OK this is 99 and 44/100% OT, but you guys know everything.

The place I work has an IT department straight out of a
Dilbert cartoon. For a department of 15, we have been allowed
1 (!) internet computer, located in the far corner of our area.
Major nusiance. We use this alot, and would like to set up
a clandestine sub-network off of our department computer, to
get web access to our desks. We asked repeatedly via offical
channels and where refused, with no explaniation. Never a group
to avoid from such a challange, I turn to you for help.

Our internet connection is a T1, distributed over an internal
network, seperate from the "regular" company network. We originally
tried the obvious, which was to plug a hub into where our web computer
is and distribute from there, but it won't work. I found out that the
system is set up to communicate only with the MAC address of the
specific ethernet card in that computer. It ignores any other network
device that is plugged into it.

Now I understand that it is possible to put 2 network cards in 1
computer. Is that true, and would it be possible to do that and
use the second network card to allow "passthrough" (for lack of
a better term) access to the web? What would it take, SW and HW wise?

As I am sure you have gathered, I am not any sort of networking
expert, but maybe know just enough to be dangerous. Any ideas or
suggestions as to the best way to accomplish this?

All of these computers are P3's (sad, I know...) running Win98 or
98SE.

Thanks for any suggestions!

Check into Internet Connection sharing. It's a built in function
courtesy of MS.
You will need a second NIC to connect to your "local" network.

http://www.winbookcorp.com/_technote/WBTA08000453.htm

I have not done this on Win98 but it is simple on Win2k. I expect it
is similar on Win98.

JW

On 9 Mar 2005 10:54:01 -0800, wrote:

Our internet connection is a T1, distributed over an internal
network, seperate from the "regular" company network. We originally
tried the obvious, which was to plug a hub into where our web computer
is and distribute from there, but it won't work. I found out that the
system is set up to communicate only with the MAC address of the
specific ethernet card in that computer. It ignores any other network
device that is plugged into it.

Many DSL routers, like a Linksys BEFSR41 can fake a MAC address and
act as a hub the way you intended,

But what happens when the IT department discovers your evasion of
their policy?

On 9 Mar 2005 10:54:01 -0800, wrote:
OK this is 99 and 44/100% OT, but you guys know everything.

If we don't, we'll make something up.

The place I work has an IT department straight out of a
Dilbert cartoon. For a department of 15, we have been allowed
1 (!) internet computer, located in the far corner of our area.

Sounds...inconvenient.

Major nusiance. We use this alot, and would like to set up
a clandestine sub-network off of our department computer, to
get web access to our desks. We asked repeatedly via offical
channels and where refused, with no explaniation. Never a group
to avoid from such a challange, I turn to you for help.

I'd suggest getting a reason, even if it's a bad one. Management
tends to frown on (read: fire people for) what I think you're about
to describe...

Our internet connection is a T1, distributed over an internal
network, seperate from the "regular" company network.

I'm having a hard time guessing, then, why they care about
what happens on it.

We originally
tried the obvious, which was to plug a hub into where our web computer
is and distribute from there, but it won't work. I found out that the
system is set up to communicate only with the MAC address of the
specific ethernet card in that computer. It ignores any other network
device that is plugged into it.

You need, fro instance, a Linksys switch, which will allow you to spoof
the MAC address of that hardware.

Now I understand that it is possible to put 2 network cards in 1
computer. Is that true, and would it be possible to do that and
use the second network card to allow "passthrough" (for lack of
a better term) access to the web? What would it take, SW and HW wise?

If I was going to do it (and I still think that the whole "getting fired"
thing is more of an inconvenience than the "getting to tha intarweb"
thing, but that's your call, not mine) I'd use a Linksys, spoof the MAC that
your provider sees now from that one PC. So now, as far as the provider
is concerned, nothing has changed.

Now, on the Linksys, set up a DHCP server so that each of the clients
can fetch an IP address. As long as you're not running webservers or anything
on your systems, you don't have to worry about port forwarding inbound.
Set the clients to get the IP and DNS automatically, and you _should_
have it working.

Again, that having been said, your new networking experience might be
a necessary skill to add to your resume should your employers take this
poorly. Most IT departments that are reasonable will give you either
control _or_ support - if you can get unsupported control, you should be
fine. Some insist on control without giving you support, which seems like
what you've got, in which case this could be touchy.

Dave Hinz

wrote:

OK this is 99 and 44/100% OT, but you guys know everything.

The place I work has an IT department straight out of a
Dilbert cartoon. For a department of 15, we have been allowed
1 (!) internet computer, located in the far corner of our area.
Major nusiance. We use this alot, and would like to set up
a clandestine sub-network off of our department computer, to
get web access to our desks. We asked repeatedly via offical
channels and where refused, with no explaniation. Never a group
to avoid from such a challange, I turn to you for help.

Our internet connection is a T1, distributed over an internal
network, seperate from the "regular" company network. We originally
tried the obvious, which was to plug a hub into where our web computer
is and distribute from there, but it won't work. I found out that the
system is set up to communicate only with the MAC address of the
specific ethernet card in that computer. It ignores any other network
device that is plugged into it.

Now I understand that it is possible to put 2 network cards in 1
computer. Is that true, and would it be possible to do that and
use the second network card to allow "passthrough" (for lack of
a better term) access to the web? What would it take, SW and HW wise?

As I am sure you have gathered, I am not any sort of networking
expert, but maybe know just enough to be dangerous. Any ideas or
suggestions as to the best way to accomplish this?

All of these computers are P3's (sad, I know...) running Win98 or
98SE.

Thanks for any suggestions!



I suspect your IT people are trying to keep viruses off the regular
company network. A good idea, believe me.

On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 21:21:22 GMT, ff wrote:

I suspect your IT people are trying to keep viruses off the regular
company network. A good idea, believe me.

Yabbut, he said it's a separate T1 feed from the local provider, not
the corporate network. I think maybe they're just overworked and
don't want to deal with it.

Still safer to propose it & get permission, though...

I'm the Tech cor. and I can tell you if you where here at the school, you
would be gone, toast, history. Anyone that bypass network safe guard I have
in place do not get a second chance very often.

Jim Geib
Mansfield, Oh
wrote in message
ups.com...
OK this is 99 and 44/100% OT, but you guys know everything.

The place I work has an IT department straight out of a
Dilbert cartoon. For a department of 15, we have been allowed
1 (!) internet computer, located in the far corner of our area.
Major nusiance. We use this alot, and would like to set up
a clandestine sub-network off of our department computer, to
get web access to our desks. We asked repeatedly via offical
channels and where refused, with no explaniation. Never a group
to avoid from such a challange, I turn to you for help.

Our internet connection is a T1, distributed over an internal
network, seperate from the "regular" company network. We originally
tried the obvious, which was to plug a hub into where our web computer
is and distribute from there, but it won't work. I found out that the
system is set up to communicate only with the MAC address of the
specific ethernet card in that computer. It ignores any other network
device that is plugged into it.

Now I understand that it is possible to put 2 network cards in 1
computer. Is that true, and would it be possible to do that and
use the second network card to allow "passthrough" (for lack of
a better term) access to the web? What would it take, SW and HW wise?

As I am sure you have gathered, I am not any sort of networking
expert, but maybe know just enough to be dangerous. Any ideas or
suggestions as to the best way to accomplish this?

All of these computers are P3's (sad, I know...) running Win98 or
98SE.

Thanks for any suggestions!

Yes and as soon as he does anything he essentially connects the corp net to
the real net and blamo... virus city..

98/98SE isn't going to do the gateway, an external router is the only way,
and now they will have to put dual nics in all their machines so they can
hook to both corporate and their 'hack net'..

and when, not if... WHEN, they virus the whole company I'm SURE heads will
roll.

just my 2 cents worth

Dave


"Dave Hinz" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 21:21:22 GMT, ff wrote:

I suspect your IT people are trying to keep viruses off the regular
company network. A good idea, believe me.

Yabbut, he said it's a separate T1 feed from the local provider, not
the corporate network. I think maybe they're just overworked and
don't want to deal with it.

Still safer to propose it & get permission, though...

On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 22:08:41 GMT, Dave August wrote:
Yes and as soon as he does anything he essentially connects the corp net to
the real net and blamo... virus city..

No, he specified that it's a separate feed and a separate network. If
that's not correct, then yes, bad idea for valid reasons.

98/98SE isn't going to do the gateway, an external router is the only way,

Right.

and now they will have to put dual nics in all their machines so they can
hook to both corporate and their 'hack net'..

As soon as they do that, the whole thing falls apart and is very much
fire-able.

and when, not if... WHEN, they virus the whole company I'm SURE heads will
roll.

Yup, if he's tying those clients to two networks, one secure and one
insecure, that'd be a problem. Didn't sound like what he was saying.
But, I think enough of us have thrown huge red flags up at this point
that if he's going to continue, he at least knows he's walking into
a buzzsaw.

Thanks all, for the replies.

As to the risk for doing this sort of thing, it is pretty minimal. The
IT department is, essentially, one guy. He seems to simply not want to
do this sort of thing. When we asked for unsupported control, he said
no. When we asked for support, he said no also. This is not a new
pattern for him. He really is an OK guy, just a bit odd. This was the
guy who was unreachable (no "reach me here" number, cell phone shut
off, etc) on the opposite coast, for 5 days when our company network
went down. The guy he left in charge was not even given keys to the
server room, so we broke the lock off the door for him, only to find
out that all of the stuff was password protected, and he had not shared
the passwords. Shut down an entire section of the company for 4 days.
he still works here, I think we are OK.

Our experience has been that once we set this up, word will get
around, and then the IT guy will just sort of take it over. That is
fine with us, there is nothing illicit going on here. That was how we
got our web computer in the first place. We sort of "borrowed" an
underutilized one from a neighboriing department, after being refused
one of our own. He takes care of it since.

just seems to be a way to get things done sometimes in one of these
not-big-but-not-small-either-companies. It is a silly way for things to
work, but it does keep life there interesting.

Thanks again for all of the replies. I really do appreciate all of
your advice, technical and otherwise.

On 9 Mar 2005 14:44:53 -0800, wrote:
Thanks all, for the replies.

As to the risk for doing this sort of thing, it is pretty minimal. The
IT department is, essentially, one guy. He seems to simply not want to
do this sort of thing. When we asked for unsupported control, he said
no. When we asked for support, he said no also. This is not a new
pattern for him. He really is an OK guy, just a bit odd. This was the
guy who was unreachable (no "reach me here" number, cell phone shut
off, etc) on the opposite coast, for 5 days when our company network
went down. The guy he left in charge was not even given keys to the
server room, so we broke the lock off the door for him, only to find
out that all of the stuff was password protected, and he had not shared
the passwords. Shut down an entire section of the company for 4 days.
he still works here, I think we are OK.

Keep in mind that he can (legally and technically, but not ethically)
read your email.

Our experience has been that once we set this up, word will get
around, and then the IT guy will just sort of take it over. That is
fine with us, there is nothing illicit going on here. That was how we
got our web computer in the first place. We sort of "borrowed" an
underutilized one from a neighboriing department, after being refused
one of our own. He takes care of it since.

You obviously know more about the situation than we do, so good luck.
I don't see any _technical_ reasons it wouldn't work, as long as you
don't tie the outside network to the inside network, bypassing his
firewalls. That's where I'd get very excited if it was my domain.

just seems to be a way to get things done sometimes in one of these
not-big-but-not-small-either-companies. It is a silly way for things to
work, but it does keep life there interesting.

Beats working, y'know?

On 9 Mar 2005 10:54:01 -0800, wrote:

OK this is 99 and 44/100% OT, but you guys know everything.

The place I work has an IT department straight out of a
Dilbert cartoon. For a department of 15, we have been allowed
1 (!) internet computer, located in the far corner of our area.
Major nusiance. We use this alot, and would like to set up
a clandestine sub-network off of our department computer, to
get web access to our desks. We asked repeatedly via offical
channels and where refused, with no explaniation. Never a group
to avoid from such a challange, I turn to you for help.

Management has decided this question. Do you have new employment
waiting?

I may have worded poorly, but there is NO connection between the
internal corperate network and the web. We are not trying to add one. I
agree that would be dangerous and stupid. Everybody here has at least
2 computers in thier office, one on the company network, and one or
more that are not.

Would just like to have more than one web computer in our area, so that
we don't have to stand in line to get outside email. Like I said,
nothing sinister or suicidal. Maybe "clandestine" was a bit too strong
a word. : )

wrote in message
ups.com...
OK this is 99 and 44/100% OT, but you guys know everything.

The place I work has an IT department straight out of a
Dilbert cartoon. For a department of 15, we have been allowed
1 (!) internet computer, located in the far corner of our area.
Major nusiance. We use this alot, and would like to set up
a clandestine sub-network off of our department computer, to
get web access to our desks. We asked repeatedly via offical
channels and where refused, with no explaniation. Never a group
to avoid from such a challange, I turn to you for help.

Our internet connection is a T1, distributed over an internal
network, seperate from the "regular" company network. We originally
tried the obvious, which was to plug a hub into where our web computer
is and distribute from there, but it won't work. I found out that the
system is set up to communicate only with the MAC address of the
specific ethernet card in that computer. It ignores any other network
device that is plugged into it.

Now I understand that it is possible to put 2 network cards in 1
computer. Is that true, and would it be possible to do that and
use the second network card to allow "passthrough" (for lack of
a better term) access to the web? What would it take, SW and HW wise?

As I am sure you have gathered, I am not any sort of networking
expert, but maybe know just enough to be dangerous. Any ideas or
suggestions as to the best way to accomplish this?

All of these computers are P3's (sad, I know...) running Win98 or
98SE.

Thanks for any suggestions!


Firewall issues.....viruses....better off seeing if they will perhaps agree
to add a second terminal onto that particular node if the one is busy too
often...

To do otherwise would be pretty much asking for them to fire you.

--

SVL

On 9 Mar 2005 10:54:01 -0800, wrote:

OK this is 99 and 44/100% OT, but you guys know everything.

The place I work has an IT department straight out of a
Dilbert cartoon. For a department of 15, we have been allowed
1 (!) internet computer, located in the far corner of our area.
Major nusiance. We use this alot, and would like to set up
a clandestine sub-network off of our department computer, to
get web access to our desks. We asked repeatedly via offical
channels and where refused, with no explaniation. Never a group
to avoid from such a challange, I turn to you for help.


You need a NAT router connected to the internet connection and the
LAN. It takes the place of the computer connected to the internet and
assigns local access to all computers on the local area network, as a
gateway.

You'll need to be able to keep that hidden from Catbert or whoever.
Our internet connection is a T1, distributed over an internal
network, seperate from the "regular" company network. We originally
tried the obvious, which was to plug a hub into where our web computer
is and distribute from there, but it won't work. I found out that the
system is set up to communicate only with the MAC address of the
specific ethernet card in that computer. It ignores any other network
device that is plugged into it.

Now I understand that it is possible to put 2 network cards in 1
computer. Is that true, and would it be possible to do that and
use the second network card to allow "passthrough" (for lack of
a better term) access to the web? What would it take, SW and HW wise?

As I am sure you have gathered, I am not any sort of networking
expert, but maybe know just enough to be dangerous. Any ideas or
suggestions as to the best way to accomplish this?

All of these computers are P3's (sad, I know...) running Win98 or
98SE.

Thanks for any suggestions!

Dave Hinz wrote in news:3997rvF5v27g7U1
@individual.net:

On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 21:21:22 GMT, ff wrote:

I suspect your IT people are trying to keep viruses off the regular
company network. A good idea, believe me.

Yabbut, he said it's a separate T1 feed from the local provider, not
the corporate network. I think maybe they're just overworked and
don't want to deal with it.

Still safer to propose it & get permission, though...



Even if it's a separate network, once he links up the office computers to
that one, the company network is wide open also, since any virus that
gets on any of thier 'workstations' can now infect the sequestered LAN.
Bad thing to do.

Maybe one of the reasons is that the $$ guys don't want to spend money on
the filtering, scanning and other software that is really needed on a
company internet feed.

Be aware, that even if it is a separate network, the IT guys can see any
page you have been to, and anything else you have done on the internet,
it's all monitored through the head-in. Our guys get a weekly report on
who has spent the most time online (no ****, personnel gets this report
also). If you were to try and go to some site you 'shouldn't be' i.e. a
porn site, it emails personnel and admin immediately at both work and
home.
In the US, they can legally read any email you send or recieve, and also
any listen to an voicemail or phone conversations you have, if you are
using thier equipment.
Big brother is here and alive and well.



--
Anthony

You can't 'idiot proof' anything....every time you try, they just make
better idiots.

Remove sp to reply via email

One of my computer customers (my hobby business, 20 years, 12 customers)
bypassed the security I put in place to keep employees off the net except on
one isolated machine. Result: over two days down-time on their accounting
package including order entry, shop orders and billing. Cost to the
company: They estimate $18,000 plus lost customers. Think twice!!!

wrote in message
ups.com...
OK this is 99 and 44/100% OT, but you guys know everything.

The place I work has an IT department straight out of a
Dilbert cartoon. For a department of 15, we have been allowed
1 (!) internet computer, located in the far corner of our area.
Major nusiance. We use this alot, and would like to set up
a clandestine sub-network off of our department computer, to
get web access to our desks. We asked repeatedly via offical
channels and where refused, with no explaniation. Never a group
to avoid from such a challange, I turn to you for help.

Our internet connection is a T1, distributed over an internal
network, seperate from the "regular" company network. We originally
tried the obvious, which was to plug a hub into where our web computer
is and distribute from there, but it won't work. I found out that the
system is set up to communicate only with the MAC address of the
specific ethernet card in that computer. It ignores any other network
device that is plugged into it.

Now I understand that it is possible to put 2 network cards in 1
computer. Is that true, and would it be possible to do that and
use the second network card to allow "passthrough" (for lack of
a better term) access to the web? What would it take, SW and HW wise?

As I am sure you have gathered, I am not any sort of networking
expert, but maybe know just enough to be dangerous. Any ideas or
suggestions as to the best way to accomplish this?

All of these computers are P3's (sad, I know...) running Win98 or
98SE.

Thanks for any suggestions!

John Ings wrote:
Many DSL routers, like a Linksys BEFSR41 can fake a MAC address and
act as a hub the way you intended,

I don't think it's so much "faking" it as that's basically the way it
works. I have one of those partly because it was highly recommended for
my needs. Nothing "subversive" just a good working unit. At the moment
I have four computers (only two of which will be here for any great span
of time) hooked to it and all can see my internet connection.

But what happens when the IT department discovers your evasion of
their policy?

You threaten to quit and mean it. IT organizations are less important
to company success than any IT department. Been there, done that.

Ted

Anthony wrote:
Big brother is here and alive and well.

Good reason to run something other than windoze on your computer.

Ted

In article . com,
wrote:

OK this is 99 and 44/100% OT, but you guys know everything.

The place I work has an IT department straight out of a
Dilbert cartoon. For a department of 15, we have been allowed
1 (!) internet computer, located in the far corner of our area.
Major nusiance. We use this alot, and would like to set up
a clandestine sub-network off of our department computer, to
get web access to our desks. We asked repeatedly via offical
channels and where refused, with no explaniation. Never a group
to avoid from such a challange, I turn to you for help.

Our internet connection is a T1, distributed over an internal
network, seperate from the "regular" company network. We originally
tried the obvious, which was to plug a hub into where our web computer
is and distribute from there, but it won't work. I found out that the
system is set up to communicate only with the MAC address of the
specific ethernet card in that computer. It ignores any other network
device that is plugged into it.

Now I understand that it is possible to put 2 network cards in 1
computer. Is that true, and would it be possible to do that and
use the second network card to allow "passthrough" (for lack of
a better term) access to the web? What would it take, SW and HW wise?

As I am sure you have gathered, I am not any sort of networking
expert, but maybe know just enough to be dangerous. Any ideas or
suggestions as to the best way to accomplish this?

All of these computers are P3's (sad, I know...) running Win98 or
98SE.

Thanks for any suggestions!

This is very easy to do. Here's how you do it.

1. Install a second ethernet card, connect it to the ethernet hub or
switch of your clandestine sub-network.

2. Install a software router to route between the two cards. Do a google
search on "software router" for your operating system. All Internet
traffic will pass from your hub or switch to the 2nd ethernet card, then
get routed via software to the first card. All traffic will appear to
originate from the "authorized" card.

Some of the other suggestions routers w/NAT were pointing you in the
right direction, but were not exactly what you needed. The more modern way
to do this is with a router w/NAT, but in that case, your router would
have a different MAC address, which wouldn't work in your situation.

Some of the other suggestions viruses and other dangers were also on
target; so be careful if you succeed.

Incidentally, I did exactly as described above for many years, back when
dedicated routers w/NAT cost a lot of money. I had a server that did very
little beyond routing traffic between a couple ethernet cards. Then I
replaced it with a little Linksys router for around $50.

--
Jedd Haas - Artist
http://www.gallerytungsten.com
http://www.epsno.com

On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 05:18:40 GMT, Ted Edwards wrote:
Anthony wrote:
Big brother is here and alive and well.

Good reason to run something other than windoze on your computer.

If you're on http rather than https, the platform isn't relevant, because
you can just snoop it on the network.

On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 04:39:07 GMT, Tom Gardner wrote:
One of my computer customers (my hobby business, 20 years, 12 customers)
bypassed the security I put in place to keep employees off the net except on
one isolated machine. Result: over two days down-time on their accounting
package including order entry, shop orders and billing. Cost to the
company: They estimate $18,000 plus lost customers. Think twice!!!

He keeps saying it's a separate network with separate machines. This is
no different than what we have right over --- there, our "DSL lab",
with a local provider's DSL dropped in so we can test our sites from
a computer which is networkologically "outside". It's in the same building,
but it's no more on our network than my computers at home are on our
network.

Indeed.

When I work as a consultant, as I often do, my consulting agreements
forbid me from ANY access to the Internet while on a customer's time.
There is a damn good reason for this, and it has nothing to do with
surfing porn!

The point is that you are, as a contractor or consultant, hired for
your own expertise,and not what you can quickly snarf up from the Web.
Contractors, on company time, have no need for Web access.


Harry C.

wrote:

Indeed.

When I work as a consultant, as I often do, my consulting agreements
forbid me from ANY access to the Internet while on a customer's time.
There is a damn good reason for this, and it has nothing to do with
surfing porn!

The point is that you are, as a contractor or consultant, hired for
your own expertise,and not what you can quickly snarf up from the Web.
Contractors, on company time, have no need for Web access.


Harry C.

So you're working on a client's machine, and it needs a security update, or new
virus definition files, or an updated driver, and you don't need Web access?

David

On 10 Mar 2005 15:00:22 -0800, wrote:
Indeed.

When I work as a consultant, as I often do, my consulting agreements
forbid me from ANY access to the Internet while on a customer's time.

Must be inconvenient as hell when you're trying to, you know, fix
something.

There is a damn good reason for this, and it has nothing to do with
surfing porn!

And what would that damn good reason be, exactly?

The point is that you are, as a contractor or consultant, hired for
your own expertise,and not what you can quickly snarf up from the Web.
Contractors, on company time, have no need for Web access.

Unless your job involves, you know, working with computers. Your
statement is vastly over-generalized, and you gave zero context as to
who or what you're replying to.

wrote:

The point is that you are, as a contractor or consultant, hired for
your own expertise,and not what you can quickly snarf up from the Web.
Contractors, on company time, have no need for Web access.

ROFL, what I do is find and implement solutions for hirer's problems.
Sometimes I "find" those solutions on the Internet.
Now, if I have to wait until I get home to do the finding/reasearch,
then that can double the time to solution.

It is a bit like bundying on and off, either you are employed to do the
job or employed to put in the time (which may or may not mean you do the
job).

Each to their own, but you get what you pay for.

On 11 Mar 2005 16:15:26 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

On 10 Mar 2005 15:00:22 -0800, wrote:
Indeed.

When I work as a consultant, as I often do, my consulting agreements
forbid me from ANY access to the Internet while on a customer's time.

Must be inconvenient as hell when you're trying to, you know, fix
something.

There is a damn good reason for this, and it has nothing to do with
surfing porn!

And what would that damn good reason be, exactly?

The point is that you are, as a contractor or consultant, hired for
your own expertise,and not what you can quickly snarf up from the Web.
Contractors, on company time, have no need for Web access.

Unless your job involves, you know, working with computers. Your
statement is vastly over-generalized, and you gave zero context as to
who or what you're replying to.


I also work as a computer "consultant". What a word. Means absolutely
nothing or anything, depending how you look at it. I repair computer
systems.
As such, the internet is one of my handiest tools - If I need an
updated driver - it's on the internet. If there is a worm or trojan on
the system, the tool to remove it is on the internet. If there is an
update required to the microsoft operating system, it's on the
internet.

I'm paid for knowing how to find out what is wrong, and for knowing
where to get the tools to get the job done.In todays information
technology world, NOT using the internet when it is available is
irresponsible and just plain stupid - IMHO
I can fiddle around for 10 hours or get straight to the problem and
fix it in two.

The days when a "computer consultant" can rack up the hours and charge
indiscriminately are GONE. The customer expects, and deserves, to have
the job done as quickly and economically as possible, which requires
that the technician (OK, consultant if you want to hang that handle
around your neck) uses all the tools at his disposal, and uses them
effectively.

I've said enough.

On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 12:17:41 +1100, Terry Collins
wrote:

wrote:

The point is that you are, as a contractor or consultant, hired for
your own expertise,and not what you can quickly snarf up from the Web.
Contractors, on company time, have no need for Web access.

ROFL, what I do is find and implement solutions for hirer's problems.
Sometimes I "find" those solutions on the Internet.
Now, if I have to wait until I get home to do the finding/reasearch,
then that can double the time to solution.

It is a bit like bundying on and off, either you are employed to do the
job or employed to put in the time (which may or may not mean you do the
job).

Each to their own, but you get what you pay for.


It has been my experience in life that you seldom get MORE than you
pay for, but in most cases you are extremely lucky if you even get
anywhere near what you pay for.

In the computer biz, where I have made my living for the last 18-20
years, I have seen more over-qualified, over paid, under "educated",
pompous jackasses ripping off clients with their gross ineptitude than
in any other business I have been associated with. I also spent 25
years in the automotive service industry.

About the only two "professions" I can think of where the "rip-off
Mentality" is more prevalent is with accountants and lawyers.

I didn't get rich as a mechanic, and I'm not getting rich as a
computer tech (or consultant if you want to use that overworked
term), but in both fields I have had a loyal and appreciative
following. They know they WILL get what they paid for.

On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 21:20:22 -0500, wrote:

As such, the internet is one of my handiest tools - If I need an
updated driver - it's on the internet. If there is a worm or trojan on
the system, the tool to remove it is on the internet. If there is an
update required to the microsoft operating system, it's on the
internet.

All of these things you mention fit nicely on a 1 GB USB thumb drive.
I've been doing it that way for a while and am pleased with that
technique. Saves much time, and if there's an update, I had to download
it anyway - so I copy the update to the thumb drive at that time. Saves
a LOT of hassle. A bootable CDROM OS (such as a Knoppix Linux) is handy
for fixing a scrogged virus-infested windows system, if you're comfortable
starting in Linux to fix the Windows stuff.

I'm paid for knowing how to find out what is wrong, and for knowing
where to get the tools to get the job done.In todays information
technology world, NOT using the internet when it is available is
irresponsible and just plain stupid - IMHO

Exactly. Sometimes, though, sneakernet is even better...

The days when a "computer consultant" can rack up the hours and charge
indiscriminately are GONE. The customer expects, and deserves, to have
the job done as quickly and economically as possible, which requires
that the technician (OK, consultant if you want to hang that handle
around your neck) uses all the tools at his disposal, and uses them
effectively.

Right. Or you don't get called back, and rightfully so.

Dave Hinz

On 12 Mar 2005 15:02:47 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 21:20:22 -0500, wrote:

As such, the internet is one of my handiest tools - If I need an
updated driver - it's on the internet. If there is a worm or trojan on
the system, the tool to remove it is on the internet. If there is an
update required to the microsoft operating system, it's on the
internet.

All of these things you mention fit nicely on a 1 GB USB thumb drive.
I've been doing it that way for a while and am pleased with that
technique. Saves much time, and if there's an update, I had to download
it anyway - so I copy the update to the thumb drive at that time. Saves
a LOT of hassle. A bootable CDROM OS (such as a Knoppix Linux) is handy
for fixing a scrogged virus-infested windows system, if you're comfortable
starting in Linux to fix the Windows stuff.

One problem. You don't always know what the problem you are going to
is - so you don't know what updates the system MIGHT need - or what
driver might be corrupted, etc etc etc.
Having the internet as a resource makes life a lot easier.
If I'm 50 miles from my office and do not have the particular
driver/update/dll file or whatever in my briefcase, who pays for the
100 mile round trip???

I'm paid for knowing how to find out what is wrong, and for knowing
where to get the tools to get the job done.In todays information
technology world, NOT using the internet when it is available is
irresponsible and just plain stupid - IMHO

Exactly. Sometimes, though, sneakernet is even better...

The days when a "computer consultant" can rack up the hours and charge
indiscriminately are GONE. The customer expects, and deserves, to have
the job done as quickly and economically as possible, which requires
that the technician (OK, consultant if you want to hang that handle
around your neck) uses all the tools at his disposal, and uses them
effectively.

Right. Or you don't get called back, and rightfully so.

Dave Hinz

On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 23:00:59 -0500, wrote:
On 12 Mar 2005 15:02:47 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

All of these things you mention fit nicely on a 1 GB USB thumb drive.
I've been doing it that way for a while and am pleased with that
technique. Saves much time, and if there's an update, I had to download
it anyway - so I copy the update to the thumb drive at that time. Saves
a LOT of hassle.

One problem. You don't always know what the problem you are going to
is - so you don't know what updates the system MIGHT need - or what
driver might be corrupted, etc etc etc.

Right, but seems they _all_ need AdAware, Spybot, Service Pack 2,
and sometimes an antivirus.

Having the internet as a resource makes life a lot easier.

Of course, I'm just saying that for the things you know you'll
need, carry 'em with you. I'm not the guy who was saying "Tha Intarweb
is evul for consultants" or whatever his point was.

Dave Hinz