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Default Non incandescent bulbs?

Picked up the following quote on a technical news group where a
particular thread was expressing concern about the severe
deterioration of 'ordinary' AM (Amplitude Modulated) radio broadcasts.
Much of it, probably (most likely?) in the opinion of some who feel
they are technically informed, due the mandatory introduction of
digital TV?

Yeah, I know complain to your Congressman or government member! that
you had to buy a new TV, or install a new TV antenna etc.

Quote: "The low wattage (CFL) light bulbs also generate more noise
than illumination. A neighbor
almost burned his house down due to the failure of one of the little
power supplies in the
base of the bulb** which overheated while he was away from home. He
went back to using incandescents and his RFI (Radio Frequency noise
Interference) has improved although the HDTV (High Definition
'digital' TV) remains his nemesis".

** Locally: We had one CFL that failed and 'fell apart'; around same
time someone posted on a news group about a CFL that had burned up.
Then within days there was an incident discussed on a local radio show
about a local doctor who had a CFL catch fire and burn up a light
fixture. Fortunately it happened while the doctor was at home; she
smelled the burning and tracked down the problem; but the lamp fixture
was ruined.

Overall this business of RFI (Interference) is increasing; due to the
multiplicity of electronic 'gadgets' and additional consumers
services. One buys some cheap gadget (perhaps a dimmer, or touch-on
lamp or programmable something or other) supposedly FCC and or UL or
CSA (Canadian Standards Association) approved and then wonders why a
certain radio station or door opener doesn't work as reliably as
before!

KISS, Keep it simple sir, is maybe the best policy?
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On Aug 8, 11:58*am, terry wrote:
Picked up the following quote on a technical news group where a
particular thread was expressing concern about the severe
deterioration of 'ordinary' AM (Amplitude Modulated) radio broadcasts.
Much of it, probably (most likely?) in the opinion of some who feel
they are technically informed, due the mandatory introduction of
digital TV?

Yeah, I know complain to your Congressman or government member! that
you had to buy a new TV, or install a new TV antenna etc.

Quote: "The low wattage (CFL) light bulbs also generate more noise
than illumination. A neighbor
almost burned his house down due to the failure of one of the little
power supplies in the
base of the bulb** which overheated while he was away from home. He
went back to using incandescents and his RFI (Radio Frequency noise
Interference) has improved although the HDTV (High Definition
'digital' TV) remains his nemesis".

** Locally: We had one CFL that failed and 'fell apart'; around same
time someone posted on a news group about a CFL that had burned up.
Then within days there was an incident discussed on a local radio show
about a local doctor who had a CFL catch fire and burn up a light
fixture. Fortunately it happened while the doctor was at home; she
smelled the burning and tracked down the problem; but the lamp fixture
was ruined.

Overall this business of *RFI (Interference) is increasing; due to the
multiplicity of electronic 'gadgets' and additional consumers
services. One buys some cheap gadget (perhaps a dimmer, or touch-on
lamp or programmable something or other) supposedly FCC and or UL or
CSA (Canadian Standards Association) approved and then wonders why a
certain radio station or door opener doesn't work as reliably as
before!

KISS, Keep it simple sir, is maybe the best policy?


I bet selling incandesants is in your declining line of work. I use
near 100 cfl at several locations and cut my overall bill 30-50% using
them, they last, HD has a 7 yr warranty, I will only buy incandesants-
halogen for where I must.

The incandesant lightbulb is actualy an electric heater, outputting
only 3-6% of energy consumed as light you see, anybody relying on AC
in summer doesnt need a bigger bill from incandesants, do they.
Incandesants should be heavily taxed, CFls should be subsidised from
the tax.

This reminds me of my film camera store, still pushing film a few
years ago, he closed his business recently.
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Default Non incandescent bulbs?

In ,
terry wrote:

In short, mostly bad things about CFLs

My experience is that nearly all scary and spectacular failures of CFLs
and all instances of CFLs coming apart involved dollar store stool
specimens that lacked any sign of UL approval and FCC approval. I have
had only one non-dollar-store one so much as having the tubing come loose,
and that was a non-"Big 3" brand one being operated in an enclosed ceiling
fixture. At end-of-life, normal extra heating around the filaments in the
ends of the tubing softened a nearby part of the plastic ballast housing.

UL-approved integral-ballast CFLs have any significant plastic parts
made of suitably flame-retardant plastic.

I have also found the dollar store stool specimens, in my experience,
to have a high rate of having worse-than-average color and a 100% rate of
falling short of claimed light output.

In the USA, 120V lightbulbs with integral electronic ballasts or
magnetic ballasts are normally UL listed. Furthermore in the USA, 120V
lightbulbs with integral electronic ballasts are normally FCC approved.
Separate 120V ballasts in USA are also normally UL listed, and if they are
electronic type they are normally FCC approved.

I have had a few but not most FCC-approved CFLs noticeably interfere
with nearby AM radios and nearby analog TV sets.

- Don Klipstein )
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Default Non incandescent bulbs?

terry wrote:
Picked up the following quote on a technical news group where a
particular thread was expressing concern about the severe
deterioration of 'ordinary' AM (Amplitude Modulated) radio broadcasts.
Much of it, probably (most likely?) in the opinion of some who feel
they are technically informed, due the mandatory introduction of
digital TV?

Yeah, I know complain to your Congressman or government member! that
you had to buy a new TV, or install a new TV antenna etc.

Quote: "The low wattage (CFL) light bulbs also generate more noise
than illumination. A neighbor
almost burned his house down due to the failure of one of the little
power supplies in the
base of the bulb** which overheated while he was away from home. He
went back to using incandescents and his RFI (Radio Frequency noise
Interference) has improved although the HDTV (High Definition
'digital' TV) remains his nemesis".

** Locally: We had one CFL that failed and 'fell apart'; around same
time someone posted on a news group about a CFL that had burned up.
Then within days there was an incident discussed on a local radio show
about a local doctor who had a CFL catch fire and burn up a light
fixture. Fortunately it happened while the doctor was at home; she
smelled the burning and tracked down the problem; but the lamp fixture
was ruined.

Overall this business of RFI (Interference) is increasing; due to the
multiplicity of electronic 'gadgets' and additional consumers
services. One buys some cheap gadget (perhaps a dimmer, or touch-on
lamp or programmable something or other) supposedly FCC and or UL or
CSA (Canadian Standards Association) approved and then wonders why a
certain radio station or door opener doesn't work as reliably as
before!

KISS, Keep it simple sir, is maybe the best policy?


I had been meaning to ask if CFL's have an internal fuse. About 15
years ago I bought a special light bulb that you could dim by turning it
off and on the appropriate number of times. That sucker nearly burnt
down my house. I had it in a ceiling fan that the previous owners wired
with chain and lamp cord to a switched outlet. I was home and smelled
something burning and traced it to the lamp cord. I had to wait 15
minutes before the light cooled off enough to remove it and it was still
hot. Just to eliminate the ceiling fan as the possible culprit, I tried
it again in the garage on concrete were it couldn't burn anything.
After being on for about 3 hours it again started to short out. The
light kept working perfectly so there was no visual indication of any
problems.
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Tony wrote:
terry wrote:
Picked up the following quote on a technical news group where a
particular thread was expressing concern about the severe
deterioration of 'ordinary' AM (Amplitude Modulated) radio broadcasts.
Much of it, probably (most likely?) in the opinion of some who feel
they are technically informed, due the mandatory introduction of
digital TV?

Yeah, I know complain to your Congressman or government member! that
you had to buy a new TV, or install a new TV antenna etc.

Quote: "The low wattage (CFL) light bulbs also generate more noise
than illumination. A neighbor
almost burned his house down due to the failure of one of the little
power supplies in the
base of the bulb** which overheated while he was away from home. He
went back to using incandescents and his RFI (Radio Frequency noise
Interference) has improved although the HDTV (High Definition
'digital' TV) remains his nemesis".

** Locally: We had one CFL that failed and 'fell apart'; around same
time someone posted on a news group about a CFL that had burned up.
Then within days there was an incident discussed on a local radio show
about a local doctor who had a CFL catch fire and burn up a light
fixture. Fortunately it happened while the doctor was at home; she
smelled the burning and tracked down the problem; but the lamp fixture
was ruined.

Overall this business of RFI (Interference) is increasing; due to the
multiplicity of electronic 'gadgets' and additional consumers
services. One buys some cheap gadget (perhaps a dimmer, or touch-on
lamp or programmable something or other) supposedly FCC and or UL or
CSA (Canadian Standards Association) approved and then wonders why a
certain radio station or door opener doesn't work as reliably as
before!

KISS, Keep it simple sir, is maybe the best policy?


I had been meaning to ask if CFL's have an internal fuse. About 15
years ago I bought a special light bulb that you could dim by turning it
off and on the appropriate number of times. That sucker nearly burnt
down my house. I had it in a ceiling fan that the previous owners wired
with chain and lamp cord to a switched outlet. I was home and smelled
something burning and traced it to the lamp cord. I had to wait 15
minutes before the light cooled off enough to remove it and it was still
hot. Just to eliminate the ceiling fan as the possible culprit, I tried
it again in the garage on concrete were it couldn't burn anything. After
being on for about 3 hours it again started to short out. The light
kept working perfectly so there was no visual indication of any problems.

Hi,
If only you knew how that fancy dimming light worked, LOL!
In our ceiling fans only bulbs made for that.


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Bob-tx wrote:
I bet selling incandesants is in your declining line of work. I use
near 100 cfl at several locations and cut my overall bill 30-50%
using
them, they last, HD has a 7 yr warranty, I will only buy
incandesants-
halogen for where I must.

The incandesant lightbulb is actualy an electric heater, outputting
only 3-6% of energy consumed as light you see, anybody relying on AC
in summer doesnt need a bigger bill from incandesants, do they.
Incandesants should be heavily taxed, CFls should be subsidised from
the tax.

This reminds me of my film camera store, still pushing film a few
years ago, he closed his business recently.
__________________________________________________ __

That's great that you cut your energy cost, and that you wanted to
use
CFL bulbs. If you want to use them, you should be allowed to do
so.

I am not concerned about the energy cost of the few bulbs in our
house
and I don't want to use CFL's. If I don't want to use them, I
should be
allowed to use incandesents.

Get the government out of our everyday lives and decisions, like
what light bulb to use, and what health care I want.

Bob-tx


Exactly. I use cfl's to cut my electricity cost and like low flow
toilets since I have a septic system but I don't want to be dictated to
as to what I should use. Let the market place dictate, not the morons
in DC.
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I bet selling incandesants is in your declining line of work. I use
near 100 cfl at several locations and cut my overall bill 30-50%
using
them, they last, HD has a 7 yr warranty, I will only buy
incandesants-
halogen for where I must.

The incandesant lightbulb is actualy an electric heater, outputting
only 3-6% of energy consumed as light you see, anybody relying on AC
in summer doesnt need a bigger bill from incandesants, do they.
Incandesants should be heavily taxed, CFls should be subsidised from
the tax.

This reminds me of my film camera store, still pushing film a few
years ago, he closed his business recently.
__________________________________________________ __

That's great that you cut your energy cost, and that you wanted to
use
CFL bulbs. If you want to use them, you should be allowed to do
so.

I am not concerned about the energy cost of the few bulbs in our
house
and I don't want to use CFL's. If I don't want to use them, I
should be
allowed to use incandesents.

Get the government out of our everyday lives and decisions, like
what light bulb to use, and what health care I want.

Bob-tx


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Default Non incandescent bulbs?

On Sat, 8 Aug 2009 10:15:43 -0700 (PDT), ransley
wrote:

On Aug 8, 11:58Â*am, terry wrote:
Picked up the following quote on a technical news group where a
particular thread was expressing concern about the severe
deterioration of 'ordinary' AM (Amplitude Modulated) radio broadcasts.
Much of it, probably (most likely?) in the opinion of some who feel
they are technically informed, due the mandatory introduction of
digital TV?

Yeah, I know complain to your Congressman or government member! that
you had to buy a new TV, or install a new TV antenna etc.

Quote: "The low wattage (CFL) light bulbs also generate more noise
than illumination. A neighbor
almost burned his house down due to the failure of one of the little
power supplies in the
base of the bulb** which overheated while he was away from home. He
went back to using incandescents and his RFI (Radio Frequency noise
Interference) has improved although the HDTV (High Definition
'digital' TV) remains his nemesis".

** Locally: We had one CFL that failed and 'fell apart'; around same
time someone posted on a news group about a CFL that had burned up.
Then within days there was an incident discussed on a local radio show
about a local doctor who had a CFL catch fire and burn up a light
fixture. Fortunately it happened while the doctor was at home; she
smelled the burning and tracked down the problem; but the lamp fixture
was ruined.

Overall this business of Â*RFI (Interference) is increasing; due to the
multiplicity of electronic 'gadgets' and additional consumers
services. One buys some cheap gadget (perhaps a dimmer, or touch-on
lamp or programmable something or other) supposedly FCC and or UL or
CSA (Canadian Standards Association) approved and then wonders why a
certain radio station or door opener doesn't work as reliably as
before!

KISS, Keep it simple sir, is maybe the best policy?


I bet selling incandesants is in your declining line of work. I use
near 100 cfl at several locations and cut my overall bill 30-50% using
them, they last, HD has a 7 yr warranty, I will only buy incandesants-
halogen for where I must.

The incandesant lightbulb is actualy an electric heater, outputting
only 3-6% of energy consumed as light you see, anybody relying on AC
in summer doesnt need a bigger bill from incandesants, do they.
Incandesants should be heavily taxed, CFls should be subsidised from
the tax.

This reminds me of my film camera store, still pushing film a few
years ago, he closed his business recently.



In a perfect world -----
I have had TERRIBLE luck with Sylvania CF PAR bulbs. 3 two-packs now
that one bulb in each was dead within 30 seconds - have not had one
last 2 years yet. Several have failed within 4 months. The old
incandescents lasted over 4 years. I just replaced one for the second
time in TWENTY EIGHT YEARS - and it is used daily - usually for more
than 3 hours a day.
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In article , Bob-tx wrote:

I bet selling incandesants is in your declining line of work. I use
near 100 cfl at several locations and cut my overall bill 30-50%
using
them, they last, HD has a 7 yr warranty, I will only buy
incandesants-
halogen for where I must.

The incandesant lightbulb is actualy an electric heater, outputting
only 3-6% of energy consumed as light you see, anybody relying on AC
in summer doesnt need a bigger bill from incandesants, do they.
Incandesants should be heavily taxed, CFls should be subsidised from
the tax.

This reminds me of my film camera store, still pushing film a few
years ago, he closed his business recently.
_________________________________________________ ___

That's great that you cut your energy cost, and that you wanted to use
CFL bulbs. If you want to use them, you should be allowed to do so.

I am not concerned about the energy cost of the few bulbs in our house
and I don't want to use CFL's. If I don't want to use them, I
should be allowed to use incandesents.


I propose that the lightbulb types to be banned be taxed appropriately
instead.

Meanwhile, the soon-upcoming USA incandescent ban (2012/2014 stuff)
appears to me to have a set of loopholes wide enough to route the
Mississippi River through - including some options involving *decrease*
of energy efficiency.

http://members.misty.com/don/incban.html

Get the government out of our everyday lives and decisions, like
what light bulb to use, and what health care I want.


Even if healthcare cost to citizens of propserous industrialized
democracies is less in those other than USA than this is in USA?

USA has government spending for healthcare, as percentage of GDP,
about the same as that of Canada,

while USA citizens on average pay about as much privately as they do
through taxes and Federal gubmint borrowing (paid by taxpayers plus
interest until national debt is paid down to zero) for hospitals,
doctors/practioners, and prescriptions.

A goodly 40 fair-chance 45 million American citizens have no health
insurance or "healthcare coverage" by anyone/anything, and this does not
include illegal aliens. A much greater number deal with deductibles,
copays, and usually some out-of-pocket-from-take-home-pay for health
insurance premiums (sometimes 100%).

Why should this be the case with American gubmint spending for
healthcare coverage be as high in percentage of GDP as that in
more-socialist countries?

- Don Klipstein )
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In article ,
wrote:

SNIP what would otherwise be resaid more than once, as I edit for space

In a perfect world -----
I have had TERRIBLE luck with Sylvania CF PAR bulbs. 3 two-packs now
that one bulb in each was dead within 30 seconds - have not had one
last 2 years yet. Several have failed within 4 months.


Can you tell us model numbers / part numbers and nominal wattages that
have been so unlucky, as well as good description of what kind of fixtures
these fared so poorly in?

Please tell the world every possible detail of any CFL that has had 3
out of 6 croaking within half a minute. I have not even found the stool
specimens from dollar stores to be *that bad*.

The old incandescents lasted over 4 years. I just replaced one for the
second time in TWENTY EIGHT YEARS - and it is used daily - usually for
more than 3 hours a day.


Please tell us manufacturer, model #, part #, and every other relevant
description/info of incandescents having such duration.

I also note that it is easy to get incandescents to have such good
duration - as long as they have energy efficiency decreased by something
like 40% in comparison to that of "standard incandescents".

Please keep in mind the cost breakdown of incandescent lighting -
normally very little is from purchasing bulbs; incandescent lighting cost
is very heavily electricity cost. 2nd place cost of incandescent lighting
is arguably cost of air conditioning to pump the lighting's heat outdoors,
even where air conditioning sees much use only 4 months per year.

- Don Klipstein )


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On Sat, 8 Aug 2009 10:15:43 -0700 (PDT), ransley wrote:



I bet selling incandesants is in your declining line of work. I use
near 100 cfl at several locations and cut my overall bill 30-50% using
them,


Our local electric company just posted a $7 million loss for the second quarter
of this year. They attributed it to idle factories, a cool summer and consumer
conservation.

What do you think is going to happen during the next rate-increase hearings?
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Bunch of guys in suits, whining about the revenue loss, and
they got to have a rate increase. When they increase the
rates, more people will conserve, and they will lose even
more money. Leading to more rate increases because of the
revenue loss.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"JKevorkian" wrote in
message ...


Our local electric company just posted a $7 million loss for
the second quarter
of this year. They attributed it to idle factories, a cool
summer and consumer
conservation.

What do you think is going to happen during the next
rate-increase hearings?


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In article ,
"Stormin Mormon" wrote:

Bunch of guys in suits, whining about the revenue loss, and
they got to have a rate increase. When they increase the
rates, more people will conserve, and they will lose even
more money. Leading to more rate increases because of the
revenue loss.


Same thing happened here during the last big 7 year drought. Water
department wasn't making enough money to pay themselves. But instead of
raising prices, they lowered them to encourage people to use more.
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Musta been Reagan conservatives.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
Same thing happened here during the last big 7 year drought.
Water
department wasn't making enough money to pay themselves. But
instead of
raising prices, they lowered them to encourage people to use
more.


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On Aug 8, 9:24*pm, wrote:
On Sat, 8 Aug 2009 10:15:43 -0700 (PDT), ransley





wrote:
On Aug 8, 11:58*am, terry wrote:
Picked up the following quote on a technical news group where a
particular thread was expressing concern about the severe
deterioration of 'ordinary' AM (Amplitude Modulated) radio broadcasts.
Much of it, probably (most likely?) in the opinion of some who feel
they are technically informed, due the mandatory introduction of
digital TV?


Yeah, I know complain to your Congressman or government member! that
you had to buy a new TV, or install a new TV antenna etc.


Quote: "The low wattage (CFL) light bulbs also generate more noise
than illumination. A neighbor
almost burned his house down due to the failure of one of the little
power supplies in the
base of the bulb** which overheated while he was away from home. He
went back to using incandescents and his RFI (Radio Frequency noise
Interference) has improved although the HDTV (High Definition
'digital' TV) remains his nemesis".


** Locally: We had one CFL that failed and 'fell apart'; around same
time someone posted on a news group about a CFL that had burned up.
Then within days there was an incident discussed on a local radio show
about a local doctor who had a CFL catch fire and burn up a light
fixture. Fortunately it happened while the doctor was at home; she
smelled the burning and tracked down the problem; but the lamp fixture
was ruined.


Overall this business of *RFI (Interference) is increasing; due to the
multiplicity of electronic 'gadgets' and additional consumers
services. One buys some cheap gadget (perhaps a dimmer, or touch-on
lamp or programmable something or other) supposedly FCC and or UL or
CSA (Canadian Standards Association) approved and then wonders why a
certain radio station or door opener doesn't work as reliably as
before!


KISS, Keep it simple sir, is maybe the best policy?


I bet selling incandesants is in your declining line of work. I use
near 100 cfl at several locations and cut my overall bill 30-50% using
them, they last, HD has a 7 yr warranty, I will only buy incandesants-
halogen for where I must.


The incandesant lightbulb is actualy an electric heater, outputting
only 3-6% of energy consumed as light you see, anybody relying on AC
in summer doesnt need a bigger bill from incandesants, do they.
Incandesants should be heavily taxed, CFls should be subsidised from
the tax.


This reminds me of my film camera store, still pushing film a few
years ago, he closed his business recently.


In a perfect world -----
I have had TERRIBLE luck with Sylvania CF PAR bulbs. 3 *two-packs now
that one bulb in each was dead within 30 seconds - have not had one
last 2 years yet. Several have failed within 4 months. The old
incandescents lasted over 4 years. I just replaced one for the second
time in TWENTY EIGHT YEARS - and it is used daily - usually for more
than 3 hours a day.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Try HD stuff, In 2 years ive had 1 flood blow out of near 10, HD has
the most lienient return policy, but in cold, 0 to -10 they take 5
minutes to get 90% bright, if you leave them on all night or for hours
they are great, many of mine are in motion sensors, but my electric
bills are great.


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On Aug 8, 5:25*pm, "Bob-tx" wrote:
*I bet selling incandesants is in your declining line of work. I use
near 100 cfl at several locations and cut my overall bill 30-50%
using
them, they last, HD has a 7 yr warranty, I will only buy
incandesants-
halogen for where I must.

*The incandesant lightbulb is actualy an electric heater, outputting
only 3-6% of energy consumed as light you see, anybody relying on AC
in summer doesnt need a bigger bill from incandesants, do they.
Incandesants should be heavily taxed, CFls should be subsidised from
the tax.

*This reminds me of my film camera store, still pushing film a few
years ago, he closed his business recently.
__________________________________________________ __

That's great that you cut your energy cost, and that you wanted to
use
CFL bulbs. * If you want to use them, you should be allowed to do
so.

I am not concerned about the energy cost of the few bulbs in our
house
and I don't want to use CFL's. *If I don't want to use them, I
should be
allowed to use incandesents.

Get the government out of our everyday lives and decisions, like
what light bulb to use, and what health care I want.

Bob-tx


To me, paying any utility co, is throwing money away. The bills kill
me and I see no negatives on cfls except some areas still need
incandesants, like dimmed can lights.
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On Aug 8, 3:15*pm, ransley wrote:
On Aug 8, 11:58*am, terry wrote:





Picked up the following quote on a technical news group where a
particular thread was expressing concern about the severe
deterioration of 'ordinary' AM (Amplitude Modulated) radio broadcasts.
Much of it, probably (most likely?) in the opinion of some who feel
they are technically informed, due the mandatory introduction of
digital TV?


Yeah, I know complain to your Congressman or government member! that
you had to buy a new TV, or install a new TV antenna etc.


Quote: "The low wattage (CFL) light bulbs also generate more noise
than illumination. A neighbor
almost burned his house down due to the failure of one of the little
power supplies in the
base of the bulb** which overheated while he was away from home. He
went back to using incandescents and his RFI (Radio Frequency noise
Interference) has improved although the HDTV (High Definition
'digital' TV) remains his nemesis".


** Locally: We had one CFL that failed and 'fell apart'; around same
time someone posted on a news group about a CFL that had burned up.
Then within days there was an incident discussed on a local radio show
about a local doctor who had a CFL catch fire and burn up a light
fixture. Fortunately it happened while the doctor was at home; she
smelled the burning and tracked down the problem; but the lamp fixture
was ruined.


Overall this business of *RFI (Interference) is increasing; due to the
multiplicity of electronic 'gadgets' and additional consumers
services. One buys some cheap gadget (perhaps a dimmer, or touch-on
lamp or programmable something or other) supposedly FCC and or UL or
CSA (Canadian Standards Association) approved and then wonders why a
certain radio station or door opener doesn't work as reliably as
before!


KISS, Keep it simple sir, is maybe the best policy?


*


Bet selling incandescents is in your declining line of work. I use
near 100 cfl at several locations and cut my overall bill 30-50% using
them, they last, HD has a 7 yr warranty, I will only buy incandescents-
halogen for where I must.

The incandescent light-bulb is actually an electric heater, outputting
only 3-6% of energy consumed as light you see, anybody relying on AC
in summer doesn't need a bigger bill from incandescents, do they.
Incandescents should be heavily taxed, CFls should be subsidised from
the tax.

This reminds me of my film camera store, still pushing film a few
years ago, he closed his business recently.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


No just a retired geezer who built most of the two homes we have
owned since 1960 and keeps track of things technical and costs of
running and maintaining a home.

This house is all-electric. If we had realized while building it some
40 years ago that electricity costs would rise from around 2.5 to 4
cents per kilowatt hour, back then not really competitive with oil,
which was then cheaper (no gas here except expensive bottled propane)
to now just over 10 cents per kwhr. we might have done a 'few' things
slightly differently. BTW 99.9% of the homes here are all-electric.
With a few newer ones using heat pumps.

But even today with most new houses now constructed to R2000 standards
etc. this 4 bedroom house, compared to most, has a reasonable overall
energy cost.

Oddly I was dropping off a pick-up load of wood scraps for my son's
friend wood stove last night and he mentioned, without me ever raising
the subject, that he has had to make numerous replacements of CFLs in
the newly constructed house he bought one year ago. By the same token
our bathroom is almost entirely heated by the six 40 watt bulbs (240
watts) above the vanity mirror! The regular 500 watt electric
baseboard in that room rarely cuts in except in coldest weather. And
by comparison have replaced only perhaps three or four incandescent
bulbs in this whole house since march of 2008.

The wasted heat of incandescents. Last night (August 8th) the
temperature here was about 10 Celsius, 50 to 55 deg F so with the one
or two 60 or 100 watt side-table lamps and the medium sized TV exuding
heat in the family room temp was OK at 11.00 PM without putting on a
sweater. The electric heater thermostat in that room has been mainly
turned off for last couple of months.

So heat energy is heat no matter where it comes from; especially
during cool/chilly and evenings and during winter nights (5.00 PM
onwards etc.) and after dark which is when the lights tend to be on.
Simple incandescent lamps ARE very INefficient at producing light. But
in some situations any of their 'wasted' energy is just so much needed
warmth!

Also lamp-light energy itself, from any source, spends a few micro/
micro seconds in the form of light and is then absorbed by the walls,
furniture and persons in the home as heat. .

Incandescent bulbs presently cost anywhere from 88 cents to 1.00 for
pack of four. Plus sales tax of 13%. That's Canadian price; about the
equivalent of 23 to 25 cents US per bulb. In our service they seem to
each last several years and the 'lost/wasted' heat is merely part of
the house heating load.

The one really inefficient fixture in this house is the Long Life 50
watt incandescent front porch light. Which is on most of all nights
for safety and insurance purpose. But since it is also switched on by
a remotely controlled electronic switch, so that my neighbours can
switch it on and off from across the street if/when I'm away and it
needs a short ladder to replace the bulb. So am glad we are only on
our second bulb in some five to ten years years (seem to remember
having to put a new bulb in that fixture in 2007???). But yes the heat
(and light) from that one is wasted to all outdoors. Well maybe one of
the 70 or so trees we have planted over the last 40 years absorbs some
of the light during the night? :-) :-)

Theoretically if this house was sufficiently well insulated with
quadruple glass windows etc. etc. it would be possible to heat and
light the place with a single light bulb! But then there wouldn't
possibly be enough air exchange to breathe!

Almost all the electrcity generated here is from hydro-water power
with a small standby oil burning station near the main city. A further
huge new hydro development is in the cards at The Lower Churchill in
Labrador which will produce allegedly 'clean' electric power for this
area and providing further electricity exports to and through the New
England states of the USA. The existing 1960s Churchill Falls
underground power generating station is said to be the biggest in the
world with some of the electricity it generates powering places as
distant as New York City!

Using hydro should help keep energy costs down and be less polluting
than burning coal?

Oh. BTW cfls and other fluorescents such as we use in our kitchen,
workshop and a storeroom, are not designed (we are told) to be
switched on and off frequently???? Wondering if that limits their use
on say stairs and/or bathrooms (without windows) which are only
momentary use situations? We are going to replace the porch light and
will try using a CFL there hoping it will be compatible with the
electronic switch? We also have two outside motion/night-time sensor
fixtures that ONLY takes incandescent floods. In some two plus years
we have not, so far, replaced any bulbs.

Cheers.
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To me, paying any utility co, is throwing money away. The bills kill
me and I see no negatives on cfls except some areas still need
incandesants, like dimmed can lights.- Hide quoted text -


This all-electric four bedroom 40 year old 2100 sq foot main floor +
1600 sq ft unfinished basement has total utility (that's
electricity) , plus municipal taxes (including water and sewer), plus
insurance costs of less than $4500 per year (about $350/month
Canadian; or $300/month US $.
Now starting to do some maintenance which even if it amounts to say
$20,000 to $40,000 (Unlikely) is equivalent of around $500 to $1000
per year of occupancy. Not too bad for a house that we built without a
mortgage in the 1970s.
Don't think one could downsize for less than that. And where would one
put all the 'junk' of a lifetime?????
Oh yes and btw we have to buy a new snowblower; the older third hand
used one has finally 'bought the farm'.
Cheers.
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On Aug 9, 11:37*am, stan wrote:
To me, paying any utility co, is throwing money away. The bills kill
me and I see no negatives on cfls except some areas still need
incandesants, like dimmed can lights.- Hide quoted text -


This all-electric four bedroom 40 year old 2100 sq foot main floor +
1600 sq ft unfinished basement has total utility (that's
electricity) , plus municipal taxes (including water and sewer), plus
insurance costs of less than $4500 per year (about $350/month
Canadian; or $300/month US $.
Now starting to do some maintenance which even if it amounts to say
$20,000 to $40,000 (Unlikely) is equivalent of around $500 to $1000
per year of occupancy. Not too bad for a house that we built without a
mortgage in the 1970s.
Don't think one could downsize for less than that. And where would one
put all the 'junk' of a lifetime?????
Oh yes and btw we have to buy a new snowblower; the older third hand
used one has finally 'bought the farm'.
Cheers.


350 month avg, thats alot im in 3500 sq ft and electric averages 38 a
month, not including AC. AC and heat , Today 92f and down to -20f
winter is expensive. I was 65 a month before CFLs
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In article , JKevorkian wrote:

SNIP previously quoted material

Our local electric company just posted a $7 million loss for the second quarter
of this year. They attributed it to idle factories, a cool summer and consumer
conservation.

What do you think is going to happen during the next rate-increase
hearings?

1. The electric company will get a rate hike sufficient to restore its
profit level. Its customer base will end up paying as much per month as
before for the company's profit. However, its customer base will still
benefit from reduced generating fuel cost and reduced cost of constructing
new power plants.

2. If the customers implement conservation unequally, those who do less
to conserve or do not conserve at all will be hit harder by the rate
increase.

- Don Klipstein )


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In ,
ransley wrote:

SNIP previously quoted stuff

Try HD stuff, In 2 years ive had 1 flood blow out of near 10, HD has
the most lienient return policy, but in cold, 0 to -10 they take 5
minutes to get 90% bright, if you leave them on all night or for hours
they are great, many of mine are in motion sensors, but my electric
bills are great.


Good luck and more power to you for the motion sensors. Hot cathode
fluorescents have a lot more wear per start than incandescents, and motion
sensor lights are normally not on for enough time to make much of an
energy conservation opportunity.

I would use incandescents for the motion sensors. Many, including
reflector flood and spot types, are not affected by the upcoming 2012/2014
USA ban.

http://members.misty.com/don/incban.html

There are cold cathode compact fluorescents, probably best available
from online lightbulb sellers such as bulbs.com. These do not suffer
significant wear from starting. They are somewhat less efficient than hot
cathode CFLs, but remain a lot more efficient than incandescents.
However, they have the same issue of starting dim and needing to warm up
that hot cathode CFLs have.

Most cold cathode CFLs are rated for use with dimmers.

- Don Klipstein )
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On Sun, 9 Aug 2009 07:23:35 +0000 (UTC), (Don
Klipstein) wrote:

In article ,
wrote:

SNIP what would otherwise be resaid more than once, as I edit for space

In a perfect world -----
I have had TERRIBLE luck with Sylvania CF PAR bulbs. 3 two-packs now
that one bulb in each was dead within 30 seconds - have not had one
last 2 years yet. Several have failed within 4 months.


Can you tell us model numbers / part numbers and nominal wattages that
have been so unlucky, as well as good description of what kind of fixtures
these fared so poorly in?

Please tell the world every possible detail of any CFL that has had 3
out of 6 croaking within half a minute. I have not even found the stool
specimens from dollar stores to be *that bad*.


Sylvania 15 watt Osram/Sylvania reflector (par) bulbs in recessed
non-insulated ceiling (pot light) fixtures.
number on the bulb says cf15elbr30frost

The old incandescents lasted over 4 years. I just replaced one for the
second time in TWENTY EIGHT YEARS - and it is used daily - usually for
more than 3 hours a day.


Please tell us manufacturer, model #, part #, and every other relevant
description/info of incandescents having such duration.


The inccandescents were, IIRC, 60 watt PAR32. in the same fixtures.
Just replaced the last one, installed in1998, over a week ago (and
replaced it wirh the Sylvania that lasted 30 seconds). I also have
some Philips Marathon 15 watt PAR32 CFL bulbs in service - less than
2 years yet, but still working

I also note that it is easy to get incandescents to have such good
duration - as long as they have energy efficiency decreased by something
like 40% in comparison to that of "standard incandescents".

Please keep in mind the cost breakdown of incandescent lighting -
normally very little is from purchasing bulbs; incandescent lighting cost
is very heavily electricity cost. 2nd place cost of incandescent lighting
is arguably cost of air conditioning to pump the lighting's heat outdoors,
even where air conditioning sees much use only 4 months per year.

- Don Klipstein )



Tody is the second day we've had the AC on here in Central Ontario
this year. Most summers are MUCH hotter and more humid.
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In , wrote:
On 8/9/09 07:23:35 +0 UTC,
(Don Klipstein) wrote:

In article ,
wrote:

SNIP what would otherwise be resaid more than once, as I edit for space

In a perfect world -----
I have had TERRIBLE luck with Sylvania CF PAR bulbs. 3 two-packs now
that one bulb in each was dead within 30 seconds - have not had one
last 2 years yet. Several have failed within 4 months.


Can you tell us model numbers / part numbers and nominal wattages that
have been so unlucky, as well as good description of what kind of fixtures
these fared so poorly in?

Please tell the world every possible detail of any CFL that has had 3
out of 6 croaking within half a minute. I have not even found the stool
specimens from dollar stores to be *that bad*.


Sylvania 15 watt Osram/Sylvania reflector (par) bulbs in recessed
non-insulated ceiling (pot light) fixtures.


I suspect those are minor improvement over whatever insulated ones for
CFL overheating. For CFLs, I like to refer to recessed ceiling fixtures
in general as "heat hellholes".

Philips has, as of last time I checked, a product line of CFLs with
non-dimmable ones up to and including 23 watts (and not including 25
watts) being outright rated for use in recessed ceiling fixtures. These
are not PAR floods, but there are snap-on flood-reflectors available for
these. I strongly recommend using the wider R40 one as opposed to the
narrower R30 one if the R40 one fits with at least almost 1/4 inch of air
space around its rim for convected air to flow around.

number on the bulb says cf15elbr30frost


Thanks for this info - makes me think 3.75 inch diameter frosted
reflectorized floodlight with bulge approaching the base. This leads to a
bit of homework for me to do to see if the problem you had with this one
is common enough to show up in web searches. Please feel free to nag me
here in the likely event I get get sidetracked by the other $#!+ that I
do, such as a "day job" and a "side job", a website of mine that I need to
work at at least a little for, and spending time and some effort to
maintain a relationship with "someone special" that I would refer to as
my spouse if PA marriage law was like that of Canada...

The old incandescents lasted over 4 years. I just replaced one for the
second time in TWENTY EIGHT YEARS - and it is used daily - usually for
more than 3 hours a day.


Please tell us manufacturer, model #, part #, and every other relevant
description/info of incandescents having such duration.


The inccandescents were, IIRC, 60 watt PAR32. in the same fixtures.


Thanks for what you told us here so far - but I fail to see manufacturer
or brand, or part number specific enough to confirm or rule out
vibration-resistant filament design (less efficient), longlife version,
halogen version, whatever.

Just replaced the last one, installed in1998, over a week ago (and
replaced it wirh the Sylvania that lasted 30 seconds). I also have
some Philips Marathon 15 watt PAR32 CFL bulbs in service - less than
2 years yet, but still working


This slightly reinforces the good sensation that I have received for
Philips CFLs. Philips is one of the "Big Three", all 3 of which I have
found generally better in USA than others for CFs and lightbulbs in
general. The other 2 are Sylvania and GE.

SNIP a dozen or so lines mostly previously quoted

Tody is the second day we've had the AC on here in Central Ontario
this year. Most summers are MUCH hotter and more humid.


I have noted already as a weather and atmospheric science nut that the
Ontario-to-Hudson-Bay area had an especially cool July, as part of
mid-year so-far having generally northeast and northeastern-"MidWest"
USA and nearby region of Canada running notably cool. This occurred
during a time period having a slightly wild swing in global temperature as
determined by interpretation of satellite data for "lower troposphere" and
where the global surface temperature upticked a bit from "warm but
downturning the global warming trend" to "warmth of 2004-2005
*maybe-maintained*.

I still note that the coolness of NE and eastish-N-central USA and areas
of Canada from such to around Hudson Bay did indeed occur. I merely say
that this cooling is a temporary one of maybe 2% of the globe's area.

- Don Klipstein )
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JRStern wrote:
On Sat, 08 Aug 2009 17:08:32 -0400, Van Chocstraw
wrote:

I've been using ALL CFL's for decades. I've never heard of such a thing.
I've broken a couple in my drop cord, what do you expect? I killed many
more incandescents in drop cords in years past.


Getcha one of them newfangled LED dropcords, sounds like they were
designed for you!

J.


I always use the bulbs designed for drop cords, coated
rough service incandescent bulbs. Drop the cord and it
stays lit.

TDD
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