Looks like CFLs are now officially dimmer that they claim to be:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...7/Energy-savin
g-light-bulbs-offer-dim-future.html

--
bof at bof dot me dot uk

On 29 Aug, 12:39, Cynic wrote:
On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 21:15:07 +0100, "Clive George"

wrote:
Personally I would fit about 20 or so small flush-fitting 5W LED units
into the ceiling of a medium size room. *It would provide an
*extremely* bright but glare-free room (when needed) and an even,
shadow-free light. *Dimming can be achieved by not having them all
switched on, which also has the advantage of allowing part of the room
to be bright (perhaps for reading) and another part dim (for TV
viewing).
Aren't LEDs really good at being dimmed anyway? (with appropriate drivers).
Better than switching some off, surely?

It's your choice. *I *think* that switching off some of the lights
would be slightly more energy efficient than dimming, and it also
allows you to light only the parts of the room that you need to light.

With great respect, dimming is an essential part of , any modern,
interior lighting design.

The great advantage of LED lighting is the ability to exploit putting
light exactly where it is required even with the fittings and
furniture of the space.

Adam


--
Cynic

In article ,
Huge writes:
On 2009-08-30, bof wrote:

Looks like CFLs are now officially dimmer that they claim to be:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...7/Energy-savin
g-light-bulbs-offer-dim-future.html

What a surprise. Not.

The manufacturers are currently pushing the EU to allow them to
remove the power rating from CFL lamps, arguing that it's only
confusing consumers. Not as much as their incorrect claims of
filament lamp equivalency are.

As regulars on uk.d-i-y will know, I've been pointing out the
misleading claims of equivalency with filament lamp ratings for
many years. My recommendation is to ignore the equivalency given
on the packaging (which is usually 5 or more times the CFL rating).
Feit (sold by Costco) is the only make I've seen in the UK with
realistic filament equivalancy ratings on the packet.

The most efficient CFLs are those with exposed tubes, and amongst those,
it's the ones with the tubes separated as much as possible -- well
spaced out. For these, use a general rule of a 4:1 ratio for filament
lamp to CFL equivalency. So to replace a 100W filament lamp, you'll
be looking for a 23-25W CFL. (18W is the highest stocked by most
supermarkets, which is why you may be struggling to find something to
replace a 100W filament lamp.)

As the lamp is made more compact (tubes squashed closer together)
which is required to fit in some light fittings, the folded tube
limbs start significantly shadowing each other and efficiency falls.
For the most compact ones, you're probably looking at a 3:1 ratio.

CFLs which have an outer bulb covering the tubes will lose effiency
in this outer bulb, and they usually have a more compact folded
tube arrangement in order to fit into the outer bulb. (The one
place where they can win is when used outdoors in an exposed windy
location, where the outer bulb will help the tube to warm up to
the correct temperature without suffering from wind-chill.)

CFLs with integral reflectors have the lowest efficiency of all,
because the large light source inherent with a CFL is really bad
for designing efficient reflector lamps. The smaller the reflector
with respect to the tube physical size, the worse the efficiency.
The really small ones have a ratio sometimes worse than 2:1, so a
7W reflector CFL is equivalent to approx 14W filament lamp, although
it will probably claim to be equivalent to a 30W lamp on the package.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 02:48:51 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

My reason for asking, was that inspite of much hype, much (if not all)
of the general purpose LED lighting I have seen so far, I not been that
impressed with. Often exhibiting low overall brightness levels (but very
high directionality), poor colour rendition, and often poor reliability.
If there is stuff being made now, or coming on stream soon that is
better than what I have experienced so far then it would be nice to know.

There is not a lot of hype - CFLs are being pushed rather than LED,
but they are living on borrowed time. Just wait a year or two. Most
of the stuff in the shops at present are designed for decorative
lighting, though there are a few items that are good for general
lighting. Most of the good stuff is at present sold b2b rather than
consumer sales, but that will change very soon. I predict that in 10
years it will be the main form of lighting just about anywhere.

--
Cynic

On 28 Aug, 14:28, Cynic wrote:
On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 09:31:47 +0000 (UTC),

(Andrew Gabriel) wrote:
By Sep 2012 new technology LED lamps should be in full production
that's just 3 years but I'd like your optimism to be true!
It's a promise the LED lighting industry has broken for every
one of the last 20 years!

We now have some very viable units in mass production at reasonable
prices. *I understand your scepticism, but I do not see 3 years as
being overly optimistic. *Right now it would be quite possible to
illuminate your entire house (including garden floodlights) with
commercially available LED lighting.

It is possible but it is still a very steep price performance curve.

Personally I would fit about 20 or so small flush-fitting 5W LED units
into the ceiling of a medium size room. *It would provide an
*extremely* bright but glare-free room (when needed) and an even,
shadow-free light. *Dimming can be achieved by not having them all
switched on, which also has the advantage of allowing part of the room
to be bright (perhaps for reading) and another part dim (for TV
viewing).

Please have a read at one of the many good books on interior lighting
design to understand the differnce between general and task lighting
and the actual expected illuminance levels.


There are some reasonably efficient LEDs in the lab, and
available at really stupid prices.

No, efficient LEDs that are bright and efficient have been in
commercial production for a couple of years now, and the prices have
fallen to economically viable levels (still relatively expensive but
dropping fast).

Certainly beginning to drop down the price performance curve but, in
my experince, this is making it of more interest to more commercial
users, who look at lifetime not just purchase cost, but domestic
consumers just balk at the cost.

There really is nothing technologically on the horizon which
allows you to make a 100W [equivalent] retrofit GLS LED lamp
though.

It will be necessary to replace the light fittings for the foreseeable
future, yes. *Not a huge undertaking, but not trivial either. *The
more directional quality means that light placement is more critical,
and as said, plan on using a spread of several units to replace a
single tungston/CFL unit. * I would recommend that anyone planning to
redecorate a room should look into fitting LED lighting as part of the
redecoration. *I can almost guarantee that you will be pleased with
the result.

Widespread LED lighting will require new purpose-
designed luminares to solve the thermal design issues which
come with LEDs.

Yup - but don't use future tense. *It's already been done and is
available to you right now.


Would absolutely agree there, as to Andrew`s comments about Patents
dropping off the perch, dont think Philips spent so much money on
Color Kinetics just to get its then existing product line, the Big
Three lighting outfits, Osram,Philips, GE, are as keen to stay the big
three as they ever were.

*Unfortunately there are some really crap
designs and also unrealistic claims together with the good stuff, and
buying a badly designed product is likely to make a person dismiss the
technology as being inadequate. *Price is not necessarily a good
guide.

Too true.

Commercially, metal halide lamps have already filled this space,
and you may see these moving into domestic use as the chinese
bring the costs down in bulk.

Metal halide are not as efficient or long-lasting as LED. *And whilst
metal halide is a mature technology where incremental improvements are
relatively small and infrequent, LEDs will improve in both quality and
price quite rapidly as the market grows.

Metal halide in real world applications is a good deal more efficient
than even lab rat LED, high pressure sodium has come on in leaps and
bounds in last 20 years, LED is one tool in the lighting designers
toolbox, but one of a quite a few.As a supplier dinnae end up looking
like a hammer salesman, where everything looks like a nail.

Adam


--
Cynic

"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...
Cynic wrote:
On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 02:48:51 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

My reason for asking, was that inspite of much hype, much (if not all)
of the general purpose LED lighting I have seen so far, I not been that
impressed with. Often exhibiting low overall brightness levels (but very
high directionality), poor colour rendition, and often poor reliability.
If there is stuff being made now, or coming on stream soon that is
better than what I have experienced so far then it would be nice to
know.

There is not a lot of hype - CFLs are being pushed rather than LED,

Well there is plenty of comment along the lines of "LED will be really
good when its ready". The problem is that has been said for many years
now. Hence why I was hoping there was some evidence of progress.

but they are living on borrowed time. Just wait a year or two. Most
of the stuff in the shops at present are designed for decorative
lighting, though there are a few items that are good for general
lighting. Most of the good stuff is at present sold b2b rather than

So there should be details of that on a web site somewhere. What should we
be searching for? Brand names, fitting and lamp types etc?

consumer sales, but that will change very soon. I predict that in 10
years it will be the main form of lighting just about anywhere.



--
Cheers,

John.

I am still waiting to buy the fold-up car that was featured on Tomorrows
World. Apparently it would fit in a suitcase.

Adam

"Cynic" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 15:17:58 +0100, Cherry Chapstick
wrote:

Spacecraft are potentially the most fuel-efficient mode of transport
in terms of passenger-miles per gallon of fuel.

I don't see any numbers there relating to spacecraft and pm per
gallon. I don't see any information there, either, that can convert
the solid rocket fuel into a 'gallon of fuel' equivalent. Perhaps I
am being short sighted.

You are. A spacecraft can travel forever at millions of miles per
hour on no fuel whatsoever. Therefore it must be *potentially* the
most fuel efficient method of transport. I chucked it in my post as a
semi-humerous observation, but with the serious point that such
comparisons are not always a valid way of looking at things.

--
Cynic

I take your point about *potentially*

A spacecraft can travel for millions of miles in orbit around a planet or it
can drift in space at millions of mile per hour without any power.

A quote from Buzz Aldrin "Apollo 11 managed 7 gallons per inch on lift off"

Imagine nipping down to the shops for a pint of milk with that sort of fuel
use.

Adam

On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 13:02:37 GMT, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:

I am still waiting to buy the fold-up car that was featured on Tomorrows
World. Apparently it would fit in a suitcase.

The big difference being that no fold-up car has been commercially
produced (the idea was ridiculous to start with), whereas there is a
huge range of LED lighting already available, and increasing all the
time.

--
Cynic

On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 13:50:38 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

So there should be details of that on a web site somewhere. What should
we be searching for? Brand names, fitting and lamp types etc?

http://ledfluorescentlamps.com/
http://www.ledlightingproducts.co.uk/index.htm
http://www.enluxled.com/index.php
http://www.natolamps.com/
http://www.elektoled.com/
http://ledhomeplace.com/

As the first 6 sites out of 75000 in a quick search.

You have probably seen many places illuminated by LED lighting without
realising it.

--
Cynic

"Cynic" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 13:02:37 GMT, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:

I am still waiting to buy the fold-up car that was featured on Tomorrows
World. Apparently it would fit in a suitcase.

The big difference being that no fold-up car has been commercially
produced (the idea was ridiculous to start with), whereas there is a
huge range of LED lighting already available, and increasing all the
time.

--
Cynic

LED lighting is as ridiculous as a fold up car. Neither will work properly
IMHO

Adam

In article ,
AA wrote:

With great respect, dimming is an essential part of , any modern,
interior lighting design.

But who has one of those? I'm not going to "design" the lighting
in my house, it's already been done 130 years ago. I have a lamp
with a dimmer on it, and don't feel any urgent need for more.

Dimming is handy in a few cases, but hardly "essential".

-- Richard
--
Please remember to mention me / in tapes you leave behind.

(Andrew Gabriel) writes:

The manufacturers are currently pushing the EU to allow them to
remove the power rating from CFL lamps, arguing that it's only
confusing consumers. Not as much as their incorrect claims of
filament lamp equivalency are.

How can a wattage figure on CFLs confuse consumers any more than that on
filament lamps? It would only confuse the consumer if the consumer is
not charged for 1 kwH 'unit' of electricity for every 1000/N hours it is
switched on where N is the advertised wattage. In which case, not only
would it be confusing the consumer but would be mis-description and
therefore contravene the Sale of Goods Act.

"Richard Tobin" wrote in message
...
In article
,
AA wrote:

With great respect, dimming is an essential part of , any modern,
interior lighting design.

But who has one of those? I'm not going to "design" the lighting
in my house, it's already been done 130 years ago. I have a lamp
with a dimmer on it, and don't feel any urgent need for more.

Dimming is handy in a few cases, but hardly "essential".

-- Richard


So what do you do when you want to seduce a woman?

Adam

On 30 Aug, 17:10, (Richard Tobin) wrote:
In article ,

AA wrote:
With great respect, dimming is an essential part of , any modern,
interior lighting design.

But who has one of those?

Just simply adding a dimmable table/floor lamp ring in a room in
addition to dimmable ceiling lights can make a huge difference.
Psychologically think we are programmed to time of day by birghtness
and angle of light, light from a low angle feels more natural and
relaxing in the evening.
Lights that fade are far more satisfying, when was the last time you
were in a theatre that switched the houselights out?

*I'm not going to "design" the lighting
in my house, it's already been done 130 years ago. *

Presumably to accommodate , the by then advanced, gas lighting, which
was a devastating increase in brightness over the oil lamp, but
obviously limited in positioning by practical reasons.
Electric light has often been pulled through the old gas pipes, its
convenient to install but takes none of the advantages now available.

I have a lamp
with a dimmer on it, and don't feel any urgent need for more.

At least you have a lamp with a dimmer on it, the conversions
working ;-)

Dimming is handy in a few cases, but hardly "essential".

In a modern lighting design , with the luxury of open voids to run
cable where ever it is required , cable is cheap, but people always
think about the lighting just after they put the wallpaper up....

Adam

-- Richard
--
Please remember to mention me / in tapes you leave behind.

In article ,
ARWadsworth scribeth thus

"Richard Tobin" wrote in message
...
In article
,
AA wrote:

With great respect, dimming is an essential part of , any modern,
interior lighting design.

But who has one of those? I'm not going to "design" the lighting
in my house, it's already been done 130 years ago. I have a lamp
with a dimmer on it, and don't feel any urgent need for more.

Dimming is handy in a few cases, but hardly "essential".

-- Richard


So what do you do when you want to seduce a woman?

Adam


Gaslight silly;!...
--
Tony Sayer

On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 10:18:35 +0100, bof
wrote:


Looks like CFLs are now officially dimmer that they claim to be:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...7/Energy-savin
g-light-bulbs-offer-dim-future.html


This report more or less tells it like it is.

It does however make it clear that the measurements were taken after a
10 minute warm up period. Rather a long time to be waiting around on
the landing before venturing down the stairs.

So eat your heart out Mary Fisher and Dynamo Hansen.

Understandably not tested was the deterioration in light output over
time. My experience is that you can reckon on up to a 50% reduction in
light output over the first 12 months as the very heavily used small
area of phosphor blackens and gets scoured off the tight bends .

Similarly not yet tested have been the totally bogus claims of
longevity, and these seem to be getting more and more wildly
exaggerated. Claims of 8 years appearing on CFL packaging wheras a
more realistic estimate would be 8 to 18 months.

Derek

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article ,
ARWadsworth scribeth thus

"Richard Tobin" wrote in message
...
In article
,
AA wrote:

With great respect, dimming is an essential part of , any modern,
interior lighting design.

But who has one of those? I'm not going to "design" the lighting
in my house, it's already been done 130 years ago. I have a lamp
with a dimmer on it, and don't feel any urgent need for more.

Dimming is handy in a few cases, but hardly "essential".

-- Richard


So what do you do when you want to seduce a woman?

Adam


Gaslight silly;!...
--
Tony Sayer

Not a 12 inch candle then?

Adam

On 30 Aug 2009 16:10:44 GMT, (Richard Tobin)
wrote:

In article ,
AA wrote:

With great respect, dimming is an essential part of , any modern,
interior lighting design.

But who has one of those? I'm not going to "design" the lighting
in my house, it's already been done 130 years ago.

So has all other aspects of interior design, but I have no doubt that
most of the furniture in your living room, including the light
fittings look quite different to a room of 130 years ago.

--
Cynic

On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 05:23:19 -0700 (PDT), AA
wrote:

Metal halide in real world applications is a good deal more efficient
than even lab rat LED, high pressure sodium has come on in leaps and
bounds in last 20 years,

Yup - but LEDs have now overtaken them in efficiency, and have the
advantage of being white light.

LED is one tool in the lighting designers
toolbox, but one of a quite a few.As a supplier dinnae end up looking
like a hammer salesman, where everything looks like a nail.

I design & manufacture for commercial floodlighting and
streetlighting.

--
Cynic

On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 19:17:17 +0100, Cynic
wrote:

On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 05:23:19 -0700 (PDT), AA
wrote:

Metal halide in real world applications is a good deal more efficient
than even lab rat LED, high pressure sodium has come on in leaps and
bounds in last 20 years,

Yup - but LEDs have now overtaken them in efficiency, and have the
advantage of being white light.


I don't recall seeing any white light emitting diodes.

LED is one tool in the lighting designers
toolbox, but one of a quite a few.As a supplier dinnae end up looking
like a hammer salesman, where everything looks like a nail.

I design & manufacture for commercial floodlighting and
streetlighting.

You come over as a cross between Peter Stuyvessant, James Bond ...

and Torchy the Battery Boy.

Derek

In uk.d-i-y Richard Tobin wrote:
In article ,
AA wrote:

With great respect, dimming is an essential part of , any modern,
interior lighting design.

But who has one of those? I'm not going to "design" the lighting
in my house, it's already been done 130 years ago. I have a lamp
with a dimmer on it, and don't feel any urgent need for more.

Dimming is handy in a few cases, but hardly "essential".

Yes, I quite agree, we had two dimmers in our large house, both have
failed and neither has been replaced - we really don't find the need.

--
Chris Green

In uk.d-i-y ARWadsworth wrote:

"Richard Tobin" wrote in message
...
In article
,
AA wrote:

With great respect, dimming is an essential part of , any modern,
interior lighting design.

But who has one of those? I'm not going to "design" the lighting
in my house, it's already been done 130 years ago. I have a lamp
with a dimmer on it, and don't feel any urgent need for more.

Dimming is handy in a few cases, but hardly "essential".

-- Richard


So what do you do when you want to seduce a woman?

Strangely enough some of us are happily married and anyway dim
lighting isn't the only way there. :-)

--
Chris Green

In uk.d-i-y AA wrote:
On 30 Aug, 17:10, (Richard Tobin) wrote:
In article ,

AA wrote:
With great respect, dimming is an essential part of , any modern,
interior lighting design.

But who has one of those?

Just simply adding a dimmable table/floor lamp ring in a room in
addition to dimmable ceiling lights can make a huge difference.

A huge difference to *what*?


Psychologically think we are programmed to time of day by birghtness
and angle of light, light from a low angle feels more natural and
relaxing in the evening.

Our house has small windows, *all* the light is from a relatively low
angle, you don't need artificial light to do that for you. We also
have wood burning fires, if we want really low level 'romantic'
lighting then firelight does it for us.

The only place where we have a lot of different lights which get used
according to need is the kitchen where we have four separately
switched sets of lights.

--
Chris Green

"Owain" wrote in message
...
On 30 Aug, 14:15, "ARWadsworth" wrote:
A quote from Buzz Aldrin "Apollo 11 managed 7 gallons per inch on lift
off"
Imagine nipping down to the shops for a pint of milk with that sort of
fuel
use.

American housewives don't have to imagine - they just hop in the
humvee and run down to Walmart for poptarts and ammo.

Owain

And a face lift.


Adam

wrote in message
...
In uk.d-i-y ARWadsworth wrote:

"Richard Tobin" wrote in message
...
In article
,
AA wrote:

With great respect, dimming is an essential part of , any modern,
interior lighting design.

But who has one of those? I'm not going to "design" the lighting
in my house, it's already been done 130 years ago. I have a lamp
with a dimmer on it, and don't feel any urgent need for more.

Dimming is handy in a few cases, but hardly "essential".

-- Richard


So what do you do when you want to seduce a woman?

Strangely enough some of us are happily married

I am working on that again


and anyway dim lighting isn't the only way there. :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk_eQyjanGM

1 min and 13 seconds in

--
Chris Green

Adam

On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 17:04:54 UTC, Graham Murray
wrote:

(Andrew Gabriel) writes:

The manufacturers are currently pushing the EU to allow them to
remove the power rating from CFL lamps, arguing that it's only
confusing consumers. Not as much as their incorrect claims of
filament lamp equivalency are.

How can a wattage figure on CFLs confuse consumers any more than that on
filament lamps?

CFLs show two wattages; the consumption and the claimed 'equivalent'. It
is the latter figure that misleads.

Manufacturers are talking rubbish; it's the'equivalent' figure that
needs fixing, and that's entirely up to them.

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
om...
"Cynic" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 13:02:37 GMT, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:

I am still waiting to buy the fold-up car that was featured on Tomorrows
World. Apparently it would fit in a suitcase.

The big difference being that no fold-up car has been commercially
produced (the idea was ridiculous to start with), whereas there is a
huge range of LED lighting already available, and increasing all the
time.
Cynic

LED lighting is as ridiculous as a fold up car. Neither will work properly
IMHO
Adam


What you mean is that you haven't used any modern LEDs

Almost all torches are now LED and getting better and cheaper all the time

Steve Terry

ARWadsworth wrote:
"Richard Tobin" wrote in message
...
In article
,
AA wrote:

With great respect, dimming is an essential part of , any modern,
interior lighting design.

But who has one of those? I'm not going to "design" the lighting
in my house, it's already been done 130 years ago. I have a lamp
with a dimmer on it, and don't feel any urgent need for more.

Dimming is handy in a few cases, but hardly "essential".

-- Richard


So what do you do when you want to seduce a woman?

Rohypnol.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

ARWadsworth wrote:
wrote in message
...
In uk.d-i-y ARWadsworth wrote:

"Richard Tobin" wrote in message
...
In article
,
AA wrote:

With great respect, dimming is an essential part of , any modern,
interior lighting design.

But who has one of those? I'm not going to "design" the lighting
in my house, it's already been done 130 years ago. I have a lamp
with a dimmer on it, and don't feel any urgent need for more.

Dimming is handy in a few cases, but hardly "essential".

-- Richard


So what do you do when you want to seduce a woman?

Strangely enough some of us are happily married

I am working on that again


and anyway dim lighting isn't the only way there. :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk_eQyjanGM

1 min and 13 seconds in

What is?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

The Medway Handyman wrote:
ARWadsworth wrote:
wrote in message
...
In uk.d-i-y ARWadsworth wrote:
"Richard Tobin" wrote in message
...
In article
,
AA wrote:

With great respect, dimming is an essential part of , any modern,
interior lighting design.
But who has one of those? I'm not going to "design" the lighting
in my house, it's already been done 130 years ago. I have a lamp
with a dimmer on it, and don't feel any urgent need for more.

Dimming is handy in a few cases, but hardly "essential".

-- Richard

So what do you do when you want to seduce a woman?

Strangely enough some of us are happily married
I am working on that again


and anyway dim lighting isn't the only way there. :-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk_eQyjanGM

1 min and 13 seconds in

What is?

And me, what is?

Dave

Dave wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote:
ARWadsworth wrote:

1 min and 13 seconds in

What is?

And me, what is?

His personal record?

Jaf wrote:
What a dull thread.

Dull as a decades old lava lamp.

John Rumm wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk_eQyjanGM

1 min and 13 seconds in

What is?

A relevant lyric, if one listens...

Is it? I'm too distracted by that point.

On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 13:02:37 GMT, ARWadsworth wrote:

I am still waiting to buy the fold-up car that was featured on Tomorrows
World. Apparently it would fit in a suitcase.

Where do all the suitcases in the boot then go? You'd need a car to carry
them.
--
Peter.
The head of a pin will hold more angels if
it's been flattened with an angel-grinder.

On 30 Aug 2009 19:37:25 GMT, Bob Eager wrote:

On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 17:04:54 UTC, Graham Murray
wrote:

(Andrew Gabriel) writes:

The manufacturers are currently pushing the EU to allow them to
remove the power rating from CFL lamps, arguing that it's only
confusing consumers. Not as much as their incorrect claims of
filament lamp equivalency are.

How can a wattage figure on CFLs confuse consumers any more than that on
filament lamps?

CFLs show two wattages; the consumption and the claimed 'equivalent'. It
is the latter figure that misleads.

Manufacturers are talking rubbish; it's the'equivalent' figure that
needs fixing, and that's entirely up to them.

Indeed. Get rid of the 'equivalent' wattage and give actual wattage,
VA/mA/PF and lumens.

As for the lifespan: it should be given in hours to 90% - that'd sort 'em
out!
--
Peter.
The head of a pin will hold more angels if
it's been flattened with an angel-grinder.

On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 14:08:41 +0100, PeterC wrote...
I am still waiting to buy the fold-up car that was featured on Tomorrows
World. Apparently it would fit in a suitcase.

Where do all the suitcases in the boot then go? You'd need a car to carry
them.

Can you not get fold-up suitcases?

--
Tim Jackson
lid
(Change '.invalid' to '.com' to reply direct)

In article ,
Huge wrote:

Dimming is handy in a few cases, but hardly "essential".

Every single room in my house, other than kitchen, bathrooms & loos, has
a dimmer. Are you saying I have to throw away all those dimmers, and buy
extra lights to provide equivalent functionality,

No, I don't think I've said anything about that.

-- Richard
--
Please remember to mention me / in tapes you leave behind.

"Richard Tobin" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Huge wrote:

Dimming is handy in a few cases, but hardly "essential".

Every single room in my house, other than kitchen, bathrooms & loos, has
a dimmer. Are you saying I have to throw away all those dimmers, and buy
extra lights to provide equivalent functionality,

No, I don't think I've said anything about that.

-- Richard
--
Please remember to mention me / in tapes you leave behind.

You will need to buy dimmer compatible bulbs which are "apparently" very
expensive, on the other hand the truck drivers coming to UK from outside the
EU will do a good trade bringing the 100w ones in

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Cynic
saying something like:

The big difference being that no fold-up car has been commercially
produced (the idea was ridiculous to start with),

'Course it snot ridiculous - it was in Bugs Bunny. I seen it wiv me own
eyes.

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
om...
ARWadsworth wrote:
"Richard Tobin" wrote in message
...
In article
,
AA wrote:

With great respect, dimming is an essential part of , any modern,
interior lighting design.

But who has one of those? I'm not going to "design" the lighting
in my house, it's already been done 130 years ago. I have a lamp
with a dimmer on it, and don't feel any urgent need for more.

Dimming is handy in a few cases, but hardly "essential".

-- Richard


So what do you do when you want to seduce a woman?

Rohypnol.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk


It does save all that faffing about chatting to her and buying her drinks
etc and saves her having to try and fake an orgasm.

Stick it in the d-i-y FAQ for reference.

Adam