CJ wrote

Having read the thread I would like to add the following for the groups
discussion.

How dare you ?

I agree with all who say change your insurance carrier as the discount is
far less the cost of an alarm contract.

However an alarm in a domestic property can be justified if it gives piece
of mind to the occupier and alerts neighbours to an alarm or frightens off
the robbers.

Yes, they certainly have their uses.

An alarm will never stop you being robbed if the thief want to take your
things they will find a way.

Very few have stuff that sees thieves behave like that.

ALL you have to do is make your place a lot harder to rob
than someone else's so they rob someone else's instead.

Just imagine having goons with guns at each door and window.

Very few thieves will try to rob a place like that anyway.

On a technical front, PIR detectors can last over 15yrs but deteriorate
with age becoming hyper-sensitive causing false alarms.

I've seen no evidence of that with the best of them.

Dual tec devices start to fail mainly because the microwave antenna
corrodes (especially in damp or cold locations like garages) this causes
the device to go out of tune giving false alarms.

And that doesn't happen with well designed ones
either, they are designed so that they don't corrode.

Modern analytical vibration sensors (if setup correctly) will detect
forced entry on uPVC windows before the glass is broken. Mine did and
still do.

The Redcare system is a BT dedicated telephone line which is monitored
24/7 so the monitoring station will know if the line is cut before you do.

And you can have a system that is battery backed and which uses the
mobile phone system too and that's a lot cheaper in ongoing costs.

Modern dual-com monitoring systems use both the mobile phone network and
landline together so unless you jam the mobile signal and cut the phone
line at the same time a line fault will be sent to the monitoring station.

And the mobile phone system alone is good enough for houses unless
you are a diamond merchant etc and keep the jewels at home etc.

By law external bells must stop after a predetermined time (usually
20mins) but this is set by local authorities.This said if the alarm is
programmed to auto reset as most are the bell will stop for 10secs then
start again.

That doesn't satisfy some jurisdictions.

Monitoring stations will call the police but most forces and stations
operate a 3 strikes and you're out system.
ie. Within a set timeframe ;1st false call a warning 2nd a fine ,3rd a
bigger fine and no more monitoring (NB you will still have to pay for the
duration of the contract.)

And those sorts of monitored systems arent cheap per year.

You can now do the monitoring yourself with a system
that alerts you using the mobile system and which allows
you to have a look at whats going on in the monitored
place so you can decide whether to call the cops etc.

You can even tell the crims that they have been
detected and that the cops are on their way too.

And that sort of system doesn't have massive ongoing costs
and isnt all that expensive to buy when done DIY either.

From the above it becomes clear that to guarantee everything works a
company must regularly check the system and would not normally take on a
DIY install.

But there is nothing to stop you monitoring it yourself
and making an obscene gesture in their general direction.

You can still do that when out of the country trivially too.

We all know this is not always the case but hopefully you can see why
nobody will touch a DIY system.

But there is no reason why you can't touch it yourself.

On Feb 15, 6:53*pm, "ARW" wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
And I have decent neighbours who wouldn't just ignore it.

And that is the key to a good alarm. I have fitted several alarms on my
street - both nextdoor neighbours and the neighbours opposite would respond
if my alarm went off just as I would if theirs went off. I always tell them
when I am working away and they do keep an eye on my house.

--
Adam

A good dog is better than any of the above.
Alarm and attack system in one cheap/free package.

I wonder how this new law about dogs attacking people on private
property will affect dog attacks burglar scenario?

My last dog would have ripped a burglars throat out.

On Feb 15, 8:21*pm, Mathew Newton
wrote:
On Friday, February 15, 2013 7:01:05 PM UTC, wrote:
About 10 times more likely to be burgled without an alarm according to some
stats.

What, those provided by security companies? ;-)

I thought this made interesting reading:

http://www.straightstatistics.org/ar...alarming-claim

Summary:

'The good news is that while homes with no basic home security had a 5.8 per cent chance of being burgled in 2009-10, those with enhanced security had a 0.6 per cent chance – an odds ratio of one to ten.

However, the bad news is that homes with basic home security – defined as window locks and double deadlocks - had a 0.9 per cent chance of having been burgled. This suggests that most of the benefit comes from basic security. By fitting and maintaining an alarm, at enormous expense, a householder will typically avoid one burglary roughly every 300 years.'

I wonder how many of these windows are actually locked in Summer?

On Feb 15, 11:57*pm, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:
In article ,
* *Peter Parry wrote:

It is invariably better to spend *the money you would have wasted on
alarms on better perimeter security including sound doors and locks.

Very difficult to protect a window from a determined attack - unless
you're happy with bars or gates.

I'm always amused to see houses round here with multiple expensive locks
on the front door but original sash windows...


Bungalows amuse me even more.
All the burglar has to do is go on the roof and lift a few tiles.
But a good dog cures most things.

On 16/02/2013 01:58, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Fri, 15 Feb 2013 23:02:07 +0000, charles wrote:

In article ,
Mathew Newton wrote:
On Friday, February 15, 2013 9:43:49 PM UTC, Toby Sleigh wrote:

Are there any companies that will maintain a diy fitted burglar
alarm.

I've not heard of one, for understandable reasons.

I think you'd be better off telling your insurance company you don't
have/use an alarm and pay the rise in premium. You'll still be quids
given the money you've saved not having to pay for a maintenance
contract.

But my insurance co INSIST on an alarm.

Change insurers ?


Move house if the area is that bad?

In article
,
harry wrote:
On Feb 15, 11:57 pm, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:
In article ,
Peter Parry wrote:

It is invariably better to spend the money you would have wasted on
alarms on better perimeter security including sound doors and locks.

Very difficult to protect a window from a determined attack - unless
you're happy with bars or gates.

I'm always amused to see houses round here with multiple expensive locks
on the front door but original sash windows...


Bungalows amuse me even more.
All the burglar has to do is go on the roof and lift a few tiles.
But a good dog cures most things.

at waht cost? After feeding and vet's bills, an alarm might be cheaper.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

harry wrote
ARW wrote
Dave Plowman (News) wrote

And I have decent neighbours who wouldn't just ignore it.

And that is the key to a good alarm. I have fitted several alarms on my
street - both nextdoor neighbours and the neighbours opposite would
respond if my alarm went off just as I would if theirs went off. I always
tell
them when I am working away and they do keep an eye on my house.

A good dog is better than any of the above.

Not necessarily. The bigger dogs that will deter those
who arent afraid of dogs arent exactly cheap to feed
even if they are happy to eat the dry dog food.

Alarm and attack system in one cheap/free package.

No dog is ever free unless you let it eat the neighbourhood
children and even if you do that, that's not free either.

I wonder how this new law about dogs attacking people
on private property will affect dog attacks burglar scenario?

Corse it will.

My last dog would have ripped a burglars throat out.

Mine too. But feeding him was nothing like free.

Its not too clear if he would have ripped a burglar's throat out
because I did get someone to make sure he had enough water
etc to drink etc and he didn't get his throat ripped out.

Rather academic tho, because only the stupidest burglar
would have ever been stupid enough to break in and see.

"harry" wrote in message
...
On Feb 15, 8:21 pm, Mathew Newton
wrote:
On Friday, February 15, 2013 7:01:05 PM UTC,
wrote:
About 10 times more likely to be burgled without an alarm according to
some
stats.

What, those provided by security companies? ;-)

I thought this made interesting reading:

http://www.straightstatistics.org/ar...alarming-claim

Summary:

'The good news is that while homes with no basic home security had a 5.8
per cent chance of being burgled in 2009-10, those with enhanced security
had a 0.6 per cent chance – an odds ratio of one to ten.

However, the bad news is that homes with basic home security – defined as
window locks and double deadlocks - had a 0.9 per cent chance of having
been burgled. This suggests that most of the benefit comes from basic
security. By fitting and maintaining an alarm, at enormous expense, a
householder will typically avoid one burglary roughly every 300 years.'

I wonder how many of these windows are actually locked in Summer?

Mine are when I am sleeping.

Not there is any real need with a decent dog tho.

"harry" wrote in message
...
On Feb 15, 11:57 pm, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:
In article ,
Peter Parry wrote:

It is invariably better to spend the money you would have wasted on
alarms on better perimeter security including sound doors and locks.

Very difficult to protect a window from a determined attack - unless
you're happy with bars or gates.

I'm always amused to see houses round here with multiple expensive locks
on the front door but original sash windows...


Bungalows amuse me even more.
All the burglar has to do is go on the roof and lift a few tiles.

Won't work here, metal decking roof.

But a good dog cures most things.

Doesn't work with the sort of burglar that is good with dogs.

I'd break into any house with a dog in it if say the home
owner had had a heart attack or just couldn't get up etc.

"dennis@home" wrote in message
eb.com...
On 16/02/2013 01:58, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Fri, 15 Feb 2013 23:02:07 +0000, charles wrote:

In article ,
Mathew Newton wrote:
On Friday, February 15, 2013 9:43:49 PM UTC, Toby Sleigh wrote:

Are there any companies that will maintain a diy fitted burglar
alarm.

I've not heard of one, for understandable reasons.

I think you'd be better off telling your insurance company you don't
have/use an alarm and pay the rise in premium. You'll still be quids
given the money you've saved not having to pay for a maintenance
contract.

But my insurance co INSIST on an alarm.

Change insurers ?

Move house if the area is that bad?

Might be quite a bit cheaper to stay and get a decent
alarm if all the insurers feel that way about that area.

Seems pretty daft. I wonder if alarm engineers are allowed to maintain their
own?

Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Toby Sleigh" wrote in message
...
Hope someone can help.....
We have a Friedland SA5 6 zone wireless alarm system that I installed
approx five years ago, and have maintained since. This unit is very
similar to Yale wireless alarms so one or othe is probably a rebadged
version.
Anyway we've recently changed house building & contents insurer. Our new
insurer is insisting that there is a maintenance contract in place. I've
been phoning round & consistently failing to find a company who will take
on a diy installed system.

Are there security companies out there who will maintain diy installed
alarms? or will I have to give up & get an equivalent approved system
installed at vast unnecessary expense.
Location is Ealing, West London.

"charles" wrote in message
...
In article
,
harry wrote:
On Feb 15, 11:57 pm, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:
In article ,
Peter Parry wrote:

It is invariably better to spend the money you would have wasted on
alarms on better perimeter security including sound doors and locks.

Very difficult to protect a window from a determined attack - unless
you're happy with bars or gates.

I'm always amused to see houses round here with multiple expensive
locks
on the front door but original sash windows...


Bungalows amuse me even more.
All the burglar has to do is go on the roof and lift a few tiles.
But a good dog cures most things.

at waht cost? After feeding and vet's bills, an alarm might be cheaper.

A well implemented DIY alarm system with DIY monitoring certainly would be.

On Fri, 15 Feb 2013 23:05:14 +0000 (GMT), charles
wrote:

In article ,
Peter Parry wrote:


As has already been pointed out it is usually a very bad idea to say
you have an alarm for insurance purposes unless it is a proper
monitored Redcare type, not the noddy ADT type auto diallers which are
very simple to disable.

Redcare monitoring cost a small fortune, and won't work if the phone line
is cut.

Redcare is expensive, but works very well if the line is cut. Firstly
it continuously monitors the line state and generates an alert within
about half a minute of a line fault and secondly in most modern
installations switches to a radio backup to still detect sensor
activation.

Automatic dialling alarms on the other hand take e few seconds and
require no tools to disable. They are treated by the police as a Type
B alarm (the same class as bells only) and activation of them will not
generate a police response.

The problem with having an alarm declared to insurers is that
insurers, in the event of a break in will often want proof the alarm
activated to prove the "break in" was not done by someone resident in
the house. In most cases it is impossible with a bells only alarm to
provide such proof.

both my home installed and my pro one have logs which show what caused the
activation.

Having a display purporting to detect an alarm activation which is
very easy for the user to set to show any date or time they like may
not be very acceptable to an insurer.

Also bear in mind police forces do not, as a matter of policy, react
to bells only alarm as over 99% are false alarms. If a neighbour
phones the police and reports an alarm activation they will be
referred to the local council noise abetment unit. Only if they phone
and say the alarm has gone off and they can see someone loading your
belongings into a van might someone turn up, eventually.

When our theatre was broken into, the police got there, called by a
neighbour, before I ddi.

From the ACPO guidance "Association of Chief Police Officer of
England, Wales & Northern Ireland
Police Response to Security Systems Jan 2013"


"3.4.2 To obtain police attendance, Type B systems will require some
additional indication from a person at the scene that a criminal
offence is in progress which indicates that police response is
required. This will require human intervention such as member of
public, owner or agent visiting, or viewing the premises. The
addition of electronic means to provide confirmation will not promote
such systems to Type A or achieve police response.

3.4.3 There is no guarantee of police response to Type B systems.
Type B calls should be passed to the police by public telephone lines
or 999 as appropriate. The level of police response will depend on
the quality of the information received"

"3.4.5 Calls received from non compliant ARCs/RVRCs and calls from
compliant ARCs/RVRCs without a valid URN will not receive a police
response unless circumstances outlined in 3.4.2 and 3.4.3 above
applies."

charles :
Redcare monitoring cost a small fortune, and won't work if the phone line
is cut.

Not true. A BT engineer working on another line up the pole outside the
house accidentally cut us off the other day. The police were here PDQ.

--
Mike Barnes

Brian Gaff wrote

Seems pretty daft. I wonder if alarm engineers are allowed to maintain
their own?

Bet they arent.

"Toby Sleigh" wrote in message
...
Hope someone can help.....
We have a Friedland SA5 6 zone wireless alarm system that I installed
approx five years ago, and have maintained since. This unit is very
similar to Yale wireless alarms so one or othe is probably a rebadged
version.
Anyway we've recently changed house building & contents insurer. Our new
insurer is insisting that there is a maintenance contract in place. I've
been phoning round & consistently failing to find a company who will take
on a diy installed system.

Are there security companies out there who will maintain diy installed
alarms? or will I have to give up & get an equivalent approved system
installed at vast unnecessary expense.
Location is Ealing, West London.

On Saturday, February 16, 2013 2:02:02 AM UTC, Jethro_uk wrote:

My old boss, and ex copper once told me that you shouldn't tell the
police that you can see people in the house ... they'll take ages to turn
up. As he said "Why would anyone turn up if there's a chance of getting
hurt." ?

Nonsense.

It's clear however why he was an *ex* copper though.

On Fri, 15 Feb 2013 18:53:09 -0000, "ARW"
wrote:

And I have decent neighbours who wouldn't just ignore it.

And that is the key to a good alarm.

A few years ago I installed a new consumer unit at an old vet's
practice. I switched off the alarm, but simply couldn't find the
hidden battery and the damn thing sounded for two hours solid until
the battery ran down.
The house was just up the hill from the cop shop and had several
nearby neighbours. Not one person even came around to look up the
driveway, never mind call the cops.

On Friday 15 February 2013 23:02 charles wrote in uk.d-i-y:

In article , Mathew
Newton wrote:
On Friday, February 15, 2013 9:43:49 PM UTC, Toby Sleigh wrote:

Are there any companies that will maintain a diy fitted burglar alarm.

I've not heard of one, for understandable reasons.

I think you'd be better off telling your insurance company you don't
have/use an alarm and pay the rise in premium. You'll still be quids
given the money you've saved not having to pay for a maintenance
contract.

But my insurance co INSIST on an alarm.


Find another insurer then.
--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

On Saturday 16 February 2013 07:50 harry wrote in uk.d-i-y:

On Feb 15, 11:57 pm, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:
In article ,
Peter Parry wrote:

It is invariably better to spend the money you would have wasted on
alarms on better perimeter security including sound doors and locks.

Very difficult to protect a window from a determined attack - unless
you're happy with bars or gates.

I'm always amused to see houses round here with multiple expensive locks
on the front door but original sash windows...


Bungalows amuse me even more.
All the burglar has to do is go on the roof and lift a few tiles.

And cut a few battens and break the nails on every 2nd or 3rd row of tiles.
It would not be a wholly silent procedure.

But a good dog cures most things.
--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

In article , Tim Watts
wrote:
On Friday 15 February 2013 23:02 charles wrote in uk.d-i-y:

In article ,
Mathew Newton wrote:
On Friday, February 15, 2013 9:43:49 PM UTC, Toby Sleigh wrote:

Are there any companies that will maintain a diy fitted burglar
alarm.

I've not heard of one, for understandable reasons.

I think you'd be better off telling your insurance company you don't
have/use an alarm and pay the rise in premium. You'll still be quids
given the money you've saved not having to pay for a maintenance
contract.

But my insurance co INSIST on an alarm.


Find another insurer then.

and pay a much higher premium ....

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

In article
,
harry wrote:
A good dog is better than any of the above.
Alarm and attack system in one cheap/free package.

By that you've never owned a dog.

--
*Funny, I don't remember being absent minded.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 15/02/2013 22:15, Rod Speed wrote:


"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 15/02/2013 16:51, harry wrote:
...
Just put up a fake alarm enclosure/fake TV camera.
You can get them quite cheap with a few LEDS powered by a mini solar
panel.

But don't expect any serious thief to be fooled by them.

But how many of them are serious thieves with domestic houses ?

Most of the are druggys paying for their drug habits.

Possibly true in urban areas, but in rural and semi-rural areas the main
risk is from professional thieves, who are prepared to travel great
distances to find rich pickings.

When ADT took over another company, there was a spate of thefts from
properties that had not had the enclosure updated. The thieves kept
abreast of all the latest developments and they knew that anybody with
the older enclosure was not on a contract and would not be remotely
monitored. They were not worried about a simple alarm, knowing that
they usually get ignored.

That's not a common situation tho, the company takeover allowing that.

That is simply an illustration of how well clued up professional thieves
are. It will apply equally well to fitting fake alarms.

Colin Bignell

On Saturday 16 February 2013 10:50 charles wrote in uk.d-i-y:

In article , Tim Watts
wrote:
On Friday 15 February 2013 23:02 charles wrote in uk.d-i-y:

In article ,
Mathew Newton wrote:
On Friday, February 15, 2013 9:43:49 PM UTC, Toby Sleigh wrote:

Are there any companies that will maintain a diy fitted burglar
alarm.

I've not heard of one, for understandable reasons.

I think you'd be better off telling your insurance company you don't
have/use an alarm and pay the rise in premium. You'll still be quids
given the money you've saved not having to pay for a maintenance
contract.

But my insurance co INSIST on an alarm.


Find another insurer then.

and pay a much higher premium ....


You must live somewhere very "colourful" - I've never seen an alarm
requirement on any insurance quote.

My only problem is that occasionally the flat roof elements on my house
cause odd companies to refuse to quote.


--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article
,
harry wrote:
A good dog is better than any of the above.
Alarm and attack system in one cheap/free package.

By that you've never owned a dog.

I used to think of it as a free bonus when I did own a dog.

Companionship, an excuse for healthy exercise, and a reasonably reliable
burglar alarm and deterrent. Of course, the best system would be to have
two dogs, one small yappy one because they sleep lightly, and will wake
up the large one and the household, and one large one to go for the
throat while the little one distracts the intruder.

Probably illegal now if it's a declared intention, knowing my luck.

I have to admit that mine was more likely to lick an intruder to death
than attack them, though, especially if they had a packet of chips about
their person.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

Jethro_uk wrote:
On Fri, 15 Feb 2013 22:11:11 +0000, Peter Parry wrote:

Also bear in mind police forces do not, as a matter of policy,
react to bells only alarm as over 99% are false alarms. If a
neighbour phones the police and reports an alarm activation they
will be referred to the local council noise abetment unit. Only if
they phone and say the alarm has gone off and they can see someone
loading your belongings into a van might someone turn up,
eventually.

My old boss, and ex copper once told me that you shouldn't tell the
police that you can see people in the house ... they'll take ages to
turn up. As he said "Why would anyone turn up if there's a chance of
getting hurt." ?

They turned up pretty quickly when me an a mate interrupted a breakin at a
chemists late one night. The getaway driver bottled it and drove off, the
guy outside the chemist ran off over the fields and we captured the guy that
was inside the chemists. It was probably the most stupid thing that I have
ever done. We fought with with the guy (and that included pushing fingers
very hard into his eyes and throttling him) before we managed to restrain
him. When the police turned up and arrested him a knife dropped out of the
sleeve of his jumper - that sobered me up, but not sober enough for the
police to take a statement - they had to take one the next day.


--
Adam

Tim Watts wrote:
On Saturday 16 February 2013 10:50 charles wrote in uk.d-i-y:

In article , Tim Watts
wrote:
On Friday 15 February 2013 23:02 charles wrote in uk.d-i-y:

In article
, Mathew
Newton wrote:
On Friday, February 15, 2013 9:43:49 PM UTC, Toby Sleigh
wrote:

Are there any companies that will maintain a diy fitted
burglar alarm.

I've not heard of one, for understandable reasons.

I think you'd be better off telling your insurance company
you don't have/use an alarm and pay the rise in premium.
You'll still be quids given the money you've saved not having
to pay for a maintenance contract.

But my insurance co INSIST on an alarm.


Find another insurer then.

and pay a much higher premium ....


You must live somewhere very "colourful" - I've never seen an alarm
requirement on any insurance quote.

When asked about the alarm when I insure the house the only question is it a
NACOSS approved alarm? I just say no.

--
Adam

In message , geoff
writes

At the rear of my house, I have a sufficient number to sound bombs
(sixteen quads) to make anyone just want to be somewhere else


Sweet :-)

You can never have enough sound bombs, they even manage to drown out my
tinatus!

Seriously making the burglar feel uncomfortable, by what ever method,
does seem the best way to go.

And no, I have not told my insurance company that I have an alarm
fitted, for the reason given earlier, if I don't admit to having one,
they can't hold it against me if for some reason it isn't set when a
break in occurs.




--
Bill

In message
,
harry writes


Just put up a fake alarm enclosure/fake TV camera.
You can get them quite cheap with a few LEDS powered by a mini solar
panel.


You may as well put a notice up saying that "this is a fake camera
please break in".

How many real CCTV cameras do you know with LED indicators on them?
Especially flashing ones?

I have often wondered about the double bluff idea and putting a few
flashing LEDs on real systems though :-)
--
Bill

In message , Bill
writes
In message
,
harry writes


Just put up a fake alarm enclosure/fake TV camera.
You can get them quite cheap with a few LEDS powered by a mini solar
panel.


You may as well put a notice up saying that "this is a fake camera
please break in".

How many real CCTV cameras do you know with LED indicators on them?
Especially flashing ones?

I have often wondered about the double bluff idea and putting a few
flashing LEDs on real systems though :-)


Watford magistrates court used to have a couple of CPC dummy cameras and
a big notice - lying *******s


--
geoff

In message , Bill
writes
In message , geoff
writes

At the rear of my house, I have a sufficient number to sound bombs
(sixteen quads) to make anyone just want to be somewhere else


Sweet :-)

You can never have enough sound bombs, they even manage to drown out my
tinatus!

Seriously making the burglar feel uncomfortable, by what ever method,
does seem the best way to go.

And no, I have not told my insurance company that I have an alarm
fitted, for the reason given earlier, if I don't admit to having one,
they can't hold it against me if for some reason it isn't set when a
break in occurs.

Exactly


--
geoff

In article ,
Nightjar wrote:
Most of the are druggys paying for their drug habits.

Possibly true in urban areas, but in rural and semi-rural areas the main
risk is from professional thieves, who are prepared to travel great
distances to find rich pickings.

Professional thieves ain't going to travel great distances on spec. More
likely target a place they know contains valuables.

The vast majority of burglaries are on spec.

--
*Time is what keeps everything from happening at once.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In message , charles
writes
In article , ARW
wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,

And I have decent neighbours who wouldn't just ignore it.

And that is the key to a good alarm. I have fitted several alarms on my
street - both nextdoor neighbours and the neighbours opposite would
respond if my alarm went off just as I would if theirs went off. I
always tell them when I am working away and they do keep an eye on my
house.

You can have good neighbours and idiot neighbours. When we were burgled
for the first time, our next door neighbour (who was local secretary for
Neighbourhood Watch) heard the breaking glass and breaking wood (a window
was jemmied open) and decided - without investigating - that it was me
cutting a tree down. This, despite the fact it was 4pm on a working day and
both of us worked normal hours.



A neighbour of mine watched as 2 guys loaded £15,000:00 of aluminium
onto a flat bed truck that they had parked in my drive one weekday
afternoon. He said something to the effect that they seemed to be good,
fast workers. Yes, I bet they were!! He is a local councillor and
supposedly intelligent.

At another property a very elderly neighbour, lovely old girl, said that
the guy who had attempted to break in was a nice guy, apparently he had
waved and said hello to her as he walked down the garden path to the
back of the house. Nice guy, but a naff burglar, he couldn't even force
open a 1930s vintage wooden patio door!


--
Bill

In message ,
Mathew Newton writes
On Saturday, February 16, 2013 2:02:02 AM UTC, Jethro_uk wrote:

My old boss, and ex copper once told me that you shouldn't tell the
police that you can see people in the house ... they'll take ages to turn
up. As he said "Why would anyone turn up if there's a chance of getting
hurt." ?

Nonsense.

It's clear however why he was an *ex* copper though.

Aha, a student from the dennis school of deductive reasoning



--
geoff

On 16/02/2013 12:13, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Nightjar wrote:
Most of the are druggys paying for their drug habits.

Possibly true in urban areas, but in rural and semi-rural areas the main
risk is from professional thieves, who are prepared to travel great
distances to find rich pickings.

Professional thieves ain't going to travel great distances on spec. More
likely target a place they know contains valuables.

Exactly why they will know what sort of burglar alarm is being used.

The vast majority of burglaries are on spec.

The vast majority happen in urban areas.

Colin Bignell

In article ,
"CJ" writes:
On a technical front, PIR detectors can last over 15yrs but deteriorate with
age becoming hyper-sensitive causing false alarms.
Dual tec devices start to fail mainly because the microwave antenna corrodes
(especially in damp or cold locations like garages) this causes the device
to go out of tune giving false alarms.

I have tried a number of them...

Focus Dual-tec: 7 out of 8 failed within 3 months and returned.
The one remaining one is still working fine 12 years later.

Pyronix Equinox Dual-tec: No failures in 12 years, but have had
to increase sensitivity on one in a cold location.

Guardall Astra Micra dual-tec: No failures in 12 years.

Pyronix Octopus 360 degree PIR-only: They all lasted about 5 years
before starting to generate false alarms.

Scantronic 460 dual-tec: too soon to say, but no problems in 6 months.

AEI 360 degree PIR-only (CPC): too soon to say, but no problems in 6 months.

[...]
From the above it becomes clear that to guarantee everything works a company
must regularly check the system and would not normally take on a DIY
install.
We all know this is not always the case but hopefully you can see why nobody
will touch a DIY system.

or even a system installed by another alarm company, unless they're
doing a bulk take-over of all their business.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

[cross-posted to uk.tech.electronic-security]

In article ,
"CJ" writes:
On a technical front, PIR detectors can last over 15yrs but deteriorate with
age becoming hyper-sensitive causing false alarms.
Dual tec devices start to fail mainly because the microwave antenna corrodes
(especially in damp or cold locations like garages) this causes the device
to go out of tune giving false alarms.

I have tried a number of them...

Focus Dual-tec: 7 out of 8 failed within 3 months and returned.
The one remaining one is still working fine 12 years later.

Pyronix Equinox Dual-tec: No failures in 12 years, but have had
to increase sensitivity on one in a cold location.

Guardall Astra Micra dual-tec: No failures in 12 years.

Pyronix Octopus 360 degree PIR-only: They all lasted about 5 years
before starting to generate false alarms.

Scantronic 460 dual-tec: too soon to say, but no problems in 6 months.

AEI 360 degree PIR-only (CPC): too soon to say, but no problems in 6 months.

[...]
From the above it becomes clear that to guarantee everything works a company
must regularly check the system and would not normally take on a DIY
install.
We all know this is not always the case but hopefully you can see why nobody
will touch a DIY system.

or even a system installed by another alarm company, unless they're
doing a bulk take-over of all their business.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 15/02/2013 23:07, Rod Speed wrote:


Yes, but its not clear how much of that is very basic stuff like window
locks.

Do good door and window locks make any difference?

I wonder how many householders fitting all these secure mechanisms think
the thief will respect their property win the same way as they do
themselves. Presented with a lock they will simply smash the glass or
kick the door in. Youtube is full of videos showing how easy it is to
overcome the best of locks - often with a minimal amount of skill and a
lot of brute force.

Many insurance companies will give a (fiver) discount if you have
"approved" locks on all opening windows. It's probably best not to take
up this offer if you occasionally leave a window open, or unlocked.

--
mailto:news{at}admac(dot}myzen{dot}co{dot}uk

"larkim" wrote in message
...
On Friday, 15 February 2013 15:13:26 UTC, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Fri, 15 Feb 2013 15:08:11 +0000, Toby Sleigh wrote:

Snipped

IME any discount gained by having a burglar alarm is minimal. Best say

you haven't got one. Especially since if you have got one, but had a

break in when it was off (e.g. you were at home) they may not pay up.

Much as I'd hate to imagine either arriving home with the possessions gone,
or waking up in the night with an intruder around, I still consider it
sufficiently unlikely to occur that its not worth spending £500-£1000 on (in
addition to insurance!!)
Matt
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

So in 2013 with the supposedly new attitude by the authorities to burglars,
what is the best course of action on hearing someone breaking in to your
house downstairs ?

In message , alan
writes
On 15/02/2013 23:07, Rod Speed wrote:


Yes, but its not clear how much of that is very basic stuff like window
locks.

Do good door and window locks make any difference?

I wonder how many householders fitting all these secure mechanisms
think the thief will respect their property win the same way as they do
themselves. Presented with a lock they will simply smash the glass or
kick the door in. Youtube is full of videos showing how easy it is to
overcome the best of locks - often with a minimal amount of skill and a
lot of brute force.

Many insurance companies will give a (fiver) discount if you have
"approved" locks on all opening windows. It's probably best not to take
up this offer if you occasionally leave a window open, or unlocked.

The two are not necessarily connected

If you leave a window or door open and they gain unforced entry, the
insco wouldn't differentiate between approved or non-approved locks

--
geoff

In article ,
SteveW writes:
On 15/02/2013 18:53, ARW wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,

And I have decent neighbours who wouldn't just ignore it.

And that is the key to a good alarm.

I think that it is probably the other way around. A decent alarm, that
doesn't regularly give false alarms, is likely to be checked by the
neighbours, whereas one that's always going off will be ignored.

Our next-door neighbours' alarm never normally goes off. On the one
occassion that it has recently, I checked for signs of entry. Before
they moved in, I just ignored it, because the property was unoccupied,
the alarm was faulty, yet the estate agent kept setting it! Similarly, I
always ignore the alarm on the opposite side of the road, but would
investigate any others going off.

If you have neighbours who come and check when the alarm goes off
(and pleased to say we all do here), you really want to make sure
you don't generate false alarms, as the goodwill very quickly
evaporates. After one false alarm, expect much slower response (if
any), and none after a second one. It will probably at least 2
years without false alarms to recover.

Given that new alarm systems tend to generate false alarms in the
first few months, I generally suggest you wait for a few months
with no false alarms before you enable an external sounder, and
that includes having identified and fixed all causes for false
alarms. That way, you don't blow all the neighbourly goodwill in
the initial teething problems.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]