On 16/08/13 13:10, The Other Mike wrote:
On Fri, 16 Aug 2013 07:47:15 +0100, "harryagain"
wrote:

There are almost unsurmountable problems associated with pumpimg very hot
water into steam boilers.
Depends what you mean by very hot. UK coal and nuclear stations have no
problems pumping water at 160 deg C. I'd call that more than a bit hot. Not
steam temperature at the boiler outlet temperatures but still 'very hot'

Especially steam locomotive boilers (or cars for that matter).
Clearly you don't know this.

Clue. Why do you suppose so much heat has to be dumped at thermal power
stations?
It's *nothing* to do with pumping water into boilers.

Exactly.

Its all do with the basic issues of using steam as a working fluid at all.

you can't get it THAT hot, and it has to come out the arse end at
something like 40-50 C.

Better efficiency comes from gas turbines, because the gases are like
1000C and the final steam circuit outflows are like 40-50C.

The amaxim efficiency of a thermal engine is simple.

1 - (outlet-temp/inlet-temp) where both are in degrees absolute.
So for a steam boiler at say 260C inlet to the turbines, and final
condenser at 40C, the numbers come out to

1-(313 /533) i.e. about 41%

Go to a CCGT at 1000C and it all looks different.

1-(313/1273) . i.e. 75%.

That's the maximum theoretical efficiency. In reality it tends to be
about 37% for top steam plant and 60% for a CCGT.

And of course the gas temperature (and effiiency) goes down in a CCGT
when its throttled back to make way for harries solar panels and
windymills, so burning yet more fuel for te same power output


Once condensate leaves the condenser it is heated in multiple stages of feed
heaters before it even gets to the boiler feed pump. The appropriate inlet
pressure, inlet temperature, and dissolved gas concentration are all what are
needed to avoid cavitation in the feed pump.

Exactly.





--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

On 16/08/13 13:56, Nightjar wrote:
On 16/08/2013 13:05, Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
Nightjar wrote:

On 16/08/2013 07:47, harryagain wrote:

If it was satisfacory, they would have left it on

Wrong way around. They add complications and increase maintenance
cost, so are only fitted when they are required. In all the cases you
claim they were removed because they were unsatisfactory, the
locomotives had ceased the duties that needed condensers fitted and
they were removed to make the locomotives simpler to maintain.

You know, reading what harry posts makes me wonder if he is not in fact
14 years old. He has this childish "if it's not white it must be black"
mentality. No shades of grey and just ignore inconvenient facts.

ISTR he claims to be retired, although that would not rule out
regression.

Colin Bignell
he is a professional green troll, or very dim. Or both.


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

On 16 Aug 2013 12:40:56 +0100 (BST), (Alan Braggins)
wrote:

In article , The Other Mike wrote:
Or with diesel at say 1.40 per litre

If I thought diesel was only going to average that for the rest of the
life of my car, I'd be a happy man.

http://www.petrolprices.com/ shows a UK average of 141.7p now, and I bet
it's going to up overall in future.

(Basic point remains unchanged though.)


No one would dispute that petrol and diesel will continue to rise in price, but
the GBP 20395 difference in purchase price between the mind numbingly boring
Mitsubishi i-MiEV and the 'world beating' Dacia Sandero Diesel buys 14500
litres of diesel at GBP 1.40, that is 291 full tanks of diesel, enabling the
Sandero to almost travel the average distance to the moon (900 miles short)

238,000 miles in a Dacia Sandero ought to be enough for anyone

You could just buy the Diesel now if the prospect of price rises is of any
concern. 14500 litres of diesel stored in wheelie bins, IBC's or a dedicated
tank has to be a better long term bet than the prospect of a Mitsubishi i-MiEV
with a buggered battery.


--

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
[about harry]

he is a professional green troll, or very dim. Or both.

The two are not mutually exclusive as witness the moron with a
double-barrelled name on R4 this morning talking utter ******** about
"fracking". He was shot down in mid flight by the prof. who pointed out
that fracking has been happening in the UK for decades with no bad effects.
Also that fracking is an essential process in hot rock geothermal energy
systems.

--
€¢DarWin|
_/ _/

On Fri, 16 Aug 2013 14:30:22 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 16/08/13 13:10, The Other Mike wrote:
On Fri, 16 Aug 2013 07:47:15 +0100, "harryagain"
wrote:

There are almost unsurmountable problems associated with pumpimg very hot
water into steam boilers.
Depends what you mean by very hot. UK coal and nuclear stations have no
problems pumping water at 160 deg C. I'd call that more than a bit hot. Not
steam temperature at the boiler outlet temperatures but still 'very hot'

Especially steam locomotive boilers (or cars for that matter).
Clearly you don't know this.

Clue. Why do you suppose so much heat has to be dumped at thermal power
stations?
It's *nothing* to do with pumping water into boilers.

Exactly.

Its all do with the basic issues of using steam as a working fluid at all.

you can't get it THAT hot, and it has to come out the arse end at
something like 40-50 C.

Better efficiency comes from gas turbines, because the gases are like
1000C and the final steam circuit outflows are like 40-50C.

The amaxim efficiency of a thermal engine is simple.

1 - (outlet-temp/inlet-temp) where both are in degrees absolute.
So for a steam boiler at say 260C inlet to the turbines, and final
condenser at 40C, the numbers come out to

1-(313 /533) i.e. about 41%

Go to a CCGT at 1000C and it all looks different.

1-(313/1273) . i.e. 75%.

That's the maximum theoretical efficiency. In reality it tends to be
about 37% for top steam plant and 60% for a CCGT.

And of course the gas temperature (and effiiency) goes down in a CCGT
when its throttled back to make way for harries solar panels and
windymills, so burning yet more fuel for te same power output


Once condensate leaves the condenser it is heated in multiple stages of feed
heaters before it even gets to the boiler feed pump. The appropriate inlet
pressure, inlet temperature, and dissolved gas concentration are all what are
needed to avoid cavitation in the feed pump.

Exactly.


Your turbine steam inlet figures are way out compared to the standard in the UK

568 deg C / 168 bar is the norm for HP inlet for all 120MW units with final
stage steam temperatures of around 30 deg C.

That makes the ideal Carnot efficiency closer to 64% with as you say 37% being
about the norm for real life.


--

On 16/08/13 18:02, The Other Mike wrote:
On Fri, 16 Aug 2013 14:30:22 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 16/08/13 13:10, The Other Mike wrote:
On Fri, 16 Aug 2013 07:47:15 +0100, "harryagain"
wrote:

There are almost unsurmountable problems associated with pumpimg very hot
water into steam boilers.
Depends what you mean by very hot. UK coal and nuclear stations have no
problems pumping water at 160 deg C. I'd call that more than a bit hot. Not
steam temperature at the boiler outlet temperatures but still 'very hot'

Especially steam locomotive boilers (or cars for that matter).
Clearly you don't know this.

Clue. Why do you suppose so much heat has to be dumped at thermal power
stations?
It's *nothing* to do with pumping water into boilers.
Exactly.

Its all do with the basic issues of using steam as a working fluid at all.

you can't get it THAT hot, and it has to come out the arse end at
something like 40-50 C.

Better efficiency comes from gas turbines, because the gases are like
1000C and the final steam circuit outflows are like 40-50C.

The amaxim efficiency of a thermal engine is simple.

1 - (outlet-temp/inlet-temp) where both are in degrees absolute.
So for a steam boiler at say 260C inlet to the turbines, and final
condenser at 40C, the numbers come out to

1-(313 /533) i.e. about 41%

Go to a CCGT at 1000C and it all looks different.

1-(313/1273) . i.e. 75%.

That's the maximum theoretical efficiency. In reality it tends to be
about 37% for top steam plant and 60% for a CCGT.

And of course the gas temperature (and effiiency) goes down in a CCGT
when its throttled back to make way for harries solar panels and
windymills, so burning yet more fuel for te same power output


Once condensate leaves the condenser it is heated in multiple stages of feed
heaters before it even gets to the boiler feed pump. The appropriate inlet
pressure, inlet temperature, and dissolved gas concentration are all what are
needed to avoid cavitation in the feed pump.

Exactly.

Your turbine steam inlet figures are way out compared to the standard in the UK

568 deg C / 168 bar is the norm for HP inlet for all 120MW units with final
stage steam temperatures of around 30 deg C.

That makes the ideal Carnot efficiency closer to 64% with as you say 37% being
about the norm for real life.


Fairy nuff. I haven't had much to do with steam plant since I
leftcollege :-)

So actually that makes sense. actuall eff is about 80% of carnot.

--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 16/08/2013 07:47, harryagain wrote:

"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 14/08/2013 18:18, harryagain wrote:
"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 14/08/2013 08:00, harryagain wrote:
"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 13/08/2013 17:51, harryagain wrote:
"Andy Burns" wrote in message
o.uk...
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 13/08/13 07:52, Andy Burns wrote:

If the laser generates heat by alpha and beta decay

..and a lot of high energy neutrons IIRC that can transmute
anything
they hit.

article says no neutron decay.

But essentially the mass of waste - esp high level waste so
called -
is
vastly reduced.

especially as each car only starts with 8g of Thorium, amazing to
get
a
200,000 mile 'life' out of it


If it works. Another straw to grasp at.
Drivel.
So what we then get is heat.
So we raise steam and it is actually a steam car?

The steam is used to run a turbine, which is used to generate
electricity,
so it is actually an electric car. Personally, I would prefer it to
be
driven by steam.

Heh, heh. What a load of old ********.
Stop every thirty miles to pick up water?

Only if really badly designed.

BTW, do some research as to why steam locmotives never had
condensers.

Apart from those that were built with condensers you mean?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropo...ailway_A_Class
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_A...Class_25_4-8-4

Colin Bignell

You didn't read that link very thoroughly.
It goes on to say they were converted to free exhaust as the design
was
a
failure...

No it doesn't. It says they were converted when electric and
diesel-electric locomotives made them redundant on the desert routes.

It also says:

'The system proved to be extremely efficient and reduced water
consumption
by as much as 90% by using the same water up to eight times over,
giving
the Class 25 locomotive a range of 800 kilometres (500 miles) between
water refills. In addition, the hot recycled feedwater resulted in a
significantly reduced coal consumption'

Another example wher eit was removed
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GER_Class_G69

And another failure here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNR_Class_L1

Lots of failures..

Again, locomotives that were converted only after they were moved from
their original duties and there was no longer a need for condensing
apparatus.

Colin Bignell


It was taken off because it was never satisfacory.

Time for a mis-quote from Mandy Rice Davies I think.

If it was satisfacory, they would have left it on

Wrong way around. They add complications and increase maintenance cost, so
are only fitted when they are required. In all the cases you claim they
were removed because they were unsatisfactory, the locomotives had ceased
the duties that needed condensers fitted and they were removed to make the
locomotives simpler to maintain.

and further, all steam
locomotives would have been fitted with condensers.

Simpler and cheaper in most cases just to keep topping up where there are
plentiful water supplies.

They could only be made
to work properly in very cold climates.

The South African locomotives worked very efficiently in a desert.

...
There are almost unsurmountable problems associated with pumpimg very hot
water into steam boilers.
Especially steam locomotive boilers (or cars for that matter)....

No there aren't. You just use hot water pumps instead of injectors. Of
course, that adds to the complexity of the system.

Yes there were. I spent forty years running steam boilers.

On 16/08/2013 19:32, harryagain wrote:
"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 16/08/2013 07:47, harryagain wrote:

....
...
There are almost unsurmountable problems associated with pumpimg very hot
water into steam boilers.
Especially steam locomotive boilers (or cars for that matter)....

No there aren't. You just use hot water pumps instead of injectors. Of
course, that adds to the complexity of the system.

Yes there were. I spent forty years running steam boilers.


Obviously, not very well designed ones.

Colin Bignell

"The Other Mike" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 16 Aug 2013 07:47:15 +0100, "harryagain"

wrote:

There are almost unsurmountable problems associated with pumpimg very hot
water into steam boilers.

Depends what you mean by very hot. UK coal and nuclear stations have no
problems pumping water at 160 deg C. I'd call that more than a bit hot.
Not
steam temperature at the boiler outlet temperatures but still 'very hot'

You can pump it at whatever temperature as long as the pressure is
sufficient to prevent cavitation in the pump(s).
And feedwater heaters are downstream of the pump for that very reason.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 16/08/13 13:10, The Other Mike wrote:
On Fri, 16 Aug 2013 07:47:15 +0100, "harryagain"

wrote:

There are almost unsurmountable problems associated with pumpimg very
hot
water into steam boilers.
Depends what you mean by very hot. UK coal and nuclear stations have no
problems pumping water at 160 deg C. I'd call that more than a bit hot.
Not
steam temperature at the boiler outlet temperatures but still 'very hot'

Especially steam locomotive boilers (or cars for that matter).
Clearly you don't know this.

Clue. Why do you suppose so much heat has to be dumped at thermal power
stations?
It's *nothing* to do with pumping water into boilers.

Exactly.

Its all do with the basic issues of using steam as a working fluid at all.

you can't get it THAT hot, and it has to come out the arse end at
something like 40-50 C.

Better efficiency comes from gas turbines, because the gases are like
1000C and the final steam circuit outflows are like 40-50C.

The amaxim efficiency of a thermal engine is simple.

1 - (outlet-temp/inlet-temp) where both are in degrees absolute.
So for a steam boiler at say 260C inlet to the turbines, and final
condenser at 40C, the numbers come out to

1-(313 /533) i.e. about 41%

Go to a CCGT at 1000C and it all looks different.

1-(313/1273) . i.e. 75%.

That's the maximum theoretical efficiency. In reality it tends to be
about 37% for top steam plant and 60% for a CCGT.

And of course the gas temperature (and effiiency) goes down in a CCGT
when its throttled back to make way for harries solar panels and
windymills, so burning yet more fuel for te same power output


Once condensate leaves the condenser it is heated in multiple stages of
feed
heaters before it even gets to the boiler feed pump. The appropriate
inlet
pressure, inlet temperature, and dissolved gas concentration are all what
are
needed to avoid cavitation in the feed pump.

Condensers are in fact working at sub-amospheric pressures.
The energy exchanged here is thrown away. They increase the pressure
differential across the turbine and save condensate.
There is insufficient cooling medium in steam locmotives.

On Fri, 16 Aug 2013 19:37:25 +0100, "harryagain"
wrote:


"The Other Mike" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 16 Aug 2013 07:47:15 +0100, "harryagain"

wrote:

There are almost unsurmountable problems associated with pumpimg very hot
water into steam boilers.

Depends what you mean by very hot. UK coal and nuclear stations have no
problems pumping water at 160 deg C. I'd call that more than a bit hot.
Not
steam temperature at the boiler outlet temperatures but still 'very hot'

You can pump it at whatever temperature as long as the pressure is
sufficient to prevent cavitation in the pump(s).
And feedwater heaters are downstream of the pump for that very reason.

The high pressure feed heaters are, but the low pressure ones are not.


--

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
harryagain wrote:
Fast (DC) chargers have a roadside rectifier and are about 60Kw in size.
Charges my car to 80% in 20min. I think the Leaf needs 30 mins. There is
a different charge socket for this. There are about six pins for
various control link as well as the two big ones.

You have one of these at home? If not, do you use one elsewhere?

No and no. Why would I need one at home anyway?
They shorten battery life.

On 13/08/2013 09:35, tony sayer wrote:
In article , SteveW steve@walker-
family.me.uk scribeth thus
On 11/08/2013 22:01, S Viemeister wrote:
On 8/11/2013 4:39 PM, tony sayer wrote:
In article , SteveW steve@walker-

Indeed. I suffer from urticaria

Bugger that!. I get that sometimes and when it starts its away in just a
few minutes and the itching!! thats like nothing on earth, usually a
half a packet of Piriton nowadays is needed to stop it!.

Sure hate to be stuck in traffic without a pack of them onboard!...


I've found that a diphenhydramine gel or spray, can help make it more
bearable.

Fexofenadine Hydrochloride (Telfast 180mg) in the morning and Cetirizine
in the evening for me.

I wonder if we are having quite the same thing?. The way your referring
this is it seems a daily problem, is that the case?. Mine is only now
and again and rather unpredictable 'tho there are some triggers like
heat and dry white wine and eggs have been implicated;!...

Or a combination of them ...

Plus a cream that I've forgotten the name of at
the moment, when required.

SteveW

Urticaria graphica in my case. For most people it clears up by itself
after 3 months or so. In my case it lasts 3 to 9 months, goes, but then
returns if my immune system is attacked (common cold, etc.). Main
trigger is heat, but only after a virus of some sort. So at the moment,
I had a virus in March and since then the heat keeps setting it off.
It'll go soon.

SteveW

On 12/08/2013 20:47, Nightjar wrote:
On 12/08/2013 16:20, whisky-dave wrote:
...
I know of a couple that drive to cornwall and share the journey.
They just stop, sometimes have a break and swap over.
They can't be the only ones to have thought of this method to dribve
long distances.

Thinking about it is not the same as it being a practical possibility.
My partner has always viewed my vehicles as being impossibly large to
drive and I have to include in my insurance chauffeur recovery of my car
from anywhere in Europe, should I ever become unable to drive it home.

Colin Bignell

My wife can just about be persuaded to drive my Focus (and previously my
Primera), but only with extreme reluctance and constant guidance so a
rest is not an option (she normally drives a Matiz).

My mother on the other hand, with a little push, could even be persuaded
to take over from my dad while he had a sleep - and that was in an
Austin 1800 and towing a Sprite Musketeer!

SteveW

On 11/08/2013 21:55, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sun, 11 Aug 2013 19:47:47 +0100, SteveW wrote:

And your job will no longer be possible in that form.
The only reason you do it is because it's possible.

No, because it is necessary. The work I do is specialised. There will be
a demand for it. There will never be enough qualified and experienced
people living in easy reach of companies specialising in it and site
visits will always be a necessity.

Agreed, like my job. But then I don't think Harry has a television
but the same applies to a fair bit of radio output as well.

There are a few broadcast camera and sound people in the Newcastle
area but no where near enough to crew the test match at
Chester-le-Street. And TBH I doubt many of the local camera operators
have that much cricket experience. It's not easy following the action
at the tight end of a big zoom lens when the angle of view is less
than half the width of your little finger at arms length.

The closest I've got to that is trying to photograph/film drag racing -
at least that's in a nice predictable straight line, but was bloody
useless at trying to keep them in the viewfinder!

In fact for stills I did become quite good at using a tripod, allowing
for the shutter lag and hoping they'd be were I'd predicted when it
actually took!

I probably couldn't do that any more either.

SteveW

On 16/08/13 19:32, harryagain wrote:

Yes there were. I spent forty years running steam boilers.

Harry the ones in chinese laundries are different from the ones in
powerstations.



--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

On 12/08/2013 13:48, Bill Wright wrote:
harryagain wrote:

Quality of life is going to fall,
That's what the environmentalists crave, because they are against
prosperity and progress. And capitalism of course. Years ago we had
various ****-for-brains groups including the CND lot, the Socialist
Workers Party, the hippies, the veggies, etc et bloody cetra. Now
they've found a common umbrella movement, environmentalism. Shooting
would be too good for 'em in my opinion.

too many people about and the era of cheap fossil fuel is almost over..
Only because of greeny pressure. There's 200 years' worth of coal here
in Yorkshire.

Bill

Perfectly simple to synthesize high energy density fuels anyway when
you've got suficient spare power. Just need more nukes.

SteveW

On 16/08/2013 21:20, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 16/08/13 19:32, harryagain wrote:

Yes there were. I spent forty years running steam boilers.

Harry the ones in chinese laundries are different from the ones in
powerstations.




I think he means wallpaper stripper when he says boiler.

On Fri, 16 Aug 2013 21:26:33 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

Yes there were. I spent forty years running steam boilers.

Harry the ones in chinese laundries are different from the ones in
powerstations.

I think he means wallpaper stripper when he says boiler.

I thought he meant the kettle, but...

On 16/08/13 21:57, Adrian wrote:
On Fri, 16 Aug 2013 21:26:33 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

Yes there were. I spent forty years running steam boilers.
Harry the ones in chinese laundries are different from the ones in
powerstations.
I think he means wallpaper stripper when he says boiler.
I thought he meant the kettle, but...
I thought he meant victorian ladies of easy virtue....

--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

On 12/08/2013 23:41, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Bill Wright wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Seems to me some on here can't see beyond the end of their probably
extensive driveway
An extensive driveway suggests wealth, which suggests success.

It probably does to you. No 10 Downing Street, after all, has a very long
driveway.

It doesn't have a driveway at all, at least at the front. It happens to
open onto a road that is not open to the public though.

SteveW

In article ,
harryagain wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article , harryagain
wrote:
Fast (DC) chargers have a roadside rectifier and are about 60Kw in
size. Charges my car to 80% in 20min. I think the Leaf needs 30 mins.
There is a different charge socket for this. There are about six
pins for various control link as well as the two big ones.

You have one of these at home? If not, do you use one elsewhere?

No and no. Why would I need one at home anyway?
They shorten battery life.

Sigh. The only point in mentioning a fast charge system is if you have
access to it when needed. In the same way as you have access to filling
the tank on a petrol car.

And is anything which shortens the life of an already horrendously
expensive battery worth mentioning anyway?

--
*If you don't pay your exorcist you get repossessed.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
SteveW wrote:
An extensive driveway suggests wealth, which suggests success.

It probably does to you. No 10 Downing Street, after all, has a very
long driveway.

It doesn't have a driveway at all, at least at the front.

Think a whoosh is in order.

--
*When a man opens a car door for his wife, it's either a new car or a new

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 13/08/2013 11:15, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Matty F wrote:
I'd just like to make the point that any electric car that does not have
an alternative means of propulsion once the battery is flat, is
particularly stupid and so were the designers. Unless of course it has a
range of many hundreds of miles.

That's a bit extreme. A conventional car can run out of fuel too. And has
no alternative means of propulsion. Other than pushing it.

Simply carrying a can of petrol will do. Even if you've not got one, you
can carry a can from the nearest petrol station or someone can bring you
one. An electric car would still be going nowhere under its own power.

The actual range makes no difference to this either - for some a *genuine*
range of 50 miles might be plenty - others might need a great deal more.

That range of 50 would indeed cover a lot of normal useages, but isn't
much good when you've just got home with an almost flat battery and
unexpectedly need to nip out for something or someone. Again a petrol
car can fill up with minimal delay or even just chance it, knowing that
they've got a spare can in the boot.

SteveW

On 13/08/2013 18:11, harryagain wrote:
"Matty F" wrote in message
...
I'd just like to make the point that any electric car that does not have
an alternative means of propulsion once the battery is flat, is
particularly stupid and so were the designers. Unless of course it has a
range of many hundreds of miles.

I never drive "many hundreds of miles."

I have had a couple of times where I have received a call to say a
relative has died and they are being buried the next morning - on the
West coast of Ireland! Too late to get a flight that night; the first
flight the next morning too late for us to get there. Jump in the car,
drive 2-1/2 hours, catch a ferry, drive 4-1/2 hours and once, get there
with 15 minutes to spare! No way with an electric car.

SteveW

On Fri, 16 Aug 2013 23:30:58 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
harryagain wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article , harryagain
wrote:
Fast (DC) chargers have a roadside rectifier and are about 60Kw in
size. Charges my car to 80% in 20min. I think the Leaf needs 30 mins.
There is a different charge socket for this. There are about six
pins for various control link as well as the two big ones.

You have one of these at home? If not, do you use one elsewhere?

No and no. Why would I need one at home anyway?
They shorten battery life.

Sigh. The only point in mentioning a fast charge system is if you have
access to it when needed. In the same way as you have access to filling
the tank on a petrol car.

And is anything which shortens the life of an already horrendously
expensive battery worth mentioning anyway?

Semtex ?

Large metal spike and a big hammer?


--

On Sat, 17 Aug 2013 00:42:59 +0100, SteveW wrote:

That range of 50 would indeed cover a lot of normal useages

It would _just_ cover me for a return trip to the nearest town of over
2,000 people.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Bill Wright wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

It's quite extraordinary how narrow some people's views are. That if
their car breaks down they have no option but to stay at home and keep
the kids away from school.

That's the actual situation for many in rural areas.

Not denying that. However, what percentage of the population does it apply
to? 1% - or less?

Probably the 10% who can't get a decent broadband connection because they're
in the middle of nowhere.

--
Mike Clarke

Adrian wrote:
On Sat, 17 Aug 2013 00:42:59 +0100, SteveW wrote:

That range of 50 would indeed cover a lot of normal useages

It would _just_ cover me for a return trip to the nearest town of over
2,000 people.

It would get me to work, but not back again.

--
€¢DarWin|
_/ _/

"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 16/08/2013 19:32, harryagain wrote:
"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 16/08/2013 07:47, harryagain wrote:

...
...
There are almost unsurmountable problems associated with pumpimg very
hot
water into steam boilers.
Especially steam locomotive boilers (or cars for that matter)....

No there aren't. You just use hot water pumps instead of injectors. Of
course, that adds to the complexity of the system.

Yes there were. I spent forty years running steam boilers.


Obviously, not very well designed ones.


Perfectly conventional ones.

"SteveW" wrote in message
...
On 13/08/2013 18:11, harryagain wrote:
"Matty F" wrote in message
...
I'd just like to make the point that any electric car that does not have
an alternative means of propulsion once the battery is flat, is
particularly stupid and so were the designers. Unless of course it has a
range of many hundreds of miles.

I never drive "many hundreds of miles."

I have had a couple of times where I have received a call to say a
relative has died and they are being buried the next morning - on the West
coast of Ireland! Too late to get a flight that night; the first flight
the next morning too late for us to get there. Jump in the car, drive
2-1/2 hours, catch a ferry, drive 4-1/2 hours and once, get there with 15
minutes to spare! No way with an electric car.

SteveW

Muslims?
Only muslims bury the next day.
Or they didn't really want your presence.
What's all this pre-occupation with death anyway?

On 18/08/2013 05:48, harryagain wrote:
"SteveW" wrote in message
...
On 13/08/2013 18:11, harryagain wrote:
"Matty F" wrote in message
...
I'd just like to make the point that any electric car that does not have
an alternative means of propulsion once the battery is flat, is
particularly stupid and so were the designers. Unless of course it has a
range of many hundreds of miles.

I never drive "many hundreds of miles."

I have had a couple of times where I have received a call to say a
relative has died and they are being buried the next morning - on the West
coast of Ireland! Too late to get a flight that night; the first flight
the next morning too late for us to get there. Jump in the car, drive
2-1/2 hours, catch a ferry, drive 4-1/2 hours and once, get there with 15
minutes to spare! No way with an electric car.

SteveW

Muslims?
Only muslims bury the next day.
Or they didn't really want your presence.
What's all this pre-occupation with death anyway?


In Jewish custom, burial takes place as soon as possible. That can and
does mean often mean next day - could be same day.

"It is a Biblical commandment to bury one's deceased immediately after
passing, and it is forbidden to leave the deceased unburied overnight
unless it is for his honor (i.e. to perform a proper Tahara, obtain
shrouds, arrange for a burial plot, gather family, etc.)."

http://www.chabad.org/library/articl...Basic-Laws.htm

--
Rod

On 18/08/2013 05:42, harryagain wrote:
"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 16/08/2013 19:32, harryagain wrote:
"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 16/08/2013 07:47, harryagain wrote:

...
...
There are almost unsurmountable problems associated with pumpimg very
hot
water into steam boilers.
Especially steam locomotive boilers (or cars for that matter)....

No there aren't. You just use hot water pumps instead of injectors. Of
course, that adds to the complexity of the system.

Yes there were. I spent forty years running steam boilers.


Obviously, not very well designed ones.


Perfectly conventional ones.


Not necessarily a contradiction.

Colin Bignell

In article , polygonum
wrote:
On 18/08/2013 05:48, harryagain wrote:
"SteveW" wrote in message
...
On 13/08/2013 18:11, harryagain wrote:
"Matty F" wrote in message
...
I'd just like to make the point that any electric car that does not
have an alternative means of propulsion once the battery is flat, is
particularly stupid and so were the designers. Unless of course it
has a range of many hundreds of miles.

I never drive "many hundreds of miles."

I have had a couple of times where I have received a call to say a
relative has died and they are being buried the next morning - on the
West coast of Ireland! Too late to get a flight that night; the first
flight the next morning too late for us to get there. Jump in the car,
drive 2-1/2 hours, catch a ferry, drive 4-1/2 hours and once, get
there with 15 minutes to spare! No way with an electric car.

SteveW

Muslims? Only muslims bury the next day. Or they didn't really want
your presence. What's all this pre-occupation with death anyway?


In Jewish custom, burial takes place as soon as possible. That can and
does mean often mean next day - could be same day.

"It is a Biblical commandment to bury one's deceased immediately after
passing, and it is forbidden to leave the deceased unburied overnight
unless it is for his honor (i.e. to perform a proper Tahara, obtain
shrouds, arrange for a burial plot, gather family, etc.)."

http://www.chabad.org/library/articl...Basic-Laws.htm

This tradition was started by the need to bury a body as soon as possible
in the Middle East were the ambient temperature is high. At the time there
were also no funeral parlours with cool storage facilities. Like many
Jewish and Muslim customs the initial reasons were health & hygene related.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

On 18/08/13 05:42, harryagain wrote:
"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 16/08/2013 19:32, harryagain wrote:
Yes there were. I spent forty years running steam boilers.


Obviously, not very well designed ones.

Perfectly conventional ones.


the two statements are not contradictory.


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

In article , harryagain
wrote:

"SteveW" wrote in message
...


I have had a couple of times where I have received a
call to say a relative has died and they are being
buried the next morning - on the West coast of
Ireland! Too late to get a flight that night; the first
flight the next morning too late for us to get there.
And Knock International has very limited number of
connecting airports

Jump in the car, drive 2-1/2 hours, catch a ferry,
drive 4-1/2 hours and once, get there with 15 minutes
to spare! No way with an electric car.

SteveW

Muslims? Only muslims bury the next day.
Liar. Happens frequently in Ireland
Shows up your ignorance on another topic
Or they didn't really want your presence.


What's all this pre-occupation
with death anyway?



John M

--
John Mulrooney
NOTE Email address IS correct but might not be checked for a while.

The greatest fault is to be conscious of none.

On 18/08/2013 05:48, harryagain wrote:
"SteveW" wrote in message
...
On 13/08/2013 18:11, harryagain wrote:
"Matty F" wrote in message
...
I'd just like to make the point that any electric car that does not have
an alternative means of propulsion once the battery is flat, is
particularly stupid and so were the designers. Unless of course it has a
range of many hundreds of miles.

I never drive "many hundreds of miles."

I have had a couple of times where I have received a call to say a
relative has died and they are being buried the next morning - on the West
coast of Ireland! Too late to get a flight that night; the first flight
the next morning too late for us to get there. Jump in the car, drive
2-1/2 hours, catch a ferry, drive 4-1/2 hours and once, get there with 15
minutes to spare! No way with an electric car.

SteveW

Muslims?
Only muslims bury the next day.
Or they didn't really want your presence.
What's all this pre-occupation with death anyway?

It's also the Christian norm in Ireland. Someone dies in the morning,
there is a service (the Removal) in the evening and they are buried the
next morning. If they die in the afternoon, the Removal is the evening
of the next day, the burial is the day after.

The whole system is set up for it. Priests, undertakers, caterers, etc.
all ready at very short notice. Deaths are announced on the radio - as
announcements in the paper are abviously too slow.

SteveW

On Sun, 18 Aug 2013 22:18:25 +0100 SteveW wrote :
It's also the Christian norm in Ireland. Someone dies in the morning,
there is a service (the Removal) in the evening and they are buried the
next morning. If they die in the afternoon, the Removal is the evening
of the next day, the burial is the day after.

The whole system is set up for it. Priests, undertakers, caterers, etc.
all ready at very short notice. Deaths are announced on the radio - as
announcements in the paper are abviously too slow.

I'm not sure about it needing to be quite so quick but couldn't help
notice that the last few UK funerals I've been to have often been two
weeks after the death. I know the undertakers now have fridges and embalm
but it seems uncomfortably long. My father died on a Sunday and the
funeral was the following Friday which seems about right to me.

--
Tony Bryer, Greentram: 'Software to build on',
Melbourne, Australia www.greentram.com

On 16/08/2013 07:56, harryagain wrote:
You are correct.
The main loss is drag which varies as the square of speed.
So twice as fast = four times the power needed.

Good facts misunderstood.

Twice as fast = 4 times the drag = 8 times the power.

Andy

On 18/08/2013 18:30, JTM wrote:
In article , harryagain
wrote:

"SteveW" wrote in message
...


I have had a couple of times where I have received a
call to say a relative has died and they are being
buried the next morning - on the West coast of
Ireland! Too late to get a flight that night; the first
flight the next morning too late for us to get there.
And Knock International has very limited number of
connecting airports

Very little hope there. We'd have flown to Belfast or Dublin and hired a
car if we could.

SteveW