I just bought a Freecom USB DDTV stick so I can watch (and record)
DDTV on my PC, however as my reception/(signal strength) is not too good
I had to buy a signal booster as well as I have to split the signal, it is
one of those
ones you plug in to the mains so I used it in the 'living room' where both
the TV and PC are. It seems to work find, however I an not too sure if the
picture(s) are a little more 'fuzzy', perhaps due to noise from the
amplifier?
Anyway I have decent enough pictures on both 'sets'.
I did think I would be better off with the booster in the loft closer to the
original signal, it could power the connection in the kitchen from their
too, and I could use a passive splitter downstairs?, however I have no
powerpoint
in the loft. Obviously there are wires for lighting in the loft, but will
they
only work when the light is switched on?
I could simply run an extension cable up there, but that wold lok a bit
messy.


Incidently the Freecom USB stick seemed more sensitive than my
Sagem Freeview box. When I tried with a passive splitter I got a
great picture on the PC, but bugger all on the TV, and this is
despite the cable to the Freecom stick being of (significantly)
lower quality (poorer shielding).
However Sagem's user interface and EPG seemed much better.

"Bazzer Smith" wrote in message
...
I just bought a Freecom USB DDTV stick so I can watch (and record)
DDTV on my PC, however as my reception/(signal strength) is not too good
I had to buy a signal booster as well as I have to split the signal, it is
one of those
ones you plug in to the mains so I used it in the 'living room' where both
the TV and PC are. It seems to work find, however I an not too sure if the
picture(s) are a little more 'fuzzy', perhaps due to noise from the
amplifier?
Anyway I have decent enough pictures on both 'sets'.
I did think I would be better off with the booster in the loft closer to
the
original signal, it could power the connection in the kitchen from their
too, and I could use a passive splitter downstairs?, however I have no
powerpoint
in the loft. Obviously there are wires for lighting in the loft, but will
they
only work when the light is switched on?
I could simply run an extension cable up there, but that wold lok a bit
messy.


This has been covered in depth before so a Google will help you.
Briefly, the nearer to the aerial you amplify the signal the better,
although always keep amplifiers a good metre or so from the aerial.

To power the amplifier in the loft you can take a feed from the lighting
circuit, if you take it from the supply between each light rather than a
switch wire you won't have to worry about it only working when the light is
on. Open up a convenient ceiling rose upstairs and you will be able to trace
the feed cables, and tap in there. Sleeve your earth cables!

If the amplifier has a flying power lead, snip off the plug and connect it
to the lighting circuit via a 3amp fused connection unit with double pole
switching http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...27148&ts=67719

If the amplifier is built into a 13 amp plug (a wall wart) use the
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...27148&ts=67719 with a 3amp
fuse to feed a standard 13 amp socket and plug it in there.

This prevents any future occupiers using your socket to plug in a 3kw fan
heater which would blow the fuse in the consumer unit and leave them in the
loft in darkness! (Using a 3 amp fuse in the loft provides some
discrimination which should hopefully fail before the CU fuse does.)

Bazzer Smith wrote:

I just bought a Freecom USB DDTV stick so I can watch (and record)
DDTV on my PC, however as my reception/(signal strength) is not too good
I had to buy a signal booster as well as I have to split the signal, it is
one of those
ones you plug in to the mains so I used it in the 'living room' where both
the TV and PC are. It seems to work find, however I an not too sure if the
picture(s) are a little more 'fuzzy', perhaps due to noise from the
amplifier?
Anyway I have decent enough pictures on both 'sets'.
I did think I would be better off with the booster in the loft closer to the
original signal, it could power the connection in the kitchen from their
too, and I could use a passive splitter downstairs?, however I have no
powerpoint in the loft. Obviously there are wires for lighting in the loft, but will
they only work when the light is switched on?
I could simply run an extension cable up there, but that wold lok a bit
messy.

For the best signal (technically, signal-to-noise ratio) you need to
boost the signal as near as you can get to the aerial; in your case,
that's in the loft. My booster is in the loft, and I power it from
downstairs with an extension cable in the same wall-channel as the
pipes from the central heating boiler.

Using a splitter downstairs is OK.

On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 10:26:06 +0100, Kim Bolton
wrote:

For the best signal (technically, signal-to-noise ratio)

a pedant responds with (signal+noise)-to-noise ratio


--
Regards, Paul Herber, Sandrila Ltd. http://www.pherber.com/
Electronics for Visio http://www.electronics.sandrila.co.uk/

Paul Herber wrote:

On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 10:26:06 +0100, Kim Bolton
wrote:

For the best signal (technically, signal-to-noise ratio)

a pedant responds with (signal+noise)-to-noise ratio

....your contribution to the OP being...what, exactly?

Sheesh!

Kim Bolton wrote:


Paul Herber wrote:

On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 10:26:06 +0100, Kim Bolton
wrote:

For the best signal (technically, signal-to-noise ratio)

a pedant responds with (signal+noise)-to-noise ratio

...your contribution to the OP being...what, exactly?

And your's being?
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

Phil Cook wrote:

Kim Bolton wrote:


Paul Herber wrote:

On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 10:26:06 +0100, Kim Bolton
wrote:

For the best signal (technically, signal-to-noise ratio)

a pedant responds with (signal+noise)-to-noise ratio

...your contribution to the OP being...what, exactly?

And your's being?

Wot I said earlier. Wot woz yours?

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
...
ones you plug in to the mains so I used it in the 'living room' where
both
the TV and PC are. It seems to work find, however I an not too sure if
the
picture(s) are a little more 'fuzzy', perhaps due to noise from the
amplifier?

This is a digital receiver, right? A poor signal is not indicated by
fuzziness. Instead, the picture is more likely to break up into squares or
not be received at all.


Yea I kind of know that, the picture I probably the same but I am just
'looking for' interference. I was thinking maybe small bit of interference
might cause 'fuzziness', anyway it says 98% signal quality, which is the
highest it has ever registered, it has never said 100%. So I think
98% might mean 100%, either that or it's because the aerial is in th loft.


Your fuzziness might be caused by:

1. TV companies insisting on still transmitting interlaced signals that
only
flickery pre 1990s TVs can display properly.

I think they reduce bit rates too, to squeeae in more channels.


2. Your PC screen being of significantly higher quality than an old CRT
TV,
so the imperfections in the picture are more apparent.

3. Some sort of software issue, such as turning on some sort of filter
that
you don't need.

Christian.

"Bazzer Smith" wrote in message
...
Obviously there are wires for lighting in the loft, but will they
only work when the light is switched on?

Given this pointer to the level of Mr Smith's electrical expertise, I really
think that subsequent posters who encourage him to make a connection to a
lighting circuit are offering dangerous advice.

Bill

"Bill Wright" wrote in message
...

"Bazzer Smith" wrote in message
...
Obviously there are wires for lighting in the loft, but will they
only work when the light is switched on?

Given this pointer to the level of Mr Smith's electrical expertise, I
really think that subsequent posters who encourage him to make a
connection to a lighting circuit are offering dangerous advice.

Yes, I have a degree in electronics, so I better call in a professional.
The course didn't cover house wiring anyway, and even if it did I would
missed the lectures as I did with most.


Bill

"Bazzer Smith" wrote in message
...

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
...
ones you plug in to the mains so I used it in the 'living room' where
both
the TV and PC are. It seems to work find, however I an not too sure if
the
picture(s) are a little more 'fuzzy', perhaps due to noise from the
amplifier?

This is a digital receiver, right? A poor signal is not indicated by
fuzziness. Instead, the picture is more likely to break up into squares
or
not be received at all.


Yea I kind of know that, the picture I probably the same but I am just
'looking for' interference. I was thinking maybe small bit of interference
might cause 'fuzziness', anyway it says 98% signal quality, which is the
highest it has ever registered, it has never said 100%. So I think
98% might mean 100%, either that or it's because the aerial is in th loft.


Actually I have fixed the 'fuzziness' by connecting to the TV via
scart, I was using a RF connection and something was interfering
with it. I heard a police car do past and I noticed it produced
and interference pattern, which gave me a clue to the problem.



Your fuzziness might be caused by:

1. TV companies insisting on still transmitting interlaced signals that
only
flickery pre 1990s TVs can display properly.

I think they reduce bit rates too, to squeeae in more channels.


2. Your PC screen being of significantly higher quality than an old CRT
TV,
so the imperfections in the picture are more apparent.

3. Some sort of software issue, such as turning on some sort of filter
that
you don't need.

Christian.

What about Excel, Word, Access or any other part of Microsoft office in the
loft? Surely it's not right to alienate one application to a hot dark
place!!

Cheers

John

"John" wrote in message
...
What about Excel, Word, Access or any other part of Microsoft office in
the loft? Surely it's not right to alienate one application to a hot dark
place!!

Actually I did try to get an answer from google, I think you can guess
why the results were not particularly helpful!!!!!!!!
But if you can't............
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en...Searc h&meta=



Cheers

John

"Bazzer Smith" wrote in message
...
I just bought a Freecom USB DDTV stick so I can watch (and record)
DDTV

DTT?


--
MESSAGE ENDS.
John Porcella

"Bill Wright" wrote in message
...

"Bazzer Smith" wrote in message
...
Obviously there are wires for lighting in the loft, but will they
only work when the light is switched on?

Given this pointer to the level of Mr Smith's electrical expertise, I
really think that subsequent posters who encourage him to make a
connection to a lighting circuit are offering dangerous advice.

Bill

Couldn't agree more - and most eloquently put, if I may be so bold. What's
more, new laws about such things prohibit dabbling, I believe, except by
qualified personnel (competent isn't enough these days, so even a
knowledgeable mate is a dubious solution methinks?).

"John Porcella" wrote in message
...

"Bazzer Smith" wrote in message
...
I just bought a Freecom USB DDTV stick so I can watch (and record)
DDTV

DTT?

Digitital Domestic TV.



--
MESSAGE ENDS.
John Porcella

On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 15:58:58 GMT, "Bazzer Smith" had
this to say:


"John Porcella" wrote in message
...

"Bazzer Smith" wrote in message
...
I just bought a Freecom USB DDTV stick so I can watch (and record)
DDTV

DTT?

Digitital Domestic TV.

Digital Terrestrial TV

--
Frank Erskine

"Owain" wrote in message
...
Chas Gill wrote:
"Bill Wright" wrote
Obviously there are wires for lighting in the loft, but will they
only work when the light is switched on?
Given this pointer to the level of Mr Smith's electrical expertise, I
really think that subsequent posters who encourage him to make a
connection to a lighting circuit are offering dangerous advice.

Can't help thinking that encouraging him up a ladder might be unwise
enough.

Couldn't agree more - and most eloquently put, if I may be so bold.
What's more, new laws about such things prohibit dabbling, I believe,
except by qualified personnel (competent isn't enough these days, so even
a knowledgeable mate is a dubious solution methinks?).

No.

Part P does not apply to extensions off existing circuits apart from
kitchens and bathrooms. Part P does not require the work to be done by
either a competent or a qualified person.

Owain


Oh, dear! Got it all wrong again.

"Frank Erskine" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 15:58:58 GMT, "Bazzer Smith" had
this to say:


"John Porcella" wrote in message
...

"Bazzer Smith" wrote in message
...
I just bought a Freecom USB DDTV stick so I can watch (and record)
DDTV

DTT?

Digitital Domestic TV.

Digital Terrestrial TV

Can't get that in my area.


--
Frank Erskine

"Doctor D" wrote in message
...

"Bazzer Smith" wrote in message
...
I just bought a Freecom USB DDTV stick so I can watch (and record)
DDTV on my PC, however as my reception/(signal strength) is not too good
I had to buy a signal booster as well as I have to split the signal, it
is
one of those
ones you plug in to the mains so I used it in the 'living room' where
both
the TV and PC are. It seems to work find, however I an not too sure if
the
picture(s) are a little more 'fuzzy', perhaps due to noise from the
amplifier?
Anyway I have decent enough pictures on both 'sets'.
I did think I would be better off with the booster in the loft closer to
the
original signal, it could power the connection in the kitchen from their
too, and I could use a passive splitter downstairs?, however I have no
powerpoint
in the loft. Obviously there are wires for lighting in the loft, but will
they
only work when the light is switched on?
I could simply run an extension cable up there, but that wold lok a bit
messy.


This has been covered in depth before so a Google will help you.
Briefly, the nearer to the aerial you amplify the signal the better,
although always keep amplifiers a good metre or so from the aerial.

To power the amplifier in the loft you can take a feed from the lighting
circuit, if you take it from the supply between each light rather than a
switch wire you won't have to worry about it only working when the light
is
on. Open up a convenient ceiling rose upstairs and you will be able to
trace
the feed cables, and tap in there. Sleeve your earth cables!

If the amplifier has a flying power lead, snip off the plug and connect it
to the lighting circuit via a 3amp fused connection unit with double pole
switching http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...27148&ts=67719

If the amplifier is built into a 13 amp plug (a wall wart) use the
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...27148&ts=67719 with a 3amp
fuse to feed a standard 13 amp socket and plug it in there.

This prevents any future occupiers using your socket to plug in a 3kw fan
heater which would blow the fuse in the consumer unit and leave them in
the
loft in darkness! (Using a 3 amp fuse in the loft provides some
discrimination which should hopefully fail before the CU fuse does.)



Thanks. The problem with asking such questions is that the respondant
usually assumes you are familiar with the terms and jargon of the trade.
Indeed I have a DIY manual which falls into that trap!!
The tell you lots of things you don't what to know and omit the bits you
do!!
"feed from the lighting circuit, if you take it from the supply between each
light"

I assume a 'feed' is some sort of wire, rather than a ready made meal.

Anyway OK if I open up the ceiling flower I will see lots of wires
I did last time I tried it :O)
So how will that help? You see I am not familliar with household wiring,
If I was I propably wouldn't be asking would I!!

Anyway as far as I can see there only need to be two wires, a live one
(when switched on), and a return wire.
Anyway I will assume there will be a whole bumch of wires there as that
is what you imply.

"Sleeve your earth cables"???? Sleeve? I don't think I have an earth cable
that I am aware of? What can all that mean?

"flying power lead"... hmmm....is that something to with aviation, will I
need
to take flying lessons?


OK I will stop this nonsense, What I am perhaps thinking of doing is taking
a cheapo short (four-way) extention cable (costs about £1-£2) and taking
off the plug to expose the live earth and neutral wires.
Then I will try to connect them to the existing wires somehow from the
ceiling rose.

Anyway acording to this diagram I wont find the 'always live' wire at the
ceils rose.
So how do I find it?
I guess I need to find the wire from the switch, fortunately I will be
using a bathroom light which has a switch in the ceiling so that should give
me a good clue. There will be an alway live wire there.
So......... I will be able to get a live and neutral wire at least, not sure
if
there is any earth (only remember seing two wires when I loooked in the
loft.

So I can either forget the earth all togeather or run a wire to a bit
too exposed pipe work. I guess I can test if it is earthed
by touching it with the live wire :O)

That way I will have four power points in the loft and still have a
plug on my amp, which incidently is basically a 'plug' ie it
has no cable.

"Bazzer Smith" wrote in message
...

"Doctor D" wrote in message
...

"Bazzer Smith" wrote in message
...
I just bought a Freecom USB DDTV stick so I can watch (and record)
DDTV on my PC, however as my reception/(signal strength) is not too good
I had to buy a signal booster as well as I have to split the signal, it
is
one of those
ones you plug in to the mains so I used it in the 'living room' where
both
the TV and PC are. It seems to work find, however I an not too sure if
the
picture(s) are a little more 'fuzzy', perhaps due to noise from the
amplifier?
Anyway I have decent enough pictures on both 'sets'.
I did think I would be better off with the booster in the loft closer to
the
original signal, it could power the connection in the kitchen from their
too, and I could use a passive splitter downstairs?, however I have no
powerpoint
in the loft. Obviously there are wires for lighting in the loft, but
will
they
only work when the light is switched on?
I could simply run an extension cable up there, but that wold lok a bit
messy.


This has been covered in depth before so a Google will help you.
Briefly, the nearer to the aerial you amplify the signal the better,
although always keep amplifiers a good metre or so from the aerial.

To power the amplifier in the loft you can take a feed from the lighting
circuit, if you take it from the supply between each light rather than a
switch wire you won't have to worry about it only working when the light
is
on. Open up a convenient ceiling rose upstairs and you will be able to
trace
the feed cables, and tap in there. Sleeve your earth cables!

If the amplifier has a flying power lead, snip off the plug and connect
it
to the lighting circuit via a 3amp fused connection unit with double pole
switching http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...27148&ts=67719

If the amplifier is built into a 13 amp plug (a wall wart) use the
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...27148&ts=67719 with a 3amp
fuse to feed a standard 13 amp socket and plug it in there.

This prevents any future occupiers using your socket to plug in a 3kw fan
heater which would blow the fuse in the consumer unit and leave them in
the
loft in darkness! (Using a 3 amp fuse in the loft provides some
discrimination which should hopefully fail before the CU fuse does.)



Thanks. The problem with asking such questions is that the respondant
usually assumes you are familiar with the terms and jargon of the trade.
Indeed I have a DIY manual which falls into that trap!!
The tell you lots of things you don't what to know and omit the bits you
do!!
"feed from the lighting circuit, if you take it from the supply between
each light"

I assume a 'feed' is some sort of wire, rather than a ready made meal.

Anyway OK if I open up the ceiling flower I will see lots of wires
I did last time I tried it :O)
So how will that help? You see I am not familliar with household wiring,
If I was I propably wouldn't be asking would I!!

Anyway as far as I can see there only need to be two wires, a live one
(when switched on), and a return wire.
Anyway I will assume there will be a whole bumch of wires there as that
is what you imply.

"Sleeve your earth cables"???? Sleeve? I don't think I have an earth cable
that I am aware of? What can all that mean?

"flying power lead"... hmmm....is that something to with aviation, will I
need
to take flying lessons?


OK I will stop this nonsense, What I am perhaps thinking of doing is
taking
a cheapo short (four-way) extention cable (costs about £1-£2) and taking
off the plug to expose the live earth and neutral wires.
Then I will try to connect them to the existing wires somehow from the
ceiling rose.

Anyway acording to this diagram I wont find the 'always live' wire at the
ceils rose.
So how do I find it?
I guess I need to find the wire from the switch, fortunately I will be
using a bathroom light which has a switch in the ceiling so that should
give
me a good clue. There will be an alway live wire there.
So......... I will be able to get a live and neutral wire at least, not
sure if
there is any earth (only remember seing two wires when I loooked in the
loft.

So I can either forget the earth all togeather or run a wire to a bit
too exposed pipe work. I guess I can test if it is earthed
by touching it with the live wire :O)

That way I will have four power points in the loft and still have a
plug on my amp, which incidently is basically a 'plug' ie it
has no cable.


I forgot this limk I was looking at.

http://www.diydoctor.org.uk/projects...d_switches.htm

Thanks anyway.

"Bazzer Smith" wrote in message
...

"Doctor D" wrote in message
...

"Bazzer Smith" wrote in message
...
I just bought a Freecom USB DDTV stick so I can watch (and record)
DDTV on my PC, however as my reception/(signal strength) is not too good
I had to buy a signal booster as well as I have to split the signal, it
is
one of those
ones you plug in to the mains so I used it in the 'living room' where
both
the TV and PC are. It seems to work find, however I an not too sure if
the
picture(s) are a little more 'fuzzy', perhaps due to noise from the
amplifier?
Anyway I have decent enough pictures on both 'sets'.
I did think I would be better off with the booster in the loft closer to
the
original signal, it could power the connection in the kitchen from their
too, and I could use a passive splitter downstairs?, however I have no
powerpoint
in the loft. Obviously there are wires for lighting in the loft, but
will
they
only work when the light is switched on?
I could simply run an extension cable up there, but that wold lok a bit
messy.

This has been covered in depth before so a Google will help you.
Briefly, the nearer to the aerial you amplify the signal the better,
although always keep amplifiers a good metre or so from the aerial.

To power the amplifier in the loft you can take a feed from the lighting
circuit, if you take it from the supply between each light rather than a
switch wire you won't have to worry about it only working when the light
is
on. Open up a convenient ceiling rose upstairs and you will be able to
trace
the feed cables, and tap in there. Sleeve your earth cables!

If the amplifier has a flying power lead, snip off the plug and connect
it
to the lighting circuit via a 3amp fused connection unit with double pole
switching http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...27148&ts=67719

If the amplifier is built into a 13 amp plug (a wall wart) use the
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...27148&ts=67719 with a 3amp
fuse to feed a standard 13 amp socket and plug it in there.

This prevents any future occupiers using your socket to plug in a 3kw fan
heater which would blow the fuse in the consumer unit and leave them in
the
loft in darkness! (Using a 3 amp fuse in the loft provides some
discrimination which should hopefully fail before the CU fuse does.)

Thanks. The problem with asking such questions is that the respondant
usually assumes you are familiar with the terms and jargon of the trade.
Indeed I have a DIY manual which falls into that trap!!
The tell you lots of things you don't what to know and omit the bits you
do!!
"feed from the lighting circuit, if you take it from the supply between
each light"

I assume a 'feed' is some sort of wire, rather than a ready made meal.

I'm afraid it's a way to determine whether you are likely to be competent to
do the job.

Anyway OK if I open up the ceiling flower I will see lots of wires
I did last time I tried it :O)
So how will that help? You see I am not familliar with household wiring,
If I was I propably wouldn't be asking would I!!

Anyway as far as I can see there only need to be two wires, a live one
(when switched on), and a return wire.
Anyway I will assume there will be a whole bumch of wires there as that
is what you imply.

"Sleeve your earth cables"???? Sleeve? I don't think I have an earth cable
that I am aware of? What can all that mean?

"flying power lead"... hmmm....is that something to with aviation, will I
need
to take flying lessons?


OK I will stop this nonsense, What I am perhaps thinking of doing is
taking
a cheapo short (four-way) extention cable (costs about £1-£2) and taking
off the plug to expose the live earth and neutral wires.
Then I will try to connect them to the existing wires somehow from the
ceiling rose.

Anyway acording to this diagram I wont find the 'always live' wire at the
ceils rose.
So how do I find it?
I guess I need to find the wire from the switch, fortunately I will be
using a bathroom light which has a switch in the ceiling so that should
give
me a good clue. There will be an alway live wire there.
So......... I will be able to get a live and neutral wire at least, not
sure if
there is any earth (only remember seing two wires when I loooked in the
loft.

To find the live wire, a neon screwdriver is useful, if shops are still
allowed to sell such things. (They might be in the locked cabinet with the
other "offensive weapons" like kitchen knives.)

So I can either forget the earth all togeather or run a wire to a bit
too exposed pipe work. I guess I can test if it is earthed
by touching it with the live wire :O)

That way I will have four power points in the loft and still have a
plug on my amp, which incidently is basically a 'plug' ie it
has no cable.

I really don't think you should be messing with the lighting circuits. Buy a
few metres of 5amp three core flex and wire one end to a "cable end" or
"floating" 13 amp socket (the kind with a cable grip - usually rubber). Poke
a small hole in the ceiling at a convenient place and push the wire through
and fit a 13 amp plug with a 3 amp fuse, then just plug it into a socket.

There's no guarantee that the booster will work any better up there. If you
are feeding two aerial inputs a booster which has two outputs might be
better rather than using a passive splitter. I assume your Freecom USB DDTV
stick doesn't have "passthrough" (i.e. an aerial output as well as an
input). It's always better to "daisy chain" appliances together if possible,
like the way you wire a VCR and a TV up to the aerial.

--
Max Demian

In article , Bazzer Smith wrote:
I assume a 'feed' is some sort of wire, rather than a ready made meal.

Anyway OK if I open up the ceiling flower I will see lots of wires
I did last time I tried it :O)
So how will that help? You see I am not familliar with household wiring,
If I was I propably wouldn't be asking would I!!

Anyway as far as I can see there only need to be two wires, a live one
(when switched on), and a return wire.
Anyway I will assume there will be a whole bumch of wires there as that
is what you imply.

"Sleeve your earth cables"???? Sleeve? I don't think I have an earth cable
that I am aware of? What can all that mean?

If this is your level of understanding, it would be better for you to get a
qualified electrician to do the job. Seriously. The result will be legal, and
you'll still be alive to enjoy the use of it.

Rod.

Thanks. The problem with asking such questions is that the respondant
usually assumes you are familiar with the terms and jargon of the trade.
Indeed I have a DIY manual which falls into that trap!!
The tell you lots of things you don't what to know and omit the bits you
do!!
"feed from the lighting circuit, if you take it from the supply between
each light"

I assume a 'feed' is some sort of wire, rather than a ready made meal.

Anyway OK if I open up the ceiling flower I will see lots of wires
I did last time I tried it :O)
So how will that help? You see I am not familliar with household wiring,
If I was I propably wouldn't be asking would I!!

Anyway as far as I can see there only need to be two wires, a live one
(when switched on), and a return wire.
Anyway I will assume there will be a whole bumch of wires there as that
is what you imply.

"Sleeve your earth cables"???? Sleeve? I don't think I have an earth cable
that I am aware of? What can all that mean?

"flying power lead"... hmmm....is that something to with aviation, will I
need
to take flying lessons?



Sorry, my mistake, I had assumed this was a tech newsgroup.
Call an electrician.




OK I will stop this nonsense, What I am perhaps thinking of doing is
taking
a cheapo short (four-way) extention cable (costs about £1-£2) and taking
off the plug to expose the live earth and neutral wires.
Then I will try to connect them to the existing wires somehow from the
ceiling rose.

Anyway acording to this diagram I wont find the 'always live' wire at the
ceils rose.
So how do I find it?
I guess I need to find the wire from the switch, fortunately I will be
using a bathroom light which has a switch in the ceiling so that should
give
me a good clue. There will be an alway live wire there.
So......... I will be able to get a live and neutral wire at least, not
sure if
there is any earth (only remember seing two wires when I loooked in the
loft.

So I can either forget the earth all togeather or run a wire to a bit
too exposed pipe work. I guess I can test if it is earthed
by touching it with the live wire :O)

That way I will have four power points in the loft and still have a
plug on my amp, which incidently is basically a 'plug' ie it
has no cable.




You won't usually find a neutral at a light switch.
If your lighting circuit is not earthed your wiring is old and probably
needs re-wiring. Do not use it to feed any sockets - it won't be safe
without an earth.

What you have suggested is dangerous and does not comply with current (or
past) Regs.

"Roderick Stewart" wrote in message
om...
In article , Bazzer Smith wrote:
I assume a 'feed' is some sort of wire, rather than a ready made meal.

Anyway OK if I open up the ceiling flower I will see lots of wires
I did last time I tried it :O)
So how will that help? You see I am not familliar with household wiring,
If I was I propably wouldn't be asking would I!!

Anyway as far as I can see there only need to be two wires, a live one
(when switched on), and a return wire.
Anyway I will assume there will be a whole bumch of wires there as that
is what you imply.

"Sleeve your earth cables"???? Sleeve? I don't think I have an earth
cable
that I am aware of? What can all that mean?

If this is your level of understanding, it would be better for you to get
a
qualified electrician to do the job. Seriously. The result will be legal,
and
you'll still be alive to enjoy the use of it.

I have a degree in elecronics, more than your average 'qualified
electrician'.


Rod.

"Doctor D" wrote in message
...

Thanks. The problem with asking such questions is that the respondant
usually assumes you are familiar with the terms and jargon of the trade.
Indeed I have a DIY manual which falls into that trap!!
The tell you lots of things you don't what to know and omit the bits you
do!!
"feed from the lighting circuit, if you take it from the supply between
each light"

I assume a 'feed' is some sort of wire, rather than a ready made meal.

Anyway OK if I open up the ceiling flower I will see lots of wires
I did last time I tried it :O)
So how will that help? You see I am not familliar with household wiring,
If I was I propably wouldn't be asking would I!!

Anyway as far as I can see there only need to be two wires, a live one
(when switched on), and a return wire.
Anyway I will assume there will be a whole bumch of wires there as that
is what you imply.

"Sleeve your earth cables"???? Sleeve? I don't think I have an earth
cable
that I am aware of? What can all that mean?

"flying power lead"... hmmm....is that something to with aviation, will I
need
to take flying lessons?



Sorry, my mistake, I had assumed this was a tech newsgroup.
Call an electrician.

It's uk.d-i-y






OK I will stop this nonsense, What I am perhaps thinking of doing is
taking
a cheapo short (four-way) extention cable (costs about £1-£2) and taking
off the plug to expose the live earth and neutral wires.
Then I will try to connect them to the existing wires somehow from the
ceiling rose.

Anyway acording to this diagram I wont find the 'always live' wire at the
ceils rose.
So how do I find it?
I guess I need to find the wire from the switch, fortunately I will be
using a bathroom light which has a switch in the ceiling so that should
give
me a good clue. There will be an alway live wire there.
So......... I will be able to get a live and neutral wire at least, not
sure if
there is any earth (only remember seing two wires when I loooked in the
loft.

So I can either forget the earth all togeather or run a wire to a bit
too exposed pipe work. I guess I can test if it is earthed
by touching it with the live wire :O)

That way I will have four power points in the loft and still have a
plug on my amp, which incidently is basically a 'plug' ie it
has no cable.




You won't usually find a neutral at a light switch.
If your lighting circuit is not earthed your wiring is old and probably
needs re-wiring. Do not use it to feed any sockets - it won't be safe
without an earth.

What you have suggested is dangerous and does not comply with current (or
past) Regs.

So what only I will know about it and I am willing to take the
risk:O)

On 2006-07-23 17:19:37 +0100, "Bazzer Smith" said:


"Roderick Stewart" wrote in message
news:VA.00000
Anyway as far as I can see there only need to be two wires, a live one
(when switched on), and a return wire.
Anyway I will assume there will be a whole bumch of wires there as that
is what you imply.

"Sleeve your earth cables"???? Sleeve? I don't think I have an earth cable
that I am aware of? What can all that mean?

If this is your level of understanding, it would be better for you to get a
qualified electrician to do the job. Seriously. The result will be legal, and
you'll still be alive to enjoy the use of it.

I have a degree in elecronics, more than your average 'qualified electrician'.


Common sense would tell you that that would matter, wouldn't it?

However, you probably pay your taxes and do your bureaucratic dues.

The legislation in part P of the Building Regulations is intended for
those practitioners who can manage to achieve a basic ability with a
bit of day release or evening classes at the Tech, and who would find
their consciences sufficiently challenged that they will be willing to
fill in their tax returns and thus provide Gordon Brown with more money
to waste.

Remember that the purpose is not to address people with ability and
brains, only those willing to toe the line

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2006-07-23 17:19:37 +0100, "Bazzer Smith" said:


"Roderick Stewart" wrote in message
news:VA.00000
Anyway as far as I can see there only need to be two wires, a live one
(when switched on), and a return wire.
Anyway I will assume there will be a whole bumch of wires there as that
is what you imply.

"Sleeve your earth cables"???? Sleeve? I don't think I have an earth
cable
that I am aware of? What can all that mean?

If this is your level of understanding, it would be better for you to
get a
qualified electrician to do the job. Seriously. The result will be
legal, and
you'll still be alive to enjoy the use of it.

I have a degree in elecronics, more than your average 'qualified
electrician'.


Common sense would tell you that that would matter, wouldn't it?

However, you probably pay your taxes and do your bureaucratic dues.

The legislation in part P of the Building Regulations is intended for
those practitioners who can manage to achieve a basic ability with a bit
of day release or evening classes at the Tech, and who would find their
consciences sufficiently challenged that they will be willing to fill in
their tax returns and thus provide Gordon Brown with more money to waste.

Remember that the purpose is not to address people with ability and
brains, only those willing to toe the line

Not sure what all that means.
Can anyone translate it in to laymans speak?

In article , Bazzer Smith wrote:

"Sleeve your earth cables"???? Sleeve? I don't think I have an earth
cable
that I am aware of? What can all that mean?

If this is your level of understanding, it would be better for you to get
a
qualified electrician to do the job. Seriously. The result will be legal,
and
you'll still be alive to enjoy the use of it.

I have a degree in elecronics, more than your average 'qualified
electrician'.

A degree in electronics is of little practical use here if you still have to
ask which wire goes where in a simple bit of household mains installation.
What on earth did they teach you that you can actually use?

It is utterly irrelevant whether you or your electrician has a degree in
anything. (He might very well have one - who knows). He has to have the
appropriate C&G certificate in order to carry out electrical installation work
legally, and the course he will have had to attend to get this will ensure
that he also does it safely. In the situation you describe, he will be better
qualified than you.

Rod.

In article ,
Roderick Stewart wrote:

[Snip]


It is utterly irrelevant whether you or your electrician has a degree in
anything. (He might very well have one - who knows). He has to have the
appropriate C&G certificate in order to carry out electrical installation
work legally,

He will need a certificate (which I don't think is C&G) to carry out
'certain' work legally. Quite a lot can still be done legally without such
a certificate. Indeed, all work (under Part P) can be done without a
certificate, provided the work is tested by someone sutiably qualified.

--
From KT24 - in drought-ridden Surrey

Using a RISC OS5 computer

"Roderick Stewart" wrote in message
om...
In article , Bazzer Smith
wrote:

"Sleeve your earth cables"???? Sleeve? I don't think I have an earth
cable
that I am aware of? What can all that mean?

If this is your level of understanding, it would be better for you to
get
a
qualified electrician to do the job. Seriously. The result will be
legal,
and
you'll still be alive to enjoy the use of it.

I have a degree in elecronics, more than your average 'qualified
electrician'.

A degree in electronics is of little practical use here if you still have
to
ask which wire goes where in a simple bit of household mains installation.
What on earth did they teach you that you can actually use?

Certaintly not household wiring which could be done in a variety of ways.
I can't say I learn't anything of much use really a few bit and bobs
about basic circuits, largely a waste of time, anyway I only got a
third, 90% of it bored the pants off me.



It is utterly irrelevant whether you or your electrician has a degree in
anything. (He might very well have one - who knows). He has to have the
appropriate C&G certificate in order to carry out electrical installation
work
legally, and the course he will have had to attend to get this will ensure
that he also does it safely. In the situation you describe, he will be
better
qualified than you.

Obviously to do his job yes, but once you know how there probably
erally isn't that much to it. Once you have done the job correctly you
are pretty much an 'expert'.



Rod.

On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 17:52:06 UTC, "Bazzer Smith" wrote:

Obviously to do his job yes, but once you know how there probably
erally isn't that much to it. Once you have done the job correctly you
are pretty much an 'expert'.

This is very naive. The calculations involved, before you even start,
would not be beyond you. But you have to know what to calculate, and be
aware (just as one example) of things such as thermal derating. And your
question about earths doesn't inspire great confidence.

Sorry...but I think you really do need to find out how much you don't
know.

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
Avenue Supplies, http://avenuesupplies.co.uk

"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 17:52:06 UTC, "Bazzer Smith" wrote:

Obviously to do his job yes, but once you know how there probably
erally isn't that much to it. Once you have done the job correctly you
are pretty much an 'expert'.

This is very naive. The calculations involved, before you even start,
would not be beyond you. But you have to know what to calculate, and be
aware (just as one example) of things such as thermal derating.

eh?

And your
question about earths doesn't inspire great confidence.

Sorry...but I think you really do need to find out how much you don't
know.

If I don't know it I will find it out or work it out.
If I can't work it out I doubt anyone else can.


--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
Avenue Supplies, http://avenuesupplies.co.uk

"Bazzer Smith" wrote in message
...

"Doctor D" wrote in message
...

Thanks. The problem with asking such questions is that the respondant
usually assumes you are familiar with the terms and jargon of the trade.
Indeed I have a DIY manual which falls into that trap!!
The tell you lots of things you don't what to know and omit the bits you
do!!
"feed from the lighting circuit, if you take it from the supply between
each light"

I assume a 'feed' is some sort of wire, rather than a ready made meal.

Anyway OK if I open up the ceiling flower I will see lots of wires
I did last time I tried it :O)
So how will that help? You see I am not familliar with household wiring,
If I was I propably wouldn't be asking would I!!

Anyway as far as I can see there only need to be two wires, a live one
(when switched on), and a return wire.
Anyway I will assume there will be a whole bumch of wires there as that
is what you imply.

"Sleeve your earth cables"???? Sleeve? I don't think I have an earth
cable
that I am aware of? What can all that mean?

"flying power lead"... hmmm....is that something to with aviation, will
I need
to take flying lessons?



Sorry, my mistake, I had assumed this was a tech newsgroup.
Call an electrician.

It's uk.d-i-y






OK I will stop this nonsense, What I am perhaps thinking of doing is
taking
a cheapo short (four-way) extention cable (costs about £1-£2) and taking
off the plug to expose the live earth and neutral wires.
Then I will try to connect them to the existing wires somehow from the
ceiling rose.

Anyway acording to this diagram I wont find the 'always live' wire at
the ceils rose.
So how do I find it?
I guess I need to find the wire from the switch, fortunately I will be
using a bathroom light which has a switch in the ceiling so that should
give
me a good clue. There will be an alway live wire there.
So......... I will be able to get a live and neutral wire at least, not
sure if
there is any earth (only remember seing two wires when I loooked in the
loft.

So I can either forget the earth all togeather or run a wire to a bit
too exposed pipe work. I guess I can test if it is earthed
by touching it with the live wire :O)

That way I will have four power points in the loft and still have a
plug on my amp, which incidently is basically a 'plug' ie it
has no cable.




You won't usually find a neutral at a light switch.
If your lighting circuit is not earthed your wiring is old and probably
needs re-wiring. Do not use it to feed any sockets - it won't be safe
without an earth.

What you have suggested is dangerous and does not comply with current (or
past) Regs.

So what only I will know about it and I am willing to take the
risk:O)




All of this has just GOT to be a wind up and you, my friend, have GOT to be
taking the ****. If you really are serious then for God's sake leave it all
alone and get someone in who knows what they are doing.
Seriously.................

"Chas Gill" wrote in message
...

"Bazzer Smith" wrote in message
...

"Doctor D" wrote in message
...

Thanks. The problem with asking such questions is that the respondant
usually assumes you are familiar with the terms and jargon of the
trade.
Indeed I have a DIY manual which falls into that trap!!
The tell you lots of things you don't what to know and omit the bits
you
do!!
"feed from the lighting circuit, if you take it from the supply between
each light"

I assume a 'feed' is some sort of wire, rather than a ready made meal.

Anyway OK if I open up the ceiling flower I will see lots of wires
I did last time I tried it :O)
So how will that help? You see I am not familliar with household
wiring,
If I was I propably wouldn't be asking would I!!

Anyway as far as I can see there only need to be two wires, a live one
(when switched on), and a return wire.
Anyway I will assume there will be a whole bumch of wires there as that
is what you imply.

"Sleeve your earth cables"???? Sleeve? I don't think I have an earth
cable
that I am aware of? What can all that mean?

"flying power lead"... hmmm....is that something to with aviation, will
I need
to take flying lessons?



Sorry, my mistake, I had assumed this was a tech newsgroup.
Call an electrician.

It's uk.d-i-y






OK I will stop this nonsense, What I am perhaps thinking of doing is
taking
a cheapo short (four-way) extention cable (costs about £1-£2) and
taking
off the plug to expose the live earth and neutral wires.
Then I will try to connect them to the existing wires somehow from the
ceiling rose.

Anyway acording to this diagram I wont find the 'always live' wire at
the ceils rose.
So how do I find it?
I guess I need to find the wire from the switch, fortunately I will be
using a bathroom light which has a switch in the ceiling so that should
give
me a good clue. There will be an alway live wire there.
So......... I will be able to get a live and neutral wire at least, not
sure if
there is any earth (only remember seing two wires when I loooked in the
loft.

So I can either forget the earth all togeather or run a wire to a bit
too exposed pipe work. I guess I can test if it is earthed
by touching it with the live wire :O)

That way I will have four power points in the loft and still have a
plug on my amp, which incidently is basically a 'plug' ie it
has no cable.




You won't usually find a neutral at a light switch.
If your lighting circuit is not earthed your wiring is old and probably
needs re-wiring. Do not use it to feed any sockets - it won't be safe
without an earth.

What you have suggested is dangerous and does not comply with current
(or past) Regs.

So what only I will know about it and I am willing to take the
risk:O)




All of this has just GOT to be a wind up and you, my friend, have GOT to
be taking the ****. If you really are serious then for God's sake leave
it all alone and get someone in who knows what they are doing.
Seriously.................


You are doing the wind up.

In article , Bazzer Smith
writes

"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 17:52:06 UTC, "Bazzer Smith" wrote:

Obviously to do his job yes, but once you know how there probably
erally isn't that much to it. Once you have done the job correctly you
are pretty much an 'expert'.

This is very naive. The calculations involved, before you even start,
would not be beyond you. But you have to know what to calculate, and be
aware (just as one example) of things such as thermal derating.

eh?

The current rating of a cable depends on how well it can dissipate heat,
now let's see if you can work out why...


--
Ian G8ILZ

"Prometheus" wrote in message
...
In article , Bazzer Smith
writes

"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 17:52:06 UTC, "Bazzer Smith" wrote:

Obviously to do his job yes, but once you know how there probably
erally isn't that much to it. Once you have done the job correctly you
are pretty much an 'expert'.

This is very naive. The calculations involved, before you even start,
would not be beyond you. But you have to know what to calculate, and be
aware (just as one example) of things such as thermal derating.

eh?

The current rating of a cable depends on how well it can dissipate heat,
now let's see if you can work out why...

I don't need to know that all I need to know if the circuts I am using can
handle
the current I will be drawing, as that is neglible the answer is.


If you are concerned about the heat I think are missing the most
obvious danger which is the current being drawn.


--
Ian G8ILZ

"Bazzer Smith" wrote:

"Prometheus" wrote in message
...
In article , Bazzer Smith
writes

"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 17:52:06 UTC, "Bazzer Smith" wrote:

Obviously to do his job yes, but once you know how there probably
erally isn't that much to it. Once you have done the job correctly you
are pretty much an 'expert'.

This is very naive. The calculations involved, before you even start,
would not be beyond you. But you have to know what to calculate, and be
aware (just as one example) of things such as thermal derating.

eh?

The current rating of a cable depends on how well it can dissipate heat,
now let's see if you can work out why...

I don't need to know that all I need to know if the circuts I am using can
handle
the current I will be drawing, as that is neglible the answer is.

If you are concerned about the heat I think are missing the most
obvious danger which is the current being drawn.

I assume this is a wind up but just in case...

You should listen to the good advice you have been given and get the
work done by somebody who knows what they are doing. You're obviously
not up to the job and could end up killing yourself, killing somebody
else or burning the house down.

Incidentally I'm a qualified electrician who also happens to have an
electronics degree as well as the usual C&G qualifications.

Please feel free to dismiss my views, if you wish to continue deluding
yourself.

John
--
John White,
Electrical Contractor

Owain wrote:
Chas Gill wrote:
"Bill Wright" wrote
Obviously there are wires for lighting in the loft, but will they
only work when the light is switched on?
Given this pointer to the level of Mr Smith's electrical expertise, I
really think that subsequent posters who encourage him to make a
connection to a lighting circuit are offering dangerous advice.

Can't help thinking that encouraging him up a ladder might be unwise
enough.

Couldn't agree more - and most eloquently put, if I may be so bold.
What's more, new laws about such things prohibit dabbling, I believe,
except by qualified personnel (competent isn't enough these days, so
even a knowledgeable mate is a dubious solution methinks?).

No.

Part P does not apply to extensions off existing circuits apart from
kitchens and bathrooms. Part P does not require the work to be done by
either a competent or a qualified person.

Owain


why would you want to run presentations in the loft, surly the office is
a better venue?

lol

On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 18:21:27 UTC, "Bazzer Smith" wrote:

This is very naive. The calculations involved, before you even start,
would not be beyond you. But you have to know what to calculate, and be
aware (just as one example) of things such as thermal derating.

eh?

Q.E.D.

Sorry...but I think you really do need to find out how much you don't
know.

If I don't know it I will find it out or work it out.
If I can't work it out I doubt anyone else can.

THe problem is that you don't appear to know that you don't know it.

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
Avenue Supplies, http://avenuesupplies.co.uk