Hope someone can help.....
We have a Friedland SA5 6 zone wireless alarm system that I installed approx
five years ago, and have maintained since. This unit is very similar to Yale
wireless alarms so one or othe is probably a rebadged version.
Anyway we've recently changed house building & contents insurer. Our new
insurer is insisting that there is a maintenance contract in place. I've
been phoning round & consistently failing to find a company who will take on
a diy installed system.

Are there security companies out there who will maintain diy installed
alarms? or will I have to give up & get an equivalent approved system
installed at vast unnecessary expense.
Location is Ealing, West London.

On 15/02/2013 15:08, Toby Sleigh wrote:
Hope someone can help.....
We have a Friedland SA5 6 zone wireless alarm system that I installed approx
five years ago, and have maintained since. This unit is very similar to Yale
wireless alarms so one or othe is probably a rebadged version.
Anyway we've recently changed house building & contents insurer. Our new
insurer is insisting that there is a maintenance contract in place. I've
been phoning round & consistently failing to find a company who will take on
a diy installed system.

Are there security companies out there who will maintain diy installed
alarms? or will I have to give up & get an equivalent approved system
installed at vast unnecessary expense.
Location is Ealing, West London.


Many won't take on one installed by another security company, let alone
a DIY set-up. It is also of an age when detectors may start to fail,
which they won't want to risk.

Colin Bignell

On Friday, 15 February 2013 15:13:26 UTC, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Fri, 15 Feb 2013 15:08:11 +0000, Toby Sleigh wrote:



Hope someone can help.....

We have a Friedland SA5 6 zone wireless alarm system that I installed

approx five years ago, and have maintained since. This unit is very

similar to Yale wireless alarms so one or othe is probably a rebadged

version. Anyway we've recently changed house building & contents

insurer. Our new insurer is insisting that there is a maintenance

contract in place. I've been phoning round & consistently failing to

find a company who will take on a diy installed system.



Are there security companies out there who will maintain diy installed

alarms? or will I have to give up & get an equivalent approved system

installed at vast unnecessary expense. Location is Ealing, West London.



IME any discount gained by having a burglar alarm is minimal. Best say

you haven't got one. Especially since if you have got one, but had a

break in when it was off (e.g. you were at home) they may not pay up.

I've often wondered whether there was any correlation between having / not having an alarm and being burgled. Certainly isn't something I'd ever bother to have fitted, unless there was a very compelling financial case which saved me more than enough money on the fitting cost compared to the discounts on the insurance (which I doubt is an equation which works in practice).

Much as I'd hate to imagine either arriving home with the possessions gone, or waking up in the night with an intruder around, I still consider it sufficiently unlikely to occur that its not worth spending £500-£1000 on (in addition to insurance!!)

Matt

On Feb 15, 3:13*pm, Jethro_uk wrote:
Especially since if you have got one, but had a
break in when it was off (e.g. you were at home) they may not pay up.

We changed our house insurer in part because the old policy implied,
as you say, that if the alarm was not working *for any reason*
(whether forgetting to set it, or a hardware failure for example) they
might not pay up. That struck us as utterly ridiculous. Our new
insurer gives a discount for having an alarm (so long as it is
professionally maintained) but quite specifically states that if for
any reason it isn't working the most we would be liable for is a small
excess.

Richard.
http://www.rtrussell.co.uk/

In article , Jethro_uk
wrote:
On Fri, 15 Feb 2013 08:03:02 -0800, larkim wrote:

On Friday, 15 February 2013 15:13:26 UTC, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Fri, 15 Feb 2013 15:08:11 +0000, Toby Sleigh wrote:



Hope someone can help.....

We have a Friedland SA5 6 zone wireless alarm system that I installed

approx five years ago, and have maintained since. This unit is very

similar to Yale wireless alarms so one or othe is probably a rebadged

version. Anyway we've recently changed house building & contents

insurer. Our new insurer is insisting that there is a maintenance

contract in place. I've been phoning round & consistently failing to

find a company who will take on a diy installed system.



Are there security companies out there who will maintain diy
installed

alarms? or will I have to give up & get an equivalent approved system

installed at vast unnecessary expense. Location is Ealing, West
London.



IME any discount gained by having a burglar alarm is minimal. Best say

you haven't got one. Especially since if you have got one, but had a

break in when it was off (e.g. you were at home) they may not pay up.

I've often wondered whether there was any correlation between having /
not having an alarm and being burgled. Certainly isn't something I'd
ever bother to have fitted, unless there was a very compelling
financial case which saved me more than enough money on the fitting
cost compared to the discounts on the insurance (which I doubt is an
equation which works in practice).

Simple question: when was the last time *you* did anything about a
burglar alarm ?

The muppets across the road from me managed to forget to turn their alarm
off a couple of years ago, on Saturday evening. They got home, tripped
it, and spent the next 2 hours completely unaware it was sounding. I only
went over because after the 2 hours, when no-one else had done anything,
I looked out the window and saw people moving about, with their car on
the drive and them moving about inside. When they answered the door, they
started by insisting it was their neighbours alarm ....

Much as I'd hate to imagine either arriving home with the possessions
gone, or waking up in the night with an intruder around, I still
consider it sufficiently unlikely to occur that its not worth spending
£500-£1000 on (in addition to insurance!!)


To be honest the loss of stuff would be upsetting, but it's more the
damage that burglars can do that would hurt.

I once heard a policeman giving tips, and a punter was pressing him with
all sorts of increasingly unlikely scenarios. Eventually he just said
"that's what insurance is for."

Havimg been burgled more than oncve - the first time we lost a video
recorder, we have an alarm. As advised by the police "The alarm is to alarm
burglars" we have an internal sounder - very loud. My insurance company
insist on it.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

On Feb 15, 4:03*pm, larkim wrote:
On Friday, 15 February 2013 15:13:26 UTC, Jethro_uk *wrote:
On Fri, 15 Feb 2013 15:08:11 +0000, Toby Sleigh wrote:

Hope someone can help.....

We have a Friedland SA5 6 zone wireless alarm system that I installed

approx five years ago, and have maintained since. This unit is very

similar to Yale wireless alarms so one or othe is probably a rebadged

version. Anyway we've recently changed house building & contents

insurer. Our new insurer is insisting that there is a maintenance

contract in place. I've been phoning round & consistently failing to

find a company who will take on a diy installed system.

Are there security companies out there who will maintain diy installed

alarms? or will I have to give up & get an equivalent approved system

installed at vast unnecessary expense. Location is Ealing, West London.

On Feb 15, 4:32*pm, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Fri, 15 Feb 2013 08:03:02 -0800, larkim wrote:
On Friday, 15 February 2013 15:13:26 UTC, Jethro_uk *wrote:
On Fri, 15 Feb 2013 15:08:11 +0000, Toby Sleigh wrote:

Hope someone can help.....

We have a Friedland SA5 6 zone wireless alarm system that I installed

approx five years ago, and have maintained since. This unit is very

similar to Yale wireless alarms so one or othe is probably a rebadged

version. Anyway we've recently changed house building & contents

insurer. Our new insurer is insisting that there is a maintenance

contract in place. I've been phoning round & consistently failing to

find a company who will take on a diy installed system.

Are there security companies out there who will maintain diy
installed

alarms? or will I have to give up & get an equivalent approved system

installed at vast unnecessary expense. Location is Ealing, West
London.

IME any discount gained by having a burglar alarm is minimal. Best say

you haven't got one. Especially since if you have got one, but had a

break in when it was off (e.g. you were at home) they may not pay up.

I've often wondered whether there was any correlation between having /
not having an alarm and being burgled. *Certainly isn't something I'd
ever bother to have fitted, unless there was a very compelling financial
case which saved me more than enough money on the fitting cost compared
to the discounts on the insurance (which I doubt is an equation which
works in practice).

Simple question: when was the last time *you* did anything about a
burglar alarm ?

The muppets across the road from me managed to forget to turn their alarm
off a couple of years ago, on Saturday evening. They got home, tripped
it, and spent the next 2 hours completely unaware it was sounding. I only
went over because after the 2 hours, when no-one else had done anything,
I looked out the window and saw people moving about, with their car on
the drive and them moving about inside. When they answered the door, they
started by insisting it was their neighbours alarm ....



Much as I'd hate to imagine either arriving home with the possessions
gone, or waking up in the night with an intruder around, I still
consider it sufficiently unlikely to occur that its not worth spending
£500-£1000 on (in addition to insurance!!)

To be honest the loss of stuff would be upsetting, but it's more the
damage that burglars can do that would hurt.

I once heard a policeman giving tips, and a punter was pressing him with
all sorts of increasingly unlikely scenarios. Eventually he just said
"that's what insurance is for."

Best to find a really good hidey hole for valuable stuff.

In article ,
Nightjar wrote:
Many won't take on one installed by another security company, let alone
a DIY set-up. It is also of an age when detectors may start to fail,
which they won't want to risk.

Eh? I've not had to replace a PIR sensor at all on this home installed
system which is more like 15 years old. What fails in them?

--
*Why is it considered necessary to screw down the lid of a coffin?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 15/02/2013 16:51, harry wrote:
....
Just put up a fake alarm enclosure/fake TV camera.
You can get them quite cheap with a few LEDS powered by a mini solar
panel.


But don't expect any serious thief to be fooled by them. When ADT took
over another company, there was a spate of thefts from properties that
had not had the enclosure updated. The thieves kept abreast of all the
latest developments and they knew that anybody with the older enclosure
was not on a contract and would not be remotely monitored. They were not
worried about a simple alarm, knowing that they usually get ignored.

Colin Bignell

In article ,
larkim wrote:
Much as I'd hate to imagine either arriving home with the possessions
gone, or waking up in the night with an intruder around, I still
consider it sufficiently unlikely to occur that its not worth spending
£500-£1000 on (in addition to insurance!!)

I'd certainly never pay for a pro install with maintenance contract. It
can be DIY'd for a lot less than that, although cabled sensors etc (which
I prefer) are quite a bit of work to install neatly. There's the chance a
prospective burglar will see the alarm and decide to move on to somewhere
without one. Not sure if this is actually the case, though. Mine also
dials my mobile. And I have decent neighbours who wouldn't just ignore it.

--
*Gaffer tape - The Force, light and dark sides - holds the universe together*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article
,
harry wrote:
I once heard a policeman giving tips, and a punter was pressing him
with all sorts of increasingly unlikely scenarios. Eventually he just
said "that's what insurance is for."

Best to find a really good hidey hole for valuable stuff.

Only time I was successfully burgled was many years ago. (a couple of
attempts since then but they didn't get in) And all that was taken was the
VCR. Hardly the sort of thing you could lock up securely when you went out.

In some ways it might be better to leave a reasonable sum of money easily
found. (not on view, obviously) Rather than have the thief do lots of
damage looking for valuables. Most burglaries in cities are simply junkies
looking for enough money for a fix - as soon as they get that or goods
which they can sell, they're off.

--
*The fact that no one understands you doesn't mean you're an artist

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 15/02/2013 15:08, Toby Sleigh wrote:
Hope someone can help.....
We have a Friedland SA5 6 zone wireless alarm system that I installed approx
five years ago, and have maintained since. This unit is very similar to Yale
wireless alarms so one or othe is probably a rebadged version.
Anyway we've recently changed house building & contents insurer. Our new
insurer is insisting that there is a maintenance contract in place. I've
been phoning round & consistently failing to find a company who will take on
a diy installed system.

Are there security companies out there who will maintain diy installed
alarms? or will I have to give up & get an equivalent approved system
installed at vast unnecessary expense.
Location is Ealing, West London.


The insurance companies will only give you a fiver discount if you have
a professionally installed alarm with a maintenance contract costing
hundreds per annum.

You would have been better off not to have admitted to having an alarm
in the first place.

--
mailto:news{at}admac(dot}myzen{dot}co{dot}uk

On 15/02/2013 17:07, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Nightjar wrote:
Many won't take on one installed by another security company, let alone
a DIY set-up. It is also of an age when detectors may start to fail,
which they won't want to risk.

Eh? I've not had to replace a PIR sensor at all on this home installed
system which is more like 15 years old. What fails in them?

BIIK I just know that when I had industrial units with professionally
installed systems, we started getting failures in a very small number of
sensors at around five years old. It may be relevant that they were
combined PIR and microwave sensors, rather than simple PIRs.

Colin Bignell

On 15/02/2013 17:22, alan wrote:
On 15/02/2013 15:08, Toby Sleigh wrote:
Hope someone can help.....
We have a Friedland SA5 6 zone wireless alarm system that I installed
approx
five years ago, and have maintained since. This unit is very similar
to Yale
wireless alarms so one or othe is probably a rebadged version.
Anyway we've recently changed house building & contents insurer. Our new
insurer is insisting that there is a maintenance contract in place. I've
been phoning round & consistently failing to find a company who will
take on
a diy installed system.

Are there security companies out there who will maintain diy installed
alarms? or will I have to give up & get an equivalent approved system
installed at vast unnecessary expense.
Location is Ealing, West London.


The insurance companies will only give you a fiver discount if you have
a professionally installed alarm with a maintenance contract costing
hundreds per annum.

You would have been better off not to have admitted to having an alarm
in the first place.


+1

With Upvc it's the damage they do getting in that costs the money.
I think those little impact sensors are worth having because they make a
noise before the door/window actually opens. A system that only works
when the damage has already been done is of limited use.
The best thing about an alarm is that when you arrive home it's a
warning that someone has been in, and maybe still there

On Friday, February 15, 2013 7:01:05 PM UTC, wrote:

About 10 times more likely to be burgled without an alarm according to some
stats.

What, those provided by security companies? ;-)

I thought this made interesting reading:

http://www.straightstatistics.org/ar...alarming-claim

Summary:

'The good news is that while homes with no basic home security had a 5.8 per cent chance of being burgled in 2009-10, those with enhanced security had a 0.6 per cent chance – an odds ratio of one to ten.

However, the bad news is that homes with basic home security – defined as window locks and double deadlocks - had a 0.9 per cent chance of having been burgled. This suggests that most of the benefit comes from basic security. By fitting and maintaining an alarm, at enormous expense, a householder will typically avoid one burglary roughly every 300 years.'

"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...
On 15/02/2013 15:08, Toby Sleigh wrote:
Hope someone can help.....
We have a Friedland SA5 6 zone wireless alarm system that I installed
approx
five years ago, and have maintained since. This unit is very similar to
Yale
wireless alarms so one or othe is probably a rebadged version.
Anyway we've recently changed house building& contents insurer. Our new
insurer is insisting that there is a maintenance contract in place. I've
been phoning round& consistently failing to find a company who will take
on
a diy installed system.

Are there security companies out there who will maintain diy installed
alarms? or will I have to give up& get an equivalent approved system
installed at vast unnecessary expense.
Location is Ealing, West London.


Since you maintain it yourself, set up your own maintenance company, and
sell yourself a contract!
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________


A cunning plan indeed, but insurance companies are notorious for weasling
out on the slightest excuse, so my original question still remains
unanswered.
Are there any companies that will maintain a diy fitted burglar alarm.

"Toby Sleigh" wrote in message
...
Hope someone can help.....
We have a Friedland SA5 6 zone wireless alarm system that I installed
approx five years ago, and have maintained since. This unit is very
similar to Yale wireless alarms so one or othe is probably a rebadged
version.
Anyway we've recently changed house building & contents insurer. Our new
insurer is insisting that there is a maintenance contract in place. I've
been phoning round & consistently failing to find a company who will take
on a diy installed system.

Are there security companies out there who will maintain diy installed
alarms? or will I have to give up & get an equivalent approved system
installed at vast unnecessary expense.

Makes more sense to change the insurance company to one with a clue.

Location is Ealing, West London.

On Friday, February 15, 2013 9:43:49 PM UTC, Toby Sleigh wrote:

Are there any companies that will maintain a diy fitted burglar alarm.

I've not heard of one, for understandable reasons.

I think you'd be better off telling your insurance company you don't have/use an alarm and pay the rise in premium. You'll still be quids given the money you've saved not having to pay for a maintenance contract.

Mathew

"harry" wrote in message
...
On Feb 15, 4:03 pm, larkim wrote:
On Friday, 15 February 2013 15:13:26 UTC, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Fri, 15 Feb 2013 15:08:11 +0000, Toby Sleigh wrote:

Hope someone can help.....

We have a Friedland SA5 6 zone wireless alarm system that I installed

approx five years ago, and have maintained since. This unit is very

similar to Yale wireless alarms so one or othe is probably a rebadged

version. Anyway we've recently changed house building & contents

insurer. Our new insurer is insisting that there is a maintenance

contract in place. I've been phoning round & consistently failing to

find a company who will take on a diy installed system.

Are there security companies out there who will maintain diy
installed

alarms? or will I have to give up & get an equivalent approved system

installed at vast unnecessary expense. Location is Ealing, West
London.

IME any discount gained by having a burglar alarm is minimal. Best say

you haven't got one. Especially since if you have got one, but had a

break in when it was off (e.g. you were at home) they may not pay up.

I've often wondered whether there was any correlation between having /
not having an alarm and being burgled. Certainly isn't something I'd
ever bother to have fitted, unless there was a very compelling financial
case which saved me more than enough money on the fitting cost compared
to the discounts on the insurance (which I doubt is an equation which
works in practice).

Much as I'd hate to imagine either arriving home with the possessions
gone, or waking up in the night with an intruder around, I still consider
it sufficiently unlikely to occur that its not worth spending £500-£1000
on (in addition to insurance!!)

Just put up a fake alarm enclosure/fake TV camera.

I bet the better burglars know which those are.

You can get them quite cheap with a few LEDS powered by a mini solar
panel.

Doesn't cost much more for a very basic movement triggered
alarm in the most important part of the house with a VERY
loud internal bell that sees the burglars **** off before the
cops show up.

"harry" wrote in message
...
On Feb 15, 4:32 pm, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Fri, 15 Feb 2013 08:03:02 -0800, larkim wrote:
On Friday, 15 February 2013 15:13:26 UTC, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Fri, 15 Feb 2013 15:08:11 +0000, Toby Sleigh wrote:

Hope someone can help.....

We have a Friedland SA5 6 zone wireless alarm system that I
installed

approx five years ago, and have maintained since. This unit is very

similar to Yale wireless alarms so one or othe is probably a
rebadged

version. Anyway we've recently changed house building & contents

insurer. Our new insurer is insisting that there is a maintenance

contract in place. I've been phoning round & consistently failing to

find a company who will take on a diy installed system.

Are there security companies out there who will maintain diy
installed

alarms? or will I have to give up & get an equivalent approved
system

installed at vast unnecessary expense. Location is Ealing, West
London.

IME any discount gained by having a burglar alarm is minimal. Best say

you haven't got one. Especially since if you have got one, but had a

break in when it was off (e.g. you were at home) they may not pay up.

I've often wondered whether there was any correlation between having /
not having an alarm and being burgled. Certainly isn't something I'd
ever bother to have fitted, unless there was a very compelling
financial
case which saved me more than enough money on the fitting cost compared
to the discounts on the insurance (which I doubt is an equation which
works in practice).

Simple question: when was the last time *you* did anything about a
burglar alarm ?

The muppets across the road from me managed to forget to turn their alarm
off a couple of years ago, on Saturday evening. They got home, tripped
it, and spent the next 2 hours completely unaware it was sounding. I only
went over because after the 2 hours, when no-one else had done anything,
I looked out the window and saw people moving about, with their car on
the drive and them moving about inside. When they answered the door, they
started by insisting it was their neighbours alarm ....



Much as I'd hate to imagine either arriving home with the possessions
gone, or waking up in the night with an intruder around, I still
consider it sufficiently unlikely to occur that its not worth spending
£500-£1000 on (in addition to insurance!!)

To be honest the loss of stuff would be upsetting, but it's more the
damage that burglars can do that would hurt.

I once heard a policeman giving tips, and a punter was pressing him with
all sorts of increasingly unlikely scenarios. Eventually he just said
"that's what insurance is for."

Best to find a really good hidey hole for valuable stuff.

But most of us arent actually stupid enough to keep much
of that at home. What we do keep there is our toys that
arent practical to put into some hidey hole all the time.

On Fri, 15 Feb 2013 19:01:05 -0000, "ARW"
wrote:


About 10 times more likely to be burgled without an alarm according to some
stats.

Only "statistics" produced by alarm sellers (in all senses of the
word). There is no appreciable difference in likelihood of break ins
to properties with alarms and those without. Most burglaries are
simple smash and grabs for more drug money. The scrotes know full
well there will be either no response or at worst they have some time
to clean out the obvious pickings.

It is invariably better to spend the money you would have wasted on
alarms on better perimeter security including sound doors and locks.

On Fri, 15 Feb 2013 21:43:49 -0000, "Toby Sleigh"
wrote:


A cunning plan indeed, but insurance companies are notorious for weasling
out on the slightest excuse, so my original question still remains
unanswered.
Are there any companies that will maintain a diy fitted burglar alarm.

Not that I have ever come across, and it would take a very silly
company to chose to do so.

As has already been pointed out it is usually a very bad idea to say
you have an alarm for insurance purposes unless it is a proper
monitored Redcare type, not the noddy ADT type auto diallers which are
very simple to disable.

The problem with having an alarm declared to insurers is that
insurers, in the event of a break in will often want proof the alarm
activated to prove the "break in" was not done by someone resident in
the house. In most cases it is impossible with a bells only alarm to
provide such proof.

In any event the discount they offer is far lower than the cost of any
maintenance contract.

Also bear in mind police forces do not, as a matter of policy, react
to bells only alarm as over 99% are false alarms. If a neighbour
phones the police and reports an alarm activation they will be
referred to the local council noise abetment unit. Only if they phone
and say the alarm has gone off and they can see someone loading your
belongings into a van might someone turn up, eventually.

larkim wrote:
On Friday, 15 February 2013 15:13:26 UTC, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Fri, 15 Feb 2013 15:08:11 +0000, Toby Sleigh wrote:



Hope someone can help.....

We have a Friedland SA5 6 zone wireless alarm system that I
installed

approx five years ago, and have maintained since. This unit is very

similar to Yale wireless alarms so one or othe is probably a
rebadged

version. Anyway we've recently changed house building & contents

insurer. Our new insurer is insisting that there is a maintenance

contract in place. I've been phoning round & consistently failing to

find a company who will take on a diy installed system.



Are there security companies out there who will maintain diy
installed

alarms? or will I have to give up & get an equivalent approved
system

installed at vast unnecessary expense. Location is Ealing, West
London.



IME any discount gained by having a burglar alarm is minimal. Best
say

you haven't got one. Especially since if you have got one, but had a

break in when it was off (e.g. you were at home) they may not pay up.

I've often wondered whether there was any correlation between having
/ not having an alarm and being burgled. Certainly isn't something
I'd ever bother to have fitted, unless there was a very compelling
financial case which saved me more than enough money on the fitting
cost compared to the discounts on the insurance (which I doubt is an
equation which works in practice).

Much as I'd hate to imagine either arriving home with the possessions
gone, or waking up in the night with an intruder around, I still
consider it sufficiently unlikely to occur that its not worth
spending £500-£1000 on (in addition to insurance!!)

Matt

Mat,

We were burgled some years ago with a fair bit of cash, goods and a car
lifted whilst we were asleep upstairs. When both the police and insurance
assessor turn up (at different times) both stated that there was a high
possibility of the thieving scrotes returning for another bite of the cherry
and they advised that we have a *professionally* fitted and maintained alarm
as a deterrent.

We did that within a week at a cost of around £600 (ALL external doors and
windows, garage and workshop) with a mix of vibration, motion, internal
sounder and door sensors, and lo and behold, within a fortnight the scrotes
did return and the alarm did its job and they got no further than attempting
to force a side door - and we've had several other attempts since with the
last about six months ago.

We also have a yearly maintenance contract with the local company that
fitted it - and in fact when it was last 'serviced' in January, I was told
that if parts now became unavailable for the main control board, they would
fit a new entire system free of charge.

Was it worth having the alarm fitted? In my opinion yes, just for the fact
that it made SWMBO feel a lot safer with the fact there would at least some
warning if they tried again (she'd had her engagement and eternity rings
lifted by the thieving *******s which really upset her) and it took a long
time for her to get over that incident and even now she still hides her
handbag and rings well out of sight every night - some 20 years after that
incident.

Even now, at my age and state of health, if I could find them, I'd do some
severe personal injury to the *******s before calling the law just for the
upset it caused SWMBO.


Cash

"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 15/02/2013 16:51, harry wrote:
...
Just put up a fake alarm enclosure/fake TV camera.
You can get them quite cheap with a few LEDS powered by a mini solar
panel.

But don't expect any serious thief to be fooled by them.

But how many of them are serious thieves with domestic houses ?

Most of the are druggys paying for their drug habits.

When ADT took over another company, there was a spate of thefts from
properties that had not had the enclosure updated. The thieves kept
abreast of all the latest developments and they knew that anybody with the
older enclosure was not on a contract and would not be remotely monitored.
They were not worried about a simple alarm, knowing that they usually get
ignored.

That's not a common situation tho, the company takeover allowing that.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
larkim wrote:
Much as I'd hate to imagine either arriving home with the possessions
gone, or waking up in the night with an intruder around, I still
consider it sufficiently unlikely to occur that its not worth spending
£500-£1000 on (in addition to insurance!!)

I'd certainly never pay for a pro install with maintenance contract. It
can be DIY'd for a lot less than that, although cabled sensors etc (which
I prefer) are quite a bit of work to install neatly. There's the chance a
prospective burglar will see the alarm and decide to move on to somewhere
without one. Not sure if this is actually the case, though. Mine also
dials
my mobile. And I have decent neighbours who wouldn't just ignore it.

Yeah, mine don't and we regularly see all of us show up
outside one where the alarm has just gone off, often me first.

But we so sometimes see all of us away at the same
time so calling your own mobile is useful too.

We have have a number of actual burglarys and more
where the alarm going off has seen the burglar **** off.

None of ours are remotely monitored, mainly because
we don't ignore each other's alarms going off.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article
,
harry wrote:
I once heard a policeman giving tips, and a punter was pressing him
with all sorts of increasingly unlikely scenarios. Eventually he just
said "that's what insurance is for."

Best to find a really good hidey hole for valuable stuff.

Only time I was successfully burgled was many years ago. (a couple of
attempts since then but they didn't get in) And all that was taken was the
VCR. Hardly the sort of thing you could lock up securely when you went
out.

In some ways it might be better to leave a reasonable sum of money easily
found. (not on view, obviously) Rather than have the thief do lots of
damage looking for valuables. Most burglaries in cities are simply junkies
looking for enough money for a fix - as soon as they get that or goods
which they can sell, they're off.

Likely they would keep coming back every time they need more drugs tho.

"ARW" wrote in message
...
larkim wrote:
On Friday, 15 February 2013 15:13:26 UTC, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Fri, 15 Feb 2013 15:08:11 +0000, Toby Sleigh wrote:



Hope someone can help.....

We have a Friedland SA5 6 zone wireless alarm system that I
installed

approx five years ago, and have maintained since. This unit is
very

similar to Yale wireless alarms so one or othe is probably a
rebadged

version. Anyway we've recently changed house building & contents

insurer. Our new insurer is insisting that there is a maintenance

contract in place. I've been phoning round & consistently failing
to

find a company who will take on a diy installed system.



Are there security companies out there who will maintain diy
installed

alarms? or will I have to give up & get an equivalent approved
system

installed at vast unnecessary expense. Location is Ealing, West
London.



IME any discount gained by having a burglar alarm is minimal. Best
say

you haven't got one. Especially since if you have got one, but had a

break in when it was off (e.g. you were at home) they may not pay
up.

I've often wondered whether there was any correlation between having
/ not having an alarm and being burgled.

About 10 times more likely to be burgled without an alarm according to
some stats.

9/10 alarms that I fit (other than new builds) are fitted the week after
the house was burgled.

But its less clear if that does affect the future burglary rate.

The stats must be available.

"charles" wrote in message
...
In article , ARW
wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,

And I have decent neighbours who wouldn't just ignore it.

And that is the key to a good alarm. I have fitted several alarms on my
street - both nextdoor neighbours and the neighbours opposite would
respond if my alarm went off just as I would if theirs went off. I
always tell them when I am working away and they do keep an eye on my
house.

You can have good neighbours and idiot neighbours. When we were burgled
for the first time, our next door neighbour (who was local secretary for
Neighbourhood Watch) heard the breaking glass and breaking wood (a window
was jemmied open) and decided - without investigating - that it was me
cutting a tree down. This, despite the fact it was 4pm on a working day
and
both of us worked normal hours.

Sure, but I have often wondered about something I have
heard and don’t always bother to check on the noise. Its
never been other than someone who lives there yet.

I've also called the cops out when I saw someone go over the
wall down the side of the neighbour's place and got no answer
when I rang the house. Turned out to be the son's mates wagging
school and playing pool in the pool room in the separate building
behind the house.

I always do check when their alarm goes off tho except when they
clearly have just ****ed up putting the PIN in and it gets cancelled
quickly.

In message , charles
writes
In article , Jethro_uk
wrote:
On Fri, 15 Feb 2013 08:03:02 -0800, larkim wrote:

On Friday, 15 February 2013 15:13:26 UTC, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Fri, 15 Feb 2013 15:08:11 +0000, Toby Sleigh wrote:



Hope someone can help.....

We have a Friedland SA5 6 zone wireless alarm system that I installed

approx five years ago, and have maintained since. This unit is very

similar to Yale wireless alarms so one or othe is probably a rebadged

version. Anyway we've recently changed house building & contents

insurer. Our new insurer is insisting that there is a maintenance

contract in place. I've been phoning round & consistently failing to

find a company who will take on a diy installed system.



Are there security companies out there who will maintain diy
installed

alarms? or will I have to give up & get an equivalent approved system

installed at vast unnecessary expense. Location is Ealing, West
London.



IME any discount gained by having a burglar alarm is minimal. Best say

you haven't got one. Especially since if you have got one, but had a

break in when it was off (e.g. you were at home) they may not pay up.

I've often wondered whether there was any correlation between having /
not having an alarm and being burgled. Certainly isn't something I'd
ever bother to have fitted, unless there was a very compelling
financial case which saved me more than enough money on the fitting
cost compared to the discounts on the insurance (which I doubt is an
equation which works in practice).

Simple question: when was the last time *you* did anything about a
burglar alarm ?

The muppets across the road from me managed to forget to turn their alarm
off a couple of years ago, on Saturday evening. They got home, tripped
it, and spent the next 2 hours completely unaware it was sounding. I only
went over because after the 2 hours, when no-one else had done anything,
I looked out the window and saw people moving about, with their car on
the drive and them moving about inside. When they answered the door, they
started by insisting it was their neighbours alarm ....

Much as I'd hate to imagine either arriving home with the possessions
gone, or waking up in the night with an intruder around, I still
consider it sufficiently unlikely to occur that its not worth spending
£500-£1000 on (in addition to insurance!!)


To be honest the loss of stuff would be upsetting, but it's more the
damage that burglars can do that would hurt.

I once heard a policeman giving tips, and a punter was pressing him with
all sorts of increasingly unlikely scenarios. Eventually he just said
"that's what insurance is for."

Havimg been burgled more than oncve - the first time we lost a video
recorder, we have an alarm. As advised by the police "The alarm is to alarm
burglars" we have an internal sounder - very loud. My insurance company
insist on it.


At the rear of my house, I have a sufficient number to sound bombs
(sixteen quads) to make anyone just want to be somewhere else


--
geoff

In article , Mathew
Newton wrote:
On Friday, February 15, 2013 9:43:49 PM UTC, Toby Sleigh wrote:

Are there any companies that will maintain a diy fitted burglar alarm.

I've not heard of one, for understandable reasons.

I think you'd be better off telling your insurance company you don't
have/use an alarm and pay the rise in premium. You'll still be quids
given the money you've saved not having to pay for a maintenance contract.

But my insurance co INSIST on an alarm.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

In article ,
Peter Parry wrote:
On Fri, 15 Feb 2013 21:43:49 -0000, "Toby Sleigh"
wrote:


A cunning plan indeed, but insurance companies are notorious for
weasling out on the slightest excuse, so my original question still
remains unanswered. Are there any companies that will maintain a diy
fitted burglar alarm.

Not that I have ever come across, and it would take a very silly
company to chose to do so.

As has already been pointed out it is usually a very bad idea to say
you have an alarm for insurance purposes unless it is a proper
monitored Redcare type, not the noddy ADT type auto diallers which are
very simple to disable.

Redcare monitoring cost a small fortune, and won't work if the phone line
is cut.

The problem with having an alarm declared to insurers is that
insurers, in the event of a break in will often want proof the alarm
activated to prove the "break in" was not done by someone resident in
the house. In most cases it is impossible with a bells only alarm to
provide such proof.

both my home installed and my pro one have logs which show what caused the
activation.

In any event the discount they offer is far lower than the cost of any
maintenance contract.

Also bear in mind police forces do not, as a matter of policy, react
to bells only alarm as over 99% are false alarms. If a neighbour
phones the police and reports an alarm activation they will be
referred to the local council noise abetment unit. Only if they phone
and say the alarm has gone off and they can see someone loading your
belongings into a van might someone turn up, eventually.

When our theatre was broken into, the police got there, called by a
neighbour, before I ddi.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

Mathew Newton wrote
wrote

About 10 times more likely to be burgled without an alarm according to
some stats.

What, those provided by security companies? ;-)

Yours says the same thing. But that’s misleading, as yours says.

I thought this made interesting reading:
http://www.straightstatistics.org/ar...alarming-claim

Yep.

Summary:

'The good news is that while homes with no basic home security had
a 5.8 per cent chance of being burgled in 2009-10, those with enhanced
security had a 0.6 per cent chance – an odds ratio of one to ten.

However, the bad news is that homes with basic home
security – defined as window locks and double deadlocks
- had a 0.9 per cent chance of having been burgled.

It would be interesting to see a breakdown on the basic home security.

This suggests that most of the benefit comes from basic security.

Yes, but its not clear how much of that is very basic stuff like window
locks.

By fitting and maintaining an alarm, at enormous expense,

That last is drivel with DIY alarm systems.

a householder will typically avoid one burglary roughly every 300 years.'

That’s certainly interesting. Less clear how true that is with
a particular house that already has basic security tho.

"Toby Sleigh" wrote in message
...

"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...
On 15/02/2013 15:08, Toby Sleigh wrote:
Hope someone can help.....
We have a Friedland SA5 6 zone wireless alarm system that I installed
approx
five years ago, and have maintained since. This unit is very similar to
Yale
wireless alarms so one or othe is probably a rebadged version.
Anyway we've recently changed house building& contents insurer. Our new
insurer is insisting that there is a maintenance contract in place. I've
been phoning round& consistently failing to find a company who will
take on
a diy installed system.

Are there security companies out there who will maintain diy installed
alarms? or will I have to give up& get an equivalent approved system
installed at vast unnecessary expense.
Location is Ealing, West London.


Since you maintain it yourself, set up your own maintenance company, and
sell yourself a contract!
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________


A cunning plan indeed, but insurance companies are notorious for weasling
out on the slightest excuse, so my original question still remains
unanswered.

Are there any companies that will maintain a diy fitted burglar alarm.

A more useful question is whether the discount you get on your
insurance is more than you would have to pay for a maintenance
contract on a DIY fitted burglar alarm, even if you could find one.

Sounds a tad unlikely to me and you can get a ballpark estimate
just by looking at the price they charge for the maintenance of
a burglar alarm system that they themselves have fitted.

"Peter Parry" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 15 Feb 2013 19:01:05 -0000, "ARW"
wrote:


About 10 times more likely to be burgled without an alarm according to
some
stats.

Only "statistics" produced by alarm sellers (in all senses of the
word). There is no appreciable difference in likelihood of break ins
to properties with alarms and those without. Most burglaries are
simple smash and grabs for more drug money. The scrotes know full
well there will be either no response or at worst they have some time
to clean out the obvious pickings.

It is invariably better to spend the money you would have wasted on
alarms on better perimeter security including sound doors and locks.

Surely they just go thru the window in that case ?

While bars do stop that, they have other downsides like its
harder to get out if you end up with a decent fire in the house
that makes it impossible to use a door.

"Peter Parry" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 15 Feb 2013 21:43:49 -0000, "Toby Sleigh"
wrote:


A cunning plan indeed, but insurance companies are notorious for weasling
out on the slightest excuse, so my original question still remains
unanswered.
Are there any companies that will maintain a diy fitted burglar alarm.

Not that I have ever come across, and it would take a very silly
company to chose to do so.

As has already been pointed out it is usually a very bad idea to say
you have an alarm for insurance purposes unless it is a proper
monitored Redcare type, not the noddy ADT type auto diallers which are
very simple to disable.

How do you propose to disable them ?

Particularly when they use the mobile phone system.

The problem with having an alarm declared to insurers is that
insurers, in the event of a break in will often want proof the alarm
activated to prove the "break in" was not done by someone resident in
the house. In most cases it is impossible with a bells only alarm to
provide such proof.

In any event the discount they offer is far lower than the cost of any
maintenance contract.

Also bear in mind police forces do not, as a matter of policy, react
to bells only alarm as over 99% are false alarms. If a neighbour
phones the police and reports an alarm activation they will be
referred to the local council noise abetment unit. Only if they phone
and say the alarm has gone off and they can see someone loading your
belongings into a van might someone turn up, eventually.

That isnt what happened here. The cops showed up very
promptly and they certainly weren't told that anyone saw
anything being loaded into a van or into anything else either.

In article ,
SteveW wrote:
On 15/02/2013 18:53, ARW wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,

And I have decent neighbours who wouldn't just ignore it.

And that is the key to a good alarm.

I think that it is probably the other way around. A decent alarm, that
doesn't regularly give false alarms, is likely to be checked by the
neighbours, whereas one that's always going off will be ignored.

All the ones which go off regularly round here without an intruder are pro
installed on maintenance contracts. Which doesn't surprise me given the
very poor wiring installation standards of many of these - cables run down
the side of carpets, etc. Just asking to be damaged when a new carpet is
fitted.

--
*What hair colour do they put on the driver's license of a bald man? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Peter Parry wrote:
It is invariably better to spend the money you would have wasted on
alarms on better perimeter security including sound doors and locks.

Very difficult to protect a window from a determined attack - unless
you're happy with bars or gates.

I'm always amused to see houses round here with multiple expensive locks
on the front door but original sash windows...

--
*Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"charles" wrote in message
...
In article , Mathew
Newton wrote:
On Friday, February 15, 2013 9:43:49 PM UTC, Toby Sleigh wrote:

Are there any companies that will maintain a diy fitted burglar alarm.

I've not heard of one, for understandable reasons.

I think you'd be better off telling your insurance company you don't
have/use an alarm and pay the rise in premium. You'll still be quids
given the money you've saved not having to pay for a maintenance
contract.

But my insurance co INSIST on an alarm.

Time to find a better one.

Jethro_uk wrote
Peter Parry wrote

Also bear in mind police forces do not, as a matter of policy, react to
bells only alarm as over 99% are false alarms. If a neighbour phones
the police and reports an alarm activation they will be referred to the
local council noise abetment unit. Only if they phone and say the
alarm has gone off and they can see someone loading your
belongings into a van might someone turn up, eventually.

My old boss, and ex copper once told me that you shouldn't tell the police
that you can see people in the house ... they'll take ages to turn up.

They didnt when I did that, they showed up in force as fast as is
physically possible.

As he said "Why would anyone turn up if there's a chance of getting hurt."
?

Because that's their job, stupid.

Using that stupid line, no cops would ever show up to an armed robbery in
progress.

They do anyway.

Having read the thread I would like to add the following for the groups
discussion.
I agree with all who say change your insurance carrier as the discount is
far less the cost of an alarm contract.
However an alarm in a domestic property can be justified if it gives piece
of mind to the occupier and alerts neighbours to an alarm or frightens off
the robbers.
An alarm will never stop you being robbed if the thief want to take your
things they will find a way.
On a technical front, PIR detectors can last over 15yrs but deteriorate with
age becoming hyper-sensitive causing false alarms.
Dual tec devices start to fail mainly because the microwave antenna corrodes
(especially in damp or cold locations like garages) this causes the device
to go out of tune giving false alarms.
Modern analytical vibration sensors (if setup correctly) will detect forced
entry on uPVC windows before the glass is broken. Mine did and still do.
The Redcare system is a BT dedicated telephone line which is monitored 24/7
so the monitoring station will know if the line is cut before you do.
Modern dual-com monitoring systems use both the mobile phone network and
landline together so unless you jam the mobile signal and cut the phone line
at the same time a line fault will be sent to the monitoring station.
By law external bells must stop after a predetermined time (usually 20mins)
but this is set by local authorities.This said if the alarm is programmed to
auto reset as most are the bell will stop for 10secs then start again.
Monitoring stations will call the police but most forces and stations
operate a 3 strikes and you're out system.
ie. Within a set timeframe ;1st false call a warning 2nd a fine ,3rd a
bigger fine and no more monitoring (NB you will still have to pay for the
duration of the contract.)
From the above it becomes clear that to guarantee everything works a company
must regularly check the system and would not normally take on a DIY
install.
We all know this is not always the case but hopefully you can see why nobody
will touch a DIY system.

HTH
CJ

"Toby Sleigh" wrote in message
...

Hope someone can help.....