I'd like to remove two snaprings from an old Hein Werner model K
floor jack. They're pictured at

http://www.zefox.net/~bp/wheel_snapring.jpg
and
http://www.zefox.net/~bp/pump_snapring.jpg

None of the tools in my collection has any chance of
holding on to these things. Does anybody know of a tool
that will get them off?

It's likely possible to use a Dremel tool to notch them
so they can be either grabbed or broken, but that promises
to be a lot of work and somewhat hard on the adjacent metal.
Better ideas would be much appreciated, I don't like any of mine.

Thanks for looking, and any guidance!

bob prohaska

On Tuesday, September 26, 2017 at 7:15:40 PM UTC-4, bob prohaska wrote:
I'd like to remove two snaprings from an old Hein Werner model K
floor jack. They're pictured at

http://www.zefox.net/~bp/wheel_snapring.jpg
and
http://www.zefox.net/~bp/pump_snapring.jpg

None of the tools in my collection has any chance of
holding on to these things. Does anybody know of a tool
that will get them off?

It's likely possible to use a Dremel tool to notch them
so they can be either grabbed or broken, but that promises
to be a lot of work and somewhat hard on the adjacent metal.
Better ideas would be much appreciated, I don't like any of mine.

Thanks for looking, and any guidance!

bob prohaska

I couldn't load the first picture, but the second one looks like you could use a flat bar - there's nothing there for scale, so maybe even a flat-blade screwdriver would work - against both open ends at once. Push the clip back far enough to slip something (a pick, perhaps) between the pin and the closed side of the clip.

If a flat bar pressing against both ends doesn't move the clip far enough, you could notch the bar to clear the pin while still pushing on the clip.

Good luck.

jpb

"bob prohaska" wrote in message
news
I'd like to remove two snaprings from an old Hein Werner model K
floor jack. They're pictured at

http://www.zefox.net/~bp/wheel_snapring.jpg
and
http://www.zefox.net/~bp/pump_snapring.jpg

None of the tools in my collection has any chance of
holding on to these things. Does anybody know of a tool
that will get them off?

It's likely possible to use a Dremel tool to notch them
so they can be either grabbed or broken, but that promises
to be a lot of work and somewhat hard on the adjacent metal.
Better ideas would be much appreciated, I don't like any of mine.

Thanks for looking, and any guidance!

bob prohaska


It looks to me like you could grind a tool like a flat blade
screwdriver to either fit the space snugly or wedge it in, and twist
it sideways to expand the ring. I have a bundle of 3/16" steel gas/TIG
welding rod that I forge and grind such custom tools out of. I make a
round or tee loop on the handle end. The rod breaks without bending if
notched half way with a cold chisel or hardy.

I recently found that the shield retaining snap ring on a 608 ZZ ball
bearing is beveled =/ /= on the ends and a safety pin point will lift
out the undercut end to clean the bearing or swap in a rubber seal.

-jsw

On Tuesday, September 26, 2017 at 7:49:40 PM UTC-4, rangerssuck wrote:
On Tuesday, September 26, 2017 at 7:15:40 PM UTC-4, bob prohaska wrote:
I'd like to remove two snaprings from an old Hein Werner model K
floor jack. They're pictured at

http://www.zefox.net/~bp/wheel_snapring.jpg
and
http://www.zefox.net/~bp/pump_snapring.jpg

None of the tools in my collection has any chance of
holding on to these things. Does anybody know of a tool
that will get them off?

It's likely possible to use a Dremel tool to notch them
so they can be either grabbed or broken, but that promises
to be a lot of work and somewhat hard on the adjacent metal.
Better ideas would be much appreciated, I don't like any of mine.

Thanks for looking, and any guidance!

bob prohaska

I couldn't load the first picture, but the second one looks like you could use a flat bar - there's nothing there for scale, so maybe even a flat-blade screwdriver would work - against both open ends at once. Push the clip back far enough to slip something (a pick, perhaps) between the pin and the closed side of the clip.

If a flat bar pressing against both ends doesn't move the clip far enough, you could notch the bar to clear the pin while still pushing on the clip.

Good luck.

jpb

OK, the wheel picture finally loaded and it looks like that snap ring won't just push off. So, I agree with Jim - make a wedge or rounded-end tool, push it into the space, and voila! But it also looks like fairly ordinary snap ring pliers could be ground to fit into that space. with something like these https://goo.gl/2ZPHzP you can grind just the tips to suit.

On 2017-09-26, bob prohaska wrote:
I'd like to remove two snaprings from an old Hein Werner model K
floor jack. They're pictured at

http://www.zefox.net/~bp/wheel_snapring.jpg
and
http://www.zefox.net/~bp/pump_snapring.jpg

None of the tools in my collection has any chance of
holding on to these things. Does anybody know of a tool
that will get them off?

It's likely possible to use a Dremel tool to notch them
so they can be either grabbed or broken, but that promises
to be a lot of work and somewhat hard on the adjacent metal.
Better ideas would be much appreciated, I don't like any of mine.

Really big images -- took forever to download.

Three sets of hands. One holding a straight blade screwdriver
against one end of the ring, another holding and driving a second
straight-blade screwdriver against the other end, and a third set of
hands pushing a smaller straight-blade driver between the pin and the
middle arc of the ring as the first two screwdrivers push it a bit
clear. Once the smaller screwdriver is in place, shift one of the other
two to just beside it and use it as a lever to move that middle of the
ring up clear of the groove. Then walk another screwdriver around from
there towards one end of the ring. Once that end is pried clear of the
end of the pin, walk the other screwdriver around until the rest of the
ring is free of the groove.

Be sure to wear safety glasses, because the ring can snap off
and move at high speed.

Putting it back involves just two screwdrivers. One holds one
end down at the groove level, and the other walks around pushing down
the ring as you go, until the circle is completed and it snaps into
place.

Thanks for looking, and any guidance!

bob prohaska

You have above what I would do.

Good luck,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Tue, 26 Sep 2017 16:49:35 -0700 (PDT), rangerssuck
wrote:

On Tuesday, September 26, 2017 at 7:15:40 PM UTC-4, bob prohaska wrote:
I'd like to remove two snaprings from an old Hein Werner model K
floor jack. They're pictured at

http://www.zefox.net/~bp/wheel_snapring.jpg
and
http://www.zefox.net/~bp/pump_snapring.jpg

None of the tools in my collection has any chance of
holding on to these things. Does anybody know of a tool
that will get them off?

It's likely possible to use a Dremel tool to notch them
so they can be either grabbed or broken, but that promises
to be a lot of work and somewhat hard on the adjacent metal.
Better ideas would be much appreciated, I don't like any of mine.

Thanks for looking, and any guidance!

bob prohaska

I couldn't load the first picture, but the second one looks like you could use a flat bar - there's nothing there for scale, so maybe even a flat-blade screwdriver would work - against both open ends at once. Push the clip back far enough to slip something (a pick, perhaps) between the pin and the closed side of the clip.

If a flat bar pressing against both ends doesn't move the clip far enough, you could notch the bar to clear the pin while still pushing on the clip.

Good luck.

jpb

It looks like it could be driven far enough off of the shaft with a
big screwdriver or piece of flat stock.

The first photo, if I'm interpreting it right, looks like an internal
ring like the ones that you'll see holding in half-shafts in a
front-drive car transaxle. Thos typically mate with a ring grooove in
the half-axle that is chamfered on both dies. The shafts are meant to
be driven out with a dead-blow hammer (something I did, twice, in my
1987 Mazda), and they're not meant to be removed unless they're
destroyd -- in whcih case you can pick out the pieces with needle-nose
pliers.

--
Ed huntress

"rangerssuck" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, September 26, 2017 at 7:49:40 PM UTC-4, rangerssuck wrote:
On Tuesday, September 26, 2017 at 7:15:40 PM UTC-4, bob prohaska
wrote:
I'd like to remove two snaprings from an old Hein Werner model K
floor jack. They're pictured at

http://www.zefox.net/~bp/wheel_snapring.jpg
and
http://www.zefox.net/~bp/pump_snapring.jpg

None of the tools in my collection has any chance of
holding on to these things. Does anybody know of a tool
that will get them off?

It's likely possible to use a Dremel tool to notch them
so they can be either grabbed or broken, but that promises
to be a lot of work and somewhat hard on the adjacent metal.
Better ideas would be much appreciated, I don't like any of mine.

Thanks for looking, and any guidance!

bob prohaska

I couldn't load the first picture, but the second one looks like you
could use a flat bar - there's nothing there for scale, so maybe
even a flat-blade screwdriver would work - against both open ends at
once. Push the clip back far enough to slip something (a pick,
perhaps) between the pin and the closed side of the clip.

If a flat bar pressing against both ends doesn't move the clip far
enough, you could notch the bar to clear the pin while still pushing
on the clip.

Good luck.

jpb

OK, the wheel picture finally loaded and it looks like that snap ring
won't just push off. So, I agree with Jim - make a wedge or
rounded-end tool, push it into the space, and voila! But it also looks
like fairly ordinary snap ring pliers could be ground to fit into that
space. with something like these https://goo.gl/2ZPHzP you can grind
just the tips to suit.

==============

That might work with better pliers than mine. Custom bits that don't
fit the hex grooves pop out too easily.
-jsw

On 27 Sep 2017 00:26:52 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2017-09-26, bob prohaska wrote:
I'd like to remove two snaprings from an old Hein Werner model K
floor jack. They're pictured at

http://www.zefox.net/~bp/wheel_snapring.jpg
and
http://www.zefox.net/~bp/pump_snapring.jpg

None of the tools in my collection has any chance of
holding on to these things. Does anybody know of a tool
that will get them off?

It's likely possible to use a Dremel tool to notch them
so they can be either grabbed or broken, but that promises
to be a lot of work and somewhat hard on the adjacent metal.
Better ideas would be much appreciated, I don't like any of mine.

Really big images -- took forever to download.

Three sets of hands. One holding a straight blade screwdriver
against one end of the ring, another holding and driving a second
straight-blade screwdriver against the other end, and a third set of
hands pushing a smaller straight-blade driver between the pin and the
middle arc of the ring as the first two screwdrivers push it a bit
clear. Once the smaller screwdriver is in place, shift one of the other
two to just beside it and use it as a lever to move that middle of the
ring up clear of the groove. Then walk another screwdriver around from
there towards one end of the ring. Once that end is pried clear of the
end of the pin, walk the other screwdriver around until the rest of the
ring is free of the groove.

Pretty much - looks like a hole in one end of the ring? There IS a
tool for "Hermaphrodite" snap rings - pin goes in the hole, then
forcing against the blunt end, the ring is expanded and can be lifted
off. Problem would be finding one.

Be sure to wear safety glasses, because the ring can snap off
and move at high speed.

Putting it back involves just two screwdrivers. One holds one
end down at the groove level, and the other walks around pushing down
the ring as you go, until the circle is completed and it snaps into
place.


Putting it back together goes a lot easier woth a new standard
snap-ring that you will not have to fight with next time

Thanks for looking, and any guidance!

bob prohaska

You have above what I would do.

Good luck,
DoN.

DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2017-09-26, bob prohaska wrote:
I'd like to remove two snaprings from an old Hein Werner model K
floor jack. They're pictured at

http://www.zefox.net/~bp/wheel_snapring.jpg
and
http://www.zefox.net/~bp/pump_snapring.jpg

None of the tools in my collection has any chance of
holding on to these things. Does anybody know of a tool
that will get them off?

It's likely possible to use a Dremel tool to notch them
so they can be either grabbed or broken, but that promises
to be a lot of work and somewhat hard on the adjacent metal.
Better ideas would be much appreciated, I don't like any of mine.

Really big images -- took forever to download.

Three sets of hands. One holding a straight blade screwdriver
against one end of the ring, another holding and driving a second
straight-blade screwdriver against the other end, and a third set of
hands pushing a smaller straight-blade driver between the pin and the
middle arc of the ring as the first two screwdrivers push it a bit
clear. Once the smaller screwdriver is in place, shift one of the other
two to just beside it and use it as a lever to move that middle of the
ring up clear of the groove. Then walk another screwdriver around from
there towards one end of the ring. Once that end is pried clear of the
end of the pin, walk the other screwdriver around until the rest of the
ring is free of the groove.

Be sure to wear safety glasses, because the ring can snap off
and move at high speed.

Putting it back involves just two screwdrivers. One holds one
end down at the groove level, and the other walks around pushing down
the ring as you go, until the circle is completed and it snaps into
place.

Thanks for looking, and any guidance!

bob prohaska

You have above what I would do.

Good luck,
DoN.

First of all, apologies for the lack of scale; the wheel axle is
about 3/4", the pump link pin about 1/2". I should have put a dime
in the photos.

I tried a simple expanding snap ring tool on the wheel and the
taper of the ring end slipped off the tool with the force I could
muster holding it in. Maybe a tool ground thin enough to go into
the ring groove would find a ledge to catch on....

The biggest issue seems to be keeping the tool(s) from slipping
off the ends of the ring. That looks difficult in the case of
the pump.

Thanks for everyone's counsel, I'll re-read in the morning and have
another go at it. If nothing else works a thin cutoff wheel in a
Dremel tool will part the rings with minimal damage to the rods.

bob prohaska

"bob prohaska" wrote in message
news
DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2017-09-26, bob prohaska wrote:
I'd like to remove two snaprings from an old Hein Werner model K
floor jack. They're pictured at

http://www.zefox.net/~bp/wheel_snapring.jpg
and
http://www.zefox.net/~bp/pump_snapring.jpg

None of the tools in my collection has any chance of
holding on to these things. Does anybody know of a tool
that will get them off?

It's likely possible to use a Dremel tool to notch them
so they can be either grabbed or broken, but that promises
to be a lot of work and somewhat hard on the adjacent metal.
Better ideas would be much appreciated, I don't like any of mine.

Really big images -- took forever to download.

Three sets of hands. One holding a straight blade
screwdriver
against one end of the ring, another holding and driving a second
straight-blade screwdriver against the other end, and a third set
of
hands pushing a smaller straight-blade driver between the pin and
the
middle arc of the ring as the first two screwdrivers push it a bit
clear. Once the smaller screwdriver is in place, shift one of the
other
two to just beside it and use it as a lever to move that middle of
the
ring up clear of the groove. Then walk another screwdriver around
from
there towards one end of the ring. Once that end is pried clear of
the
end of the pin, walk the other screwdriver around until the rest of
the
ring is free of the groove.

Be sure to wear safety glasses, because the ring can snap
off
and move at high speed.

Putting it back involves just two screwdrivers. One holds
one
end down at the groove level, and the other walks around pushing
down
the ring as you go, until the circle is completed and it snaps into
place.

Thanks for looking, and any guidance!

bob prohaska

You have above what I would do.

Good luck,
DoN.

First of all, apologies for the lack of scale; the wheel axle is
about 3/4", the pump link pin about 1/2". I should have put a dime
in the photos.

I tried a simple expanding snap ring tool on the wheel and the
taper of the ring end slipped off the tool with the force I could
muster holding it in. Maybe a tool ground thin enough to go into
the ring groove would find a ledge to catch on....

The biggest issue seems to be keeping the tool(s) from slipping
off the ends of the ring. That looks difficult in the case of
the pump.

Thanks for everyone's counsel, I'll re-read in the morning and have
another go at it. If nothing else works a thin cutoff wheel in a
Dremel tool will part the rings with minimal damage to the rods.

bob prohaska

You could try clamping half the ring in place with Vise-Grips and
bashing the exposed end with a punch to bend or break it.

This is a candidate to modify with thin prying jaws.
https://www.arc-zone.com/expand-o-pl...iABEgKna_D_BwE

I have a small collection of similar automotive valve spring, brake
and panel clip expansion pliers but none of them would fit a small
spring clip. My plan is to modify a tool with a screw adjuster for the
task to leave both hands free.

-jsw

On Wed, 27 Sep 2017 02:07:50 -0000 (UTC)
bob prohaska wrote:

I tried a simple expanding snap ring tool on the wheel and the
taper of the ring end slipped off the tool with the force I could
muster holding it in. Maybe a tool ground thin enough to go into
the ring groove would find a ledge to catch on....

This is one of the tools used for rings like that:

https://www.amazon.com/Lisle-44900-L...dp/B0009OR974/

I have one so would give it a try buy it looks like one side of the
Wheel ring is too buggered up for it to hold now. The gap on the Pump
ring is much too wide for it. Nice tool to have around for such stuff
though...

I would try Jim's method. Vise grip to keep one side from moving
while pushing, hammering with an old screwdriver or punch on the other.
I've done that before, it works. And Don's method works too but like he
mentioned, you almost need three hands to do it

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

On Tue, 26 Sep 2017 23:15:36 -0000 (UTC), bob prohaska
wrote:

I'd like to remove two snaprings from an old Hein Werner model K
floor jack. They're pictured at

http://www.zefox.net/~bp/wheel_snapring.jpg
and
http://www.zefox.net/~bp/pump_snapring.jpg

None of the tools in my collection has any chance of
holding on to these things. Does anybody know of a tool
that will get them off?

It's likely possible to use a Dremel tool to notch them
so they can be either grabbed or broken, but that promises
to be a lot of work and somewhat hard on the adjacent metal.
Better ideas would be much appreciated, I don't like any of mine.

Thanks for looking, and any guidance!

bob prohaska

Bob..the "easy" way..is to drill a pair of holes in the ring and use
regular snap ring pliers.

Id suggest using carbide bits and a drill press.

If you have a pair of Heavy snap ring pliers...you might be able to
open the ring up and with your third hand..get a screw driver in
behind them and pry them open and out.

Those rings were never intended to be "user friendly"...which speaks
much about the confidence of the maker in their own product line.


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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On Wed, 27 Sep 2017 08:39:33 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Wed, 27 Sep 2017 02:07:50 -0000 (UTC)
bob prohaska wrote:

I tried a simple expanding snap ring tool on the wheel and the
taper of the ring end slipped off the tool with the force I could
muster holding it in. Maybe a tool ground thin enough to go into
the ring groove would find a ledge to catch on....

This is one of the tools used for rings like that:

https://www.amazon.com/Lisle-44900-L...dp/B0009OR974/

Crom! Ive not seen a set of those in years!! Thanks!

I have one so would give it a try buy it looks like one side of the
Wheel ring is too buggered up for it to hold now. The gap on the Pump
ring is much too wide for it. Nice tool to have around for such stuff
though...

I would try Jim's method. Vise grip to keep one side from moving
while pushing, hammering with an old screwdriver or punch on the other.
I've done that before, it works. And Don's method works too but like he
mentioned, you almost need three hands to do it

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On Tue, 26 Sep 2017 23:15:36 -0000 (UTC), bob prohaska
wrote:

I'd like to remove two snaprings from an old Hein Werner model K
floor jack. They're pictured at

http://www.zefox.net/~bp/wheel_snapring.jpg
and
http://www.zefox.net/~bp/pump_snapring.jpg

None of the tools in my collection has any chance of
holding on to these things. Does anybody know of a tool
that will get them off?

It's likely possible to use a Dremel tool to notch them
so they can be either grabbed or broken, but that promises
to be a lot of work and somewhat hard on the adjacent metal.
Better ideas would be much appreciated, I don't like any of mine.

Thanks for looking, and any guidance!

bob prohaska


There is..is the alternate method...got a GOOD pair of needlenosed
pliers? Wedge em in the gap..pull the handles apart with each hand
and have the wife wedge a screwdriver under the ring.

Much hilarity and blue language will result..but it will work..though
it may take a while.


Been there, done that...have the scars and a wife who gets ****ed
whenever I ask her to help me in the shop.



---
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https://www.avast.com/antivirus

"Leon Fisk" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 27 Sep 2017 02:07:50 -0000 (UTC)
bob prohaska wrote:

I tried a simple expanding snap ring tool on the wheel and the
taper of the ring end slipped off the tool with the force I could
muster holding it in. Maybe a tool ground thin enough to go into
the ring groove would find a ledge to catch on....

This is one of the tools used for rings like that:

https://www.amazon.com/Lisle-44900-L...dp/B0009OR974/

I have one so would give it a try buy it looks like one side of the
Wheel ring is too buggered up for it to hold now. The gap on the
Pump
ring is much too wide for it. Nice tool to have around for such
stuff
though...

I would try Jim's method. Vise grip to keep one side from moving
while pushing, hammering with an old screwdriver or punch on the
other.
I've done that before, it works. And Don's method works too but like
he
mentioned, you almost need three hands to do it

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email


You reminded me that I have one of those, hiding among the spark plug
boot pullers. It's a Cal-Van no. 268.
-jsw

On Tue, 26 Sep 2017 23:15:36 -0000 (UTC), bob prohaska
wrote:

I'd like to remove two snaprings from an old Hein Werner model K
floor jack.

To me, they look too thick to be snap rings. I'd say they are mild
steel that is simply bent into place. Tap them with punch and see if
it leaves a mark.

If that is the case, you might be able to bend them apart with two
pairs of pliers.
--
RoRo

On Wed, 27 Sep 2017 20:23:33 +0200, Robert Roland
wrote:

On Tue, 26 Sep 2017 23:15:36 -0000 (UTC), bob prohaska
wrote:

I'd like to remove two snaprings from an old Hein Werner model K
floor jack.

To me, they look too thick to be snap rings. I'd say they are mild
steel that is simply bent into place. Tap them with punch and see if
it leaves a mark.

If that is the case, you might be able to bend them apart with two
pairs of pliers.


That could be true. Ive seen em before in similar applications. Good
call! Test em to see if they are mild steel.


---
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Leon Fisk wrote:

This is one of the tools used for rings like that:

https://www.amazon.com/Lisle-44900-L...dp/B0009OR974/


Mine is essentially the same, but made by KD tools

I have one so would give it a try buy it looks like one side of the
Wheel ring is too buggered up for it to hold now.

Holding the retaining ring tool in the gap with a pair of
water pump (channelok) pliers hooked over the opposite
side of the axle gave enough purchase to spread the snap
ring out of the groove. Once thus sprung, it pried out
with a screwdriver and I put a bevel on the ends of the
ring to forestall ever needing to remove it again...

The gap on the Pump
ring is much too wide for it. Nice tool to have around for such stuff
though...


Those rings turned out to be soft; they pressed off the pin using
a pair of pliers on each leg. I didn't expect that, at all.

The hydraulic unit is now out of the jack and draining. The next
obstacle looks like it'll be the packing nuts. They're threaded
sleeves with paired notches in the ends around the pump and
cylinder pistons. It shouldn't be too hard to make a wrench for the
cylinder packing nut from a length of pipe. The pump piston
has an eye which is bigger than the packing nut at the end, which
complicates matters.


Thanks to everyone!

bob prohaska

"Robert Roland" wrote in message ...
On Tue, 26 Sep 2017 23:15:36 -0000 (UTC), bob prohaska
wrote:

I'd like to remove two snaprings from an old Hein Werner model K
floor jack.

To me, they look too thick to be snap rings. I'd say they are mild
steel that is simply bent into place. Tap them with punch and see if
it leaves a mark.

If that is the case, you might be able to bend them apart with two
pairs of pliers.
--
RoRo

OK. I know this one is from far left field, so blast away as needed. If it has any merit run with
it.

Get a stick welder and and touch the ends of the electrodes to the ends of the snap ring so they
stick there. Don't break them off, then use them as the places to attach other tools to in order
to pry the ring apart and off.

Art

"bob prohaska" wrote in message
news
Leon Fisk wrote:

This is one of the tools used for rings like that:

https://www.amazon.com/Lisle-44900-L...dp/B0009OR974/


Mine is essentially the same, but made by KD tools

I have one so would give it a try buy it looks like one side of the
Wheel ring is too buggered up for it to hold now.

Holding the retaining ring tool in the gap with a pair of
water pump (channelok) pliers hooked over the opposite
side of the axle gave enough purchase to spread the snap
ring out of the groove. Once thus sprung, it pried out
with a screwdriver and I put a bevel on the ends of the
ring to forestall ever needing to remove it again...

The gap on the Pump
ring is much too wide for it. Nice tool to have around for such
stuff
though...


Those rings turned out to be soft; they pressed off the pin using
a pair of pliers on each leg. I didn't expect that, at all.

The hydraulic unit is now out of the jack and draining. The next
obstacle looks like it'll be the packing nuts. They're threaded
sleeves with paired notches in the ends around the pump and
cylinder pistons. It shouldn't be too hard to make a wrench for the
cylinder packing nut from a length of pipe. The pump piston
has an eye which is bigger than the packing nut at the end, which
complicates matters.


Thanks to everyone!

bob prohaska

Water pipe and malleable iron fittings are very handy to make custom
tools but also quite soft. Music wire from hobby stores can be ground
to the shape of wrench teeth and pressed into holes in the pipe.

I've had good results with hook and pin spanner wrenches made from the
3/16" steel welding rod I mentioned. It's relatively hard and the
largest size I can bend cold in a bench vise. I hammered the end of a
piece flat to make a sharp-ended pry bar that's survived hard use. A
'U' of it with the ends turned in to fit into opposed drilled holes
makes a good handle for wrenches etc machined from drill rod such as
the screw-together grommet press I made to repair shelter tarps in
place.

-jsw

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
news
"bob prohaska" wrote in message ...
Water pipe and malleable iron fittings are very handy to make custom
tools but also quite soft. .....

I needed a fork fitting to attach a removeable towing handle to a
trailer tongue jack wheel. A pipe tee with slots for steel straps
milled in the opposing ends was perfect for the task. The straps that
attach to the jack's axle ends are bolted together through the tee. I
can screw in a long pipe handle to maneuver the trailer (a modified
shop crane) and remove the pipe after coupling the crane trailer to my
tractor. A short pipe screwed into the tee keeps the fork from
dropping when the jack wheel is raised.

-jsw

On Thu, 28 Sep 2017 05:06:28 -0000 (UTC), bob prohaska
wrote:

Leon Fisk wrote:

This is one of the tools used for rings like that:

https://www.amazon.com/Lisle-44900-L...dp/B0009OR974/


Mine is essentially the same, but made by KD tools

I have some SnapOffs, a Mac, and recently bought a convertible I/O
from HF.


I have one so would give it a try buy it looks like one side of the
Wheel ring is too buggered up for it to hold now.

Holding the retaining ring tool in the gap with a pair of
water pump (channelok) pliers hooked over the opposite
side of the axle gave enough purchase to spread the snap
ring out of the groove. Once thus sprung, it pried out
with a screwdriver and I put a bevel on the ends of the
ring to forestall ever needing to remove it again...

Good idea.

The gap on the Pump
ring is much too wide for it. Nice tool to have around for such stuff
though...

Those rings turned out to be soft; they pressed off the pin using
a pair of pliers on each leg. I didn't expect that, at all.

Yes, they're spring steel which will stress only so far before losing
their springiness, turning from tough to noodle in an instant. When
working with snap rings, spring them only as far as needed to remove
them from their setting. Many people won't reuse snaprings,
considering them one-time-use only.


The hydraulic unit is now out of the jack and draining. The next
obstacle looks like it'll be the packing nuts. They're threaded
sleeves with paired notches in the ends around the pump and
cylinder pistons. It shouldn't be too hard to make a wrench for the
cylinder packing nut from a length of pipe.

Good call using pipe to create the spanner.


The pump piston
has an eye which is bigger than the packing nut at the end, which
complicates matters.

Of course. Threads are sharp and care needs to be taken when
reinstalling the piston o-rings into the bore.


Thanks to everyone!

bob prohaska

Cheers!

--
Stoop and you'll be stepped on;
stand tall and you'll be shot at.
-- Carlos A. Urbizo

On Thu, 28 Sep 2017 05:06:28 -0000 (UTC)
bob prohaska wrote:

snip
The hydraulic unit is now out of the jack and draining. The next
obstacle looks like it'll be the packing nuts. They're threaded
sleeves with paired notches in the ends around the pump and
cylinder pistons. It shouldn't be too hard to make a wrench for the
cylinder packing nut from a length of pipe. The pump piston
has an eye which is bigger than the packing nut at the end, which
complicates matters.

If they aren't really tight (doubtful) bent needle nose pliers can
sometimes be used. Like these:

https://www.amazon.com/TEKTON-34406-...dp/B00YQ7RWCW/

Sometimes if it isn't deeply recessed an adjustable pin spanner will
work. This is just a general search, give you an idea of the different
flavors available:

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_n...ds=pin+spanner

It's good to hear your still making progress

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

Jim Wilkins wrote:

Water pipe and malleable iron fittings are very handy to make custom
tools but also quite soft. Music wire from hobby stores can be ground
to the shape of wrench teeth and pressed into holes in the pipe.

Indeed, I just bought some scraps of iron pipe and am building a
tool now to remove the lift cylinder packing. It's easy, because
the rod is straight and does not overhang the packing nut.

The pump is a different kettle of fish:
http://www.zefox.net/~bp/pumpgland.jpg
(apologies, it's another obese image)
With the pump piston in place, the eye overhangs the
piston packing nut completely. The outer nut can be installed
separately, so a socket-style wrench has a chance, especially
if it's supported by a pilot.

I've had good results with hook and pin spanner wrenches made from the

Does anybody know the correct name for wrenches to fit gland nuts like
those shown in the photo? They're not hook, nor pin. "Claw spanner" is
the best term I could think of, but it isn't fruitful in a web search.

For now the plan is to make a socket-style wrench out of pipe, then split
it with a saw and fit it around the piston as a pilot. A hose clamp to
secure, and pliers to tighten. It's almost worthy of Rube Goldberg.

8-)

bob prohaska

Artemus wrote:

OK. I know this one is from far left field, so blast away as needed. If it has any merit run with
it.

Get a stick welder and and touch the ends of the electrodes to the ends of the snap ring so they
stick there. Don't break them off, then use them as the places to attach other tools to in order
to pry the ring apart and off.

Art


I actually thought semi-seriously along related lines: Use a gouging
carbon to locally anneal the ring, and bend it off. Upon careful
reflection on my (lack of) arc control skill, the idea seemd a sure path
to disaster.....

bob prohaska

"bob prohaska" wrote in message
news
Jim Wilkins wrote:

Water pipe and malleable iron fittings are very handy to make
custom
tools but also quite soft. Music wire from hobby stores can be
ground
to the shape of wrench teeth and pressed into holes in the pipe.

Indeed, I just bought some scraps of iron pipe and am building a
tool now to remove the lift cylinder packing. It's easy, because
the rod is straight and does not overhang the packing nut.

The pump is a different kettle of fish:
http://www.zefox.net/~bp/pumpgland.jpg
(apologies, it's another obese image)
With the pump piston in place, the eye overhangs the
piston packing nut completely. The outer nut can be installed
separately, so a socket-style wrench has a chance, especially
if it's supported by a pilot.

I've had good results with hook and pin spanner wrenches made from
the

Does anybody know the correct name for wrenches to fit gland nuts
like
those shown in the photo? They're not hook, nor pin. "Claw spanner"
is
the best term I could think of, but it isn't fruitful in a web
search.

For now the plan is to make a socket-style wrench out of pipe, then
split
it with a saw and fit it around the piston as a pilot. A hose clamp
to
secure, and pliers to tighten. It's almost worthy of Rube Goldberg.

8-)

bob prohaska

I made wrenches for similar end-notched retaining rings on the
salvaged cylinders for my front end loader from flat steel the
thickness of the slots. Just cut a hole for the ID, cut across the
hole somewhat past the diameter and bend the ends down into lugs that
fit the slots. Bending is easier if you make the lugs long for better
grip and grind them to length afterwards.

-jsw

On Fri, 29 Sep 2017 04:55:28 -0000 (UTC), bob prohaska
wrote:

Jim Wilkins wrote:

Water pipe and malleable iron fittings are very handy to make custom
tools but also quite soft. Music wire from hobby stores can be ground
to the shape of wrench teeth and pressed into holes in the pipe.

Indeed, I just bought some scraps of iron pipe and am building a
tool now to remove the lift cylinder packing. It's easy, because
the rod is straight and does not overhang the packing nut.

The pump is a different kettle of fish:
http://www.zefox.net/~bp/pumpgland.jpg
(apologies, it's another obese image)
With the pump piston in place, the eye overhangs the
piston packing nut completely. The outer nut can be installed
separately, so a socket-style wrench has a chance, especially
if it's supported by a pilot.

I've had good results with hook and pin spanner wrenches made from the

Does anybody know the correct name for wrenches to fit gland nuts like
those shown in the photo? They're not hook, nor pin. "Claw spanner" is
the best term I could think of, but it isn't fruitful in a web search.

This isn't helpful?
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Spanner

Google has changed. Used to be that Brits called wrenches "spanners"
and in SAE-land, we called a bar with two pins a "spanner" or "pin
spanner", while I don't recall what the tube type was called, but it,
too, was a pin spanner of sorts.


For now the plan is to make a socket-style wrench out of pipe, then split
it with a saw and fit it around the piston as a pilot. A hose clamp to
secure, and pliers to tighten.

As opposed to using the correct diameter pipe, eh? Split, it won't
hold radial tension, unless it's only split on one side (the least
amount) and the hose clamp is down right next to the nut. Better yet,
weld a nut or spacer which fits over the center part (what the hell
were we working on, again?) Oh, just looked at the pic. Where's your
BAS? Big Ass Screwdriver? That'll spin right out of there.

Someone else had it right when suggesting black pipe. Find the
diameter, grind away all but two pins on the end, drill a hole through
the back end to fit a phillips screwdriver and you have your tool
forever. Be sure to give the pins a slight taper so they're dovetails
which won't slip out of the depressions in the nut.

Alternatively, grind a piece of 1/8 or 1/4" bar stock to fit the span
since you have a 345-degree uninterrupted field.

=====================================
| |
===========================| |
| |
|=========|


It's almost worthy of Rube Goldberg.

8-)

What's with the "almost" bit? For one-offs, I've been known to
hold two drift punches with a pair of Channel-lock pliers, and spin
dem puppies right off.

--
Stoop and you'll be stepped on;
stand tall and you'll be shot at.
-- Carlos A. Urbizo

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 29 Sep 2017 04:55:28 -0000 (UTC), bob prohaska
wrote:

Jim Wilkins wrote:

Water pipe and malleable iron fittings are very handy to make
custom
tools but also quite soft. Music wire from hobby stores can be
ground
to the shape of wrench teeth and pressed into holes in the pipe.

Indeed, I just bought some scraps of iron pipe and am building a
tool now to remove the lift cylinder packing. It's easy, because
the rod is straight and does not overhang the packing nut.

The pump is a different kettle of fish:
http://www.zefox.net/~bp/pumpgland.jpg
(apologies, it's another obese image)
With the pump piston in place, the eye overhangs the
piston packing nut completely. The outer nut can be installed
separately, so a socket-style wrench has a chance, especially
if it's supported by a pilot.

I've had good results with hook and pin spanner wrenches made from
the

Does anybody know the correct name for wrenches to fit gland nuts
like
those shown in the photo? They're not hook, nor pin. "Claw spanner"
is
the best term I could think of, but it isn't fruitful in a web
search.

This isn't helpful?
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Spanner

Google has changed. Used to be that Brits called wrenches
"spanners"
and in SAE-land, we called a bar with two pins a "spanner" or "pin
spanner", while I don't recall what the tube type was called, but
it,
too, was a pin spanner of sorts.


For now the plan is to make a socket-style wrench out of pipe, then
split
it with a saw and fit it around the piston as a pilot. A hose clamp
to
secure, and pliers to tighten.

As opposed to using the correct diameter pipe, eh? Split, it won't
hold radial tension, unless it's only split on one side (the least
amount) and the hose clamp is down right next to the nut. Better
yet,
weld a nut or spacer which fits over the center part (what the hell
were we working on, again?) Oh, just looked at the pic. Where's
your
BAS? Big Ass Screwdriver? That'll spin right out of there.

Someone else had it right when suggesting black pipe. Find the
diameter, grind away all but two pins on the end, drill a hole
through
the back end to fit a phillips screwdriver and you have your tool
forever. Be sure to give the pins a slight taper so they're
dovetails
which won't slip out of the depressions in the nut.

Alternatively, grind a piece of 1/8 or 1/4" bar stock to fit the
span
since you have a 345-degree uninterrupted field.

=====================================
| |
===========================| |
| |
|=========|


It's almost worthy of Rube Goldberg.

8-)

What's with the "almost" bit? For one-offs, I've been known to
hold two drift punches with a pair of Channel-lock pliers, and spin
dem puppies right off.

The Harbor Freight pin spanner is cheap enough to modify into a custom
tool:
https://www.harborfreight.com/adjust...nch-36554.html
-jsw

On Fri, 29 Sep 2017 12:18:42 -0400
"Jim Wilkins" wrote:

The Harbor Freight pin spanner is cheap enough to modify into a custom
tool:
https://www.harborfreight.com/adjust...nch-36554.html
-jsw

I've got one of those. It isn't very heavy duty. Works nice on 4.5 inch
angle grinders though...

I would try a large chisel, like a brick or stone masons. Turn it with
a large crescent wrench or vise grips. Might get a large washer to work
in that slot too with some grinding. Lots of choices, different ways
to attack that one.

I've thought about modifying a large crescent wrench for spanner jobs.
Drill a hole sideways through each jaw near their tips. Maybe 3/16 inch
to start with. Push some suitable pins in the holes and adjust the
wrench to fit your work. It probably wouldn't hurt the wrench, still
work okay. Haven't had anything quite that hard to remove yet...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

Larry Jaques wrote:
(what the hell were we working on, again?)

Here's a photo of the gland as it will need to be tightened
for final assembly. The piston rod is 5/8" OD.

http://www.zefox.net/~bp/pump_rod_in_gland.jpg
(~3MB image)

The outer gland can be tightened with the
piston removed, but the inner gland will require that the piston
be inserted before the gland is tightened. The piston can be
backed up a couple inches, but must stay in the hole.

I _think_ a split tubular spanner clamped tightly to the
piston rod will be strong enough to tighten the gland. If not,
there's a hydralics shop nearby where I can inquire. It would
be very helpful to know the right name for the wrench.

The Urban Dictionary link surprised me a little; didn't see
any reference to wrenches.....times change.

bob prohaska

On Fri, 29 Sep 2017 21:42:44 -0000 (UTC), bob prohaska
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
(what the hell were we working on, again?)

Here's a photo of the gland as it will need to be tightened
for final assembly. The piston rod is 5/8" OD.

http://www.zefox.net/~bp/pump_rod_in_gland.jpg
(~3MB image)

The outer gland can be tightened with the
piston removed, but the inner gland will require that the piston
be inserted before the gland is tightened. The piston can be
backed up a couple inches, but must stay in the hole.

I _think_ a split tubular spanner clamped tightly to the
piston rod will be strong enough to tighten the gland. If not,
there's a hydralics shop nearby where I can inquire. It would
be very helpful to know the right name for the wrench.

The Urban Dictionary link surprised me a little; didn't see
any reference to wrenches.....times change.

bob prohaska

Try "face spanner."

The snap rings you pictured are often called Eaton rings, though most
I've encountered are hard.

--
Ned Simmons

On Fri, 29 Sep 2017 12:18:42 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

The Harbor Freight pin spanner is cheap enough to modify into a custom
tool:
https://www.harborfreight.com/adjust...nch-36554.html

Wow, are those new? I've never seen that either in stores or
advertised in their catalogs before, and I've been shopping HF since
the mid '70s.

--
Stoop and you'll be stepped on;
stand tall and you'll be shot at.
-- Carlos A. Urbizo

On Fri, 29 Sep 2017 21:42:44 -0000 (UTC), bob prohaska
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
(what the hell were we working on, again?)

Here's a photo of the gland as it will need to be tightened
for final assembly. The piston rod is 5/8" OD.

http://www.zefox.net/~bp/pump_rod_in_gland.jpg
(~3MB image)

The outer gland can be tightened with the
piston removed, but the inner gland will require that the piston
be inserted before the gland is tightened. The piston can be
backed up a couple inches, but must stay in the hole.

I _think_ a split tubular spanner clamped tightly to the
piston rod will be strong enough to tighten the gland. If not,
there's a hydralics shop nearby where I can inquire. It would
be very helpful to know the right name for the wrench.

The Urban Dictionary link surprised me a little; didn't see
any reference to wrenches.....times change.

'Twas a joke, Bob, and it came up in my google search.

Youtube went ape**** on me tonight, blasting ads everywhere (next to
the video and directly inside the vids) and I tracked it to a missing
Ad Block Plus filter subscription. Firefox told me of its update
yesterday, so I updated it and it ate the scrip! Heads up, folks.

--
Stoop and you'll be stepped on;
stand tall and you'll be shot at.
-- Carlos A. Urbizo

Ned Simmons wrote:

Try "face spanner."

The photos all seem to come up with round pins; did I miss something?

The gland nuts I'm dealing with have rectangular notches. Pins might
work, but they seem precarious.

The snap rings you pictured are often called Eaton rings, though most
I've encountered are hard.

Thanks, that's a term I've not encountered before.

bob prohaska

On Sat, 30 Sep 2017 03:29:34 -0000 (UTC), bob prohaska
wrote:

Ned Simmons wrote:

Try "face spanner."

The photos all seem to come up with round pins; did I miss something?

The gland nuts I'm dealing with have rectangular notches. Pins might
work, but they seem precarious.

A couple with square or rectangular pins:
https://www.amazon.com/Stanley-Proto.../dp/B001VXTV82
http://tinyurl.com/yd92oru6

I've made tools similar to the second example to reach bearing
locknuts in a recess where a hook spanner won't work.

Face spanners of a different sort:
http://l7.alamy.com/zooms/4baf2b5d64...ner-aktmyy.jpg
https://cdn4.i-scmp.com/sites/defaul...?itok=tu144kGF


The snap rings you pictured are often called Eaton rings, though most
I've encountered are hard.

Thanks, that's a term I've not encountered before.

bob prohaska

--
Ned Simmons

"Ned Simmons" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 30 Sep 2017 03:29:34 -0000 (UTC), bob prohaska
wrote:

Ned Simmons wrote:

Try "face spanner."

The photos all seem to come up with round pins; did I miss
something?

The gland nuts I'm dealing with have rectangular notches. Pins
might
work, but they seem precarious.

A couple with square or rectangular pins:
https://www.amazon.com/Stanley-Proto.../dp/B001VXTV82
http://tinyurl.com/yd92oru6

I've made tools similar to the second example to reach bearing
locknuts in a recess where a hook spanner won't work.

Face spanners of a different sort:
http://l7.alamy.com/zooms/4baf2b5d64...ner-aktmyy.jpg
https://cdn4.i-scmp.com/sites/defaul...?itok=tu144kGF


The snap rings you pictured are often called Eaton rings, though
most
I've encountered are hard.

Thanks, that's a term I've not encountered before.

bob prohaska

--
Ned Simmons

Do you know the name for the 'w' shaped soft iron (?) flat rings? I
found round wire ones by searching for hog rings.
-jsw

"bob prohaska" wrote in message
news
Ned Simmons wrote:

Try "face spanner."

The photos all seem to come up with round pins; did I miss
something?

The gland nuts I'm dealing with have rectangular notches. Pins
might
work, but they seem precarious.

The snap rings you pictured are often called Eaton rings, though
most
I've encountered are hard.

Thanks, that's a term I've not encountered before.

bob prohaska

Thre are or were several good used tool and machinery stores around
here but I've never seen the type of spanner wrench you need in them.
I always had to make the tools I needed to disassemble second-hand
hydraulic components (and military radios).

The special tools for working on vehicles are a similar situation. I
bought the cased set of engine tools for my truck at the auction of a
closed dealership and have welded and machined others as needed, like
flywheel holders for tightening the crankshaft nut. The factory shop
manual shows how to make some of them. Apparently demand exceeds
availability.

Fortunately Maytag tub nut spanners aren't expensive:
https://www.amazon.com/Maytag-Whirlp...Spanner+Wrench
-jsw

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
news
"bob prohaska" wrote in message
news
Ned Simmons wrote:

Try "face spanner."



http://www.rocklinhydraulics.com/adj...paner-set.html
Do you see why I make my own?

-jsw

On Sat, 30 Sep 2017 07:27:21 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ned Simmons" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 30 Sep 2017 03:29:34 -0000 (UTC), bob prohaska
wrote:

Ned Simmons wrote:

Try "face spanner."

The photos all seem to come up with round pins; did I miss
something?

The gland nuts I'm dealing with have rectangular notches. Pins
might
work, but they seem precarious.

A couple with square or rectangular pins:
https://www.amazon.com/Stanley-Proto.../dp/B001VXTV82
http://tinyurl.com/yd92oru6

I've made tools similar to the second example to reach bearing
locknuts in a recess where a hook spanner won't work.

Face spanners of a different sort:
http://l7.alamy.com/zooms/4baf2b5d64...ner-aktmyy.jpg
https://cdn4.i-scmp.com/sites/defaul...?itok=tu144kGF


The snap rings you pictured are often called Eaton rings, though
most
I've encountered are hard.

Thanks, that's a term I've not encountered before.

bob prohaska

--
Ned Simmons

Do you know the name for the 'w' shaped soft iron (?) flat rings? I
found round wire ones by searching for hog rings.
-jsw


Like this?
http://sg.misumi-ec.com/vona2/detail/221000104156/

Turn them 90 degrees and they're E-rings.


--
Ned Simmons

"Ned Simmons" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 30 Sep 2017 07:27:21 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ned Simmons" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 30 Sep 2017 03:29:34 -0000 (UTC), bob prohaska
wrote:

Ned Simmons wrote:

Try "face spanner."

The photos all seem to come up with round pins; did I miss
something?

The gland nuts I'm dealing with have rectangular notches. Pins
might
work, but they seem precarious.

A couple with square or rectangular pins:
https://www.amazon.com/Stanley-Proto.../dp/B001VXTV82
http://tinyurl.com/yd92oru6

I've made tools similar to the second example to reach bearing
locknuts in a recess where a hook spanner won't work.

Face spanners of a different sort:
http://l7.alamy.com/zooms/4baf2b5d64...ner-aktmyy.jpg
https://cdn4.i-scmp.com/sites/defaul...?itok=tu144kGF


The snap rings you pictured are often called Eaton rings, though
most
I've encountered are hard.

Thanks, that's a term I've not encountered before.

bob prohaska

--
Ned Simmons

Do you know the name for the 'w' shaped soft iron (?) flat rings? I
found round wire ones by searching for hog rings.
-jsw


Like this?
http://sg.misumi-ec.com/vona2/detail/221000104156/

Turn them 90 degrees and they're E-rings.


--
Ned Simmons

Like this but flat stock, with semicircular instead of squared ends:
http://www.loadrite.com/wp-content/u...11/p-17760.jpg

I thought they might be punched mild steel retaining clips that crimp
into the shaft groove, as on the OP's jack wheels. The ones I saw were
much thicker than hardened C or E spring clips.

-jsw