Renault are starting to really push their Zoe electric car. It's an amusing
price, but massively subsidised by European governments (ie by you, me and
every other taxpayer).

Renault advertise it as 130 mile range but in the small print is detail
that the real world range is closer to 60 miles. But the interesting detail
is that you have to rent the battery. That will cost the driver £80 a month
for 7500 miles a year.

So that's 13p/mile just for the battery.
And my wife's boring old petrol car costs.... 13p/mile in petrol.

I'm struggling to see what makes the electric car a good idea.

--
€¢DarWin|
_/ _/

On 09/08/2013 15:25, Steve Firth wrote:
Renault are starting to really push their Zoe electric car. It's an
amusing price, but massively subsidised by European governments (ie
by you, me and every other taxpayer).

Renault advertise it as 130 mile range but in the small print is
detail that the real world range is closer to 60 miles. But the
interesting detail is that you have to rent the battery. That will
cost the driver £80 a month for 7500 miles a year.

So that's 13p/mile just for the battery. And my wife's boring old
petrol car costs.... 13p/mile in petrol.


So the battery charging costs are on top?

Fredxx wrote:
On 09/08/2013 15:25, Steve Firth wrote:
Renault are starting to really push their Zoe electric car. It's an
amusing price, but massively subsidised by European governments (ie
by you, me and every other taxpayer).

Renault advertise it as 130 mile range but in the small print is
detail that the real world range is closer to 60 miles. But the
interesting detail is that you have to rent the battery. That will
cost the driver £80 a month for 7500 miles a year.

So that's 13p/mile just for the battery. And my wife's boring old
petrol car costs.... 13p/mile in petrol.


So the battery charging costs are on top?

Yes, but probably not going to be a lot. Car tax is zero so there's a small
saving there.

Inability to visit the ageing parents without an overnight rest stop would
kill it for me.

--
€¢DarWin|
_/ _/

On Fri, 9 Aug 2013 15:46:35 +0000 (UTC), Steve Firth wrote:

... the interesting detail is that you have to rent the battery.
That
will cost the driver £80 a month for 7500 miles a year.

So that's 13p/mile just for the battery. And my wife's boring old
petrol car costs.... 13p/mile in petrol.

My diesel guzzler only costs 19p/mile in diesel.

So the battery charging costs are on top?

Yes, but probably not going to be a lot.

Well say a 30 kWHr battery and M-F wage slave and a trip out at the
weekend 6 charges a week: 6 x 30 = 180 kWHrs @ 10p = £18/week, approx
£75/month. Hum around 26p/mile.... Even charging every other day is
about the same as my diesel guzzler. B-)

Inability to visit the ageing parents without an overnight rest stop
would kill it for me.

With a 60 mile real world range the inablty to do the weekly shop
would kill it for me.

--
Cheers
Dave.

In article o.uk,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
With a 60 mile real world range the inablty to do the weekly shop
would kill it for me.


Quite. It would have been fine for my usual commute in London, though. But
not with those overall costs for what would have to be a second car for
town only use.

--
*Why isn't there mouse-flavoured cat food?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

So the battery charging costs are on top?

Remarkably (although I'm sure things will soon change), it only costs £10/year membership to use the London EV on-street/public charging network - with no additional charge for electricity:

https://www.sourcelondon.net/membership

Even so, the main problem seems to be that EV's are most use if you live in the inner city - where you're least likely to be able to park in your own driveway to charge-up.

(I wonder if anyone's collecting up car-full's of free electricity, taking it home, and dumping it into their feed-in tariff?).

As your pricing example points out, EV's are *nearly* there, and the Renault pricing deal will be enough to bring-in more early adopters.

I've also heard plans for retrofit conversions to existing street lighting for add-on charging points. I suspect roll-out of public charge points will soon become the choke-point for inner-city adoption.

" :
As your pricing example points out, EV's are *nearly* there, and the
Renault pricing deal will be enough to bring-in more early adopters.

Nearly there? I don't think so.

--
Mike Barnes

On 09/08/13 16:49, wrote:
(I wonder if anyone's collecting up car-full's of free electricity, taking it home, and dumping it into their feed-in tariff?).
harry?


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 09/08/13 16:49, wrote:
(I wonder if anyone's collecting up car-full's of free electricity,
taking it home, and dumping it into their feed-in tariff?).
harry?

And use some of it to get home?
Not worth the effort.

On Friday, 9 August 2013 16:59:13 UTC+1, Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,

" wrote:



As your pricing example points out, EV's are *nearly* there, and the Renault

pricing deal will be enough to bring-in more early adopters.



Not with a ****y 130 mile range they aren't; I get a 600 mile range with

a dizzle C4.

It isn't all about price and specification for early adopters of new technology (or for that matter for a large proportion of car-buyers generally).

I suspect Renault will get sufficient volume of sales now, with their "rent a battery" deal, to get governments to support a wider roll-out of subsidy deals, public charging infrastructure etc.

The beneficiaries are likely to be well-heeled 2nd car owners that have a well-defined niche for that vehicle (in fact rather like the car scrappage scheme of a few years ago).

On 09/08/2013 17:23, wrote:
On Friday, 9 August 2013 16:59:13 UTC+1, Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,

" wrote:



As your pricing example points out, EV's are *nearly* there, and the Renault

pricing deal will be enough to bring-in more early adopters.



Not with a ****y 130 mile range they aren't; I get a 600 mile range with

a dizzle C4.

It isn't all about price and specification for early adopters of new technology (or for that matter for a large proportion of car-buyers generally).

I suspect Renault will get sufficient volume of sales now, with their "rent a battery" deal, to get governments to support a wider roll-out of subsidy deals, public charging infrastructure etc.

The beneficiaries are likely to be well-heeled 2nd car owners that have a well-defined niche for that vehicle (in fact rather like the car scrappage scheme of a few years ago).


Quite. Plus a (possibly misplaced) concern about environmental issues.
That's a cost that has a price some are willing to pay.

--
Cheers, Rob

In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
As your pricing example points out, EV's are *nearly* there, and the
Renault pricing deal will be enough to bring-in more early adopters.

Not with a ****y 130 mile range they aren't; I get a 600 mile range with
a dizzle C4.


I doubt many people actually need a 600 mile range. Few would drive that
distance without stopping - especially in the UK.

--
*Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 09/08/2013 19:40, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
As your pricing example points out, EV's are *nearly* there, and the
Renault pricing deal will be enough to bring-in more early adopters.

Not with a ****y 130 mile range they aren't; I get a 600 mile range with
a dizzle C4.


I doubt many people actually need a 600 mile range. Few would drive that
distance without stopping - especially in the UK.


I bought the long range tank for my car specifically to give me a better
range than that for when I go touring in Europe. I won't do it non-stop,
but I also don't have to buy fuel at motorway prices.

Colin Bignell

Nightjar wrote:
On 09/08/2013 19:40, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
As your pricing example points out, EV's are *nearly* there, and the
Renault pricing deal will be enough to bring-in more early adopters.

Not with a ****y 130 mile range they aren't; I get a 600 mile range with
a dizzle C4.


I doubt many people actually need a 600 mile range. Few would drive that
distance without stopping - especially in the UK.


I bought the long range tank for my car specifically to give me a better
range than that for when I go touring in Europe. I won't do it non-stop,
but I also don't have to buy fuel at motorway prices.

Also on those sorts of drives fuel stops are a significant drag consuming
as much as a half hour every few hundred miles. With a long range tank it's
possible to get much further with less stress. And of course there's "fill
up in Luxembourg" syndrome. A fill there with a large tank can save "quite
a bit" of money.


--
€¢DarWin|
_/ _/

In article ,
Nightjar wrote:
I doubt many people actually need a 600 mile range. Few would drive that
distance without stopping - especially in the UK.


I bought the long range tank for my car specifically to give me a better
range than that for when I go touring in Europe. I won't do it non-stop,
but I also don't have to buy fuel at motorway prices.

Where do you stop for the night? Not on a motorway, surely? So buy your
fuel there?

--
*No hand signals. Driver on Viagra*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
As your pricing example points out, EV's are *nearly* there, and the
Renault pricing deal will be enough to bring-in more early adopters.

Not with a ****y 130 mile range they aren't; I get a 600 mile range with
a dizzle C4.


I doubt many people actually need a 600 mile range. Few would drive that
distance without stopping - especially in the UK.


without stopping no, but I reglarly drive to Central Scotland ina day -
that's around 430 miles. If I had to recharge a battery at my stops, the
journey would not get done in a day thus involving an overnight stay. If I
went on to Inverness - which I have done once, then the 600 mile range is
relevant.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

In article ,
charles wrote:
I doubt many people actually need a 600 mile range. Few would drive
that distance without stopping - especially in the UK.


without stopping no, but I reglarly drive to Central Scotland ina day -
that's around 430 miles.

I do Aberdeen from London. Some 540 miles using M40 M6. My car will - just
about do it on one tank. However, since I stop for a meal on the way it's
no big deal to fill up.

If I had to recharge a battery at my stops,
the journey would not get done in a day thus involving an overnight
stay.

Oh indeed. I doubt any pure electric car will ever have the range of a
petrol one - if relying on some form of storage of electricity.

If I went on to Inverness - which I have done once, then the 600
mile range is relevant.

Wonder how many filling stations you pass on your route? ;-)

--
*I don't have a license to kill, but I do have a learner's permit.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
As your pricing example points out, EV's are *nearly* there, and the
Renault pricing deal will be enough to bring-in more early adopters.

Not with a ****y 130 mile range they aren't; I get a 600 mile range with
a dizzle C4.


I doubt many people actually need a 600 mile range. Few would drive that
distance without stopping - especially in the UK.

South coast to The North West and back will see a driver getting close to
Six hundred miles. Easy to do in a diesel Mondeo and a fairly typical drive
for an engineer or sales rep. They wouldn't want to have to wait overnight
for a "fill".

--
€¢DarWin|
_/ _/

In article
,
Steve Firth wrote:
I doubt many people actually need a 600 mile range. Few would drive
that distance without stopping - especially in the UK.

South coast to The North West and back will see a driver getting close
to Six hundred miles. Easy to do in a diesel Mondeo and a fairly typical
drive for an engineer or sales rep.

In one day? If you average 60 mph - difficult to do - that's driving for
10 hours. Doesn't leave much time for actual work.

They wouldn't want to have to wait overnight for a "fill".

It only takes a few minutes to fill a diesel Mondeo. Last time I tried. Or
am I missing something?

I doubt many drive more than 300 miles or so in the UK without a break.
And a rep won't be searching for the cheapest fuel.

--
*A journey of a thousand sites begins with a single click *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article , Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
As your pricing example points out, EV's are *nearly* there, and the
Renault pricing deal will be enough to bring-in more early adopters.

Not with a ****y 130 mile range they aren't; I get a 600 mile range with
a dizzle C4.

I doubt many people actually need a 600 mile range. Few would drive that
distance without stopping - especially in the UK.

Many people occasionally want a long range without stopping for hours
to recharge an electric car (much faster charges are possible, but
suitable charging points aren't common).

On the other hand many families have more than one car, and only need one
of them to have a long range.

In article ,
Alan Braggins wrote:
I doubt many people actually need a 600 mile range. Few would drive that
distance without stopping - especially in the UK.

Many people occasionally want a long range without stopping for hours
to recharge an electric car (much faster charges are possible, but
suitable charging points aren't common).

No electric car has a range anywhere near 600 miles on one charge. I was
referring to a conventional car. And again that in the UK I doubt many
drive 600 miles - or anywhere near it - without a stop.

On the other hand many families have more than one car, and only need one
of them to have a long range.

--
*Nostalgia isn't what is used to be.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
I doubt many people actually need a 600 mile range. Few would drive
that distance without stopping - especially in the UK.

It means I fill up about once a month.

Do you live a very long way from a filling station? If not, why carry all
that fuel around for no reason?

--
*Why can't women put on mascara with their mouth closed?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 09/08/2013 23:31, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
I doubt many people actually need a 600 mile range. Few would drive
that distance without stopping - especially in the UK.

It means I fill up about once a month.

Do you live a very long way from a filling station? If not, why carry all
that fuel around for no reason?

In my case, I run full to empty and re-fill. Partial refilling, usually
means that I have to divert off route and fill up on the way to work or
leave earlier on the way home. Okay it's only 12 minutes or so, but I'm
a contractor and arriving 12 minutes later matters at £40 an hour! It's
certainly a hefty price increase on each partial fill.

SteveW

In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
I doubt many people actually need a 600 mile range. Few would drive
that distance without stopping - especially in the UK.

It means I fill up about once a month.

Do you live a very long way from a filling station?

About six miles.

If not, why carry all that fuel around for no reason?

Convenience.

Even on my fairly heavy Rover SD1 with a not particularly large petrol
tank, there is a noticeable difference in performance (when just the
driver on board) between a full and near empty tank.

--
*Wrinkled was not one of the things I wanted to be when I grew up

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 09/08/13 16:59, Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
" wrote:

As your pricing example points out, EV's are *nearly* there, and the
Renault pricing deal will be enough to bring-in more early adopters.

Not with a ****y 130 mile range they aren't; I get a 600 mile range
with a dizzle C4.

the lithium air technology could get to around the same if and when it
becomes a reliable safe, cheap practical commercial solution.

An awful lot of ifs though.

If fossil fuels do price themselves out of the market, you might be
interested to ponder how things will pan out.

Here are some ponderings:

http://www.templar.co.uk/downloads/B...ssil_Fuels.pdf


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

On 10/08/2013 09:19, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/08/13 16:59, Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
" wrote:

As your pricing example points out, EV's are *nearly* there, and the Renault pricing deal will be enough to bring-in more early adopters.

Not with a ****y 130 mile range they aren't; I get a 600 mile range with a dizzle C4.

the lithium air technology could get to around the same if and when it becomes a reliable safe, cheap practical commercial solution.

An awful lot of ifs though.

If fossil fuels do price themselves out of the market, you might be interested to ponder how things will pan out...

I like this idea:

http://www.gereports.com/thorium-las...-nuclear-cars/

Colin Bignell

"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 10/08/2013 09:19, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/08/13 16:59, Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
" wrote:

As your pricing example points out, EV's are *nearly* there, and the
Renault pricing deal will be enough to bring-in more early adopters.

Not with a ****y 130 mile range they aren't; I get a 600 mile range with
a dizzle C4.

the lithium air technology could get to around the same if and when it
becomes a reliable safe, cheap practical commercial solution.

An awful lot of ifs though.

If fossil fuels do price themselves out of the market, you might be
interested to ponder how things will pan out...

I like this idea:

http://www.gereports.com/thorium-las...-nuclear-cars/


What aload of bollix.
(Man invents atom bomb in garage syndrome.)
Up there with cold fusion.
You can tell he's mad by the picture offered of a weird looking car.
The optimum shape for a car has long ago been arrived at.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 09/08/13 16:59, Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
" wrote:

As your pricing example points out, EV's are *nearly* there, and the
Renault pricing deal will be enough to bring-in more early adopters.

Not with a ****y 130 mile range they aren't; I get a 600 mile range with
a dizzle C4.

the lithium air technology could get to around the same if and when it
becomes a reliable safe, cheap practical commercial solution.

An awful lot of ifs though.

If fossil fuels do price themselves out of the market, you might be
interested to ponder how things will pan out.


People will travel by train.

On 10/08/2013 19:42, harryagain wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 09/08/13 16:59, Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
" wrote:

As your pricing example points out, EV's are *nearly* there, and the
Renault pricing deal will be enough to bring-in more early adopters.

Not with a ****y 130 mile range they aren't; I get a 600 mile range with
a dizzle C4.

the lithium air technology could get to around the same if and when it
becomes a reliable safe, cheap practical commercial solution.

An awful lot of ifs though.

If fossil fuels do price themselves out of the market, you might be
interested to ponder how things will pan out.


People will travel by train.

An interesting concept. Would you explain how my wife could visit her
patients in the community by train (or are you going to employ twice as
many nurses to allow for additional waiting and bus/walking time from
house to house?) Or how I can get to work (generally not on a train
route and before the first trains of the day run locally) with a
workplace that moves from place to place so I cannot opt to live locally
- also considering that industries need flexible workforces to survive
the ups and downs of the market while competing against foreign
competition?

SteveW

On 10/08/2013 19:42, harryagain wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 09/08/13 16:59, Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
" wrote:

As your pricing example points out, EV's are *nearly* there, and the
Renault pricing deal will be enough to bring-in more early adopters.

Not with a ****y 130 mile range they aren't; I get a 600 mile range with
a dizzle C4.

the lithium air technology could get to around the same if and when it
becomes a reliable safe, cheap practical commercial solution.

An awful lot of ifs though.

If fossil fuels do price themselves out of the market, you might be
interested to ponder how things will pan out.


People will travel by train.


So the HS2 uses significantly less energy than a small car (even per
person)?

--
Rod

On 09/08/13 16:27, Fredxx wrote:
On 09/08/2013 15:25, Steve Firth wrote:
Renault are starting to really push their Zoe electric car. It's an
amusing price, but massively subsidised by European governments (ie
by you, me and every other taxpayer).

Renault advertise it as 130 mile range but in the small print is
detail that the real world range is closer to 60 miles. But the
interesting detail is that you have to rent the battery. That will
cost the driver £80 a month for 7500 miles a year.

So that's 13p/mile just for the battery. And my wife's boring old
petrol car costs.... 13p/mile in petrol.


So the battery charging costs are on top?
yeah, but the gas that runs the power stations doesn't come with a
massive fuel duty slapped on top.
for a 33% efficent car, a litre of fuel is around 3kwh of electricity
worth after the engine has ****ed most up te exhasut.

so at 12p or so per unit, that comes down to 36p a litre for the 'fuel';

The government would collapse from tax starvation take if E-cars ever
took off.



--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

In article , The Natural Philosopher
scribeth thus
On 09/08/13 16:27, Fredxx wrote:
On 09/08/2013 15:25, Steve Firth wrote:
Renault are starting to really push their Zoe electric car. It's an
amusing price, but massively subsidised by European governments (ie
by you, me and every other taxpayer).

Renault advertise it as 130 mile range but in the small print is
detail that the real world range is closer to 60 miles. But the
interesting detail is that you have to rent the battery. That will
cost the driver £80 a month for 7500 miles a year.

So that's 13p/mile just for the battery. And my wife's boring old
petrol car costs.... 13p/mile in petrol.


So the battery charging costs are on top?
yeah, but the gas that runs the power stations doesn't come with a
massive fuel duty slapped on top.
for a 33% efficent car, a litre of fuel is around 3kwh of electricity
worth after the engine has ****ed most up te exhasut.

so at 12p or so per unit, that comes down to 36p a litre for the 'fuel';



The government would collapse from tax starvation take if E-cars ever
took off.


That comment from you of all TNP!

Noooo!, they just find it expedient to tax the Leccy for "road use" !...



Suppose that Red non - road fuel leccy with be a bit difficult, they'll prolly
have to invent a way of adding "Red electrons" to it;?...
--
Tony Sayer

On 10/08/13 09:29, tony sayer wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
scribeth thus
On 09/08/13 16:27, Fredxx wrote:
On 09/08/2013 15:25, Steve Firth wrote:
Renault are starting to really push their Zoe electric car. It's an
amusing price, but massively subsidised by European governments (ie
by you, me and every other taxpayer).

Renault advertise it as 130 mile range but in the small print is
detail that the real world range is closer to 60 miles. But the
interesting detail is that you have to rent the battery. That will
cost the driver £80 a month for 7500 miles a year.

So that's 13p/mile just for the battery. And my wife's boring old
petrol car costs.... 13p/mile in petrol.

So the battery charging costs are on top?
yeah, but the gas that runs the power stations doesn't come with a
massive fuel duty slapped on top.
for a 33% efficent car, a litre of fuel is around 3kwh of electricity
worth after the engine has ****ed most up te exhasut.

so at 12p or so per unit, that comes down to 36p a litre for the 'fuel';


The government would collapse from tax starvation take if E-cars ever
took off.

That comment from you of all TNP!

Noooo!, they just find it expedient to tax the Leccy for "road use" !...

I am sure they will simply add a battery disposal tax, a soundless
driver tax, and a smart meter to every charging point, and charge you
100quid to park in the middle of cambridge even if its an electric car,
whether or not you want the supplied electricity or not.

It will be illegal to charge a car other than through a completely
dedicated circuit with a totally unique plug and socket, for which a
separete meter will be provided and VAT added at 300%.


Suppose that Red non - road fuel leccy with be a bit difficult, they'll prolly
have to invent a way of adding "Red electrons" to it;?...


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 10/08/13 09:29, tony sayer wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
scribeth thus
On 09/08/13 16:27, Fredxx wrote:
On 09/08/2013 15:25, Steve Firth wrote:
Renault are starting to really push their Zoe electric car. It's an
amusing price, but massively subsidised by European governments (ie
by you, me and every other taxpayer).

Renault advertise it as 130 mile range but in the small print is
detail that the real world range is closer to 60 miles. But the
interesting detail is that you have to rent the battery. That will
cost the driver £80 a month for 7500 miles a year.

So that's 13p/mile just for the battery. And my wife's boring old
petrol car costs.... 13p/mile in petrol.

So the battery charging costs are on top?
yeah, but the gas that runs the power stations doesn't come with a
massive fuel duty slapped on top.
for a 33% efficent car, a litre of fuel is around 3kwh of electricity
worth after the engine has ****ed most up te exhasut.

so at 12p or so per unit, that comes down to 36p a litre for the 'fuel';


The government would collapse from tax starvation take if E-cars ever
took off.

That comment from you of all TNP!

Noooo!, they just find it expedient to tax the Leccy for "road use" !...

I am sure they will simply add a battery disposal tax, a soundless driver
tax, and a smart meter to every charging point, and charge you 100quid to
park in the middle of cambridge even if its an electric car, whether or
not you want the supplied electricity or not.

It will be illegal to charge a car other than through a completely
dedicated circuit with a totally unique plug and socket, for which a
separete meter will be provided and VAT added at 300%.


Suppose that Red non - road fuel leccy with be a bit difficult, they'll
prolly
have to invent a way of adding "Red electrons" to it;?...

Simple
There will be a black box in every car soon recording every movement.
The technology already exists.

But for now all they need is your odometer reading.
Taken at every MOT and tax added to your MOT.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The government would collapse from tax starvation take if E-cars ever
took off.

There will be road pricing long before that. Where you pay so much a mile
travelled.

--
*The older you get, the better you realize you were.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The government would collapse from tax starvation take if E-cars ever
took off.

There will be road pricing long before that. Where you pay so much a mile
travelled.

We already have road pricing of a sort. The further you drive, and the
less efficient your car is, the more tax you pay on the fuel you use.

The only benefit from most of the proposals I've seen for road pricing
would be a reduction in use of busy roads at peak times, which might
save some road building.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On 10/08/13 12:48, John Williamson wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The government would collapse from tax starvation take if E-cars
ever took off.

There will be road pricing long before that. Where you pay so much a
mile
travelled.

We already have road pricing of a sort. The further you drive, and the
less efficient your car is, the more tax you pay on the fuel you use.


er no, the less you drive and the more inefficient your car is the MORE
tax you pay per mile.

A double whammy. Once on the fuel then on the car tax.

The only benefit from most of the proposals I've seen for road pricing
would be a reduction in use of busy roads at peak times, which might
save some road building.



--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

In article ,
John Williamson wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The government would collapse from tax starvation take if E-cars
ever took off.

There will be road pricing long before that. Where you pay so much a
mile travelled.

We already have road pricing of a sort. The further you drive, and the
less efficient your car is, the more tax you pay on the fuel you use.

Well yes. But it's impossible to tax electricity specifically for road
use. It can't be 'marked' in the same way as heating oil etc is to
differentiate that from road fuel.

The only benefit from most of the proposals I've seen for road pricing
would be a reduction in use of busy roads at peak times, which might
save some road building.

--
*CAN AN ATHEIST GET INSURANCE AGAINST ACTS OF GOD?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article
,
Steve Firth wrote:
Renault are starting to really push their Zoe electric car. It's an
amusing price, but massively subsidised by European governments (ie by
you, me and every other taxpayer).

Renault advertise it as 130 mile range but in the small print is detail
that the real world range is closer to 60 miles.

They do themselves no good by this barely veiled attempt at misinformation.
Rather in the same way as many CFLs and LEDs claim to be the equivalent of
say a 100w tungsten bulb when they plainly ain't - and by quite some
margin. Now we all know if you hammer a petrol car the fuel consumption
will increase dramatically - but the difference isn't in the same league
as electric.

But the interesting
detail is that you have to rent the battery. That will cost the driver
£80 a month for 7500 miles a year.

So that's 13p/mile just for the battery. And my wife's boring old
petrol car costs.... 13p/mile in petrol.

I'm struggling to see what makes the electric car a good idea.

I suppose you'd need to know the total running costs over a period of time
- including depreciation - to make a worthwhile judgement. Same as any
car, really.

--
*Yes, I am an agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article
,
Steve Firth wrote:
Renault are starting to really push their Zoe electric car. It's an
amusing price, but massively subsidised by European governments (ie by
you, me and every other taxpayer).

Renault advertise it as 130 mile range but in the small print is detail
that the real world range is closer to 60 miles.

They do themselves no good by this barely veiled attempt at
misinformation.
Rather in the same way as many CFLs and LEDs claim to be the equivalent of
say a 100w tungsten bulb when they plainly ain't - and by quite some
margin. Now we all know if you hammer a petrol car the fuel consumption
will increase dramatically - but the difference isn't in the same league
as electric.

But the interesting
detail is that you have to rent the battery. That will cost the driver
£80 a month for 7500 miles a year.

So that's 13p/mile just for the battery. And my wife's boring old
petrol car costs.... 13p/mile in petrol.

I'm struggling to see what makes the electric car a good idea.

I suppose you'd need to know the total running costs over a period of time
- including depreciation - to make a worthwhile judgement. Same as any
car, really.


Not all cars come with a rental battery.
Those of us with PV panels, charge them up from the PV with free electricity
in Summer.
My car does equivalent of 187mpg.
Or five miles/Kwh.
http://www.nextgreencar.com/view-car...ric-(av-UK-mix)