For flooring an extension to my Victorian house I am planning to use
reclaimed victorian floorboard (with suitable insulation under). ebay
item 220474833588 is an example.

However, an alternative is "resawn floorboards" where the supplier has
sawn up victorian joists to make 'new' old floorboards. ebay item
130325590872 is an example.

Is there anything to aware of with such resawn boards? is the joist
wood likely to be softer for example, or to have more knots in it?

Robert

RobertL wrote:
For flooring an extension to my Victorian house I am planning to use
reclaimed victorian floorboard (with suitable insulation under). ebay
item 220474833588 is an example.

However, an alternative is "resawn floorboards" where the supplier has
sawn up victorian joists to make 'new' old floorboards. ebay item
130325590872 is an example.

Is there anything to aware of with such resawn boards? is the joist
wood likely to be softer for example, or to have more knots in it?

Robert
taking old pine crap and reusing it makes it still old pine crap IMHO.

The victorians used pine because they hadn't invented chipboard or MDF.

why not get some decent wood in there if you are going to all that
trouble? Elm maybe..now that IS worth reclaiming.

Or how about brand new oak?

Its not that expensive..

RobertL wrote:
For flooring an extension to my Victorian house I am planning to use
reclaimed victorian floorboard (with suitable insulation under). ebay
item 220474833588 is an example.


However, an alternative is "resawn floorboards" where the supplier has
sawn up victorian joists to make 'new' old floorboards. ebay item
130325590872 is an example.

This reminds me of European Whitewood aka Xmas tree. The dark ring round
the knots, and the fluffy end grain suggest some kind of spruce, but the
12" width is mighty unusual. From the photos I'd say it wouldn't be a
particularly hard wearing material.
A bit of a gamble given that you don't know too much about the timber.
The terms "Quebec Pine" and "seasoned" really don't mean anything. 100
year old timber is just as likely to distort as the modern stuff if it's
encountering central heating for the first time.


Is there anything to aware of with such resawn boards? is the joist
wood likely to be softer for example, or to have more knots in it?

Robert

Stuart Noble wrote:
RobertL wrote:
For flooring an extension to my Victorian house I am planning to use
reclaimed victorian floorboard (with suitable insulation under). ebay
item 220474833588 is an example.


However, an alternative is "resawn floorboards" where the supplier has
sawn up victorian joists to make 'new' old floorboards. ebay item
130325590872 is an example.

This reminds me of European Whitewood aka Xmas tree. The dark ring round
the knots, and the fluffy end grain suggest some kind of spruce, but the
12" width is mighty unusual. From the photos I'd say it wouldn't be a
particularly hard wearing material.
A bit of a gamble given that you don't know too much about the timber.
The terms "Quebec Pine" and "seasoned" really don't mean anything. 100
year old timber is just as likely to distort as the modern stuff if it's
encountering central heating for the first time.


absolutely. silk purses and sows ears..

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Stuart Noble wrote:
RobertL wrote:
For flooring an extension to my Victorian house I am planning to use
reclaimed victorian floorboard (with suitable insulation under). ebay
item 220474833588 is an example.


However, an alternative is "resawn floorboards" where the supplier has
sawn up victorian joists to make 'new' old floorboards. ebay item
130325590872 is an example.

This reminds me of European Whitewood aka Xmas tree. The dark ring
round the knots, and the fluffy end grain suggest some kind of spruce,
but the 12" width is mighty unusual. From the photos I'd say it
wouldn't be a particularly hard wearing material.
A bit of a gamble given that you don't know too much about the timber.
The terms "Quebec Pine" and "seasoned" really don't mean anything. 100
year old timber is just as likely to distort as the modern stuff if
it's encountering central heating for the first time.


absolutely. silk purses and sows ears..

Well, that's the OP's decision. I prefer the look of pine floors,
especially in smaller houses, where hardwoods can seem a little
ostentatious (like stone lions).

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Is there anything to aware of with such resawn boards? is the joist
wood likely to be softer for example, or to have more knots in it?

Robert

taking old pine crap and reusing it makes it still old pine crap IMHO.

Decent pine is an excellent wood for construction. What is called pine
these days is nothing like the stuff the Victorians used.

The victorians used pine because they hadn't invented chipboard or MDF.

Strange how many of their buildings are still standing then. But perhaps
you think a house using those will last as long?

why not get some decent wood in there if you are going to all that
trouble? Elm maybe..now that IS worth reclaiming.

Or how about brand new oak?

Its not that expensive..

No? And green oak will move every each way. Reclaimed pine won't.

--
*The colder the X-ray table, the more of your body is required on it *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 9 Sep, 15:40, RobertL wrote:
For flooring an extension to my Victorian house I am planning to use
reclaimed victorian floorboard (with suitable *insulation under). ebay
item 220474833588 is an example.

However, an alternative is "resawn floorboards" where the supplier has
sawn up victorian joists to make 'new' old floorboards. * * ebay item
130325590872 is an example.

*Is there anything to aware of with such resawn boards? *is the joist
wood likely to be softer for example, or to have more knots in it?

Robert

Robert
I would be very very wary of cut up joists as floor boards as the
defects allowed in a joist are quite likely to be unacceptable in a
floor board
If you must have second hand floor boards of pine (ensure Scots pine -
Pinus sylvestris) then take your time and get decent pine boards
Chris

In article
,
RobertL wrote:
For flooring an extension to my Victorian house I am planning to use
reclaimed victorian floorboard (with suitable insulation under). ebay
item 220474833588 is an example.

However, an alternative is "resawn floorboards" where the supplier has
sawn up victorian joists to make 'new' old floorboards. ebay item
130325590872 is an example.

Is there anything to aware of with such resawn boards? is the joist
wood likely to be softer for example, or to have more knots in it?

Likely if anything to be the very best timber of its type.

--
*How come you never hear about gruntled employees? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sep 9, 3:40*pm, RobertL wrote:
For flooring an extension to my Victorian house I am planning to use
reclaimed victorian floorboard (with suitable *insulation under). ebay
item 220474833588 is an example.

However, an alternative is "resawn floorboards" where the supplier has
sawn up victorian joists to make 'new' old floorboards. * * ebay item
130325590872 is an example.

*Is there anything to aware of with such resawn boards? *is the joist
wood likely to be softer for example, or to have more knots in it?

Robert

Its hard to go seriously wrong with floorboards. You can use all sorts
of horrible stuff for loft floors etc. At worst you might encounter a
defect somewhere requiring a nogging underneath, or a cut to remove
it. Just a case of dimensions really, including min length.


NT

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Is there anything to aware of with such resawn boards? is the joist
wood likely to be softer for example, or to have more knots in it?

Robert

taking old pine crap and reusing it makes it still old pine crap IMHO.

Decent pine is an excellent wood for construction. What is called pine
these days is nothing like the stuff the Victorians used.

The victorians used pine because they hadn't invented chipboard or MDF.

Strange how many of their buildings are still standing then.


Compared with how many have been trashed as basically BER? Not really.


But perhaps
you think a house using those will last as long?


of course. MDF and chipoard wont fall to pieces if it doesn't get damp.




why not get some decent wood in there if you are going to all that
trouble? Elm maybe..now that IS worth reclaiming.

Or how about brand new oak?

Its not that expensive..

No? And green oak will move every each way. Reclaimed pine won't.

who said anything about *green* oak?

Reclaimed pine WILL.

If it suffers humidity changes.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article
,
RobertL wrote:
For flooring an extension to my Victorian house I am planning to use
reclaimed victorian floorboard (with suitable insulation under). ebay
item 220474833588 is an example.

However, an alternative is "resawn floorboards" where the supplier has
sawn up victorian joists to make 'new' old floorboards. ebay item
130325590872 is an example.

Is there anything to aware of with such resawn boards? is the joist
wood likely to be softer for example, or to have more knots in it?

Likely if anything to be the very best timber of its type.

Bwahahah!


Best material is reserved for planed, not rough sawn. No building regs
in victorian times either. If it didn't fall down, it sold.

The only thing you can say, is that if it hadn't fallen down, it wasn't
total rubbish.

On 9 Sep, 15:40, RobertL wrote:
For flooring an extension to my Victorian house I am planning to use
reclaimed victorian floorboard (with suitable *insulation under). ebay
item 220474833588 is an example.

However, an alternative is "resawn floorboards" where the supplier has
sawn up victorian joists to make 'new' old floorboards. * * ebay item
130325590872 is an example.

*Is there anything to aware of with such resawn boards? *is the joist
wood likely to be softer for example, or to have more knots in it?

Robert

This is quite a difficult one to call as the pictures do show wood
that is not heavily knotted, is quite straight and tight grained, but
is also from trees of quite small diameter such that it will have a
tendency to cup. Add that it is not T&G and I think you might have
problems with it as the t &g do tend to hold the wood flat - you nail
through the tongue.

If you do go for it I would recommend finding first a joiner with a
spindle moulder who is prepared to cut the tongues and grooves. That
may not be too easy on second hand wood as it may contain nails.

Rob

On Sep 9, 6:49*pm, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

Likely if anything to be the very best timber of its type.

I have 30 sq m of resawn pitch pine floorboards, sawn from beams, in
storage waiting to go into my master bedroom once the plaeterer has
finished. They came from an eBy seller in E. Yorks. The timber is in
excellent condition, with no noticeable defects. A couple of the
longer boards have rectangular holes towards the ends, where the cut
went across a mortise ;-)

The advantage of re-sawn boards is that you get good quality 100-year-
old well-seasoned timber, but newly cut and intact tongues and
grooves.

Regards
Richard

On Sep 9, 9:16*pm, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article
,
* *RobertL wrote:
For flooring an extension to my Victorian house I am planning to use
reclaimed victorian floorboard (with suitable *insulation under). ebay
item 220474833588 is an example.

However, an alternative is "resawn floorboards" where the supplier has
sawn up victorian joists to make 'new' old floorboards. * * ebay item
130325590872 is an example.

*Is there anything to aware of with such resawn boards? *is the joist
wood likely to be softer for example, or to have more knots in it?

Likely if anything to be the very best timber of its type.

Bwahahah!

Best material is reserved for planed, not rough sawn. No building regs
in victorian times either. If it didn't fall down, it sold.

The only thing you can say, is that if it hadn't fallen down, it wasn't
total rubbish.


There were 2 types of housing built in the 1800s: quality houses and
cheap shacks. The latter are as good as all gone, what's left is
almost entirely the quality builds.


NT

NT wrote:
On Sep 9, 9:16 pm, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article
,
RobertL wrote:
For flooring an extension to my Victorian house I am planning to use
reclaimed victorian floorboard (with suitable insulation under). ebay
item 220474833588 is an example.
However, an alternative is "resawn floorboards" where the supplier has
sawn up victorian joists to make 'new' old floorboards. ebay item
130325590872 is an example.
Is there anything to aware of with such resawn boards? is the joist
wood likely to be softer for example, or to have more knots in it?
Likely if anything to be the very best timber of its type.
Bwahahah!

Best material is reserved for planed, not rough sawn. No building regs
in victorian times either. If it didn't fall down, it sold.

The only thing you can say, is that if it hadn't fallen down, it wasn't
total rubbish.


There were 2 types of housing built in the 1800s: quality houses and
cheap shacks. The latter are as good as all gone, what's left is
almost entirely the quality builds.


NT
Proof by assertion?

ah..

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Or how about brand new oak?

Its not that expensive..

No? And green oak will move every each way. Reclaimed pine won't.

who said anything about *green* oak?

If it is brand new it will be? Or are you saying well seasoned oak is
cheap?

--
*You are validating my inherent mistrust of strangers

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Likely if anything to be the very best timber of its type.

Bwahahah!


Best material is reserved for planed, not rough sawn. No building regs
in victorian times either. If it didn't fall down, it sold.

Structural timber has always been chosen to be knot free. Not so
floorboards.

And it's reasonable to assume any Victorian joists still around came from
somewhere that didn't fall down - or at least not due to joists failing.

I'm wondering if you have any experience of this sort of timber?

The only thing you can say, is that if it hadn't fallen down, it wasn't
total rubbish.

--
*Remember, no-one is listening until you fart.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article
,
geraldthehamster wrote:
Likely if anything to be the very best timber of its type.

I have 30 sq m of resawn pitch pine floorboards, sawn from beams, in
storage waiting to go into my master bedroom once the plaeterer has
finished. They came from an eBy seller in E. Yorks. The timber is in
excellent condition, with no noticeable defects. A couple of the
longer boards have rectangular holes towards the ends, where the cut
went across a mortise ;-)

;-) Indeed.

The advantage of re-sawn boards is that you get good quality 100-year-
old well-seasoned timber, but newly cut and intact tongues and
grooves.

You'd be hard pressed to find timber of that quality at affordable prices
new. If at all.
But most Victorian floorboards weren't tongue and groove. Too much
movement in the average Victorian house. ;-)

--
*Why is it called tourist season if we can't shoot at them?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

NT wrote:
On Sep 9, 9:16 pm, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article
,
RobertL wrote:
For flooring an extension to my Victorian house I am planning to use
reclaimed victorian floorboard (with suitable insulation under). ebay
item 220474833588 is an example.
However, an alternative is "resawn floorboards" where the supplier has
sawn up victorian joists to make 'new' old floorboards. ebay item
130325590872 is an example.
Is there anything to aware of with such resawn boards? is the joist
wood likely to be softer for example, or to have more knots in it?
Likely if anything to be the very best timber of its type.
Bwahahah!

Best material is reserved for planed, not rough sawn. No building regs
in victorian times either. If it didn't fall down, it sold.

The only thing you can say, is that if it hadn't fallen down, it wasn't
total rubbish.


There were 2 types of housing built in the 1800s: quality houses and
cheap shacks. The latter are as good as all gone, what's left is
almost entirely the quality builds.


Not so sure. I lived in a cheap 1890 terrace in E London for a while. I
reckon it'll outstay the mid-50s bomb site semi infills.

Problems I've seen have tended to relate to foundations. Otherwise, if
it's streets that get cleared for example, demolition can have little to
do with quality of construction - more lack of maintenance (private
landlords maybe) or planning (road widening, 'slum' clearance).

Rob

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Or how about brand new oak?
Its not that expensive..
No? And green oak will move every each way. Reclaimed pine won't.

who said anything about *green* oak?

If it is brand new it will be? Or are you saying well seasoned oak is
cheap?

its not that expensive.

I picked up enough to floor a room, if it had been flooring rather than
dooring, for a couple of hundred. Nice new seasoned european ok..

Recycled victoriana is a con game.

Their cast iron was good. Their wood was not, unless it was elm or somesuch.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Likely if anything to be the very best timber of its type.

Bwahahah!


Best material is reserved for planed, not rough sawn. No building regs
in victorian times either. If it didn't fall down, it sold.

Structural timber has always been chosen to be knot free. Not so
floorboards.

What planet are you on? Is this a new Drivel sock puppet?


And it's reasonable to assume any Victorian joists still around came from
somewhere that didn't fall down - or at least not due to joists failing.

I'm wondering if you have any experience of this sort of timber?


Pulled enough of it totally rotten out of this house.

And others.

PLENTY of knots in it.


The only thing you can say, is that if it hadn't fallen down, it wasn't
total rubbish.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article
,
geraldthehamster wrote:
Likely if anything to be the very best timber of its type.

I have 30 sq m of resawn pitch pine floorboards, sawn from beams, in
storage waiting to go into my master bedroom once the plaeterer has
finished. They came from an eBy seller in E. Yorks. The timber is in
excellent condition, with no noticeable defects. A couple of the
longer boards have rectangular holes towards the ends, where the cut
went across a mortise ;-)

;-) Indeed.

The advantage of re-sawn boards is that you get good quality 100-year-
old well-seasoned timber, but newly cut and intact tongues and
grooves.

You'd be hard pressed to find timber of that quality at affordable prices
new. If at all.

Bwahaha.

http://www.ukarchitecturalantiques.c...loorboards_219

about £30 per square meter

I can get oak for less than that..a lot less.

Its about £30 a cubic foot. That's a raw lumber price at say 25mm
thickness (planed to 19mm) of around 75p a sq foot. Or maybe £7.50 a
square meter. OK sawing and planing takes it up a LOT, but not that much.

http://www.adoos.co.uk/post/1942892/..._starting_from

they claim £13 a square meter.

Id say £20 is nearer for most places I've looked.

But most Victorian floorboards weren't tongue and groove. Too much
movement in the average Victorian house. ;-)

And lack of spindle moulders

On Sep 10, 6:58*am, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article
,

*But most Victorian floorboards weren't tongue and groove. Too much
movement in the average Victorian house. ;-)

And lack of spindle moulders


They had moulding planes and machine made moulding. Main reason they
didnt T&G the boards is they saw no need to, so didnt spend the money.
Many economies were made then that wouldnt be now, and vice versa.


NT

On Sep 9, 9:24*pm, Rob G wrote:
On 9 Sep, 15:40, RobertL wrote:

For flooring an extension to my Victorian house I am planning to use
reclaimed victorian floorboard (with suitable *insulation under). ebay
item 220474833588 is an example.

However, an alternative is "resawn floorboards" where the supplier has
sawn up victorian joists to make 'new' old floorboards. * * ebay item
130325590872 is an example.

*Is there anything to aware of with such resawn boards? *is the joist
wood likely to be softer for example, or to have more knots in it?

Robert

This is quite a difficult one to call as the pictures do show wood
that is not heavily knotted, is quite straight and tight grained, but
is also from trees of quite small diameter such that it will have a
tendency to cup. *Add that it is not T&G and I think you might have
problems with it as the *t &g do tend to hold the wood flat - you nail
through the tongue.

If you do go for it I would recommend finding first a joiner with a
spindle moulder who is prepared to cut the tongues and grooves. *That
may not be too easy on second hand wood as it may contain nails.

Rob

I can understand that applying to new wood, but old dry timber?


NT

This is quite a difficult one to call as the pictures do show wood
that is not heavily knotted, is quite straight and tight grained

The end grain looks decidedly woolly to me, unlike e.g. European
Redwood, where growth rings are sharply defined. I still think it's some
kind of spruce, not unlike today's studding but from a larger section.
If so, it's a difficult timber to machine cleanly and won't wear well.

, but
is also from trees of quite small diameter such that it will have a
tendency to cup. Add that it is not T&G and I think you might have
problems with it as the t &g do tend to hold the wood flat - you nail
through the tongue.

This stuff is 12" wide, so I assume it will be for 2 x 6" boards.

If you do go for it I would recommend finding first a joiner with a
spindle moulder who is prepared to cut the tongues and grooves. That
may not be too easy on second hand wood as it may contain nails.

He'd be sharpening the cutters every five minutes if it's spruce. I
think that's one of the reasons it's essentially a structural timber.

"RobertL" wrote in message
...

For flooring an extension to my Victorian house I am planning to use
reclaimed victorian floorboard (with suitable insulation under). ebay
item 220474833588 is an example.

However, an alternative is "resawn floorboards" where the supplier has
sawn up victorian joists to make 'new' old floorboards. ebay item
130325590872 is an example.

Is there anything to aware of with such resawn boards? is the joist
wood likely to be softer for example, or to have more knots in it?

Robert


I can't imagine new floorboards from old joists will have the same patina as
old original floorboards. I would want to see a sample first.

Victorian houses get dismantled and the boards reclaimed so keep looking.
Another thing to bear in mind, is that it is often the case that floorboards
from upstairs are thinner than those downstairs.

mark

geraldthehamster wrote:
On Sep 9, 6:49 pm, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
Likely if anything to be the very best timber of its type.

I have 30 sq m of resawn pitch pine floorboards, sawn from beams, in
storage waiting to go into my master bedroom once the plaeterer has
finished. They came from an eBy seller in E. Yorks. The timber is in
excellent condition, with no noticeable defects. A couple of the
longer boards have rectangular holes towards the ends, where the cut
went across a mortise ;-)

The advantage of re-sawn boards is that you get good quality 100-year-
old well-seasoned timber, but newly cut and intact tongues and
grooves.

Regards
Richard

Pitch pine is a different ball game altogether. Twice the weight of
ordinary softwood and so resinous it hardly needs a finish. My Viccy
balusters and newel posts are made from it, and they look a treat.
However, the grain pattern is spectacular to say the least.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Structural timber has always been chosen to be knot free. Not so
floorboards.

What planet are you on? Is this a new Drivel sock puppet?

I'm wondering the same about you. I've lots of experience of London
Victorian houses. And only speak from what I've seen. You'll get plenty of
knots in cosmetic timber including floorboards - but not in joists, etc.


And it's reasonable to assume any Victorian joists still around came
from somewhere that didn't fall down - or at least not due to joists
failing.

I'm wondering if you have any experience of this sort of timber?


Pulled enough of it totally rotten out of this house.

Crap design of house, then. Plenty of those around. No wood is immune from
rot if the conditions are right for it.

--
*Oh, what a tangled website we weave when first we practice *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
You'd be hard pressed to find timber of that quality at affordable
prices new. If at all.

Bwahaha.

http://www.ukarchitecturalantiques.c...loorboards_219

about £30 per square meter

I can get oak for less than that..a lot less.

So give the URL so we can compare. Plus of course, if you already have
pine, you may want to match it.

Its about £30 a cubic foot. That's a raw lumber price at say 25mm
thickness (planed to 19mm) of around 75p a sq foot. Or maybe £7.50 a
square meter. OK sawing and planing takes it up a LOT, but not that much.

http://www.adoos.co.uk/post/1942892/..._starting_from

they claim £13 a square meter.

Id say £20 is nearer for most places I've looked.

But most Victorian floorboards weren't tongue and groove. Too much
movement in the average Victorian house. ;-)

And lack of spindle moulders

More ********. HTF do you think they made all those mouldings? By hand?

--
*Out of my mind. Back in five minutes.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sep 9, 3:40*pm, RobertL wrote:
For flooring an extension to my Victorian house I am planning to use
reclaimed victorian floorboard ...

*Is there anything to aware of with such resawn boards? *is the joist
wood likely to be softer for example, or to have more knots in it?


Thank you all for your comments many of which are very helpful.

Just to clarify; I want to build in sympathy with the rest of the
house. This means no T+G (and no chipboard of course). It means
using boards similar to the ones I already have even though better
quality ones might be available.

I deally I would use salvaged Victorian floorboard, but resawn joists
is also an option it seems.

thanks,

Robert

I can get oak for less than that..a lot less.

Its about £30 a cubic foot. That's a raw lumber price at say 25mm
thickness (planed to 19mm) of around 75p a sq foot. Or maybe £7.50 a
square meter. OK sawing and planing takes it up a LOT, but not that much.


But oak isn't to everybody's taste aesthetically. Visually I find it a
bit bland (yes, even quarter sawn), plus it reminds me of schools and
official buildings.

Robert Laws wrote:
xxx

Just to clarify; I want to build in sympathy with the rest of the
house. This means no T+G (and no chipboard of course). It means
using boards similar to the ones I already have even though better
quality ones might be available.


Why not tongue and groove?
The difference wont show,
but if the wood does expand or contract there wont be so many draughts.
Or does the secret nailing stop the groove being an expansion joint?

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...n_a_Wood_Floor



And on this subject when improving victorian floors
is it a good idea to put kingspan under them to insulate them
and should we put a plastic vapour barrier on top of the kingspan
or would that trap any spills of water in the house
and cause more rot than the condensations it's supposed to stop?

[g]

In article ,
Stuart Noble wrote:
I can get oak for less than that..a lot less.

Its about £30 a cubic foot. That's a raw lumber price at say 25mm
thickness (planed to 19mm) of around 75p a sq foot. Or maybe £7.50 a
square meter. OK sawing and planing takes it up a LOT, but not that
much.


But oak isn't to everybody's taste aesthetically. Visually I find it a
bit bland (yes, even quarter sawn), plus it reminds me of schools and
official buildings.

I also wonder if this cheap oak TNP goes on about is available in the same
widths as was common with Victorian pine? Narrower just doesn't look right
in many rooms. And of course T&G will be narrower by nature.

--
*Money isn't everything, but it sure keeps the kids in touch.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
george (dicegeorge) wrote:
Just to clarify; I want to build in sympathy with the rest of the
house. This means no T+G (and no chipboard of course). It means
using boards similar to the ones I already have even though better
quality ones might be available.


Why not tongue and groove?
The difference wont show,
but if the wood does expand or contract there wont be so many draughts.
Or does the secret nailing stop the groove being an expansion joint?

Think you'll have problems getting T&G with the same perceived width of
board.

--
*I was once a millionaire but my mom gave away my baseball cards

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
You'd be hard pressed to find timber of that quality at affordable
prices new. If at all.

Bwahaha.

http://www.ukarchitecturalantiques.c...loorboards_219

about £30 per square meter

I can get oak for less than that..a lot less.

So give the URL so we can compare.

I did just that in the post stoopid.

Plus of course, if you already have
pine, you may want to match it.

Its about £30 a cubic foot. That's a raw lumber price at say 25mm
thickness (planed to 19mm) of around 75p a sq foot. Or maybe £7.50 a
square meter. OK sawing and planing takes it up a LOT, but not that much.

http://www.adoos.co.uk/post/1942892/..._starting_from

they claim £13 a square meter.

Id say £20 is nearer for most places I've looked.

But most Victorian floorboards weren't tongue and groove. Too much
movement in the average Victorian house. ;-)

And lack of spindle moulders

More ********. HTF do you think they made all those mouldings? By hand?


A lot of them, yes.

Its not actually that hard.

I've done similar here.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
So give the URL so we can compare.

I did just that in the post stoopid.

So you did. Now compare prices like for like. Including lengths available.

I'll give you a hint. There are no joints in my floorboards on the ground
floor as built. All continuous lengths.

--
*It sounds like English, but I can't understand a word you're saying.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Stuart Noble wrote:

I can get oak for less than that..a lot less.

Its about £30 a cubic foot. That's a raw lumber price at say 25mm
thickness (planed to 19mm) of around 75p a sq foot. Or maybe £7.50 a
square meter. OK sawing and planing takes it up a LOT, but not that much.


But oak isn't to everybody's taste aesthetically. Visually I find it a
bit bland (yes, even quarter sawn), plus it reminds me of schools and
official buildings.

So buy NEW pine. Its even cheaper, if you must. I don't like it. It
reminds me of schools and official buildings. But then I am of a certain
age..

Or how about Maple? Iroco? Sapele? Tulipwood? ... there's a hundred
better woods than Pine, which really only has one virtue. It grows
relatively fast, so its cheap.

BUT since a large part of the cost is machining, not the actual wood, it
doesn't make an appreciable difference to the price.

A typical 'Naice door' in solid wood is between £150 and $£250 for e.g.
a Victorian style panelled door. Wood cost pre machining might be £15
softwood or £30 for top class hardwood.

Now if the company that makes them takes wood cost + labour cost times
margin, - say 45%, that should mean a real oak door is only about £25
more than a pine one..

Of course if you buy RETAIL, it all get marked up according to how
stupid they think you are.

Pine is the best of the softwoods, but all softwoods are crap really.
They all move around under humidity changes immensely, and they all
suffer from extremely variable density across the summer/winter growth
rings, leading to a very uneven wear pattern in time.


In reality, wood tends to cost what it takes to get it cut down and
transported and kiln dried and seasoned. Mostly its between £20 a cu ft
and £40 a cu ft for the more common species, with higher prices for the
exotic and rare stuff. A felled tree on site is *almost* worthless.
Unless its elm yew, walnut, cherry..even oak and beech are not worth
collecting for a single tree. You want a forest full to make it worth while.



As I said a cu ft of wood, sawn & planed with no wastage, is around 40
square foot of boarding. or 4 square meters. take out wastage (cracked,
split, knotted stuff) and its 1.5-2 square meters, but even so, the
actual wood cost of a planed 19mm board is only about £10-£20 a square
meter *if that*. Yet typically its sold at £30-£40..because people
believe it costs that! Well it does if you don't have the right
machinery and pay staff stupid wages, but it can be got for a lot less.

My point is, why bother with rubbish wood, when good wood is almost the
same price, and if its being sold to you higher, go somewhere that
machines raw lumber, and buy there instead.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Stuart Noble wrote:
I can get oak for less than that..a lot less.

Its about £30 a cubic foot. That's a raw lumber price at say 25mm
thickness (planed to 19mm) of around 75p a sq foot. Or maybe £7.50 a
square meter. OK sawing and planing takes it up a LOT, but not that
much.


But oak isn't to everybody's taste aesthetically. Visually I find it a
bit bland (yes, even quarter sawn), plus it reminds me of schools and
official buildings.

I also wonder if this cheap oak TNP goes on about is available in the same
widths as was common with Victorian pine? Narrower just doesn't look right
in many rooms. And of course T&G will be narrower by nature.

Its available in whatever width you want. Ive got 3" wide stuff, 4", 5",
7", 9"..as I said, I bought a job lot of beaded 19mm t&G. If I want
plane planks I mill off the edges. When I have designed the bookshelves
I will go and get it machined to order into the correct sized planks.
Extra wide stuff is more expensive, because it has to go across a whole
tree bole, but there you are talking 20" and upwards.

Good wood is NOT expensive, or not as expensive as people think it is,
and the people recycling Victorian pine, are laughing all the way to the
bank.

By and large they buy cheaper and sell dearer than the timber machiners
do for new wood, and the only downside is they lose the odd cutter blade
on a nail.

george (dicegeorge) wrote:


Robert Laws wrote:
xxx

Just to clarify; I want to build in sympathy with the rest of the
house. This means no T+G (and no chipboard of course). It means
using boards similar to the ones I already have even though better
quality ones might be available.


Why not tongue and groove?
The difference wont show,
but if the wood does expand or contract there wont be so many draughts.
Or does the secret nailing stop the groove being an expansion joint?

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...n_a_Wood_Floor



And on this subject when improving victorian floors
is it a good idea to put kingspan under them to insulate them
and should we put a plastic vapour barrier on top of the kingspan
or would that trap any spills of water in the house
and cause more rot than the condensations it's supposed to stop?

[g]

Its a good idea to decide what you actually really want, rather than how
you are going to achieve it, and then look at all the ways of doing it,
and pick the cheapest..my house is pure repro. It looks 600 years old.
Its 8 years old.

Its got some reclaimed ok, a lot of new, and some reclaimed brick where
it shows (internal fireplaces). but the chimnys are pure new brick and
block inside, because from a distance, with the right mortars it looks
JUST the same as an old one, just a little bit neater, but not much,
because the bricklayer who did it was ****ed when he wasn't stoned.

So its full of Olde Worlde Character. ;-)

On Sep 10, 10:37*am, "george (dicegeorge)"
wrote:
Robert Laws wrote:

xxx



Just to clarify; *I want to build in sympathy with the rest of the
house. *This means no T+G (and no chipboard of course). * It means
using boards similar to the ones I already have even though better
quality ones might be available.

Why not tongue and groove?
The difference wont show,
but if the wood does expand or contract there wont be so many draughts.
Or does the secret nailing stop the groove being an expansion joint?

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...n_a_Wood_Floor

And on this subject when improving victorian floors
is it a good idea to put kingspan under them to insulate them
and should we put a plastic vapour barrier on top of the kingspan
or would that trap any spills of water in the house
and cause more rot than the condensations it's supposed to stop?


I plan to add 100mm celotex under the floor wedged between joists.
Indeed Building Control will probably demand this sicne I wil be
"renovating a thermal unit".

I'll be nailing them striaght down with old fashioned flooring brads.

T+G is not quite invisible: the board edges are all exactly the same
heigth so you lose that slight uneveness which is part fo the
character. Also it makes lifting boards for access more difficult.

I wodnered about the need for an underfloor vapour barrier. I agree
that it's more likely to be a trap for spilled water. In fact I worry
aboty teh celotex on thos egrounds also.

Robert