Hi all

I am trying to encourage an apple tree in a certain direction by
gradually pulling it over.
There is a copper beach tree nearby to act as the anchor for the
rope tie.

What I need is a knot that can take up slack as I pull hard to
bend the tree.
Anyone understand what I am trying to achieve and suggest the
appropriate knot please?

Thanks

Phil

--


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On 04/04/2020 21:38, thescullster wrote:
Hi all

I am trying to encourage an apple tree in a certain direction by
gradually pulling it over.
There is a copper beach tree nearby to act as the anchor for the
rope tie.

What I need is a knot that can take up slack as I pull hard to
bend the tree.

No, you don't.
What you *need* is O level physics.


Anyone understand what I am trying to achieve and suggest the
appropriate knot please?

Thanks

Phil



--
"Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They
always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them"

Margaret Thatcher

On Sat, 4 Apr 2020 21:38:37 +0100 (GMT+01:00), thescullster
wrote:

Hi all

I am trying to encourage an apple tree in a certain direction by
gradually pulling it over.
There is a copper beach tree nearby to act as the anchor for the
rope tie.

What I need is a knot that can take up slack as I pull hard to
bend the tree.
Anyone understand what I am trying to achieve and suggest the
appropriate knot please?

I would have thought you just want to tie into a loop of some sort and
then do a half hitch to lock it off?

So imagine you put a bowline in the end of your rope and passed it
round the apple tree. Then took the free end round the base of the
beach and back to your bowline. Pass the free end though your loop,
pull it back towards you and then lock it off with said half hitch on
the part going back to the beech.

Better might be to put some sort of strop / cambian saver round each
tree and do similar with that. If you can't get sufficient purchase,
you can either pass it round more times (between the strops, assuming
a reasonably open 'D' on the ends of the strops) or you can work the
inter tree part sideways and then take up the slack as you allow it to
straighten again.

If you need more power still you can get rope / pulley engine hoists
pretty cheap (use that to generate the tension and then lock it off
with another rope and take the hoist away).

Cheers, T i m

On Sat, 04 Apr 2020 22:07:13 +0100, Chris Hogg wrote:

On Sat, 4 Apr 2020 21:38:37 +0100 (GMT+01:00), thescullster
wrote:

Hi all

I am trying to encourage an apple tree in a certain direction by
gradually pulling it over.
There is a copper beach tree nearby to act as the anchor for the
rope tie.

What I need is a knot that can take up slack as I pull hard to
bend the tree.
Anyone understand what I am trying to achieve and suggest the
appropriate knot please?

Thanks

Phil

Not sure I see exactly what you're looking for, but look at these -

Garda hitch (needs karabiners but you may be able to improvise)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garda_hitch

or Trucker's hitch https://www.animatedknots.com/truckers-hitch-knot ?

Whilst that would work and we don't know the whole story (size of
trees, amount of tension required / acceptable, distance between the
trees) I was thinking two parts between the tree would likely offer
more capacity in the rope?

If the distance between the trees was sufficient I wonder if a weight
of some sort tied midway between the trees would act as an automatic
tensioner? Old car tyre laid flat on a sheet of polythene then filled
with concrete and a metal loop forming an anchor point set in at the
same time?

Cheers, T i m

On Sat, 04 Apr 2020 22:07:13 +0100, Chris Hogg wrote:

snip

Not sure I see exactly what you're looking for, but look at these -

Garda hitch (needs karabiners but you may be able to improvise)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garda_hitch

or Trucker's hitch https://www.animatedknots.com/truckers-hitch-knot ?

If it's to be able to slide the knot when it's not under tension then
a Prussik might do the job?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prusik

No karabiners required. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On 04/04/2020 22:07, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Sat, 4 Apr 2020 21:38:37 +0100 (GMT+01:00), thescullster
wrote:

Hi all

I am trying to encourage an apple tree in a certain direction by
gradually pulling it over.
There is a copper beach tree nearby to act as the anchor for the
rope tie.

What I need is a knot that can take up slack as I pull hard to
bend the tree.
Anyone understand what I am trying to achieve and suggest the
appropriate knot please?

Thanks

Phil

Not sure I see exactly what you're looking for, but look at these -

Garda hitch (needs karabiners but you may be able to improvise)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garda_hitch

or Trucker's hitch https://www.animatedknots.com/truckers-hitch-knot ?

Actually what he needs is a ratchet strap.
Not a knot. No knot self tightens while you are pulling somewhere else.
O level physics

And trying to do WTH a knot what a ratchet strap is DESIGNED TO DO is
just stupid.

--
Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have
guns, why should we let them have ideas?

Josef Stalin

On 04/04/2020 21:38, thescullster wrote:
Hi all

I am trying to encourage an apple tree in a certain direction by
gradually pulling it over.
There is a copper beach tree nearby to act as the anchor for the
rope tie.

What I need is a knot that can take up slack as I pull hard to
bend the tree.
Anyone understand what I am trying to achieve and suggest the
appropriate knot please?


I've tied 2 of the knots suggested in the distant past when helping
relatives on HGVs or trying single rope caving techniques. But in the
21st century unless pennies are tight I'd say sod that and buy a heavy
ratchet strap. Another possibility is a self-locking belay device on
the rope. The latter is pricier but allows you to use the rope on
pulleys to get mechanical advantage. Then again, they probably cost
more than 2 or 3 ratchet straps which you can use in parallel.



--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

thescullster wrote:
Hi all

I am trying to encourage an apple tree in a certain direction by
gradually pulling it over.
There is a copper beach tree nearby to act as the anchor for the
rope tie.

What I need is a knot that can take up slack as I pull hard to
bend the tree.
Anyone understand what I am trying to achieve and suggest the
appropriate knot please?

Thanks

Phil


Two lengths of strong rope. Long enough to make a loop round one tree an
reach almost to the other one.

Place side by side, overlapping, so you have a long twin section. At each
end of the twin section, knot the ropes together. Best way is to form a
loop an tie a knot with the free end. A sheep shank should be ok. You
should end up with a twin section and two ends to make loops.

Tie loop around each tree- cloth or hose to protect trees is a good idea.
Pull centre section as tight as you can initially.

To tighten further you need a bit of wood, place between twin ropes and
twist them together. To maintain tension, lash / peg wood in place.

T i m Wrote in message:
On Sat, 04 Apr 2020 22:07:13 +0100, Chris Hogg wrote:On Sat, 4 Apr 2020 21:38:37 +0100 (GMT+01:00), wrote:Hi allI am trying to encourage an apple tree in a certain direction by gradually pulling it over.There is a copper beach tree nearby to act as the anchor for the rope tie.What I need is a knot that can take up slack as I pull hard to bend the tree.Anyone understand what I am trying to achieve and suggest the appropriate knot please?ThanksPhilNot sure I see exactly what you're looking for, but look at these - Garda hitch (needs karabiners but you may be able to improvise)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garda_hitch or Trucker's hitch https://www.animatedknots.com/truckers-hitch-knot ?Whilst that would work and we don't know the whole story (size oftrees, amount of tension required / acceptable, distance between thetrees) I was thinking two parts between the tree would likely offermore capacity in the rope?If the distance between the trees was sufficient I wonder if a weightof some sort tied midway between the trees would act as an automatictensioner? Old car tyre laid flat on a sheet of polythene then filledwith concrete and a metal loop forming an anchor point set in at thesame time?Cheers, T i m

Thanks guys

Think I'll try and get to grips with Chris's Trucker's hitch.
A single part rope is fine, but it does take some effort to get
movement from the apple tree trunk.
Just need a means of taking up and securing the slack while
maintaining the tension.

Phil
--


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

"thescullster" wrote in message
...
Hi all

I am trying to encourage an apple tree in a certain direction by
gradually pulling it over.
There is a copper beach tree nearby to act as the anchor for the
rope tie.

What I need is a knot that can take up slack as I pull hard to
bend the tree.
Anyone understand what I am trying to achieve

Yes.

and suggest the appropriate knot please?

The best approach is the truckers knot
used to tie down loads. Main problem
with it is that it doesn't have just one
name and you really need a video of
how to do it rather than just a picture.

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 4 Apr 2020 21:38:37 +0100 (GMT+01:00), thescullster
wrote:

Hi all

I am trying to encourage an apple tree in a certain direction by
gradually pulling it over.
There is a copper beach tree nearby to act as the anchor for the
rope tie.

What I need is a knot that can take up slack as I pull hard to
bend the tree.
Anyone understand what I am trying to achieve and suggest the
appropriate knot please?

I would have thought you just want to tie into a loop
of some sort and then do a half hitch to lock it off?

You'd be wrong. The truckers hitch lets you get a lot more
tension on the rope and is much easier to adjust over time too.

On 04/04/2020 22:34, Robin wrote:
On 04/04/2020 21:38, thescullster wrote:
Hi all

I am trying to encourage an apple tree in a certain direction by
Â* gradually pulling it over.
There is a copper beach tree nearby to act as the anchor for the
Â* rope tie.

What I need is a knot that can take up slack as I pull hard to
Â* bend the tree.
Anyone understand what I am trying to achieve and suggest the
Â* appropriate knot please?


I've tied 2 of the knots suggested in the distant past when helping
relatives on HGVs or trying single rope caving techniques.


But in the
21st century unless pennies are tight I'd say sod that and buy a heavy
ratchet strap.


+1

--
Adam

I've never had much luck, trees tend to just grow around things like fences
and ropes, including them inside their trunks. If something is growing in a
certain direction its probably light related.
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 04/04/2020 21:38, thescullster wrote:
Hi all

I am trying to encourage an apple tree in a certain direction by
gradually pulling it over.
There is a copper beach tree nearby to act as the anchor for the
rope tie.

What I need is a knot that can take up slack as I pull hard to
bend the tree.

No, you don't.
What you *need* is O level physics.


Anyone understand what I am trying to achieve and suggest the
appropriate knot please?

Thanks

Phil



--
"Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They always
run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them"

Margaret Thatcher

On Sun, 5 Apr 2020 09:31:43 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH senile Ozzietard's latest troll**** unread

09:31??? LOL So you've been up and trolling ALL night long and all morning,
yet again! LOL

--
Richard about senile Rodent:
"Rod Speed, a bare faced pig and ignorant ****."
MID:

On Sun, 5 Apr 2020 09:24:38 +1000, John_j, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

"thescullster" wrote in message
...
Hi all

I am trying to encourage an apple tree in a certain direction by
gradually pulling it over.
There is a copper beach tree nearby to act as the anchor for the
rope tie.

What I need is a knot that can take up slack as I pull hard to
bend the tree.
Anyone understand what I am trying to achieve

Yes.

and suggest the appropriate knot please?

The best approach is the truckers knot
used to tie down loads.

It would be a great way to fix your senile gob, every time you try to open
it and make you shut up for good, although a simple rope around your neck
would definitely be the preferred method.

--
Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 86-year-old trolling senile
cretin from Oz:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

In message , thescullster
writes
T i m Wrote in message:
On Sat, 04 Apr 2020 22:07:13 +0100, Chris Hogg
wrote:On Sat, 4 Apr 2020 21:38:37 +0100 (GMT+01:00),
wrote:Hi allI am
trying to encourage an apple tree in a certain direction by
gradually pulling it over.There is a copper beach tree nearby to act
as the anchor for the rope tie.What I need is a knot that can
take up slack as I pull hard to bend the tree.Anyone understand
what I am trying to achieve and suggest the appropriate knot
please?ThanksPhilNot sure I see exactly what you're looking
for, but look at these - Garda hitch (needs karabiners but you may
be able to improvise)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garda_hitch or
Trucker's hitch https://www.animatedknots.com/truckers-hitch-knot
?Whilst that would work and we don't know the whole story (size
oftrees, amount of tension required / acceptable, distance between
thetrees) I was thinking two parts between the tree would likely
offermore capacity in the rope?If the distance between the trees was
sufficient I wonder if a weightof some sort tied midway between the
trees would act as an automatictensioner? Old car tyre laid flat on a
sheet of polythene then filledwith concrete and a metal loop forming
an anchor point set in at thesame time?Cheers, T i m

Thanks guys

Think I'll try and get to grips with Chris's Trucker's hitch.
A single part rope is fine, but it does take some effort to get
movement from the apple tree trunk.
Just need a means of taking up and securing the slack while
maintaining the tension.

You need something under the rope to protect the bark anyway. If you can
make this *low friction,* more than one loop of rope will give you a
mechanical advantage.

For a *releasable* knot I would use a simple half hitch but leave a loop
in the clamp. I was never a Scout so don't know the terms:-)

Any boatee will know!

--
Tim Lamb

Brian Gaff (Sofa 2) wrote

I've never had much luck, trees tend to just grow around things like
fences and ropes, including them inside their trunks.

But arent hard to grow the way you want
them too, most obviously with bonsai etc.

If something is growing in a certain direction its probably light related.

Much more often it’s the wind.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 04/04/2020 21:38, thescullster wrote:
Hi all

I am trying to encourage an apple tree in a certain direction by
gradually pulling it over.
There is a copper beach tree nearby to act as the anchor for the
rope tie.

What I need is a knot that can take up slack as I pull hard to
bend the tree.

No, you don't.
What you *need* is O level physics.


Anyone understand what I am trying to achieve and suggest the
appropriate knot please?

Thanks

Phil



--
"Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They
always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of
them"

Margaret Thatcher

several wraps of carpet around the trees to protect them from the ropes destroying the bark and tree,

[g]


On Saturday, April 4, 2020 at 9:38:41 PM UTC+1, thescullster wrote:
Hi all

I am trying to encourage an apple tree in a certain direction by
gradually pulling it over.
There is a copper beach tree nearby to act as the anchor for the
rope tie.

What I need is a knot that can take up slack as I pull hard to
bend the tree.
Anyone understand what I am trying to achieve and suggest the
appropriate knot please?

Thanks

Phil

--


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On Sat, 4 Apr 2020 22:26:55 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 04/04/2020 22:07, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Sat, 4 Apr 2020 21:38:37 +0100 (GMT+01:00), thescullster
wrote:

Hi all

I am trying to encourage an apple tree in a certain direction by
gradually pulling it over.
There is a copper beach tree nearby to act as the anchor for the
rope tie.

What I need is a knot that can take up slack as I pull hard to
bend the tree.
Anyone understand what I am trying to achieve and suggest the
appropriate knot please?

Thanks

Phil

Not sure I see exactly what you're looking for, but look at these -

Garda hitch (needs karabiners but you may be able to improvise)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garda_hitch

or Trucker's hitch https://www.animatedknots.com/truckers-hitch-knot ?

Actually what he needs is a ratchet strap.
Not a knot. No knot self tightens while you are pulling somewhere else.
O level physics

And trying to do WTH a knot what a ratchet strap is DESIGNED TO DO is
just stupid.
+1

On 05/04/20 06:38, thescullster wrote:
Hi all

I am trying to encourage an apple tree in a certain direction by
gradually pulling it over.
There is a copper beach tree nearby to act as the anchor for the
rope tie.

What I need is a knot that can take up slack as I pull hard to
bend the tree.
Anyone understand what I am trying to achieve and suggest the
appropriate knot please?

Thanks

Phil

angle grinder
Cut a notch in the tree

On Sat, 4 Apr 2020 23:22:05 +0100 (GMT+01:00), thescullster
wrote:

snip

Think I'll try and get to grips with Chris's Trucker's hitch.
A single part rope is fine, but it does take some effort to get
movement from the apple tree trunk.

As you said, you are only going to (try to) 'encourage)' the apple
tree over, any more force than that may damage one tree or the other.

Just need a means of taking up and securing the slack while
maintaining the tension.

If you are pulling a tail of rope though a loop then it's quite easy
to hold the two parts together (tight in one hand) whilst getting a
knot round somewhere. If you do lose a few cm as you do that it should
be an issue in that application, especially if you use a stretchy rope
in the first place?

Cheers, T i m

On Sun, 5 Apr 2020 09:31:43 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"T i m" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 4 Apr 2020 21:38:37 +0100 (GMT+01:00), thescullster
wrote:

Hi all

I am trying to encourage an apple tree in a certain direction by
gradually pulling it over.
There is a copper beach tree nearby to act as the anchor for the
rope tie.

What I need is a knot that can take up slack as I pull hard to
bend the tree.
Anyone understand what I am trying to achieve and suggest the
appropriate knot please?

I would have thought you just want to tie into a loop
of some sort and then do a half hitch to lock it off?

You'd be wrong.

And you are a ****. Seriously Rod, aren't there any Auz based forums
you could hit with your peanut gallery comments, or do you do that as
well? ;-(

Not that it will have any bearing on you because you are such a left
brainers but I have spent much of my life in boats, surrounded by
sheets, painters, mooring lines (head (painter)/ breast / aft springs)
and halyards and when daughter was doing Tree Surgery, used all sorts
of ropes (for climbing and pulling), winches and straps, helping her
on the bigger jobs.

OOI, Did you ever live in the UK or have ever been here?

The truckers hitch lets you get a lot more
tension on the rope and is much easier to adjust over time too.

A truckers hitch offers no more tension that a looped rope an would
offer less if the single part of the rope was on it's strength limits
(compared with two parts).

Cheers, T i m

On Sun, 5 Apr 2020 19:13:41 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

I've never had much luck, trees tend to just grow around things like
fences and ropes, including them inside their trunks.

But arent hard to grow the way you want
them too, most obviously with bonsai etc.

....and the pathological auto-contradicting continues...

If something is growing in a certain direction its probably light related.

Much more often it¢s the wind.

....and the pathological auto-contradicting continues...

Anyone still wondering why this sick senile asshole has NO ONE in real life
to talk to? ;-)

--
Richard addressing senile Rodent Speed:
"**** you're thick/pathetic excuse for a troll."
MID:

On Sun, 05 Apr 2020 10:36:54 +0100, Davidm
wrote:
snip


And trying to do WTH a knot what a ratchet strap is DESIGNED TO DO is
just stupid.
+1

But not what the OP was asking about.

This can be a big problem with a minority here, people assuming that
the OP hasn't already considered what they put forward.

It doesn't matter if that's the case of course, it's just how the same
people get all excited (often using capitals) to put their case over,
along with effectively calling the OP 'stupid' for not only
considering such?

Someone might not want to go out and *buy* a long / wide / strong
enough ratchet strap to possibly leave somewhere where it might get
stolen, or want something like that that people might walk into ...
and might have loads of rope at hand, ready to do the job with. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

Use one rope, tie as tight as you can.
Then another rope to get it tighter.
Then back to the first rope

In message , T i m
writes
Snip
The truckers hitch lets you get a lot more
tension on the rope and is much easier to adjust over time too.

A truckers hitch offers no more tension that a looped rope an would
offer less if the single part of the rope was on it's strength limits
(compared with two parts).

er.. I think he is correct!

I never learned to do them but my father was an adept.

You gain more mechanical advantage by doubling the final loop.
Potentially x2 but some extra frictional losses.

--
Tim Lamb

George Miles Wrote in message:
Use one rope, tie as tight as you can.Then another rope to get it tighter.Then back to the first rope

Hey Guys

Thanks to all respondents.

To fill in one or two gaps here...

The reason for the tie is to encourage the tree back vertical.
It has been under the spreading canopy of a copper beach tree and
dived off to one side in search of light.
The copper canopy has gone so hopefully the apple tree will head
back vertical anyway.

For those suggesting more than rope tensioning, I do have a 3/4
tonne pull lift somewhere, but wanted to take a more gentle
approach.

I have used one of the more basic trucker's hitch configurations.
I say more basic, cos it seems you can increase the number of
lower rope parts and reduce the effort needed. As my anchor is
round the base of a tree, I think friction would negate any
benefit that might bring.

I'd like to say I will commit this knot to memory, but every year
that seems an increasingly unlikely state of affairs.

Phil
--


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On Sun, 5 Apr 2020 15:18:47 +0100, Tim Lamb
wrote:

In message , T i m
writes
Snip
The truckers hitch lets you get a lot more
tension on the rope and is much easier to adjust over time too.

A truckers hitch offers no more tension that a looped rope an would
offer less if the single part of the rope was on it's strength limits
(compared with two parts).

er.. I think he is correct!

No, he's knot mate. ;-)

I never learned to do them but my father was an adept.

As am I.

You gain more mechanical advantage by doubling the final loop.

Not compared with a double loop in the first place you can't (as I
suggested and he was countering)?

Potentially x2 but some extra frictional losses.

There are more frictional looses with my loop (round both trees as the
tension in both parts try to even out) but more strength / capability
in the bond because it has two parts over the entire path (for the
same spec rope etc). That means you could apply twice the tension
between the trees with two parts than one. ;-)

So he was saying a single line tied to the tree one and with his loop
at the other with a truckers hitch in one loop (where that bit is two
parts) offers greater mechanical advantage than when the rope itself
is passed round both trees and the same tension is applied in one (of
the two) parts (as with the truckers hitch)?

He is incorrect (as usual). ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On 05/04/2020 06:59:37, ARW wrote:
On 04/04/2020 22:34, Robin wrote:
On 04/04/2020 21:38, thescullster wrote:
Hi all

I am trying to encourage an apple tree in a certain direction by
Â* gradually pulling it over.
There is a copper beach tree nearby to act as the anchor for the
Â* rope tie.

What I need is a knot that can take up slack as I pull hard to
Â* bend the tree.
Anyone understand what I am trying to achieve and suggest the
Â* appropriate knot please?


I've tied 2 of the knots suggested in the distant past when helping
relatives on HGVs or trying single rope caving techniques.


But in the 21st century unless pennies are tight I'd say sod that and
buy a heavy ratchet strap.


+1

And the webbing is wider than rope and so cut into the tree much less.

I was also thinking spreading out the force with multiple straps rather
than through a single contact point. Again causing less damage.

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 5 Apr 2020 09:31:43 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"T i m" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 4 Apr 2020 21:38:37 +0100 (GMT+01:00), thescullster
wrote:

Hi all

I am trying to encourage an apple tree in a certain direction by
gradually pulling it over.
There is a copper beach tree nearby to act as the anchor for the
rope tie.

What I need is a knot that can take up slack as I pull hard to
bend the tree.
Anyone understand what I am trying to achieve and suggest the
appropriate knot please?

I would have thought you just want to tie into a loop
of some sort and then do a half hitch to lock it off?

You'd be wrong.

reams of your **** flushed where it belongs

The truckers hitch lets you get a lot more tension on
the rope and is much easier to adjust over time too.

A truckers hitch offers no more tension that a looped rope

Wrong. It is in fact the equivalent of a block and
tackle system done entirely with just the one rope.

an would offer less if the single part of the rope was
on it's strength limits (compared with two parts).

You never could bull**** your way out of a wet paper bag.

On Mon, 6 Apr 2020 04:18:27 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH senile Ozzietard's latest troll**** unread

04:18??? CRETIN!

--
Richard addressing senile Rodent Speed:
"**** you're thick/pathetic excuse for a troll."
MID:

In message , T i m
writes
On Sun, 5 Apr 2020 15:18:47 +0100, Tim Lamb
wrote:

In message , T i m
writes
Snip
The truckers hitch lets you get a lot more
tension on the rope and is much easier to adjust over time too.

A truckers hitch offers no more tension that a looped rope an would
offer less if the single part of the rope was on it's strength limits
(compared with two parts).

er.. I think he is correct!

No, he's knot mate. ;-)

I never learned to do them but my father was an adept.

As am I.

You gain more mechanical advantage by doubling the final loop.

Not compared with a double loop in the first place you can't (as I
suggested and he was countering)?

Potentially x2 but some extra frictional losses.

There are more frictional looses with my loop (round both trees as the
tension in both parts try to even out) but more strength / capability
in the bond because it has two parts over the entire path (for the
same spec rope etc). That means you could apply twice the tension
between the trees with two parts than one. ;-)

So he was saying a single line tied to the tree one and with his loop
at the other with a truckers hitch in one loop (where that bit is two
parts) offers greater mechanical advantage than when the rope itself
is passed round both trees and the same tension is applied in one (of
the two) parts (as with the truckers hitch)?

He is incorrect (as usual). ;-)

Have it your way:-) All I am saying is that the *Hauliers Hitch*
(Hertfordshire usage) can have a mechanical advantage beyond your
double loop by using more than one loop to make the final connection.

--
Tim Lamb

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 05 Apr 2020 10:36:54 +0100, Davidm
wrote:
snip


And trying to do WTH a knot what a ratchet strap is DESIGNED TO DO is
just stupid.
+1

But not what the OP was asking about.

This can be a big problem with a minority here, people assuming
that the OP hasn't already considered what they put forward.

But the OP may not have even considered a ratchet
strap and it may indeed be the best approach.

It doesn't matter if that's the case of course, it's just how the same
people get all excited (often using capitals) to put their case over,
along with effectively calling the OP 'stupid' for not only
considering such?

Someone might not want to go out and *buy* a long / wide / strong
enough ratchet strap to possibly leave somewhere where it might get
stolen, or want something like that that people might walk into ...
and might have loads of rope at hand, ready to do the job with. ;-)

"George Miles" wrote in message
...
Use one rope, tie as tight as you can.
Then another rope to get it tighter.
Then back to the first rope

Hopeless compare with a truckers hitch or a ratchet strap.

On Mon, 6 Apr 2020 05:00:18 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH senile Ozzietard's latest troll**** unread

--
Bod addressing abnormal senile quarreller Rot:
"Do you practice arguing with yourself in an empty room?"
MID:

On Mon, 6 Apr 2020 05:11:05 +1000, John_j, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

Use one rope, tie as tight as you can.
Then another rope to get it tighter.
Then back to the first rope

Hopeless compare with a truckers hitch or a ratchet strap.

You can shove your truckers hitch up yours, just like everything else,
cretin!

--
Norman Wells addressing trolling senile Rodent:
"Ah, the voice of scum speaks."
MID:

On 05/04/2020 19:50, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , T i m
writes
On Sun, 5 Apr 2020 15:18:47 +0100, Tim Lamb
wrote:

In message , T i m
writes
Snip
The truckers hitch lets you get a lot more
tension on the rope and is much easier to adjust over time too.

A truckers hitch offers no more tension that a looped rope an would
offer less if the single part of the rope was on it's strength limits
(compared with two parts).

er.. I think he is correct!

No, he's knot mate. ;-)

I never learned to do them but my father was an adept.

As am I.

You gain more mechanical advantage by doubling the final loop.

Not compared with a double loop in the first place you can't (as I
suggested and he was countering)?

Potentially x2 but some extra frictional losses.

There are more frictional looses with my loop (round both trees as the
tension in both parts try to even out) but more strength / capability
in the bond because it has two parts over the entire path (for the
same spec rope etc). That means you could apply twice the tension
between the trees with two parts than one. ;-)

So he was saying a single line tied to the tree one and with his loop
at the other with a truckers hitch in one loop (where that bit is two
parts) offers greater mechanical advantage than when the rope itself
is passed round both trees and the same tension is applied in one (of
the two) parts (as with the truckers hitch)?

He is incorrect (as usual). ;-)

Have it your way:-) All I am saying is that the *Hauliers Hitch*
(Hertfordshire usage)Â* can have a mechanical advantage beyond your
double loop by using more than one loop to make the final connection.


+ 1 (or more!) - but I never managed to tie one



--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On Mon, 6 Apr 2020 04:18:27 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"T i m" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 5 Apr 2020 09:31:43 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 4 Apr 2020 21:38:37 +0100 (GMT+01:00), thescullster
wrote:

Hi all

I am trying to encourage an apple tree in a certain direction by
gradually pulling it over.
There is a copper beach tree nearby to act as the anchor for the
rope tie.

What I need is a knot that can take up slack as I pull hard to
bend the tree.
Anyone understand what I am trying to achieve and suggest the
appropriate knot please?

I would have thought you just want to tie into a loop
of some sort and then do a half hitch to lock it off?

You'd be wrong.

reams of your **** flushed where it belongs

Pathetic coward.

The truckers hitch lets you get a lot more tension on
the rope and is much easier to adjust over time too.

A https://m.facebook.com/video_redirec...52&__tn__=FH-R offers no more tension that a looped rope

Wrong. It is in fact the equivalent of a block and
tackle system done entirely with just the one rope.

I know, I can use Wiki as well as you.

So, try to explain how a loop formed on the end of a single part and
tied to the loose end of a complete loop around both trees, tensioned
and tied off is any different to a single rope with a loop and a
truckers hitch?

Good luck with that.

an would offer less if the single part of the rope was
on it's strength limits (compared with two parts).

You never could bull**** your way out of a wet paper bag.

And you are still a sad and pathetic loser.

Cheers, T i m

On Sun, 05 Apr 2020 20:56:18 +0100, Robin wrote:

On 05/04/2020 19:50, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , T i m
writes
On Sun, 5 Apr 2020 15:18:47 +0100, Tim Lamb
wrote:

In message , T i m
writes Snip
The truckers hitch lets you get a lot more tension on the rope and
is much easier to adjust over time too.

A truckers hitch offers no more tension that a looped rope an would
offer less if the single part of the rope was on it's strength
limits (compared with two parts).

er.. I think he is correct!

No, he's knot mate. ;-)

I never learned to do them but my father was an adept.

As am I.

You gain more mechanical advantage by doubling the final loop.

Not compared with a double loop in the first place you can't (as I
suggested and he was countering)?

Potentially x2 but some extra frictional losses.

There are more frictional looses with my loop (round both trees as the
tension in both parts try to even out) but more strength / capability
in the bond because it has two parts over the entire path (for the
same spec rope etc). That means you could apply twice the tension
between the trees with two parts than one. ;-)

So he was saying a single line tied to the tree one and with his loop
at the other with a truckers hitch in one loop (where that bit is two
parts) offers greater mechanical advantage than when the rope itself
is passed round both trees and the same tension is applied in one (of
the two) parts (as with the truckers hitch)?

He is incorrect (as usual). ;-)

Have it your way:-) All I am saying is that the *Hauliers Hitch*
(Hertfordshire usage)Â* can have a mechanical advantage beyond your
double loop by using more than one loop to make the final connection.


+ 1 (or more!) - but I never managed to tie one

I'm with you and Tim L. Dad used to call them a Carter's knot (from
Horse and Cart days) and were the first I learnt to tie.

On 05/04/2020 13:36, T i m wrote:
On Sun, 05 Apr 2020 10:36:54 +0100, Davidm
wrote:
snip

And trying to do WTH a knot what a ratchet strap is DESIGNED TO DO is
just stupid.
+1
But not what the OP was asking about.

But it's probably what he should have asked about.

I'd be concerned about damage to the bark of the trees. Anything that
slides over them will cut into the bark.

I'd probably use a bit of old mainsheet and a jammer, with cloth padding
under a bowline around each tree. But I doubt he'll have an old
mainsheet or a jammer. Ratchet blocks are cheap and easy.

Andy