Having bought my tiny one burger BBQ I am wondering about the practicality
of using it indoors.

I wouldn't use it unventilated, but it has occurred to me that I could put
it on a metal tray on top of the hob directly under the extractor fan.

I know that some restaurants have indoor charcoal grills.
I assume that they have very efficient extractor fans to remove any
combustion products such as CO to the outside atmosphere.

Just speculating if a cooker hood would have enough "suck" to clear the
BBQ fumes.
It certainly seems to clear smoke and steam.


Cheers



Dave R


--
AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64

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On 12/12/2020 17:22, David wrote:
Having bought my tiny one burger BBQ I am wondering about the practicality
of using it indoors.

I wouldn't use it unventilated, but it has occurred to me that I could put
it on a metal tray on top of the hob directly under the extractor fan.

I know that some restaurants have indoor charcoal grills.
I assume that they have very efficient extractor fans to remove any
combustion products such as CO to the outside atmosphere.

Just speculating if a cooker hood would have enough "suck" to clear the
BBQ fumes.
It certainly seems to clear smoke and steam.


Sounds to me like a recipe that leads to a coroner's verdict of
'misadventure' ?

On 12/12/2020 17:22, David wrote:
Having bought my tiny one burger BBQ I am wondering about the practicality
of using it indoors.

I wouldn't use it unventilated, but it has occurred to me that I could put
it on a metal tray on top of the hob directly under the extractor fan.

I know that some restaurants have indoor charcoal grills.
I assume that they have very efficient extractor fans to remove any
combustion products such as CO to the outside atmosphere.

Just speculating if a cooker hood would have enough "suck" to clear the
BBQ fumes.
It certainly seems to clear smoke and steam.


Cheers



Dave R


It will be no worse than a gas ring


--
"I am inclined to tell the truth and dislike people who lie consistently.
This makes me unfit for the company of people of a Left persuasion, and
all women"

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 12/12/2020 17:22, David wrote:
Having bought my tiny one burger BBQ I am wondering about the
practicality
of using it indoors.

I wouldn't use it unventilated, but it has occurred to me that I could
put
it on a metal tray on top of the hob directly under the extractor fan.

I know that some restaurants have indoor charcoal grills.
I assume that they have very efficient extractor fans to remove any
combustion products such as CO to the outside atmosphere.

Just speculating if a cooker hood would have enough "suck" to clear the
BBQ fumes.
It certainly seems to clear smoke and steam.

It will be no worse than a gas ring

Want to bet?

I may be wrong but I'd have thought there was a lot more risk of fumes with
a barbecue because the fuel probably burns less efficiently than gas (the
ratio of fuel to air is not precisely controlled) and there will be fumes
from fat dropping onto the fuel.


My experience with cooker hoods (eg if something has burned and created
smoke) is that they are not up to the job, by several order of magnitude.
The previous people installed a huge motor-driven fan in the loft, connected
to the cooker hood, so a *lot*bigger than the one in a dedicated hood, but
it's not up to clearing the kitchen of smoke from burned toast or meat under
the grill.

On Saturday, 12 December 2020 at 18:29:44 UTC, NY wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 12/12/2020 17:22, David wrote:
Having bought my tiny one burger BBQ I am wondering about the
practicality
of using it indoors.

I wouldn't use it unventilated, but it has occurred to me that I could
put
it on a metal tray on top of the hob directly under the extractor fan.

I know that some restaurants have indoor charcoal grills.
I assume that they have very efficient extractor fans to remove any
combustion products such as CO to the outside atmosphere.

Just speculating if a cooker hood would have enough "suck" to clear the
BBQ fumes.
It certainly seems to clear smoke and steam.

It will be no worse than a gas ring
Want to bet?

I may be wrong but I'd have thought there was a lot more risk of fumes with
a barbecue because the fuel probably burns less efficiently than gas (the
ratio of fuel to air is not precisely controlled) and there will be fumes
from fat dropping onto the fuel.


My experience with cooker hoods (eg if something has burned and created
smoke) is that they are not up to the job, by several order of magnitude.
The previous people installed a huge motor-driven fan in the loft, connected
to the cooker hood, so a *lot*bigger than the one in a dedicated hood, but
it's not up to clearing the kitchen of smoke from burned toast or meat under
the grill.

I'd say never, ever, burn a barbecue indoors.

If a competent commercial organisation designs, tests, makes, tests, fits, tests, every day tests, then, just maybe.

Otherwise, never. Too many stores of things like a charcoal burning device, even when apparently no longer burning, actually producing copious amounts of carbon monoxide.

"polygonum_on_google" wrote in message
...
I'd say never, ever, burn a barbecue indoors.

If a competent commercial organisation designs, tests, makes, tests, fits,
tests, every day tests, then, just maybe.

Otherwise, never. Too many stores of things like a charcoal burning
device, even when apparently no longer burning, actually producing copious
amounts of carbon monoxide.

I was thinking more from the fire risk point of view, but as you say, CO
production would also be a problem.

I wonder how many people suffered CO poisoning many centuries ago before
houses had chimneys and the smoke from an inside fire just percolated
through a thatched roof. I was reading a historical novel set in the 1100s
and there was reference to someone having a luxury that was almost unknown -
a chimney for his fire; I'm not sure whether it was entirely true that
chimneys were rare as late as the 1100s. This was in a city of mainly
professionals and shopkeepers, as opposed to little peasants' cottages.

On Sat, 12 Dec 2020 10:55:52 -0800 (PST), polygonum_on_google
wrote:

snip


I'd say never, ever, burn a barbecue indoors.

If a competent commercial organisation designs, tests, makes, tests, fits, tests, every day tests, then, just maybe.

Otherwise, never. Too many stores of things like a charcoal burning device, even when apparently no longer burning, actually producing copious amounts of carbon monoxide.

David seems to be on a journey of mutual mass destruction, first of
himself with his indoor BBQ and then all those 'outside' he wants to
blow the *extra* toxic fumes over. ;-)

But hey, maybe he wants to reverse mans evolution, both in (outdoor)
heating and how we make meat digestible. ;-)

OOI, how 'clean' is the process of making charcoal (for positive
purposes, like filtration, not cooking animal flesh), I'm guessing
it's 'not as bad' when done at a commercial level, versus the big pots
you see hippies using in the forest?

Cheers, T i m

On 12/12/2020 18:55, polygonum_on_google wrote:
On Saturday, 12 December 2020 at 18:29:44 UTC, NY wrote:


I may be wrong but I'd have thought there was a lot more risk of fumes with
a barbecue because the fuel probably burns less efficiently than gas (the
ratio of fuel to air is not precisely controlled) and there will be fumes
from fat dropping onto the fuel.

most of the danger will be from carbon monoxide, much of this produced
from the glowing bed of charcoal gets oxidized in the little blue flames
above the coals but cooling excess air from the sides quenches the
reaction so CO is driven off. In a closed unventilated room the char
consumes much of the oxygen and as the CO2 in the room increases it
gets reduced to CO and anyone sleeping in the room turns lobster pink.

Natural gas is premixed with air before it meets the air and so that
bright blue cone ensures negligible CO is produced.

The burning fat is more implicated in long term increased risk from
cancer from polycliclic aromatic compounds in the products of incomplete
combustion.

Snipped

I'd say never, ever, burn a barbecue indoors.

+1


If a competent commercial organisation designs, tests, makes, tests, fits, tests, every day tests, then, just maybe.

pigs might...


Otherwise, never. Too many stores of things like a charcoal burning device, even when apparently no longer burning, actually producing copious amounts of carbon monoxide.


Yes, I'm not sure of the mechanism but essentially once charcoal reaches
about 200C there is enough energy to dissociate an oxygen molecule on
the hot surface it then combines with the carbon. Then there is an
equilibrium which means CO and CO2 are both produced depending on the
conditions. If there is a high temperature and oxygen is limited CO is
favoured, low temperature and high oxygen CO2 is favoured but a lot of
heat is produced so there is a feedback working here.

NY wrote:
"polygonum_on_google" wrote in message
...
I'd say never, ever, burn a barbecue indoors.

If a competent commercial organisation designs, tests, makes, tests, fits,
tests, every day tests, then, just maybe.

Otherwise, never. Too many stores of things like a charcoal burning
device, even when apparently no longer burning, actually producing copious
amounts of carbon monoxide.

I was thinking more from the fire risk point of view, but as you say, CO
production would also be a problem.

You could always try it with a CO alarm nearby.

--
Chris Green
·

On Sat, 12 Dec 2020 18:29:10 +0000, NY wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 12/12/2020 17:22, David wrote:
Having bought my tiny one burger BBQ I am wondering about the
practicality of using it indoors.

I wouldn't use it unventilated, but it has occurred to me that I could
put it on a metal tray on top of the hob directly under the extractor
fan.

I know that some restaurants have indoor charcoal grills.
I assume that they have very efficient extractor fans to remove any
combustion products such as CO to the outside atmosphere.

Just speculating if a cooker hood would have enough "suck" to clear
the BBQ fumes.
It certainly seems to clear smoke and steam.

It will be no worse than a gas ring

Want to bet?

I may be wrong but I'd have thought there was a lot more risk of fumes
with a barbecue because the fuel probably burns less efficiently than
gas (the ratio of fuel to air is not precisely controlled) and there
will be fumes from fat dropping onto the fuel.


My experience with cooker hoods (eg if something has burned and created
smoke) is that they are not up to the job, by several order of
magnitude. The previous people installed a huge motor-driven fan in the
loft, connected to the cooker hood, so a *lot*bigger than the one in a
dedicated hood, but it's not up to clearing the kitchen of smoke from
burned toast or meat under the grill.

My experience with cooker hoods isn't as bad as that.
Our 3 speed hood can effectively clear the smoke from over enthusiastic
cooking of, for example, steaks which ends up with blue smoke from the fat.

I would expect to light it outside, bring it into the kitchen (first bit
of risk) then under the cooker hood going full chat.
After cooking I would expect to take it back outside to let the embers
burn out.

I expect it to be more poisonous than a gas ring mainly because a decent
gas ring burns clean (most of the time) so only produces CO2 and water.

If the charcoal had fully ignited and was just glowing red and not giving
off smoke then it might be safer.

The size of the space could also make a difference.
One of the issues of bringing a BBQ into a tent is the small volume of air.
As I understand it a lot of the fatal outcomes are where the BBQ has been
brought in to warm the tent.
Also when a BBQ has been left in or near the tent after cooking has
finished (but when it is still giving off fumes).

I am just speculating at the moment.
My plan was always to cook outside.
Just looking at the extractor hood made me wonder.


Cheers



Dave R


--
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--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

NY wrote:
I was thinking more from the fire risk point of view, but as you say, CO
production would also be a problem.

There was a spate of deaths in Greece during the financial crisis when
people in flats who couldn't afford heating or cooking (either electric,
communal oil heat, or butane cylinders for cooking) were burning wood, which
can commonly be scavenged from wooded areas for free. Without suitable
ventilation the inevitable happened.

I wonder how many people suffered CO poisoning many centuries ago before
houses had chimneys and the smoke from an inside fire just percolated
through a thatched roof. I was reading a historical novel set in the 1100s
and there was reference to someone having a luxury that was almost unknown -
a chimney for his fire; I'm not sure whether it was entirely true that
chimneys were rare as late as the 1100s. This was in a city of mainly
professionals and shopkeepers, as opposed to little peasants' cottages.

I suspect such houses were very leaky. You had in effect a natural chimney
- not a duct, but hot gases seeped through the thatch and fresh air was
drawn in through gaps in the walls/doors/windows. Windows weren't glazed
until 17th century.

And of course they wouldn't know what people died of - life expectancy
wasn't high anyway. Excluding infant mortality, it seems to be about in the
40s, obviously highly affected by social class.

Theo

On 12/12/2020 18:29, NY wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
It will be no worse than a gas ring

Want to bet?

I may be wrong but I'd have thought there was a lot more risk of fumes
with a barbecue because the fuel probably burns less efficiently than
gas (the ratio of fuel to air is not precisely controlled)
There is always an excess of air.
and there
will be fumes from fat dropping onto the fuel.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
see later....


snip


but it's not up to clearing the kitchen of smoke from
burned toast or meat under the grill.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
As I said, no worse than gas....

--
Climate is what you expect but weather is what you get.
Mark Twain

On 12/12/2020 20:05, David wrote:
As I understand it a lot of the fatal outcomes are where the BBQ has been
brought in to warm the tent.
What fatal outcomes? I have never ever heard 0f anyone being poisoned by
CO from a BBQ. Tents are not airtight anyway


The world over, people have been cooking on open fires indoors for
thousands of years before they used natural gas.

Only town gas with its CO content was ever a major source of poisoning

In order to get major CO production you need to severely limit
oxygen...in a closed vessel. You will choke on smoke long before you die
of CO.


--
"Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They
always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them"

Margaret Thatcher

On Saturday, 12 December 2020 at 22:29:19 UTC, Theo wrote:
NY wrote:
I was thinking more from the fire risk point of view, but as you say, CO
production would also be a problem.
There was a spate of deaths in Greece during the financial crisis when
people in flats who couldn't afford heating or cooking (either electric,
communal oil heat, or butane cylinders for cooking) were burning wood, which
can commonly be scavenged from wooded areas for free. Without suitable
ventilation the inevitable happened.
I wonder how many people suffered CO poisoning many centuries ago before
houses had chimneys and the smoke from an inside fire just percolated
through a thatched roof. I was reading a historical novel set in the 1100s
and there was reference to someone having a luxury that was almost unknown -
a chimney for his fire; I'm not sure whether it was entirely true that
chimneys were rare as late as the 1100s. This was in a city of mainly
professionals and shopkeepers, as opposed to little peasants' cottages.
I suspect such houses were very leaky. You had in effect a natural chimney
- not a duct, but hot gases seeped through the thatch and fresh air was
drawn in through gaps in the walls/doors/windows. Windows weren't glazed
until 17th century.

And of course they wouldn't know what people died of - life expectancy
wasn't high anyway. Excluding infant mortality, it seems to be about in the
40s, obviously highly affected by social class.

Theo

I did some experiments with a CO detector that has a display reading parts per million.
It was a FireAngel CO9D. Close to a gas hob with all burners on and no deliberate
ventilation in the kitchen for about 20 minutes it eventually read about 10ppm.
Sister-in-law had been suffering bad headaches for some time and was concerned
that the woodburning stove in her kitchen was emitting CO, so she bought that
model of CO detector. There was a lot of CO in the house at times, but not from the
stove. It turned out that burning logs in an open fireplace was the cause. The
highest concentration - something like 450ppm I think - was found in one of the
bedrooms which had a fireplace whose flue was adjacent to that of the living-room
fireplace in the same chimney stack. Loose mortar in the brickwork allowed CO
from the wood fire in the living room to reach the bedroom.
So burning charcoal or wood can generate copious amounts of CO and it can get
into unexpected places. Fortunately the problem was fixed before anyone was
killed or injured.

John

The Natural Philosopher wrote in
:

On 12/12/2020 20:05, David wrote:
As I understand it a lot of the fatal outcomes are where the BBQ has
been brought in to warm the tent.

What fatal outcomes? I have never ever heard 0f anyone being poisoned
by CO from a BBQ. Tents are not airtight anyway

Search:

charcoal tent death

and you will be enlightened.

They normally say, not for use indoors.
The problem is that the proper indoor ones are completely fail safe I
believe, whereas the sort for outside seem to be pretty lethal at the best
of times. Just my feeling on them. So many people seem to suffer burns or
set their gardens alight that it does worry me when I smell that smell
nearby.

Brian

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Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Mark Carver" wrote in message
...
On 12/12/2020 17:22, David wrote:
Having bought my tiny one burger BBQ I am wondering about the
practicality
of using it indoors.

I wouldn't use it unventilated, but it has occurred to me that I could
put
it on a metal tray on top of the hob directly under the extractor fan.

I know that some restaurants have indoor charcoal grills.
I assume that they have very efficient extractor fans to remove any
combustion products such as CO to the outside atmosphere.

Just speculating if a cooker hood would have enough "suck" to clear the
BBQ fumes.
It certainly seems to clear smoke and steam.


Sounds to me like a recipe that leads to a coroner's verdict of
'misadventure' ?

All the smoke alarms will go off. Heck mine goes off if the neighbour lights
his and I have a door or window open.
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 12/12/2020 17:22, David wrote:
Having bought my tiny one burger BBQ I am wondering about the
practicality
of using it indoors.

I wouldn't use it unventilated, but it has occurred to me that I could
put
it on a metal tray on top of the hob directly under the extractor fan.

I know that some restaurants have indoor charcoal grills.
I assume that they have very efficient extractor fans to remove any
combustion products such as CO to the outside atmosphere.

Just speculating if a cooker hood would have enough "suck" to clear the
BBQ fumes.
It certainly seems to clear smoke and steam.


Cheers



Dave R


It will be no worse than a gas ring


--
"I am inclined to tell the truth and dislike people who lie consistently.
This makes me unfit for the company of people of a Left persuasion, and
all women"

On Sat, 12 Dec 2020 15:35:21 -0800 (PST), John Walliker
wrote:

snip

I did some experiments with a CO detector that has a display reading parts per million.
It was a FireAngel CO9D. Close to a gas hob with all burners on and no deliberate
ventilation in the kitchen for about 20 minutes it eventually read about 10ppm.
Sister-in-law had been suffering bad headaches for some time and was concerned
that the woodburning stove in her kitchen was emitting CO, so she bought that
model of CO detector. There was a lot of CO in the house at times, but not from the
stove. It turned out that burning logs in an open fireplace was the cause. The
highest concentration - something like 450ppm I think - was found in one of the
bedrooms which had a fireplace whose flue was adjacent to that of the living-room
fireplace in the same chimney stack. Loose mortar in the brickwork allowed CO
from the wood fire in the living room to reach the bedroom.
So burning charcoal or wood can generate copious amounts of CO and it can get
into unexpected places. Fortunately the problem was fixed before anyone was
killed or injured.

Interesting and informative post. Thank you.

Cheers, T i m

On Sat, 12 Dec 2020 20:02:17 +0000, Chris Green wrote:

NY wrote:
"polygonum_on_google" wrote in message
...
I'd say never, ever, burn a barbecue indoors.

If a competent commercial organisation designs, tests, makes, tests,
fits,
tests, every day tests, then, just maybe.

Otherwise, never. Too many stores of things like a charcoal burning
device, even when apparently no longer burning, actually producing
copious amounts of carbon monoxide.

I was thinking more from the fire risk point of view, but as you say,
CO production would also be a problem.

You could always try it with a CO alarm nearby.

We have a large kitchen/diner/living area which has the extractor fan
mentioned above.
It also has a wood burning stove with a source of external draught.
It also has a CO detector which hasn't grumbled so far.
Mind you, I wouldn't want it to grumble!

Risk is much lower than a small unventilated cooking area, just wondering
how much risk there is.

Cheers



Dave R

--
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On 12/12/2020 18:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 12/12/2020 17:22, David wrote:
Having bought my tiny one burger BBQ I am wondering about the
practicality
of using it indoors.

I wouldn't use it unventilated, but it has occurred to me that I could
put
it on a metal tray on top of the hob directly under the extractor fan.

I know that some restaurants have indoor charcoal grills.
I assume that they have very efficient extractor fans to remove any
combustion products such as CO to the outside atmosphere.

Just speculating if a cooker hood would have enough "suck" to clear the
BBQ fumes.
It certainly seems to clear smoke and steam.

It will be no worse than a gas ring

A gas ring is pretty much an optimal clean burn fuel air mixture.

I'd be willing to bet one of those nasty BBQ trays allows some of the
charcoal to be burning lean and making CO rather than CO2. Granted most
of it will then burn with a pretty blue flame on the surface but enough
will escape to pose a hazard. A CO monitor would be a very good idea.

We have one near our wood burning stove. It has only ever gone off when
I provoked it with some smoking paper to test it.

I'd also be concerned about where indoors is sufficiently fireproof to
operate one anyway nd why the OP would want to. BBQ outdoors fair enough
but lighting one indoors is just asking for trouble.

Grilling or a griddle pan is far more controllable to use indoors.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Sun, 13 Dec 2020 16:20:01 +0000, Martin Brown wrote:
snip

I'd also be concerned about where indoors is sufficiently fireproof to
operate one anyway nd why the OP would want to. BBQ outdoors fair enough
but lighting one indoors is just asking for trouble.
snip

On an oven tray on top of a gas hob underneath an extractor fan.

Remember that this is a tiny BBQ - will take one burger (just).

I assume that if I didn't want CO/smoke extraction I could also use it on
top of the wood burner on top of the solid hearth.
That is decidedly not inflammable.

Cheers



Dave R


--
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--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On Sunday, 13 December 2020 at 16:20:13 UTC, Martin Brown wrote:

A gas ring is pretty much an optimal clean burn fuel air mixture.

A decent gas ring is extremely low carbon monoxide - but that increases markedly when you put a cold pan over it. Still acceptably low.

David wrote:
On Sat, 12 Dec 2020 20:02:17 +0000, Chris Green wrote:
You could always try it with a CO alarm nearby.

We have a large kitchen/diner/living area which has the extractor fan
mentioned above.
It also has a wood burning stove with a source of external draught.
It also has a CO detector which hasn't grumbled so far.
Mind you, I wouldn't want it to grumble!

Risk is much lower than a small unventilated cooking area, just wondering
how much risk there is.

Cheers

Dave R

What's the profit in this again ? The misadventure part...

People here barbecue in the winter, but they use a
gas-powered barbecue on the patio (outdoors). You want a cooking
device that starts reliably, when cooking in winter.
On lazy summer days, there is more time for starting
arcane cooking solutions.

Charcoal does not always start up promptly. It requires
"fidgeting". The favorite it, the Dad brings out the
liquid barbecue starter, and applies 10X the recommended
amount (from past experience, we know that 2X and 5X
aren't enough). Flames might shoot up ten feet in the air,
after the Dad is done. These are not the kinds of
misadventures to be carried out under an extractor fan.
Yes, you can use an electric heating element starter,
to start charcoal. But even then, it might take 30 minutes
to 60 minutes before the charcoal is at "cooking temp".
There is a lot of fiddling, moving/rotating coals, and
so on.

You will be tempted to do all sorts of "stupid Dad" stuff
with a charcoal cooker. Multiple attempts to get charcoal lighted.
Doing it in the house ? Get outta here.

With charcoal, it's 60 minutes to get the blasted thing
at cook temperature, 10 minutes to cook. What is wrong
with this picture ? With gas, it's 1 minute to prep, 10 minutes
to cook. Select the right food (steak, in winter), and
there is minimal interaction with the food on the patio.
Only if you're a "steak torturer" do you have to stay
out there and play with it. It helps to learn how to
cook stuff in warmer weather, where you can watch
cause and effect and learn your craft. Then in winter
cook situations on the patio, you can be deadly efficient
(minimal number of nips out to patio).

With charcoal, the grease from the food falls down onto
the briquettes and the grease burns and soon you have a lot
of flame shooting up. Some use a spritz of water on the
coals, to tamp down the grease fire. It's not really
something you can afford to walk away from, in terms
of tending it. Maybe you try to control it, by moving
the grill plate up or down a notch. It's still a lot
more trouble than its worth. In the house ? ****, No!

There's nothing flammable on my patio. If I were to
set up the Hibachi (classic charcoal cooker), if there
were an "incident", maybe the worst that would happen
is grease stains on the concrete. If it tips over,
I don't have to "save it". No heroics required.
If my Sambuca catches fire, I can throw it on the lawn.

Paul

On Saturday, 12 December 2020 at 17:22:20 UTC, David WE Roberts (Google) wrote:
Having bought my tiny one burger BBQ I am wondering about the practicality
of using it indoors.

Suggest you read:

https://www.cpsc.gov/Safety-Educatio...ns-and-Answers

Using a charcoal barbecue indoors is about as sensible as your checking your "email" for viruses before posting on a newsgroup. From your point of view, one might have more serious consequences than the other.

On Sat, 12 Dec 2020 17:22:15 +0000, David wrote:

Having bought my tiny one burger BBQ I am wondering about the
practicality of using it indoors.

I wouldn't use it unventilated, but it has occurred to me that I could
put it on a metal tray on top of the hob directly under the extractor
fan.

I know that some restaurants have indoor charcoal grills.
I assume that they have very efficient extractor fans to remove any
combustion products such as CO to the outside atmosphere.

Just speculating if a cooker hood would have enough "suck" to clear the
BBQ fumes.
It certainly seems to clear smoke and steam.


Following various bits of the discussion, it now occurs to me that there
might be a case for using a BBQ in an open fireplace, as it probably is no
worse than the embers of a coal or wood fire.

Cheers



Dave R


--
AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64

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On Mon, 14 Dec 2020 03:43:50 -0500, Paul wrote:

David wrote:
On Sat, 12 Dec 2020 20:02:17 +0000, Chris Green wrote:
You could always try it with a CO alarm nearby.

We have a large kitchen/diner/living area which has the extractor fan
mentioned above.
It also has a wood burning stove with a source of external draught.
It also has a CO detector which hasn't grumbled so far.
Mind you, I wouldn't want it to grumble!

Risk is much lower than a small unventilated cooking area, just
wondering how much risk there is.

Cheers

Dave R

What's the profit in this again ? The misadventure part...

People here barbecue in the winter, but they use a gas-powered barbecue
on the patio (outdoors). You want a cooking device that starts reliably,
when cooking in winter.
On lazy summer days, there is more time for starting arcane cooking
solutions.

Charcoal does not always start up promptly. It requires "fidgeting". The
favorite it, the Dad brings out the liquid barbecue starter, and applies
10X the recommended amount (from past experience, we know that 2X and 5X
aren't enough). Flames might shoot up ten feet in the air,
after the Dad is done. These are not the kinds of misadventures to be
carried out under an extractor fan.
Yes, you can use an electric heating element starter,
to start charcoal. But even then, it might take 30 minutes to 60 minutes
before the charcoal is at "cooking temp".
There is a lot of fiddling, moving/rotating coals, and so on.

You will be tempted to do all sorts of "stupid Dad" stuff with a
charcoal cooker. Multiple attempts to get charcoal lighted.
Doing it in the house ? Get outta here.

With charcoal, it's 60 minutes to get the blasted thing at cook
temperature, 10 minutes to cook. What is wrong with this picture ? With
gas, it's 1 minute to prep, 10 minutes to cook. Select the right food
(steak, in winter), and there is minimal interaction with the food on
the patio.
Only if you're a "steak torturer" do you have to stay out there and play
with it. It helps to learn how to cook stuff in warmer weather, where
you can watch cause and effect and learn your craft. Then in winter cook
situations on the patio, you can be deadly efficient (minimal number of
nips out to patio).

With charcoal, the grease from the food falls down onto the briquettes
and the grease burns and soon you have a lot of flame shooting up. Some
use a spritz of water on the coals, to tamp down the grease fire. It's
not really something you can afford to walk away from, in terms of
tending it. Maybe you try to control it, by moving the grill plate up or
down a notch. It's still a lot more trouble than its worth. In the house
? ****, No!

There's nothing flammable on my patio. If I were to set up the Hibachi
(classic charcoal cooker), if there were an "incident", maybe the worst
that would happen is grease stains on the concrete. If it tips over,
I don't have to "save it". No heroics required.
If my Sambuca catches fire, I can throw it on the lawn.

Paul

Assume that I have some minor experience with BBQs which does not match
your "straw man" argument.

Cheers



Dave R



--
AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On Monday, 14 December 2020 at 12:32:18 UTC, David WE Roberts (Google) wrote:

Following various bits of the discussion, it now occurs to me that there
might be a case for using a BBQ in an open fireplace, as it probably is no
worse than the embers of a coal or wood fire.

Not necessarily, as a very small BBQ may not generate enough heat to get a good draught
up the chimney.

John

On Mon, 14 Dec 2020 01:05:55 -0800, polygonum_on_google wrote:

On Saturday, 12 December 2020 at 17:22:20 UTC, David WE Roberts (Google)
wrote:
Having bought my tiny one burger BBQ I am wondering about the
practicality of using it indoors.

Suggest you read:

https://www.cpsc.gov/Safety-Educatio...enters/Carbon-
Monoxide-Information-Center/Carbon-Monoxide-Questions-and-Answers

Using a charcoal barbecue indoors is about as sensible as your checking
your "email" for viruses before posting on a newsgroup. From your point
of view, one might have more serious consequences than the other.

Thanks.
However the link is USA, very generalised, and suggests that you don't do
various things which are deemed safe in the UK.
Like using a portable gas cooker indoors.

I am well aware of the generalised risk, and wouldn't contemplate lighting
a charcoal device indoors without having first assessed the risk and then
done my best to ensure that the risk has been mitigated.

Which is why I started this thread; to discuss the risk and possible
mitigation.

The mitigation that I am exploring is having a very small BBQ under a
powerful extractor fan which vents to the outside.

Cheers



Dave R

--
AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On Mon, 14 Dec 2020 04:43:35 -0800 (PST), John Walliker
wrote:

On Monday, 14 December 2020 at 12:32:18 UTC, David WE Roberts (Google) wrote:

Following various bits of the discussion, it now occurs to me that there
might be a case for using a BBQ in an open fireplace, as it probably is no
worse than the embers of a coal or wood fire.

Not necessarily, as a very small BBQ may not generate enough heat to get a good draught
up the chimney.

Or function as hoped in the first place?

It may well be one of those things that simply doesn't scale (down)
very well, like trying to solder larger things with a low power iron.

David's desire to only have the capacity to sear the animal flesh for
one person reminds me very much of:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zf17XyPEnQk

I wonder if you could make a micro smoker for say one sausage from a
baked bean can? ;-)

The desire for any of this is also ignoring the increased cancer risks
from heating animal flesh to a high temperature, especially in the
smoke from and in an open flame.

Heterocyclic amines (HCAs) and polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons
(PAHs). Yum!

Cheers, T i m

On Monday, 14 December 2020 at 13:45:06 UTC, T i m wrote:


Heterocyclic amines (HCAs) and polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons
(PAHs). Yum!

Cheers, T i m

I definitely want some heterocyclic amines. Niacin, aka vitamin B3, yes please.

On 14/12/2020 12:07, David wrote:
On Sat, 12 Dec 2020 17:22:15 +0000, David wrote:

Having bought my tiny one burger BBQ I am wondering about the
practicality of using it indoors.

I wouldn't use it unventilated, but it has occurred to me that I could
put it on a metal tray on top of the hob directly under the extractor
fan.

I know that some restaurants have indoor charcoal grills.
I assume that they have very efficient extractor fans to remove any
combustion products such as CO to the outside atmosphere.

Just speculating if a cooker hood would have enough "suck" to clear the
BBQ fumes.
It certainly seems to clear smoke and steam.


Following various bits of the discussion, it now occurs to me that there
might be a case for using a BBQ in an open fireplace, as it probably is no
worse than the embers of a coal or wood fire.

Cheers



Dave R


Between 1966 and 1988 I use to eat at a kebab shop where they barbecued
over charcoal in the basement. I used to sit next to the cook, whom I
got to know quite well.

I am not, as far as I am aware, dead.

--
If I had all the money I've spent on drink...
...I'd spend it on drink.

Sir Henry (at Rawlinson's End)

On 14/12/2020 12:51, David wrote:
On Mon, 14 Dec 2020 01:05:55 -0800, polygonum_on_google wrote:

On Saturday, 12 December 2020 at 17:22:20 UTC, David WE Roberts (Google)
wrote:
Having bought my tiny one burger BBQ I am wondering about the
practicality of using it indoors.

Suggest you read:

https://www.cpsc.gov/Safety-Educatio...enters/Carbon-
Monoxide-Information-Center/Carbon-Monoxide-Questions-and-Answers

Using a charcoal barbecue indoors is about as sensible as your checking
your "email" for viruses before posting on a newsgroup. From your point
of view, one might have more serious consequences than the other.

Thanks.
However the link is USA, very generalised, and suggests that you don't do
various things which are deemed safe in the UK.
Like using a portable gas cooker indoors.

I am well aware of the generalised risk, and wouldn't contemplate lighting
a charcoal device indoors without having first assessed the risk and then
done my best to ensure that the risk has been mitigated.

Which is why I started this thread; to discuss the risk and possible
mitigation.

The mitigation that I am exploring is having a very small BBQ under a
powerful extractor fan which vents to the outside.

Has to be a lot better than an open fire going up a passive chimney

Cheers



Dave R



--
"I guess a rattlesnake ain't risponsible fer bein' a rattlesnake, but ah
puts mah heel on um jess the same if'n I catches him around mah chillun".

On 14/12/2020 16:26:40, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 14/12/2020 12:07, David wrote:
On Sat, 12 Dec 2020 17:22:15 +0000, David wrote:

Having bought my tiny one burger BBQ I am wondering about the
practicality of using it indoors.

I wouldn't use it unventilated, but it has occurred to me that I could
put it on a metal tray on top of the hob directly under the extractor
fan.

I know that some restaurants have indoor charcoal grills.
I assume that they have very efficient extractor fans to remove any
combustion products such as CO to the outside atmosphere.

Just speculating if a cooker hood would have enough "suck" to clear the
BBQ fumes.
It certainly seems to clear smoke and steam.


Following various bits of the discussion, it now occurs to me that there
might be a case for using a BBQ in an open fireplace, as it probably
is no
worse than the embers of a coal or wood fire.

Cheers



Dave R


Between 1966 and 1988 I use to eat at a kebab shop where they barbecued
over charcoal in the basement. I used to sit next to the cook,Â* whom I
got to know quite well.

I am not, as far as I am aware, dead.

Maybe, but did the CO break/make new neuron connections to make you into
a climate denier? You might still be married and not post so much
misinformation. Thing we'll never know.

CO is something most of us would choose to void.

On 14/12/2020 17:06, Fredxx wrote:
On 14/12/2020 16:26:40, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 14/12/2020 12:07, David wrote:
On Sat, 12 Dec 2020 17:22:15 +0000, David wrote:

Having bought my tiny one burger BBQ I am wondering about the
practicality of using it indoors.

I wouldn't use it unventilated, but it has occurred to me that I could
put it on a metal tray on top of the hob directly under the extractor
fan.

I know that some restaurants have indoor charcoal grills.
I assume that they have very efficient extractor fans to remove any
combustion products such as CO to the outside atmosphere.

Just speculating if a cooker hood would have enough "suck" to clear the
BBQ fumes.
It certainly seems to clear smoke and steam.


Following various bits of the discussion, it now occurs to me that there
might be a case for using a BBQ in an open fireplace, as it probably
is no
worse than the embers of a coal or wood fire.

Cheers



Dave R


Between 1966 and 1988 I use to eat at a kebab shop where they
barbecued over charcoal in the basement. I used to sit next to the
cook,Â* whom I got to know quite well.

I am not, as far as I am aware, dead.

Maybe, but did the CO break/make new neuron connections to make you into
a climate denier?
I am not a climate denier. Climate is a perfectly good word to describe
long term weather averages.

Neither do I deny that it changes, always has changed and is still changing/

And i am not in denial of the fact that scientific evaluation of it
refutes the proposition that CO‚‚ has any major impact upon it.

So who is in denial here?

You might still be married and not post so much
misinformation. Thing we'll never know.

You could find out..

CO is something most of us would choose to void.
Er no . most of us have no choice - we have to void CO‚‚, or die.



--
Future generations will wonder in bemused amazement that the early
twenty-first centurys developed world went into hysterical panic over a
globally average temperature increase of a few tenths of a degree, and,
on the basis of gross exaggerations of highly uncertain computer
projections combined into implausible chains of inference, proceeded to
contemplate a rollback of the industrial age.

Richard Lindzen

On 14/12/2020 17:19:53, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 14/12/2020 17:06, Fredxx wrote:
On 14/12/2020 16:26:40, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 14/12/2020 12:07, David wrote:
On Sat, 12 Dec 2020 17:22:15 +0000, David wrote:

Having bought my tiny one burger BBQ I am wondering about the
practicality of using it indoors.

I wouldn't use it unventilated, but it has occurred to me that I could
put it on a metal tray on top of the hob directly under the extractor
fan.

I know that some restaurants have indoor charcoal grills.
I assume that they have very efficient extractor fans to remove any
combustion products such as CO to the outside atmosphere.

Just speculating if a cooker hood would have enough "suck" to clear
the
BBQ fumes.
It certainly seems to clear smoke and steam.


Following various bits of the discussion, it now occurs to me that
there
might be a case for using a BBQ in an open fireplace, as it probably
is no
worse than the embers of a coal or wood fire.

Cheers



Dave R


Between 1966 and 1988 I use to eat at a kebab shop where they
barbecued over charcoal in the basement. I used to sit next to the
cook,Â* whom I got to know quite well.

I am not, as far as I am aware, dead.

Maybe, but did the CO break/make new neuron connections to make you
into a climate denier?
I am not a climate denier. Climate is a perfectly good word to describe
long term weather averages.

Are you know saying you don't deny anthropomorphic global warming

Or are you in denial the term "climate denier" is typically associated
with those who deny anthropomorphic global warming.
Neither do I deny that it changes, always has changed and is still
changing/

And i am notÂ* in denial of the fact that scientific evaluation of it
refutes the propositionÂ* that CO‚‚ has any major impact upon it.

So who is in denial here?

You might still be married and not post so much misinformation. Thing
we'll never know.

You could find out..

CO is something most of us would choose to void.
Er no . most of us have no choiceÂ* - we have to void CO‚‚, or die.

Perhaps if you hadn't sat repeatedly sat next to a charcoal burner in a
basement you would know the difference between CO and CO2.