Steve Terry wrote:
"Alex Heney" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 12:08:35 +0100, "Jeff" wrote:


"Fleetie" wrote in message
...
I read in a newspaper on Sunday or Monday that sale of the above
would be illegal in the UK after the coming Tuesday.

So I stocked up on some 40W SES bulbs for my lava lamp in
Sainsbury's last night.

But is this true? There are plenty of applications for incandescent
bulbs that are not simply designed for being the main light
sources in rooms.

I believe that it is only 100W bulbs and frosted pearl bulbs of
other wattages that will be banned.

Initially, yes.
From September 2010, it will be from 75W upwards, from September 2011
it will include everything from 60W upwards, etc.

Altogether there are 6 stages, although I think every size commonly
available will be covered by stage 4 (1 September 2012).
Alex Heney, Global Villager


By Sep 2012 new technology LED lamps should be in full production


that's just 3 years but I'd like your optimism to be true!

Harry Bloomfield wrote:
It happens that The Medway Handyman formulated :
John Rumm wrote:
Mr X wrote:
"John Rumm" wrote in message
news The actual UK voltage has not changed - only the nominal spec
voltage and the limits. Hence the UK remains in spec at 240V

232 when I last did it.

It will vary with location and load. Its usually about 237V here. The
various suppliers will aim to deliver to the majority of properties at
about 240V. Obviously that can mean in practice that the house nearest
the substation is getting close to 250 and the one at the far end of a
LV cable can be quite a bit lower.

We are 50m from a substation & get 252 on average.

100m and 240 to 242v

Next door to the substation and 232V

James wrote:
R. Mark Clayton wrote:
"geraldthehamster" wrote in message
...

Fleetie wrote:

I wouldn't want to have to reply on receiving bulbs by post, packed and
sent by some dodgy eBay geezer.


Thanks.


Martin
Well, I bought 100 60W pearl bulbs of a reputable brand from an eBay
seller a few months ago, and they arrived intact and well-packed. Come
to think of it, if the dealine is that close for frosted bulbs I need
to order some more, to make sure I have a lifetime's supply.

Whereas twelve 12kh CFL's running 8 hours a day would probably see you
out.

But leave him with ****ed eyesight and raging headaches.


CFL are high frequency now, they dont flicker at 100Hz like long
striplights.

"geraldthehamster" wrote in message
...

Well, I bought 100 60W pearl bulbs of a reputable brand from an eBay
seller a few months ago, and they arrived intact and well-packed. Come
to think of it, if the dealine is that close for frosted bulbs I need
to order some more, to make sure I have a lifetime's supply.

Regards
Richard

I have a large number of 100W in stock.

The whole thing is outrageous. Even if you accept the connection between
your choice of light bulb and global warming, how come the Government lets
people make their own decision about, say, air travel, but not about their
choice of light bulb? It isn't as if the alternatives were exact
replacements.

Bill

"Bill Wright" wrote in message
...
"geraldthehamster" wrote in message
...

Well, I bought 100 60W pearl bulbs of a reputable brand from an eBay
seller a few months ago, and they arrived intact and well-packed. Come
to think of it, if the dealine is that close for frosted bulbs I need
to order some more, to make sure I have a lifetime's supply.
Regards
Richard

I have a large number of 100W in stock.

The whole thing is outrageous. Even if you accept the connection between
your choice of light bulb and global warming, how come the Government lets
people make their own decision about, say, air travel, but not about their
choice of light bulb? It isn't as if the alternatives were exact
replacements.
Bill

and completely pointless as LEDs will take over within 5 years, so those
millions of replacement low energy florescent bulbs will get junked too

Steve Terry

"Dave" wrote in message
...

The same goes for traffic lights. There is a traffic light controlled
roundabout near here and if you are in the R/H lane, you can not see the
colour of the light until the last minute, because of the angle the lights
are presented to the driver. (You can't see the stop lines until the last
minute either, because of the contour of the road.)

That would be to slow you down.
You have to slow down to see if its ok to go.

"Bill Wright" wrote in message
...

The whole thing is outrageous. Even if you accept the connection between
your choice of light bulb and global warming, how come the Government lets
people make their own decision about, say, air travel, but not about their
choice of light bulb? It isn't as if the alternatives were exact
replacements.


The alternatives to flying (car, train, buses, ships) all create more
pollution than flying.
They don't want you to use an alternative they just want you to pay more
tax.

In uk.d-i-y, Dave wrote:
This begs the question of 'why did car manufacturers change indicator
light covers from amber to clear and put an amber coated bulb in there,
that can't be seen in bright sunlight?'

Is it so that the amber light cover doesn't compete with the paint
colour? That's important, you know. Also so that when the coating
eventually flakes off and the car fails its MOT test, there's further
income from a replacement bulb.


Additionally, why do some car manufacturers (Land Rover, VW, Skoda,
please take note) think it's a good idea to surround an indicator lamp
with a brake lamp? I suspect it's so that the indicator is almost
invisible when (as seems to be the fashion nowadays) people signal long
after they've started braking. More profit from replacement bumpers,
body panels, etc?

--
Mike Barnes

"Steve Terry" wrote in message
...

"Alex Heney" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 09:32:19 -0700 (PDT), AA
wrote:
On 27 Aug, 13:09, Huge wrote:
On 2009-08-27, chunkyoldcortina wrote:
Sam wrote:
"Jeff" wrote in
...
"Fleetie" wrote in message
...
snip
Not sure about GLS lamps but in more specialist lamps,i.e. stage and
studio they come in 230 and 240V flavours, 230V lamps dont make
anywhere near ther rated span here, mebbe all the CFLs we get are
230V ;-)

They shouldn't, since domestic electricity supply across the EU is now
standardized at a nominal 230V.
Alex Heney, Global Villager


Nominal 234v, +- 5%
which covers 220 to 250v

Steve Terry



How does it do that then? - or is it a nominal 5% as well?

Richard Tobin posted
In article ,
Fleetie wrote:

I read in a newspaper on Sunday or Monday that sale of the above would
be illegal in the UK after the coming Tuesday.

Others have already pointed out that this is not accurate.

But in any case you can still buy the 30%-less-power halogen
bulbs in the traditional format. I can't see any reason not
to use them.

Do they fit in existing bulb fittings, and are they the same price?

--
Les
Conspiracy theory: A suspicion that officials sometimes mislead the public in
order to protect their own interests.

Cynic wrote:

OTOH I must declare a vested commercial interest in
LED lighting (but not domestic lights - industrial and streetlighting
only).

Ah so your the one who is going to replace my streets lights with LED's
next month, will be interesting to see how they get on.


--
Corporal Jones
"I don't like it up me"

In article ,
Frank Erskine writes:
On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 19:01:52 +0100, "Steve Terry"
had this to say:

"Fleetie" wrote in message
...
I read in a newspaper on Sunday or Monday that sale of the above would
be illegal in the UK after the coming Tuesday.

So I stocked up on some 40W SES bulbs for my lava lamp in Sainsbury's
last night.


The ban is only on bulbs over 75w

Apparently not - it's all _GLS_ pearl/frosted bulbs.

SES will probably not be classed as GLS, nor will ES, BICBW.

The term GLS (General Lighting Service) includes all standard
pear-shaped and mushroom-shaped lamps with clear or pearl or
white painted finishes. There are no SES versions, but there
are ES (and GES) versions. It does not cover coloured versions
of these lamps.

All the SES filament lamps I can think of come under the
categories of Decorative lamps (e.g. candle, golf ball, etc),
reflector lamps (e.g. R30, R40), and Special Purpose lamps
(e.g. pygmy, oven, fridge, cooker hood, etc).

As I've commented before, the sales of all these decorative
and special purpose filament lamps has been falling dramatically
in any case. This, combined with many of them having been
manufactured in the same facilities as GLS lamps which are
ramping down, means you should assume they will become harder
to find over time, even in the absence of any ban.

A German colleague tells me there's been a big fuss about it
over there, and several of the retailers have stocked up with
many year's worth of the banned lamps. (It becomes illegal
to manufacture or import, but not to sell them.)

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Paul Hyett wrote:

IMO energy-saving bulbs aren't all they're cracked up to be, anyway.

They might not actually *fail* for a long time, but they fade over time,

No that's just you getting older.

I SAID THAT'S JUST oh never mind.

Bill Wright wrote:


"geraldthehamster" wrote in message
...

Well, I bought 100 60W pearl bulbs of a reputable brand from an eBay
seller a few months ago, and they arrived intact and well-packed. Come
to think of it, if the dealine is that close for frosted bulbs I need
to order some more, to make sure I have a lifetime's supply.

I have a large number of 100W in stock.

The whole thing is outrageous. Even if you accept the connection between
your choice of light bulb and global warming, how come the Government lets
people make their own decision about, say, air travel, but not about their
choice of light bulb? It isn't as if the alternatives were exact
replacements.

It's about mindset and control.

It's as if you're a squaddy in combat, being put on a charge because
your combat jacket has 'idle ends' or not having the back of your
cap-badge polished. Whether you're fighting the wrong war is an
irrelevance at that level, but the control is total. Similarly with
unplugging phone chargers or using CFLs or leaving your car ticking
over in a traffic jam, they don't address the problem, but your mind
is constantly focussed away from the big issues such as 'is CO2 really
the greatest influencing factor in climate change'.


--
from
Kim Bolton

In article ,
Big Les Wade writes:
Richard Tobin posted
In article ,
Fleetie wrote:

I read in a newspaper on Sunday or Monday that sale of the above would
be illegal in the UK after the coming Tuesday.

Others have already pointed out that this is not accurate.

But in any case you can still buy the 30%-less-power halogen
bulbs in the traditional format. I can't see any reason not
to use them.

Do they fit in existing bulb fittings,

Yes.

and are they the same price?

Of course not.

They're also nearly 30% dimmer.

In other words, they're a fiddle by the lighting industry
to mislead you into thinking you're buying a 30% more
efficient lamp.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Huge wrote:

But the OP has a point. The 23W one in the luminaire outside my front door
just failed (after not much more than a year - I have now started writing
the dates on these bulbs so I know how long they really last) and I replaced
it with an 11W since that was what I had. And it's brighter than the 23W
one was.

I know. In the general scheme of things it's all a bit pointless and
mildly irritating, but not the greatest injustice ever inflicted upon us
- as some posts in this thread might imply.

FWIW, I'm still impressed with those expensive Biolbulbs. They're
holding up well, except for the one that I killed by banging my head on
it. I'd probably have bought a couple just for the quality of the light,
regardless of the energy saving. No good with dimmers though.

In article ,
Chris Street writes:
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
It happens that The Medway Handyman formulated :
John Rumm wrote:
Mr X wrote:
"John Rumm" wrote in message
news The actual UK voltage has not changed - only the nominal spec
voltage and the limits. Hence the UK remains in spec at 240V

232 when I last did it.

It will vary with location and load. Its usually about 237V here. The
various suppliers will aim to deliver to the majority of properties at
about 240V. Obviously that can mean in practice that the house nearest
the substation is getting close to 250 and the one at the far end of a
LV cable can be quite a bit lower.

We are 50m from a substation & get 252 on average.

100m and 240 to 242v

Next door to the substation and 232V

About 100m from substation.
242V this morning, which is typical.
Have seen it as low as 239V, but only rarely.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

In article ,
"Clot" writes:
Steve Terry wrote:
By Sep 2012 new technology LED lamps should be in full production

that's just 3 years but I'd like your optimism to be true!

It's a promise the LED lighting industry has broken for every
one of the last 20 years!

There are some reasonably efficient LEDs in the lab, and
available at really stupid prices. You have to wait for patents
to age or expire before they can become consumer products though.

There really is nothing technologically on the horizon which
allows you to make a 100W [equivalent] retrofit GLS LED lamp
though. Widespread LED lighting will require new purpose-
designed luminares to solve the thermal design issues which
come with LEDs.

Commercially, metal halide lamps have already filled this space,
and you may see these moving into domestic use as the chinese
bring the costs down in bulk.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

dennis@home wrote:

The alternatives to flying (car, train, buses, ships) all create more
pollution than flying.

All?

Regardless of distance, number of passengers, over the complete journey
(not just airport to airport), always?

Haven't really thought this through, have you?

On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 09:04:32 +0100, Big Les Wade
wrote:

Richard Tobin posted

But in any case you can still buy the 30%-less-power halogen
bulbs in the traditional format. I can't see any reason not
to use them.

Do they fit in existing bulb fittings,

Sort of in that some are the same form factor roughly as conventional
incandescent, not necessarily, however, in Anglepoise type lamps where
they may cause problems as they are heavier.

and are they the same price?

Of course not, they are several times more expensive and available up
to a massive 42W (Osram Halolux) or 30W (Phillips Master Classic,
typically 10 times the cost of a standard GLS). A different form
factor Halolux is available up to 250W (also at 10 times the price of
GLS).

The present legislation is largely as a result of years of enormous
"lobbying" (cf bribery) of EU functionaries by Osram. European bulb
makers can't compete with Far Eastern imports on incandescent bulbs
and they are long out of patent protection. The revenue from domestic
lighting was falling rapidly and this was seen as the only way of
getting more money out of consumers and moving products back into
patent protection - particularly the "GLS replacement" halogens. The
idiot greenies, anxious to climb on any passing bandwagon smelling of
manure, were willing accomplices.

Rather cunningly the Chinese wiped out the worlds Rare Earth metals
mining industry in the 1990's by dumping and are now proposing to bar
the export of rare earths from China. Terbium, used to give CFL's
some semblance of a reasonable colour rendering index, would be barred
from export so Osram may end up hoist by their own petard as the only
bulbs with merely poor colour rendering will have to be made in China,
the EU manufactured ones will go back to being the dire "corpse
lights" of old. (The Toyota Pious and electric windmills could also
become museum pieces if the Chinese limit the export of neodymium as
expected).

"Alex Heney" wrote in message
...
Less likely than the same symptoms with incandescents.
Why do you say that?
Headaches are much more common with SFLs.

In article ,
Andrew Gabriel wrote:

But in any case you can still buy the 30%-less-power halogen
bulbs in the traditional format. I can't see any reason not
to use them.

They're also nearly 30% dimmer.

I have been replacing the 60W candle bulbs in a 3-bulb fitting with
the 42W halogen bulbs. They're noticably brighter than the old ones.
If course, the old ones are... old, but I don't think traditional bulbs
deteriorate that much.

-- Richard
--
Please remember to mention me / in tapes you leave behind.

Willy Eckerslyke wrote:

dennis@home wrote:

The alternatives to flying (car, train, buses, ships) all create more
pollution than flying.

All?

Regardless of distance, number of passengers, over the complete journey
(not just airport to airport), always?

Haven't really thought this through, have you?

On Usenet?

The main alternative to flying is staying where you are. This worked
pretty well for a long long time. Thanks to new fangled technology
like the telephone, it works pretty well now too.

On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 08:02:55 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:

"Bill Wright" wrote in message
.. .

The whole thing is outrageous. Even if you accept the connection between
your choice of light bulb and global warming, how come the Government lets
people make their own decision about, say, air travel, but not about their
choice of light bulb? It isn't as if the alternatives were exact
replacements.

The alternatives to flying (car, train, buses, ships) all create more
pollution than flying.

Not the alternative of staying put or travelling only a short
distance.

In article ,
(Richard Tobin) writes:
In article ,
Andrew Gabriel wrote:

But in any case you can still buy the 30%-less-power halogen
bulbs in the traditional format. I can't see any reason not
to use them.

They're also nearly 30% dimmer.

I have been replacing the 60W candle bulbs in a 3-bulb fitting with
the 42W halogen bulbs. They're noticably brighter than the old ones.
If course, the old ones are... old, but I don't think traditional bulbs
deteriorate that much.

They do actually. As the filament evaporates, the inside of the
bulb slowly darkens. Furthermore, as the filament evaporates,
its resistance increases, current drops, and power drops, so
you get two effects significantly dimming a filament lamp as it
ages. You may be replacing a frosted lamp with a clear one, and
clear ones are more efficient. The etched frosted lamps we used
to use lose around 2% of the light in the frosting. Due to the
hazards of handling the hydrofluoric acid used for the etching,
pearl lamps are now mostly frosted with an internal powder
coating, and this is less efficient (I don't have a figure though).
Many decorative lamps such as golf balls and candles have painted
coatings, and these are much less efficient, often losing some
20% or more of the light output verses the clear equivalent.

Halogen lamps can be built to be more efficient than non-
halogen filament lamps, or last longer, or some combination
between on a sliding scale. In nearly all consumer lamp products,
halogens are designed for longer life because people won't pay a
price premium for halogen lamps which only have the same
expected life as a non-halogen filament lamp costing a fraction
of the purchase price.

The other problem is that mains filament lamps (halogen and
non-halogen) get less efficient as you build them at lower
power ratings, and that weighs in against these reduced power
replacement lamps.

Philips built some GLS retrofits which use a low voltage
halogen capsule and small switched mode power supply in the
lamp base, similarly to CFL control gear. Those do deliver
real energy usage savings because the low voltage halogen is
so much more efficient than mains voltage filaments. I forget
the exact figures, but something like a 20W version was
equivalent to a 40 or 50W conventional lamp. Problem with
these was that a) you can't go higher than about 20W because
the heat will fry the integral switched mode power supply,
and b) the cost of these was so high, that even taking the
energy cost reduction into account, you are still well out
of pocket. There's also only a very tiny market for people who
care about their energy usage enough to spend extra on lamps,
but who insist on using filament lamps for general lighting.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 09:31:47 +0000 (UTC),
(Andrew Gabriel) wrote:

In article ,
"Clot" writes:
Steve Terry wrote:
By Sep 2012 new technology LED lamps should be in full production

that's just 3 years but I'd like your optimism to be true!

It's a promise the LED lighting industry has broken for every
one of the last 20 years!

There are some reasonably efficient LEDs in the lab, and
available at really stupid prices. You have to wait for patents
to age or expire before they can become consumer products though.

There really is nothing technologically on the horizon which
allows you to make a 100W [equivalent] retrofit GLS LED lamp
though. Widespread LED lighting will require new purpose-
designed luminares to solve the thermal design issues which
come with LEDs.

You're the second person to use the word 'luminaire' in this thread
today. I've never heard it before. You learn something new every day.

--
Max Demian

In message , Andrew Gabriel
writes

242V this morning, which is typical.
Have seen it as low as 239V, but only rarely.

234 here ATM, and 242 last night when I was reading the thread, I've
seen it both lower and higher.

--
bof at bof dot me dot uk

In article ,
Max Demian writes:
On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 09:31:47 +0000 (UTC),
(Andrew Gabriel) wrote:

In article ,
"Clot" writes:
Steve Terry wrote:
By Sep 2012 new technology LED lamps should be in full production

that's just 3 years but I'd like your optimism to be true!

It's a promise the LED lighting industry has broken for every
one of the last 20 years!

There are some reasonably efficient LEDs in the lab, and
available at really stupid prices. You have to wait for patents
to age or expire before they can become consumer products though.

There really is nothing technologically on the horizon which
allows you to make a 100W [equivalent] retrofit GLS LED lamp
though. Widespread LED lighting will require new purpose-
designed luminares to solve the thermal design issues which
come with LEDs.

You're the second person to use the word 'luminaire' in this thread
today. I've never heard it before. You learn something new every day.

Sorry, it's lighting industry jargon for a light fitting (and
I mistyped it anyway;-)

Also, 'lamp' is lighting industry jargon for a light bulb.

and 'bulb' is lighting industry jargon for the outer glass
of a 'lamp', or a small battery torch bulb, or something you
plant in the garden and grows into a flower, but not for a
light bulb;-)

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

In message , Dave
writes
Cynic wrote:

LEDs are inherently more directional than other forms of lighting.
That is in fact a good thing, because any light that is illuminating
areas you don't *need* to be illuminated is wasted energy. Coverage
angles are increased either by mounting several LEDs at different
angles, or with suitable optics (usually diffuser/lens combination,
which increases the price).

As far as car running lights go, they are rubbish. Look at the angle of
view they disapear at on a Mercedes. It is very narrow.

At night I find the on/off flickering of LED brake lights particularly
annoying, why not have interleaved arrays of LEDs that turn on at
different times to give the effect of a constant light?


--
bof at bof dot me dot uk

Fevric J. Glandules wrote:
Willy Eckerslyke wrote:

dennis@home wrote:

The alternatives to flying (car, train, buses, ships) all create more
pollution than flying.
All?

Regardless of distance, number of passengers, over the complete journey
(not just airport to airport), always?

Haven't really thought this through, have you?

On Usenet?

The main alternative to flying is staying where you are.

Or falling.


Pedantic, me?

In message , Huge
writes
On 2009-08-28, Willy Eckerslyke wrote:
Paul Hyett wrote:

IMO energy-saving bulbs aren't all they're cracked up to be, anyway.

They might not actually *fail* for a long time, but they fade over time,

No that's just you getting older.

I SAID THAT'S JUST oh never mind.

*grin*

But the OP has a point. The 23W one in the luminaire outside my front door
just failed (after not much more than a year - I have now started writing
the dates on these bulbs so I know how long they really last)


I initially had a lot of trouble with CFLs not lasting long, but not had
any fail for a year or two now, I suspect if they pass the 'infant
mortality' end of the bathtub curve they probably do last a long time.

Although thinking about the voltage sub-thread, the voltage has been a
lot more stable here lately (since a join in the street was replaced a
year or two ago), so that might be something to do with it.

--
bof at bof dot me dot uk

On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 09:31:47 +0000 (UTC),
(Andrew Gabriel) wrote:

By Sep 2012 new technology LED lamps should be in full production

that's just 3 years but I'd like your optimism to be true!

It's a promise the LED lighting industry has broken for every
one of the last 20 years!

We now have some very viable units in mass production at reasonable
prices. I understand your scepticism, but I do not see 3 years as
being overly optimistic. Right now it would be quite possible to
illuminate your entire house (including garden floodlights) with
commercially available LED lighting.

Personally I would fit about 20 or so small flush-fitting 5W LED units
into the ceiling of a medium size room. It would provide an
*extremely* bright but glare-free room (when needed) and an even,
shadow-free light. Dimming can be achieved by not having them all
switched on, which also has the advantage of allowing part of the room
to be bright (perhaps for reading) and another part dim (for TV
viewing).

There are some reasonably efficient LEDs in the lab, and
available at really stupid prices.

No, efficient LEDs that are bright and efficient have been in
commercial production for a couple of years now, and the prices have
fallen to economically viable levels (still relatively expensive but
dropping fast).

There really is nothing technologically on the horizon which
allows you to make a 100W [equivalent] retrofit GLS LED lamp
though.

It will be necessary to replace the light fittings for the foreseeable
future, yes. Not a huge undertaking, but not trivial either. The
more directional quality means that light placement is more critical,
and as said, plan on using a spread of several units to replace a
single tungston/CFL unit. I would recommend that anyone planning to
redecorate a room should look into fitting LED lighting as part of the
redecoration. I can almost guarantee that you will be pleased with
the result.

Widespread LED lighting will require new purpose-
designed luminares to solve the thermal design issues which
come with LEDs.

Yup - but don't use future tense. It's already been done and is
available to you right now. Unfortunately there are some really crap
designs and also unrealistic claims together with the good stuff, and
buying a badly designed product is likely to make a person dismiss the
technology as being inadequate. Price is not necessarily a good
guide.

Commercially, metal halide lamps have already filled this space,
and you may see these moving into domestic use as the chinese
bring the costs down in bulk.

Metal halide are not as efficient or long-lasting as LED. And whilst
metal halide is a mature technology where incremental improvements are
relatively small and infrequent, LEDs will improve in both quality and
price quite rapidly as the market grows.

--
Cynic

On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 09:11:26 +0100, Corporal Jones
wrote:

OTOH I must declare a vested commercial interest in
LED lighting (but not domestic lights - industrial and streetlighting
only).

Ah so your the one who is going to replace my streets lights with LED's
next month, will be interesting to see how they get on.

Unfortunately not. I will be interested to see whether they are as
good as ours!

--
Cynic

On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 13:11:02 +0000 (UTC),
(Andrew Gabriel) wrote:

In article ,
Max Demian writes:
On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 09:31:47 +0000 (UTC),
(Andrew Gabriel) wrote:
[...]

There really is nothing technologically on the horizon which
allows you to make a 100W [equivalent] retrofit GLS LED lamp
though. Widespread LED lighting will require new purpose-
designed luminares to solve the thermal design issues which
come with LEDs.

You're the second person to use the word 'luminaire' in this thread
today. I've never heard it before. You learn something new every day.

Sorry, it's lighting industry jargon for a light fitting (and
I mistyped it anyway;-)

No need to apologise. It's in my 1972 Chambers as a synonym for light
fitting: I just have never met it before

Also, 'lamp' is lighting industry jargon for a light bulb.

and 'bulb' is lighting industry jargon for the outer glass
of a 'lamp', or a small battery torch bulb, or something you
plant in the garden and grows into a flower, but not for a
light bulb;-)

I thought the glass bit was the 'envelope' - or is that just
(thermionic) valves?

--
Max Demian

On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 14:17:20 +0100, bof
wrote:

LEDs are inherently more directional than other forms of lighting.
That is in fact a good thing, because any light that is illuminating
areas you don't *need* to be illuminated is wasted energy. Coverage
angles are increased either by mounting several LEDs at different
angles, or with suitable optics (usually diffuser/lens combination,
which increases the price).

As far as car running lights go, they are rubbish. Look at the angle of
view they disapear at on a Mercedes. It is very narrow.

At night I find the on/off flickering of LED brake lights particularly
annoying

I have never noticed such an effect. Are you sure it is not that the
driver has a light pressure on the brake pedal? Any brake light will
flicker under that condition.

I've not found the directional quality to be an issue in any road
situation I have encountered so far. Cars that are at a sufficient
angle to render the lights invisible are generally in a position where
you don't need to see their lights.

--
Cynic

In article ,
Max Demian writes:
On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 13:11:02 +0000 (UTC),
(Andrew Gabriel) wrote:

In article ,
Max Demian writes:
On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 09:31:47 +0000 (UTC),
(Andrew Gabriel) wrote:
[...]

There really is nothing technologically on the horizon which
allows you to make a 100W [equivalent] retrofit GLS LED lamp
though. Widespread LED lighting will require new purpose-
designed luminares to solve the thermal design issues which
come with LEDs.

You're the second person to use the word 'luminaire' in this thread
today. I've never heard it before. You learn something new every day.

Sorry, it's lighting industry jargon for a light fitting (and
I mistyped it anyway;-)

No need to apologise. It's in my 1972 Chambers as a synonym for light
fitting: I just have never met it before

Also, 'lamp' is lighting industry jargon for a light bulb.

and 'bulb' is lighting industry jargon for the outer glass
of a 'lamp', or a small battery torch bulb, or something you
plant in the garden and grows into a flower, but not for a
light bulb;-)

I thought the glass bit was the 'envelope' - or is that just
(thermionic) valves?

That is also used in the context of the outer glass bulb.
It's perhaps a little bit old-fashioned, but I still use it
where it can be less ambiguous than 'bulb' in mixed company.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

In article ,
Andrew Gabriel wrote:

I have been replacing the 60W candle bulbs in a 3-bulb fitting with
the 42W halogen bulbs. They're noticably brighter than the old ones.
If course, the old ones are... old, but I don't think traditional bulbs
deteriorate that much.

They do actually.

Ok, I just did a side-by-side comparison of a conventional Osram 60W
SES bulb and a halogen Osram 42W SES bulb, both new out of the box.
Both are clear bulbs, but I judged them in translucent glass shades,
because that's what the light fitting has. The halogen appeared
slightly brighter.

The halogen is a candle-shaped bulb, the conventional one round; I
don't have identically shaped ones to try.

-- Richard
--
Please remember to mention me / in tapes you leave behind.

In article ,
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
There's also only a very tiny market for people who
care about their energy usage enough to spend extra on lamps,
but who insist on using filament lamps for general lighting.

Of course, this may change once you don't have the option of using
low-efficiency filament bulbs.

-- Richard
--
Please remember to mention me / in tapes you leave behind.

Andrew Gabriel wrote:

In article ,
Max Demian writes:

You're the second person to use the word 'luminaire' in this thread
today. I've never heard it before. You learn something new every day.

Sorry, it's lighting industry jargon for a light fitting (and
I mistyped it anyway;-)

Also, 'lamp' is lighting industry jargon for a light bulb.

and 'bulb' is lighting industry jargon for the outer glass
of a 'lamp', or a small battery torch bulb, or something you
plant in the garden and grows into a flower, but not for a
light bulb;-)

Lamps glow, bulbs grow...

--
from
Kim Bolton

In message , Cynic
writes
On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 14:17:20 +0100, bof
wrote:

LEDs are inherently more directional than other forms of lighting.
That is in fact a good thing, because any light that is illuminating
areas you don't *need* to be illuminated is wasted energy. Coverage
angles are increased either by mounting several LEDs at different
angles, or with suitable optics (usually diffuser/lens combination,
which increases the price).

As far as car running lights go, they are rubbish. Look at the angle of
view they disapear at on a Mercedes. It is very narrow.

At night I find the on/off flickering of LED brake lights particularly
annoying

I have never noticed such an effect.

At night move you sight from left to right and you should see the effect
quite clearly, same for the new(ish) flashing orange 'road works' lamps
on motorways, when they're on they are actually flashing.


Are you sure it is not that the
driver has a light pressure on the brake pedal? Any brake light will
flicker under that condition.

Nope not that.


--
bof at bof dot me dot uk