On Fri, 23 Aug 2013 22:17:57 +0100, polygonum wrote:


It's a bloomin' nightmare for people if they move around - maybe staying
in a holiday let, or looking after a relative's house. Some of the
differences are towards the subtle end of the spectrum and so very, very
easy to get wrong. We have already had two eight-page leaflets and we
will probably get more before or at implementation. That is quite a lot
to take in before you chuck something in the bin. The "rules" here seem
to insist that any mistake results in receptacles not being emptied.

So f*ck 'em. Let it all go to landfill asthat is where it will probably end up
anyway, maybe even overseas because quite a few 'recycling schemes' have bugger
all traceability.


--

On 24/08/2013 08:57, The Other Mike wrote:
On Fri, 23 Aug 2013 16:29:43 +0100, Nightjar
wrote:

On 23/08/2013 16:15, Unbeliever wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote:
We have three bins in our kitchen, ...
I'd like to get rid of the 'general waste' bin.

Carry on, there's nothing to stop you - other than it belongs to the LA and
could be considered as theft if you do.

The LA provides you with the bins you keep in the kitchen? Mine doesn't
even provide me with a general waste bin for outside.

How do they get away with that then?

Do you have to buy your own?


I do not understand the bit you are questioning. Who is getting away
with what?

Our local authority will be supplying us with both an outside brown food
waste bin and a silver/grey food waste "caddy" for use within our kitchen.

--
Rod

In article ,
The Other Mike wrote:

The idea of sorting it all out and then having the council ship it off to a
landfill dump in a third world country is also antisocial.

Following all the bad press about this, our council published some info
on where their recycling goes (assuming you believe them :-)).

Batteries go to Belgium to Revatech

Food waste goes to Maidstone (so 40mins or so away)

mixed recycling goes to rainham (maybe 30-40 miles?) and is sorted
and processed. Plastics turned into pellets there. Cans sent to Llanelli
(bit of a trek!). Aluminium to Warrington or Redditch.

Glass heads to Dagenham or South Kirby. Card to Erith.

Garden waste goes to Capel-le-Ferne (about 2 miles away) where is it
composted on a farm. This is why no food waste is allowed in there. It used
to be allowed, but now any suggestion of food waste and the foot and mouth
rules that came in bans it from being carried onto the farm site. (apparantly
no idea how true that is). Also the reason Knotweed and Ragwort are not
allowed?

Apparantly the "landfill" bin no longer goes to landfill, but is sent to
be incinerated and generate power. No idea where...

Assuming this is really what happens then it's not too bad IMO.

Darren

Brian Gaff wrote:

Shredded paper apparently won't be accepted here as the fibres are too
short

My LA accepts shredded paper, but won't let it be bagged-up in paper
bags to go in the paper-recycling crate, it has to be tipped in as is.

Needless to say, a gentle breeze blows it all over the street. One
only does this once, then bags it up and puts it in with the general
waste. Clever, what?


--
Terry Fields

On Sat, 24 Aug 2013 09:05:03 +0100, polygonum wrote:

I do not understand the bit you are questioning. Who is getting away
with what?

"Mine doesn't even provide me with a general waste bin for outside."


--

On 24/08/2013 09:16, The Other Mike wrote:
On Sat, 24 Aug 2013 09:05:03 +0100, polygonum wrote:

I do not understand the bit you are questioning. Who is getting away
with what?

"Mine doesn't even provide me with a general waste bin for outside."


Must say, I am surprised that ours is going to supply such a caddy. They
supplied a kitchen food waste caddy several years ago and the usual way
these things seem to work is that they supply one and that is your lot.

However any replacement of any of the bins, for any reason, is
chargeable. So if the bin associated with the property disappeared, we
too would end up without one until we pay for a replacement. Perhaps
that is what happened? Or maybe it is like some properties in our area
which have no bins but do get plastic bags instead?

--
Rod

"Huge" wrote in message
...
On 2013-08-23, Andrew May wrote:
On 23/08/2013 13:38, John Williamson wrote:

I reckon I must spend all of a minute extra per week making sure that
stuff goes into the right bin of the four supplied.


But if there are 20m households in the UK that is the equivalent to 173
man-years of extra work per year. I know it is only a small amount on an
individual basis but if they can use that sort of calculation to show
that everybody's TV standby consumes a LOT of electricity then surely it
works both ways,

Good point, although it's the principle I object to. There are shedloads
of things that businesses now expect the customer to do, which used to
be done by them, and it ****es me off;

well that's caused by the race to the bottom on "headline" pricing.

And companies that didn't play the game found that they lost customers as
there aren't enough who are prepared to "pay" for the better service. So
they all had to follow the pack

tim

"John Williamson" wrote in message
...
Huge wrote:
On 2013-08-23, John Williamson wrote:
Huge wrote:
On 2013-08-23, Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
Huge wrote:
I'd send a bill to your council for the time you spend sorting your
rubbish,
a task you already pay them for.
Rubbish. If you want them to do it, they'll have to charge more. If I
have an empty bottle or plastic drinks bottle in my mitt, how hard is
it to put it in the right container?
Harder than putting it in the single bin my council provide. Plus the
storage space. Sorting waste should be done by your council.

I reckon I must spend all of a minute extra per week making sure that
stuff goes into the right bin of the four supplied.

You've spent longer than that (much longer) arguing about it.

If waste is sorted into separate bins as it's generated, it needs much
less sorting than it would if it were all put into one bin for later
sorting.

Tell someone who cares.

The materials gained by sorting at source are also better suited to
recycling than stuff obtained by sorting the general waste stream,

Except, as has so ably been demonstrated in this thread, you cannot rely
on householders to get it right.

saving everybody except the initial thrower-away time, money and energy.

I *am* the "initial thrower-away" and I don't GAS about the rest of it. I
pay someone to deal with my waste. Let them deal with it. I'll cheerfully
sort my rubbish at my consultancy rate.


While expecting the council to sort it at the legal minimum wage.

minimum wage jobs are better than no jobs

tim

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Nightjar wrote:

On 23/08/2013 11:12, Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
Huge wrote:

I'd send a bill to your council for the time you spend sorting your
rubbish, a task you already pay them for.

Rubbish. If you want them to do it, they'll have to charge more.

Not necessarily. Mixed recycling results in a significantly larger volume
of materials being recycled. Many councils argue that the resulting
higher income more than covers the additional cost of sorting it.

If I have an empty bottle or plastic drinks bottle in my mitt, how
hard is it to put it in the right container?

If I had that many different containers, I would have to walk outside to
the bin area in my garden to use them. With mixed recycling I can simply
have one extra bin indoors.

I have mixed recycling. I referred to a blue bin in an earlier post and
that is where most stuff goes. SWMBO puts it in the utility room and I
take it out from there. I really don't see the problem (assuming you have
room for the bins).

therein is the problem, for lots of people

tim

"Huge" wrote in message
...

tim..... wrote:

"Huge" wrote in message
...
On 2013-08-23, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , stuart noble
writes
On 23/08/2013 08:54, The Medway Handyman wrote:
We have three bins in our kitchen, one for food scraps, one for
recycling (don't have to sort it, everything goes in one bag), and a
third for 'general waste'.

It occurs to me, that we throw out either food waste or recycling
stuff.
What would you throw away that doesn't fall into either of those
categories?

I'd like to get rid of the 'general waste' bin.


polystyrene packaging from the big tele?

What do people do with unwanted paint?

My local tip (sorry, "Household Waste Recycling Site") has a drop-off
point for old paint.

I'm sure that they all (most) do

but even the most eco-friendly numpty can see that driving to the tip,
just to dump a tin of paint, is environmentally silly

You save it up until it's worth a trip, bozo.

and where do you keep all this rubbish while you are waiting to accumulate a
full load

Not everyone has a garage

tim

"John Williamson" wrote in message
...
tim..... wrote:

"Huge" wrote in message
...
On 2013-08-23, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , stuart noble
writes
On 23/08/2013 08:54, The Medway Handyman wrote:
We have three bins in our kitchen, one for food scraps, one for
recycling (don't have to sort it, everything goes in one bag), and a
third for 'general waste'.

It occurs to me, that we throw out either food waste or recycling
stuff.
What would you throw away that doesn't fall into either of those
categories?

I'd like to get rid of the 'general waste' bin.


polystyrene packaging from the big tele?

What do people do with unwanted paint?

My local tip (sorry, "Household Waste Recycling Site") has a drop-off
point for old paint.

I'm sure that they all (most) do

but even the most eco-friendly numpty can see that driving to the tip,
just to dump a tin of paint, is environmentally silly

Do you never just happen to be passing it?

AIH in my new house where I have been for 3 weeks I have passed by the
council tip twice (well passed by the end of the road where there's a sign
saying "tip this way", I have no idea how far down the road it is).

At the previous place where I lived 2.5 years...

no, never once did I have cause to go to (or even near) the estate where the
tip was located.

tim

"polygonum" wrote in message
...
On 23/08/2013 17:35, Tim Streater wrote:

Ours is in paper so it can be composted. Which it all is and then sold.
In fact the council gives us an even smaller grey bin for indoor
collection of food waste, but we don't see the point of that - just take
it straight out to the proper bin after wrapping it in paper.

New rules coming in soon for us:

"Due to government guidance we are no longer able to accept food waste
wrapped in newspaper, paper bags or kitchen roll. Please either use the
compostable caddy liners or tip the food in loose."

(And any bags must have the right symbol on them.)

Garden waste will no longer allow any food/kitchen waste.

I do wonder whether a windfall apple is food waste or garden waste?
(Whether it fell in the tree owner's garden or over the fence for those
who read u.l.m.)

a windfall apple is garden waste and may go in you garden waste bin

a bought apple gone rotten because you stupidly didn't eat it in time is
domestic refuse and may not go in your garden waste bin.

Though I'm not sure why councils have a problem with this as nowadays most
council charge extra for garden waste collection (if yours doesn't it will
soon) and domestic waste collection is free

tim

D.M.Chapman wrote:
In article ,
The Other Mike wrote:

The idea of sorting it all out and then having the council ship it off to a
landfill dump in a third world country is also antisocial.

Food waste goes to Maidstone (so 40mins or so away)

Round here they take the food waste away and cook it up to 60C to
sterilise it. A more anti-green green measure I've yet to imagine[1].


[1] Unless, say, someone were to come up with a way of generating
electricity that consumed more energy in building the generator that it
would ever create.

--
Scott

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Fri, 23 Aug 2013 11:30:27 +0100, Davey wrote:

"....packaging of types that are not accepted for recycling."
The annoying items in this category here are juice cartons,

They are around here but not kerbside.

egg cartons,

Seems a bit odd, they go the card board

I thought that

but I think he meant the rule was referring to the plastic type

tim..... wrote:

"John Williamson" wrote in message
...
Huge wrote:
On 2013-08-23, John Williamson wrote:
Huge wrote:
On 2013-08-23, Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
Huge wrote:
I'd send a bill to your council for the time you spend sorting
your rubbish,
a task you already pay them for.
Rubbish. If you want them to do it, they'll have to charge more.
If I have an empty bottle or plastic drinks bottle in my mitt, how
hard is it to put it in the right container?
Harder than putting it in the single bin my council provide. Plus the
storage space. Sorting waste should be done by your council.

I reckon I must spend all of a minute extra per week making sure
that stuff goes into the right bin of the four supplied.

You've spent longer than that (much longer) arguing about it.

If waste is sorted into separate bins as it's generated, it needs
much less sorting than it would if it were all put into one bin for
later sorting.

Tell someone who cares.

The materials gained by sorting at source are also better suited to
recycling than stuff obtained by sorting the general waste stream,

Except, as has so ably been demonstrated in this thread, you cannot rely
on householders to get it right.

saving everybody except the initial thrower-away time, money and
energy.

I *am* the "initial thrower-away" and I don't GAS about the rest of
it. I
pay someone to deal with my waste. Let them deal with it. I'll
cheerfully
sort my rubbish at my consultancy rate.


While expecting the council to sort it at the legal minimum wage.

minimum wage jobs are better than no jobs

I *was* pointing out the hypocricy of the poster wanting to charge for
his few seconds of time sorting rubbish at source at his consultancy
rate, so setting what he considers a fair price for the job, while being
perfectly happy for someone else to spend much more time sorting it
later (A much less pleasant job) for the legal minimum wage.

Whoosh!

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On 23 Aug 2013 14:14:47 GMT, Huge wrote:

And people think this "zillions of bins" stuff is easy.

It really does depend on your local council and available space.
Those ones with four or five wheelie bins per household plus an equal
number of other containers in a normal urban 3 bed semi setting are
just plain stupid.

and try moving to 2 bed terraces

tim

polygonum wrote:
On 24/08/2013 07:43, PeterC wrote:
On Fri, 23 Aug 2013 10:23:29 -0700 (PDT), Jonathan wrote:

BTW I understand polystyrene is easy to re-cycle but isn't because EU
targets are set by weight.

About 3 years ago the council said that we could recycle yoghurt pot
but not
polystyrene. At that time the pots I had were labelled PS!
Still, I have been told by more than one person that pots, rigid boxes
etc,
aren't PS because PS is white and crumbly.

Our rules currently state that we are allowed to dispose of plastic
bottles - but not most other plastic items such as pots, trays, and so on.

I keep wondering how a bottle is defined? I could understand if they
said something like typical PET fizzy drink bottles - but the range
between them and the other bottle-like containers is vast and poorly
defined. And how come they make no specification whatsoever about which
plastic the bottle is made from?

Because the vast majority, if not all, fizzy drinks bottles are made
from the same material. I've not looked, but I suspect that all the
plastic bottles you buy in the supermarket, with the possible exception
of milk bottles, which have a totally different "feel" when you pick
them up, are made of the same material.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On Sat, 24 Aug 2013 08:11:38 +0000 (UTC),
(D.M.Chapman) wrote:

Glass heads to Dagenham or South Kirby. Card to Erith.

On first reading, I wondered who was recycling glass heads ...

Garden waste goes to Capel-le-Ferne (about 2 miles away) where is it
composted on a farm. This is why no food waste is allowed in there. It used
to be allowed, but now any suggestion of food waste and the foot and mouth
rules that came in bans it from being carried onto the farm site. (apparantly
no idea how true that is). Also the reason Knotweed and Ragwort are not
allowed?

Yes, that makes sense. Both are highly pernicious weeds.

The former, usually referred to as Japanese Knotweed, is devastating.
Its shoots can grow through concrete, tarmac, the foundations of a new
house, etc. If you discover that a house you are thinking of buying
has a JK problem, either avoid it altogether, or factor in thousands
for attempting to eradicate it.

http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk...fe/130079.aspx

"It spreads through its crown, rhizome (underground stem) and stem
segments, rather than its seeds. The weed can grow a metre in a month
and can cause heave below concrete and tarmac, coming up through the
resulting cracks and damaging buildings and roads. Studies have shown
that a 1cm section of rhizome can produce a new plant in 10 days.
Rhizome segments can remain dormant in soil for twenty years before
producing new plants."
....
"The Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 states that it is an offence to
"plant or otherwise cause to grow in the wild" any plant listed in
Schedule nine, Part II of the Act. This lists over 30 plants including
Japanese knotweed, giant hogweed and parrot's feather. The police are
responsible for investigating this offence and each police force has a
wildlife liaison officer who can be contacted."

Incidentally, I originally read that as bindweed, which is quite bad
enough, and can make a crop almost impossible to combine, but is a
different class of problem entirely .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobaea_vulgaris

Ragwort, like dandelions, is a member of the daisy family and spreads
itself everywhere by wind-borne seeds. There are various sub-species
of ragwort, and one of the most ubiquitous is Oxford ragwort,
so-called because it escaped from an Oxford (botanic, IMS) garden onto
a nearby railway line and thus quickly spread itself all over the
country through its seeds being carried along the tracks in the
slipstreams of trains. These days, motorways do it the same service.

The particular trouble with it is that it's poisonous to stock - it
contains an alkaloid poison. Stock - either instinctively, or learn
to - avoid it when it grows in a field, but if it gets in hay, or
more commonly these days, silage, they can't see the distinctive
yellow flowers, eat it, and may die as a result.

I always pick it now on any land that I own, and, over a few seasons,
this will reduce its incidence to what has blown in the previous year.
The best time to pull anything is usually before you first mow, and
ragwort is no exception - like many similar weeds, before being
mown, the plant grows straight and tall, and if you grab it firmly as
low down as you can get, and pull with increasing force, most times
the whole plant, including the tap-root, will come out; after being
mown, the plant thinks it has been eaten and changes its growth
pattern to hug the ground in the form of a rosette, and this makes it
much more difficult to pull, though it can be done - you have to
ensure that you've got the whole rosette.

Thistles behave similarly to this as well, which is unsurprising, as
IMS they're all daisy family.

Daisy family pullings should preferably be burnt immediately,
otherwise the plants will use the life left in the stems, etc, to
flower and perhaps produce seed, and thereby may still manage to
reproduce themselves!
--
================================================== =======
Please always reply to ng as the email in this post's
header does not exist. Or use a contact address at:
http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/JavaJive.html
http://www.macfh.co.uk/Macfarlane/Macfarlane.html

"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
...
In message , Nightjar
writes
On 23/08/2013 08:54, The Medway Handyman wrote:
We have three bins in our kitchen, one for food scraps, one for
recycling (don't have to sort it, everything goes in one bag), and a
third for 'general waste'.

It occurs to me, that we throw out either food waste or recycling stuff.
What would you throw away that doesn't fall into either of those
categories?

I'd like to get rid of the 'general waste' bin.


It is going to vary from person to person and possibly depending upon what
is accepted for recycling. I produce little or no food waste in a week. My
general waste is about one swing bin full every week. I can't say I have
ever analysed what it consists of, but I suspect most of it will be
packaging of types that are not accepted for recycling.

There's a beef! Why are packaging manufacturers allowed to use
non-recyclable material?

I agree

This problem isn't created by the recipient, it's created by the producer

I can see that there are some things that, for genuine health and safety
reason, such as drug packaging, it can't be that simple. But where the only
reason for doing something is producer convenience then the rule should be -
"if it can't be recycled, you can't use it".

My biggest bugbear here is "window envelopes". If they can't be recycled
(as many LA's claim) then marketing companies shouldn't be allowed to use
them - simples. And I bet that they'd find a way of making then recyclable
pretty damned quickly if that were the rule.

Having said that. When Germany introduced its rule about producers having
to pay for the collection and disposal of packaging, TPTB expected that this
would result in a reduction in the quantity of packaging used. But it
didn't. The companies involved found that it was quicker and cheaper to
just set up a scheme (Grüner Punkt) whereby they paid for the collection of
all of the packaging material from domestic residents and recycled/dumped it
in the normal way, than lose the advantages (whatever they are) of the
packaging.

tim

On Saturday 24 August 2013 10:09 Scott M wrote in uk.d-i-y:

D.M.Chapman wrote:
In article ,
The Other Mike wrote:

The idea of sorting it all out and then having the council ship it off
to a landfill dump in a third world country is also antisocial.

Food waste goes to Maidstone (so 40mins or so away)

Round here they take the food waste away and cook it up to 60C to
sterilise it. A more anti-green green measure I've yet to imagine[1].


[1] Unless, say, someone were to come up with a way of generating
electricity that consumed more energy in building the generator that it
would ever create.


The "cooking" is usually done in a natural composter. Compost can get this
hot in the right conditions - and the compost facilities that accept food
waster have to provide the "right conditions" (and presumably recorded
monitoring) rather than just lob it in a pile and turn it a couple of times
with a bulldozer.


--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

Tim Watts wrote:
On Saturday 24 August 2013 10:09 Scott M wrote in uk.d-i-y:

D.M.Chapman wrote:
In article ,
The Other Mike wrote:

The idea of sorting it all out and then having the council ship it off
to a landfill dump in a third world country is also antisocial.
Food waste goes to Maidstone (so 40mins or so away)
Round here they take the food waste away and cook it up to 60C to
sterilise it. A more anti-green green measure I've yet to imagine[1].


[1] Unless, say, someone were to come up with a way of generating
electricity that consumed more energy in building the generator that it
would ever create.


The "cooking" is usually done in a natural composter. Compost can get this
hot in the right conditions - and the compost facilities that accept food
waster have to provide the "right conditions" (and presumably recorded
monitoring) rather than just lob it in a pile and turn it a couple of times
with a bulldozer.

I'd not thought of that, makes sense. Just wherever I read it in one of
the council pamphlets I came away gave the impression of being stuck in
ovens and baked (which I wouldn't put past the average council and their
kooki ideas.)

--
Scott

Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?

On 24/08/2013 10:08, tim..... wrote:

"polygonum" wrote in message
...
On 23/08/2013 17:35, Tim Streater wrote:

Ours is in paper so it can be composted. Which it all is and then sold.
In fact the council gives us an even smaller grey bin for indoor
collection of food waste, but we don't see the point of that - just take
it straight out to the proper bin after wrapping it in paper.

New rules coming in soon for us:

"Due to government guidance we are no longer able to accept food waste
wrapped in newspaper, paper bags or kitchen roll. Please either use
the compostable caddy liners or tip the food in loose."

(And any bags must have the right symbol on them.)

Garden waste will no longer allow any food/kitchen waste.

I do wonder whether a windfall apple is food waste or garden waste?
(Whether it fell in the tree owner's garden or over the fence for
those who read u.l.m.)

a windfall apple is garden waste and may go in you garden waste bin

a bought apple gone rotten because you stupidly didn't eat it in time is
domestic refuse and may not go in your garden waste bin.

Though I'm not sure why councils have a problem with this as nowadays
most council charge extra for garden waste collection (if yours doesn't
it will soon) and domestic waste collection is free

tim


Unless I leave the little labels on the apples, how would they know
where the apple came from?

--
Rod

On 24/08/2013 08:57, The Other Mike wrote:
On Fri, 23 Aug 2013 16:29:43 +0100, Nightjar
wrote:

On 23/08/2013 16:15, Unbeliever wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote:
We have three bins in our kitchen, ...
I'd like to get rid of the 'general waste' bin.

Carry on, there's nothing to stop you - other than it belongs to the LA and
could be considered as theft if you do.

The LA provides you with the bins you keep in the kitchen? Mine doesn't
even provide me with a general waste bin for outside.

How do they get away with that then?

Do you have to buy your own?

If you want one, yes. Most people just stack black plastic bags on the
pavement on collection days.

Colin Bignell

On 24/08/2013 10:16, John Williamson wrote:
polygonum wrote:
On 24/08/2013 07:43, PeterC wrote:
On Fri, 23 Aug 2013 10:23:29 -0700 (PDT), Jonathan wrote:

BTW I understand polystyrene is easy to re-cycle but isn't because
EU targets are set by weight.

About 3 years ago the council said that we could recycle yoghurt pot
but not
polystyrene. At that time the pots I had were labelled PS!
Still, I have been told by more than one person that pots, rigid
boxes etc,
aren't PS because PS is white and crumbly.

Our rules currently state that we are allowed to dispose of plastic
bottles - but not most other plastic items such as pots, trays, and so
on.

I keep wondering how a bottle is defined? I could understand if they
said something like typical PET fizzy drink bottles - but the range
between them and the other bottle-like containers is vast and poorly
defined. And how come they make no specification whatsoever about
which plastic the bottle is made from?

Because the vast majority, if not all, fizzy drinks bottles are made
from the same material. I've not looked, but I suspect that all the
plastic bottles you buy in the supermarket, with the possible exception
of milk bottles, which have a totally different "feel" when you pick
them up, are made of the same material.

That is true - I agree that most fizzy drink bottles seem to be PET. But
there are lots and lots of other bottles and bottle-like containers. PE
washing up liquid bottles. Fabric softener bottles made of something or
other. PVC oil and vinegar bottles. Corn-starch derived water bottles.
Multilayer polypropylene bottles for "health" drinks.

--
Rod

"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 24/08/2013 06:27, alan wrote:
On 23/08/2013 13:41, Nightjar wrote:


Not necessarily. Mixed recycling results in a significantly larger
volume of materials being recycled. Many councils argue that the
resulting higher income more than covers the additional cost of
sorting it.

Is there any income?...

I don't know about other areas, but around here, waste management
companies bid for the right to make the collections. The LA certainly get
an income from that and I presume the waste management companies make
money from it too.

Are you sure that the bidding process is won by the person who pays the
most, rather than the person who charges the least

tim

(I make stock from chicken carcasses.)

Overrated IMO. Yes, you get lots of gelatin, but that tastes of nothing.
Easier to use the powdered stuff

On 24/08/2013 08:29, Tim Watts wrote:
On Friday 23 August 2013 21:43 dennis@home wrote in uk.d-i-y:

On 23/08/2013 20:43, Andy Burns wrote:
Nightjar wrote:

On 23/08/2013 11:12, Tim Streater wrote:

Huge wrote:

I'd send a bill to your council for the time you spend sorting
your rubbish, a task you already pay them for.

Rubbish. If you want them to do it, they'll have to charge more.

Not necessarily. Mixed recycling results in a significantly larger
volume of materials being recycled. Many councils argue that the
resulting higher income more than covers the additional cost of
sorting it.

I think that's the theory they're working on here, not only have they
gone from 4 bins collected by 3 lorries to 2 bins collected by 2
lorries, they've also gone from fortnightly recycling to weekly
recycling (keeping weekly rubbish too), they've then got to sort it, so
they must see an upside to the new scheme ...





They approximate figures are that the council gets paid about £15 for
recyclables and has to pay about £60 for landfill (per tonne?).
People like hugh that refuse to recycle are costing us money.
They should pay more than those that recycle and not expect others to
subsidise their idleness.

I hope you are driving your own rubbish to the landfill and not expecting
others to subsidise your idleness.


I leave it out with the recycling so they can collect it at the same
time as the rest. If I take it to the tip it will cost them more to
handle it and then take it to landfill.

On 24/08/2013 10:09, Scott M wrote:
D.M.Chapman wrote:
In article ,
The Other Mike wrote:

The idea of sorting it all out and then having the council ship it
off to a
landfill dump in a third world country is also antisocial.

Food waste goes to Maidstone (so 40mins or so away)

Round here they take the food waste away and cook it up to 60C to
sterilise it. A more anti-green green measure I've yet to imagine[1].


[1] Unless, say, someone were to come up with a way of generating
electricity that consumed more energy in building the generator that it
would ever create.


anaerobic digester?
It can generate methane which you can burn to heat the stuff up.
It may generate an excess of energy.

On 24/08/2013 11:28, polygonum wrote:

Unless I leave the little labels on the apples, how would they know
where the apple came from?


DNA testing?

"stuart noble" wrote in message
...
(I make stock from chicken carcasses.)

Overrated IMO. Yes, you get lots of gelatin, but that tastes of nothing.

IMHO it tastes far worse than nothing

tim

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Mr Pounder" wrote:

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Mr Pounder" wrote:

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Mr Pounder" wrote:

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Mr Pounder" wrote:

I used to know a bloke who lives in the south.
He once told me that they have to wrap the food waste up in
newspaper and then put it in the bin. To me this seems to be
begging for flies, maggots and horrible smells.

How can flies get in if the bin is locked? We have a small grey
bin for this purpose and it's collected once a week. As the food
waste *is* wrapped up in paper that makes it harder for flies
anyway, even if the lid were open (which it's not).

We put the food waste in sealed plastic bags and then in the
bin.

Ours is in paper so it can be composted. Which it all is and then
sold. In fact the council gives us an even smaller grey bin for
indoor collection of food waste, but we don't see the point of
that - just take it straight out to the proper bin after wrapping
it in paper.

And we only put meat/fish/catfood waste in that anyway. All
vegetable scraps we compost ourselves.

Food wrapped in newspaper rotting and stinking for two weeks. I
think not.

**** me, you need new glasses. What part of "it's collected weekly"
is too hard for you to understand?

Yours may be, the bloke I was referring to has a two week collection.
Sorry to confuse you, I should have made myself clearer.
Do you really have to wrap stinking cat **** in paper?

:-)

That is not supposed to go in the food recycling bin, wrapped in paper
or no. If we still had my cat (RIP two weeks ago) and it used a litter
tray, that would get put in the landfill bin.

Fair enough.
We have 3 wheelie bins:
One for garden waste which we can also put waste food in. We don't.
One for tins, glass, plastic etc which we are not allowed to bag up.
One for general rubbish. We use this mainly for bagged up kitchen waste.
And a plastic box with a lid for paper. The paper is also allowed in the
general bin ffs.
I use big bin liners in the garden and tin bin. This slows down the
****ed up and stinking process.
It was bin men day today. I left the top of the tin bin open to dry up
the spilt pop etc. It was immediately invaded by flies.
The system works well and I still find wrapping waste food in newspaper
quite unhygienic.
Maybe its not all that grim in the north.

We give a quick rinse to all bottles/tins etc so they are fairly clean as
they go in & I give them a shake to get rid of loose water.

I really can't be arsed doing that.

--
Tim

"That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines
imposed,
nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted" -- Bill of Rights 1689

On Saturday 24 August 2013 11:12 Scott M wrote in uk.d-i-y:


I'd not thought of that, makes sense. Just wherever I read it in one of
the council pamphlets I came away gave the impression of being stuck in
ovens and baked (which I wouldn't put past the average council and their
kooki ideas.)

Even the open pile (when I say "pile" it's actually the size of a small
house!) at one of the bigger dumps round here bellows steam on a good day.

I suspect, but don;t know for sure, that food waster composters have to be
enclosed and temperature monitored. An unenclosed pile like I saw obviously
gets bloody hot inside, but the surface will still be cool (not hot enough
to kill pathogens in the food waste). If it were enclosed in a covered
concrete bunker or something, it would probably get really hot all the way
through.

Hotter it gets, faster it composts so there is a win-back for the investment
in the right environment - the local dumps here all have big piles of bagged
compost made (somewhere else) from their green waste selling at a few quid a
bag - and it's pretty nice stuff.

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

On 24/08/2013 13:55, tim..... wrote:

"stuart noble" wrote in message
...
(I make stock from chicken carcasses.)

Overrated IMO. Yes, you get lots of gelatin, but that tastes of nothing.

IMHO it tastes far worse than nothing

tim



Produces a nice consistency for soup though

"Mr Pounder" wrote in message
...

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Mr Pounder" wrote:

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Mr Pounder" wrote:

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Mr Pounder" wrote:

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Mr Pounder" wrote:

I used to know a bloke who lives in the south.
He once told me that they have to wrap the food waste up in
newspaper and then put it in the bin. To me this seems to be
begging for flies, maggots and horrible smells.

How can flies get in if the bin is locked? We have a small grey
bin for this purpose and it's collected once a week. As the food
waste *is* wrapped up in paper that makes it harder for flies
anyway, even if the lid were open (which it's not).

We put the food waste in sealed plastic bags and then in the
bin.

Ours is in paper so it can be composted. Which it all is and
then sold. In fact the council gives us an even smaller grey bin
for indoor collection of food waste, but we don't see the point
of that - just take it straight out to the proper bin after
wrapping it in paper.

And we only put meat/fish/catfood waste in that anyway. All
vegetable scraps we compost ourselves.

Food wrapped in newspaper rotting and stinking for two weeks. I
think not.

**** me, you need new glasses. What part of "it's collected weekly"
is too hard for you to understand?

Yours may be, the bloke I was referring to has a two week collection.
Sorry to confuse you, I should have made myself clearer.
Do you really have to wrap stinking cat **** in paper?

:-)

That is not supposed to go in the food recycling bin, wrapped in paper
or no. If we still had my cat (RIP two weeks ago) and it used a litter
tray, that would get put in the landfill bin.

Fair enough.
We have 3 wheelie bins:
One for garden waste which we can also put waste food in. We don't.
One for tins, glass, plastic etc which we are not allowed to bag up.
One for general rubbish. We use this mainly for bagged up kitchen waste.
And a plastic box with a lid for paper. The paper is also allowed in the
general bin ffs.
I use big bin liners in the garden and tin bin. This slows down the
****ed up and stinking process.
It was bin men day today. I left the top of the tin bin open to dry up
the spilt pop etc. It was immediately invaded by flies.
The system works well and I still find wrapping waste food in newspaper
quite unhygienic.
Maybe its not all that grim in the north.

We give a quick rinse to all bottles/tins etc so they are fairly clean as
they go in & I give them a shake to get rid of loose water.

I really can't be arsed doing that.

my sister puts tins (for recycling) in the dishwasher :-(

tim

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"tim....." wrote:

My biggest bugbear here is "window envelopes". If they can't be recycled
(as many LA's claim) then marketing companies shouldn't be allowed to use
them - simples. And I bet that they'd find a way of making then
recyclable pretty damned quickly if that were the rule.

What makes you think it's only marketing companies that use window
envelopes? And WTF is a "marketing company" anyway?

Someone who sends out direct marketing garbage letters

And if they can't use window envelopes, what should they use instead? What
should, say, a small theatre company use when sending a letter to its
mailing list?

sticky labels :-)

tim

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"tim....." wrote:

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Nightjar wrote:

On 23/08/2013 11:12, Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
Huge wrote:

I'd send a bill to your council for the time you spend sorting your
rubbish, a task you already pay them for.

Rubbish. If you want them to do it, they'll have to charge more.

Not necessarily. Mixed recycling results in a significantly larger
volume of materials being recycled. Many councils argue that the
resulting higher income more than covers the additional cost of
sorting it.

If I have an empty bottle or plastic drinks bottle in my mitt, how
hard is it to put it in the right container?

If I had that many different containers, I would have to walk outside
to the bin area in my garden to use them. With mixed recycling I can
simply have one extra bin indoors.

I have mixed recycling. I referred to a blue bin in an earlier post and
that is where most stuff goes. SWMBO puts it in the utility room and I
take it out from there. I really don't see the problem (assuming you
have room for the bins).

therein is the problem, for lots of people

Then they should be whinging to their Districk Councillor to get the waste
collection policy modified for such properties. That is what their DC is
there for.

you think that people in unsuitable properties haven't complained about the
impracticability of storing the bins?

and do you think that it make a jot of difference to council policy?

tim



--
Tim

"That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines
imposed,
nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted" -- Bill of Rights 1689

tim..... wrote:

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"tim....." wrote:

My biggest bugbear here is "window envelopes". If they can't be
recycled (as many LA's claim) then marketing companies shouldn't be
allowed to use them - simples. And I bet that they'd find a way of
making then recyclable pretty damned quickly if that were the rule.

What makes you think it's only marketing companies that use window
envelopes? And WTF is a "marketing company" anyway?

Someone who sends out direct marketing garbage letters

And if they can't use window envelopes, what should they use instead?
What should, say, a small theatre company use when sending a letter to
its mailing list?

sticky labels :-)

On the letter, visible through the window... ;-)

Seriously, though, a lot of small organisations don't have the resources
to individually address each envelope to match the "personalised" letter
inside.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

The Other Mike wrote:

[snip]

The idea of sorting it all out and then having the council ship it off to a
landfill dump in a third world country is also antisocial.

Back when I first worked in Germany "recycling" consisted of leaving stuff
on the pavement on Wednesday night. The students then rooted through it and
took away what they wanted. Most of it would go, the rest was picked up by
the bin men.

Then they introduced the ****witted recycling now used in the UK. We had to
obsessively sort waste at home and in the office. After a few years it was
announced that "recycling" had been so successful that giant piles of paper
and glass that were banned from landfill were building up because there was
no demand for these as raw materials. The solution was to export it to
Belgium and bury it down mines. Legislation prevented this from being done
in disused German mines. A stupid waste of fuel simply to evade
legislation.

--
€¢DarWin|
_/ _/

"Dave Liquorice" wrote:
On Fri, 23 Aug 2013 20:08:41 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

By the time we have eaten te chicken, boiled te carcase into chicken and
sweetcormn soup, there isn't enough left for anything except doggy
chews. They polish it off in minutes

I didn't think it was a good idea to give dogs poultry bones as they
splinter rather than crack into lumps like mammal bones.

That's dogs descended from wolves who aren't averse to eating birds if they
can grab one, right?

--
€¢DarWin|
_/ _/

Huge wrote:
On 2013-08-23, alan wrote:

Until recently people around my way sorted glass by colour into large
road side bins. During collection each bin was picked up in turn and
emptied into the single compartment on the back of the lorry. Possibly
with no market for the old glass it went to landfill.

It all goes for cullet, mostly to make glassfibre insulation.

Not quite true. The A1M from Wakefield to the A19 was rebuilt using lots of
"recycled" glass. It makes excellent ballast. Significant quantities of
cullet are used as construction materials where it can replace sharp sand.

--
€¢DarWin|
_/ _/