"Fredxxx" wrote in message
...
On 06/10/2014 17:54, wrote:
On Monday, October 6, 2014 5:23:29 PM UTC+1,
wrote:
On Monday, October 6, 2014 2:34:36 PM UTC+1, Tim Watts wrote:

If I wanted to top myself, I'd use any inert gas except for CO2. One of
which is very readily available on the high street.

CO is fairly readily available if you know where to look.

Trivial to make in situ too. Not my first choice though.

Its a pretty easy way to go, first drowsy, then sleep, then death.

I don't know why executions aren't done that way.

I don't know why there are executions.


--
Adam

On 06/10/2014 21:31, Fredxxx wrote:
On 06/10/2014 17:54, wrote:
On Monday, October 6, 2014 5:23:29 PM UTC+1,
wrote:
On Monday, October 6, 2014 2:34:36 PM UTC+1, Tim Watts wrote:

If I wanted to top myself, I'd use any inert gas except for CO2. One of
which is very readily available on the high street.

CO is fairly readily available if you know where to look.

Trivial to make in situ too. Not my first choice though.

Its a pretty easy way to go, first drowsy, then sleep, then death.

I don't know why executions aren't done that way.

Doesn't satisfy the need for punishment - they've got to be made to
suffer. Yes, it's barbaric. Yes, even supposedly civilised places like
the US haven't worked this out everywhere. But they haven't even worked
out that killing people is not a good thing.

Fredxxx wrote
wrote
wrote
Tim Watts wrote

If I wanted to top myself, I'd use any inert gas except for CO2.
One of which is very readily available on the high street.

CO is fairly readily available if you know where to look.

Trivial to make in situ too. Not my first choice though.

Its a pretty easy way to go, first drowsy, then sleep, then death.

I don't know why executions aren't done that way.

Rather too slow presumably.

I don't know why they don't use what they kill
pets that have passed their useby date with.

Birds are sometimes killed with an inert gas tho.

Pure nitrogen would be another.

But rather harder to obtain for the average person.

Helium is very easy to obtain.

"ARW" wrote in message
...
"Fredxxx" wrote in message
...
On 06/10/2014 17:54, wrote:
On Monday, October 6, 2014 5:23:29 PM UTC+1,
wrote:
On Monday, October 6, 2014 2:34:36 PM UTC+1, Tim Watts wrote:

If I wanted to top myself, I'd use any inert gas except for CO2. One
of
which is very readily available on the high street.

CO is fairly readily available if you know where to look.

Trivial to make in situ too. Not my first choice though.

Its a pretty easy way to go, first drowsy, then sleep, then death.

I don't know why executions aren't done that way.

I don't know why there are executions.

It's a very effective way of ensuring that they don't murder anyone else.

On 06/10/14 21:31, Fredxxx wrote:
On 06/10/2014 17:54, wrote:
On Monday, October 6, 2014 5:23:29 PM UTC+1,
wrote:
On Monday, October 6, 2014 2:34:36 PM UTC+1, Tim Watts wrote:

If I wanted to top myself, I'd use any inert gas except for CO2. One of
which is very readily available on the high street.

CO is fairly readily available if you know where to look.

Trivial to make in situ too. Not my first choice though.

Its a pretty easy way to go, first drowsy, then sleep, then death.

And a headache.

On the plus side, your cold dead corpse would have a nice cherry
complexion...

I don't know why executions aren't done that way.

I don't either. Given the bizarre ways that have been concocted
including the "nice way" with drugs that isn't nice because noone will
supply the drugs any more, you would think that filling a chamber with
N2 would be a no brainer.

Pure nitrogen would be another.

On 06/10/14 21:31, Fredxxx wrote:
On 06/10/2014 17:54, wrote:
On Monday, October 6, 2014 5:23:29 PM UTC+1,
wrote:
On Monday, October 6, 2014 2:34:36 PM UTC+1, Tim Watts wrote:

If I wanted to top myself, I'd use any inert gas except for CO2. One of
which is very readily available on the high street.

CO is fairly readily available if you know where to look.

Trivial to make in situ too. Not my first choice though.

Its a pretty easy way to go, first drowsy, then sleep, then death.

I don't know why executions aren't done that way.

Pure nitrogen would be another.

If you can find a CO2 absorber, a simple re-breather works too.

On 07/10/2014 01:13, Rod Speed wrote:
Fredxxx wrote
wrote
wrote
Tim Watts wrote

If I wanted to top myself, I'd use any inert gas except for CO2.
One of which is very readily available on the high street.

CO is fairly readily available if you know where to look.

Trivial to make in situ too. Not my first choice though.

Its a pretty easy way to go, first drowsy, then sleep, then death.

I don't know why executions aren't done that way.

Rather too slow presumably.
I don't know why they don't use what they kill pets that have passed
their useby date with.
Birds are sometimes killed with an inert gas tho.
Pure nitrogen would be another.

But rather harder to obtain for the average person.
Helium is very easy to obtain.

For the ultimate 'light-headed' feeling?

--
F

In article ,
Rod Speed wrote:
I don't know why there are executions.

It's a very effective way of ensuring that they don't murder anyone
else.

Assuming they were correctly convicted in the first place.

Not much point in an appeal after execution.

--
*Virtual reality is its own reward *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote
Rod Speed wrote

I don't know why there are executions.

It's a very effective way of ensuring
that they don't murder anyone else.

Assuming they were correctly convicted in the first place.

Doesn’t assume anything, the executed
individual wont be able to murder anyone.

On Monday, 6 October 2014 14:34:36 UTC+1, Tim Watts wrote:
On 06/10/14 14:03, whisky-dave wrote:

No it's due to suicides as it's a common way top attempt it pill overdose


http://freakonomics.com/2011/05/17/w...ls-in-england/


Which is odd as it must the worst method possible.


Yep, that's the problem the people that think like this aren't thinking straight.



It either doesn't work or it takes so long to work that the victim
changes their mind by which time their liver is so buggered that death
is merely a matter of time - a horrible nasty painful time.

Yep, it's the simplest drug to take and the one most likely to be in the home in quantity. That's why they stopped selling large containers of 200 because people brought them to save money. Those considering suicide because they weanted to die or for attention just headed for the nearest bottle of pills.


If I wanted to top myself, I'd use any inert gas except for CO2.

So you have inert gas in your home just waiting to be used.



Most people that think of killing themselves do it on the spot and use whatever is to hand they don;t normally go out and purchase items. These people aren't normally in their 'right mind' at the time.



One of
which is very readily available on the high street.

So were asprins in large quantities and the majority of attempted suicides.

http://www.suicidemethods.net/suicide-methods/

guns illegal in the UK, so it's pills or join the armed forces to 'fight' in another country would be my suggestion.

On Tuesday, 7 October 2014 11:58:52 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote

Rod Speed wrote



I don't know why there are executions.



It's a very effective way of ensuring

that they don't murder anyone else.



Assuming they were correctly convicted in the first place.



Doesn't assume anything, the executed
individual wont be able to murder anyone.

Yep worked on Guy Fawkes

On 07/10/14 12:40, whisky-dave wrote:

So you have inert gas in your home just waiting to be used.


Nope, but I could procure it during the day and be home in 90 minutes.

Most people could.


Most people that think of killing themselves do it on the spot and use whatever is to hand they don;t normally go out and purchase items. These people aren't normally in their 'right mind' at the time.

Possibly....

guns illegal in the UK, so it's pills or join the armed forces to 'fight' in another country would be my suggestion.

Death by combatant?

Most people that think of killing themselves do it on the spot and
use whatever is to hand they don;t normally go out and purchase
items. These people aren't normally in their 'right mind' at the
time.



Those who hang themselves need to plan ahead, as do those who do it via
their car exhaust. Jumps may be more spur of the moment, but I think
there's evidence that even they are well planned.

On 07/10/14 12:54, Tim Watts wrote:
On 07/10/14 12:40, whisky-dave wrote:

So you have inert gas in your home just waiting to be used.


Nope, but I could procure it during the day and be home in 90 minutes.

Most people could.


Most people that think of killing themselves do it on the spot and use
whatever is to hand they don;t normally go out and purchase items.
These people aren't normally in their 'right mind' at the time.

Possibly....

guns illegal in the UK, so it's pills or join the armed forces to
'fight' in another country would be my suggestion.

Death by combatant?

Or you could be rude online about a sleb and find yourself hanged.


http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-L...alone-by-death

--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. €“ Erwin Knoll

In article ,
Rod Speed wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote
Rod Speed wrote

I don't know why there are executions.

It's a very effective way of ensuring
that they don't murder anyone else.

Assuming they were correctly convicted in the first place.

Doesn’t assume anything, the executed
individual wont be able to murder anyone.

Very true. So to prevent murder simply execute the entire population.
Simples.

--
*Husbands should come with instructions

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
stuart noble wrote:
Those who hang themselves need to plan ahead, as do those who do it via
their car exhaust.

Quite difficult to do these days as there is virtually no CO from a car
exhaust, so you don't get poisoned. You'd have to find some way of
replacing all the air in the car with the CO2 from the exhaust - not so
easy.

--
*I never drink water because of the disgusting things that fish do in it..

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tuesday, 7 October 2014 13:02:03 UTC+1, stuart noble wrote:
Most people that think of killing themselves do it on the spot and

use whatever is to hand they don;t normally go out and purchase
items. These people aren't normally in their 'right mind' at the
time.



Those who hang themselves need to plan ahead,

and why few suicides use hanging if something else is availible.
Poeple in prison cells attempt this I know a prison warder who has to remove their belts. and anyhting else that can be used in a suicide attempt.



as do those who do it via
their car exhaust.

if they have a car in a convienent place.

Jumps may be more spur of the moment, but I think
there's evidence that even they are well planned.


You can't easily stop things that are well planned the thing about pills is that your parents, siblings, friends, anyone can buy asprin type drugs and store them and if you happen to feel like topping yuorself in the home the bathroom cabinet isn't far, and is usualy stocked.

http://frater.com/suicidelist.html

pills are the most comonly attempted way because they don;t think of such things as being painful.

On Tuesday, 7 October 2014 13:17:50 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,

Rod Speed wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote

Rod Speed wrote



I don't know why there are executions.



It's a very effective way of ensuring

that they don't murder anyone else.



Assuming they were correctly convicted in the first place.



Doesn't assume anything, the executed

individual wont be able to murder anyone.



Very true. So to prevent murder simply execute the entire population.
Simples.

another way is making any killing of another person legal, murder would then cease to be a problem.

On 07/10/2014 13:21, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
stuart noble wrote:
Those who hang themselves need to plan ahead, as do those who do it via
their car exhaust.

Quite difficult to do these days as there is virtually no CO from a car
exhaust, so you don't get poisoned. You'd have to find some way of
replacing all the air in the car with the CO2 from the exhaust - not so
easy.


Yes I had forgotten that

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
Dave Plowman (News) wrote
Rod Speed wrote

I don't know why there are executions.

It's a very effective way of ensuring
that they don't murder anyone else.

Assuming they were correctly convicted in the first place.

Doesn’t assume anything, the executed
individual wont be able to murder anyone.



You seem to be missing the word else at the end of your sentence.

--
Adam

On 07/10/2014 13:48, whisky-dave wrote:
and why few suicides use hanging if something else is availible.
Poeple in prison cells attempt this I know a prison warder who has to remove their belts. and anyhting else that can be used in a suicide attempt.

The top pathologist in a hospital I knew well hanged himself in a
basement toilet. Struck me that he was in a position with both
understanding and access to the means for many alternatives, yet that is
what he chose.

--
Rod

In message ,
writes
On Monday, October 6, 2014 2:34:36 PM UTC+1, Tim Watts wrote:
On 06/10/14 14:03, whisky-dave wrote:

No it's due to suicides as it's a common way top attempt it pill overdose










http://freakonomics.com/2011/05/17/w...ls-in-england/

Which is odd as it must the worst method possible.
It either doesn't work or it takes so long to work that the victim
changes their mind by which time their liver is so buggered that death
is merely a matter of time - a horrible nasty painful time.
If I wanted to top myself, I'd use any inert gas except for CO2. One of
which is very readily available on the high street.

We could have a diy death how-to thread. How cheerful.


NT
I think others have already beaten us to it.
--
bert

In message ,
writes
On Monday, October 6, 2014 2:34:36 PM UTC+1, Tim Watts wrote:
If I wanted to top myself, I'd use any inert gas except for CO2. One of
which is very readily available on the high street.

CO is fairly readily available if you know where to look.

Owain

Used to be car exhaust pipes before cats.
--
bert

polygonum wrote
whisky-dave wrote

and why few suicides use hanging if something else is availible.
Poeple in prison cells attempt this I know a prison warder who has to
remove their belts. and anyhting else that can be used in a suicide
attempt.

The top pathologist in a hospital I knew well hanged himself in a basement
toilet. Struck me that he was in a position with both understanding and
access to the means for many alternatives, yet that is what he chose.

Maybe because it was less likely that he would get
caught and stopped before he could kill himself.

Certainly what is used to kill animals that have passed
their useby date is very effective and reliable, but not
that easy to use on yourself reliably.

Even just using some inert gas isnt that easy to
use as a bit of rope in a hospital environment
with a minimal risk of getting stopped.

Presumably he didn’t want to do it at home
because of who would find the corpse there.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...

In article ,
Rod Speed wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote
Rod Speed wrote

I don't know why there are executions.

It's a very effective way of ensuring
that they don't murder anyone else.

Assuming they were correctly convicted in the first place.

Doesnt assume anything, the executed
individual wont be able to murder anyone.

Very true. So to prevent murder simply execute the entire population.
Simples.

Do you pose like a meerkat when typing that? Just wondering.

"ARW" wrote in message
...
"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
Dave Plowman (News) wrote
Rod Speed wrote

I don't know why there are executions.

It's a very effective way of ensuring
that they don't murder anyone else.

Assuming they were correctly convicted in the first place.

Doesn’t assume anything, the executed
individual wont be able to murder anyone.



You seem to be missing the word else at the end of your sentence.

Then your seems machinery needs seeing to.

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, 7 October 2014 13:02:03 UTC+1, stuart noble wrote:
Most people that think of killing themselves do it on the spot and

use whatever is to hand they don;t normally go out and purchase
items. These people aren't normally in their 'right mind' at the
time.



Those who hang themselves need to plan ahead,

and why few suicides use hanging if something else is availible.


Poeple in prison cells attempt this I know a prison warder who has to remove
their belts. and anyhting else that can be used in a suicide attempt.

One of the reasons cells (both prison and police cells) are marked down in
safety scores is due to the number of ligature points. It's common practice
to remove items from people in police custody that could be used for self
harm or used for hanging (belts, spectacles, shoes etc). The same cannot be
said for people in prisons unless they are on suicide watch.

Specialist firms are used to identify ligature points in the cells and if
the occupant of the cell is called Harold Shipman then these danger points
are highlighted with a red marker pen just before lights out.


--
Adam

whisky-dave wrote
Tim Watts wrote
whisky-dave wrote

No it's due to suicides as it's a common way top attempt it pill
overdose

http://freakonomics.com/2011/05/17/w...ls-in-england/

Which is odd as it must the worst method possible.

Yep, that's the problem the people that think like this aren't thinking
straight.

Plenty of them are, most obviously with euthanasia.

It either doesn't work or it takes so long to work that the victim
changes their mind by which time their liver is so buggered that
death is merely a matter of time - a horrible nasty painful time.

Yep, it's the simplest drug to take and the one most likely to be
in the home in quantity. That's why they stopped selling large
containers of 200 because people brought them to save money.
Those considering suicide because they weanted to die or for
attention just headed for the nearest bottle of pills.

Doesn't explain why Britain is one of the few places
that bans those quantitys for normal retail sales.

It isnt even one of the few places
that bans those and guns as well.

If I wanted to top myself, I'd use any inert gas except for CO2.

So you have inert gas in your home just waiting to be used.

Its easy enough to get some if you want to do that.

Most people that think of killing themselves do it on the spot and use
whatever is to hand they don;t normally go out and purchase items.

You don't know that.

These people aren't normally in their 'right mind' at the time.

Sure, those spontaneous ones, but there are plenty
of others that are, most obviously with euthanasia.

One of which is very readily available on the high street.

So were asprins in large quantities and the majority of attempted
suicides.

http://www.suicidemethods.net/suicide-methods/

guns illegal in the UK, so it's pills or join the armed forces to 'fight'
in another country would be my suggestion.

Much more effective to get some helium
that's used for party balloons and use that.

The other obvious approach is nembutal,
trivially available in the third world over
the counter in places like Mexico.

Another obvious approach is a heroin overdose,
but that's more risky because you can't be sure
it's the usual strength and so you can't be sure you
will kill yourself with say 10 times the normal dose.

whisky-dave wrote
stuart noble wrote

Most people that think of killing themselves do it on the spot and
use whatever is to hand they don;t normally go out and purchase
items. These people aren't normally in their 'right mind' at the time.

Those who hang themselves need to plan ahead,

and why few suicides use hanging if something else is availible.

In fact the majority are that way.
http://lostallhope.com/suicide-stati...ethods-suicide

Poeple in prison cells attempt this I know a prison warder who has to
remove
their belts. and anyhting else that can be used in a suicide attempt.

as do those who do it via their car exhaust.

if they have a car in a convienent place.

And have a very old car.

Jumps may be more spur of the moment, but I think
there's evidence that even they are well planned.

You can't easily stop things that are well planned the
thing about pills is that your parents, siblings, friends,
anyone can buy asprin type drugs and store them and
if you happen to feel like topping yuorself in the home
the bathroom cabinet isn't far, and is usualy stocked.

http://frater.com/suicidelist.html

pills are the most comonly attempted way

No they arent.
http://lostallhope.com/suicide-stati...ethods-suicide

because they don;t think of such things as being painful.

On Tuesday, 7 October 2014 23:36:36 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
whisky-dave wrote

Tim Watts wrote

whisky-dave wrote

No it's due to suicides as it's a common way top attempt it pill

overdose

http://freakonomics.com/2011/05/17/w...ls-in-england/



Which is odd as it must the worst method possible.

Yep, that's the problem the people that think like this aren't thinking
straight.



Plenty of them are, most obviously with euthanasia.

But it's extremly difficult to kill yourself with standard dose asprin you'd need to take 50+.


It either doesn't work or it takes so long to work that the victim
changes their mind by which time their liver is so buggered that
death is merely a matter of time - a horrible nasty painful time.



Yep, it's the simplest drug to take and the one most likely to be
in the home in quantity. That's why they stopped selling large
containers of 200 because people brought them to save money.
Those considering suicide because they weanted to die or for
attention just headed for the nearest bottle of pills.



Doesn't explain why Britain is one of the few places
that bans those quantitys for normal retail sales.

It does when it's a nanny state and the FACT that those people that do attempt to kill themselves by that method fail but end up with some such disability as liver failer and need treatment.

Then there's still the 'accidental' overdose or the help me overdoes, I had a flatmate (before she lived with me) who took about 15 paracetomols to kill herself because she was despressed. She failed. If it were a 100 or 200 jar she might have done her self some serioius harm but not death.



http://freakonomics.com/2011/05/17/w...ls-in-england/

"LESTER: They started doing that about five years ago, and they restrict the numbers, and they put them in plastic blisters so you have to tear them out. And again, you'd think all I have to do is go to six drugstores, you know, buy packets in each of them, all I have to do is just tear them out. But it has cut down the number of overdoses. It's also cut down the number of serious overdoses that have led to kidney damage. Now, very few people died of an acetaminophen overdose. So it's been hard to document that it cut the number of deaths, but certainly the number of attempts. The overdoses with it have been cut dramatically. And they did think about other things. You know, they did think about putting bitter tasting substances in it, or a substance that would make you vomit if you took too many. But they decided that was perhaps...That would interfere with the appropriate use of an analgesic such as Tylenol or aspirin. You know, the people who really needed them for headache would find it unpleasant to take them. ... It's been remarkable, a success, that."

It isnt even one of the few places
that bans those and guns as well.

If I wanted to top myself, I'd use any inert gas except for CO2.



So you have inert gas in your home just waiting to be used.



Its easy enough to get some if you want to do that.

Which is easier going to the cabinet in my kitchen or for you to go and find your inert gas, and now think about the averaae person in the UK.
I bet half wouldn't know what an inert gas was let alone find it.

and then there's cost.




Most people that think of killing themselves do it on the spot and use
whatever is to hand they don;t normally go out and purchase items.



You don't know that.

I do, it's not the first time I've discussed this. I've known 3 people who have attempted to kill themselves. One ened up in goodmayes psychiatric hospital.

These people aren't normally in their 'right mind' at the time.



Sure, those spontaneous ones, but there are plenty
of others that are, most obviously with euthanasia.

Which is also illegal in the UK.


One of which is very readily available on the high street.



So were asprins in large quantities and the majority of attempted
suicides.



http://www.suicidemethods.net/suicide-methods/

guns illegal in the UK, so it's pills or join the armed forces to 'fight'
in another country would be my suggestion.



Much more effective to get some helium
that's used for party balloons and use that.

It's not that effective and unlikely to kill you.



The other obvious approach is nembutal,
trivially available in the third world over
the counter in places like Mexico.

A doubt many thinking of suicide wowuld think of buying a ticket to mexico.
Just jump in front of a train on the way to heathrow .....

There's even been a far better suggestion in this NG, but make sure you have the £20 on you before you do it.

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BjIKPAmCcAA31T3.jpg


Another obvious approach is a heroin overdose,

heroin is illegal which could be a problem.


but that's more risky because you can't be sure
it's the usual strength and so you can't be sure you
will kill yourself with say 10 times the normal dose.

Yep you could be solo asprin.

On Tuesday, 7 October 2014 23:48:07 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
whisky-dave wrote



and why few suicides use hanging if something else is availible.



In fact the majority are that way.
http://lostallhope.com/suicide-stati...ethods-suicide


But therre's no way of stoping people hanging themselves is there.
You can;t make ropes over a foot in lengh illegal can you.
So you try to find other methods.



as do those who do it via their car exhaust.

if they have a car in a convienent place.


And have a very old car.

so that could explian the 2% for all gases.
10X that many choose drugs


Jumps may be more spur of the moment, but I think
there's evidence that even they are well planned.



You can't easily stop things that are well planned the
thing about pills is that your parents, siblings, friends,
anyone can buy asprin type drugs and store them and
if you happen to feel like topping yuorself in the home
the bathroom cabinet isn't far, and is usualy stocked.

http://frater.com/suicidelist.html

pills are the most comonly attempted way


No they arent.

They are first when it comes to thinhgs you can avoid, it's just that they arent recorded unless they are serious and get reproted to the police.


http://lostallhope.com/suicide-stati...ethods-suicide


I still DO NOT believe the above site.
How dom you suffocate yourself to death ?

The FACT is that the reason you can't buy jars of 100 asprin is because of suicides and accidental overdoses.

There's no ban on me buying too much rope or a ban on buying too many pillows in argos in case I try to suffocate myslef.
There's no ban on knif buying( other than age restrictions)


because they don;t think of such things as being painful.

whisky-dave wrote
Rod Speed wrote
whisky-dave wrote

and why few suicides use hanging if something else is availible.

In fact the majority are that way.
http://lostallhope.com/suicide-stati...ethods-suicide

But therre's no way of stoping people hanging themselves is there.
You can;t make ropes over a foot in lengh illegal can you.
So you try to find other methods.

All irrelevant to what is the most common way to suicide.

as do those who do it via their car exhaust.

if they have a car in a convienent place.

And have a very old car.

so that could explian the 2% for all gases.

And the change made to the gas supplied to houses.

10X that many choose drugs

Interesting that I couldn't find much in the day
of the detail on exactly what drugs they did use.

Jumps may be more spur of the moment, but I think
there's evidence that even they are well planned.

You can't easily stop things that are well planned the
thing about pills is that your parents, siblings, friends,
anyone can buy asprin type drugs and store them and
if you happen to feel like topping yuorself in the home
the bathroom cabinet isn't far, and is usualy stocked.

http://frater.com/suicidelist.html

pills are the most comonly attempted way

No they arent.

They are first when it comes to thinhgs you can avoid,

That wasn't what you said originally.

it's just that they arent recorded unless they
are serious and get reproted to the police.

http://lostallhope.com/suicide-stati...ethods-suicide

I still DO NOT believe the above site.
How dom you suffocate yourself to death ?

Those bags those into euthanasia have been into for a long
time now. You put it over your head and its got a thing that
goes around your neck to get a decent seal there.

The FACT is that the reason you can't buy jars of 100
asprin is because of suicides and accidental overdoses.

Even that is a very dubious proposition given that there are very
few countrys that ban the sale of that many aspirins at one time.

There's no ban on me buying too much rope or a ban on buying
too many pillows in argos in case I try to suffocate myslef.
There's no ban on knif buying( other than age restrictions)

Because those bans just arent practical.

There is a ban on what used to be used to kill yourself with drugs wise.

There is also a ban on poisons like cyanide that used
to be used for suicide most obviously by the nazis too.

Essentially because there is no real downside to those bans.

The ban on aspirins is completely silly, you cant kill yourself
with too many aspirins and its completely trivial to buy them
from say 5 shops if you are stupid enough to try that anyway.

because they don;t think of such things as being painful.

whisky-dave wrote
Rod Speed wrote
whisky-dave wrote
Tim Watts wrote
whisky-dave wrote

No it's due to suicides as it's a common way top attempt it pill
overdose

http://freakonomics.com/2011/05/17/w...ls-in-england/

Which is odd as it must the worst method possible.

Yep, that's the problem the people that think like this aren't thinking
straight.

Plenty of them are, most obviously with euthanasia.

But it's extremly difficult to kill yourself with
standard dose asprin you'd need to take 50+.

I'm not convinced that that would kill you and that is
a completely separate matter to you claim I commented
on, whether most who suicide aren't thinking straight.

Many of them are, most obviously with euthanasia.

It either doesn't work or it takes so long to work that the victim
changes their mind by which time their liver is so buggered that
death is merely a matter of time - a horrible nasty painful time.

Yep, it's the simplest drug to take and the one most likely to be
in the home in quantity. That's why they stopped selling large
containers of 200 because people brought them to save money.
Those considering suicide because they weanted to die or for
attention just headed for the nearest bottle of pills.

Doesn't explain why Britain is one of the few places
that bans those quantitys for normal retail sales.

It does when it's a nanny state

Its no more a nanny state than plenty of others.

and the FACT that those people that do attempt to
kill themselves by that method fail but end up with
some such disability as liver failer and need treatment.

I just don't believe that many actually attempt
to kill themselves using lots of aspirins.

Then there's still the 'accidental' overdose

I don't believe that happens much with aspirin
in the sort of quantity that produces liver failure.

or the help me overdoes,

Not clear what you mean there.


I had a flatmate (before she lived with me) who took about
15 paracetomols to kill herself because she was despressed.
She failed.

Sure, paracetamol can certainly kill you.

If it were a 100 or 200 jar she might have done
her self some serioius harm but not death.

I just don't believe that many would buy 100 or 200 jars of paracetamol.

http://freakonomics.com/2011/05/17/w...ls-in-england/

"LESTER: They started doing that about five years ago, and they restrict
the
numbers, and they put them in plastic blisters so you have to tear them
out.

That last was done for other reasons, to make it harder for kids to take
them accidentally.

And again, you'd think all I have to do is go to six drugstores, you know,
buy packets in each of them, all I have to do is just tear them out. But
it
has cut down the number of overdoses. It's also cut down the number
of serious overdoses that have led to kidney damage. Now, very few
people died of an acetaminophen overdose. So it's been hard to
document that it cut the number of deaths, but certainly the number
of attempts. The overdoses with it have been cut dramatically. And
they did think about other things. You know, they did think about
putting bitter tasting substances in it, or a substance that would
make you vomit if you took too many. But they decided that was
perhaps...That would interfere with the appropriate use of an
analgesic such as Tylenol or aspirin. You know, the people who
really needed them for headache would find it unpleasant to
take them. ... It's been remarkable, a success, that."

That is mostly just waffle.

It isnt even one of the few places
that bans those and guns as well.

If I wanted to top myself, I'd use any inert gas except for CO2.

So you have inert gas in your home just waiting to be used.

Its easy enough to get some if you want to do that.

Which is easier going to the cabinet in my kitchen

You wont be able to find much that can kill you reliably there.

or for you to go and find your inert gas,

Its completely trivial to do that, any place flogging party balloons.

and now think about the averaae person in the UK. I bet
half wouldn't know what an inert gas was let alone find it.

Sure, but that's just as true of what will kill
you reliably in the medicine cabinet too or
even the cupboard under the sink or the shed.

The main exception is rope.

and then there's cost.

It doesn't cost enough to matter.

Most people that think of killing themselves do it on the spot and use
whatever is to hand they don;t normally go out and purchase items.

You don't know that.

I do, it's not the first time I've discussed this. I've known
3 people who have attempted to kill themselves. One
ended up in goodmayes psychiatric hospital.

The technical term for that is 'pathetically inadequate sample'

I actually know more than that who have chosen to
get what they need to kill themselves reliably if they
ever decide that they want to do that and all of those
have done that by going out and purchasing items.

The one that has killed himself successfully used a rope.

These people aren't normally in their 'right mind' at the time.

Sure, those spontaneous ones, but there are plenty
of others that are, most obviously with euthanasia.

Which is also illegal in the UK.

Not if you do it to yourself.

One of which is very readily available on the high street.

So were asprins in large quantities and
the majority of attempted suicides.

http://www.suicidemethods.net/suicide-methods/

guns illegal in the UK, so it's pills or join the armed forces
to 'fight' in another country would be my suggestion.

Much more effective to get some helium
that's used for party balloons and use that.

It's not that effective and unlikely to kill you.

Its completely effective and always kills you
when you ensure that that is all you breath.

The other obvious approach is nembutal,
trivially available in the third world over
the counter in places like Mexico.

A doubt many thinking of suicide wowuld
think of buying a ticket to mexico.

Plenty have done that.

Just jump in front of a train on the way to heathrow .....

Most prefer the nembutal. You can buy in on the net too.

There's even been a far better suggestion in this NG, but
make sure you have the £20 on you before you do it.

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BjIKPAmCcAA31T3.jpg

That approach is very unreliable.

Another obvious approach is a heroin overdose,

heroin is illegal which could be a problem.

Nope, vast numbers use it every day.

but that's more risky because you can't be sure
it's the usual strength and so you can't be sure you
will kill yourself with say 10 times the normal dose.

Yep you could be solo asprin.

Try that again in english.

On Thursday, 9 October 2014 01:29:44 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
whisky-dave wrote

Rod Speed wrote

whisky-dave wrote

and why few suicides use hanging if something else is availible
In fact the majority are that way.

http://lostallhope.com/suicide-stati...ethods-suicide

But therre's no way of stoping people hanging themselves is there.
You can;t make ropes over a foot in lengh illegal can you.
So you try to find other methods.



All irrelevant to what is the most common way to suicide.

which is irrelivent to why they decided to stop selling asprin and the like in large quantities to joe public ask you GP or chemist they know.



as do those who do it via their car exhaust.

if they have a car in a convienent place.


And have a very old car.

so that could explian the 2% for all gases.


And the change made to the gas supplied to houses.

Not sure that's true, they did not change the gas suply to all house in order to reduce suicides, they added something to make the gas smell making leaks easier to detect.




10X that many choose drugs



Interesting that I couldn't find much in the day
of the detail on exactly what drugs they did use.

That;s true although most don;t chose herion to comite suicide by, but that may well end up killing them. I DO NOT believe peaches geldof attempted suicide.




They are first when it comes to thinhgs you can avoid,



That wasn't what you said originally.

What I said was they won;lt allow you to buy large quanaties of asprin
and this was because of suicides.


it's just that they arent recorded unless they
are serious and get reproted to the police.



http://lostallhope.com/suicide-stati...ethods-suicide



I still DO NOT believe the above site.
How do you suffocate yourself to death ?



Those bags those into euthanasia have been into for a long
time now. You put it over your head and its got a thing that
goes around your neck to get a decent seal there.

can you show a link to an incident where this actually happene din the UK and where yuo can buy such things. I'd like a pack of 10 ;-)





The FACT is that the reason you can't buy jars of 100
asprin is because of suicides and accidental overdoses.



Even that is a very dubious proposition given that there are very
few countrys that ban the sale of that many aspirins at one time.

Ask the medical profession in the UK about sales in the UK.


There's no ban on me buying too much rope or a ban on buying
too many pillows in argos in case I try to suffocate myslef.
There's no ban on knif buying( other than age restrictions)

Because those bans just arent practical.


Exactly it's pretty easy to tell companies that they can;t sell bottles of 100 asprin/paracetomol.


There is a ban on what used to be used to kill yourself with drugs wise.

Laudanum ?


There is also a ban on poisons like cyanide that used
to be used for suicide most obviously by the nazis too.

It's because it's leathal and has little use that for the general public.



Essentially because there is no real downside to those bans.
There's little downside to not being able to buy 100 paracetomol , but I was stoped from buying 3 packets of headache pills in the supermarket.


The ban on aspirins is completely silly,

It's NOT a ban on Asprins any more than a 70MPH speed limit is a ban on driving.

you cant kill yourself
with too many aspirins

you can.
DO yy know about teh LD50 where 50% of teh population will die from taking more than 1mg of pacetomol per 1Kg of body wieght.
The average pill is about 300mg well my ones are. a pack of 10 is = 3grams.


and its completely trivial to buy them
from say 5 shops if you are stupid enough to try that anyway.

Yes it is, but by that tome most have 'calmed' down or changed their mind in that time, thats the whole point. Aquiring asuffecient quantity and having to talk to people has the effect of calming or re-analising the situation..

They've even painted yellow lines on teh underground station platforms, this is because peole are stupid and they NEED to go given limits, but those lines don;t stop anyone from commiting suicide there aim is to educate the stupid and make them THINK, also make them THINK accident can happen and if you're balancing on the edge of a cliff or station you can fall or be pushed.



because they don;t think of such things as being painful.

On Thursday, 9 October 2014 01:49:17 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
whisky-dave wrote

Rod Speed wrote

whisky-dave wrote

Tim Watts wrote

whisky-dave wrote

No it's due to suicides as it's a common way top attempt it pill
overdose


http://freakonomics.com/2011/05/17/w...ls-in-england/



Which is odd as it must the worst method possible.

Yep, that's the problem the people that think like this aren't thinking
straight.

Plenty of them are, most obviously with euthanasia.

But it's extremly difficult to kill yourself with

standard dose asprin you'd need to take 50+.



I'm not convinced that that would kill you

50 wouldn;t there is a formulae 1.7g per 1KG body wieght 50% of peole would be killed is the estimate.

and that is
a completely separate matter to you claim I commented
on, whether most who suicide aren't thinking straight.

Those that attempt it with asprin/paracetomol aren't in their right mind.
Or do you think that those that go to switzerland for euthanasia are stupid because they could just go to a supermarket and buy a couple of 100 pills for a fraction of the air fare ? Because that IS a fact.
about 35p for 16 pills of 300mg.



Many of them are, most obviously with euthanasia.

I believe those ARE thinking straight. Try listening to them.
The doctors certainly think they know what they want.



It either doesn't work or it takes so long to work that the victim
changes their mind by which time their liver is so buggered that
death is merely a matter of time - a horrible nasty painful time.

Yep, it's the simplest drug to take and the one most likely to be
in the home in quantity. That's why they stopped selling large
containers of 200 because people brought them to save money.
Those considering suicide because they weanted to die or for
attention just headed for the nearest bottle of pills.



Doesn't explain why Britain is one of the few places
that bans those quantitys for normal retail sales.

It does when it's a nanny state



Its no more a nanny state than plenty of others.

Yes it is. We aren't allowed like the USA, we have speed restrictions on roads, unlike teh autobahn. Not allowed to smoke at work or at play in pubs/clubs, resturants.


and the FACT that those people that do attempt to
kill themselves by that method fail but end up with
some such disability as liver failer and need treatment.



I just don't believe that many actually attempt
to kill themselves using lots of aspirins.

Well you're wrong ask the medical profession. For most it's a cry for help it was with my flatmat which is why she phoned her friend after taking the pills saying where she was but don;t come to help her as she'd taken a bottle of pills to kill herself. You just don;t phone a friend with a car that lives 10mins away and tell them where you are if you truely want to kill yourself.


Then there's still the 'accidental' overdose



I don't believe that happens much with aspirin
in the sort of quantity that produces liver failure.

Actually I think it's kidney failure, but they do want people that taking just one a day can cause stomuch ulcers, so not sure what effect taking a 100 in a few minutes might do.


or the help me overdoes,

If you're taking other medicines and asprin you might exceed a safe limit which is about 4g per day.

You do realise that you can even be killed by drinking too much water.


Not clear what you mean there.



I had a flatmate (before she lived with me) who took about
15 paracetomols to kill herself because she was despressed.
She failed.



Sure, paracetamol can certainly kill you.

People think all headache pills can kill and they can, depending on quantity.



If it were a 100 or 200 jar she might have done
her self some serioius harm but not death.



I just don't believe that many would buy 100 or 200 jars of paracetamol.

You don't need to buy them they just need to be at hand at the 'right time'..


http://freakonomics.com/2011/05/17/w...ls-in-england/


"LESTER: They started doing that about five years ago, and they restrict

the

numbers, and they put them in plastic blisters so you have to tear them

out.



That last was done for other reasons, to make it harder for kids to take
them accidentally.

So was putting child proof caps on bottles, that didn;t stop people commiting suicide either, but the aim of that was to stop accidents.


And again, you'd think all I have to do is go to six drugstores, you know,
buy packets in each of them, all I have to do is just tear them out. But
it
has cut down the number of overdoses. It's also cut down the number
of serious overdoses that have led to kidney damage. Now, very few
people died of an acetaminophen overdose. So it's been hard to
document that it cut the number of deaths, but certainly the number
of attempts. The overdoses with it have been cut dramatically. And
they did think about other things. You know, they did think about
putting bitter tasting substances in it, or a substance that would
make you vomit if you took too many. But they decided that was
perhaps...That would interfere with the appropriate use of an
analgesic such as Tylenol or aspirin. You know, the people who
really needed them for headache would find it unpleasant to
take them. ... It's been remarkable, a success, that."



That is mostly just waffle.

yes but valid waffle.

They dont; make these pills is straberry flavour either.
It's not to stop or redcue suicides, it so that if a child does happen to take one thatey don;t find it exactly pleasant, and they don;t make them muilticouloured either for the same reason.


It isnt even one of the few places
that bans those and guns as well.

If I wanted to top myself, I'd use any inert gas except for CO2.
So you have inert gas in your home just waiting to be used.

Its easy enough to get some if you want to do that.

Which is easier going to the cabinet in my kitchen

You wont be able to find much that can kill you reliably there.

it doesn't have to be a relible method any more than those that slash their wrists.


or for you to go and find your inert gas,

Its completely trivial to do that, any place flogging party balloons.

Just the sort of place you'll go to when suffering depretion a 'party'
and anyway there's moves to stop those helium ballon sellers, why do you think that is, because NASA was affraid of teh competition ?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-11810372

He did not try to commit suicide, he was killed in an accident,
you can stop such accidents by baning these ballons or requiring a license to sell them with helium. Which is what they plan to do.


and now think about the averaae person in the UK. I bet
half wouldn't know what an inert gas was let alone find it.



Sure, but that's just as true of what will kill
you reliably in the medicine cabinet too or
even the cupboard under the sink or the shed.

Yes which is why they choose such things rather than helium, far esieir to aquire.


The main exception is rope.

the expression give someone enough rope and they'll hang themselves comes to mind.


and then there's cost.

It doesn't cost enough to matter.

What doesn;t cost enough ?


Most people that think of killing themselves do it on the spot and use
whatever is to hand they don;t normally go out and purchase items.



You don't know that.



I do, it's not the first time I've discussed this. I've known

3 people who have attempted to kill themselves. One

ended up in goodmayes psychiatric hospital.



The technical term for that is 'pathetically inadequate sample'

Then read the websites about it.
Your example of NO-ONE is less than a 'pathetically inadequate sample'

I actually know more than that who have chosen to
get what they need to kill themselves reliably if they
ever decide that they want to do that and all of those
have done that by going out and purchasing items.

So what did they buy.

The one that has killed himself successfully used a rope.

How much rope ?, would he have used rope if it were only sold in 1 inch lenghts ?


These people aren't normally in their 'right mind' at the time.

Sure, those spontaneous ones, but there are plenty
of others that are, most obviously with euthanasia.



Which is also illegal in the UK.



Not if you do it to yourself.

Then it's not euthanasia is it.
euthanasia and sucide ARE differnt even if teh end result is the same.
i.e a corpse.




Much more effective to get some helium
that's used for party balloons and use that.



It's not that effective and unlikely to kill you.

Its completely effective and always kills you
when you ensure that that is all you breath.

Which isn't that easy to do, which is one you can count on one hand the number of peole that have died in such a way.
Unless you can site a number of examples i.e greater than one.

if it realyl is that easy surly it'd be more popular and far cheaper than traveling to switzerland.


The other obvious approach is nembutal,
trivially available in the third world over
the counter in places like Mexico.



A doubt many thinking of suicide wowuld
think of buying a ticket to mexico.



Plenty have done that.

yeah sure, it's quite comoon for people going to mexico to buy paracetomol.
I must do it next time I need a packet.


Just jump in front of a train on the way to heathrow .....



Most prefer the nembutal.

Most don;t.

You can buy in on the net too.

Two years ago you could by dehydrated water on the net.


There's even been a far better suggestion in this NG, but
make sure you have the £20 on you before you do it.



http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BjIKPAmCcAA31T3.jpg


That approach is very unreliable.

Not as unrelible as other methods, plenty of people die from electricution.



Another obvious approach is a heroin overdose,

heroin is illegal which could be a problem.

Nope, vast numbers use it every day.

But not to commide suicide, that is NOT how peaches geldof died.



but that's more risky because you can't be sure
it's the usual strength and so you can't be sure you
will kill yourself with say 10 times the normal dose.



Yep you could be solo asprin.



Try that again in english.

you can be sold anyhting and if it is wrong it can kill you.

A friend of mine changed his speed dealer, he injected it, but didn;t know the new dealwer cut it with clucose rather than anadin and he was rushed to hospital as his arm swelled up. He was no taking speed to kill himself.

On 09/10/2014 12:20, whisky-dave wrote:
The average pill is about 300mg well my ones are. a pack of 10 is = 3grams.

Most aspirin in the UK is in 300mg doses. Much (I think most) in the USA
is in 325mg doses. Seems both are metricated versions of five grains -
but some countries/companies went for 60mg per grain; others went for
65mg per grain. Even now there are some medicines (at least in the USA)
where both "equivalences" are used depending on company.

(An accurate conversion is a tiniest bit under 65mg.)

--
Rod

whisky-dave wrote
Rod Speed wrote
whisky-dave wrote
Rod Speed wrote
whisky-dave wrote

and why few suicides use hanging if something else is availible

In fact the majority are that way.

http://lostallhope.com/suicide-stati...ethods-suicide

But therre's no way of stoping people hanging themselves is there.
You can;t make ropes over a foot in lengh illegal can you.
So you try to find other methods.

All irrelevant to what is the most common way to suicide.

which is irrelivent to why they decided to stop selling asprin and the
like in large quantities to joe public ask you GP or chemist they know.

I didn't dispute that, I JUST commented on that claim of yours now at the
top.

as do those who do it via their car exhaust.

if they have a car in a convienent place.

And have a very old car.

so that could explian the 2% for all gases.

And the change made to the gas supplied to houses.

Not sure that's true,

Corse it is. The change from town gas to natural gas
meant that you couldn't suicide that way anymore.

they did not change the gas suply to
all house in order to reduce suicides,

No one said they did.

they added something to make the gas
smell making leaks easier to detect.

Which is irrelevant if you choose to kill yourself that way.

10X that many choose drugs

Interesting that I couldn't find much in the way
of the detail on exactly what drugs they did use.

That;s true although most don;t chose herion to comite
suicide by, but that may well end up killing them.
I DO NOT believe peaches geldof attempted suicide.

They are first when it comes to thinhgs you can avoid,

That wasn't what you said originally.

What I said was they won;lt allow you to buy large
quanaties of asprin and this was because of suicides.

That isnt what is still at the top of the quoting.

it's just that they arent recorded unless they
are serious and get reproted to the police.

http://lostallhope.com/suicide-stati...ethods-suicide

I still DO NOT believe the above site.
How do you suffocate yourself to death ?

Those bags those into euthanasia have been into for a long
time now. You put it over your head and its got a thing that
goes around your neck to get a decent seal there.

can you show a link to an incident where this actually happene din
the UK and where yuo can buy such things. I'd like a pack of 10 ;-)

There is nothing special about them, just a bag large enough
and something to wrap around the neck, a strip of cloth is fine
and so is packing tape or a large zip tie or some string.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_bag

The FACT is that the reason you can't buy jars of 100
asprin is because of suicides and accidental overdoses.

Even that is a very dubious proposition given that there are very
few countrys that ban the sale of that many aspirins at one time.

Ask the medical profession in the UK about sales in the UK.

No point, no one disputed that they are banned there.

What is being discussed is whether it makes any sense to ban them.

No other country is that stupid.

There's no ban on me buying too much rope or a ban on buying
too many pillows in argos in case I try to suffocate myslef.
There's no ban on knif buying( other than age restrictions)

Because those bans just arent practical.

Exactly it's pretty easy to tell companies that they
can;t sell bottles of 100 asprin/paracetomol.

And that is pointless because its trivial to buy 5 packs of 20 instead.

There is a ban on what used to be used to kill yourself with drugs wise.

Laudanum ?

Nope, barbiturates etc.

There is also a ban on poisons like cyanide that used
to be used for suicide most obviously by the nazis too.

It's because it's leathal and has little use that for the general public.

Duh.

Essentially because there is no real downside to those bans.

There's little downside to not being able to buy 100 paracetomol , but
I was stoped from buying 3 packets of headache pills in the supermarket.

I wasn't.

The ban on aspirins is completely silly,

It's NOT a ban on Asprins any more than a 70MPH speed limit is a ban on
driving.

you cant kill yourself with too many aspirins

you can.
DO yy know about teh LD50 where 50% of teh population will die
from taking more than 1mg of pacetomol per 1Kg of body wieght.

Paracetamol is not aspirin.

The average pill is about 300mg well my ones are. a pack of 10 is =
3grams.

and its completely trivial to buy them from say 5
shops if you are stupid enough to try that anyway.

Yes it is, but by that tome most have 'calmed'
down or changed their mind in that time,

You don't know that.

thats the whole point.

No other country agrees on that.

Aquiring asuffecient quantity and having to talk to people
has the effect of calming or re-analising the situation.

Bull****.

They've even painted yellow lines on teh underground station platforms,
this is because peole are stupid and they NEED to go given limits,
but those lines don;t stop anyone from commiting suicide there
aim is to educate the stupid and make them THINK, also make
them THINK accident can happen and if you're balancing on
the edge of a cliff or station you can fall or be pushed.

Nothing to do with suicide.

because they don;t think of such things as being painful.

whisky-dave wrote
Rod Speed wrote
whisky-dave wrote
Rod Speed wrote
whisky-dave wrote
Tim Watts wrote
whisky-dave wrote

No it's due to suicides as it's a common way top attempt it pill
overdose

http://freakonomics.com/2011/05/17/w...ls-in-england/

Which is odd as it must the worst method possible.

Yep, that's the problem the people that think like this aren't
thinking straight.

Plenty of them are, most obviously with euthanasia.

But it's extremly difficult to kill yourself with
standard dose asprin you'd need to take 50+.

I'm not convinced that that would kill you

50 wouldn;t there is a formulae 1.7g per 1KG body wieght 50% of peole
would be killed is the estimate.

Which is nothing like 50 pills. Try 1K for a 60Kg person.

and that is a completely separate matter to your claim I
commented on, whether most who suicide aren't thinking straight.

Those that attempt it with asprin/paracetomol aren't in their right mind.

Or are just pig ignorant.

Or do you think that those that go to switzerland for euthanasia
are stupid because they could just go to a supermarket and buy
a couple of 100 pills for a fraction of the air fare ?

That wont kill them with aspirin.

Because that IS a fact. about 35p for 16 pills of 300mg.

Which wont kill you with aspirin.

Many of them are, most obviously with euthanasia.

I believe those ARE thinking straight.

Pity about your original that you have carefully deleted from the quoting.

Try listening to them.

Been doing that since long before you ever showed up.

The doctors certainly think they know what they want.

So your original is just plain wrong.

It either doesn't work or it takes so long to work that the victim
changes their mind by which time their liver is so buggered that
death is merely a matter of time - a horrible nasty painful time.

Yep, it's the simplest drug to take and the one most likely to be
in the home in quantity. That's why they stopped selling large
containers of 200 because people brought them to save money.
Those considering suicide because they weanted to die or for
attention just headed for the nearest bottle of pills.

Doesn't explain why Britain is one of the few places
that bans those quantitys for normal retail sales.

It does when it's a nanny state

Its no more a nanny state than plenty of others.

Yes it is.

Bull****.

We aren't allowed like the USA,

Try that again in english.

we have speed restrictions on roads,

So does the US and almost everywhere else.

unlike teh autobahn.

It has speed restrictions too.

Not allowed to smoke at work or at play in pubs/clubs, resturants.

Same in plenty of other countrys too.

and the FACT that those people that do attempt to
kill themselves by that method fail but end up with
some such disability as liver failer and need treatment.

I just don't believe that many actually attempt
to kill themselves using lots of aspirins.

Well you're wrong

Nope.

ask the medical profession.

They wouldn't know.

For most it's a cry for help

Which aint suicide, stupid.

it was with my flatmat which is why she phoned her friend
after taking the pills saying where she was but don;t come
to help her as she'd taken a bottle of pills to kill herself.

So it wasn't suicide, stupid.

You just don;t phone a friend with a car that lives 10mins away
and tell them where you are if you truely want to kill yourself.

So it wasn't suicide, stupid.

Then there's still the 'accidental' overdose

I don't believe that happens much with aspirin
in the sort of quantity that produces liver failure.

Actually I think it's kidney failure, but they do want people
that taking just one a day can cause stomuch ulcers, so not
sure what effect taking a 100 in a few minutes might do.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspirin_poisoning#Severity

or the help me overdoes,

If you're taking other medicines and asprin you might
exceed a safe limit which is about 4g per day.

But the limit on how many you can buy will have no effect on that.

You do realise that you can even be killed by drinking too much water.

But there is no limit on how much of that you can buy at a time.

You can do that with spirits too, and there is no limit on
how much of that you can buy at a time in a bottle either.

I had a flatmate (before she lived with me) who took about
15 paracetomols to kill herself because she was despressed.
She failed.

Sure, paracetamol can certainly kill you.

People think all headache pills can kill

I doubt too many think that about aspirin.

and they can, depending on quantity.

Its just not feasible to take 1K aspirins.

If it were a 100 or 200 jar she might have done
her self some serioius harm but not death.

I just don't believe that many would buy 100 or 200 jars of paracetamol.

You don't need to buy them they just need to be at hand at the 'right
time'.

They wouldn't be on hand at the right time unless you buy them.

http://freakonomics.com/2011/05/17/w...ls-in-england/

"LESTER: They started doing that about five years ago, and they restrict
the numbers, and they put them in plastic blisters so you have to tear
them
out.

That last was done for other reasons, to make
it harder for kids to take them accidentally.

So was putting child proof caps on bottles,

Those are much more of a problem for those with arthritis etc.

that didn;t stop people commiting suicide either,
but the aim of that was to stop accidents.

What I said.

And again, you'd think all I have to do is go to six drugstores, you
know,
buy packets in each of them, all I have to do is just tear them out. But
it
has cut down the number of overdoses. It's also cut down the number
of serious overdoses that have led to kidney damage. Now, very few
people died of an acetaminophen overdose. So it's been hard to
document that it cut the number of deaths, but certainly the number
of attempts. The overdoses with it have been cut dramatically. And
they did think about other things. You know, they did think about
putting bitter tasting substances in it, or a substance that would
make you vomit if you took too many. But they decided that was
perhaps...That would interfere with the appropriate use of an
analgesic such as Tylenol or aspirin. You know, the people who
really needed them for headache would find it unpleasant to
take them. ... It's been remarkable, a success, that."

That is mostly just waffle.

yes but valid waffle.

Nope, irrelevant waffle.

They dont; make these pills is straberry flavour either.
It's not to stop or redcue suicides, it so that if a child
does happen to take one thatey don;t find it exactly
pleasant, and they don;t make them muilticouloured
either for the same reason.

They do in fact make some of them multicoloured.

It isnt even one of the few places
that bans those and guns as well.

If I wanted to top myself, I'd use any inert gas except for CO2.
So you have inert gas in your home just waiting to be used.

Its easy enough to get some if you want to do that.

Which is easier going to the cabinet in my kitchen

You wont be able to find much that can kill you reliably there.

it doesn't have to be a relible method any
more than those that slash their wrists.

You wont find much that can kill you unreliably there either.

or for you to go and find your inert gas,

Its completely trivial to do that, any place flogging party balloons.

Just the sort of place you'll go to when suffering depretion a 'party'
and anyway there's moves to stop those helium ballon sellers,

Not by anyone that matters.

why do you think that is, because NASA was affraid of teh competition ?

Because its obviously possible to kill yourself accidentally,
particularly given that helium has an interesting effect on
your voice.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-11810372

He did not try to commit suicide, he was killed in an accident,

It was a she.

you can stop such accidents by baning these ballons
or requiring a license to sell them with helium.

That wouldn't stop someone from breathing it out of the balloon.

Which is what they plan to do.

Bet they don't, because there is no viable alternative for balloons.

and now think about the averaae person in the UK. I bet
half wouldn't know what an inert gas was let alone find it.

Sure, but that's just as true of what will kill
you reliably in the medicine cabinet too or
even the cupboard under the sink or the shed.

Yes which is why they choose such things
rather than helium, far esieir to aquire.

Its actually due to ignorance, not the ease.

The main exception is rope.

the expression give someone enough rope
and they'll hang themselves comes to mind.

and then there's cost.

It doesn't cost enough to matter.

What doesn;t cost enough ?

Helium.

Most people that think of killing themselves do it on the spot and use
whatever is to hand they don;t normally go out and purchase items.

You don't know that.

I do, it's not the first time I've discussed this. I've known
3 people who have attempted to kill themselves. One
ended up in goodmayes psychiatric hospital.

The technical term for that is 'pathetically inadequate sample'

Then read the websites about it.

Been there, done that.

I actually know more than that who have chosen to
get what they need to kill themselves reliably if they
ever decide that they want to do that and all of those
have done that by going out and purchasing items.

So what did they buy.

All of the obvious alternatives, suicide bags, barbiturates,
nembutal, helium.

The one that has killed himself successfully used a rope.

How much rope ?, would he have used rope
if it were only sold in 1 inch lenghts ?

That's never going to happen.

These people aren't normally in their 'right mind' at the time.

Sure, those spontaneous ones, but there are plenty
of others that are, most obviously with euthanasia.

Which is also illegal in the UK.

Not if you do it to yourself.

Then it's not euthanasia is it.

Corse it is.

euthanasia and sucide ARE differnt even if
teh end result is the same. i.e a corpse.

Wrong.

Much more effective to get some helium
that's used for party balloons and use that.

It's not that effective and unlikely to kill you.

Its completely effective and always kills you
when you ensure that that is all you breath.

Which isn't that easy to do,

Bull****. Its completely trivial with a bag over your head.

Even you'd be able to manage that.

which is one you can count on one hand the
number of peole that have died in such a way.

Bull****.

Unless you can site a number of examples i.e greater than one.

if it realyl is that easy surly it'd be more popular

It is.

and far cheaper than traveling to switzerland.

The other obvious approach is nembutal,
trivially available in the third world over
the counter in places like Mexico.

A doubt many thinking of suicide wowuld
think of buying a ticket to mexico.

Plenty have done that.

yeah sure, it's quite comoon for people
going to mexico to buy paracetomol.
I must do it next time I need a packet.

They don't do that because they can buy it at home.

Just jump in front of a train on the way to heathrow .....

Most prefer the nembutal.

Most don;t.

You can buy in on the net too.

Two years ago you could by dehydrated water on the net.

Its easy to test whether what you bought is nembutal.

There's even been a far better suggestion in this NG, but
make sure you have the £20 on you before you do it.

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BjIKPAmCcAA31T3.jpg

That approach is very unreliable.

Not as unrelible as other methods,

Bull****.

plenty of people die from electricution.

**** all do in fact.

Another obvious approach is a heroin overdose,

heroin is illegal which could be a problem.

Nope, vast numbers use it every day.

But not to commide suicide,

Irrelevant to your claim about a problem.

that is NOT how peaches geldof died.

Irrelevant how that silly cow died.

but that's more risky because you can't be sure
it's the usual strength and so you can't be sure you
will kill yourself with say 10 times the normal dose.

Yep you could be solo asprin.

Try that again in english.

you can be sold anyhting and if it is wrong it can kill you.

A friend of mine changed his speed dealer, he injected it,
but didn;t know the new dealwer cut it with clucose rather
than anadin and he was rushed to hospital as his arm
swelled up. He was no taking speed to kill himself.

Irrelevant to those who do.

On Thursday, 9 October 2014 21:55:05 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:


I didn't dispute that, I JUST commented on that claim of yours now at the
top.

well it was to reduce suicides and accidental death, but that depends whether opr not you think taking 15 pills can be an accident or a cry for help or a suicide attempt.


as do those who do it via their car exhaust.

And the change made to the gas supplied to houses.

Not sure that's true,

Corse it is. The change from town gas to natural gas
meant that you couldn't suicide that way anymore.

I thought you could still kill yourself from natural gas.
I'm pretty sure you can in the same why you'd kill yourself with helium.
Natrual gase isn't poisonous but niether is a sharp kitchen knife.

they did not change the gas suply to
all house in order to reduce suicides,

No one said they did.

But they did limit the sales of pills like asprin and paracetomol to
reduce both the number of deaths from the product and the number of 'accidents'.

they added something to make the gas
smell making leaks easier to detect.

Which is irrelevant if you choose to kill yourself that way.

Unless you really don't like the smell.


10X that many choose drugs

Interesting that I couldn't find much in the way
of the detail on exactly what drugs they did use.

That;s true although most don;t chose herion to comite
suicide by, but that may well end up killing them.
I DO NOT believe peaches geldof attempted suicide.



They are first when it comes to thinhgs you can avoid,

That wasn't what you said originally.

What I said was they won;lt allow you to buy large

quanaties of asprin and this was because of suicides.

That isnt what is still at the top of the quoting.

Basically it was because peole were both dying and gettign seriously ill from taking too many asprin and/or paracetomol.
One way to reduce the likelihood of such events is to reduce the availibility of the products to hand at the time.

How do you suffocate yourself to death ?

Those bags those into euthanasia have been into for a long
time now. You put it over your head and its got a thing that
goes around your neck to get a decent seal there.

can you show a link to an incident where this actually happene din
the UK and where yuo can buy such things. I'd like a pack of 10 ;-)



There is nothing special about them, just a bag large enough
and something to wrap around the neck, a strip of cloth is fine
and so is packing tape or a large zip tie or some string.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_bag


I wonder how many people used them, few I'd have thought and they are illegal to buy.


The FACT is that the reason you can't buy jars of 100
asprin is because of suicides and accidental overdoses.

Even that is a very dubious proposition given that there are very
few countrys that ban the sale of that many aspirins at one time.

Ask the medical profession in the UK about sales in the UK.



No point, no one disputed that they are banned there.

But the reason(s) is apparently.

What is being discussed is whether it makes any sense to ban them.

well that would depend on how effective the ban has been.


No other country is that stupid.

Or clever. Or are you suggesting we should start selling guns as other contries sell them.
Maybe we should get rid of teh NHS too, it makes little sense other contries dont; have a NHS.


There's no ban on me buying too much rope or a ban on buying
too many pillows in argos in case I try to suffocate myslef.
There's no ban on knif buying( other than age restrictions)

Because those bans just arent practical.

Exactly it's pretty easy to tell companies that they
can;t sell bottles of 100 asprin/paracetomol.



And that is pointless because its trivial to buy 5 packs of 20 instead.

Not as trival as it was, I couldn't buy 3 in the same shop.


There is a ban on what used to be used to kill yourself with drugs wise.

Laudanum ?

Nope, barbiturates etc.


So barbiturates can't be brought is that what you're saying. ?



There is also a ban on poisons like cyanide that used
to be used for suicide most obviously by the nazis too.

It's because it's leathal and has little use that for the general public.

Duh.

Why would cyanide be brought ?
I'll tell you peole like smoking and cyanide exists in commercially availble cigs you can buy a quite a number of shops. I DO NOT know of anyone that has brought them with the aim to commite suicide.
The Nazis did but hopefully they are few and far between.
cyanide is NOT availble easily by the general public, so it's vberyu unlikely you#ll find suffecint quantaties in teh average home that you can 'take' in order to kill yourself.

Essentially because there is no real downside to those bans.

There's little downside to not being able to buy 100 paracetomol , but
I was stoped from buying 3 packets of headache pills in the supermarket..

I wasn't.

Lucky/unlukey you, most people are if they go to a reputable outlet in the UK.


The ban on aspirins is completely silly,

It's NOT a ban on Asprins any more than a 70MPH speed limit is a ban on
driving.

you cant kill yourself with too many aspirins



you can.
DO yy know about teh LD50 where 50% of teh population will die
from taking more than 1mg of pacetomol per 1Kg of body wieght.



Paracetamol is not aspirin.

if you are that clever you should know that ;-
Aspirin alone has been linked to numerous adverse side effects, including but not limited to: kidney failure, liver failure, ulcers, hearing loss and hemorrhagic stroke. A study conducted on the elderly in 2000 showed them to be even more at risk to being heavily affected, the study concluded that even when only taking an undersized 75mg/day dose significant changes were noted in their renal (kidney) functionality. The impact is not limited to the elderly however, as another study conducted in 2009 found 80% of individuals (previously qualified as perfectly healthy) experienced small intestinal toxicity, after just 14 days of low-dosage aspirin use.

ASprin can do you serious damage.




Yes it is, but by that tome most have 'calmed'

down or changed their mind in that time,



You don't know that.

I do . You don;t that's the differnece.



thats the whole point.

No other country agrees on that.

So what.


Aquiring asuffecient quantity and having to talk to people
has the effect of calming or re-analising the situation.



Bull****.

What do you think councilers do.


They've even painted yellow lines on teh underground station platforms,

this is because peole are stupid and they NEED to go given limits,

but those lines don;t stop anyone from commiting suicide there

aim is to educate the stupid and make them THINK, also make

them THINK accident can happen and if you're balancing on

the edge of a cliff or station you can fall or be pushed.



Nothing to do with suicide.

exactly but yellow lines can help stop accidents.

On 10/10/14 13:53, whisky-dave wrote:

I thought you could still kill yourself from natural gas.
I'm pretty sure you can in the same why you'd kill yourself with helium.
Natrual gase isn't poisonous but niether is a sharp kitchen knife.

That might work (nicely). The one to avoid is CO2 as the body detects
excess CO2 (in the form of acid blood) rather than a lack of O2.

Butane apparently makes you high - or so I recall back in the 80s when
some smackheads were sniffing it in a car and one got so high he lit a
fag...