On Thursday, 9 October 2014 01:49:17 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
whisky-dave wrote
Rod Speed wrote
whisky-dave wrote
Tim Watts wrote
whisky-dave wrote
No it's due to suicides as it's a common way top attempt it pill
overdose
http://freakonomics.com/2011/05/17/w...ls-in-england/
Which is odd as it must the worst method possible.
Yep, that's the problem the people that think like this aren't thinking
straight.
Plenty of them are, most obviously with euthanasia.
But it's extremly difficult to kill yourself with
standard dose asprin you'd need to take 50+.
I'm not convinced that that would kill you
50 wouldn;t there is a formulae 1.7g per 1KG body wieght 50% of peole would be killed is the estimate.
and that is
a completely separate matter to you claim I commented
on, whether most who suicide aren't thinking straight.
Those that attempt it with asprin/paracetomol aren't in their right mind.
Or do you think that those that go to switzerland for euthanasia are stupid because they could just go to a supermarket and buy a couple of 100 pills for a fraction of the air fare ? Because that IS a fact.
about 35p for 16 pills of 300mg.
Many of them are, most obviously with euthanasia.
I believe those ARE thinking straight. Try listening to them.
The doctors certainly think they know what they want.
It either doesn't work or it takes so long to work that the victim
changes their mind by which time their liver is so buggered that
death is merely a matter of time - a horrible nasty painful time.
Yep, it's the simplest drug to take and the one most likely to be
in the home in quantity. That's why they stopped selling large
containers of 200 because people brought them to save money.
Those considering suicide because they weanted to die or for
attention just headed for the nearest bottle of pills.
Doesn't explain why Britain is one of the few places
that bans those quantitys for normal retail sales.
It does when it's a nanny state
Its no more a nanny state than plenty of others.
Yes it is. We aren't allowed like the USA, we have speed restrictions on roads, unlike teh autobahn. Not allowed to smoke at work or at play in pubs/clubs, resturants.
and the FACT that those people that do attempt to
kill themselves by that method fail but end up with
some such disability as liver failer and need treatment.
I just don't believe that many actually attempt
to kill themselves using lots of aspirins.
Well you're wrong ask the medical profession. For most it's a cry for help it was with my flatmat which is why she phoned her friend after taking the pills saying where she was but don;t come to help her as she'd taken a bottle of pills to kill herself. You just don;t phone a friend with a car that lives 10mins away and tell them where you are if you truely want to kill yourself.
Then there's still the 'accidental' overdose
I don't believe that happens much with aspirin
in the sort of quantity that produces liver failure.
Actually I think it's kidney failure, but they do want people that taking just one a day can cause stomuch ulcers, so not sure what effect taking a 100 in a few minutes might do.
or the help me overdoes,
If you're taking other medicines and asprin you might exceed a safe limit which is about 4g per day.
You do realise that you can even be killed by drinking too much water.
Not clear what you mean there.
I had a flatmate (before she lived with me) who took about
15 paracetomols to kill herself because she was despressed.
She failed.
Sure, paracetamol can certainly kill you.
People think all headache pills can kill and they can, depending on quantity.
If it were a 100 or 200 jar she might have done
her self some serioius harm but not death.
I just don't believe that many would buy 100 or 200 jars of paracetamol.
You don't need to buy them they just need to be at hand at the 'right time'..
http://freakonomics.com/2011/05/17/w...ls-in-england/
"LESTER: They started doing that about five years ago, and they restrict
the
numbers, and they put them in plastic blisters so you have to tear them
out.
That last was done for other reasons, to make it harder for kids to take
them accidentally.
So was putting child proof caps on bottles, that didn;t stop people commiting suicide either, but the aim of that was to stop accidents.
And again, you'd think all I have to do is go to six drugstores, you know,
buy packets in each of them, all I have to do is just tear them out. But
it
has cut down the number of overdoses. It's also cut down the number
of serious overdoses that have led to kidney damage. Now, very few
people died of an acetaminophen overdose. So it's been hard to
document that it cut the number of deaths, but certainly the number
of attempts. The overdoses with it have been cut dramatically. And
they did think about other things. You know, they did think about
putting bitter tasting substances in it, or a substance that would
make you vomit if you took too many. But they decided that was
perhaps...That would interfere with the appropriate use of an
analgesic such as Tylenol or aspirin. You know, the people who
really needed them for headache would find it unpleasant to
take them. ... It's been remarkable, a success, that."
That is mostly just waffle.
yes but valid waffle.
They dont; make these pills is straberry flavour either.
It's not to stop or redcue suicides, it so that if a child does happen to take one thatey don;t find it exactly pleasant, and they don;t make them muilticouloured either for the same reason.
It isnt even one of the few places
that bans those and guns as well.
If I wanted to top myself, I'd use any inert gas except for CO2.
So you have inert gas in your home just waiting to be used.
Its easy enough to get some if you want to do that.
Which is easier going to the cabinet in my kitchen
You wont be able to find much that can kill you reliably there.
it doesn't have to be a relible method any more than those that slash their wrists.
or for you to go and find your inert gas,
Its completely trivial to do that, any place flogging party balloons.
Just the sort of place you'll go to when suffering depretion a 'party'
and anyway there's moves to stop those helium ballon sellers, why do you think that is, because NASA was affraid of teh competition ?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-11810372
He did not try to commit suicide, he was killed in an accident,
you can stop such accidents by baning these ballons or requiring a license to sell them with helium. Which is what they plan to do.
and now think about the averaae person in the UK. I bet
half wouldn't know what an inert gas was let alone find it.
Sure, but that's just as true of what will kill
you reliably in the medicine cabinet too or
even the cupboard under the sink or the shed.
Yes which is why they choose such things rather than helium, far esieir to aquire.
The main exception is rope.
the expression give someone enough rope and they'll hang themselves comes to mind.
and then there's cost.
It doesn't cost enough to matter.
What doesn;t cost enough ?
Most people that think of killing themselves do it on the spot and use
whatever is to hand they don;t normally go out and purchase items.
You don't know that.
I do, it's not the first time I've discussed this. I've known
3 people who have attempted to kill themselves. One
ended up in goodmayes psychiatric hospital.
The technical term for that is 'pathetically inadequate sample'
Then read the websites about it.
Your example of NO-ONE is less than a 'pathetically inadequate sample'
I actually know more than that who have chosen to
get what they need to kill themselves reliably if they
ever decide that they want to do that and all of those
have done that by going out and purchasing items.
So what did they buy.
The one that has killed himself successfully used a rope.
How much rope ?, would he have used rope if it were only sold in 1 inch lenghts ?
These people aren't normally in their 'right mind' at the time.
Sure, those spontaneous ones, but there are plenty
of others that are, most obviously with euthanasia.
Which is also illegal in the UK.
Not if you do it to yourself.
Then it's not euthanasia is it.
euthanasia and sucide ARE differnt even if teh end result is the same.
i.e a corpse.
Much more effective to get some helium
that's used for party balloons and use that.
It's not that effective and unlikely to kill you.
Its completely effective and always kills you
when you ensure that that is all you breath.
Which isn't that easy to do, which is one you can count on one hand the number of peole that have died in such a way.
Unless you can site a number of examples i.e greater than one.
if it realyl is that easy surly it'd be more popular and far cheaper than traveling to switzerland.
The other obvious approach is nembutal,
trivially available in the third world over
the counter in places like Mexico.
A doubt many thinking of suicide wowuld
think of buying a ticket to mexico.
Plenty have done that.
yeah sure, it's quite comoon for people going to mexico to buy paracetomol.
I must do it next time I need a packet.
Just jump in front of a train on the way to heathrow .....
Most prefer the nembutal.
Most don;t.
You can buy in on the net too.
Two years ago you could by dehydrated water on the net.
There's even been a far better suggestion in this NG, but
make sure you have the £20 on you before you do it.
http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BjIKPAmCcAA31T3.jpg
That approach is very unreliable.
Not as unrelible as other methods, plenty of people die from electricution.
Another obvious approach is a heroin overdose,
heroin is illegal which could be a problem.
Nope, vast numbers use it every day.
But not to commide suicide, that is NOT how peaches geldof died.
but that's more risky because you can't be sure
it's the usual strength and so you can't be sure you
will kill yourself with say 10 times the normal dose.
Yep you could be solo asprin.
Try that again in english.
you can be sold anyhting and if it is wrong it can kill you.
A friend of mine changed his speed dealer, he injected it, but didn;t know the new dealwer cut it with clucose rather than anadin and he was rushed to hospital as his arm swelled up. He was no taking speed to kill himself.