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#1
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More on electric cars.
Drove an electric car today.
Uncanny experience but good. http://www.mitsubishi-cars.co.uk/imiev/technology.aspx |
#2
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More on electric cars.
On 07/09/12 18:40, harryagain wrote:
Drove an electric car today. Uncanny experience but good. http://www.mitsubishi-cars.co.uk/imiev/technology.aspx .... and the batteries last how long and cost what to replace? Andy C |
#3
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More on electric cars.
On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 18:40:59 +0100, "harryagain"
wrote: Drove an electric car today. Twice? Recharged it, did you? |
#4
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More on electric cars.
In article , Andy Cap
scribeth thus On 07/09/12 18:40, harryagain wrote: Drove an electric car today. Uncanny experience but good. http://www.mitsubishi-cars.co.uk/imiev/technology.aspx ... and the batteries last how long and cost what to replace? Andy C Well it sez a 93 mile range which I suppose would suit me a lot of the time but anything else its just that if I say decide or have to go to London then I must know were there is a charging point or for any other long journey. Its a nice idea especially the transmission but until we get that ideal liquid powered fuel pack it'll have it wait. Just also thinking here it'd be fine for home charging but there are a lot of places where when you park it on the street even tho your home is nearby, still no charging at home for you and then you'd need to rely on charging elsewhere if you can find a point and don't mind waiting.. Problem is there still not practical for most drivers.... -- Tony Sayer |
#5
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More on electric cars.
On 07/09/2012 18:40, harryagain wrote:
Drove an electric car today. Uncanny experience but good. http://www.mitsubishi-cars.co.uk/imiev/technology.aspx seems to have affected your memory! -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#6
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More on electric cars.
On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 21:30:56 +0100, tony sayer wrote:
Well it sez a 93 mile range which I suppose would suit me a lot of the time ... My round trip working tommorow will be 110 miles. Monday's is around 240. ...if I say decide or have to go to London then I must know were there is a charging point ... I'd need to know where there are 4 if not 5 fast charging points along the route, on the basis that the fast charge only gets to 80% in 30 mins.. Problem is there still not practical for most drivers.... Yep, barely enough range to do the weekly shop. I can think of several cars I'd much rather have for the £28 grand they want for that. -- Cheers Dave. |
#7
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More on electric cars.
tony sayer wrote:
In article , Andy Cap scribeth thus On 07/09/12 18:40, harryagain wrote: Drove an electric car today. Uncanny experience but good. http://www.mitsubishi-cars.co.uk/imiev/technology.aspx ... and the batteries last how long and cost what to replace? Andy C Well it sez a 93 mile range which I suppose would suit me a lot of the time but anything else its just that if I say decide or have to go to London then I must know were there is a charging point or for any other long journey. Its a nice idea especially the transmission but until we get that ideal liquid powered fuel pack it'll have it wait. Just also thinking here it'd be fine for home charging but there are a lot of places where when you park it on the street even tho your home is nearby, still no charging at home for you and then you'd need to rely on charging elsewhere if you can find a point and don't mind waiting.. Problem is there still not practical for most drivers.... Not as a first car, not as a cheap second car either. -- Ineptocracy (in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers. |
#8
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More on electric cars.
In article ,
tony sayer wrote: ell it sez a 93 mile range which I suppose would suit me a lot of the time but anything else its just that if I say decide or have to go to London then I must know were there is a charging point or for any other long journey. The quoted range and performance of electric cars appear to be quoted as if from different vehicles. It may well have a calculated range of 93 miles - but not under normal UK traffic conditions. -- *When blondes have more fun, do they know it? Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#9
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More on electric cars.
harryagain wrote:
Drove an electric car today. How many yards would it get on the average daily output of your solar panels? |
#11
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More on electric cars.
On 08/09/12 05:29, Brian Gaff wrote:
I think battery life in this case meant when do they start to lose their range and or generally deteriorate so they need replacing. Brian Yes, that was what I meant. I guess servicing would be quite a bit less, so it would be difficult to get a fair comparison. If it's anything like boilers though, where price, reduced life and higher maintenance costs negate any savings, it's just another con job. Andy C |
#12
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More on electric cars.
On Sep 7, 6:45*pm, Andy Cap wrote:
On 07/09/12 18:40, harryagain wrote: Drove an electric car today. Uncanny experience but good. http://www.mitsubishi-cars.co.uk/imiev/technology.aspx ... and the batteries last how long and cost what to replace? Andy C Range is 83 miles. Batteries guaranteed for 5-10 years (Dependingon how you treat them.). Replacement cost around £4,000 |
#13
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More on electric cars.
On Sep 8, 2:56*am, Andy Burns wrote:
harryagain wrote: Drove an electric car today. How many yards would it get on the average daily output of your solar panels? On a good (sunny) day I could recharge it in one day from "empty". The battery is 16Kwh. The annual PV production last year was 4000Kwh, It uses average 135wh/Km. You aren't good at arithmetic are you? |
#14
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More on electric cars.
On Sep 8, 5:29*am, "Brian Gaff" wrote:
I think battery life in this case meant when do they start to lose their range and or generally deteriorate so they need replacing. Brian -- Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email. *graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them Email: __________________________________________________ _________________________*________________________ ___________ "tony sayer" wrote in message ... In article , Andy Cap scribeth thus On 07/09/12 18:40, harryagain wrote: Drove an electric car today. Uncanny experience but good. http://www.mitsubishi-cars.co.uk/imiev/technology.aspx ... and the batteries last how long and cost what to replace? Andy C Well it sez a 93 mile range which I suppose would suit me a lot of the time but anything else its just that if I say decide or have to go to London then I must know were there is a charging point or for any other long journey. Its a nice idea especially *the transmission but until we get that ideal liquid powered fuel pack it'll have it wait. Just also thinking here it'd be fine for home charging but there are a lot of places where when you park it on the street even tho your home is nearby, still no charging at home for you and then you'd need to rely on charging elsewhere if you can find a point and don't mind waiting.. Problem is there still not practical for most drivers.... -- Tony Sayer- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Battery life depends on how you treat it. |
#15
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More on electric cars.
harry wrote:
On Sep 7, 6:45 pm, Andy Cap wrote: On 07/09/12 18:40, harryagain wrote: Drove an electric car today. Uncanny experience but good. http://www.mitsubishi-cars.co.uk/imiev/technology.aspx ... and the batteries last how long and cost what to replace? Andy C Range is 83 miles. Batteries guaranteed for 5-10 years (Dependingon how you treat them.). Replacement cost around £4,000 And then harry also wrote: On a good (sunny) day I could recharge it in one day from "empty". The battery is 16Kwh. The annual PV production last year was 4000Kwh, It uses average 135wh/Km. Which is ~74 miles, not 83 miles And then harry said You aren't good at arithmetic are you? And I fell about laughing. -- Ineptocracy (in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers. |
#16
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More on electric cars.
On Sep 8, 7:51*am, The Natural Philosopher
wrote: harry wrote: On Sep 7, 6:45 pm, Andy Cap wrote: On 07/09/12 18:40, harryagain wrote: Drove an electric car today. Uncanny experience but good. http://www.mitsubishi-cars.co.uk/imiev/technology.aspx ... and the batteries last how long and cost what to replace? Andy C Range is 83 miles. Batteries guaranteed for 5-10 years (Dependingon how you treat them.). Replacement cost around £4,000 And then harry also wrote: *On a good (sunny) day I could recharge it in one day from "empty". The *battery is 16Kwh. *The annual PV production last year was 4000Kwh, *It uses average 135wh/Km. Which is ~74 miles, not 83 miles And then harry said *You aren't good at arithmetic are you? And I fell about laughing. -- Ineptocracy (in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers. Don't you know the meaning of average? The figure is dependant on terrain, the way it is driven, AC on/off, lights etc.. Try to keep up. |
#17
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More on electric cars.
In article
..com, harry scribeth thus On Sep 7, 6:45*pm, Andy Cap wrote: On 07/09/12 18:40, harryagain wrote: Drove an electric car today. Uncanny experience but good. http://www.mitsubishi-cars.co.uk/imiev/technology.aspx ... and the batteries last how long and cost what to replace? Andy C Range is 83 miles. Batteries guaranteed for 5-10 years (Dependingon how you treat them.). Replacement cost around £4,000 Well it does say range 93 miles, but how expensive is that to run compared to petrol?.. It gives a consumption figure that looks like miles per watt hour which doesn't seem right?.. Mind you if thats 28 K to buy then thats all rather academic.. -- Tony Sayer |
#18
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More on electric cars.
In article
, harry wrote: ... and the batteries last how long and cost what to replace? Andy C Range is 83 miles. Batteries guaranteed for 5-10 years (Dependingon how you treat them.). Replacement cost around £4,000 Treat them? Leave it in the garage on charge but never driven to get the 10 year warranty? And is the warranty free replacement or a proportional cost according to age? Tesla, for example, won't do a warranty replacement if the car is unused and not on charge for a few weeks - like say left at an airport carpark while on holiday. -- *A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well* Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#19
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More on electric cars.
harry wrote:
Batteries guaranteed for 5-10 years (Depending on how you treat them.) So how do they phrase that? |
#20
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More on electric cars.
In article ,
AJH wrote: On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 21:30:56 +0100, tony sayer wrote: Well it sez a 93 mile range ...but the american site reduces this to 62 on average Yes - the US tends not to like outright lies in advertising. Bit like the original Pious claiming 65 mpg as an average. When Autocar tested it by driving it round a mixture of suburban London roads, they got 38 mpg. Worse than a diesel BMW of the same size which has much better performance. Toyota were forced to change this claim in the US - but not in the UK. -- *He who laughs last has just realised the joke. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#21
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More on electric cars.
harry wrote:
On Sep 8, 7:51 am, The Natural Philosopher wrote: harry wrote: On Sep 7, 6:45 pm, Andy Cap wrote: On 07/09/12 18:40, harryagain wrote: Drove an electric car today. Uncanny experience but good. http://www.mitsubishi-cars.co.uk/imiev/technology.aspx ... and the batteries last how long and cost what to replace? Andy C Range is 83 miles. Batteries guaranteed for 5-10 years (Dependingon how you treat them.). Replacement cost around £4,000 And then harry also wrote: On a good (sunny) day I could recharge it in one day from "empty". The battery is 16Kwh. The annual PV production last year was 4000Kwh, It uses average 135wh/Km. Which is ~74 miles, not 83 miles And then harry said You aren't good at arithmetic are you? And I fell about laughing. -- Ineptocracy (in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers. Don't you know the meaning of average? The figure is dependant on terrain, the way it is driven, AC on/off, lights etc.. Try to keep up. A quick reverse ferret and double weasel! -- Ineptocracy (in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers. |
#22
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More on electric cars.
tony sayer wrote:
In article .com, harry scribeth thus On Sep 7, 6:45 pm, Andy Cap wrote: On 07/09/12 18:40, harryagain wrote: Drove an electric car today. Uncanny experience but good. http://www.mitsubishi-cars.co.uk/imiev/technology.aspx ... and the batteries last how long and cost what to replace? Andy C Range is 83 miles. Batteries guaranteed for 5-10 years (Dependingon how you treat them.). Replacement cost around £4,000 Well it does say range 93 miles, but how expensive is that to run compared to petrol?.. It gives a consumption figure that looks like miles per watt hour which doesn't seem right?.. Mind you if thats 28 K to buy then thats all rather academic.. TCO is still very poor on electric. -- Ineptocracy (in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers. |
#23
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More on electric cars.
AJH wrote:
On Sat, 8 Sep 2012 08:34:46 +0100, tony sayer wrote: It gives a consumption figure that looks like miles per watt hour which doesn't seem right?.. Yes they seem to have that the wrong way around but 84Whr/mile is impressive, given a litre of fuel has about 45kWhr/impgallon and allowing about 30% thermal conversion to the wheels that would be in the region of 300Whr/mile. Mind you if thats 28 K to buy then thats all rather academic.. Especially as I haven't bought a new car since 1971, what does an equivalent small car cost? £8K upwards. And it won't need £4K worth of replacement batteries every few years. And it will do over 200 miles without having to stop for the night. -- Tciao for Now! John. |
#24
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More on electric cars.
In article ,
John Williamson wrote: AJH wrote: On Sat, 8 Sep 2012 08:34:46 +0100, tony sayer wrote: It gives a consumption figure that looks like miles per watt hour which doesn't seem right?.. Yes they seem to have that the wrong way around but 84Whr/mile is impressive, given a litre of fuel has about 45kWhr/impgallon and allowing about 30% thermal conversion to the wheels that would be in the region of 300Whr/mile. Mind you if thats 28 K to buy then thats all rather academic.. Especially as I haven't bought a new car since 1971, what does an equivalent small car cost? £8K upwards. And it won't need £4K worth of replacement batteries every few years. And it will do over 200 miles without having to stop for the night. Other thing is anyone who finds an electric car practical will by nature do a lowish annual mileage. Which means the fuel cost may not be the biggest part of overall new car ownership. -- *Born free...Taxed to death. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#25
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More on electric cars.
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , John Williamson wrote: AJH wrote: On Sat, 8 Sep 2012 08:34:46 +0100, tony sayer wrote: It gives a consumption figure that looks like miles per watt hour which doesn't seem right?.. Yes they seem to have that the wrong way around but 84Whr/mile is impressive, given a litre of fuel has about 45kWhr/impgallon and allowing about 30% thermal conversion to the wheels that would be in the region of 300Whr/mile. Mind you if thats 28 K to buy then thats all rather academic.. Especially as I haven't bought a new car since 1971, what does an equivalent small car cost? £8K upwards. And it won't need £4K worth of replacement batteries every few years. And it will do over 200 miles without having to stop for the night. Other thing is anyone who finds an electric car practical will by nature do a lowish annual mileage. Which means the fuel cost may not be the biggest part of overall new car ownership. Agreed, though they're pushing the mew ones as being capable of fast long distance travel, aided by charging points at motorway services. I could go from Stoke to London in a day now by electric car, pausing en route for large meals at Hopwood Park and Warwick services while the car's batteries got topped up on the way. There may be other charging points on the way, but they're the only ones I've noticed while walking from the coach park into the service areas. Then again, £20,000 only buys about 150,000 miles worth of petrol in a car that size at motorway speed. -- Tciao for Now! John. |
#26
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More on electric cars.
On Sat, 08 Sep 2012 09:44:21 +0100, AJH
wrote: On Sat, 8 Sep 2012 08:34:46 +0100, tony sayer wrote: It gives a consumption figure that looks like miles per watt hour which doesn't seem right?.. Yes they seem to have that the wrong way around but 84Whr/mile is impressive, given a litre of fuel has about 45kWhr/impgallon and allowing about 30% thermal conversion to the wheels that would be in the region of 300Whr/mile. Which is inconsistent with the claim of a 16kWhr battery and a range of 93 miles. That's 172Whr/mile, or 193Whr/mile if you use the more credible 83 mile range. My diesel (which is a larger and more practical car with a range of well over 800 miles) uses about 670Whr/mile at your 45kWhr/gallon, before taking account inefficiencies. If you add in all the electrical plant and transmission losses for the electric car the raw energy consumption works out about the samer. |
#27
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More on electric cars.
In article ,
John Williamson wrote: Agreed, though they're pushing the mew ones as being capable of fast long distance travel, aided by charging points at motorway services. I could go from Stoke to London in a day now by electric car, pausing en route for large meals at Hopwood Park and Warwick services while the car's batteries got topped up on the way. I expect to do London to Aberdeen in a lot less than a day. Including one stop for refreshments. If it really takes a day to go by car from Stoke to London, I'd use the coach. ;-) -- *Hang in there, retirement is only thirty years away! * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#28
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More on electric cars.
In article ,
AJH wrote: £8K upwards. And it won't need £4K worth of replacement batteries every few years. And it will do over 200 miles without having to stop for the night. So what is the total cost of ownership of a typical small new car? My wife's has averaged 4400 miles per year from new and she seldom travels more than 20 miles in a day, if she did she could take another car. On the surface she is an ideal candidate for an electric vehicle. Depends how you work things out. With low mileage, the cost of the fuel becomes less important than other running costs like depreciation and routine replacements, etc. Assuming her car averages about 35 mpg - which should be perfectly possible with a good design, the petrol/diesel cost per year is well under 1000 quid. If the batteries last 5 years and cost 4000 - work it out. -- *If all is not lost, where the hell is it? Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#29
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More on electric cars.
On Sat, 08 Sep 2012 11:06:05 +0100, AJH
wrote: e.g. if the battery is maintained charged and not used (only self discharge being an issue) how long a life? Around four years seems to be what you can expect under those circumstances. There are improvements going on all the time with lithium chemistry, but shelf life seems to be fairly static. Iow, if I'm offered a brand new battery pack that's four years old and never been used, I'd want it for nothing so I can see if it's any good. There's no way I'd pay anything for it until I can see exactly how it's fared in storage. I've been messing around for the past couple of years with leccy bikes and garnered some knowledge of battery packs, but the people who could really answer your question are on www.endless-sphere.com |
#30
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More on electric cars.
On Fri, 07 Sep 2012 23:26:12 -0700, harry wrote:
Battery life depends on how you treat it. Take it out for dinner once in a while. |
#31
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More on electric cars.
tony sayer wrote:
Well it sez a 93 mile range which I suppose would suit me a lot of the time It would if that wasn't a ludicrously optimistic estimate. If you get 2/3rds of that you'll be lucky. |
#32
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More on electric cars.
AJH wrote:
On Sat, 08 Sep 2012 17:17:18 +0100, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote: Around four years seems to be what you can expect under those circumstances. There are improvements going on all the time with lithium chemistry, but shelf life seems to be fairly static. Lithium must be worse than lead acid then, my Landrover still has the battery it came out of the MOD auction with in ~1995 and still starts plus it had regular use up till 4 years ago. it can be worse yes. AJH -- Ineptocracy (in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers. |
#33
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More on electric cars.
AJH wrote:
On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 21:30:56 +0100, tony sayer wrote: Well it sez a 93 mile range ...but the american site reduces this to 62 on average AJH Smaller gallons you see. ;-) Tim |
#34
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More on electric cars.
On Sat, 08 Sep 2012 20:17:14 +0100, Tim+
wrote: AJH wrote: On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 21:30:56 +0100, tony sayer wrote: Well it sez a 93 mile range ...but the american site reduces this to 62 on average AJH Smaller gallons you see. ;-) Tim And longer miles. By something like an eighth of an inch. -- Rod |
#35
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More on electric cars.
On Sat, 08 Sep 2012 19:27:39 +0100, AJH
wrote: Lithium must be worse than lead acid then, my Landrover still has the battery it came out of the MOD auction with in ~1995 and still starts plus it had regular use up till 4 years ago. And if someone offered you an unused (and I don't mean dry-charged) LA battery that was four years old would you pay any money for it? I wouldn't. |
#36
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More on electric cars.
In article ,
Grimly Curmudgeon wrote: And if someone offered you an unused (and I don't mean dry-charged) LA battery that was four years old would you pay any money for it? I wouldn't. If it had not been allowed to go flat at any point, I'd buy it - at the right price. Obviously not full price since that would be pointless. -- *I didn't drive my husband crazy -- I flew him there -- it was faster Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#37
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More on electric cars.
On Sun, 09 Sep 2012 00:06:44 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote: In article , Grimly Curmudgeon wrote: And if someone offered you an unused (and I don't mean dry-charged) LA battery that was four years old would you pay any money for it? I wouldn't. If it had not been allowed to go flat at any point, I'd buy it - at the right price. Obviously not full price since that would be pointless. I would pay nothing and only pay something once it'd been proven under load for a while. Even then I'd only pay a fiver. |
#38
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More on electric cars.
On Sep 8, 8:37*am, tony sayer wrote:
In article .com, harry scribeth thus On Sep 7, 6:45*pm, Andy Cap wrote: On 07/09/12 18:40, harryagain wrote: Drove an electric car today. Uncanny experience but good. http://www.mitsubishi-cars.co.uk/imiev/technology.aspx ... and the batteries last how long and cost what to replace? Andy C Range is 83 miles. Batteries guaranteed for 5-10 years (Dependingon how you treat them.). Replacement cost around £4,000 Well it does say range 93 miles, but how expensive is that to run compared to petrol?.. It gives a consumption figure that looks like miles per watt hour which doesn't seem right?.. Mind you if thats 28 K to buy then thats all rather academic.. -- Tony Sayer A lot of the energy expended (potential, kinetic) is recovered by regeneration. Only frictional losses can't be recovered. |
#39
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More on electric cars.
On Sep 8, 10:02*am, Andy Burns wrote:
harry wrote: Batteries guaranteed for 5-10 years (Depending on how you treat them.) So how do they phrase that? Should have said battery life. |
#40
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On Sep 8, 11:06*am, AJH wrote:
On Sat, 08 Sep 2012 10:22:05 +0100, John Williamson wrote: £8K upwards. And it won't need £4K worth of replacement batteries every few years. And it will do over 200 miles without having to stop for the night. So what is the total cost of ownership of a typical small new car? My wife's has averaged 4400 miles per year from new and she seldom travels more than 20 miles in a day, if she did she could take another car. On the surface she is an ideal candidate for an electric vehicle. A lesser quadracycle is not acceptable and what about cabin heat in the winter? This battery life is interesting, I thought it was a function of charge-discharge cycles AND time but I've never seen it stated as a simple equation. e.g. if the battery is maintained charged and not used (only self discharge being an issue) how long a life? As oppose to being through a charge cycle and then 25% of useable capacity used daily? I imagine, leaving out any rate of return on investment, that this will depreciate 30% in the first year, say GBP9k, amortisation of battery, say GBP800, electricity on their figures and my wife's mileage is only about GBP55. Assuming tax and insurance costs are the same (no tax on electric or small cars?) that gives me a fixed cost of GBP2.20/mile and running cost of about 1.5p/mile for the Miev. AJH A lot depends on where the price of petrol goes in the next few years. |
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