Hi All,

My missus recently (last Thurs week) had a new knee fitted (she didn't
fancy me d-i-y'ing it for some reason). g

She's also (still) going through 'the change' so ranges from hot to
volcano at irregular but frequent intervals so we have electric fans
installed at strategic locations here in the house and she carries a
hand fan as a survival tool.

After the op she asked if there was an electric fan available of any
sort and they found her one ("Reception, no not remove" type of
thing).

That was fine for a couple of days but then they needed it for a
'patient with a temperature' (no probs with that etc) but knowing how
dependant she is on one, I asked if it was possible to 'bring one in
from home' (or B&Q round the corner etc).

The reply was 'yes, but it will take a week to get it tested so .. '

I assume they were talking about PAT here (not biological testing) and
I was wondering what the rules were and could I have had the fan
'tested' elsewhere and would the little sticker on the plug be
sufficient 'proof' that this had been done (if not what point is there
to it) please?

All the best ..

T i m

p.s. If anyone here has been though this op and would like to share
any thoughs / advice off like please my addy is good. Thanks.

"T i m" wrote in message
...
Hi All,

My missus recently (last Thurs week) had a new knee fitted (she didn't
fancy me d-i-y'ing it for some reason). g

She's also (still) going through 'the change' so ranges from hot to
volcano at irregular but frequent intervals so we have electric fans
installed at strategic locations here in the house and she carries a
hand fan as a survival tool.

After the op she asked if there was an electric fan available of any
sort and they found her one ("Reception, no not remove" type of
thing).

That was fine for a couple of days but then they needed it for a
'patient with a temperature' (no probs with that etc) but knowing how
dependant she is on one, I asked if it was possible to 'bring one in
from home' (or B&Q round the corner etc).

The reply was 'yes, but it will take a week to get it tested so .. '

I assume they were talking about PAT here (not biological testing) and
I was wondering what the rules were and could I have had the fan
'tested' elsewhere and would the little sticker on the plug be
sufficient 'proof' that this had been done (if not what point is there
to it) please?

All the best ..

T i m

p.s. If anyone here has been though this op and would like to share
any thoughs / advice off like please my addy is good. Thanks.








I guess they can make their own rules and the staff will have to comply
(without using common sense)

On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 08:45:17 GMT, "John"
wrote:


I assume they were talking about PAT here (not biological testing) and
I was wondering what the rules were and could I have had the fan
'tested' elsewhere and would the little sticker on the plug be
sufficient 'proof' that this had been done (if not what point is there
to it) please?



I guess they can make their own rules and the staff will have to comply
(without using common sense)

Indeed, but what are the 'rules' re PAT please. Like, if I had it
tested at site A could I take it to site B and have it still 'in test'
would you know please?

I didn't feel there was a major (political) issue in this particular
ward / hospital (they seemed to turn a blind eye re numbers of
visitors, mobile phone use etc).

I felt if I had taken our own electric fan in and offered "It's ok,
this one has been tested, look points to sticker on plug" that they
would have said 'ok' (assuming that was acceptable, I wouldn't want to
case any issues for the staff etc).

All the best ..

T i m

On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 08:13:58 GMT, T i m wrote:

Hi All,

My missus recently (last Thurs week) had a new knee fitted (she didn't
fancy me d-i-y'ing it for some reason). g

She's also (still) going through 'the change' so ranges from hot to
volcano at irregular but frequent intervals so we have electric fans
installed at strategic locations here in the house and she carries a
hand fan as a survival tool.

After the op she asked if there was an electric fan available of any
sort and they found her one ("Reception, no not remove" type of
thing).

That was fine for a couple of days but then they needed it for a
'patient with a temperature' (no probs with that etc) but knowing how
dependant she is on one, I asked if it was possible to 'bring one in
from home' (or B&Q round the corner etc).

The reply was 'yes, but it will take a week to get it tested so .. '

I assume they were talking about PAT here (not biological testing) and
I was wondering what the rules were and could I have had the fan
'tested' elsewhere and would the little sticker on the plug be
sufficient 'proof' that this had been done (if not what point is there
to it) please?

All the best ..

T i m

p.s. If anyone here has been though this op and would like to share
any thoughs / advice off like please my addy is good. Thanks.



Has her GP prescribed anything for the flushes?

TBH I'd speak to the doctor in charge and explain how uncomfortable
she is and see if he can get someone to come and see her about it so
they sort her out a fan or something to deal with them.








--
http://www.orderonlinepickupinstore.co.uk
Ah fetch it yourself if you can't wait for delivery
http://www.freedeliveryuk.co.uk
Or get it delivered for free

In article ,
T i m writes:
On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 08:45:17 GMT, "John"
wrote:

I assume they were talking about PAT here (not biological testing) and
I was wondering what the rules were and could I have had the fan
'tested' elsewhere and would the little sticker on the plug be
sufficient 'proof' that this had been done (if not what point is there
to it) please?

I guess they can make their own rules and the staff will have to comply
(without using common sense)

Indeed, but what are the 'rules' re PAT please. Like, if I had it
tested at site A could I take it to site B and have it still 'in test'
would you know please?

There are no global rules -- it's up to each organisation to define
its own as part of its risk assessment process. There are a set of
IEE guidelines for PAT testing which are also recognised by HSE,
but there's no legal requirement to follow exactly those.
An organisation might decide that anything coming in from off-site
must be PAT tested before use, in which case Site A's test cert
would be worthless. A hospital might decide that they are going
to have more strict earth leakage requirements than the guidelines,
in which case again, someone else's pass might become a fail.

I felt if I had taken our own electric fan in and offered "It's ok,
this one has been tested, look points to sticker on plug" that they
would have said 'ok' (assuming that was acceptable, I wouldn't want to
case any issues for the staff etc).

They might accept that, but most likely because the staff concerned
were not that familiar with the organisation's exact requirements.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

"T i m" wrote in message
...
Hi All,

My missus recently (last Thurs week) had a new knee fitted (she didn't
fancy me d-i-y'ing it for some reason). g

She's also (still) going through 'the change' so ranges from hot to
volcano at irregular but frequent intervals so we have electric fans
installed at strategic locations here in the house and she carries a
hand fan as a survival tool.

After the op she asked if there was an electric fan available of any
sort and they found her one ("Reception, no not remove" type of
thing).

That was fine for a couple of days but then they needed it for a
'patient with a temperature' (no probs with that etc) but knowing how
dependant she is on one, I asked if it was possible to 'bring one in
from home' (or B&Q round the corner etc).

The reply was 'yes, but it will take a week to get it tested so .. '

I assume they were talking about PAT here (not biological testing) and
I was wondering what the rules were and could I have had the fan
'tested' elsewhere and would the little sticker on the plug be
sufficient 'proof' that this had been done (if not what point is there
to it) please?

All the best ..

T i m

p.s. If anyone here has been though this op and would like to share
any thoughs / advice off like please my addy is good. Thanks.


It makes me laugh that they want to test a fan, but they don't bother
cleaning the hospital properly which causes the spread of diseases.
PAT is a joke anyway, it's often a case of slapping a sticker on something.
Just pinch the sticker off another appliance - no one checks anyway.

Andrew Gabriel wrote in message
...
In article ,
T i m writes:
On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 08:45:17 GMT, "John"
wrote:

I assume they were talking about PAT here (not biological testing) and
I was wondering what the rules were and could I have had the fan
'tested' elsewhere and would the little sticker on the plug be
sufficient 'proof' that this had been done (if not what point is there
to it) please?

I guess they can make their own rules and the staff will have to comply
(without using common sense)

Indeed, but what are the 'rules' re PAT please. Like, if I had it
tested at site A could I take it to site B and have it still 'in test'
would you know please?

There are no global rules -- it's up to each organisation to define
its own as part of its risk assessment process. There are a set of
IEE guidelines for PAT testing which are also recognised by HSE,
but there's no legal requirement to follow exactly those.
An organisation might decide that anything coming in from off-site
must be PAT tested before use, in which case Site A's test cert
would be worthless. A hospital might decide that they are going
to have more strict earth leakage requirements than the guidelines,
in which case again, someone else's pass might become a fail.


From my own experience I agree with A.G.
But has the hospital got its own Electronics and Medical Engineering (EME)
dep
If they are an approachable bunch of chaps you could short circuit the
waiting time by asking them to PAT test your fan for use on a ward, worked
for me a while ago they even delivered it to the bedside and plugged it in.



-

T i m ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying :

My missus recently (last Thurs week) had a new knee fitted (she didn't
fancy me d-i-y'ing it for some reason). g

p.s. If anyone here has been though this op and would like to share
any thoughs / advice off like please my addy is good. Thanks.

My father had a _pair_ of new knees simultaneously about 18 months ago.

Taking it easy then getting off his arse and *using* them asap meant that
he got signed off the post-op physio within record time. I strongly suspect
the fact he had both done, and therefore couldn't "go easy" on the done one
helped a lot.

On 24 Jun 2007 10:28:21 GMT, (Andrew
Gabriel) wrote:

Indeed, but what are the 'rules' re PAT please. Like, if I had it
tested at site A could I take it to site B and have it still 'in test'
would you know please?

There are no global rules -- it's up to each organisation to define
its own as part of its risk assessment process. There are a set of
IEE guidelines for PAT testing which are also recognised by HSE,
but there's no legal requirement to follow exactly those.
An organisation might decide that anything coming in from off-site
must be PAT tested before use, in which case Site A's test cert
would be worthless. A hospital might decide that they are going
to have more strict earth leakage requirements than the guidelines,
in which case again, someone else's pass might become a fail.

Thanks for that Andrew. Very clear.

I felt if I had taken our own electric fan in and offered "It's ok,
this one has been tested, look points to sticker on plug" that they
would have said 'ok' (assuming that was acceptable, I wouldn't want to
case any issues for the staff etc).

They might accept that, but most likely because the staff concerned
were not that familiar with the organisation's exact requirements.

Ok, and that could have worked in our favour (in an informal sense).
"I should think that would be ok" sorta thing.

Realistically I could have bought and brought in the exact same make
and model bought from the same store as the Hospital did so
(potentially) would have been just as 'passable' as their own existing
fans and would have been visually acceptable etc (it's the same as
ours so should be ok .. ).

Anyway, she's at home now so is ok on that (cold) front! ;-)

All the best and thanks again ..

T i m

On Jun 24, 12:04 pm, "AndyT" wrote:
"T i m" wrote in messagenews:sr9s7393glc68re6obpigafo0rclc0l23c@4ax .com...

Hi All,

My missus recently (last Thurs week) had a new knee fitted (she didn't
fancy me d-i-y'ing it for some reason). g

She's also (still) going through 'the change' so ranges from hot to
volcano at irregular but frequent intervals so we have electric fans
installed at strategic locations here in the house and she carries a
hand fan as a survival tool.

After the op she asked if there was an electric fan available of any
sort and they found her one ("Reception, no not remove" type of
thing).

That was fine for a couple of days but then they needed it for a
'patient with a temperature' (no probs with that etc) but knowing how
dependant she is on one, I asked if it was possible to 'bring one in
from home' (or B&Q round the corner etc).

The reply was 'yes, but it will take a week to get it tested so .. '

I assume they were talking about PAT here (not biological testing) and
I was wondering what the rules were and could I have had the fan
'tested' elsewhere and would the little sticker on the plug be
sufficient 'proof' that this had been done (if not what point is there
to it) please?

It makes me laugh that they want to test a fan, but they don't bother
cleaning the hospital properly which causes the spread of diseases.
PAT is a joke anyway, it's often a case of slapping a sticker on something.
Just pinch the sticker off another appliance - no one checks anyway.

I'd just take the fan in and plug it in and let anyone not too busy
making up for the deadwood the government brought in as axillary
nurses from abroad, kick up whatever stink they have the time for.

I might sweeten the pot by providing a few more if there was a good
reception of the first.

I was in hospital a few years ago and the general hygiene standards
made me very nervous. It was rather like the feeling you get exploring
a deserted workshed/yard or derelict warehouse, only with people. Sort
of edgy but interesting.

I gather things have not improved. Which means they have got worse if
anything.

On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 12:04:04 +0100, "AndyT" wrote:


I assume they were talking about PAT here (not biological testing) and
I was wondering what the rules were and could I have had the fan
'tested' elsewhere and would the little sticker on the plug be
sufficient 'proof' that this had been done (if not what point is there
to it) please?


It makes me laugh that they want to test a fan,

Me too in a way, considering the state of the wiring on some of the
portable medical kit (outer sheath pulled out of plug top restraining
clamps etc).

but they don't bother
cleaning the hospital properly which causes the spread of diseases.

Well I'd have to say *this* hospital (or wing therein, not our 'local'
either) looked very clean and there was always a cleaner doing their
stuff.

PAT is a joke anyway, it's often a case of slapping a sticker on something.

I'm sure you are right ...

Just pinch the sticker off another appliance - no one checks anyway.

And a plastic (double insulated?) fan anyway ...

All the best ..

T i m

On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 10:37:23 +0100, Mogga
wrote:


She's also (still) going through 'the change' so ranges from hot to
volcano at irregular but frequent intervals so we have electric fans
installed at strategic locations here in the house and she carries a
hand fan as a survival tool.


Has her GP prescribed anything for the flushes?

I think she was on HRT for a while but came off as it didn't' help
that much and she put on more weight. ;-(

TBH I'd speak to the doctor in charge and explain how uncomfortable
she is and see if he can get someone to come and see her about it so
they sort her out a fan or something to deal with them.

Luckily she's home now so has all the fan's she needs but as it
happens a 'different' (and more friendly nurse) found her another fan
in the middle of the next night.

All the best ..

T i m

On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 08:13:58 GMT, T i m wrote:


After the op she asked if there was an electric fan available of any
sort and they found her one ("Reception, no not remove" type of
thing).

That was fine for a couple of days but then they needed it for a
'patient with a temperature' (no probs with that etc) but knowing how
dependant she is on one, I asked if it was possible to 'bring one in
from home' (or B&Q round the corner etc).

The reply was 'yes, but it will take a week to get it tested so .. '

1. remove sticky label from reception fan and stick on yours (temporarily)
or
2. word with sister and agree to buy one for ward use (after wife discharged) if
she gets it tested in next 1/2 hour...

Geo

On 24 Jun 2007 11:52:03 GMT, Adrian wrote:

T i m ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying :

My missus recently (last Thurs week) had a new knee fitted (she didn't
fancy me d-i-y'ing it for some reason). g

p.s. If anyone here has been though this op and would like to share
any thoughs / advice off like please my addy is good. Thanks.

My father had a _pair_ of new knees simultaneously about 18 months ago.

He was brave.

Taking it easy then getting off his arse and *using* them asap meant that
he got signed off the post-op physio within record time.

The best plan I understand and was my wife's had she not had some
weird reaction to the spinal and morphine.

She had the op Thursday morning and was 'rough' for a good couple of
days. Physio came round over the weekend and gave her stuff to do
whilst in bed and she was waiting outside the gym first thing Monday
morning.

I strongly suspect
the fact he had both done, and therefore couldn't "go easy" on the done one
helped a lot.

I guess it must .. no choice etc? ;-)

She pushed herself to get the required 90 deg bend and short stairs
test to get out asap (in spite of being 'happy' there (good food, bed,
staff etc)) and I brought her home Wednesday lunchtime.

I believe she's doing all the right stuff but the bit that seems to
have her worried / upset / frustrated is she can't properly 'feel' her
foot from the instep to the heel. She can feel it as such but it's
just quite numb and she get's an uncomfortable sensation when trying
to walk 'normally' (heel toe etc).

Of course it's all still early days and a pretty major op but she
compares herself with the other patients having the same op at the
same time and apparently they weren't suffering the same lack of
feeling in the foot ..?

All the best ..

T i m

T i m ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying :

My father had a _pair_ of new knees simultaneously about 18 months
ago.

He was brave.

In choosing both-at-once over one-heal-other? His reasoning was that he
only wanted to give 'em one chance to give him MRSA...

I strongly suspect the fact he had both done, and therefore couldn't "go
easy" on the done one helped a lot.

I guess it must .. no choice etc? ;-)

Indeed. Want a cuppa? No limping and going heavy on the stick "just this
once"...

I believe she's doing all the right stuff but the bit that seems to
have her worried / upset / frustrated is she can't properly 'feel' her
foot from the instep to the heel. She can feel it as such but it's
just quite numb and she get's an uncomfortable sensation when trying
to walk 'normally' (heel toe etc).

Of course it's all still early days and a pretty major op but she
compares herself with the other patients having the same op at the
same time and apparently they weren't suffering the same lack of
feeling in the foot ..?

I don't remember Dad muttering about that. Muttering about damn near
everything else, yes, but not specifically that.

On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 06:06:07 -0700, Weatherlawyer
wrote:


I'd just take the fan in and plug it in and let anyone not too busy
making up for the deadwood the government brought in as axillary
nurses from abroad, kick up whatever stink they have the time for.

;-) So as not to stir things up too much had they not found a
replacement as quickly as they did (a day) I was going to take a
biggish portable / battery jobby in there.

I might sweeten the pot by providing a few more if there was a good
reception of the first.

I was willing to do that as well.

I was in hospital a few years ago and the general hygiene standards
made me very nervous. It was rather like the feeling you get exploring
a deserted workshed/yard or derelict warehouse, only with people. Sort
of edgy but interesting.

LOL. I shouldn't laugh of course, it was just your description! ;-)

I gather things have not improved. Which means they have got worse if
anything.

Well, this ward / wing did *seem* pretty clean (in general) and
everyone seemed to be using the hand gel all the time (including us,
I1 was keeping an eye on all that sort of thing).

Mind you, we didn't choose our local hospital for just that reason ...

All the best ..

T i m

On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 13:30:04 GMT, Geo
wrote:

On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 08:13:58 GMT, T i m wrote:


After the op she asked if there was an electric fan available of any
sort and they found her one ("Reception, no not remove" type of
thing).

That was fine for a couple of days but then they needed it for a
'patient with a temperature' (no probs with that etc) but knowing how
dependant she is on one, I asked if it was possible to 'bring one in
from home' (or B&Q round the corner etc).

The reply was 'yes, but it will take a week to get it tested so .. '

1. remove sticky label from reception fan and stick on yours (temporarily)

Cheeky ;-)

or
2. word with sister and agree to buy one for ward use (after wife discharged) if
she gets it tested in next 1/2 hour...

I had thought of that and would have done so had they not found
something as soon as they had (the missues even text'd me to stand me
down) ;-)

But I guess given the choice of drugs / fans ....

All the best ..

T i m

On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 13:30:04 GMT, Geo
wrote:

On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 08:13:58 GMT, T i m wrote:


After the op she asked if there was an electric fan available of any
sort and they found her one ("Reception, no not remove" type of
thing).

That was fine for a couple of days but then they needed it for a
'patient with a temperature' (no probs with that etc) but knowing how
dependant she is on one, I asked if it was possible to 'bring one in
from home' (or B&Q round the corner etc).

The reply was 'yes, but it will take a week to get it tested so .. '

1. remove sticky label from reception fan and stick on yours (temporarily)
or
2. word with sister and agree to buy one for ward use (after wife discharged) if
she gets it tested in next 1/2 hour...

Geo
Its likely that the PAT testing of non-medical equipment is contracted
out.

Although the hospital should have procedures for acceptance testing of
electrical equipment it is unlikely that the procedures for
non-medical equipment require PAT testing before use for new
equipment.

Robert

"T i m" wrote in message
...
....
That was fine for a couple of days but then they needed it for a
'patient with a temperature' (no probs with that etc) but knowing how
dependant she is on one, I asked if it was possible to 'bring one in
from home' (or B&Q round the corner etc).

The reply was 'yes, but it will take a week to get it tested so .. '

I assume they were talking about PAT here (not biological testing) ...

You assume wrongly. There are numerous NHS, MDA, EU and international
standards that apply to equipment used in hospitals and electrical
equipment, in particular, cannot be used unless it can be demonstrated to
comply. They don't want life-support equipment failing because of
interference from another piece of equipment. Most medical equipment is made
to the standards and certified by the manufacturer, under the Medical
Devices Directive. A generic fan has no such certification and will need to
be tested, which is not something your local electrician will be equipped to
do.

Colin Bignell

On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 08:45:17 GMT, John wrote:

"T i m" wrote in message
...
Hi All,

My missus recently (last Thurs week) had a new knee fitted (she didn't
fancy me d-i-y'ing it for some reason). g

She's also (still) going through 'the change' so ranges from hot to
volcano at irregular but frequent intervals so we have electric fans
installed at strategic locations here in the house and she carries a
hand fan as a survival tool.

After the op she asked if there was an electric fan available of any
sort and they found her one ("Reception, no not remove" type of
thing).

That was fine for a couple of days but then they needed it for a
'patient with a temperature' (no probs with that etc) but knowing how
dependant she is on one, I asked if it was possible to 'bring one in
from home' (or B&Q round the corner etc).

The reply was 'yes, but it will take a week to get it tested so .. '

I assume they were talking about PAT here (not biological testing) and
I was wondering what the rules were and could I have had the fan
'tested' elsewhere and would the little sticker on the plug be
sufficient 'proof' that this had been done (if not what point is there
to it) please?

All the best ..

T i m

p.s. If anyone here has been though this op and would like to share
any thoughs / advice off like please my addy is good. Thanks.








I guess they can make their own rules and the staff will have to comply
(without using common sense)

The NHS trusts seem to insist that absolutely everything is tested before
they'll accept it - whereas every private company I've worked at (and as a
contractor, that's a fair few) accept brand new, still in it's packaging
equipment as ok until the next round of testing.

My mother-in-law was in hospital, terminally ill and immobile, with only
about a week to live. She was shoved on a three bedded ward with a broken
TV and no phone and basically left to brood. We suggested us buying a brand
new TV, but they insisted that it would have to be tested and that would
take at least a week!

SteveW

On 24 Jun 2007 13:35:23 GMT, Adrian wrote:

T i m ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying :

My father had a _pair_ of new knees simultaneously about 18 months
ago.

He was brave.

In choosing both-at-once over one-heal-other? His reasoning was that he
only wanted to give 'em one chance to give him MRSA...

Well there is some logic it that! ;-)

I strongly suspect the fact he had both done, and therefore couldn't "go
easy" on the done one helped a lot.

I guess it must .. no choice etc? ;-)

Indeed. Want a cuppa? No limping and going heavy on the stick "just this
once"...

LOL .. I'm surprised he didn't call social services on you all!


Of course it's all still early days and a pretty major op but she
compares herself with the other patients having the same op at the
same time and apparently they weren't suffering the same lack of
feeling in the foot ..?

I don't remember Dad muttering about that.

I was hoping you did ... I read on the net somewhere .. "no feeling
in the foot happens in 1 in 300 cases" sorta thing .. just our luck
.... (now there's a good chance of her falling in the concrete garage
base I'm saving up for her to do soon).

Muttering about damn near
everything else, yes, but not specifically that.

Awww bless. He's yer Dad! (I'm not particularly 'friends' with mine
but we know where each other are should we need something ..).

All the best ..

T i m

On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 15:17:15 +0100, lid wrote:

Its likely that the PAT testing of non-medical equipment is contracted
out.

Quite possibly.

Although the hospital should have procedures for acceptance testing of
electrical equipment it is unlikely that the procedures for
non-medical equipment require PAT testing before use for new
equipment.

It coming with it's own cert from the manufacturers and probably
pretty safe anyway?

"Sorry, our life support machine just electrocuted your Granny" .. ;-(

All the best ..

T i m

On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 16:08:22 +0100, "nightjar" nightjar@insert my
surname here.uk.com wrote:


"T i m" wrote in message
.. .
...
That was fine for a couple of days but then they needed it for a
'patient with a temperature' (no probs with that etc) but knowing how
dependant she is on one, I asked if it was possible to 'bring one in
from home' (or B&Q round the corner etc).

The reply was 'yes, but it will take a week to get it tested so .. '

I assume they were talking about PAT here (not biological testing) ...

You assume wrongly. There are numerous NHS, MDA, EU and international
standards that apply to equipment used in hospitals and electrical
equipment, in particular, cannot be used unless it can be demonstrated to
comply. They don't want life-support equipment failing because of
interference from another piece of equipment. Most medical equipment is made
to the standards and certified by the manufacturer, under the Medical
Devices Directive. A generic fan has no such certification and will need to
be tested, which is not something your local electrician will be equipped to
do.

Colin Bignell

As long as the fan is CE marked it will be accepted. Non-medical
equipment and IT equipment unless connected to a Medical System will
only be PAT tested and often only when the annual routine test comes
around for that location.

Medical Electrical equipment is a different matter.

Robert

On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 16:18:52 +0100, Steve Walker
wrote:


The NHS trusts seem to insist that absolutely everything is tested before
they'll accept it - whereas every private company I've worked at (and as a
contractor, that's a fair few) accept brand new, still in it's packaging
equipment as ok until the next round of testing.

Which I think makes sense, considering the cost of this stuff (but I
guess that doesn't actually mean much in itself). More likely they
want to minimise the risk of some big law suit should the worst
happen.

My mother-in-law was in hospital, terminally ill and immobile, with only
about a week to live.

;-(

She was shoved on a three bedded ward with a broken
TV and no phone and basically left to brood.

Nice (Not)

We suggested us buying a brand
new TV, but they insisted that it would have to be tested and that would
take at least a week!

That's compassion for you.

I ended up fixing the headset for my MIL when she was in hospital
last. I just did it quietly (even borrowing some Selotape off
reception in lieu of insulation tape g) and re-patched the wires
back inside one of the headset enclosures (always carry the Leatherman
PST).

Easier than trying to find a working replacement ...

All the best ..

T i m

p.s. It's when you see / hear of all this broken / faulty stuff makes
me want to go round and sort it all (for the patients rather than the
system) but I guess politics / HSE would stop you .. (and a good job
in some cases).

T i m ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying :

My father had a _pair_ of new knees simultaneously about 18 months
ago.

He was brave.

In choosing both-at-once over one-heal-other? His reasoning was that
he only wanted to give 'em one chance to give him MRSA...

Well there is some logic it that! ;-)

I strongly suspect the fact he had both done, and therefore
couldn't "go easy" on the done one helped a lot.

I guess it must .. no choice etc? ;-)

Indeed. Want a cuppa? No limping and going heavy on the stick "just
this once"...

LOL .. I'm surprised he didn't call social services on you all!

Heh. I live 150 miles away... (but, yes, I did stay with him for the first
week after he was out of hospital)

On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 16:08:22 +0100, "nightjar" nightjar@insert my
surname here.uk.com wrote:


"T i m" wrote in message
.. .
...
That was fine for a couple of days but then they needed it for a
'patient with a temperature' (no probs with that etc) but knowing how
dependant she is on one, I asked if it was possible to 'bring one in
from home' (or B&Q round the corner etc).

The reply was 'yes, but it will take a week to get it tested so .. '

I assume they were talking about PAT here (not biological testing) ...

You assume wrongly.

Ok ..

There are numerous NHS, MDA, EU and international
standards that apply to equipment used in hospitals and electrical
equipment, in particular, cannot be used unless it can be demonstrated to
comply.

Ok ..

They don't want life-support equipment failing because of
interference from another piece of equipment.

Makes sense ..

Most medical equipment is made
to the standards and certified by the manufacturer, under the Medical
Devices Directive.

Ok ..

A generic fan has no such certification and will need to
be tested, which is not something your local electrician will be equipped to
do.

Ok. The only flaw I see with that in the real world is would that also
apply to 'kit' used anywhere in the hospital Colin, like fans bought
for use on 'reception' (that then end up on a ward), a paper shredder
in an office (backing onto a ward) the maintenance persons electric
drill or the TV used in the security hut? (genuine question).

Ironically the 'rules'[1] allowed 'battery' appliances and that could
include HF inverters and the like (and potentially worse for the
reasons you suggest above).

All the best ..

T i m

[1] I guess they may have been simplistic interpretations thereof.

In article ,
Steve Walker wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 08:45:17 GMT, John wrote:

My mother-in-law was in hospital, terminally ill and immobile, with only
about a week to live. She was shoved on a three bedded ward with a broken
TV and no phone and basically left to brood. We suggested us buying a brand
new TV, but they insisted that it would have to be tested and that would
take at least a week!

A friend was in hospital for a couple of weeks and stuck in a ward with
5 other people with only a broken TV that wouldn't tune to anything for
more than 2 mins.

I took in the kids little DVD player that they use in the car and a scart
adaptor and a Fawlty Towers box set.

Apparantly they were told to turn it off and unplug it as it hadn't been
tested. 6 very bored, ill patients quickly suggested otherwise (using
just a couple of choice words apparantly) and it was left alone and not
mentioned for the rest of his stay

Darren

On Sun, 24 Jun 07 18:32:20 GMT, (dmc) wrote:

In article ,
Steve Walker wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 08:45:17 GMT, John wrote:

My mother-in-law was in hospital, terminally ill and immobile, with only
about a week to live. She was shoved on a three bedded ward with a broken
TV and no phone and basically left to brood. We suggested us buying a brand
new TV, but they insisted that it would have to be tested and that would
take at least a week!

A friend was in hospital for a couple of weeks and stuck in a ward with
5 other people with only a broken TV that wouldn't tune to anything for
more than 2 mins.

I took in the kids little DVD player that they use in the car and a scart
adaptor and a Fawlty Towers box set.

Apparantly they were told to turn it off and unplug it as it hadn't been
tested. 6 very bored, ill patients quickly suggested otherwise (using
just a couple of choice words apparantly) and it was left alone and not
mentioned for the rest of his stay

Good on em .. power to the people! [1]

All the best ..

T i m

[1] As long as it's 'radiations' didn't stop anyones pacemaker etc ...
apart from laughing from Fawlty Towers that is .. ;-)

On 24 Jun 2007 15:36:25 GMT, Adrian wrote:


Indeed. Want a cuppa? No limping and going heavy on the stick "just
this once"...

LOL .. I'm surprised he didn't call social services on you all!

Heh. I live 150 miles away...

Ah, that is a bit of a round trip for a 2 hr visit eh ... ;-(

(but, yes, I did stay with him for the first week after he was out of hospital)

weg

All the best ..

T i m

On Jun 24, 1:55 pm, T i m wrote:
On 24 Jun 2007 10:28:21 GMT, Realistically I could have bought and brought in the exact same make
and model bought from the same store as the Hospital did so
(potentially) would have been just as 'passable' as their own existing
fans and would have been visually acceptable etc (it's the same as
ours so should be ok .. ).

In a similar situation, but a residential home rather than a hospital,
brand new items were OK, only used items had to be tested first.

Local rules may be different.

MBQ

On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 05:32:19 -0700, "
wrote:

On Jun 24, 1:55 pm, T i m wrote:
On 24 Jun 2007 10:28:21 GMT, Realistically I could have bought and brought in the exact same make
and model bought from the same store as the Hospital did so
(potentially) would have been just as 'passable' as their own existing
fans and would have been visually acceptable etc (it's the same as
ours so should be ok .. ).

In a similar situation, but a residential home rather than a hospital,
brand new items were OK, only used items had to be tested first.

Ah, there's a thought. Especially if it was brand new, exactly the
same as they had and we were going to leave it there ;-)

Local rules may be different.

Indeed. And to a degree like any of this sort of thing, possibly
dependant on who you actually see at the time.

Like when I was stopped several times in a couple of weeks by the
Police (over 30 years ago) as they were having a thing on 'vans'. 4 of
the 5 times I was just asked the basic questions and sent on my way ..
the last time I was done for 'exceeding the speed limit for a goods
vehicle' [1] (63 mph in a 70 mph zone) .. even with 'rules' it can all
be down to discretion?


All the best ..

T i m

Just taking her to the docs to have the staples removed .. I'll stay
in the car shudder

[1] Morris Minor Van

On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 14:24:06 GMT, T i m wrote:


Just taking her to the docs to have the staples removed .. I'll stay
in the car shudder

[1] Morris Minor Van

I got pulled over for exceeding the "van" speed limit in an Austin A35
van.

Mr Plod said "If you were to have a puncture in a vehicle like this
you would not be able to control it at all"

The A35 van was derived from the A35 car!

Well, I see what he means, but the A35 car could legally be driven at
70 mph in those days. ;-)

DG

On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 18:09:26 UTC, Derek Geldard
wrote:

On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 14:24:06 GMT, T i m wrote:


Just taking her to the docs to have the staples removed .. I'll stay
in the car shudder

[1] Morris Minor Van

I got pulled over for exceeding the "van" speed limit in an Austin A35
van.

Mr Plod said "If you were to have a puncture in a vehicle like this
you would not be able to control it at all"

The A35 van was derived from the A35 car!

Well, I see what he means, but the A35 car could legally be driven at
70 mph in those days. ;-)

And with a single non-redundant rear braking system too! (well, part of
it.,..)

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

In article ,
T i m writes:
On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 05:32:19 -0700, "
wrote:
In a similar situation, but a residential home rather than a hospital,
brand new items were OK, only used items had to be tested first.

Ah, there's a thought. Especially if it was brand new, exactly the
same as they had and we were going to leave it there ;-)

I wrote the rules for a former employer. That specified that
brand new appliances with molded-on mains plugs didn't need
testing unless there was any suspicion of damage in transit.
In our situation, I deemed that to be an acceptable risk,
and never did come across anything which failed dangerously
as a result.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 15:32:42 GMT, T i m wrote:

On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 16:18:52 +0100, Steve Walker
wrote:


The NHS trusts seem to insist that absolutely everything is tested before
they'll accept it - whereas every private company I've worked at (and as a
contractor, that's a fair few) accept brand new, still in it's packaging
equipment as ok until the next round of testing.

Which I think makes sense, considering the cost of this stuff (but I
guess that doesn't actually mean much in itself). More likely they
want to minimise the risk of some big law suit should the worst
happen.

My mother-in-law was in hospital, terminally ill and immobile, with only
about a week to live.

;-(

She was shoved on a three bedded ward with a broken
TV and no phone and basically left to brood.

Nice (Not)

We suggested us buying a brand
new TV, but they insisted that it would have to be tested and that would
take at least a week!

That's compassion for you.

I ended up fixing the headset for my MIL when she was in hospital
last. I just did it quietly (even borrowing some Selotape off
reception in lieu of insulation tape g) and re-patched the wires
back inside one of the headset enclosures (always carry the Leatherman
PST).

Easier than trying to find a working replacement ...

All the best ..

T i m

p.s. It's when you see / hear of all this broken / faulty stuff makes
me want to go round and sort it all (for the patients rather than the
system) but I guess politics / HSE would stop you .. (and a good job
in some cases).

They had had patientline installed (with phone, radio, TV etc.), but
because it was an elderly ward, they all paid reduced rates and the company
made no profit - so they ripped it all out!

SteveW

On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 19:09:26 +0100, Derek Geldard wrote:

On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 14:24:06 GMT, T i m wrote:


Just taking her to the docs to have the staples removed .. I'll stay
in the car shudder

[1] Morris Minor Van

I got pulled over for exceeding the "van" speed limit in an Austin A35
van.

Mr Plod said "If you were to have a puncture in a vehicle like this
you would not be able to control it at all"

The A35 van was derived from the A35 car!

Well, I see what he means, but the A35 car could legally be driven at
70 mph in those days. ;-)

DG

I thought I remembered something about this point, so just checked and the
van speed limit does not apply to car derived vans of less than two tons
maximum laden weight.

SteveW

On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 19:48:03 +0100, Steve Walker
wrote:

On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 19:09:26 +0100, Derek Geldard wrote:

On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 14:24:06 GMT, T i m wrote:


Just taking her to the docs to have the staples removed .. I'll stay
in the car shudder

[1] Morris Minor Van

I got pulled over for exceeding the "van" speed limit in an Austin A35
van.

Mr Plod said "If you were to have a puncture in a vehicle like this
you would not be able to control it at all"

The A35 van was derived from the A35 car!

Well, I see what he means, but the A35 car could legally be driven at
70 mph in those days. ;-)

DG

I thought I remembered something about this point, so just checked and the
van speed limit does not apply to car derived vans of less than two tons
maximum laden weight.

And those were sorta the lines I was thinking at the time .. turned
out is was the lack of windows (2 sq ft at each side + 2 x 100 sq in
at the rear I believe)?

The issue for me at the time was I was driving well under the actual
speed limit for the road, on a clear dry day, on an empty road (many
were in those days g) in a fully legal vehicle with a full clean
licence and in a safe manner. I was respectful to the Policeman and it
still became my 'first offence' (and won me an endorsement, £15 fine,
£5 costs).

Like I said, some folk don't understand the concept of 'discretion'
...

All the best ..

T i m

On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 19:42:22 +0100, Steve Walker
wrote:


p.s. It's when you see / hear of all this broken / faulty stuff makes
me want to go round and sort it all (for the patients rather than the
system) but I guess politics / HSE would stop you .. (and a good job
in some cases).

They had had patientline installed (with phone, radio, TV etc.), but
because it was an elderly ward, they all paid reduced rates and the company
made no profit - so they ripped it all out!

Yeah, I saw that on the news a while back. I know they have to make a
living out of this sort of stuff but some of the prices did seem a bit
high (especially the telephone costs and I might consider that an
'essential' if you are bed ridden, aren't allowed to use your own
phone and need to stay in touch with family etc.

Then there is the question of 'would you want to convalesce in a bed
next to someone running their business on the phone all day ...' (mind
you, they would probably do that anyway no mater what the charges
were).

All the best ..

T i m

On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 19:48:03 +0100, Steve Walker
wrote:

On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 19:09:26 +0100, Derek Geldard wrote:

On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 14:24:06 GMT, T i m wrote:


Just taking her to the docs to have the staples removed .. I'll stay
in the car shudder

[1] Morris Minor Van

I got pulled over for exceeding the "van" speed limit in an Austin A35
van.

Mr Plod said "If you were to have a puncture in a vehicle like this
you would not be able to control it at all"

The A35 van was derived from the A35 car!

Well, I see what he means, but the A35 car could legally be driven at
70 mph in those days. ;-)

DG

I thought I remembered something about this point, so just checked and the
van speed limit does not apply to car derived vans of less than two tons
maximum laden weight.

Gentlemen. ;-)

I was talking about 1968 !

DG

On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 19:35:59 GMT, T i m wrote:

On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 19:42:22 +0100, Steve Walker
wrote:

Yeah, I saw that on the news a while back. I know they have to make a
living out of this sort of stuff but some of the prices did seem a bit
high (especially the telephone costs and I might consider that an
'essential' if you are bed ridden, aren't allowed to use your own
phone and need to stay in touch with family etc.

Any phone conversation in a closed community isolates the individual
from what is going on in their surroundings.

I once went to pick up a relative (Mother in law) who had been in for
a knee operation.

I'd been given a time of 9-00am, the car parking gestapo guy let me
in, but then started harrassing me after 5 minutes because our
relative hadn't come out and we hadn't buggered off.

When she finally came out, about 9-40am it turned out that she was
packed and all ready to leave the ward on time but "The Doctor" came
in and started "His rounds". Semingly no-one was allowed to walk
through the ward whilst "The Doctor" was doing "His Rounds", meanwhile
I was being constantly abused by the car park gestapo outside.

So-oo I just wonder how "The Doctor" would react to going into a ward
where half of the inmates were ratcheting on the phone. Would he
expect all of them to immediately terminate their conversations, so he
could promenade through the ward in Papal Majesty, Palm Fronds laid
before his feet?.

Then there is the question of 'would you want to convalesce in a bed
next to someone running their business on the phone all day ...' (mind
you, they would probably do that anyway no mater what the charges
were).

Billions of arseholes in this world.

DG