I'm 45 and just a novice woodworker and have finally got some extra
cash to rid myself of my "bench top" table saw that the wife got me for
Christmas 8 yrs ago....boy I think I did things on that thing that would
amaze even you pro woodworkers.
The wife says I deserve an upgrade (gee thanks hunny..lol) Anyway
I've checked at my local Harbor Freight and to be honest their selection
was way less than what I thought it would be.
I checked at Sears and of course they stock the CRAFTSMAN brand name,
and have what I thought to be a pretty good selection in my price range
of about $500.00 but not more than $600.00....now they do have what they
call the "professional" model at $1000.00 but I really don't want to
spend that much....wow.
Anyway, if you guys/gals could give me some sort of guidance on this
I'd love to hear the pro's and con's.of what you think, or your
suggestions.
You can mail me directly of post here and I'll check for
replies....thanks so very much for your help.

Paul

"Nascar Raiders" wrote in message
...
I'm 45 and just a novice woodworker and have finally got some extra
cash to rid myself of my "bench top" table saw that the wife got me for
Christmas 8 yrs ago....boy I think I did things on that thing that would
amaze even you pro woodworkers.
The wife says I deserve an upgrade (gee thanks hunny..lol) Anyway
I've checked at my local Harbor Freight and to be honest their selection
was way less than what I thought it would be.
I checked at Sears and of course they stock the CRAFTSMAN brand name,
and have what I thought to be a pretty good selection in my price range
of about $500.00 but not more than $600.00....now they do have what they
call the "professional" model at $1000.00 but I really don't want to
spend that much....wow.
Anyway, if you guys/gals could give me some sort of guidance on this
I'd love to hear the pro's and con's.of what you think, or your
suggestions.
You can mail me directly of post here and I'll check for
replies....thanks so very much for your help.

Paul


At that price range I would suggest looking at Grizzly. (www.grizzly.com)
Lot of machine for the money and excellent support. I am sure there are
others, this would just be my first suggestion. I am pretty sure you will
be hard pressed to find anyone here that would speak bad of Grizzly.

Better yet, if you can keep an eye on Grizzly they do have some pretty
significant sales from time to time.

Chris

"Nascar Raiders" wrote in message
The wife says I deserve an upgrade (gee thanks hunny..lol) Anyway
I've checked at my local Harbor Freight and to be honest their selection
was way less than what I thought it would be.
I checked at Sears and of course they stock the CRAFTSMAN brand name,
and have what I thought to be a pretty good selection in my price range
of about $500.00 but not more than $600.00....now they do have what they
call the "professional" model at $1000.00 but I really don't want to
spend that much....wow.

You are not ready for an upgrade. If you are considering stuff from Harbor
Freight, you are not in the market for a piece of quality equipment.
Neither is your budget.

What you will get for that money is a saw that is better than what you have,
but will leave you want in more in a year or two, maybe only a month or two.
Save a bit more and get a Delta, Jet Grizzly, etc with a Beisemeyer or
Unifence or equal. That will be the saw you will be using 25 years from
now. Plan to spend $750 and up for the last saw you will ever buy.

"Nascar Raiders" wrote in message
...
I'm 45 and just a novice woodworker and have finally got some extra
cash to rid myself of my "bench top" table saw that the wife got me for
Christmas 8 yrs ago....boy I think I did things on that thing that would
amaze even you pro woodworkers.
The wife says I deserve an upgrade (gee thanks hunny..lol) Anyway
I've checked at my local Harbor Freight and to be honest their selection
was way less than what I thought it would be.
I checked at Sears and of course they stock the CRAFTSMAN brand name,
and have what I thought to be a pretty good selection in my price range
of about $500.00 but not more than $600.00....now they do have what they
call the "professional" model at $1000.00 but I really don't want to
spend that much....wow.
Anyway, if you guys/gals could give me some sort of guidance on this
I'd love to hear the pro's and con's.of what you think, or your
suggestions.
You can mail me directly of post here and I'll check for
replies....thanks so very much for your help.

Paul


You need to get upwards towards a thousand dollars ready to go. IMO Grizzly
is the best bang for the buck, right now, but that can be legitimately
debated. Watch the fence. The Shop Fox fences are adequate, and will give
good service, but if you could scrape together a bit more money, I'd upgrade
to Biesemeyer or a one of the clones.

www.grizzly.com

Hint: I have the 1023ZX. It ships at right at a 500 pounds. The sheer
mass of that saw dampens vibration, and allows even smoother cuts. However,
as long as you jump to the "cabinet" saw nomenclature, you're probably going
to get better performance over the "contractor" set up. That said, the
high end contractor's saws will give essentially the same performance as a
good cabinet saw, but they end up costing essentially the same, too.

Hint: Figure out where you're going to set that saw and then take the time
to stabilize and level it perfectly. You can buy trolleys to move them
around, (I have one), but a solid, well stabilized saw really is the goal.

Hint: The saw blade is a limiting factor on any saw. The better the blade,
the better the cut, and while it's not always a direct relationship
(!!!!!!), generally the more expensive the blade the better the cut.

Matching the blade to the cuts to be made, is worthwhile, too. I have one
super-dooper odd ball blade, specifically designed to cut plastics and
melamine. It works marvously on those materials. (It's some kind of triple
bevel setup. With care feeding of stock, I can get perfectly smooth results
with little or no chipping.) Doesn't handle everyday crosscut/rip duties
worth squat. The top line blades are probably going to exceed $100 in cost.
You can get by with less and I certainly do, but I keep one or two of the
top line blades in reserve when the job calls for it.

Hint: I like blade stabilizers. They're cheap.

Hint: The best fences invariably lock down, ONLY in the front. That way,
you can add extensions to the outfeed, at a later time. The Shop Fox locks
in both the front and back and while my SF fence always locks parallel and
straight, it's still a PITA because I can't figure a way to make a outfeed
extension without some serious work.

http://www.woodpeck.com/tslssystem.html This is a helluva of a system, but
it still suffers from the same shortcomings as the Shop Fox fence, i.e.
front and back lock. On the other hand, I have a Incra miter gauge that is
worth every penny, I paid for it.

http://www.biesemeyer.com/home_fence/index.htm I'm going out on a limb
here, but this is probably the "gold standard" in fences, right now.
(Alternate opinions are certainly possible here. In fact, I'd welcome some
alternate opinions.)

While I don't know where, there *has* to be some kind of commercial
relationship between Shop Fox and Grizzly.

James...
It's free advise, so you know what it's worth......nothing.

"Amused" wrote in message
...


While I don't know where, there *has* to be some kind of commercial
relationship between Shop Fox and Grizzly.

They are the same. IIRC correctly Shop Fox and Grizzly list the same
address in Washington.

Chris

"Nascar Raiders" wrote in message
...
I'm 45 and just a novice woodworker and have finally got some extra
cash to rid myself of my "bench top" table saw that the wife got me for
Christmas 8 yrs ago....boy I think I did things on that thing that would
amaze even you pro woodworkers.
The wife says I deserve an upgrade (gee thanks hunny..lol) Anyway
I've checked at my local Harbor Freight and to be honest their selection
was way less than what I thought it would be.
I checked at Sears and of course they stock the CRAFTSMAN brand name,
and have what I thought to be a pretty good selection in my price range
of about $500.00 but not more than $600.00....now they do have what they
call the "professional" model at $1000.00 but I really don't want to
spend that much....wow.
Anyway, if you guys/gals could give me some sort of guidance on this
I'd love to hear the pro's and con's.of what you think, or your
suggestions.
You can mail me directly of post here and I'll check for
replies....thanks so very much for your help.

Paul

I have to rethink my original answer. I think the others are saying the
same as well. There is a huge difference between another contractor saw,
and a cabinet saw, and your price range is a little low for a cabinet. I
thought it was close to a 1023 Grizzly, but my memory is getting weak. At
that price you are still looking at contractor style saw. There are plenty
of options out there, and Grizzly is still one of them. Grizzly does seem
to prevail even more when it comes to cabinet saws.

I would use what you have now and save for a cabinet saw, or look for a
used one local. For your price range you could get a decent used cabinet
saw. FWIIW cabinet saws always seem to have a higher resale value if you
plan to bail.

If you are really going to use the thing, a cabinet saw is the way to go.

Chris

You could take your time and hunt around for a good deal on an old
Unisaw or PM66 and save a little money to do some refurb on it. Just a
thought.

The is also a huge difference between a bench top saw (which he has now) and
a contractor's saw.

"Chris" wrote in message ...


I have to rethink my original answer. I think the others are saying the
same as well. There is a huge difference between another contractor saw,
and a cabinet saw,

"CW" wrote in message
nk.net...
The is also a huge difference between a bench top saw (which he has now)
and
a contractor's saw.

"Chris" wrote in message
...


I have to rethink my original answer. I think the others are saying the
same as well. There is a huge difference between another contractor saw,
and a cabinet saw,


Very true. I tend to think of them as the same (benchtop and contractor),
even though they really not.

Chris

"Nascar Raiders" wrote in message
...
I checked at Sears and of course they stock the CRAFTSMAN brand
name,
and have what I thought to be a pretty good selection in my price range
of about $500.00 but not more than $600.00....now they do have what they
call the "professional" model at $1000.00 but I really don't want to
spend that much....wow.


Raise your price range and you will be happier in the long run. Be prepared
to spend $750-$1000 and be done with it! spend less I will guarantee you
will be either upgrading parts of the saw you buy, (the fence perhaps), or
just simply replacing it all with yet another saw!
I went through this a few years ago and bought a Delta contractors saw. I am
pleased with the saw for the type of work I do and don't believe I will ever
replace it. The down side is that same saw in close to $1000 now.
Greg

Nascar Raiders wrote:
I'm 45 and just a novice woodworker and have finally got some extra
cash to rid myself of my "bench top" table saw that the wife got me for
Christmas 8 yrs ago....boy I think I did things on that thing that would
amaze even you pro woodworkers.
The wife says I deserve an upgrade (gee thanks hunny..lol) Anyway
I've checked at my local Harbor Freight and to be honest their selection
was way less than what I thought it would be.
I checked at Sears and of course they stock the CRAFTSMAN brand name,
and have what I thought to be a pretty good selection in my price range
of about $500.00 but not more than $600.00....now they do have what they
call the "professional" model at $1000.00 but I really don't want to
spend that much....wow.
Anyway, if you guys/gals could give me some sort of guidance on this
I'd love to hear the pro's and con's.of what you think, or your
suggestions.
You can mail me directly of post here and I'll check for
replies....thanks so very much for your help.

Paul

I've read some of the other responses. Sure, if you want to wait a
while until you can spend $1000 and get a cabinet saw, that's good
advice. However, if you're like me, the budget is the budget and even
six months from now it's still going to be $500-600 because that's the
amount that you're willing to spend. If that's the case, go with a
contractor saw but be sure to get a name brand and investigate the
specifications carefully. Jet, Delta, Powermatic, General, Grizzly etc.
Check out the Grizzly G0444Z. You can get it for about $600 including
shipping. Google that model number for lots of discussions from me and
other folks. The fence alone will rock your world after using the
benchtop and 2 HP is enough for most of us.

There are a lot of very accomplished woodworkers in this group with
extremely well equipped shops that are perfectly happy and do
incredible work with a contractor saw. I suspect many of them used the
money they saved on another machine or some exotic hardwood.

Tom

Grizzly offers this in both a 220v 3 hp motor or the 2 hp 110v I would
think for my needs the 2 hp would be enough, or for the same price
should I go ahead and get the 220v 3 hp ?
Sure am glad I checked with you guys first and thanks to all of you
for the advice.....alot of money, but sounds like it will be worth it in
the long run.

Paul

-snip-

Hint: The best fences invariably lock down, ONLY in the front. That way,
you can add extensions to the outfeed, at a later time. The Shop Fox locks
in both the front and back and while my SF fence always locks parallel and
straight, it's still a PITA because I can't figure a way to make a outfeed
extension without some serious work.

-snip again-

The standard SF fence that came with my 1023SL locks only
in the front. There were discussions here about the differences
between the "standard" and "deluxe" fence. IIRC, most felt
the standard was better in that the deluxe was too fussy to
keep right. I am very happy with the standard - it is
rock solid and true.

Lou

Hi Paul,

Get the 3HP and don't look back. Do it right
and be done with it. I got the 3HP on my 1023SL.
With a good blade (like the Forrest WWII which I
finally sprung for), that saw goes through 8/4 oak
like "butter" (sorry).

Good luck!

Lou

In article , Nascar
Raiders wrote:

Grizzly offers this in both a 220v 3 hp motor or the 2 hp 110v I would
think for my needs the 2 hp would be enough, or for the same price
should I go ahead and get the 220v 3 hp ?
Sure am glad I checked with you guys first and thanks to all of you
for the advice.....alot of money, but sounds like it will be worth it in
the long run.

Paul

"Nascar Raiders" wrote in message
...
Grizzly offers this in both a 220v 3 hp motor or the 2 hp 110v I would
think for my needs the 2 hp would be enough, or for the same price
should I go ahead and get the 220v 3 hp ?
Sure am glad I checked with you guys first and thanks to all of you
for the advice.....alot of money, but sounds like it will be worth it in
the long run.

Paul

I have the 3hp and am happy with it. Although I have a buddy who has the
2HP version and is more than happy with it. I think he just wimped out on
running the 220v. He does have some trouble keeping the breaker from
popping. More than reason enough for me to get the 3hp 220v version.

Chris

"Nascar Raiders" wrote in message
...
Grizzly offers this in both a 220v 3 hp motor or the 2 hp 110v I would
think for my needs the 2 hp would be enough, or for the same price
should I go ahead and get the 220v 3 hp ?
Sure am glad I checked with you guys first and thanks to all of you
for the advice.....alot of money, but sounds like it will be worth it in
the long run.

Paul

The Grizzly is a good choice, and you will never need to buy another saw
again. In fact, your descendants can keep using it long after you are gone.
Jim

USED. I repeat, USED.

Whether you want to buy a $250 used contractors saw or a $600 used cabinet
saw depends on your budget and workshop.
I have bought a used table saw, radial arm saw, jointer, biscuit joiner, and
a whole mess of smaller shop tools. I am very satisfied with all of them.
(Sadly I had to buy a new planer; they just don't seem to be available used
in decent condition)
I have also bought 3 used houses, and even a used diamond in my wife's
engagement ring. Sounds cheap? Well she kinda enjoys it when everyone's
mouth drops open when they see it; and only she (and now all of you) know it
is used and cost 1/3rd the price of a new one.

Can't quite bring myself to buy a used car. The warranty seems more
important than the small price break.

USED

You can mail me directly of post here and I'll check for
replies....thanks so very much for your help.

Paul

As you can see, there are many replies. All good advice too.

I will take a 2HP single phase 220 volt saw over a 3HP 3-phase if the
2HP has a good fence and runs vibration-free and has a flat top.
Precision is more important to me than power.
A cabinet saw with a Biesemeyer is what I would buy. I may be wrong, but
it seems to me that a cabinet saw is easier to set up for dust
collection?
The contractor saws often have stamped steel wings.. or the open-webbed
type of cast iron wings. I don't like those. I absolutely hate the look
of the stands.
Which brand of cabinet saw? After all the stuff I have been reading from
this credible bunch in this news-group, I would not hesitate to buy a
Grizzly. Personally I'd buy a General, but that's because I'm a
flag-waving damn proud Canadian. In other words, don't listen to me.
General does build a quality product. No doubt it's worth that little
extra money.

For What It's Worth.

"Nascar Raiders" wrote in message
...
I'm 45 and just a novice woodworker and have finally got some extra
cash to rid myself of my "bench top" table saw that the wife got me for
Christmas 8 yrs ago....boy I think I did things on that thing that would
amaze even you pro woodworkers.
The wife says I deserve an upgrade (gee thanks hunny..lol) Anyway
I've checked at my local Harbor Freight and to be honest their selection
was way less than what I thought it would be.
I checked at Sears and of course they stock the CRAFTSMAN brand name,
and have what I thought to be a pretty good selection in my price range
of about $500.00 but not more than $600.00....now they do have what they
call the "professional" model at $1000.00 but I really don't want to
spend that much....wow.
Anyway, if you guys/gals could give me some sort of guidance on this
I'd love to hear the pro's and con's.of what you think, or your
suggestions.
You can mail me directly of post here and I'll check for
replies....thanks so very much for your help.

Paul


I to am going to jump on the Grizzly band wagon here. I purchased mine
about 3 years ago ( a 1023s) and am very happy with it. I also had a tight
budget at the time and thought I could get a decent table saw for 300 to 400
dollars....heh, silly me. Then I found the wreck and read many of the same
replies you are getting now. Save a bit longer and get a good cabinet saw.
took me about 3 hours to assemble the Grizz. It also passed the nickel test
on the first start! And yes, you can believe Grizzly's marketing.

Paul.

now. Plan to spend $750 and up for the last saw you will ever buy.

Not necessary.

I have a Delta contractors saw I spend around $300 on. Works like a champ.
I'm willing to bet the stuff (finished furniture) that comes out the other
side of my saw is better if not equally good as those that own $750 saws.

I have been to some websites of woodworkers that have the $750 + saws and
all they make is CRAP.

That will be the saw you will be using 25 years from now.

45 + 25 = 70

Think he will be using the saw at 70???






"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
. ..

"Nascar Raiders" wrote in message
The wife says I deserve an upgrade (gee thanks hunny..lol) Anyway
I've checked at my local Harbor Freight and to be honest their selection
was way less than what I thought it would be.
I checked at Sears and of course they stock the CRAFTSMAN brand name,
and have what I thought to be a pretty good selection in my price range
of about $500.00 but not more than $600.00....now they do have what they
call the "professional" model at $1000.00 but I really don't want to
spend that much....wow.

You are not ready for an upgrade. If you are considering stuff from Harbor
Freight, you are not in the market for a piece of quality equipment.
Neither is your budget.

What you will get for that money is a saw that is better than what you
have, but will leave you want in more in a year or two, maybe only a month
or two. Save a bit more and get a Delta, Jet Grizzly, etc with a
Beisemeyer or Unifence or equal. That will be the saw you will be using
25 years from now. Plan to spend $750 and up for the last saw you will
ever buy.

Hint: You DON'T need to spend a thousand dollars on your saw.

Get a contractors saw with a CAST IRON TOP. I got mine for around 300 bucks
americano. Works like a champ.

My shop and some older projects:

http://home.triad.rr.com/brianmeliss...ing_frames.htm





"Amused" wrote in message
...

"Nascar Raiders" wrote in message
...
I'm 45 and just a novice woodworker and have finally got some extra
cash to rid myself of my "bench top" table saw that the wife got me for
Christmas 8 yrs ago....boy I think I did things on that thing that would
amaze even you pro woodworkers.
The wife says I deserve an upgrade (gee thanks hunny..lol) Anyway
I've checked at my local Harbor Freight and to be honest their selection
was way less than what I thought it would be.
I checked at Sears and of course they stock the CRAFTSMAN brand name,
and have what I thought to be a pretty good selection in my price range
of about $500.00 but not more than $600.00....now they do have what they
call the "professional" model at $1000.00 but I really don't want to
spend that much....wow.
Anyway, if you guys/gals could give me some sort of guidance on this
I'd love to hear the pro's and con's.of what you think, or your
suggestions.
You can mail me directly of post here and I'll check for
replies....thanks so very much for your help.

Paul


You need to get upwards towards a thousand dollars ready to go. IMO
Grizzly is the best bang for the buck, right now, but that can be
legitimately debated. Watch the fence. The Shop Fox fences are adequate,
and will give good service, but if you could scrape together a bit more
money, I'd upgrade to Biesemeyer or a one of the clones.

www.grizzly.com

Hint: I have the 1023ZX. It ships at right at a 500 pounds. The sheer
mass of that saw dampens vibration, and allows even smoother cuts.
However, as long as you jump to the "cabinet" saw nomenclature, you're
probably going to get better performance over the "contractor" set up.
That said, the high end contractor's saws will give essentially the same
performance as a good cabinet saw, but they end up costing essentially the
same, too.

Hint: Figure out where you're going to set that saw and then take the
time to stabilize and level it perfectly. You can buy trolleys to move
them around, (I have one), but a solid, well stabilized saw really is the
goal.

Hint: The saw blade is a limiting factor on any saw. The better the
blade, the better the cut, and while it's not always a direct relationship
(!!!!!!), generally the more expensive the blade the better the cut.

Matching the blade to the cuts to be made, is worthwhile, too. I have one
super-dooper odd ball blade, specifically designed to cut plastics and
melamine. It works marvously on those materials. (It's some kind of
triple bevel setup. With care feeding of stock, I can get perfectly
smooth results with little or no chipping.) Doesn't handle everyday
crosscut/rip duties worth squat. The top line blades are probably going
to exceed $100 in cost. You can get by with less and I certainly do, but I
keep one or two of the top line blades in reserve when the job calls for
it.

Hint: I like blade stabilizers. They're cheap.

Hint: The best fences invariably lock down, ONLY in the front. That way,
you can add extensions to the outfeed, at a later time. The Shop Fox
locks in both the front and back and while my SF fence always locks
parallel and straight, it's still a PITA because I can't figure a way to
make a outfeed extension without some serious work.

http://www.woodpeck.com/tslssystem.html This is a helluva of a system,
but it still suffers from the same shortcomings as the Shop Fox fence,
i.e. front and back lock. On the other hand, I have a Incra miter gauge
that is worth every penny, I paid for it.

http://www.biesemeyer.com/home_fence/index.htm I'm going out on a limb
here, but this is probably the "gold standard" in fences, right now.
(Alternate opinions are certainly possible here. In fact, I'd welcome
some alternate opinions.)

While I don't know where, there *has* to be some kind of commercial
relationship between Shop Fox and Grizzly.

James...
It's free advise, so you know what it's worth......nothing.

"stoutman" .@. wrote in newsCqZe.1821$ua.126940
@twister.southeast.rr.com:

That will be the saw you will be using 25 years from now.

45 + 25 = 70

Think he will be using the saw at 70???

Why not? I'm 60 now, and my Crapsman has served me pretty well for 20+
years of mostly inactivity. I earn my money doing research, and my boss is
almost 80, but still going very strong.

I may or may not get a "better" tablesaw sometime, who knows when I will
retire ...

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

"stoutman" .@. wrote in message
news
now. Plan to spend $750 and up for the last saw you will ever buy.

Not necessary.

I have a Delta contractors saw I spend around $300 on. Works like a
champ. I'm willing to bet the stuff (finished furniture) that comes out
the other side of my saw is better if not equally good as those that own
$750 saws.

I have been to some websites of woodworkers that have the $750 + saws and
all they make is CRAP.

Checked out my web site did you? This is true of table saws, cameras, golf
clubs, cookware, etc. You still need skill. Sounds like you have it; good
for you. That said, it is more convenient, possibly faster, and yes, there
is a feeling of satisfaction that comes from using quality accurate tools.
I could drive a Yugo and get to work every day, but prefer my Buick with all
the powered features.

I like being able to move the Biesemeyer fence, line up the cursor, and lock
it in place and KNOW is is going to cut at the stated dimension, every time.
And know that if I rip 1, 10, 20, or 50 boards, it is till locked in the
same place.



That will be the saw you will be using 25 years from now.

45 + 25 = 70

Think he will be using the saw at 70???

Sure, why not? I know of one guy that is 80 and still using his. You aren't
prejudiced against older people are you? Shees, I just turned 60 last week
so should I turn in my tools?
--
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/

I was simply making the point that the quality of product is not driven by
the size of the TS price tag, but rather by the quality of the craftsman.

If I believed the old "you have to have the $1000 TS" attitude, I would
never have tried this awesome hobby. Sure a $1000 TS would be nice, but IT
IS NOT NECESSARY.

Checked out my web site did you?

I was NOT referring to you, but the attitude of many.

--


"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

"stoutman" .@. wrote in message
news
now. Plan to spend $750 and up for the last saw you will ever buy.

Not necessary.

I have a Delta contractors saw I spend around $300 on. Works like a
champ. I'm willing to bet the stuff (finished furniture) that comes out
the other side of my saw is better if not equally good as those that own
$750 saws.

I have been to some websites of woodworkers that have the $750 + saws and
all they make is CRAP.

Checked out my web site did you? This is true of table saws, cameras,
golf clubs, cookware, etc. You still need skill. Sounds like you have it;
good for you. That said, it is more convenient, possibly faster, and yes,
there is a feeling of satisfaction that comes from using quality accurate
tools. I could drive a Yugo and get to work every day, but prefer my Buick
with all the powered features.

I like being able to move the Biesemeyer fence, line up the cursor, and
lock it in place and KNOW is is going to cut at the stated dimension,
every time. And know that if I rip 1, 10, 20, or 50 boards, it is till
locked in the same place.



That will be the saw you will be using 25 years from now.

45 + 25 = 70

Think he will be using the saw at 70???

Sure, why not? I know of one guy that is 80 and still using his. You
aren't prejudiced against older people are you? Shees, I just turned 60
last week so should I turn in my tools?
--
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
Sure, why not? I know of one guy that is 80 and still using his. You
aren't
prejudiced against older people are you? Shees, I just turned 60 last
week
so should I turn in my tools?

Absolutely you should turn them in. You're much too old for all those tools
Ed, so I'll help you to act your age by taking them off your hands. Let me
know where I can pick them up. And there's no need for you to feel obligated
to me. Throw in a case of beer and we'll call it even, ok?

Nice web site by the way.

I'm no Krenov or Maloof, and I probably never will be, but I doubt my
projects would be any better if I had a Beisemeyer fence and a $1000 TS. I
think all I need is more experience, heck I think for a 3rd year rookie Im
not doing that bad. I don't think I or anyone NEEDS a $1000 TS unless you
do this for a living. For me its just a hobby and probably just a hobby for
the OP.

http://home.triad.rr.com/brianmeliss...ing_frames.htm





"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

"stoutman" .@. wrote in message
news
now. Plan to spend $750 and up for the last saw you will ever buy.

Not necessary.

I have a Delta contractors saw I spend around $300 on. Works like a
champ. I'm willing to bet the stuff (finished furniture) that comes out
the other side of my saw is better if not equally good as those that own
$750 saws.

I have been to some websites of woodworkers that have the $750 + saws and
all they make is CRAP.

Checked out my web site did you? This is true of table saws, cameras,
golf clubs, cookware, etc. You still need skill. Sounds like you have it;
good for you. That said, it is more convenient, possibly faster, and yes,
there is a feeling of satisfaction that comes from using quality accurate
tools. I could drive a Yugo and get to work every day, but prefer my Buick
with all the powered features.

I like being able to move the Biesemeyer fence, line up the cursor, and
lock it in place and KNOW is is going to cut at the stated dimension,
every time. And know that if I rip 1, 10, 20, or 50 boards, it is till
locked in the same place.



That will be the saw you will be using 25 years from now.

45 + 25 = 70

Think he will be using the saw at 70???

Sure, why not? I know of one guy that is 80 and still using his. You
aren't prejudiced against older people are you? Shees, I just turned 60
last week so should I turn in my tools?
--
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/

"stoutman" .@. wrote in message
Nice web site by the way.

Thanks,

I'm no Krenov or Maloof, and I probably never will be, but I doubt my
projects would be any better if I had a Beisemeyer fence and a $1000 TS.
I think all I need is more experience,

Absolutely



I don't think I or anyone NEEDS a $1000 TS unless you do this for a
living. For me its just a hobby and probably just a hobby for the OP.

Fine furniture was made before the power table saw. True, no one NEEDS a
better one, but the op was looking to upgrade. If you are going to upgrade,
get something that is truly better, more convenient, etc. I started out with
a cheap Craftsman direct drive saw and it served me well for a couple of
years. Not knowing how well I'd do or if I'd be serious abut the hobby, it
was a good move. But, when I moved up, I went at least two notches. One
frustration with the benchtop was cross cutting wide boards. Moving up to a
full sized contractor model gave me a few more inches of space in front of
hte blade. It was great.



http://home.triad.rr.com/brianmeliss...ing_frames.htm
Nice work.
--
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/

"Upscale" wrote in message

Absolutely you should turn them in. You're much too old for all those
tools
Ed, so I'll help you to act your age by taking them off your hands. Let me
know where I can pick them up.

I drug them out by the curb. Get here soon because rain is expected
Tuesday.



And there's no need for you to feel obligated
to me. Throw in a case of beer and we'll call it even, ok?

Sorry, I'm really low on beer. How about a bottle of bourbon or a single
malt Scotch instead?

"Paul Rand" wrote in message
...


And yes, you can believe Grizzly's marketing.

Paul.

I do not think ya even need to listen to Grizzly's marketing. You can just
listen from their customers. I have had nothing but the best service every
time I have dealt with Grizzly. They do seem to come as a highly respected
outfit as well.

To be honest, I have not heard a bad word about them (although I am sure
there are some out there).

I have three items from them over 500lbs each. All three made it here the
next day after ordering. I returned one freight item and it was as painless
as possible, actually almost a joy after dealing with some other outfits.

Chris

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message

I drug them out by the curb. Get here soon because rain is expected
Tuesday.

Sorry, I'm really low on beer. How about a bottle of bourbon or a single
malt Scotch instead?

I suppose the bourbon will have to do. Good show. Now go find a senior's
home to move into like you're supposed to do. Glad to see that you've come
to your senses.

stoutman wrote:
now. Plan to spend $750 and up for the last saw you will ever buy.


Not necessary.

I have a Delta contractors saw I spend around $300 on. Works like a champ.
I'm willing to bet the stuff (finished furniture) that comes out the other
side of my saw is better if not equally good as those that own $750 saws.

I have been to some websites of woodworkers that have the $750 + saws and
all they make is CRAP.


That will be the saw you will be using 25 years from now.


45 + 25 = 70

Think he will be using the saw at 70???






"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
. ..

"Nascar Raiders" wrote in message

The wife says I deserve an upgrade (gee thanks hunny..lol) Anyway
I've checked at my local Harbor Freight and to be honest their selection
was way less than what I thought it would be.
I checked at Sears and of course they stock the CRAFTSMAN brand name,
and have what I thought to be a pretty good selection in my price range
of about $500.00 but not more than $600.00....now they do have what they
call the "professional" model at $1000.00 but I really don't want to
spend that much....wow.

You are not ready for an upgrade. If you are considering stuff from Harbor
Freight, you are not in the market for a piece of quality equipment.
Neither is your budget.

What you will get for that money is a saw that is better than what you
have, but will leave you want in more in a year or two, maybe only a month
or two. Save a bit more and get a Delta, Jet Grizzly, etc with a
Beisemeyer or Unifence or equal. That will be the saw you will be using
25 years from now. Plan to spend $750 and up for the last saw you will
ever buy.




I have a home made table saw, which I made about 25 years ago. It has
had many modifications, but has served me well. The original had a
wishing machine motor and this was only replaced about 2 years ago.
I dream of a $1500 table saw but we make do with what we have and what
we can afford. There always seems to be another better and or more
practical use for that few extra bob when it comes along.
I have made to many pieces of furniture with this old beast to count,
and one day, when I do get my dream saw I think I will be very sad to
see her finally go.
John

Why not? Our DIL bid on a bandsaw owned by an 84 year old man that
FINALLY was giving up woodworking. At 76 I'm hoping to get further
than he!

On Sun, 25 Sep 2005 05:31:15 GMT, "stoutman" .@. wrote:

now. Plan to spend $750 and up for the last saw you will ever buy.

Not necessary.

I have a Delta contractors saw I spend around $300 on. Works like a champ.
I'm willing to bet the stuff (finished furniture) that comes out the other
side of my saw is better if not equally good as those that own $750 saws.

I have been to some websites of woodworkers that have the $750 + saws and
all they make is CRAP.

That will be the saw you will be using 25 years from now.

45 + 25 = 70

Think he will be using the saw at 70???






"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

"Nascar Raiders" wrote in message
The wife says I deserve an upgrade (gee thanks hunny..lol) Anyway
I've checked at my local Harbor Freight and to be honest their selection
was way less than what I thought it would be.
I checked at Sears and of course they stock the CRAFTSMAN brand name,
and have what I thought to be a pretty good selection in my price range
of about $500.00 but not more than $600.00....now they do have what they
call the "professional" model at $1000.00 but I really don't want to
spend that much....wow.

You are not ready for an upgrade. If you are considering stuff from Harbor
Freight, you are not in the market for a piece of quality equipment.
Neither is your budget.

What you will get for that money is a saw that is better than what you
have, but will leave you want in more in a year or two, maybe only a month
or two. Save a bit more and get a Delta, Jet Grizzly, etc with a
Beisemeyer or Unifence or equal. That will be the saw you will be using
25 years from now. Plan to spend $750 and up for the last saw you will
ever buy.

loutent wrote:
-snip-

Hint: The best fences invariably lock down, ONLY in the front. That way,
you can add extensions to the outfeed, at a later time. The Shop Fox locks
in both the front and back and while my SF fence always locks parallel and
straight, it's still a PITA because I can't figure a way to make a outfeed
extension without some serious work.

-snip again-

The standard SF fence that came with my 1023SL locks only
in the front. There were discussions here about the differences
between the "standard" and "deluxe" fence. IIRC, most felt
the standard was better in that the deluxe was too fussy to
keep right. I am very happy with the standard - it is
rock solid and true.

Lou

I didn't realize that there was a Shop Fox fence that clamped in the
back, but indeed some of the saws in the catalog have a dual clamping
fence.

Most of the Grizzly table saws ship with the Shop Fox Classic or the
Aluma Classic fence. These are Bies clones that lock only in the front.
The Aluma Classic came on my G0444Z contractor saw. Thoe only
difference that I can see is the material on the face. Let's face it,
part of the reason the Bies is so good is its simplicity, which makes
it easy to copy. I'd bet good money that the Shop Fox copies are every
bit as good as the real Bies fences. The guide and clamping mechanism
is extremely solid, and it can be tuned to perfection. What else do you
need?

Tom

Sorry. I didn't intend to offend anyone. I just figured you oldies can't
drive so how can you still use a table saw? ---JUST KIDDING!!!

Again. I'm sorry I offended any seniors.



"nospambob" wrote in message
...
Why not? Our DIL bid on a bandsaw owned by an 84 year old man that
FINALLY was giving up woodworking. At 76 I'm hoping to get further
than he!

On Sun, 25 Sep 2005 05:31:15 GMT, "stoutman" .@. wrote:

now. Plan to spend $750 and up for the last saw you will ever buy.

Not necessary.

I have a Delta contractors saw I spend around $300 on. Works like a
champ.
I'm willing to bet the stuff (finished furniture) that comes out the
other
side of my saw is better if not equally good as those that own $750 saws.

I have been to some websites of woodworkers that have the $750 + saws and
all they make is CRAP.

That will be the saw you will be using 25 years from now.

45 + 25 = 70

Think he will be using the saw at 70???






"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
m...

"Nascar Raiders" wrote in message
The wife says I deserve an upgrade (gee thanks hunny..lol) Anyway
I've checked at my local Harbor Freight and to be honest their
selection
was way less than what I thought it would be.
I checked at Sears and of course they stock the CRAFTSMAN brand name,
and have what I thought to be a pretty good selection in my price range
of about $500.00 but not more than $600.00....now they do have what
they
call the "professional" model at $1000.00 but I really don't want to
spend that much....wow.

You are not ready for an upgrade. If you are considering stuff from
Harbor
Freight, you are not in the market for a piece of quality equipment.
Neither is your budget.

What you will get for that money is a saw that is better than what you
have, but will leave you want in more in a year or two, maybe only a
month
or two. Save a bit more and get a Delta, Jet Grizzly, etc with a
Beisemeyer or Unifence or equal. That will be the saw you will be using
25 years from now. Plan to spend $750 and up for the last saw you will
ever buy.

wrote in message

Hint: The best fences invariably lock down, ONLY in the front.

Garbage.

I didn't realize that there was a Shop Fox fence that clamped in the
back, but indeed some of the saws in the catalog have a dual clamping
fence.

Don't let a few opinions turn you away from a fence that locks down front
and back. I own an Excalibur that locks down both sides and I'll match it
cut for cut any day with a Bies or clone of a Bies fence. Bies fences just
happen to be more popular. That doesn't for one second mean that all others
are no good. Go and decide for yourself.

My Excalibur is easy to set up, maintains its accuracy quite well and
doesn't interfere in the least with an outfeed table. The space need for the
1" wide back rail doesn't effect outfeed to a table at all. There's
advantages and disadvantages (small ones in both cases) to both types.

"Upscale" wrote in message
...
wrote in message

Hint: The best fences invariably lock down, ONLY in the front.

Garbage.

I didn't realize that there was a Shop Fox fence that clamped in the
back, but indeed some of the saws in the catalog have a dual clamping
fence.

Don't let a few opinions turn you away from a fence that locks down front
and back. I own an Excalibur that locks down both sides and I'll match it
cut for cut any day with a Bies or clone of a Bies fence. Bies fences just
happen to be more popular. That doesn't for one second mean that all
others
are no good. Go and decide for yourself.

My Excalibur is easy to set up, maintains its accuracy quite well and
doesn't interfere in the least with an outfeed table. The space need for
the
1" wide back rail doesn't effect outfeed to a table at all. There's
advantages and disadvantages (small ones in both cases) to both types.


The original observation was mine. If you'll re-read the whole thing,
you'll see that I commented that my Shop Fox fence always locked down
straight and parallel, which is what it's suppose to do. I have absolutely
no complaint about the fence itself.

My observation was that with any fence, (I've ever seen) that locked in
both the front and back, it is extremely difficult to build extension tables
out the back of the saw. With my fence, there with simply have to be a six
inch gap between the saw and any extension table I might create.

(I was unaware that Shop Fox, at least now, has a fence that locks only in
the front.)

My observation was that I wish I had popped for a few extra dollars and
bought the Biesemeyer......

Clear now.

"stoutman" .@. wrote in message
...
I was simply making the point that the quality of product is not driven by
the size of the TS price tag, but rather by the quality of the craftsman.

If I believed the old "you have to have the $1000 TS" attitude, I would
never have tried this awesome hobby. Sure a $1000 TS would be nice, but
IT IS NOT NECESSARY.

[snip]

Saying you need a $1000 TS to be a better woodworker is like saying if you
buy a $1000 microphone you'll be a better singer --

World Traveler wrote:

"stoutman" .@. wrote in message
...
I was simply making the point that the quality of product is not driven by
the size of the TS price tag, but rather by the quality of the craftsman.

If I believed the old "you have to have the $1000 TS" attitude, I would
never have tried this awesome hobby. Sure a $1000 TS would be nice, but
IT IS NOT NECESSARY.

[snip]

Saying you need a $1000 TS to be a better woodworker is like saying if you
buy a $1000 microphone you'll be a better singer --

I liken it to student violin or similar...initially, there's no need for
a Strad for a beginner, but if there is real talent, at some point the
tool can become a limiting factor...

I was in the same spot a few years ago; the craftsman wouldn't do anymore. I
picked up a used Unisaw from a cabinet shop closing down. Best thing I ever
did for my shop. I have also had good luck with Grizzly, so just get the
best you can afford at the time. Look for used equipment, you may find a
great buy.
Gary
"Nascar Raiders" wrote in message
...
I'm 45 and just a novice woodworker and have finally got some extra
cash to rid myself of my "bench top" table saw that the wife got me for
Christmas 8 yrs ago....boy I think I did things on that thing that would
amaze even you pro woodworkers.
The wife says I deserve an upgrade (gee thanks hunny..lol) Anyway
I've checked at my local Harbor Freight and to be honest their selection
was way less than what I thought it would be.
I checked at Sears and of course they stock the CRAFTSMAN brand name,
and have what I thought to be a pretty good selection in my price range
of about $500.00 but not more than $600.00....now they do have what they
call the "professional" model at $1000.00 but I really don't want to
spend that much....wow.
Anyway, if you guys/gals could give me some sort of guidance on this
I'd love to hear the pro's and con's.of what you think, or your
suggestions.
You can mail me directly of post here and I'll check for
replies....thanks so very much for your help.

Paul

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in
news
"stoutman" .@. wrote in message
snip
I don't think I or anyone NEEDS a $1000 TS unless you do this for a
living. For me its just a hobby and probably just a hobby for the
OP.

Fine furniture was made before the power table saw. True, no one
NEEDS a better one, but the op was looking to upgrade. If you are
going to upgrade, get something that is truly better, more convenient,
etc. I started out with a cheap Craftsman direct drive saw and it
served me well for a couple of years. Not knowing how well I'd do or
if I'd be serious abut the hobby, it was a good move. But, when I
moved up, I went at least two notches. One frustration with the
benchtop was cross cutting wide boards. Moving up to a full sized
contractor model gave me a few more inches of space in front of hte
blade. It was great.


My work improved signficantly when I rolled the Shopsmith into the corner,
and brought in a Unisaw. Fences stayed square. Blades ran true. Arbors
tilted properly. I could cut heavier, longer & wider stock.

I also took a few classes, read a lot of posts here, hung out with some
remarkable folks in the woodworking club, and stopped working 90 hour weeks
in a mind- and body-killing job.

The tool was no longer the limiting factor, and I am fortunate that
affording the tool was/is not a problem. Now, when I screw up, I know
_exactly_ whose fault it is.

Patriarch