She asked if I was going to sell any of the bowls I make. To be completely
honest I never gave it a thought. So I have a question. When y'all started
turning was it more of a hobby, something to do as relaxation, or as an
adjunct to other construction activities? I see it more as relaxation and an
opportunity to create, as a balance to sitting in front of a computer screen
7:30 - 5:00 five days a week. I take enjoyment in seeing something actually
taking shape under my direction within a rather short period of time.
Gardening offers the same although the gratification is spread out over the
summer.
I give my bowls away as gifts and carted a dozen or so over to China this
past Christmas to hand out to wife's siude of the family. When you first
started thinking about selling, were there doubts about the quality of your
work and if anyone would actually but the things? Comments are appreciated.

"Kevin" wrote: (clip)something to do as relaxation, or as an adjunct to
other construction activities? I see it more as relaxation and an
opportunity to create, (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Almost everyone starts out with this idea--relaxation, creativity,
enjoyment. I have a book on the subject of selling arts and crafts, where
the author "proves," in an early chapter, that you MUST end up selling your
stuff or quit. At first you place them around the house, and give them as
gifts. After a while each your friends has more than one of your bowls, and
their smiles of appreciation are beginning to look a little forced. Then
the bowls start to pile up, and your effort to continue is pushing against
the backlog. So, according to this author, you must start selling.

The problem is that, for many people, this changes the attitude toward the
work and the time spent. Unless you are REALLY successful, your hourly rate
of return will be quite low.

For myself, I prefer not to sell. I turn only when I am enjoying it, and I
DON'T CARE if a little project takes a long time. If a job is a failure, I
just shrug. It it turns out well, I take it to the club "show and tell."

Kevin,
I started turning with the idea of selling my products. I was already
selling boxes and small furniture pieces, and was trying to find
something other than concrete work to do. When I first started, my
pieces were rather primative, but functional, and there are always
bargain hunters. As my skills improved, the prices went up. I don't
think that I am collectable yet, but I have a few regulars. If you
don't want to sell,and are running out of people to give them to, there
are all sorts of non-profit organizations who love to get things for
raffels, door prizes, and fund raisers. Schools, churches, women and
children centers, wild life rehab places, etc. Even if you don't sell,
someone will eventually come along and offer to buy one, and the first
thing that comes to mind as you are trying to figure out a price, is
which new tool, or piece of wood are you going to buy next. I was a
semi-pro for almost 10 years (that means that you make enough to
support your habbit and even pay some bills, but not enough to quit the
day job).I finally quit the day job over 2 years ago, and haven't
looked back. Turning is more fun than when I started because I still
learn something every day. I can't imagion that ever stopping until the
day that my birth certificate expires. (thank my dad for that quote).
robo hippy



















Leo Lichtman wrote:
"Kevin" wrote: (clip)something to do as relaxation, or as an adjunct
to
other construction activities? I see it more as relaxation and an
opportunity to create, (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Almost everyone starts out with this idea--relaxation, creativity,
enjoyment. I have a book on the subject of selling arts and crafts,
where
the author "proves," in an early chapter, that you MUST end up
selling your
stuff or quit. At first you place them around the house, and give
them as
gifts. After a while each your friends has more than one of your
bowls, and
their smiles of appreciation are beginning to look a little forced.
Then
the bowls start to pile up, and your effort to continue is pushing
against
the backlog. So, according to this author, you must start selling.

The problem is that, for many people, this changes the attitude
toward the
work and the time spent. Unless you are REALLY successful, your
hourly rate
of return will be quite low.

For myself, I prefer not to sell. I turn only when I am enjoying it,
and I
DON'T CARE if a little project takes a long time. If a job is a
failure, I
just shrug. It it turns out well, I take it to the club "show and
tell."

You need to decide exactly what you want your woodturnign time to be
for you. Look around at the craft shows, art shows, collectible
shows, etc. and figure what your pricing would need to be to make it
worthwhile.

In my city there are about million turners that dream of turning "pro"
doing something with their craft. I think that the reason it is so
much fun for people to turn is that it is a very polite craft that be
learned by just about anyone. So it is a great hobby for fun and
relaxation.

As a side bar, it reminds me of when pottery courses were popular so
many years ago. The fun part began with the creation of an object from
a lump of clay (found wood stump) and molding the material to your
wishes (turning) and decorating the piece to your whim (finishing).
Then you had the feeling that you created a piece of art from nothing.

But woodturning is just so much more manly than pottery. Same idea,
though.

As a full time carpenter/remodeler I do not build cabinets unless for
money, nor do I hang doors, put up crown mold or trim out rooms or
whole houses unless I am paid for it. Measure, cut, fit, place, nail.
Next piece. All in a day's work. I rarely cut or nail a board for
fun.

But I like woodturning. I have been doing as a diversion for about 8
years (don't watch much TV or sports) and love it. I can take small
scraps and glue them up and have instant material; I can go get a chunk
of my neighbor's tree when he has them trimmed, I can find something
when hiking that needs to be "chucked up". Lots of free or cheap
material to experiment with, and each chunk presents it own challenges.

I have indeed sold some of the things I have made, but more as a lark.
I don't want to ruin the most fun hobby I have had in years by having
any type of demands put on it.

If you are just going to sell stuff for fun, look at it as a great way
to pay for new gouges and sharpening stuff! Maybe even a new fishing
reel or a sleeve of golf balls. Then it's fun and worthwhile. If it
gets to be drudgery, then you will have taken something from yourself
that you seem to enjoy a lot.

Otherwise you wouldn't have all those damn bowls laying around! ; )

Robert

Kevin

1 Take it as a rule that you won't make a living out of it - only a very
few people do so.

2 I started as a hobbyist as a counter to the computer screen and now am
obsessed - well my wife says so, so it must be true.

3 Be selective in the craft fairs you show at. I go for few but quality
ones. The general circuit is a (to me at least) a waste of time. Think
carefully about what is on the other stands at the show - are you proud to
be exhibiting your wares in their company?

4 The greatest thrill I ever had (well fully dressed anyway!) was when a
total stranger (ie not a friend who was just being kind) pointed to
something I had on a stand and said "I'll buy it". It was only a few quid
(bucks if you are the other side of the Atlantic) but the money didn't
matter - it was the satisfaction that counted.

5 Decide whether you want to churn out cheap stuff or one-off pieces.
Either is valid but, in each case, don't underprice. That is a disservice
not only to the professionals, but to the rest of us who are trying to run
it like a business even if we rely on a salary to pay the mortgage.

6 Think about quality all the time. You can always tell a turner by the
way he (usually) picks up your piece. Are you embarrassed that a pro is
looking at a substandard piece with your name on it? On the other hand, you
are, or should be, your own hardest critic. You need to cover not only the
cost of the wood (and even if given it, I price it at cost price) but the
tools, electricity and above all time. On top of that there's the factor
"This is a damn fine piece of turning and they can jolly well pay handsomely
for it"

7 Burn your failures (of taste, finish or design) - or cut them on the
bandsaw to see the variations in thickness. For a long time, I used to
bring failures in to get assurance from my wife that I was right and a piece
was indeed substandard. She would exclaim "But it's beautiful", wrench it
from my hands and put it on display in the lounge. When I am out, visitors
are greeted with "My husband is a wood turner and sells his stuff, here are
some of his pieces". I cringe knowing that they are being proudly shown my
failures gallery.

8 I am about to retire to spend more time with my lathe but am well aware
that I must set aside time to be doing other things. Indeed it is said that
if you really turn professional, you'd better get a hobby (ie not turning).

I hope that was useful

Richard
"Kevin" wrote in message
...
She asked if I was going to sell any of the bowls I make. To be
completely
honest I never gave it a thought. So I have a question. When y'all
started
turning was it more of a hobby, something to do as relaxation, or as an
adjunct to other construction activities? I see it more as relaxation and
an
opportunity to create, as a balance to sitting in front of a computer
screen
7:30 - 5:00 five days a week. I take enjoyment in seeing something
actually
taking shape under my direction within a rather short period of time.
Gardening offers the same although the gratification is spread out over
the
summer.
I give my bowls away as gifts and carted a dozen or so over to China this
past Christmas to hand out to wife's siude of the family. When you first
started thinking about selling, were there doubts about the quality of
your
work and if anyone would actually but the things? Comments are
appreciated.

On Tue, 24 May 2005 10:11:43 -0500, "Kevin" wrote:

She asked if I was going to sell any of the bowls I make. To be completely
honest I never gave it a thought. So I have a question. When y'all started
turning was it more of a hobby, something to do as relaxation, or as an
adjunct to other construction activities? I see it more as relaxation and an
opportunity to create, as a balance to sitting in front of a computer screen
7:30 - 5:00 five days a week. I take enjoyment in seeing something actually
taking shape under my direction within a rather short period of time.
Gardening offers the same although the gratification is spread out over the
summer.
I give my bowls away as gifts and carted a dozen or so over to China this
past Christmas to hand out to wife's siude of the family. When you first
started thinking about selling, were there doubts about the quality of your
work and if anyone would actually but the things? Comments are appreciated.

I'll try not to make this too long *g*

I went back to turning about a year ago, after reading posts about turning green
wood... just saw a piece of old firewood in the bed of the truck one day and
decided to throw it on the lathe.. the wood turned out to be ash, and made a
pretty good "round box"..
My wife (3rd wife, so we've only known each other for 6 or 7 years) had never
seen me use the Shopsmith for a lathe and it kind of blew her away that I could
"do that".. lol
Since I still had part of a cord of mixed hardwood outside from the previous
winter, she thought it would be cool to turn some Christmas presents..
(see https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/xmas-04.htm )
As it "turned out", I was turning 5 or 6 crude (though I didn't think they
were, then) things a night... small bowls, boxes, etc... and she was staining
and finishing any that weren't finished on the lathe..
The problem was, she liked EVERY damn thing I made and squirreled them away as
soon as they were done... I think in a couple of months, I turned about 50
things and we gave away 3!

Added a Oneway chuck.. more stuff in the garage but no giving away..

She gave me a Jet mini for Christmas... MORE (and a little better) bowls and
stuff... I gave a few away and she was upset, so I just went back to making
'em..

then, she comes home with a 1/4 cord of plum.. "don't burn it, turn it.. I'm
lovin' it..

Anyway, about 7 months, another $700 or $800 for band saw, bowl chisels,
scrapers, etc., etc. and a lot of learning, and we have 3 cabinets (made for
them) full of finished stuff that she won't part with.. lol

In the last month or so, since we've gone to a couple of art fairs, she's let me
part with a few pieces... mostly from friends or neighbors telling folks what
I'm stuffing the shop with, and asking to see a few.. I've sold about 12 that
way, from between $8 and $35....

No big sales volume, but not bad, since I'm not really trying to sell yet.. the
income doesn't really stop the bleeding in the check book, but it pays for the
new bowl chisels I ordered and the buffer system she ordered..

I would never consider trying to make a living at it, it just wouldn't be fun
any more... I make what I want, when I want to... if some wants to pay more than
it costs me to make it, cool..
If they want something made to order, I have lots of folks here that I can refer
them too..
We'll do a few shows and fairs eventually... just bought a dozen plastic bins in
anticipation of transport to fairs.. they'll be full of scraps and firewood
pretty soon.. *g*



mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

I give away anything that my wife does not claim

A few months ago someone at work wanted something for his wife for their
anniversary. We scheduled a time for he and his wife to come to the
house to pick something out.

But first my wife had to give an OK on every single piece and only the
stuff that she did not want got put on the table for show.

The idea of standing at a craft show table all weekend does not interest
me. I would rather spend my time making sawdust.

mac davis wrote:
On Tue, 24 May 2005 10:11:43 -0500, "Kevin" wrote:


She asked if I was going to sell any of the bowls I make. To be completely
honest I never gave it a thought. So I have a question. When y'all started
turning was it more of a hobby, something to do as relaxation, or as an
adjunct to other construction activities? I see it more as relaxation and an
opportunity to create, as a balance to sitting in front of a computer screen
7:30 - 5:00 five days a week. I take enjoyment in seeing something actually
taking shape under my direction within a rather short period of time.
Gardening offers the same although the gratification is spread out over the
summer.
I give my bowls away as gifts and carted a dozen or so over to China this
past Christmas to hand out to wife's siude of the family. When you first
started thinking about selling, were there doubts about the quality of your
work and if anyone would actually but the things? Comments are appreciated.


I'll try not to make this too long *g*

I went back to turning about a year ago, after reading posts about turning green
wood... just saw a piece of old firewood in the bed of the truck one day and
decided to throw it on the lathe.. the wood turned out to be ash, and made a
pretty good "round box"..
My wife (3rd wife, so we've only known each other for 6 or 7 years) had never
seen me use the Shopsmith for a lathe and it kind of blew her away that I could
"do that".. lol
Since I still had part of a cord of mixed hardwood outside from the previous
winter, she thought it would be cool to turn some Christmas presents..
(see https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/xmas-04.htm )
As it "turned out", I was turning 5 or 6 crude (though I didn't think they
were, then) things a night... small bowls, boxes, etc... and she was staining
and finishing any that weren't finished on the lathe..
The problem was, she liked EVERY damn thing I made and squirreled them away as
soon as they were done... I think in a couple of months, I turned about 50
things and we gave away 3!

Added a Oneway chuck.. more stuff in the garage but no giving away..

She gave me a Jet mini for Christmas... MORE (and a little better) bowls and
stuff... I gave a few away and she was upset, so I just went back to making
'em..

then, she comes home with a 1/4 cord of plum.. "don't burn it, turn it.. I'm
lovin' it..

Anyway, about 7 months, another $700 or $800 for band saw, bowl chisels,
scrapers, etc., etc. and a lot of learning, and we have 3 cabinets (made for
them) full of finished stuff that she won't part with.. lol

In the last month or so, since we've gone to a couple of art fairs, she's let me
part with a few pieces... mostly from friends or neighbors telling folks what
I'm stuffing the shop with, and asking to see a few.. I've sold about 12 that
way, from between $8 and $35....

No big sales volume, but not bad, since I'm not really trying to sell yet.. the
income doesn't really stop the bleeding in the check book, but it pays for the
new bowl chisels I ordered and the buffer system she ordered..

I would never consider trying to make a living at it, it just wouldn't be fun
any more... I make what I want, when I want to... if some wants to pay more than
it costs me to make it, cool..
If they want something made to order, I have lots of folks here that I can refer
them too..
We'll do a few shows and fairs eventually... just bought a dozen plastic bins in
anticipation of transport to fairs.. they'll be full of scraps and firewood
pretty soon.. *g*



mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

"Kevin" wrote in
:

She asked if I was going to sell any of the bowls I make. snip
Gardening offers the
same although the gratification is spread out over the summer.

My grandparents always gave away at least half of the yield of their
garden. It brought them joy and satisfaction to do so, and was their way
of saying thanks for their blessings. It was a practice that we adopted,
when my wife and I first got our own garden plot.

My woodworking has followed somewhat the same path. I have no doubt that I
could sell for money, and may pursue that path, if and when the time is
right. Until then, the value of my giving the gift exceeds the value of a
marginal dollar.

When it stops being a hobby, and starts being a job, does the fun go away?
That's the question you have to explore.

Patriarch

Hi Kevin,

All of my woodworking is for pleasure and relaxation. I have a friend
that sells some of my stuff at craft shows and any money taking in goes to
new gadgets or tools. It would be real hard to make a true living at it, but
the bit of extra income gives a bit of flexiblity to buy new toys! Hope this
way of thinking helps your thought process.

Dan

"Kevin" wrote in message
...
She asked if I was going to sell any of the bowls I make. To be
completely
honest I never gave it a thought. So I have a question. When y'all
started
turning was it more of a hobby, something to do as relaxation, or as an
adjunct to other construction activities? I see it more as relaxation and
an
opportunity to create, as a balance to sitting in front of a computer
screen
7:30 - 5:00 five days a week. I take enjoyment in seeing something
actually
taking shape under my direction within a rather short period of time.
Gardening offers the same although the gratification is spread out over
the
summer.
I give my bowls away as gifts and carted a dozen or so over to China this
past Christmas to hand out to wife's siude of the family. When you first
started thinking about selling, were there doubts about the quality of
your
work and if anyone would actually but the things? Comments are
appreciated.

"william kossack" wrote in message
...

The idea of standing at a craft show table all weekend does not interest
me. I would rather spend my time making sawdust.


As soon as you find out that painters think they're the only "artists" in a
show, and start to hang out with the rest, there's good company. You also
meet a lot of other folks who "could do it too," or even "better" there.
One or two of them in any show are even turners. Leaving the kids - whose
college the sales pay - to watch the stand, and shooting the breeze with
wood folk and potters makes a great day or weekend.

Though you may see them only a couple times a year, you get to see the
pictures and hear the stories over breakfast or dinner, and share a cuppa at
the campground. This year I have pictures of my grandsons, who were only
burden to their mother a year ago September.

Coming a bit late into the discussion, I could be going over old ground but here's my 2d worth.

Like most turners, I took up woodturning because it seemed a good idea at the time. Like most woodturners I soon got hooked and acquired more and more tools etc to produce more and more turned items. Gifts to friends, relations and work colleagues helped reduce the numbers scattered around the house but they were still multiplying. Fortunately I was asked to take part in a village fete in France (where we have a "maison secondaire" and I keep a portable lathe). Almost everything I had put on the stall went and I had a number of back orders.

Since then I have attended a few local craft fairs in the UK and made very satisfactory sales. This still didn't make me a pro and nothing will as the time I take to make an item to my satisfaction (to say nothing of that of "senior management") gives me an hourly rate well under the national minimum wage.

What I do get, however, is the satisfaction of seeing people admire my work, even if they don't buy i, and talking about wood and turning. Last weekend, I topped it off by selling an item to another woodturner!

So, give it a try. A stall at a local fair is very cheap and can be a fun day out. If you sell, so much the better.

Patriarch wrote:
My grandparents always gave away at least half of the yield of their
garden. It brought them joy and satisfaction to do so, and was their way
of saying thanks for their blessings. It was a practice that we adopted,
when my wife and I first got our own garden plot.

My woodworking has followed somewhat the same path. I have no doubt that I
could sell for money, and may pursue that path, if and when the time is
right. Until then, the value of my giving the gift exceeds the value of a
marginal dollar.

When it stops being a hobby, and starts being a job, does the fun go away?
That's the question you have to explore.

Couldn't agree more. I made the mistake of taking on a job as
"suggested". Absolutely hated it. I don't mind selling the odd
peice, but having to do it per sombody else's direction... you
can't pay me enough. I turn to enjoy it , making a job out of it
does just that, it makes a job out of it. (spits on ground).

Dave in Fairfax
--
Dave Leader
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/
PATINA
http://www.Patinatools.org/

"Kevin" wrote in message
...
She asked if I was going to sell any of the bowls I make. To be
completely
honest I never gave it a thought. So I have a question. When y'all
started
turning was it more of a hobby, something to do as relaxation, or as an
adjunct to other construction activities? I see it more as relaxation and
an
opportunity to create, as a balance to sitting in front of a computer
screen
7:30 - 5:00 five days a week. I take enjoyment in seeing something
actually
taking shape under my direction within a rather short period of time.
Gardening offers the same although the gratification is spread out over
the
summer.
I give my bowls away as gifts and carted a dozen or so over to China this
past Christmas to hand out to wife's siude of the family. When you first
started thinking about selling, were there doubts about the quality of
your
work and if anyone would actually but the things? Comments are
appreciated.



I do my turning as a hobby for a couple of reasons.
The first is I don't need the money and I don't want my fun-time to turn
into work with demands and deadlines I retired to get away from.
The second is, and you should be very careful about this, is that if you are
turning in your residence and selling then you have changed the risk level
for your insurance company and may find your residential policy void. The
increased risk comes from (what the insurer sees) as increased fire hazard
due to storage and use of larger volumes of finishes and possibly personal
injury of a client visiting your location for business purposes. These, of
course, may not be any worse than what you have as a hobby but insurance
companies aren't too interested in individual case evaluations. If this is a
concern to you then you may find the increased premiums will take the
profits out of your venture.


Billh

Hi Kevin,

About 10 years ago, after doing flat work for about twenty years, I stumbled
into turning. I was already hooked by the time that first awful weed pot
came off the lathe. After a brief run of excitement over somewhat free
gifts, we discovered that my wife couldn't give the stuff away fast enough
to stem the tide of turnings. So selling was inevitable.

One of the problems is how to get into selling without selling out your
hobby. Nailshooter nailed one of the dilemmas when he wrote--

I have indeed sold some of the things I have made, but more as a lark.
I don't want to ruin the most fun hobby I have had in years by having
any type of demands put on it.

I avoided this problem by NEVER making a custom order. If someone wanted
something special I would agree to make one in my choice of style, my choice
of woods, my choice of finish and on my own schedule. When the project was
completed, I would call the person to come and have first shot at buying it.

Very seldom did the customer ever not buy the item. If they didn't, someone
else did. Because I learned that when I liked what I made, others did also.

Now, about selling. I have avoided galleries like the plague after my
initial exposure to the artsy types. I found my best market in gift shops
and drugstores. Putting a load of turnings in my truck and selling wholesale
to retail establishments is much preferred to the craft circuit. Although I
do a bit of that also.

I never intended to make it a business or the major source of income. But
over the years it has kept the stash of turnings at a manageable level and
given me a very enjoyable hobby that has not drained the family budget. The
sales covered the costs of equipment, wood, gadgets, finishes and sandpaper.
In essence, giving me a very pleasurable free hobby. My golfing, fishing,
hunting and collecting friends don't have it as well.

Good luck on finding your own niche in the turning world.

Ron

Ron Robinson
East Texas

Kevin,

I was a part time photographer for about 17 years. I really enjoyed it
for a long time. But, toward the end it became a drag. It was a
secondary income and became very time consuming. I am now back to
doing photograhy only for fun. But during that 17 years I learned a
lot about part time business/hobbies. Here are a few things:

1. Learning to deal with people is just as important as being good at
your craft. Bed side manner is important.
2. Just because you are taking in lots of money doesn't mean you are
making any. I think I ended up paying people to take their pictures
when I first started and didn't even know it.
3. Once you have a contract with a person for a job they become your
boss. You are never really working for yourself.
4. There is more involved in running a business than just taking
pictures (or turning bowls). All of that other stuff that needs to be
done to run a business is not as much fun but it is necessary.

I took a few years off from having any hobby until I couldn't stand it
any more. So a few years ago I started looking for a new release for
my creative energies. One day I wondered into an restaraunt that had
an art gallery attached. Low and behold they were displaying some
pieces that were made of wood and (I found out later) were made on a
lathe. I started to research how woodturning was done and before long
ended up buying a lathe. Next came all of the extras needed to make
the turning process work efficiently. All of a sudden it was getting
as expensive as all of the cameras and studio equipment I had just
gotten rid of. But it was fun and I was hooked.

In the past few years I have given a lot of bowls away. More recently
everyone has been asking me if I plan to sell them. At first I was
reluctant. But, my wife took some to work and sold over $200 worth in
one day. Then about 3 weeks ago she sign me up for a small one day
craft show. It wasn't very well advertised and very few people showed
up but I sold another $600 worth (25 bowls this time ranging from $20
to $75 each). I think I'm hooked again.

I have a few more years before I can retire but I think woodturning
will become a part time income once I do. I like talking to people
about what I have made and I like making a few bucks in the process.
But I don't think I will ever do this as my sole income. I hope that I
have learned some lessons from my first business so I don't get burned
out again. One thing I like about woodturning over photography is that
no one has to see my work in progress or even know what I am working
on until it is done. If you are taking pictures of people they are
there with you while you are creating. That can be annoying. But
woodworking lets me work at my own pace without someone looking over my
shoulder the whole time. So far the only pressure I feel is that which
I put on myself.

Hope this meandering story helps,
Ted

In September 2000, I published a series of articles from the newsgroup on the
subject "Making a Living Turning Wood". There were some pretty good messages in
that series of articles taking up about four pages in that issue.

This current thread has a lot of good information that I would like to share
with my readers. If you don't mind my using your post in an article titled,
"Should I sell my Woodturnings?", please let me know. Each post used will carry
the credit line of the author of the post. If you do not wish to have your
posting included in that article, please e-mail me to say "don't publish my
post" at . If I do not hear from you, I will assume that
I have your permission.

Fred Holder
http://www.fholder.com

In article .com, Ted says...

Kevin,

I was a part time photographer for about 17 years. I really enjoyed it
for a long time. But, toward the end it became a drag. It was a
secondary income and became very time consuming. I am now back to
doing photograhy only for fun. But during that 17 years I learned a
lot about part time business/hobbies. Here are a few things:

1. Learning to deal with people is just as important as being good at
your craft. Bed side manner is important.
2. Just because you are taking in lots of money doesn't mean you are
making any. I think I ended up paying people to take their pictures
when I first started and didn't even know it.
3. Once you have a contract with a person for a job they become your
boss. You are never really working for yourself.
4. There is more involved in running a business than just taking
pictures (or turning bowls). All of that other stuff that needs to be
done to run a business is not as much fun but it is necessary.

I took a few years off from having any hobby until I couldn't stand it
any more. So a few years ago I started looking for a new release for
my creative energies. One day I wondered into an restaraunt that had
an art gallery attached. Low and behold they were displaying some
pieces that were made of wood and (I found out later) were made on a
lathe. I started to research how woodturning was done and before long
ended up buying a lathe. Next came all of the extras needed to make
the turning process work efficiently. All of a sudden it was getting
as expensive as all of the cameras and studio equipment I had just
gotten rid of. But it was fun and I was hooked.

In the past few years I have given a lot of bowls away. More recently
everyone has been asking me if I plan to sell them. At first I was
reluctant. But, my wife took some to work and sold over $200 worth in
one day. Then about 3 weeks ago she sign me up for a small one day
craft show. It wasn't very well advertised and very few people showed
up but I sold another $600 worth (25 bowls this time ranging from $20
to $75 each). I think I'm hooked again.

I have a few more years before I can retire but I think woodturning
will become a part time income once I do. I like talking to people
about what I have made and I like making a few bucks in the process.
But I don't think I will ever do this as my sole income. I hope that I
have learned some lessons from my first business so I don't get burned
out again. One thing I like about woodturning over photography is that
no one has to see my work in progress or even know what I am working
on until it is done. If you are taking pictures of people they are
there with you while you are creating. That can be annoying. But
woodworking lets me work at my own pace without someone looking over my
shoulder the whole time. So far the only pressure I feel is that which
I put on myself.

Hope this meandering story helps,
Ted

I'd like to thank all of those who responded with comments. Many were
confirmations of what I already thought while others brought to mind new
ideas. Having a hobby transform itself over time into a job may work in some
cases, that is, still remain enjoyable. I do like the idea of donating to
churches and such for the purpose of raffling. I did have an idea of
turning a few dozen candle holders and giving them to my church for gifts to
parents of the newly baptized. I suspect that before we have to rent
storage for the bowls and other output I will have ample opportunities to
give away/donate items. Now if some of the folks would like to actually
purchase, well there is that new bowl gouge I saw on the Packard site ....

thanks,
-k

I have nothing against shows or people doing them. Its just that I get
so little time to do turning (maybe 1 day a week if I'm lucky) that I
can't see myself doing them.

George wrote:
"william kossack" wrote in message
...

The idea of standing at a craft show table all weekend does not interest
me. I would rather spend my time making sawdust.



As soon as you find out that painters think they're the only "artists" in a
show, and start to hang out with the rest, there's good company. You also
meet a lot of other folks who "could do it too," or even "better" there.
One or two of them in any show are even turners. Leaving the kids - whose
college the sales pay - to watch the stand, and shooting the breeze with
wood folk and potters makes a great day or weekend.

Though you may see them only a couple times a year, you get to see the
pictures and hear the stories over breakfast or dinner, and share a cuppa at
the campground. This year I have pictures of my grandsons, who were only
burden to their mother a year ago September.

On Wed, 25 May 2005 15:33:06 -0500, "Kevin" wrote:


I'd like to thank all of those who responded with comments. Many were
confirmations of what I already thought while others brought to mind new
ideas. Having a hobby transform itself over time into a job may work in some
cases, that is, still remain enjoyable. I do like the idea of donating to
churches and such for the purpose of raffling. I did have an idea of
turning a few dozen candle holders and giving them to my church for gifts to
parents of the newly baptized. I suspect that before we have to rent
storage for the bowls and other output I will have ample opportunities to
give away/donate items. Now if some of the folks would like to actually
purchase, well there is that new bowl gouge I saw on the Packard site ....

thanks,
-k

IMHO, that's a good choice...
The thing that I hope that I never give up is not only the enjoyment of turning,
but the freedom to take as much or as little time on a turning as I want to..

I just don't think it would be much fun to be "on the clock" and be worrying
about spending too much time on a bowl or something to be profitable.. YMMV


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

All interesting comments. From my corner of the shop. I once started
carving shore birds and ducks as a hobby in my leisure time --loved it--
had the house full, gave them to all my friends who expressed an
interest, then one day someone said "what would you charge to make me a
pair of these". OK, seemed fair enough, then it was "I need three of
this and so, and I want them for Christmas presents (it's 15 November)".
suddenly I was overwhelmed with commitments I didn't want to meet, it
became a chore, I got grouchy (I'm told), and finally my wife said "I
think you should just quit the bird business.

Bottom line, I haven't carved a bird in 5 years, except in secret - and
to meet my specs and on my schedule. Commercializing ruined a good hobby
--took all the fun out of it!!

jrw


mac davis wrote:
On Wed, 25 May 2005 15:33:06 -0500, "Kevin" wrote:


I'd like to thank all of those who responded with comments. Many were
confirmations of what I already thought while others brought to mind new
ideas. Having a hobby transform itself over time into a job may work in some
cases, that is, still remain enjoyable. I do like the idea of donating to
churches and such for the purpose of raffling. I did have an idea of
turning a few dozen candle holders and giving them to my church for gifts to
parents of the newly baptized. I suspect that before we have to rent
storage for the bowls and other output I will have ample opportunities to
give away/donate items. Now if some of the folks would like to actually
purchase, well there is that new bowl gouge I saw on the Packard site ....

thanks,
-k


IMHO, that's a good choice...
The thing that I hope that I never give up is not only the enjoyment of turning,
but the freedom to take as much or as little time on a turning as I want to..

I just don't think it would be much fun to be "on the clock" and be worrying
about spending too much time on a bowl or something to be profitable.. YMMV


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

Big John wrote:
All interesting comments. From my corner of the shop. I once started
carving shore birds and ducks as a hobby in my leisure time --loved it--
had the house full, gave them to all my friends who expressed an
interest, then one day someone said "what would you charge to make me a
pair of these". OK, seemed fair enough, then it was "I need three of
this and so, and I want them for Christmas presents (it's 15 November)".
suddenly I was overwhelmed with commitments I didn't want to meet, it
became a chore, I got grouchy (I'm told), and finally my wife said "I
think you should just quit the bird business.

Bottom line, I haven't carved a bird in 5 years, except in secret - and
to meet my specs and on my schedule. Commercializing ruined a good hobby
--took all the fun out of it!!

jrw


mac davis wrote:

On Wed, 25 May 2005 15:33:06 -0500, "Kevin" wrote:


I'd like to thank all of those who responded with comments. Many were
confirmations of what I already thought while others brought to mind new
ideas. Having a hobby transform itself over time into a job may work
in some
cases, that is, still remain enjoyable. I do like the idea of
donating to
churches and such for the purpose of raffling. I did have an idea of
turning a few dozen candle holders and giving them to my church for
gifts to
parents of the newly baptized. I suspect that before we have to rent
storage for the bowls and other output I will have ample
opportunities to
give away/donate items. Now if some of the folks would like to
actually
purchase, well there is that new bowl gouge I saw on the Packard site
....

thanks,
-k


IMHO, that's a good choice...
The thing that I hope that I never give up is not only the enjoyment
of turning,
but the freedom to take as much or as little time on a turning as I
want to..

I just don't think it would be much fun to be "on the clock" and be
worrying
about spending too much time on a bowl or something to be profitable..
YMMV


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing
I do sell my work but I do not take orders for special items and I turn
only what I want to. I did take an order once but I did not like the
deadline commitment nor turning some design that I was not to fond of
doing. I may not make a living this way but I'm happy with what I'm
doing and I get a bit of extra cash for wood, tools and such things.

On Sat, 28 May 2005 23:46:49 GMT, Ralph wrote:

I do sell my work but I do not take orders for special items and I turn
only what I want to. I did take an order once but I did not like the
deadline commitment nor turning some design that I was not to fond of
doing. I may not make a living this way but I'm happy with what I'm
doing and I get a bit of extra cash for wood, tools and such things.

I've got a comission for some flatwork right now from a guy at work,
and it's pretty fun. He wanted a custom samarai-sword display case
for his apartment, so I said sure- but set a number of rules for the
job to make sure that there were no unrealistic expectations.

First, I do the design and choose the wood- he gets to give a thumbs
up or down, but can't pull something funny like wanting a butternut
frame with red oak panels, with all the parts slathered in cherry
stain or something equally unappealing.

Second, he is not allowed to tell anyone what he paid for it. If he
tells anyone, any further projects for him get an automatic 500%
markup. (This can burn you badly if you underprice something because
it seemed like a fun project- pretty soon you're doing production work
for WalMart prices if you're not careful.)

And Third, he gets it when he gets it. If it takes a year, it'll take
a year (it won't, but that's the deal) and the final price will be set
when the project is sitting in front of him. If he doesn't want it
when it's done, it's going to become a DVD cabinet in my living room
(see rule #1, and you'll understand why I wanted that one!)

Now the useful thing in this case is that the guy has tastes similar
to my own, and he approved the first plan right off the bat, which
also happened to be the plan for the aformentioned DVD cabinet, minus
the shelves, and with some minimal mounting hardware added. But even
if the situation was completely different, the same rules apply. I've
found that setting a couple of rules, and making it very clear that
they must be honored for any work to be done has been very beneficial
for me. Not only does it set up the proper relationship between the
client and myself, but it also has an instantaneous 'artist' effect-
people expect an artist to behave a little oddly, and are generally
willing to wait for their comission, lest they get a dose of that
fabled *artistic temperment* we've all heard of at one time or
another. When they're just looking for a standard widget with a spec
sheet, that's when the trouble starts.

It's no way to run a business, but it makes for a good hobby.

Prometheus wrote in
:

snip
It's no way to run a business, but it makes for a good hobby.


It may be _exactly_ the way to run a business, under the right
circumstances. Just so long as you don't expect to make a million dollars
right away.

If anybody can do it, then let them get just anybody. If they want you,
they take you on your terms. If _you_ can afford your terms, then things
will work out just fine.

Actually, that sounds rather like a company with whom I worked for some
time.

Patriarch

On Sun, 29 May 2005 23:20:16 -0500, Patriarch
wrote:

Prometheus wrote in
:

snip
It's no way to run a business, but it makes for a good hobby.


It may be _exactly_ the way to run a business, under the right
circumstances. Just so long as you don't expect to make a million dollars
right away.

It works well for me, anyhow. I don't expect to make anything from
it, really- so I can focus on product quality. Maybe someday I'll get
to be like one of those really fine furniture makers, and then the
investment will pay off.

If anybody can do it, then let them get just anybody. If they want you,
they take you on your terms. If _you_ can afford your terms, then things
will work out just fine.

I sure can- that's what the day job is for!

Actually, that sounds rather like a company with whom I worked for some
time.

On Sat, 28 May 2005 23:46:49 GMT, Ralph wrote:


I do sell my work but I do not take orders for special items and I turn
only what I want to. I did take an order once but I did not like the
deadline commitment nor turning some design that I was not to fond of
doing. I may not make a living this way but I'm happy with what I'm
doing and I get a bit of extra cash for wood, tools and such things.

yep.. excellent compromise...
I had someone that I'd never met walk by my house and see the turned stuff all
over the gar.. shop and ask if they could look around..
she offered me $35 for a plum burl bowl (you may have seen it in ABWP) and I
accepted like a shot..
My mindset was something like.. "how cool is that? She gets a bowl that she
likes and I got back almost exactly what I spent for the 1/4 cord of plum!"

A friend liked a few of the small goblets I made and offered me $120 for a set
of 6... they were about 4" high and out of plum firewood...
I turned him down for many reasons, but the main 2 were that it wouldn't be much
fun (if I had the skill level or a duplicator) and I like the freedom of
deciding what the piece of wood I mount next will "turn" into..



mac

Please remove splinters before emailing