Chastity that are hard. * Data-based Website Design
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

In article .com,
"John Martin" wrote:

Charlie, I'm surprised you omitted the incident with Joe Foss. Foss, a
WWII Marine ace fighter pilot and Medal of Honor winner, was flying
from Phoenix to address the cadets at West Point. He was searched and
questioned extensively because he had with him an object that looked
like a throwing star with a sharp pin on the back - his Medal of Honor.
To be honest, he also had a Medal of Honor commemorative nail file and
a dummy bullet on a keychain with him. But, as a WWII ace and Medal of
Honor winner, retired reserve general and former governor of South
Dakota - and at 86 years old - he hardly fit the profile of a
terrorist. As I recall, they asked him at one point why he hadn't just
put his medal in his checked luggage. Incredible.

An Oregon veteran experienced something similar, I believe it was about
a year ago. Seems a group of WW2 vets were invited to a European town
they had helped liberate. During a ceremony the vets were given
vintage-WW2-style Zippo lighters with engraving of their unit insignia,
the town's name and the liberation date. On the way home the Oregonian's
lighter was confiscated in the US by the screeners. He showed them it
had never had fluid in it, nor a flint; they took it anyway and wouldn't
consider an exception.

Upon returning home, the vet told his story to a relative or friend who
then contacted one of the Oregon senators who tracked it down and had it
returned to the veteran.

A thought has been rattling around in my noggin' for a couple years: why
doesn't the USPS, UPS or FedEx open offices in the airports specifically
for the purpose of shipping items that would be confiscated at the
checkpoints? Hell, they could even offer to hold the item at the
recipient's closest terminal until a specific date the recipient would
return to accept delivery. Granted, most items wouldn't be worth the
shipping cost, but take the lighter or the Medal of Honor incidents. Or
the special pair of sewing scissors Grandma received from Grandpa on
their 50th?
--
Owen Lowe
The Fly-by-Night Copper Company
__________

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
Corporate States of America and to the
Republicans for which it stands, one nation,
under debt, easily divisible, with liberty
and justice for oil."
- Wiley Miller, Non Sequitur, 1/24/05

Mark & Juanita wrote:
On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 09:10:13 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 21:26:00 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm, Mark
& Juanita quickly quoth:

On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 06:14:33 -0800, Larry Jaques
Oh, and just for the record, all those Al Quaeda boys are all sitting
back doing absolutely NOTHING and watching us **** all over ourselves
with this anti-terrorism thing.


Unfortunately Larry, that's not entirely true. There are numerous
accounts of various attempts to probe the security of our air system, one
example:
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/morse200510260833.asp

The clincher: No arrests & no known terrorists.

If you're afraid of flying any more, Mark, don't. But no
self-respecting terrorist g is going to be hijacking a U.S.
plane at a time when so much scrutiny is placed on flying.
They have MUCH easier targets which would cause much more
damage to us. That said, the Syrians might be getting a wee
bit anxious over King Shrub's potential invasion of their
country, and anxiety can breed stupidity. We'll see.

Besides, there's not a damn thing DHS could have done had
they been real terrorists. That's the nature of terrorism.
It can happen with as small a group as -one- person. It can
happen anywhere, any time, and nobody can stop it. Vigilance
is pretty much our sole defense. And if you look at the mess
we have in the vigilance department now, we're in deep kimchee,
dude. (We allowed Syrians in with expired passports, etc.)

Wasting hundreds of billions of dollars while gaining absolutely
nothing (and becoming the laughing stock of the entire world) is
-not- my idea of a smart practice. YMMV



You apparently missed my other post regarding the current window dressing
approach being taken to airport security.

Larry, flying doesn't scare me, I used ot love flying, now what I
really, really, really hate is getting to the airplane.

Blaming Bush for all this is convenient, but I guarantee you that had the
other party won the White House and control of the congress, what you are
seeing now would be a dream compared to the clamps they'd be putting on
society right now.


You cannot possibly "guarantee" such a thing. You THINK it MIGHT
happen. Your answer is total speculation, based on beliefs you have
that may or may not be accurate.

On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 21:18:30 -0700, Mark & Juanita
wrote:

Blaming Bush for all this is convenient, but I guarantee you that had the
other party won the White House and control of the congress, what you are
seeing now would be a dream compared to the clamps they'd be putting on
society right now.

And how do _you_ know this ?

Your logic of "I admit Bush is bad, but it's all the fault of the
Democrats" is simple blind partisanship and ridiculous.

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 21:18:30 -0700, Mark & Juanita
wrote:

Blaming Bush for all this is convenient, but I guarantee you that had
the
other party won the White House and control of the congress, what you are
seeing now would be a dream compared to the clamps they'd be putting on
society right now.

And how do _you_ know this ?

Your logic of "I admit Bush is bad, but it's all the fault of the
Democrats" is simple blind partisanship and ridiculous.


I'll tell you what's ridiculous. A bunch of whiners talking about how they
want to be "protected" but not inconvenienced. Used to remind such people
that I could only act after the law was broken, not before. What's worse,
the lawbreaker was normally set free after great public expense in
investigation, incarceration and trial. "First-time offender" doesn't mean a
lot when considering successful suicide bombers.

The real partisanship , as we should remember, was evidenced by those who
wanted a bunch of _federalized_ screeners with the double immunity provided
by union and government rather than folks who might be suspended or fired
for their attitude or treatment of those they were supposed to serve. What
was that about absolute power?

On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 21:18:30 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm, Mark
& Juanita quickly quoth:

On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 09:10:13 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

Wasting hundreds of billions of dollars while gaining absolutely
nothing (and becoming the laughing stock of the entire world) is
-not- my idea of a smart practice. YMMV

You apparently missed my other post regarding the current window dressing
approach being taken to airport security.

Larry, flying doesn't scare me, I used ot love flying, now what I
really, really, really hate is getting to the airplane.

Ditto that. Dog and pony shows, undressing, and pat-downs aren't
supposed to be a part of the fun trip on an airplane. Takeoffs and
landings are supposed to be the only exciting parts.


Blaming Bush for all this is convenient, but I guarantee you that had the
other party won the White House and control of the congress, what you are
seeing now would be a dream compared to the clamps they'd be putting on
society right now.

Herr Shrub is acting like a member of that other party, Mark.
What's the diff? Toss out ALL those bums. mega sigh


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Poverty is easy. * http://diversify.com
It's Charity and Chastity that are hard. * Data-based Website Design
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Charlie Self said:

From an email, called Junk Mail from Bob:

Terrorists are Everywhere!
snip

Worse than that, your children are subversives...

http://www.alternet.org/story/26503/

Pardon the source...


Greg G.

Greg G. wrote:
Charlie Self said:

From an email, called Junk Mail from Bob:

Terrorists are Everywhere!
snip

Worse than that, your children are subversives...

http://www.alternet.org/story/26503/

Pardon the source...


I had read about this--it was a big topic for a week in photo NGs--and
had one more disturbing thought, beyond the absolute arrogance of the
WalMart employee, the local fuzz and the SS. It is OUR money paying for
these idiots to act like this.

On 7 Nov 2005 09:36:23 -0800, with neither quill nor qualm, "Charlie
Self" quickly quoth:


Larry Jaques wrote:

Wasting hundreds of billions of dollars while gaining absolutely
nothing (and becoming the laughing stock of the entire world) is
-not- my idea of a smart practice. YMMV


Oh, c'mon, Larry. If you had a piece of Halliburton the size of the one
Cheney has waiting for him, and some major chunks of oil companies and
Hummer makers, you'd be laughing at the rest of the world, just as our
adminstration is doing. Alfred E. Neuman and the Sneer. What a combo.
If Karl Rove ends up out of the picture, who is going pull the puppet's
strings?

What I want to know is "Who pulls Rove's strings?"


================================================== ============
Like peace and quiet? Buy a phoneless cord.
http://www/diversify.com/stees.html Hilarious T-shirts online
================================================== ============

Mark & Juanita wrote:
On 6 Nov 2005 01:50:11 -0800, "Charlie Self" wrote:

From an email, called Junk Mail from Bob:

Terrorists are Everywhere!

Baltimore closed down tunnels last month.

http://www.thewbalchannel.com/health...34/detail.html
... and snip of some more

This is one area where I agree with you Charlie. This is a perfect
example of our government learning exactly the wrong thing from an event.
What 9/11 taught us was not that there were weapons on a plane that
shouldn't have been there, what 9/11 taught us were two primary lessons:
1) there weren't enough private citizens on board those planes with the
means to defend themselves, and more importantly
2) the claptrap mantra that, "in the event of a hijacking (or other crime),
the victims should docilely go along with the thugs' wishes and no-one, or
fewer people will get hurt" was proven to be the bogus bunch of hooey that
it is. The people on the plane that went down in Pennsylvania got it,
apparently the bureaucrats and government statists did not.

Damn straight! Resist!


The American flying public learned those lessons, thus the capture of the
shoe-bomber (even though he was an apparent idiot) and several other
instances in which, what would have been the victims in the past, have
overpowered and subdued would-be hijackers.

Indeed.


It is very unlikely that a plane full of passengers will sit still for
any type of attempt to take over a flight in the future. What the current
stupidity and window dressing being done by the TSA goons is doing is
taking away useful tools from those potential victims, meaning that the
possibility for injury to themselves will be greater when dealing with
better armed adversaries who have circumvented the window dressing. All
the thugs have to do is look middle-eastern and well-lawyered and TSA won't
touch them -- passing them through checkpoints with barely a glance to
avoid any possible ramifications from the ACLU.

This, I do not believe for a second.

Instead the TSA will opt
to strip search a few 90 year old grandmothers in wheelchairs or balding,
middle-aged white guys in suits (or a few medal of honor winners).


If any particular demographic is exempted from security then someone
wishing to get a bomb on a plane merely has to trick a person from that
demographic into carrying th bomb on for him.

Of the last three aircraft destroyed in flight by bombs all three bombs
were
carried on by white women. A fourth attempt was thwarted--also a
white woman. At least two of those four did not know they were
carrying
a bomb.

--

FF

On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 13:01:51 +0000, Andy Dingley
wrote:

On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 21:18:30 -0700, Mark & Juanita
wrote:

Blaming Bush for all this is convenient, but I guarantee you that had the
other party won the White House and control of the congress, what you are
seeing now would be a dream compared to the clamps they'd be putting on
society right now.

And how do _you_ know this ?

This can certainly be inferred by the various actions proposed by members
of that party. Who was it who pushed so hard that all federal baggage
screeners should be federal employees? It can also be inferred by the
reaction that members of that party have exhibited to other similar events.
While many of the current republican party are exhibiting statist trends,
with the exception of activities that tend toward what used to be called
immorality, the reaction of the democrat party has always been statist --
more regulation, more government control,and less individual freedom in the
realms of economic, political, or personal property rights.


Your logic of "I admit Bush is bad, but it's all the fault of the
Democrats" is simple blind partisanship and ridiculous.

Nowhere in my post did is say "it's all the fault of the democrats". What
I said was that the alternative to the current party in power would have
been worse. ... and I'm not crazy about what the current party in power
has done in this regard.


+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 07:30:05 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

What's the diff? Toss out ALL those bums. mega sigh

Smartest thing ever written in a political thread on usenet.

--
"We need to make a sacrifice to the gods, find me a young virgin... oh, and bring something to kill"

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

Fly-by-Night CC wrote:
I

A thought has been rattling around in my noggin' for a couple years: why
doesn't the USPS, UPS or FedEx open offices in the airports specifically
for the purpose of shipping items that would be confiscated at the
checkpoints? Hell, they could even offer to hold the item at the
recipient's closest terminal until a specific date the recipient would
return to accept delivery. Granted, most items wouldn't be worth the
shipping cost, but take the lighter or the Medal of Honor incidents. Or
the special pair of sewing scissors Grandma received from Grandpa on
their 50th?


I recall seeing something like that at Cleveland Hopkins a while back.
They had something like a vending machine that sold pre-paid padded
envelopes and a place to drop them to be mailed.

Dunno if it is still there.

--

FF

On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 12:20:39 -0800, with neither quill nor qualm, Tim
Douglass quickly quoth:

On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 07:30:05 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

What's the diff? Toss out ALL those bums. mega sigh

Smartest thing ever written in a political thread on usenet.

Thank you. This just in:

CDC Bird Flu Symptom List
-------------------------

The Center for Disease Control has released a list of symptoms of bird
flu. If you experience any of the following, please seek medical
treatment immediately:

1. High fever

2. Congestion

3. Nausea

4. Fatigue

5. Aching in the joints

6. An irresistible urge to **** on someone's windshield.


(LJ note: There must be several different strains, as the urge is to
**** on all politicians' heads.)


================================================== ============
Like peace and quiet? Buy a phoneless cord.
http://www/diversify.com/stees.html Hilarious T-shirts online
================================================== ============