Neverwas, indeed, "inherited" legislation rarely gets reversed :-(


Re "Rogue Trader & Cowboy Builder" programs, they target real abuse.

The companies have already pheonixed more times than a politician
changes policy. They will just change the name to one already "bought
off the shelf". If banned from being a director they will simply get a
relative or employee to act as same.

Such companies screw both customers AND suppliers. Suppliers losing
£12-120k on a bad customer do not expand, do fire staff, do close more
marginal operations affecting market share & growth, do suffer lousy
credit costs re lost working capital, do get shagged by factoring
system requirements.

Rogue Central Heating Repairer.
- Walks in door - "You Need A New Boiler / System"
- "It is your muffler bearing - You Need A New Part"
- "Did Not Fix it - You Need Another New Part"
- Several hundred pound later...

Rogue FAKE Electrician.
- Walks in - Can't Find N-E short in back of socket
- Fits ANCIENT 4-module RCD when no RCD faulty
- Does NOT perform basic installation IR test or RCD test
- NO correct certification provided for SAFETY device change

Rogue Driveway Tarmac.
- Turns up - lays thin tarmac *directly over paving slabs*
- Collects money
- Present physically *rolls up tarmac like carpet*

Rogue Builder.
- Loft conversion without lintel (RSJ, UB) over the window
- Entire roof sags visibly distorting window

Rogue Builder.
- Sticks NON-waterproof loft insulation in a cavity wall
- Occupant left with damp & unmortgageable house
- Walls StrongBoy'd because Inner holding roof/floors
- Inner leaf (wall) has to be *demolished* to remove it

Rogue Builder.
- House left a ruin of cracks
- Person will have to walk away, losing everything
- Put on the Council Housing Waiting List

Rogue Driveway.
- Insufficient hardcore, insufficient MOT, insufficient tarmac
- We do work for motorways... urinating at the kerbside?

Such programs have shown outright, "stir the tools, take you to the
financial cleaners, leave you with a bill bigger than the original job
to redo the job right AND fix the damage they caused".


Case in point.
Many pensioners still "live under a duvet".
The house is heated when the relatives turn up, but freezing
thereafter. Worse often because the now superheated chimney sucks cold
air through the house overnight creating an ice-box the following day
& icy cold floors to really help that borderline blood clot that is
malingering in backside, behind the knee, in calves, feet.

Often they can afford Gas Central Heating but refuse flat out to have
it for 1) risk of flood from bad installation 2) risk of future bills
& maintenance 3) risk of regulation change requiring extensive &
expensive repairs (likely re Lobbyist become Cash-For-Legislation
become Stakeholder-Write-Gravy-Policy Society) 4) insurance schemes do
not cover replacement boilers 5) Boiler quality varies from atrocious-
mid-priced to excellent-only-a-bit-more BUT where the installer will
"I'm not installing a Vaillant, I want a Potterton PCB-Blow-Me-Bank-
Balance-Up-Quick" or "I'm not installing Tracpipe, I want 50 solder
joints to set fire to your curtains / wallpaper / carpet and keep me
in labour longer than most labour party leaders" (Gordon Brown throws
a hammer at the wall).

They do not trust the "Warmup" schemes because a) the invoiced figure
is inflated so requiring a high contribution b) they can not choose
the installer c) the work is often... bleedin awful because of truly
Hard-To-Install houses d) the cost of install is nothing compared to
repaired decoration & wiring from "man with a drill and cables not in
zones or cables in zones but braincell not present". The thing SHOULD
be a proper grant system where you choose the installer - such as one
listed under Age Concern. Likewise grants for internal insulation -
Proctor "Aerogel" is very good re thickness of just 35mm re "no room
by doors & stairs" but expensive so can't get economy of scale or
availability (catch-22).


My mother is one such pensioner, although not for much longer.
Makes do with a grossly undersized storage heater (not for much longer
re 2x Duoheat soon with spares too I might add) and crap insulation
(not for much longer re solid walls being insulated as I type badly
with Keraquick & expanding foam on my fingers, and at last the roof
has been done, but ceiling & loft door plaster wrecked so another
job). Other pensioners merely hide under a duvet and start to eat junk
food - donuts are a short trip to full diabetes from marginal age-
related, then self-service-hospital, then slumped-in-a-chair-in-a-care-
home.

So no, the programs have been targetting the right rip-off merchants.
The GOOD thing about GAS SAFE & PART P is that they give *legal means*
to go after them - before even with Trading Standards in the next room
it was all pretty useless.

Realise cowboys are always given a chance to say "ok, it's crap, I'll
do it again but properly".
Instead when the cameras come out they are seen wheel spinning off
down the road in Black Mitsubishi L200 Truck with "Pensioner Screwed
Tally" on the side or Black Audi S4.

BBC has shown nanny protectionism throughout its history, nothing new.
People must be told how to think. Fine if you want to also have the
job - and cost - of eventually wiping their backside.

On Thu, 24 Sep 2009 17:54:59 GMT, "neverwas" wrote:

I hope I'm wrong but I don't see any way out of the mess unless and
until we get an electorate which is better educated on such matters.
(So it looks to me a close call whether we'll get there before the sun
goes red giant.)

I'm fascinated by the idea that the electorate can influence *any* single issue.
Our much hyped and self-righteously promoted democracy is no more than a sham.

Andy C

Andy Cap wrote:
On Thu, 24 Sep 2009 17:54:59 GMT, "neverwas" wrote:

I hope I'm wrong but I don't see any way out of the mess unless and
until we get an electorate which is better educated on such matters.
(So it looks to me a close call whether we'll get there before the sun
goes red giant.)

I'm fascinated by the idea that the electorate can influence *any* single issue.
Our much hyped and self-righteously promoted democracy is no more than a sham.

Sadly there is much truth in that... The exception seems to be when the
electorate can organise themselves into groups and then apply pressure.
Alas the most common organisation tends to be a corporation, and then
the goals are not always in the best interest of the electorate at large.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In message , Usenet Nutter
writes
Talking ******** by telling people to stay away from Electrical work
or Plumbing work and get a pro in to do it . No ifs or buts ..Just do
not do it and of course,nobody there to contradict her.

Not as good as that stupid doctor roman on breakfast TV who said you
should only buy boiler parts from a CORGI registered CH supplier


--
geoff

In message
,
js.b1 writes
GAS - Gas work that is remunerated is illegal unless registered

DIY should do no work whatsoever unless competent for the EXTENT of
that work AND that includes right materials, right method, right
inspection and testing (combustion analyser for boilers) AND as much,
knowing what they don't know.

DIY conversely can just go and buy Viper, Tolleys and then a) define
what they know and b) what skills are sufficient. That may limit them
to turning on a gas appliance as a consumer. It might limit them to
capping an appliance off.

Pro should do not work whatsoever unless competent for the EXTENT of
that work - because Gas Safe has specific qualifications for each task
and is specific to the actual individual rather than the company.

I don't know abut Gas Safe, but CORGI was nothing to do with competence,
only safety.

.... and there are some ****ing incompetent registered fitters out there


--
geoff

geoff
wibbled on Thursday 24 September 2009 22:31

... and there are some ****ing incompetent registered fitters out there



Yes, I met one of them. He wasn't out to break the rules - he was just dim.

--
Tim Watts

This space intentionally left blank...

John Rumm wrote:
Andy Cap wrote:
On Thu, 24 Sep 2009 17:54:59 GMT, "neverwas"
wrote:
I hope I'm wrong but I don't see any way out of the mess unless and
until we get an electorate which is better educated on such matters.
(So it looks to me a close call whether we'll get there before the
sun goes red giant.)

I'm fascinated by the idea that the electorate can influence *any*
single issue. Our much hyped and self-righteously promoted democracy
is no more than a sham.

Sadly there is much truth in that... The exception seems to be when
the electorate can organise themselves into groups and then apply
pressure. Alas the most common organisation tends to be a
corporation, and then the goals are not always in the best interest
of the electorate at large.

It amazes me how pressure groups can influence Govmint. Green movement is a
prime eample, animal rights another.

The real danger however is the large multinationals who change peoples lives
by extensive PR.

Statins are a prime example, the pharmacutical giants have influenced the
medical profession to the extent that they prescribe billions of pounds
worth of a by & large unproven drug which has unpleasant side effects.

'Five a day', 'drink two litres of water a day' 'twenty units of alcohol a
week'. The list is endless and all based on bad science.

Don't even get me started on the passive smoking bollox. The multinational
pharmacutical giants are making more money from 'giving up' products than
the tobacco companies make from producing the product.



--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

wrote:
On 24 Sep,
Matty F wrote:

A "pro" may not do a good job.
In New Zealand we have a TV programme called Target where
professionals are asked to do all kinds of jobs while the owner is
away. There are hidden cameras.
Many professionals do not do a good job. Some wander around the house
& check the panty drawers etc. Some pinch money.

Did any urinate in the header tank? (as on the UK programme)

I happened to stumble across "cowboy builders" the other day on the
TV. Disgusting work by the original "builders" but the remedial work
in one case, although several orders of magnitude better than the
original, would not have been acceptable to my standards.

To put it into perspective you have to look at the percentage of 'cowboys'
compared to acceptable builders who do the job properly, then take into
account the idiot customers who went for the absolute cheapest quote they
could find, on the grounds that 'they have rights' and can always 'get
compensation'.

A TV show about a builder who did the job properly, on time & within budget
isn't going to get ratings. And that's what the completely unscrupulous TV
producers want above all else.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On Sep 25, 12:59 am, "bartc" wrote:
"Matty F" wrote in message

...

On Sep 25, 12:03 am, Usenet Nutter
wrote:
Talking ******** by telling people to stay away from Electrical work
or Plumbing work and get a pro in to do it . No ifs or buts ..Just do
not do it and of course,nobody there to contradict her.

A "pro" may not do a good job.
In New Zealand we have a TV programme called Target where
professionals are asked to do all kinds of jobs while the owner is
away. There are hidden cameras.
Many professionals do not do a good job.
Some wander around the house
& check the panty drawers etc. Some pinch money.

And this is actually broadcast on TV? With permission of the workman or not?

When the workman does something too embarrassing they blur out his
face. However the name of the company is shown. Invariably the company
says that "he no longer works there."
It might be sad if he loses his job. But almost always he has also
done a poor job as a tradesman. Perhaps he will improve or stop doing
inappropriate things in future. Or sell panties for a living.
I always assume that I am being videoed. I know I am, around home
(where I have 8 CCTV cameras to catch crooks) or at work.

I do use a professional for significant electrical work, and I won't
have gas in my house. I've called the fire brigade twice for a major
gas leak in the house next door.

On Sep 25, 10:14 am, wrote:
On 24 Sep,
Matty F wrote:

A "pro" may not do a good job.
In New Zealand we have a TV programme called Target where
professionals are asked to do all kinds of jobs while the owner is
away. There are hidden cameras.
Many professionals do not do a good job. Some wander around the house
& check the panty drawers etc. Some pinch money.

Did any urinate in the header tank? (as on the UK programme)

We tend not to have header tanks here. I've only ever seen one, and
only because I was fixing it after a tradesman had failed. I don't
understand the need for them, since there are better and cheaper ways
of getting the pressure right.

Yes Target has shown a tradesman (with face blurred out) urinating in
the shower several times, and many panty sniffers.

Steve wrote:

We are very rapidly approaching the slippery slope where people just will
not even be able to think for themselves. I recently had to put a plug on
an appliance for someone who did not know how. Amazingly, he told me that
it was covered in some lesson, "module"? he did at school but he had
forgotten it as it was not part of getting an exam result.

To be fair, I probably haven't put a plug on anything myself in the best
part of ten years. So anyone who's been at school recently could quite
conceivably never have to do so in the rest of their lives.

"Matty F" wrote in message
...

I won't have gas in my house.

That's a bit harsh surely? If I had the option of mains gas, I'd have it
doing heating/hot water in a shot. I've got propane cylinders doing the hob,
since I like cooking with it.

I've called the fire brigade twice for a major gas leak in the house next
door.

So you make sure the gas bits are all done well. It's not actually that
hard, and you can always check what an installer has done. Yes, it can be
screwed up, and there is potential for a big bang if you really try hard,
but mostly people are competent enough to not get near that.

Calum wrote:
Steve wrote:

We are very rapidly approaching the slippery slope where people just
will not even be able to think for themselves. I recently had to put a
plug on an appliance for someone who did not know how. Amazingly, he
told me that it was covered in some lesson, "module"? he did at school
but he had forgotten it as it was not part of getting an exam result.

To be fair, I probably haven't put a plug on anything myself in the best
part of ten years. So anyone who's been at school recently could quite
conceivably never have to do so in the rest of their lives.

The last time I bought one, it came with clear instructions.

On Sep 25, 1:50 pm, "Clive George" wrote:
"Matty F" wrote in message

...

I won't have gas in my house.

That's a bit harsh surely? If I had the option of mains gas, I'd have it
doing heating/hot water in a shot. I've got propane cylinders doing the hob,
since I like cooking with it.

I've called the fire brigade twice for a major gas leak in the house next
door.

So you make sure the gas bits are all done well. It's not actually that
hard, and you can always check what an installer has done. Yes, it can be
screwed up, and there is potential for a big bang if you really try hard,
but mostly people are competent enough to not get near that.

Contractors managed to dig through the gas main, twice.
The first time I had told the digger operator where the pipe was. When
he ignored me I phoned the fire brigade and told them to get ready. I
phoned all the gas companies, who refused to take responsibility. An
hour later all the neighbours and I phoned the fire brigade because of
the huge smell of gas and the loud hissing noise.

"Matty F" wrote in message
...
On Sep 25, 1:50 pm, "Clive George" wrote:
"Matty F" wrote in message

...

I won't have gas in my house.

That's a bit harsh surely? If I had the option of mains gas, I'd have it
doing heating/hot water in a shot. I've got propane cylinders doing the
hob,
since I like cooking with it.

I've called the fire brigade twice for a major gas leak in the house
next
door.

So you make sure the gas bits are all done well. It's not actually that
hard, and you can always check what an installer has done. Yes, it can be
screwed up, and there is potential for a big bang if you really try hard,
but mostly people are competent enough to not get near that.

Contractors managed to dig through the gas main, twice.
The first time I had told the digger operator where the pipe was. When
he ignored me I phoned the fire brigade and told them to get ready. I
phoned all the gas companies, who refused to take responsibility. An
hour later all the neighbours and I phoned the fire brigade because of
the huge smell of gas and the loud hissing noise.

Tee hee :-) That's not really a reason to avoid gas in your own home though.

On Sep 25, 3:15 pm, "Clive George" wrote:
"Matty F" wrote in message

Contractors managed to dig through the gas main, twice.

Tee hee :-) That's not really a reason to avoid gas in your own home though.

It's not economic to use mains gas in New Zealand. There may be a
slight saving over electric power but the monthly gas supply charge
more than wipes out any saving. In addition if I *don't* have an
electric water heater that the power company can turn off at peak
times, I will be charged more for all the power that I do use.
My annual power bill is around NZ$1500 (GPB 670). That includes
electric heating and heating water, and running loads of computers,
and cooking roast dinners etc. Hmm, I think I will have roast pork
tonight

"Matty F" wrote in message
...
On Sep 25, 3:15 pm, "Clive George" wrote:
"Matty F" wrote in message

Contractors managed to dig through the gas main, twice.

Tee hee :-) That's not really a reason to avoid gas in your own home
though.

It's not economic to use mains gas in New Zealand. There may be a
slight saving over electric power but the monthly gas supply charge
more than wipes out any saving. In addition if I *don't* have an
electric water heater that the power company can turn off at peak
times, I will be charged more for all the power that I do use.
My annual power bill is around NZ$1500 (GPB 670). That includes
electric heating and heating water, and running loads of computers,
and cooking roast dinners etc. Hmm, I think I will have roast pork
tonight

Ah, you'll have to forgive me for assumptions made based on the NG titles
:-)

(over here, if you've got access to gas, the numbers are significantly in
favour of gas. And the electric competition is generally storage heaters,
which are **** IME - I'd rather have solid fuel, and was very glad to take
the lumps off the wall.)

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
om...

Statins are a prime example, the pharmacutical giants have influenced the
medical profession to the extent that they prescribe billions of pounds
worth of a by & large unproven drug which has unpleasant side effects.

I have been taken statins for years and the only (side)-effect I've noticed
is a dramatic lowering of my cholesterol levels.

Ian

On Sep 25, 1:35*am, Matty F wrote:
On Sep 25, 10:14 am, wrote:

On 24 Sep,
* * *Matty F wrote:

A "pro" may not do a good job.
In New Zealand we have a TV programme called Target where
professionals are asked to do all kinds of jobs while the owner is
away. There are hidden cameras.
Many professionals do not do a good job. Some wander around the house
& check the panty drawers etc. Some pinch money.

Did any urinate in the header tank? (as on the UK programme)

We tend not to have header tanks here. I've only ever seen one, and
only because I was fixing it after a tradesman had failed. I don't
understand the need for them, since there are better and cheaper ways
of getting the pressure right.

They're not about getting the pressure right.

MBQ

On Sep 25, 7:39 pm, "Man at B&Q" wrote:
On Sep 25, 1:35 am, Matty F wrote:

We tend not to have header tanks here. I've only ever seen one, and
only because I was fixing it after a tradesman had failed. I don't
understand the need for them, since there are better and cheaper ways
of getting the pressure right.

They're not about getting the pressure right.

What are they for? Breeding mosquitoes and cockroaches and rats?
Putting lots of weight on the ceiling so it collapses?

"Ian F." wrote in message
...
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
om...

Statins are a prime example, the pharmacutical giants have influenced the
medical profession to the extent that they prescribe billions of pounds
worth of a by & large unproven drug which has unpleasant side effects.

I have been taken statins for years and the only (side)-effect I've
noticed is a dramatic lowering of my cholesterol levels.

Not everyone has been so lucky, Ian!

On Thu, 24 Sep 2009 23:58:51 GMT, The Medway Handyman wrote:

'Five a day', 'drink two litres of water a day' 'twenty units of alcohol a
week'. The list is endless and all based on bad science.

Well, got one of those right: Last Night of the Proms, 8 pint cans of
Stella, 'failed' as managed only 7, that was 19.88 units, so week's worth
and job done!
--
Peter.
The head of a pin will hold more angels if
it's been flattened with an angel-grinder.

"Matty F" wrote in message
...
On Sep 25, 7:39 pm, "Man at B&Q" wrote:
On Sep 25, 1:35 am, Matty F wrote:

We tend not to have header tanks here. I've only ever seen one, and
only because I was fixing it after a tradesman had failed. I don't
understand the need for them, since there are better and cheaper ways
of getting the pressure right.

They're not about getting the pressure right.

What are they for? Breeding mosquitoes and cockroaches and rats?
Putting lots of weight on the ceiling so it collapses?

We have a header tank, although we don't need it now. It only serves the
downstairs bathroom. If the main water supply gets turned off, we still
have water. So, it has its uses

"Matty F" wrote in message
...
On Sep 25, 7:39 pm, "Man at B&Q" wrote:
On Sep 25, 1:35 am, Matty F wrote:

We tend not to have header tanks here. I've only ever seen one, and
only because I was fixing it after a tradesman had failed. I don't
understand the need for them, since there are better and cheaper ways
of getting the pressure right.

They're not about getting the pressure right.

What are they for? Breeding mosquitoes and cockroaches and rats?
Putting lots of weight on the ceiling so it collapses?

Like anything else when water is heated it expands. The header tank acts
as a cheap and cheerful safety valve allowing any excess volume of water
to feed back into the tank rather than cause leaks at the joints through
increased pressure.


michael adams

In article
,
Matty F wrote:
Did any urinate in the header tank? (as on the UK programme)

We tend not to have header tanks here. I've only ever seen one, and
only because I was fixing it after a tradesman had failed. I don't
understand the need for them, since there are better and cheaper ways
of getting the pressure right.

Fine if you have adequate flow and pressure coming into your house. Here I
don't. So it acts like a reservoir for things like fast filling of a bath.
It also gives you a store of water for times when the supply is cut off
for maintenance purposes.

--
*Never underestimate the power of very stupid people in large groups *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article
,
Matty F wrote:
They're not about getting the pressure right.

What are they for? Breeding mosquitoes and cockroaches and rats?

They should be covered properly.

Putting lots of weight on the ceiling so it collapses?

Do you use matchsticks for joists?

--
*I used up all my sick days so I called in dead

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thu, 24 Sep 2009 21:59:56 -0400, S Viemeister
wrote:

Calum wrote:
Steve wrote:

We are very rapidly approaching the slippery slope where people just
will not even be able to think for themselves. I recently had to put a
plug on an appliance for someone who did not know how. Amazingly, he
told me that it was covered in some lesson, "module"? he did at school
but he had forgotten it as it was not part of getting an exam result.

To be fair, I probably haven't put a plug on anything myself in the best
part of ten years. So anyone who's been at school recently could quite
conceivably never have to do so in the rest of their lives.

The last time I bought one, it came with clear instructions.

All small appliances that run on mains electricity have to be supplied
with a plug, and include instructions for replacing the plug.

Surprisingly it can be a foreign plug and the flex can be made to a
foreign (non - EU, typically US) standard, perhaps with the proviso
that they include instructions for changing the flex

Derek

On Fri, 25 Sep 2009 01:17:32 -0700 (PDT), Matty F
wrote:

On Sep 25, 7:39 pm, "Man at B&Q" wrote:
On Sep 25, 1:35 am, Matty F wrote:

We tend not to have header tanks here. I've only ever seen one, and
only because I was fixing it after a tradesman had failed. I don't
understand the need for them, since there are better and cheaper ways
of getting the pressure right.

They're not about getting the pressure right.

What are they for? Breeding mosquitoes and cockroaches and rats?
Putting lots of weight on the ceiling so it collapses?

Originally they were part and parcel of solid fuel (typically
fireback) boilers in a hot water system.

The fire/boiler held a big reservoirlot of stored heat. For safe
operation of the boiler to avoid a steam explosion a big reservoir of
stored cold water was required.

I've done away with ours, if I regret it a bit. The supply incoming to
the 1976 house is too feeble.

Derek

On Fri, 25 Sep 2009 02:50:16 +0100, "Clive George"
wrote:

"Matty F" wrote in message
...

I won't have gas in my house.

That's a bit harsh surely? If I had the option of mains gas, I'd have it
doing heating/hot water in a shot. I've got propane cylinders doing the hob,
since I like cooking with it.

I've called the fire brigade twice for a major gas leak in the house next
door.

So you make sure the gas bits are all done well. It's not actually that
hard, and you can always check what an installer has done. Yes, it can be
screwed up, and there is potential for a big bang if you really try hard,
but mostly people are competent enough to not get near that.


We smelled gas in our cul - de - sac for about 15 years and reported
every instance.

It wasn't until a neighbour demolished a wall to build an extension he
found a solder ring pipe joint buried in the wall that had never been
soldered when the house was built in 1976, just pushed together.

Gas fitting was originally done by a professional.

Derek

"Derek Geldard" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 25 Sep 2009 01:17:32 -0700 (PDT), Matty F
wrote:

On Sep 25, 7:39 pm, "Man at B&Q" wrote:
On Sep 25, 1:35 am, Matty F wrote:

We tend not to have header tanks here. I've only ever seen one, and
only because I was fixing it after a tradesman had failed. I don't
understand the need for them, since there are better and cheaper ways
of getting the pressure right.

They're not about getting the pressure right.

What are they for? Breeding mosquitoes and cockroaches and rats?
Putting lots of weight on the ceiling so it collapses?

Originally they were part and parcel of solid fuel (typically
fireback) boilers in a hot water system.

The fire/boiler held a big reservoirlot of stored heat. For safe
operation of the boiler to avoid a steam explosion a big reservoir of
stored cold water was required.

I've done away with ours, if I regret it a bit. The supply incoming to
the 1976 house is too feeble.

Derek


The water in all central heating systems is circulated by a pump. It has nothing
to do with mains pressure. In open systems the water in the radiators, central heating
boiler, and header tank is the same water constantly circulating around. (As it is in
sealed systems which have integral expansion tanks) When it expands it goes back into
the header tank and when it cools down its fed from the header tank. Any evaporation
from the header tank is compenasted for by a trickle from a ball valve. The header
tank should also be fitted with an overflow.

The water in the hot water system i.e the hot taps is totally separate.


michael adams

....


, and is just circulated repeatedly around your CH system.

The water in the central heating system is totally separate. It can either be a sealed
system with an overflow tank as part of the
system, or initially filled from the main including the header tank.

On Thu, 24 Sep 2009 17:35:15 -0700 (PDT), Matty F
wrote:

On Sep 25, 10:14 am, wrote:
On 24 Sep,
Matty F wrote:

A "pro" may not do a good job.
In New Zealand we have a TV programme called Target where
professionals are asked to do all kinds of jobs while the owner is
away. There are hidden cameras.
Many professionals do not do a good job. Some wander around the house
& check the panty drawers etc. Some pinch money.

Did any urinate in the header tank? (as on the UK programme)

We tend not to have header tanks here. I've only ever seen one, and
only because I was fixing it after a tradesman had failed. I don't
understand the need for them, since there are better and cheaper ways
of getting the pressure right.

I wish we'd had header tanks when we had no mains water for 10 days a
couple of years ago.

--
(\__/) M.
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posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.
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On Fri, 25 Sep 2009 01:44:02 +0100, Calum
wrote:

Steve wrote:

We are very rapidly approaching the slippery slope where people just will
not even be able to think for themselves. I recently had to put a plug on
an appliance for someone who did not know how. Amazingly, he told me that
it was covered in some lesson, "module"? he did at school but he had
forgotten it as it was not part of getting an exam result.

To be fair, I probably haven't put a plug on anything myself in the best
part of ten years. So anyone who's been at school recently could quite
conceivably never have to do so in the rest of their lives.

Appliances have to be supplied with a plug fitted nowadays IIRC.
--
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(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking most articles
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[Reply-to address valid until it is spammed.]

On Sep 25, 8:40 pm, "michael adams" wrote:
"Matty F" wrote in message

...

On Sep 25, 7:39 pm, "Man at B&Q" wrote:
On Sep 25, 1:35 am, Matty F wrote:

We tend not to have header tanks here. I've only ever seen one, and
only because I was fixing it after a tradesman had failed. I don't
understand the need for them, since there are better and cheaper ways
of getting the pressure right.

They're not about getting the pressure right.

What are they for? Breeding mosquitoes and cockroaches and rats?
Putting lots of weight on the ceiling so it collapses?

Like anything else when water is heated it expands. The header tank acts
as a cheap and cheerful safety valve allowing any excess volume of water
to feed back into the tank rather than cause leaks at the joints through
increased pressure.

OK, seems reasonable. Around here, older installations have a pressure
reducing valve and a pipe out the roof. Modern ones have two valves
and waste a bit of water when it heats up.

On Sep 25, 9:05 pm, Derek Geldard wrote:
On Fri, 25 Sep 2009 01:17:32 -0700 (PDT), Matty F

wrote:
On Sep 25, 7:39 pm, "Man at B&Q" wrote:
On Sep 25, 1:35 am, Matty F wrote:

We tend not to have header tanks here. I've only ever seen one, and
only because I was fixing it after a tradesman had failed. I don't
understand the need for them, since there are better and cheaper ways
of getting the pressure right.

They're not about getting the pressure right.

What are they for? Breeding mosquitoes and cockroaches and rats?
Putting lots of weight on the ceiling so it collapses?

Originally they were part and parcel of solid fuel (typically
fireback) boilers in a hot water system.

The fire/boiler held a big reservoirlot of stored heat. For safe
operation of the boiler to avoid a steam explosion a big reservoir of
stored cold water was required.

I've done away with ours, if I regret it a bit. The supply incoming to
the 1976 house is too feeble.

That explains it. The lady with the header tank had a wetback fire. It
went rusty years ago so was not used. She phoned me to say there was
water coming down from the ceiling. I told her to turn the water off
at the road. When I got there, the cistern washer was stuffed, and the
overflow pipe had a leak.

"michael adams" wrote in message
...

"Derek Geldard" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 25 Sep 2009 01:17:32 -0700 (PDT), Matty F
wrote:

On Sep 25, 7:39 pm, "Man at B&Q" wrote:
On Sep 25, 1:35 am, Matty F wrote:

We tend not to have header tanks here. I've only ever seen one, and
only because I was fixing it after a tradesman had failed. I don't
understand the need for them, since there are better and cheaper ways
of getting the pressure right.

They're not about getting the pressure right.

What are they for? Breeding mosquitoes and cockroaches and rats?
Putting lots of weight on the ceiling so it collapses?

Originally they were part and parcel of solid fuel (typically
fireback) boilers in a hot water system.

The fire/boiler held a big reservoirlot of stored heat. For safe
operation of the boiler to avoid a steam explosion a big reservoir of
stored cold water was required.

I've done away with ours, if I regret it a bit. The supply incoming to
the 1976 house is too feeble.

Derek



"michael adams" wrote in message
...


The water in all central heating systems is circulated by a pump.

snipped similar irrelevant gibberish)

Er who was talking about central heating ?

(another ten minutes of my life wasted that I'll never get back)

Anyway, carry on chaps !



michael adams

....

Surprisingly it can be a foreign plug and the flex can be made to a
foreign (non - EU, typically US) standard, perhaps with the proviso
that they include instructions for changing the flex


Is that now true for vendors in the UK please?

I know that there was consultation in 2006-07 on some changes to the
regulations. And also that some non-UK companies (eg Pixmania) ship
goods with French plugs and a simple plug-in adapter (rather than a
convertor). But they are selling from outside the UK.

For vendors in the UK the legislation used to require for ordinary stuff
(leaving stuff wired in like cookers) either a standard UK plug or "a
non-UK plug complying with the safety provisions of the International
Electrotechnical Commission standard IEC 884-1 (1987) and fitted with a
conversion plug of a type approved for use with such a non-UK plug which
encloses the fitted non-UK plug and can only be removed by the use of a
tool" (to quote the ex. note to the original Plugs and Sockets etc.
(Safety) Regulations 1994). And that's what trading standards seem
still to work to.

But I may have misunderstood and/or missed new regulations.


--
R

On Thu, 24 Sep 2009 17:20:26 GMT, "bartc" wrote:


"Derek Geldard" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 24 Sep 2009 12:59:15 GMT, "bartc" wrote:


You of course have never done anything wrong, embarrassing or inappropriate,

Some wander around the house & check the panty drawers etc. Some pinch money.

I haven't done that, have you ?

but I doubt whether the best course of action when caught out is to be shown
on national TV as 'entertainment' rather than be dealt with privately or
involving the law.

People are capable of moving on but being in TV or youtube archives for
evermore makes that more difficult.

IMO he should "move on" to a different job where being trustworthy is
not a requirement like shovelling **** from one ****house to another,
thus discouraging other people with similar inclinations.

Since it appears he's probably self employed publicity is the only
protection the public has.

Derek

Matty F writes:

On Sep 25, 12:03 am, Usenet Nutter
wrote:
Talking ******** by telling people to stay away from Electrical work
or Plumbing work and get a pro in to do it . No ifs or buts ..Just do
not do it and of course,nobody there to contradict her.

A "pro" may not do a good job.
In New Zealand we have a TV programme called Target where
professionals are asked to do all kinds of jobs while the owner is
away. There are hidden cameras.
Many professionals do not do a good job. Some wander around the house
& check the panty drawers etc. Some pinch money.

We had a programme like that one of the guys peed in the sink; this was
played on in an episode of the I.T. Crowd.

Graham

On Fri, 25 Sep 2009 10:06:35 GMT, "neverwas"
wrote:

Surprisingly it can be a foreign plug and the flex can be made to a
foreign (non - EU, typically US) standard, perhaps with the proviso
that they include instructions for changing the flex


Is that now true for vendors in the UK please?

I know that there was consultation in 2006-07 on some changes to the
regulations. And also that some non-UK companies (eg Pixmania) ship
goods with French plugs and a simple plug-in adapter (rather than a
convertor). But they are selling from outside the UK.

For vendors in the UK the legislation used to require for ordinary stuff
(leaving stuff wired in like cookers) either a standard UK plug or "a
non-UK plug complying with the safety provisions of the International
Electrotechnical Commission standard IEC 884-1 (1987) and fitted with a
conversion plug of a type approved for use with such a non-UK plug which
encloses the fitted non-UK plug and can only be removed by the use of a
tool" (to quote the ex. note to the original Plugs and Sockets etc.
(Safety) Regulations 1994). And that's what trading standards seem
still to work to.

It would appear not. :-((


But I may have misunderstood and/or missed new regulations.

I am a qualified electrical engineer, and got on my high horse with
West Yorkshire Trading Standards when my daughters GHD hair
straighteners blew up, burnt her, and burnt a hole in the carpet when
she dropped them. It turned out this had happened several times within
her small circle of friends always caused by the US standard flex
hardening and cracking at the point where it entered the handle.

West Yorkshire Trading standards sent a nice lady (But only an
unqualified Local Government Officer lay lady {lay lady lay ?}) to
the house see me. It became clear she was only interested in
protecting GHD against counterfeit products. She took away the
cremated remains of the straighteners saying *only* GHD could say
whether they were counterfeit or not. They weren't, and GHD replaced
them as a gesture but unfortunately the "evidence" had been destroyed
in the process of examination. 8-((

The ruling above plugs and flexes came from her. Unfortunately
trading standards could not / would not produce anyone qualified to
discuss this with me.

A hint of a reference to this problem here.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20061018130549AAGhRnb


One wonders why West Yorkshire Trading Standards were so keen to avoid
addressing the electrical safety issues. Gloucestershire Trading
Standards had no such reticence.

GHD straighteners was / is a local multi million pound business. ;-)

Derek

On Sep 25, 10:47 pm, (G Bell) wrote:
Matty F writes:
On Sep 25, 12:03 am, Usenet Nutter
wrote:
Talking ******** by telling people to stay away from Electrical work
or Plumbing work and get a pro in to do it . No ifs or buts ..Just do
not do it and of course,nobody there to contradict her.
A "pro" may not do a good job.
In New Zealand we have a TV programme called Target where
professionals are asked to do all kinds of jobs while the owner is
away. There are hidden cameras.
Many professionals do not do a good job. Some wander around the house
& check the panty drawers etc. Some pinch money.

We had a programme like that one of the guys peed in the sink; this was
played on in an episode of the I.T. Crowd.

I think Target has had a big effect on the way tradesmen work in NZ.
They often look around for cameras and sometimes find them.

Another TV channel did a spoof Target on Target programme, where
cameras were put in place before the "real" Target camera installers
arrived.
I have never seen such disgusting things done on TV!