After starting the recent thread about small vans that can carry 8x4
sheets, thanks to the many helpful suggestions and insights, I
conclude that what I probably want is a reasonable-sized hatchback
that will take 8x4 sheets on a roof rack.

Why a hatchback?
(a) more streamlined for long trips and driving at speed.
(b) lighter, so more economical
(c) I get the impression that some hatchbacks can actually take
larger objects than estate cars (if you drive them with the hatch
open.)
(d) better handling because less top-heavy (arguably)

So I'm looking for a hatchback (around 10 years old) for £1500 or so,
that is:

(a) reliable
(b) cheap to run
(c) cheap to repair
(d) easy to get spares for
(e) good acceleration (4x4 would be great, espec. for wet roads)
(f) handles really well on bends and in crosswinds
(g) takes large objects
(h) won't give me me a bad back! (seats with good small-of-back
support)

Any suggestions?

As for my very occasional need to move house, and take furniture to
the tip, I reckon it makes more sense to hire a Transit for one day,
as needed. I just can't seem to stomach the thought of using a transit
for everyday driving. My budget doesn't stretch to having a car *and*
a large van.

Many thanks

K

In message , Kat
writes

So I'm looking for a hatchback (around 10 years old) for £1500 or so,
that is:

(a) reliable
(b) cheap to run
(c) cheap to repair
(d) easy to get spares for
(e) good acceleration (4x4 would be great, espec. for wet roads)
(f) handles really well on bends and in crosswinds
(g) takes large objects
(h) won't give me me a bad back! (seats with good small-of-back
support)

Any suggestions?

A TARDIS?

I'm not sure I'd agree with your point about some hatches being bigger
inside than their equivalent estate versions.

I'd say a Mondeo would be ideal but I'd consider the estate. The Mondeo
is particularly comfortable with excellent seats. Passats are good but
not so cheap to maintain. If you really need 4x4 then what about a
Subaru Legacy. Not so easy to find but within your budget.

--
Paul Giverin

British Jet Engine Website http://www.britjet.co.uk

"Kat" wrote in message
...

After starting the recent thread about small vans that can carry 8x4
sheets, thanks to the many helpful suggestions and insights, I
conclude that what I probably want is a reasonable-sized hatchback
that will take 8x4 sheets on a roof rack.

Why a hatchback?
(a) more streamlined for long trips and driving at speed.
(b) lighter, so more economical
(c) I get the impression that some hatchbacks can actually take
larger objects than estate cars (if you drive them with the hatch
open.)
(d) better handling because less top-heavy (arguably)

So I'm looking for a hatchback (around 10 years old) for £1500 or so,
that is:

(a) reliable
(b) cheap to run
(c) cheap to repair
(d) easy to get spares for
(e) good acceleration (4x4 would be great, espec. for wet roads)
(f) handles really well on bends and in crosswinds
(g) takes large objects
(h) won't give me me a bad back! (seats with good small-of-back
support)

Any suggestions?

As for my very occasional need to move house, and take furniture to
the tip, I reckon it makes more sense to hire a Transit for one day,
as needed. I just can't seem to stomach the thought of using a transit
for everyday driving. My budget doesn't stretch to having a car *and*
a large van.

Many thanks


sierra 4x4 estate

Kat wrote:

After starting the recent thread about small vans that can carry 8x4
sheets, thanks to the many helpful suggestions and insights, I
conclude that what I probably want is a reasonable-sized hatchback
that will take 8x4 sheets on a roof rack.

Why a hatchback?
(a) more streamlined for long trips and driving at speed.

Unlikely to be much difference... will depend on model a bit.

(b) lighter, so more economical

ditto

(c) I get the impression that some hatchbacks can actually take
larger objects than estate cars (if you drive them with the hatch
open.)

doubt it - given you can leave the tailgate partially open on an estate
if you really want.

(d) better handling because less top-heavy (arguably)

will depend on model. An estate based on a decent chassis design will
piddle all over a mediocre hatchback.

I think your requirements would be better met with an estate.

So I'm looking for a hatchback (around 10 years old) for ï½£1500 or so,
that is:

(a) reliable
(b) cheap to run
(c) cheap to repair
(d) easy to get spares for
(e) good acceleration (4x4 would be great, espec. for wet roads)
(f) handles really well on bends and in crosswinds
(g) takes large objects
(h) won't give me me a bad back! (seats with good small-of-back
support)

Any suggestions?

Have a look at one of the old JD powers surveys for the era, see what
was rated best by their owners.

(or in keeping with my previous suggestions, perhaps I ought to say
Subaru Imprezza, does a, d, e, f, and h in spades, c will depend on how
you break it, b will be ok but more thirsty on the juice than some
alternatives. A turbo version will do e, and f in ways you think defy
the laws of physics, but you may not be able to find one in your price
range).

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article ,
mrcheerful
. wrote:
sierra 4x4 estate

Thought he wanted something reliable?

--
*Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
mrcheerful
. wrote:
sierra 4x4 estate

Thought he wanted something reliable?


I thought the OP was female?

My 4x4 is perfectly reliable, only failure has been fuel pump and that had
the grace to break at a convenient place and cost a tenner for a second-hand
one, try and get a Subaru (for instance) fuel pump, full stop, let alone a
Tuesday afternoon from an ordinary breakers yard. To my mind, spend 500
quid on the car and you have money to spend fixing whatever is needed to get
a workhorse that is fun too, and won't break the bank for repairs, probably
insurance is cheap too.

mrcheerful

On Sun, 2 Jan 2005 14:28:31 +0000, Paul Giverin
wrote:

In message , Kat
writes

So I'm looking for a hatchback (around 10 years old) for £1500 or so,
that is:

(a) reliable
(b) cheap to run
(c) cheap to repair
(d) easy to get spares for
(e) good acceleration (4x4 would be great, espec. for wet roads)
(f) handles really well on bends and in crosswinds
(g) takes large objects
(h) won't give me me a bad back! (seats with good small-of-back
support)

Any suggestions?

A TARDIS?

I'm not sure I'd agree with your point about some hatches being bigger
inside than their equivalent estate versions.

I didn't say that. Read again.

I'd say a Mondeo would be ideal but I'd consider the estate. The Mondeo
is particularly comfortable with excellent seats.

Yes - that's a possibility. Thanks

K

On Sun, 02 Jan 2005 14:38:29 GMT, "mrcheerful
.." wrote:


sierra 4x4 estate

Thanks for the suggestion. A few years ago I was keen to buy one of
those, but they were hard to find even back then. I ended up with a
Honda Prelude - which was nice till the sills went.

K

On Sun, 02 Jan 2005 14:59:35 GMT, "mrcheerful
.." wrote:


I thought the OP was female?

No - male actually.

My 4x4 is perfectly reliable, only failure has been fuel pump and that had
the grace to break at a convenient place and cost a tenner for a second-hand
one, try and get a Subaru (for instance) fuel pump, full stop, let alone a
Tuesday afternoon from an ordinary breakers yard. To my mind, spend 500
quid on the car and you have money to spend fixing whatever is needed to get
a workhorse that is fun too, and won't break the bank for repairs, probably
insurance is cheap too.

That's pretty much my philosophy too, though I'd stretch to £1500 if I
think it'll buy me more reliability and/or a car that's more fun to
drive. I'm keen to get something that won't get rusting sills. I'm
tired of getting caught out by that problem.

K

On Sun, 02 Jan 2005 14:13:50 GMT, (Kat) wrote:


After starting the recent thread about small vans that can carry 8x4
sheets, thanks to the many helpful suggestions and insights, I
conclude that what I probably want is a reasonable-sized hatchback
that will take 8x4 sheets on a roof rack.

Why a hatchback?
(a) more streamlined for long trips and driving at speed.
(b) lighter, so more economical
(c) I get the impression that some hatchbacks can actually take
larger objects than estate cars (if you drive them with the hatch
open.)
(d) better handling because less top-heavy (arguably)

So I'm looking for a hatchback (around 10 years old) for £1500 or so,
that is:

(a) reliable
(b) cheap to run
(c) cheap to repair
(d) easy to get spares for
(e) good acceleration (4x4 would be great, espec. for wet roads)
(f) handles really well on bends and in crosswinds
(g) takes large objects
(h) won't give me me a bad back! (seats with good small-of-back
support)

Any suggestions?

As for my very occasional need to move house, and take furniture to
the tip, I reckon it makes more sense to hire a Transit for one day,
as needed. I just can't seem to stomach the thought of using a transit
for everyday driving. My budget doesn't stretch to having a car *and*
a large van.

Many thanks

K


Have you considered a trailer, mine takes 8x4 sheets, my 307 can tow
it (legally), without any great greif up a 1:8 with a tonne bag of
aggrigate in it.

The 307 tows better at it maximum load than my 4x4 Izusu did at 1/2
its max, and the Izusu with 2/3 of max was a real pig, requieing low
ratio to get a 1.5 tonne mini digger up a 1:8. The 307 will tow a
micro digger in my trailer - no problems

Rick

On Sun, 02 Jan 2005 14:44:16 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

Kat wrote:

After starting the recent thread about small vans that can carry 8x4
sheets, thanks to the many helpful suggestions and insights, I
conclude that what I probably want is a reasonable-sized hatchback
that will take 8x4 sheets on a roof rack.

Why a hatchback?
(a) more streamlined for long trips and driving at speed.

Unlikely to be much difference... will depend on model a bit.

(b) lighter, so more economical

ditto

(c) I get the impression that some hatchbacks can actually take
larger objects than estate cars (if you drive them with the hatch
open.)

doubt it - given you can leave the tailgate partially open on an estate
if you really want.

Thanks for the unput. Driving with the back door of an estate open
enable you to carry longer objects only. Driving with a hatchback's
hatch open will enable you to carry longer *and* taller objacts in
some cases. See what I'm saying?

(d) better handling because less top-heavy (arguably)

will depend on model. An estate based on a decent chassis design will
piddle all over a mediocre hatchback.

I think your requirements would be better met with an estate.

So I'm looking for a hatchback (around 10 years old) for ï½£1500 or so,
that is:

(a) reliable
(b) cheap to run
(c) cheap to repair
(d) easy to get spares for
(e) good acceleration (4x4 would be great, espec. for wet roads)
(f) handles really well on bends and in crosswinds
(g) takes large objects
(h) won't give me me a bad back! (seats with good small-of-back
support)

Any suggestions?

Have a look at one of the old JD powers surveys for the era, see what
was rated best by their owners.

(or in keeping with my previous suggestions, perhaps I ought to say
Subaru Imprezza, does a, d, e, f, and h in spades, c will depend on how
you break it, b will be ok but more thirsty on the juice than some
alternatives. A turbo version will do e, and f in ways you think defy
the laws of physics, but you may not be able to find one in your price
range).

I must say, I am interested in the Impreza and Legacy. Funny thing
is, you'd never guess their performance characteristics by their
looks, would you? Can you clarify a bit more about the spares
availability? I'm dead wary about buying something where a headlamp
glass costs £50 or more and can't be found in a local scrapyard.

K

On Sun, 02 Jan 2005 15:16:34 GMT, Rick Dipper
wrote:


Have you considered a trailer, mine takes 8x4 sheets, my 307 can tow
it (legally), without any great greif up a 1:8 with a tonne bag of
aggrigate in it.

The 307 tows better at it maximum load than my 4x4 Izusu did at 1/2
its max, and the Izusu with 2/3 of max was a real pig, requieing low
ratio to get a 1.5 tonne mini digger up a 1:8. The 307 will tow a
micro digger in my trailer - no problems

Rick

Hi Rick - Yes, it was suggested in the other thread. The amount I'm
going to need it, I can't justify buying one. Hiring one is an option,
but I figure that hiring a Transit van would be a more convenient
option.

K

On Sun, 02 Jan 2005 14:13:50 GMT, (Kat) wrote:


After starting the recent thread about small vans that can carry 8x4
sheets, thanks to the many helpful suggestions and insights, I
conclude that what I probably want is a reasonable-sized hatchback
that will take 8x4 sheets on a roof rack.


Not exactly what you were asking for, but Citroen Berlingo MPVs aren't
bad. Very car like to drive, but with bags of room with the back seats
right down. Most of the body is galvanised, so few corrosion problems,
the 1.6i petrol is 'fairly' nippy, or the diesel 1.9 if you want
economy. Even Jeremy Clarkson raved about them, and sent sales soaring
aiui.

Paul Giverin wrote:
In message , Kat
writes
snip
(a) reliable
(b) cheap to run
(c) cheap to repair
(d) easy to get spares for
(e) good acceleration (4x4 would be great, espec. for wet roads)
(f) handles really well on bends and in crosswinds
(g) takes large objects
(h) won't give me me a bad back! (seats with good small-of-back
support)

Any suggestions?

A TARDIS?

Spectacularly fails on a, c, d.
Very good on h, as it's got bedrooms.
Does it have cargo doors?

On 02 Jan 2005 15:47:07 GMT, Ian Stirling
wrote:


A TARDIS?

Spectacularly fails on a, c, d.
Very good on h, as it's got bedrooms.
Does it have cargo doors?

Trouble is, they always fail the MOT test - even when brand new, so
that one's out.

K

In uk.d-i-y, Kat wrote:
So I'm looking for a hatchback (around 10 years old) for £1500 or so,
that is:

(a) reliable
(b) cheap to run
(c) cheap to repair
(d) easy to get spares for
(e) good acceleration (4x4 would be great, espec. for wet roads)
(f) handles really well on bends and in crosswinds
(g) takes large objects
(h) won't give me me a bad back! (seats with good small-of-back
support)

Any suggestions?

Audi RS4?

Oops, you said £1500 not £15000, didn't you? Not sure it would be cheap
to run or repair either.

--
Mike Barnes

In article , "Kat" Katch661
@ydbttvou.com says...
On Sun, 02 Jan 2005 14:59:35 GMT, "mrcheerful
." wrote:
Tuesday afternoon from an ordinary breakers yard. To my mind, spend 500
quid on the car and you have money to spend fixing whatever is needed to get
a workhorse that is fun too, and won't break the bank for repairs, probably
insurance is cheap too.

That's pretty much my philosophy too, though I'd stretch to £1500 if I
think it'll buy me more reliability and/or a car that's more fun to
drive. I'm keen to get something that won't get rusting sills. I'm
tired of getting caught out by that problem.

Buy a MIG welder and an angle grinder, learn to weld and it won't
bother you so much :-)

Kat wrote:

Thanks for the unput. Driving with the back door of an estate open
enable you to carry longer objects only. Driving with a hatchback's
hatch open will enable you to carry longer *and* taller objacts in
some cases. See what I'm saying?

Another point to consider which I don't think anyone's mentioned yet -
think about whether you want an estate/hatchback with/without a rear lip
on the tailgate. If you have one, there's the advantage that your boot
contents stay reasonably together and don't fall out every time you
open the tailgate; but it also means you have to lift heavy objects
(like bags of sand or plaster) over the lip each time. A big
consideration if you're worried about your back, as you say. I think
most if not all hatchbacks will have the lip (is that the right word??!)

We have one car with a flat tailgate, one with a 12" lip - give me the
flat one anytime.

David

The message
from "Dave Plowman (News)" contains these words:

sierra 4x4 estate

Thought he wanted something reliable?

I ran one (the same one) for 11 years and found it reliable. It also
handled better than my current Audi Coupe.

The Estates are however getting a bit long in the tooth. The last ones
were made in 1989. The hatchbacks soldiered on till 1993 so even the
newest of those would be over 10 years old.

--
Roger

In article ,
Kat wrote:
A TARDIS?

Trouble is, they always fail the MOT test - even when brand new, so
that one's out.

Never needs one. Simply time travels so it's always less than three years
old...

--
*Consciousness: That annoying time between naps.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Sim C. wrote:
On Sun, 02 Jan 2005 14:13:50 GMT, (Kat) wrote:
what I probably want is a reasonable-sized hatchback
that will take 8x4 sheets on a roof rack.


The following was my response to a similar thread in april 2003 (can't
get the link to work, anyone else stuggle with the new google groups
search engine?)

CITROEN BX 1.7TZD 1992

Huge flat load area with plastic runners on the carpet to protect it,
integral roof bars, excellent self leveling suspension for heavy loads
(I just bought 45 120 x 90 foil backed plasterboards home in one),
adjustable suspension height for bumpy builders yards and easy loading
(lower it right down to load/unload the roof rack, just pump it right
up to unload the heavy stuff out of the boot)


60x40 split rear seats


low insurance, and as its mostly plastic, you get about 50mpg!
(obviously without the plasterboards in!)


Spend the rest on some more DIY!


You can now pick one up for =A3500! Mine is still going strong. It has a
towbar and regularly tows my lark dinghy and 4 mountain bikes while
loaded with the family and enough luggage to sink a battleship. It's
done 143000 miles so far and used no oil - sailed through MOT in
November at no cost.

Philip

On Sun, 02 Jan 2005 16:58:22 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Kat wrote:
A TARDIS?

Trouble is, they always fail the MOT test - even when brand new, so
that one's out.

Never needs one. Simply time travels so it's always less than three years
old...

The time travelling feature is definitely a plus-point. I could time
travel to May next year when all the work is done and I don't need it
any more. Where can I get one?

On 2 Jan 2005 09:08:55 -0800, "Philip"
wrote:


The following was my response to a similar thread in april 2003 (can't
get the link to work, anyone else stuggle with the new google groups
search engine?)

Not since they "improved" it, just lately ;-( Someone should have
told them:" If it ain't broke, don't fix it".

K

On Sun, 02 Jan 2005 16:41:21 GMT, Lobster
wrote:

Kat wrote:

Thanks for the unput. Driving with the back door of an estate open
enable you to carry longer objects only. Driving with a hatchback's
hatch open will enable you to carry longer *and* taller objacts in
some cases. See what I'm saying?

Another point to consider which I don't think anyone's mentioned yet -
think about whether you want an estate/hatchback with/without a rear lip
on the tailgate. If you have one, there's the advantage that your boot
contents stay reasonably together and don't fall out every time you
open the tailgate; but it also means you have to lift heavy objects
(like bags of sand or plaster) over the lip each time. A big
consideration if you're worried about your back, as you say. I think
most if not all hatchbacks will have the lip (is that the right word??!)

We have one car with a flat tailgate, one with a 12" lip - give me the
flat one anytime.

David

Thanks for the input. A "lip" certainly has its advantages. When I had
a hatchback I sometimes carried large objects with the hatch open. The
lip preventsed all my little bits of shopping and other junk spilling
out. Of course, it would be quite easy to make an artificial "lip" out
of plywood or something. Then, if you have a lipless car, you have the
advantage of choosing whether to drive with or without the lip in
place. On thing I like about hatchbacks is is that if you do drive
with the hatch open (to acommodate a large object), the open door
doesn't increase the overal length of the vehicle. Whereas an open
estate car tailgate usually sticks out beyond the normal length of the
car. Admittedly, though, the internal carrying space in an estate is
usually longer than a hatchback. The ideal car, in my mind, would be
one with a long gently-sloping hatch that would open to an almost
vertical position. You could then carry tall objects sticking upwards
out of the hatch opening, as well as protruding backwards to the rear
if necessary. What's more, when the hatch is shut, it would be more
streamlined than most cars. I saw such a car just the other day, but
couldn't see the make or model from where I was sitting.

K

"Kat" wrote in message
...

After starting the recent thread about small vans that can carry 8x4
sheets, thanks to the many helpful suggestions and insights, I
conclude that what I probably want is a reasonable-sized hatchback
that will take 8x4 sheets on a roof rack.

Why a hatchback?
(a) more streamlined for long trips and driving at speed.
(b) lighter, so more economical
(c) I get the impression that some hatchbacks can actually take
larger objects than estate cars (if you drive them with the hatch
open.)
(d) better handling because less top-heavy (arguably)

So I'm looking for a hatchback (around 10 years old) for £1500 or so,
that is:

(a) reliable
(b) cheap to run
(c) cheap to repair
(d) easy to get spares for
(e) good acceleration (4x4 would be great, espec. for wet roads)
(f) handles really well on bends and in crosswinds
(g) takes large objects
(h) won't give me me a bad back! (seats with good small-of-back
support)

Any suggestions?

Vauxhall Cavalier. Was quite a good size which was one reason it displaced
Fords in many fleets. No 4*4 that I recall but it handled okay and had very
good seats.

On Sun, 02 Jan 2005 17:42:28 GMT, (Kat) strung
together this:

Where can I get one?

There's more than likely one on eBay.
--

SJW
Please reply to group or use 'usenet' in email subject

On Sun, 2 Jan 2005 20:33:22 -0000, "Mike" strung
together this:

Vauxhall Cavalier. Was quite a good size which was one reason it displaced
Fords in many fleets. No 4*4 that I recall but it handled okay and had very
good seats.

There was the GSi Turbo 4x4 from 91 onwards, I think.

--

SJW
Please reply to group or use 'usenet' in email subject

In message , Lobster
writes
Kat wrote:

Thanks for the unput. Driving with the back door of an estate open
enable you to carry longer objects only. Driving with a hatchback's
hatch open will enable you to carry longer *and* taller objacts in
some cases. See what I'm saying?

Another point to consider which I don't think anyone's mentioned yet -
think about whether you want an estate/hatchback with/without a rear
lip on the tailgate. If you have one, there's the advantage that your
boot contents stay reasonably together and don't fall out every time
you open the tailgate; but it also means you have to lift heavy objects
(like bags of sand or plaster) over the lip each time. A big
consideration if you're worried about your back, as you say. I think
most if not all hatchbacks will have the lip (is that the right word??!)

We have one car with a flat tailgate, one with a 12" lip - give me the
flat one anytime.

David

A split tailgate was one feature which convinced me to buy my current
car, Fiat Marea estate.
Normally the "bumper" part forms a 5" high lip to keep stuff from
rolling out of the boot. But it drops down to give a flat load space
when need. I've carted long timber (16') back from the BM by leaving
just the lower tailgate open with the timber sticking out the back.
Very useful workhorse car last year when I was building "The Shed" (tm),
materials kit boxes, tool boxes, saw bench, mitre saws, more toolboxes
all transported with ease.

My other life (regular mountain biking trips) means I wouldn't now
consider anything other than an estate car, pref a TD.

--
steve

On 2 Jan 2005 09:08:55 -0800, "Philip"
strung together this:

CITROEN BX 1.7TZD 1992

I'd go for something similar, if I got a decent one. I've just got a
2000 Laguna estate for work and the back sinks quite a bit even with
just the tools and drills in the boot.

The Citroen Xantia\BX\XM has the height adjustable suspension so is
more suited to carrying loads. My Dad's just got a '94 XM 2.5TD and
it's got acres of space, and the rear end is level when it's full or
empty.

He's had a '95 Xantia 1.9TD since new and clocked up quite few miles
without any major costs over the years. Before that he had a 1988 BX
17RD (1.7 Diesel) Which did 185,000 miles in between new and
replacement with the Xantia and that was only got rid of because the
spheres were just starting to get expensive to maintain.
--

SJW
Please reply to group or use 'usenet' in email subject

Considering only buying and running costs, an old Metro is the only
small hatchback that I know of which will carry an 8 x 4 sheet
internally--much to my surprise!

Regards
Capitol

"Capitol" wrote in message
...
Considering only buying and running costs, an old Metro is the only small
hatchback that I know of which will carry an 8 x 4 sheet internally--much
to my surprise!

Hmm I had an old metro - went all over Europe in it, the horror the horror
:-) - anyway there's no way you could fit in an 8X4 internally. Do you mean
flat or diagonal and sticking out the back? Or maybe sliced up into little
pieces? :-)

Sam

"Sam" wrote in message
...

"Capitol" wrote in message
...
Considering only buying and running costs, an old Metro is the only small
hatchback that I know of which will carry an 8 x 4 sheet internally--much
to my surprise!

Hmm I had an old metro - went all over Europe in it, the horror the horror
:-) - anyway there's no way you could fit in an 8X4 internally. Do you
mean flat or diagonal and sticking out the back? Or maybe sliced up into
little pieces? :-)


straight out the back, no problem, metros take almost anything

Kat wrote:

doubt it - given you can leave the tailgate partially open on an estate
if you really want.


Thanks for the unput. Driving with the back door of an estate open
enable you to carry longer objects only. Driving with a hatchback's
hatch open will enable you to carry longer *and* taller objacts in
some cases. See what I'm saying?

Yup see what you are saying... personally I have never found the need,
if it does not go in, then it goes on (the roof rack). I have never been
fond of driving round with boot/hatch lids flapping.

I must say, I am interested in the Impreza and Legacy. Funny thing
is, you'd never guess their performance characteristics by their

With the Legacy then no, even the Turbo version is very discrete in its
standard trim.

See:

http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~1amiga/legacyhome.htm

(I have a saloon, not unlike the white one in the first picture, but
with the colour and the wheels of the estate pictured below).

It is probably fair to say that there are only a few styling cues that
give the game away. The non turbo one lacks the spoiler, the air scoop
on the bonnet, and the factory fitted front fogs. The tyres are lower
profile and wider.

With the Impreza, then its is a bit more obvious (especially on later
models) with its large "carry handle" spoiler, bonnet vents etc. They
have acquired the reputation of being quick, partly because the majority
you see are Turbos, with sales of the conventional car being quite low.
(they do a "sport" version now, with the Turbo "eye candy" but no turbo,
for people who want the pose but not the group 17 insurance)

(performance of the non turbo models is certainly good for the class,
but probably no better that the equivalent Mundano / Focus)

looks, would you? Can you clarify a bit more about the spares
availability? I'm dead wary about buying something where a headlamp
glass costs �50 or more and can't be found in a local scrapyard.

Well I have had various Subarus over a 20 year time frame, and have
never really considered parts availability to be a big issue. I can only
think of a couple of occasions where I have needed to wait a couple of
days for a part. I does help to have access to a dealer that knows the
cars though. Generally the situation has got better with time as the
brand profile has risen (I no longer have conversations with people that
go "What do you drive?", "Oh Subaru, is that made by Nissan"!)

Most things that you will need at a service are "off the shelf" bits,
and are available from multiple sources anyway. Some other things
(exhausts etc) are easy to get, but don't expect a quick fit to have one
on the shelf without a bit of advanced warning (bit of a non issue - the
exhausts are SS and last 12 years+ anyway). Most glass repairers will
have no difficulty supplying a windscreen. Break discs, radiators etc
are also available from recon factories.

If you like getting bits from scappies then it is really a case of pot
luck.

After market parts for Imprezas are widely available because a whole
industry has sprung up round them for performance tuning etc.

http://www.strictlycars.com/topsubarusites/index.html

Something like a headlamp glass however could still be pricey if you go
for a original part.

Having said all that; given the price range you are looking at, you
would probably need to go for a non turbo Legacy anyway, since Imprezas
tend to hold their value very well. Even a Legacy turbo at 1500 quid
will be hard to find.

If you really want a 4WD car (as opposed to off roader) in your price
range, then there are relatively few other options that I can think of.
You may find a suitable Audi quatro, or the Sierra others have
mentioned. There was a cavalier that never worked in 4WD mode, there
were also things like the Toyota Tercell which was a dog.


--
Cheers,

John.

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Kat wrote:

Thanks for the suggestion. A few years ago I was keen to buy one of
those, but they were hard to find even back then. I ended up with a
Honda Prelude - which was nice till the sills went.

I have a spare one of those (Prelude - 4WS Limited Edition) if you
want... sills are OK on it as well!


--
Cheers,

John.

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"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Kat wrote:

doubt it - given you can leave the tailgate partially open on an estate
if you really want.


Thanks for the unput. Driving with the back door of an estate open
enable you to carry longer objects only. Driving with a hatchback's
hatch open will enable you to carry longer *and* taller objacts in
some cases. See what I'm saying?

Yup see what you are saying... personally I have never found the need,
if it does not go in, then it goes on (the roof rack). I have never been
fond of driving round with boot/hatch lids flapping.

I must say, I am interested in the Impreza and Legacy. Funny thing
is, you'd never guess their performance characteristics by their

Note that the Impreza, even the five door, seems to have been designed to be
'almost' big enough to carry most things. Note that in the four door the
seats stil fold very flat and the rear screen is quite high up so there is
quite a lot of load space. It is a great car but if you need space the
Legacy is the better choice.


(performance of the non turbo models is certainly good for the class,
but probably no better that the equivalent Mundano / Focus)

The lack of a 4*4 Focus is a problem though.


Can you clarify a bit more about the spares
availability? I'm dead wary about buying something where a headlamp
glass costs ?50 or more and can't be found in a local scrapyard.

Subraus rarely need spares. In all my time with them the only thing that
has failed is a clip in the driver door mirror. This failed going over a
speedbump. Apparently this is a common problem that for some reason they
haven't fixed. Perhaps this indicates there are no speedbumps in Japan ?

Where can I get one?

There's more than likely one on eBay.
--
http://tinyurl.com/4jhlk

After starting the recent thread about small vans that can carry 8x4
sheets, thanks to the many helpful suggestions and insights, I
conclude that what I probably want is a reasonable-sized hatchback
that will take 8x4 sheets on a roof rack.

Our old car was a Scenic and the amount of crap that you can fit in it is
amazing. The rear seats fold and/or remove and it has the capacity of a
van. There is no lip at the boot so lifting in and out is easy. More
height than an estate. Should be able to get a '97 for around £1,500 -
£1,700. There are truly loved by owners. 1.6l and only group 6 insurance
too.

We loved ours so much we replaced it with a Grande Scenic - would not
recommend it, btw.

Suzanne

Mike wrote:

Note that the Impreza, even the five door, seems to have been designed to be
'almost' big enough to carry most things. Note that in the four door the
seats stil fold very flat and the rear screen is quite high up so there is
quite a lot of load space. It is a great car but if you need space the
Legacy is the better choice.

I did try out a five door Impreza turbo before I bought my Legacy, and
in the end came to the conclusion that I valued the extra space and
practicality of the bigger car more than the extra performance of the
smaller one. Given that I was moving up from a non turbo Legacy then
jump in performance was huge either way.

Subraus rarely need spares. In all my time with them the only thing that

I would go along with that...

has failed is a clip in the driver door mirror. This failed going over a
speedbump. Apparently this is a common problem that for some reason they
haven't fixed. Perhaps this indicates there are no speedbumps in Japan ?

Either that, or there are so many people you can't actually move!


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Capitol wrote:
Considering only buying and running costs, an old Metro is the only
small hatchback that I know of which will carry an 8 x 4 sheet
internally--much to my surprise!


Continuing my love afair with citroen - I once collected an 8 x 4 sheet
of hardboard home in a citroen dyanne.

I fannyed about for several minutes in the local wickes carpark trying
to figure out how to fit it in. It finally went down through the rolled
back canvas roof and aft into the rear passenger space. Drove home to
greenwich with 3-4 foot poking out the top and no rear visibility -
this was the aspect that caused the crash...

Incidentally - there was a 4x4 citroen BX 1.9GTi. One sold last month
on ebay for =A3100. Spend the remaining =A31,400 on repairs and you could
have a decent car! (this is not a serious suggestion - the repairs are
likely to be v expensive)

finally - Suspension problems are a myth in my experience. I have spent
loads on the car since having it, but only =A3300 on the suspension. The
main problem component on an old BX is the "octopus" which is a series
of rubber low pressure pipes that return LHM suspension fluid to the
reservoir. On an old BX with dodgy suspension - this is the most likely
problem. It will cost =A3100-=A3150 to replace. The other thing to look
out for is the rear trailing arm bearings. if the rear wheels "toe out"
then these need replacing (=A3200). Take it to a specialist garage and
don't listen to the other mechanics who don't really understand the
system. If you buy a car for =A3300-500 when you have a buget of =A31500
- you can afford to have the problems put right at the onset.
Regards

Philip

On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 02:20:59 -0000, "Suz" wrote:

Where can I get one?

There's more than likely one on eBay.
--
http://tinyurl.com/4jhlk

It's OK; I've decided to get one of these:

http://home.att.net/~time-car/

It's got wheels (which is useful), and goes like stink.

K