Hi All,

My 3.5 year old Toshiba 32" widescreen has died, due to a faulty picture
tube. The problem is that now and again the green gun overloads, filling the
screen with a green zig-zag pattern, then the TV shuts down. The repair shop
say this is due to a bad design in the picture tube, causing overheating.
This is a well known problem in this tube (Philips) apparently, and this
tube is no longer used in new products.

Now, my question is, can I get Toshiba to provide me with a replacement
picture tube without me having to pay for it? IMHO, the set was very very
expensive when I bought it, and a three and a half year life span is simply
unacceptable for something like this. Is there any recourse under UK law to
do this? I was thinking about going along the usual "fit for purpose" and
"merchantable quality" lines. Does anyone know of any successes/failures of
people trying to do this?

I've googled around, but couldn't see anything. I swear I read/heard
something about forcing electronics manufacturers to repair out with
warranty, but I can't remember or find the source.

Thanks in advance,

Fraser.

On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 18:52:40 -0000, "Fraser" wrote:

Hi All,

My 3.5 year old Toshiba 32" widescreen has died, due to a faulty picture
tube. The problem is that now and again the green gun overloads, filling the
screen with a green zig-zag pattern, then the TV shuts down. The repair shop
say this is due to a bad design in the picture tube, causing overheating.
This is a well known problem in this tube (Philips) apparently, and this
tube is no longer used in new products.

Now, my question is, can I get Toshiba to provide me with a replacement
picture tube without me having to pay for it? IMHO, the set was very very
expensive when I bought it, and a three and a half year life span is simply
unacceptable for something like this. Is there any recourse under UK law to
do this? I was thinking about going along the usual "fit for purpose" and
"merchantable quality" lines. Does anyone know of any successes/failures of
people trying to do this?

I've googled around, but couldn't see anything. I swear I read/heard
something about forcing electronics manufacturers to repair out with
warranty, but I can't remember or find the source.

Thanks in advance,

Fraser.
I have seen it suggested in this NG -uk.diy,that 6 years is a reasonable
time to expect such items to "live" but haven't seen anything to back this
up.
Stuart

On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 18:52:40 -0000, "Fraser" wrote:

Hi All,

My 3.5 year old Toshiba 32" widescreen has died, due to a faulty picture
tube. The problem is that now and again the green gun overloads, filling the
screen with a green zig-zag pattern, then the TV shuts down. The repair shop
say this is due to a bad design in the picture tube, causing overheating.
This is a well known problem in this tube (Philips) apparently, and this
tube is no longer used in new products.

Now, my question is, can I get Toshiba to provide me with a replacement
picture tube without me having to pay for it? IMHO, the set was very very
expensive when I bought it, and a three and a half year life span is simply
unacceptable for something like this. Is there any recourse under UK law to
do this? I was thinking about going along the usual "fit for purpose" and
"merchantable quality" lines. Does anyone know of any successes/failures of
people trying to do this?

I've googled around, but couldn't see anything. I swear I read/heard
something about forcing electronics manufacturers to repair out with
warranty, but I can't remember or find the source.

Thanks in advance,

Fraser.


It isn't the manufacturer's issue directly, it is the retailer's.

Your contract of purchase is with the retailer and not the
manufacturer. The warranty is merely a convenience for both the
retailer and the manufacturer, and during that period they are
agreeing, subject to certain terms and conditions to fix problems.

The warranty does not replace your statutory rights. Goods do have to
be fit for purpose but reasonableness would be applied by the courts.
In other words, if this were a cheap Chinese TV costing £100 then if
it failed after 3 years it would probably not be worth pursuing since
you probably would not be awarded much if anything.

From a technical perspective, I would expect a CRT in a quality TV to
last a good 5 years depending on amount of use.

Given this and that the product was expensive, I think that you can
make a very reasonable case to the retailer that it needs to be
addressed at his cost. It's his problem if he wants to take that up
with the manufacturer but the buck stops with the retailer from your
perspective.

I would suggest contacting the manager of the store where you bought
the product and if need be the area manager. If you meet with
resistance, put the claim in writing and send by special delivery.

You have the option of pursuing a complaint through the Small Claims
Division of the court. This can be done as a DIY exercise. In the
context of a TV, I would not consider using a solicitor for this
because the meter will run rapidly.

Ultimately you have to decide whether the time and cost of pursuing
are justified.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Fraser.
I have seen it suggested in this NG -uk.diy,that 6 years is a reasonable
time to expect such items to "live" but haven't seen anything to back this
up.
Stuart

Have a look on www.tradingstandards.gov.uk they have a lot of information in
their advice leaflet's.

If I were you, I would give Trading Standards a call, and see what they feel
about it - they will advise you of what to do if they feel you have
reasonable grounds.

Just enter your postcode on their site, and it will give you the phone
number of a local office.

Sparks...

In article ,
Fraser wrote:
My 3.5 year old Toshiba 32" widescreen has died, due to a faulty picture
tube. The problem is that now and again the green gun overloads, filling
the screen with a green zig-zag pattern, then the TV shuts down. The
repair shop say this is due to a bad design in the picture tube, causing
overheating. This is a well known problem in this tube (Philips)
apparently, and this tube is no longer used in new products.

They're pulling your plonker. I can't think of any tube fault that would
cause a zig-zag pattern - or to cause the SMPS to shut down the set.

--
*Even a blind pig stumbles across an acorn now and again *

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

"Fraser" wrote in message
...
Hi All,

My 3.5 year old Toshiba 32" widescreen has died, due to a faulty picture
tube. The problem is that now and again the green gun overloads, filling
the
screen with a green zig-zag pattern, then the TV shuts down. The repair
shop
say this is due to a bad design in the picture tube, causing overheating.
This is a well known problem in this tube (Philips) apparently, and this
tube is no longer used in new products.

Now, my question is, can I get Toshiba to provide me with a replacement
picture tube without me having to pay for it? IMHO, the set was very very
expensive when I bought it, and a three and a half year life span is
simply
unacceptable for something like this. Is there any recourse under UK law
to
do this? I was thinking about going along the usual "fit for purpose" and
"merchantable quality" lines. Does anyone know of any successes/failures
of
people trying to do this?

I've googled around, but couldn't see anything. I swear I read/heard
something about forcing electronics manufacturers to repair out with
warranty, but I can't remember or find the source.

Thanks in advance,

Well all I can say is if you enjoy viewing anything in widescreen format you
deserve all you get, its a bloody stupid format, which seems set
to ruin my TV enjoyment for ever. If your TV won't work have a look
out of you letter box, you will get a similar effect to WS.
I believe I mentioned here earlier that WS tubes would be more
prone to failure for various reason which I won't explore here.
Why not but a portable and a mignifying lens which stretches the
picture horizontally? It will be a lot cheaper and more reliable.

I doubt you will have much luck complaining, because you bought
a WS in the first place you are already marked out as a mug with
more money than sense, so they will not be forthcoming.

Harsh word I know, but true.
But anyway have a Merry Xmas.


--
---------------
regards half_pint



Fraser.

"Fraser" wrote in message
...
Hi All,

My 3.5 year old Toshiba 32" widescreen has died, due to a faulty picture
tube. The problem is that now and again the green gun overloads, filling
the
screen with a green zig-zag pattern, then the TV shuts down. The repair
shop
say this is due to a bad design in the picture tube, causing overheating.
This is a well known problem in this tube (Philips) apparently, and this
tube is no longer used in new products.

Now, my question is, can I get Toshiba to provide me with a replacement
picture tube without me having to pay for it? IMHO, the set was very very
expensive when I bought it, and a three and a half year life span is
simply
unacceptable for something like this. Is there any recourse under UK law
to
do this? I was thinking about going along the usual "fit for purpose" and
"merchantable quality" lines. Does anyone know of any successes/failures
of
people trying to do this?

I've googled around, but couldn't see anything. I swear I read/heard
something about forcing electronics manufacturers to repair out with
warranty, but I can't remember or find the source.

Thanks in advance,

Fraser.



have a look at:

it is up ro you to show that the fault was inherent at time of purchase, you
can persue a claim against the retailer up to 6 years after purchase - 6
years is an absolute limit and does not apply to all goods as a matter of
course

http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/c...V0054-1111.txt
http://www.dti.gov.uk/ccp/topics1/fa...legoodsact.htm
http://www.dti.gov.uk/ccp/topics1/saleandsupply.htm

there is a good posting at:

http://www.google.com/groups?hl=en&l...0,993964144,99
3893351,993881376,993859354,993879828,993859643,99 3374340&seekm=brjuh9%24416
kb%241%40ID-176063.news.uni-berlin.de#link16

On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 19:20:05 +0000, Stuart
wrote:

On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 18:52:40 -0000, "Fraser" wrote:

Hi All,

My 3.5 year old Toshiba 32" widescreen has died, due to a faulty picture
tube. The problem is that now and again the green gun overloads, filling the
screen with a green zig-zag pattern, then the TV shuts down. The repair shop
say this is due to a bad design in the picture tube, causing overheating.
This is a well known problem in this tube (Philips) apparently, and this
tube is no longer used in new products.

Now, my question is, can I get Toshiba to provide me with a replacement
picture tube without me having to pay for it? IMHO, the set was very very
expensive when I bought it, and a three and a half year life span is simply
unacceptable for something like this. Is there any recourse under UK law to
do this? I was thinking about going along the usual "fit for purpose" and
"merchantable quality" lines. Does anyone know of any successes/failures of
people trying to do this?

I've googled around, but couldn't see anything. I swear I read/heard
something about forcing electronics manufacturers to repair out with
warranty, but I can't remember or find the source.

Thanks in advance,

Fraser.
I have seen it suggested in this NG -uk.diy,that 6 years is a reasonable
time to expect such items to "live" but haven't seen anything to back this
up.
Stuart

Not quite.

There is a 6 year statute of limitations. This means that you have up
to 6 years following purchase to pursue a claim. It does not mean
that the law is providing the equivalent to a 6 year warranty. A test
of reasonableness in the context of the item, its price, the market
and the circumstance is used.





..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 19:51:03 -0000, "half_pint"
wrote:


"Fraser" wrote in message
...
Hi All,

My 3.5 year old Toshiba 32" widescreen has died, due to a faulty picture
tube. The problem is that now and again the green gun overloads, filling
the
screen with a green zig-zag pattern, then the TV shuts down. The repair
shop
say this is due to a bad design in the picture tube, causing overheating.
This is a well known problem in this tube (Philips) apparently, and this
tube is no longer used in new products.

Now, my question is, can I get Toshiba to provide me with a replacement
picture tube without me having to pay for it? IMHO, the set was very very
expensive when I bought it, and a three and a half year life span is
simply
unacceptable for something like this. Is there any recourse under UK law
to
do this? I was thinking about going along the usual "fit for purpose" and
"merchantable quality" lines. Does anyone know of any successes/failures
of
people trying to do this?

I've googled around, but couldn't see anything. I swear I read/heard
something about forcing electronics manufacturers to repair out with
warranty, but I can't remember or find the source.

Thanks in advance,

Well all I can say is if you enjoy viewing anything in widescreen format you
deserve all you get, its a bloody stupid format, which seems set
to ruin my TV enjoyment for ever.

That is so nice to hear.

If your TV won't work have a look
out of you letter box, you will get a similar effect to WS.
I believe I mentioned here earlier that WS tubes would be more
prone to failure for various reason which I won't explore here.

Good, because with your incredibly limited knowledge of electronics we
know you will get it totally wrong.

Why not but a portable and a mignifying lens which stretches the
picture horizontally? It will be a lot cheaper and more reliable.

I doubt you will have much luck complaining, because you bought
a WS in the first place you are already marked out as a mug with
more money than sense, so they will not be forthcoming.

Harsh word I know, but true.
But anyway have a Merry Xmas.

--
Bob.

The difference between ordinary stupid and extraordinary stupid can be
summed up in one word -- YOU.

Fraser wrote:

Hi All,

My 3.5 year old Toshiba 32" widescreen has died, due to a faulty picture
tube. The problem is that now and again the green gun overloads, filling the
screen with a green zig-zag pattern, then the TV shuts down. The repair shop
say this is due to a bad design in the picture tube, causing overheating.
This is a well known problem in this tube (Philips) apparently, and this
tube is no longer used in new products.

Now, my question is, can I get Toshiba to provide me with a replacement
picture tube without me having to pay for it? IMHO, the set was very very
expensive when I bought it, and a three and a half year life span is simply
unacceptable for something like this. Is there any recourse under UK law to
do this? I was thinking about going along the usual "fit for purpose" and
"merchantable quality" lines. Does anyone know of any successes/failures of
people trying to do this?

I've googled around, but couldn't see anything. I swear I read/heard
something about forcing electronics manufacturers to repair out with
warranty, but I can't remember or find the source.

Thanks in advance,

Fraser.


It sounds like a heater to cathode short in the green gun. This can
usually be worked around by isolating the heaters from ground. I've
done it many times in other TVs with good results. If you can't get a
new CRT for a reasonable price someone may be able to try this.
--
Andy Cuffe

Where we are located, we are under similar law to that of the UK. The
warranty has to comply to the purchase agreement contract. TV's without an
extended warranty are sold with a one year contract. You can optionally
purchase more time.

If the tube goes one day after the warranty, the manufacture is legally not
obliged to change it, or service the set. I tell people that for the little
more than the cost of the TV set, it is best to buy the extended warranty.
Servicing a TV set can be expensive. The few extra dollars for the extended
warranty can be well worth the investment.

I have heard some people saying that the dealers make a lot of money on
these warranties. Actually this is not very true. The mark-up on all these
products is not very great. If the set turns out to be a lemon, the
manufacture will end up paying the cost of service, and maybe even the
exchange the set for a new one.

--

Greetings,

Jerry Greenberg GLG Technologies GLG
=========================================
WebPage http://www.zoom-one.com
Electronics http://www.zoom-one.com/electron.htm
=========================================


"Fraser" wrote in message
...
Hi All,

My 3.5 year old Toshiba 32" widescreen has died, due to a faulty picture
tube. The problem is that now and again the green gun overloads, filling the
screen with a green zig-zag pattern, then the TV shuts down. The repair shop
say this is due to a bad design in the picture tube, causing overheating.
This is a well known problem in this tube (Philips) apparently, and this
tube is no longer used in new products.

Now, my question is, can I get Toshiba to provide me with a replacement
picture tube without me having to pay for it? IMHO, the set was very very
expensive when I bought it, and a three and a half year life span is simply
unacceptable for something like this. Is there any recourse under UK law to
do this? I was thinking about going along the usual "fit for purpose" and
"merchantable quality" lines. Does anyone know of any successes/failures of
people trying to do this?

I've googled around, but couldn't see anything. I swear I read/heard
something about forcing electronics manufacturers to repair out with
warranty, but I can't remember or find the source.

Thanks in advance,

Fraser.

In article , Dave Plowman
writes

They're pulling your plonker. I can't think of any tube fault that would
cause a zig-zag pattern - or to cause the SMPS to shut down the set.

It's quite common. A cathode short in one of the RGB guns will cause
the entire screen to turn that colour, and the zig-zag pattern is the
retrace lines. As the cathodes are fed from a ~200v supply, the load
caused by a short on this can cause the PSU to go into shutdown to
protect itself.

In article , Chris Street
writes

That's not a tube fault.

It most likely is I'm afraid. A fault in the drive electronics would
result in a permanent failure. The OP says the fault is intermittent.

On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 23:23:40 -0500, "Jerry G."
wrote:

Where we are located, we are under similar law to that of the UK. The
warranty has to comply to the purchase agreement contract. TV's without an
extended warranty are sold with a one year contract. You can optionally
purchase more time.

I have no idea what Canada does, but in this respect it is not similar
to the UK. The manufacturer and the retailer can provision whatever
kind of warranty that they like, but it is only a convenience.



If the tube goes one day after the warranty, the manufacture is legally not
obliged to change it, or service the set.

In the UK the retailer may be, and a test of reasonableness,
accounting for the type of goods and the price is considered by the
court if the customer wishes to pursue it.

Retailers and manufacturers do quite well out of customer's ignorance
of the law and a natural British reticence to complain.

I tell people that for the little
more than the cost of the TV set, it is best to buy the extended warranty.

I'll bet.


Servicing a TV set can be expensive.

What a surprise.

The few extra dollars for the extended
warranty can be well worth the investment.

A few extra dollars!? In the UK, extended warranties can be 20-25%
of the new price of a set.


I have heard some people saying that the dealers make a lot of money on
these warranties.

Here they do. The retailers push them like hell to boost their
margins. In reality, all that is achieved is the customer not
having to argue their statutory rights with the retailer. Even then,
there is typically no guaranteed time to repair.

Actually this is not very true. The mark-up on all these
products is not very great.

Yeah, right.

If the set turns out to be a lemon, the
manufacture will end up paying the cost of service, and maybe even the
exchange the set for a new one.


As indeed they should do. However, here that is not the customer's
issue it's the retailer's.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Stuart" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 18:52:40 -0000, "Fraser" wrote:

Hi All,

My 3.5 year old Toshiba 32" widescreen has died, due to a faulty picture
snip.
This is a well known problem in this tube (Philips) apparently, and this
tube is no longer used in new products.
snip

Join the club Stuart...

Try a Philips 32" widescreen failing after 18 months...

--
Jet
(watching a Sharpe set this Christmas)

In article ,
Fraser wrote:
Hi All,

My 3.5 year old Toshiba 32" widescreen has died, due to a faulty picture
tube. The problem is that now and again the green gun overloads, filling the
screen with a green zig-zag pattern, then the TV shuts down. The repair shop
say this is due to a bad design in the picture tube, causing overheating.
This is a well known problem in this tube (Philips) apparently, and this
tube is no longer used in new products.

Now, my question is, can I get Toshiba to provide me with a replacement
picture tube without me having to pay for it? IMHO, the set was very very
expensive when I bought it, and a three and a half year life span is simply
unacceptable for something like this. Is there any recourse under UK law to
do this? I was thinking about going along the usual "fit for purpose" and
"merchantable quality" lines. Does anyone know of any successes/failures of
people trying to do this?

I've googled around, but couldn't see anything. I swear I read/heard
something about forcing electronics manufacturers to repair out with
warranty, but I can't remember or find the source.

You have rights under the consumer purchase (or whatever it's called) law
and should be able to get a replacement of it meneded free of charge. A
judge would also find a 3.5 year lifespan unaccepatable.


Go back to shop and ask them to replace or repair it free of charge. Be
polite etc.

If they say no tell them you are prepared to do it the 'hard way'.

Go back home and write a recorded letter saying what you want doing. Keep
it short and polite.

Then make a claim under small claims. Info on web sites.

All a bit time consuming but you can claim for time taken off work and
travel expenses, and you may find the claim process galvanises the shop
into action before going to court.

Good luck,

Neil

Could be a fault in the drive circuits, not the tube.
If it is the tube and Toshiba will not replace it, the tech should be able
to isolate the filiment from ground by using a seperate winding on the
flyback core. Worth a shot before buying a new tv.

Bill
Christian Technology

"Fraser" wrote in message
...
Hi All,

My 3.5 year old Toshiba 32" widescreen has died, due to a faulty picture
tube. The problem is that now and again the green gun overloads, filling
the
screen with a green zig-zag pattern, then the TV shuts down. The repair
shop
say this is due to a bad design in the picture tube, causing overheating.
This is a well known problem in this tube (Philips) apparently, and this
tube is no longer used in new products.

Now, my question is, can I get Toshiba to provide me with a replacement
picture tube without me having to pay for it? IMHO, the set was very very
expensive when I bought it, and a three and a half year life span is
simply
unacceptable for something like this. Is there any recourse under UK law
to
do this? I was thinking about going along the usual "fit for purpose" and
"merchantable quality" lines. Does anyone know of any successes/failures
of
people trying to do this?

I've googled around, but couldn't see anything. I swear I read/heard
something about forcing electronics manufacturers to repair out with
warranty, but I can't remember or find the source.

Thanks in advance,

Fraser.

Fraser wrote:

Hi All,

My 3.5 year old Toshiba 32" widescreen has died, due to a faulty picture
tube. The problem is that now and again the green gun overloads, filling the
screen with a green zig-zag pattern, then the TV shuts down. The repair shop
say this is due to a bad design in the picture tube, causing overheating.
This is a well known problem in this tube (Philips) apparently, and this
tube is no longer used in new products.


I have a sony that is tsill doing this after over two years of
intermittent problems.

Its not worth fixing: Tube plus labor is pretty much new set.



Now, my question is, can I get Toshiba to provide me with a replacement
picture tube without me having to pay for it? IMHO, the set was very very
expensive when I bought it, and a three and a half year life span is simply
unacceptable for something like this. Is there any recourse under UK law to
do this? I was thinking about going along the usual "fit for purpose" and
"merchantable quality" lines. Does anyone know of any successes/failures of
people trying to do this?

I've googled around, but couldn't see anything. I swear I read/heard
something about forcing electronics manufacturers to repair out with
warranty, but I can't remember or find the source.

Thanks in advance,

Fraser.

"Bill Renfro" wrote in message ...
Could be a fault in the drive circuits, not the tube.
If it is the tube and Toshiba will not replace it, the tech should be able
to isolate the filiment from ground by using a seperate winding on the
flyback core. Worth a shot before buying a new tv.

Bill
Christian Technology

Entirely correct. And adding a new winding onto the LOPTF is very
easy. But dont DIY it as there are important issues you wont
appreciate unless you have some electronic knowledge.

A cathode to heater short is not too bad as it can be worked round.


Regards, NT

For guidance relevant in England see
http://www.oxon-tss.org.uk/cgi-bin/c...V0006-1011.txt

(Niel A. Farrow) wrote in message ...
In article ,
Fraser wrote:
Hi All,

My 3.5 year old Toshiba 32" widescreen has died, due to a faulty picture
tube. The problem is that now and again the green gun overloads, filling the
screen with a green zig-zag pattern, then the TV shuts down. The repair shop
say this is due to a bad design in the picture tube, causing overheating.
This is a well known problem in this tube (Philips) apparently, and this
tube is no longer used in new products.

Now, my question is, can I get Toshiba to provide me with a replacement
picture tube without me having to pay for it? IMHO, the set was very very
expensive when I bought it, and a three and a half year life span is simply
unacceptable for something like this. Is there any recourse under UK law to
do this? I was thinking about going along the usual "fit for purpose" and
"merchantable quality" lines. Does anyone know of any successes/failures of
people trying to do this?

I've googled around, but couldn't see anything. I swear I read/heard
something about forcing electronics manufacturers to repair out with
warranty, but I can't remember or find the source.

You have rights under the consumer purchase (or whatever it's called) law
and should be able to get a replacement of it meneded free of charge. A
judge would also find a 3.5 year lifespan unaccepatable.


Go back to shop and ask them to replace or repair it free of charge. Be
polite etc.

If they say no tell them you are prepared to do it the 'hard way'.

Go back home and write a recorded letter saying what you want doing. Keep
it short and polite.

Then make a claim under small claims. Info on web sites.

All a bit time consuming but you can claim for time taken off work and
travel expenses, and you may find the claim process galvanises the shop
into action before going to court.

Good luck,

Neil

"Bob Brenchley." wrote in message
...
On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 19:51:03 -0000, "half_pint"
wrote:


"Fraser" wrote in message
...
Hi All,

My 3.5 year old Toshiba 32" widescreen has died, due to a faulty
picture
tube. The problem is that now and again the green gun overloads,
filling
the
screen with a green zig-zag pattern, then the TV shuts down. The repair
shop
say this is due to a bad design in the picture tube, causing
overheating.
This is a well known problem in this tube (Philips) apparently, and
this
tube is no longer used in new products.

Now, my question is, can I get Toshiba to provide me with a replacement
picture tube without me having to pay for it? IMHO, the set was very
very
expensive when I bought it, and a three and a half year life span is
simply
unacceptable for something like this. Is there any recourse under UK
law
to
do this? I was thinking about going along the usual "fit for purpose"
and
"merchantable quality" lines. Does anyone know of any
successes/failures
of
people trying to do this?

I've googled around, but couldn't see anything. I swear I read/heard
something about forcing electronics manufacturers to repair out with
warranty, but I can't remember or find the source.

Thanks in advance,

Well all I can say is if you enjoy viewing anything in widescreen format
you
deserve all you get, its a bloody stupid format, which seems set
to ruin my TV enjoyment for ever.

That is so nice to hear.

If your TV won't work have a look
out of you letter box, you will get a similar effect to WS.
I believe I mentioned here earlier that WS tubes would be more
prone to failure for various reason which I won't explore here.

Good, because with your incredibly limited knowledge of electronics we
know you will get it totally wrong.


Garbage.
His post proves I am correct.


Why not but a portable and a mignifying lens which stretches the
picture horizontally? It will be a lot cheaper and more reliable.

I doubt you will have much luck complaining, because you bought
a WS in the first place you are already marked out as a mug with
more money than sense, so they will not be forthcoming.

Harsh word I know, but true.
But anyway have a Merry Xmas.


--
---------------
regards half_pint

--
Bob.

The difference between ordinary stupid and extraordinary stupid can be
summed up in one word -- YOU.

David Hemmings wrote:
On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 15:33:39 -0000, "half_pint"
wrote:


That is so nice to hear.

If your TV won't work have a look
out of you letter box, you will get a similar effect to WS.
I believe I mentioned here earlier that WS tubes would be more
prone to failure for various reason which I won't explore here.

Good, because with your incredibly limited knowledge of electronics
we know you will get it totally wrong.


Garbage.
His post proves I am correct.

to draw any conclusions from a study size of one is a total rubbish

I include the thousands who didn't post.

please go away and learn something useful before posting something you
allege is fact again.

btw, your post on WS is rubbish as well. I predominantly use my WS tv
to watch dvds as content from tv is generally crap, as you should know
16:9 is more representative than 4:3 for most transfers to dvd.

I dont watch DVD period.
Why should I suffer for you to indulge your fetish?

--
---------------
regards half_pint

On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 15:33:39 -0000, "half_pint"
wrote:

Garbage.
His post proves I am correct.

Never know it in this life. Please hurry forward to the next life
where you may have a brains and stand a chance of being right for
once.

--
Bob.

The difference between ordinary stupid and extraordinary stupid can be
summed up in one word -- YOU.

"Bob Brenchley." wrote in message
...
On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 15:33:39 -0000, "half_pint"
wrote:

Garbage.
His post proves I am correct.

Never know it in this life. Please hurry forward to the next life
where you may have a brains and stand a chance of being right for
once.

LOL the irony!!!!


--
---------------
regards half_pint

--
Bob.

The difference between ordinary stupid and extraordinary stupid can be
summed up in one word -- YOU.

"David Hemmings" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 16:18:05 -0000, "half_pint"
wrote:

David Hemmings wrote:
On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 15:33:39 -0000, "half_pint"
wrote:


That is so nice to hear.

If your TV won't work have a look
out of you letter box, you will get a similar effect to WS.
I believe I mentioned here earlier that WS tubes would be more
prone to failure for various reason which I won't explore here.

Good, because with your incredibly limited knowledge of electronics
we know you will get it totally wrong.


Garbage.
His post proves I am correct.

to draw any conclusions from a study size of one is a total rubbish

I include the thousands who didn't post.


For shame, did they ask you to post on their behalf, guessing and
misrepresentation don't count either.

please go away and learn something useful before posting something you
allege is fact again.

btw, your post on WS is rubbish as well. I predominantly use my WS tv
to watch dvds as content from tv is generally crap, as you should know
16:9 is more representative than 4:3 for most transfers to dvd.

I dont watch DVD period.
Why should I suffer for you to indulge your fetish?

****tard, i hardly think watching a film in the current best sound and
audio format a fetish. A 22:9 crt is definitely out of the question,
the 16:9 is the best compromise between those wanting to watch films
as they were intended

They were *intended* to be watched in a high capacity *cinema*,
hence the wide format, so everyone could sit near the screen.

(seeing as there is scare little tv programmes
of any merit anymore)

There is plenty of merit, if you find no merit in real life, ie news
sport, music, politics and comedy then maybe not.

and those desparately clinging to to past, i'm
surprised you don't argue that the colour guns make tvs less reliable.

Thalidomide was a new drug for pregnant women once.


What do you use you tv for, putting plants on ?

You can get more plants on a widescreen so no.


Niche - 4:3 tvs, VCR, good tv.......

On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 01:29:24 -0000, "half_pint"
wrote:

I dont watch DVD period.
Why should I suffer for you to indulge your fetish?

****tard, i hardly think watching a film in the current best sound and
audio format a fetish. A 22:9 crt is definitely out of the question,
the 16:9 is the best compromise between those wanting to watch films
as they were intended

They were *intended* to be watched in a high capacity *cinema*,
hence the wide format, so everyone could sit near the screen.

Rubbish - the shape of the cinema screen has nothing to do with the
seating.

In addition, as most films now make far more from the video/DVD
release then from the box office, and given the extra content the film
makers have to plan for the DVD, their thoughts are always with the
home viewer.

(seeing as there is scare little tv programmes
of any merit anymore)

There is plenty of merit, if you find no merit in real life, ie news
sport, music, politics and comedy then maybe not.

and those desparately clinging to to past, i'm
surprised you don't argue that the colour guns make tvs less reliable.

Thalidomide was a new drug for pregnant women once.

And is now a highly successful drug in combatting a number of medical
problems.


What do you use you tv for, putting plants on ?

You can get more plants on a widescreen so no.


Niche - 4:3 tvs, VCR, good tv.......

Widescreen TV - giving you a more natural view on the world.

--
Bob.

If brains were taxed, you would get a rebate.

On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 10:37:25 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
wrote:

They were *intended* to be watched in a high capacity *cinema*,
hence the wide format, so everyone could sit near the screen.

Rubbish - the shape of the cinema screen has nothing to do with the
seating.

I agree. Let's ignore half_pint from now on....his views are clearly the
result of inverted snobbery, ignorance, envy...or all three.
--
Bob Eager
rde at tavi.co.uk
PC Server 325*4; PS/2s 9585, 8595, 9595*2, 8580*3,
P70...

On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 10:37:25 +0000, Bob Brenchley. wrote:

Widescreen TV - giving you a more natural view on the world.

splutter but still at a pathetic resolution. Not seen high
definition have you? Now that is an "open window".

Of course with the "never mind the quality, count the channels"
philosophy of UK broadcasters we are highly unlikely to see Hi-Def in
the UK for at least the next 10 years or more.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

In article ,
Bob Brenchley. wrote:
They were *intended* to be watched in a high capacity *cinema*,
hence the wide format, so everyone could sit near the screen.

Rubbish - the shape of the cinema screen has nothing to do with the
seating.

I seem to remember reading that widescreen cinema came in to combat TV in
the US - in the early days of TV it wasn't possible to make widescreen
tubes, the originals were actually round. And when colour TV arrived in
the UK, the tubes were 5:4 rather than the transmitted 4:3.

--
*Go the extra mile. It makes your boss look like an incompetent slacker *

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 11:35:21 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 10:37:25 +0000, Bob Brenchley. wrote:

Widescreen TV - giving you a more natural view on the world.

splutter but still at a pathetic resolution. Not seen high
definition have you? Now that is an "open window".

Yes, I have seen HDTV. Resolution though, has little to do with aspect
ratio.

Of course with the "never mind the quality, count the channels"
philosophy of UK broadcasters we are highly unlikely to see Hi-Def in
the UK for at least the next 10 years or more.

There is a growth of HDTV production in the States, but it has a long
way to go.

--
Bob.

The facts expressed here belong to everybody, the opinions to me. The
distinction is yours to draw...

On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 14:04:28 +0000, Bob Brenchley. wrote:

Widescreen TV - giving you a more natural view on the world.

splutter but still at a pathetic resolution. Not seen high
definition have you? Now that is an "open window".

Yes, I have seen HDTV. Resolution though, has little to do with
aspect ratio.

But has a lot to do with "a more natural view". B-)

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 10:37:25 UTC, Bob Brenchley.
wrote:

They were *intended* to be watched in a high capacity *cinema*,
hence the wide format, so everyone could sit near the screen.

Rubbish - the shape of the cinema screen has nothing to do with the
seating.

I agree. Let's ignore half_pint from now on....his views are clearly the
result of inverted snobbery, ignorance, envy...or all three.

And your views are those of a mindless simpleton who will happily buy
what ever the salesman pushes his way, even though from experience
he knows 99% is overpriced useless garbage.

"I bet my neighbour has not got one of these" is his prime motivation.


--
---------------
regards half_pint

Bob Eager
rde at tavi.co.uk
PC Server 325*4; PS/2s 9585, 8595, 9595*2, 8580*3,
P70...

"Bob Brenchley." wrote in message
...
On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 01:29:24 -0000, "half_pint"
wrote:

I dont watch DVD period.
Why should I suffer for you to indulge your fetish?

****tard, i hardly think watching a film in the current best sound and
audio format a fetish. A 22:9 crt is definitely out of the question,
the 16:9 is the best compromise between those wanting to watch films
as they were intended

They were *intended* to be watched in a high capacity *cinema*,
hence the wide format, so everyone could sit near the screen.

Rubbish - the shape of the cinema screen has nothing to do with the
seating.


Of course you are wrong, you can build two widescreen cinemas in the
space used by one equivilant 4:3 picture. Thats the *only* resason
we ended up with this WS garbage. Nothing to do with that oh so
pretensious phrase "as the director intended" so go stick you fingers
in your ears and chant "I love my widescreen".
You have been brainwashed into buying widescreen, although how this
was achieved is perplexing since it implies you had a brain to wash.


In addition, as most films now make far more from the video/DVD
release then from the box office, and given the extra content the film
makers have to plan for the DVD, their thoughts are always with the
home viewer.

(seeing as there is scare little tv programmes
of any merit anymore)

There is plenty of merit, if you find no merit in real life, ie news
sport, music, politics and comedy then maybe not.

and those desparately clinging to to past, i'm
surprised you don't argue that the colour guns make tvs less reliable.

Thalidomide was a new drug for pregnant women once.

And is now a highly successful drug in combatting a number of medical
problems.


What do you use you tv for, putting plants on ?

You can get more plants on a widescreen so no.


Niche - 4:3 tvs, VCR, good tv.......

Widescreen TV - giving you a more natural view on the world.

--
Bob.

If brains were taxed, you would get a rebate.

On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 14:32:18 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 14:04:28 +0000, Bob Brenchley. wrote:

Widescreen TV - giving you a more natural view on the world.

splutter but still at a pathetic resolution. Not seen high
definition have you? Now that is an "open window".

Yes, I have seen HDTV. Resolution though, has little to do with
aspect ratio.

But has a lot to do with "a more natural view". B-)

Not really, 625 line PAL in 16:9 may not be a good as IMAX but it is
good enough up to the size of realistic size home TVs. Certainly a
person with average eyesight in an average room will have a more
natural view that the old 4:3 TV sets that half-brain thinks are
better.

--
Bob.

The facts expressed here belong to everybody, the opinions to me. The
distinction is yours to draw...

On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 15:20:56 -0000, "half_pint"
wrote:


"Bob Brenchley." wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 01:29:24 -0000, "half_pint"
wrote:

I dont watch DVD period.
Why should I suffer for you to indulge your fetish?

****tard, i hardly think watching a film in the current best sound and
audio format a fetish. A 22:9 crt is definitely out of the question,
the 16:9 is the best compromise between those wanting to watch films
as they were intended

They were *intended* to be watched in a high capacity *cinema*,
hence the wide format, so everyone could sit near the screen.

Rubbish - the shape of the cinema screen has nothing to do with the
seating.


Of course you are wrong, you can build two widescreen cinemas in the
space used by one equivilant 4:3 picture. Thats the *only* resason
we ended up with this WS garbage. Nothing to do with that oh so
pretensious phrase "as the director intended" so go stick you fingers
in your ears and chant "I love my widescreen".
You have been brainwashed into buying widescreen, although how this
was achieved is perplexing since it implies you had a brain to wash.

You do talk some rubbish - but the above really is setting new
standards.


In addition, as most films now make far more from the video/DVD
release then from the box office, and given the extra content the film
makers have to plan for the DVD, their thoughts are always with the
home viewer.

(seeing as there is scare little tv programmes
of any merit anymore)

There is plenty of merit, if you find no merit in real life, ie news
sport, music, politics and comedy then maybe not.

and those desparately clinging to to past, i'm
surprised you don't argue that the colour guns make tvs less reliable.

Thalidomide was a new drug for pregnant women once.

And is now a highly successful drug in combatting a number of medical
problems.


What do you use you tv for, putting plants on ?

You can get more plants on a widescreen so no.


Niche - 4:3 tvs, VCR, good tv.......

Widescreen TV - giving you a more natural view on the world.

--
Bob.

If brains were taxed, you would get a rebate.

Still can't use a newsreader I see.

--
Bob.

You couldn't get a clue during the clue mating season in a field full
of horny clues if you smeared your body with clue musk and did the
clue mating dance.

"half_pint" wrote in message
...

"Bob Brenchley." wrote in message
...
On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 01:29:24 -0000, "half_pint"
wrote:

I dont watch DVD period.
Why should I suffer for you to indulge your fetish?

I watch films in the aspect ratio they were made in, period. You wouldn't
take the Mona Lisa and cut some of it out to fit a nice frame you happen to
have available. And as TV generally sucks, most of my TV watching is movies.
So I have a widescreen TV. Must I apologise for that to you?


Of course you are wrong, you can build two widescreen cinemas in the
space used by one equivilant 4:3 picture. Thats the *only* resason
we ended up with this WS garbage. Nothing to do with that oh so
pretensious phrase "as the director intended" so go stick you fingers
in your ears and chant "I love my widescreen".

Nonsense, learn some film history. Widescreen came about as the movie
industries counter to television, which was affecting it's income. They were
still showing news reels etc at the time, which TV negated the need for, and
in many ways surpassed. Some directors didn't take to it for a long time,
Stanley Kubrik for example. Mind you, most of his films were also made in
mono sound!!


You have been brainwashed into buying widescreen, although how this
was achieved is perplexing since it implies you had a brain to wash.

No, this time learn some DVD history and consumer electronics marketing. The
first lot of people to buy DVD were the enthusiasts. We wanted digital
surround, multiple audio tracks, all that sort of thing. To be a success,
you have to get their buy in, then capture the public. Laser disk never got
popular with the enthusiasts, so it died. My player cost £750 at the time,
but that was with being chipped etc. Most of us want widescreen, so that's
the way it was. Releases got slated in all the review mags if they were
masked down to 4:3. DVDs were intended to be the "perfect" delivery
mechanism for movies, and cutting parts of the movie out didn't fit into
that picture.

Who exactly is doing this brainwashing anyway? :-) Does your tinfoil hat
protect you?


Widescreen TV - giving you a more natural view on the world.

Which is very true. Look at a blank wall and see how much of it you can see
without moving your eyes. Not much in the up & down department, but you've
got around 120 degrees (a lot) of horizontal view. The widest common format,
2.35:1, is a lot closer to this than TVs traditional 4:3. For framing
"normal" images, such as landscapes, groups of people, text/signs,
widescreen is more natural. Just look at the unusual ways people stand in
4:3 media, they usually much closer than normal people are in day-to-day
life. It's unnatural.

Fraser.

"Jerry G." wrote in message
...
Where we are located, we are under similar law to that of the UK. The
warranty has to comply to the purchase agreement contract. TV's without
an
extended warranty are sold with a one year contract. You can optionally
purchase more time.

If the tube goes one day after the warranty, the manufacture is legally
not
obliged to change it, or service the set.

Things are very different in the UK for this then, we get 6 years provided
the fault isn't "normal wear and tear" apparently.


I tell people that for the little
more than the cost of the TV set, it is best to buy the extended warranty.
Servicing a TV set can be expensive. The few extra dollars for the
extended
warranty can be well worth the investment.

I always tell people not to bother with these, except on items that will
have wear and tear. Usually things with moving parts like washing machines,
dishwashers etc. I'm usually capable of fixing most things, so I never
bother getting them myself.

For consumer electronics, if it's going to fail, the chances are that it'll
be within the first year. Solid state electronics are pretty reliable if
treated well and with the extended warranty often being up to 50% of the
purchase price, it's not worth it. Consider the value of the item at the end
of the term. Hi-tech gizmos often devalue quicker than cars. As an example,
when the Sony playstation was around £300, I took out an 5 year extended
warranty for around £120 IIRC. At the end of the term, the item cost £89
brand new. It's a gamble, but one usually worth taking.


I have heard some people saying that the dealers make a lot of money on
these warranties. Actually this is not very true. The mark-up on all these
products is not very great. If the set turns out to be a lemon, the
manufacture will end up paying the cost of service, and maybe even the
exchange the set for a new one.

In most large electronic stores in the UK, the staff get commission on these
but not purchases, so they push them hard. I've seen many articles and TV
shows on how bad they are, and given our consumer law they seem unnecessary
for a lot of things.

Things may be totally different where you are of course!!

Fraser.

"Dave Plowman" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Fraser wrote:
My 3.5 year old Toshiba 32" widescreen has died, due to a faulty picture
tube. The problem is that now and again the green gun overloads, filling
the screen with a green zig-zag pattern, then the TV shuts down. The
repair shop say this is due to a bad design in the picture tube, causing
overheating. This is a well known problem in this tube (Philips)
apparently, and this tube is no longer used in new products.

They're pulling your plonker. I can't think of any tube fault that would
cause a zig-zag pattern - or to cause the SMPS to shut down the set.

See post in response to Chris Steets post, I've put more details of the
fault on there.

Cheers,

Fraser.

Hope the weird posting doesn't confuse anyone, pulling all the techy stuff
into one place:


"Chris Street" wrote in message
...
The problem is that now and again the green gun overloads, filling the
screen with a green zig-zag pattern, then the TV shuts down.

That's not a tube fault. The line driver or frame flyback is up the
spout. Failures of the tube itself are very rare - it's always the high
voltage control circuits that tend to have problems.


"Andy Cuffe" wrote in message
...
It sounds like a heater to cathode short in the green gun. This can
usually be worked around by isolating the heaters from ground. I've
done it many times in other TVs with good results. If you can't get a
new CRT for a reasonable price someone may be able to try this.


What Andy said. :-) That's exactly what the guy at the repair shop said, and
they are waiting for me to get back to them on what the
retailer/manufacturer say.

The TV has always had a green tint as well, as if the bias was way off.
Tried using the service menu once to bring it down, but there was no change,
so I set it back to it's original setting. Don't know if that's related, but
worth a mention.


email me with the TV model and I'll ask a friend who does this sort of
thing what the cost to the retailer would be - may be handy to know.

Cool, that would be handy! It's a Toshiba 32W8DB.


Cheers,

Fraser.

"Kevin Thornton" wrote in message
...

it is up ro you to show that the fault was inherent at time of purchase,
you
can persue a claim against the retailer up to 6 years after purchase - 6
years is an absolute limit and does not apply to all goods as a matter of
course

The sites you list (which are pretty good btw, thanks) kinda differ from
that description though. There doesn't seem to be any mention of the fault
being inherent when the item is bought. What does seem to be the case is the
concept of a "resonable period" which would differ depending on the item.
Some examples of this are mentioned in the sites, e.g. a car oil filter
would be around a year, a new battery could discharge on-the-shelf in six
months. The upper limit, 6 years from purchase in England, 5 years from
fault discovery in Scotland (me) only applies to what you can actually bring
a civil court case up for. Obviously, if you can't do that, then the shop
really doesn't have to do anything.

For an expensive TV, the consensus seems to be that 3.5 years is
"unreasonable". Hopefully the store will see it that way!

Fraser.