Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Default Impossible snap ring, how to remove?

On Sat, 30 Sep 2017 00:05:24 -0400, Ned Simmons
wrote:

On Sat, 30 Sep 2017 03:29:34 -0000 (UTC), bob prohaska
wrote:

Ned Simmons wrote:

Try "face spanner."

The photos all seem to come up with round pins; did I miss something?

The gland nuts I'm dealing with have rectangular notches. Pins might
work, but they seem precarious.


A couple with square or rectangular pins:
https://www.amazon.com/Stanley-Proto.../dp/B001VXTV82
http://tinyurl.com/yd92oru6


Wow, "only" $127?



I've made tools similar to the second example to reach bearing
locknuts in a recess where a hook spanner won't work.

Face spanners of a different sort:
http://l7.alamy.com/zooms/4baf2b5d64...ner-aktmyy.jpg


Asian Crescent Moonie?


https://cdn4.i-scmp.com/sites/defaul...?itok=tu144kGF


Artist has obviously never used a hand tool before.


The snap rings you pictured are often called Eaton rings, though most
I've encountered are hard.

Thanks, that's a term I've not encountered before.


I've always worked with uneaten rings. shrug

--
Stoop and you'll be stepped on;
stand tall and you'll be shot at.
-- Carlos A. Urbizo
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Default Impossible snap ring, how to remove?

On Sat, 30 Sep 2017 09:25:24 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
news
"bob prohaska" wrote in message
news
Ned Simmons wrote:

Try "face spanner."



http://www.rocklinhydraulics.com/adj...paner-set.html
Do you see why I make my own?


Verily. I smile when I see things like that. It reinforces the Maker
in me, and an hour later, the tool is in my hand.

--
Stoop and you'll be stepped on;
stand tall and you'll be shot at.
-- Carlos A. Urbizo
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Default Impossible snap ring, how to remove?

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 30 Sep 2017 09:25:24 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
news
"bob prohaska" wrote in message
news Ned Simmons wrote:

Try "face spanner."



http://www.rocklinhydraulics.com/adj...paner-set.html
Do you see why I make my own?


Verily. I smile when I see things like that. It reinforces the
Maker
in me, and an hour later, the tool is in my hand.


For perspective:
https://www.moneytips.com/what-items-cost-per-pound
"The MSRP on a 2014 Maserati GranTurismo is $126,500 and it weighs
about 3,900 pounds, for a cost per pound of $32.43."

-jsw


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Default Impossible snap ring, how to remove?

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 29 Sep 2017 21:42:44 -0000 (UTC), bob prohaska
wrote:
The Urban Dictionary link surprised me a little; didn't see
any reference to wrenches.....times change.


'Twas a joke, Bob, and it came up in my google search.


Oops, apologies for being so thick...At one time a thing called
"The Urban Dictionary" was a useful guide to language too modern
to be found in traditional dictionaries.

In any case, it looks as if I'm stuck on a problem more basic.

For reasons unclear, the two major fasteners on the jack
are tight beyond my ability to move them (and any obvious reason).
They're items 4 and 34 on the first figure in
http://www.zefox.net/~bp/model_k_breakdown.pdf

I managed to bolt the unit body (item 12) to the hitch mount
on my Scout and put a pipe wench on item 4 with a 4 foot cheater
and all my 140 pounds, plus a hammer. It didn't yield.

Item 34 is more delicate, so I made a spanner out of black iron pipe,
but that bent before the packing box turned. As others have noted, pipe
is soft, so maybe something from a grade 8 nut has a better chance.

I'm planning to visit Valley Hydraulics in Woodland unless the
Jack-X-Change supplies some useful tech support to go with the seal kit.

Thanks for reading,

bob prohaska

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Default Impossible snap ring, how to remove?

On Sun, 1 Oct 2017 02:29:01 -0000 (UTC), bob prohaska
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 29 Sep 2017 21:42:44 -0000 (UTC), bob prohaska
wrote:
The Urban Dictionary link surprised me a little; didn't see
any reference to wrenches.....times change.


'Twas a joke, Bob, and it came up in my google search.


Oops, apologies for being so thick...At one time a thing called
"The Urban Dictionary" was a useful guide to language too modern
to be found in traditional dictionaries.

In any case, it looks as if I'm stuck on a problem more basic.

For reasons unclear, the two major fasteners on the jack
are tight beyond my ability to move them (and any obvious reason).
They're items 4 and 34 on the first figure in
http://www.zefox.net/~bp/model_k_breakdown.pdf

I managed to bolt the unit body (item 12) to the hitch mount
on my Scout and put a pipe wench on item 4 with a 4 foot cheater
and all my 140 pounds, plus a hammer. It didn't yield.

Item 34 is more delicate, so I made a spanner out of black iron pipe,
but that bent before the packing box turned. As others have noted, pipe
is soft, so maybe something from a grade 8 nut has a better chance.

I'm planning to visit Valley Hydraulics in Woodland unless the
Jack-X-Change supplies some useful tech support to go with the seal kit.

Thanks for reading,

bob prohaska

It will likely take some aerious heat


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Default Impossible snap ring, how to remove?

"bob prohaska" wrote in message
news
Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 29 Sep 2017 21:42:44 -0000 (UTC), bob prohaska
wrote:
The Urban Dictionary link surprised me a little; didn't see
any reference to wrenches.....times change.


'Twas a joke, Bob, and it came up in my google search.


Oops, apologies for being so thick...At one time a thing called
"The Urban Dictionary" was a useful guide to language too modern
to be found in traditional dictionaries.

In any case, it looks as if I'm stuck on a problem more basic.

For reasons unclear, the two major fasteners on the jack
are tight beyond my ability to move them (and any obvious reason).
They're items 4 and 34 on the first figure in
http://www.zefox.net/~bp/model_k_breakdown.pdf

I managed to bolt the unit body (item 12) to the hitch mount
on my Scout and put a pipe wench on item 4 with a 4 foot cheater
and all my 140 pounds, plus a hammer. It didn't yield.

Item 34 is more delicate, so I made a spanner out of black iron
pipe,
but that bent before the packing box turned. As others have noted,
pipe
is soft, so maybe something from a grade 8 nut has a better chance.

I'm planning to visit Valley Hydraulics in Woodland unless the
Jack-X-Change supplies some useful tech support to go with the seal
kit.

Thanks for reading,

bob prohaska


Suggesting solutions would be easier if we knew what machine tools you
have available.

-jsw


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Default Impossible snap ring, how to remove?

On 9/30/2017 9:29 PM, bob prohaska wrote:
Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 29 Sep 2017 21:42:44 -0000 (UTC), bob prohaska
wrote:
The Urban Dictionary link surprised me a little; didn't see
any reference to wrenches.....times change.

'Twas a joke, Bob, and it came up in my google search.

Oops, apologies for being so thick...At one time a thing called
"The Urban Dictionary" was a useful guide to language too modern
to be found in traditional dictionaries.

In any case, it looks as if I'm stuck on a problem more basic.

For reasons unclear, the two major fasteners on the jack
are tight beyond my ability to move them (and any obvious reason).
They're items 4 and 34 on the first figure in
http://www.zefox.net/~bp/model_k_breakdown.pdf

I managed to bolt the unit body (item 12) to the hitch mount
on my Scout and put a pipe wench on item 4 with a 4 foot cheater
and all my 140 pounds, plus a hammer. It didn't yield.

Item 34 is more delicate, so I made a spanner out of black iron pipe,
but that bent before the packing box turned. As others have noted, pipe
is soft, so maybe something from a grade 8 nut has a better chance.

I'm planning to visit Valley Hydraulics in Woodland unless the
Jack-X-Change supplies some useful tech support to go with the seal kit.

Thanks for reading,

bob prohaska

Â* Several years ago we were trying to remove the torx head fork tube
clamp bolts on the front of a Sportster - even broke a T45 torx bitÂ* .
Old mechanic tells us to try tightening them just a hair first . And it
worked . Also worked just the other day for me to remove the front
pulley nut on my Harley - though that one needed heat too . So , try
tightening them just a hair first . And if you've got replacements in
the kit for anything that'll melt , well there's always the heat option
.. I like O/A ...

Â* --

Â* Snag

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Default Impossible snap ring, how to remove?

On Sat, 30 Sep 2017 18:00:22 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 30 Sep 2017 09:25:24 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
news "bob prohaska" wrote in message
news Ned Simmons wrote:

Try "face spanner."



http://www.rocklinhydraulics.com/adj...paner-set.html
Do you see why I make my own?


Verily. I smile when I see things like that. It reinforces the
Maker
in me, and an hour later, the tool is in my hand.


For perspective:
https://www.moneytips.com/what-items-cost-per-pound
"The MSRP on a 2014 Maserati GranTurismo is $126,500 and it weighs
about 3,900 pounds, for a cost per pound of $32.43."


Yes, but a Maserati that size would feed you for a lifetime. Well, if
you could find a way to digest and metabolize steel, cast iron,
plastic, paint, leather, cloth, foam, gasoline, oil, brake fluid,
rubber, and aluminum. You'd eat like a king!

--
Stoop and you'll be stepped on;
stand tall and you'll be shot at.
-- Carlos A. Urbizo
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Default Impossible snap ring, how to remove?

On Sun, 1 Oct 2017 02:29:01 -0000 (UTC), bob prohaska
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 29 Sep 2017 21:42:44 -0000 (UTC), bob prohaska
wrote:
The Urban Dictionary link surprised me a little; didn't see
any reference to wrenches.....times change.


'Twas a joke, Bob, and it came up in my google search.


Oops, apologies for being so thick...At one time a thing called
"The Urban Dictionary" was a useful guide to language too modern
to be found in traditional dictionaries.


I find it a hilarious jumble. Good guide to Leftist new-speak for us
Cisgendered, white male gazing, haters out here.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cis
https://everydayfeminism.com/2016/03...male-gaze-woc/
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hater #3, please.


In any case, it looks as if I'm stuck on a problem more basic.

For reasons unclear, the two major fasteners on the jack
are tight beyond my ability to move them (and any obvious reason).
They're items 4 and 34 on the first figure in
http://www.zefox.net/~bp/model_k_breakdown.pdf

I managed to bolt the unit body (item 12) to the hitch mount
on my Scout and put a pipe wench on item 4 with a 4 foot cheater
and all my 140 pounds, plus a hammer. It didn't yield.


I owned and enjoyed flying a 1972 Int'l Scout 2WD (304, 3sp manual)
for a couple years. I had to sell it in '88 when I hurt my back since
I couldn't turn the heavy (manual, not power) steering wheel any more.


Item 34 is more delicate, so I made a spanner out of black iron pipe,
but that bent before the packing box turned. As others have noted, pipe
is soft, so maybe something from a grade 8 nut has a better chance.


Yes, likely so.


I'm planning to visit Valley Hydraulics in Woodland unless the
Jack-X-Change supplies some useful tech support to go with the seal kit.


3 quick thoughts.

First, have you done any percussion loosening of the tube yet, with or
without a Kroil or PB Blaster soak first? if not, take a sledge and
put it up against the side of the tube at the item 4/5 junction. Now
take another hammer and whack the pipe opposite the sledge. Give it a
few, turn it 15 degrees and do it again. Repeat for 180 degrees.
Re-Kroil and try again. If it's still a NOGO, whack it again and let
it sit overnight. If still NOGO the next day try heat.

Second, heat the tube near the 4/5 junction but on the tube. In olden
days, we'd take the nasty, atmosphere-eating R12 and freeze the inner
part while heating the outer part, then try unscrewing them.

Third, although it's unlikely, have you tried tightening first? On
rare occasions, a nut will tighten even though it won't loosen, but
after it nudges a bit tighter, will loosen more easily. This also
allows for the rare left-handed assembly, which may unscrew easily
once you figure out what direction the threads are going. I've never
seen a LHT on hydraulics, but I don't work on them every day, either.

Let us know what works. I've never repaired a jack because grumble
the repair kit (2 o-rings, a spring, and a ball, IIRC) always cost at
least $2 more than an entire brand new freakin' jack. /grumble

--
Stoop and you'll be stepped on;
stand tall and you'll be shot at.
-- Carlos A. Urbizo
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Default Impossible snap ring, how to remove?

On Sat, 30 Sep 2017 12:58:11 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:



http://www.rocklinhydraulics.com/adj...paner-set.html
Do you see why I make my own?


I have a number of thise hook spanners..I may have some duplicates if
anyone needs any.


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Default Impossible snap ring, how to remove?

On Fri, 29 Sep 2017 19:55:55 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Fri, 29 Sep 2017 12:18:42 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

The Harbor Freight pin spanner is cheap enough to modify into a custom
tool:
https://www.harborfreight.com/adjust...nch-36554.html


Wow, are those new? I've never seen that either in stores or
advertised in their catalogs before, and I've been shopping HF since
the mid '70s.


Ive had a few of those kicking around from HF for years.

They arent made all that well..but will occasionally work on angle
grinders


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Default Impossible snap ring, how to remove?

On Sun, 01 Oct 2017 11:11:14 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:


Let us know what works. I've never repaired a jack because grumble
the repair kit (2 o-rings, a spring, and a ball, IIRC) always cost at
least $2 more than an entire brand new freakin' jack. /grumble


Then you are buying them at the wrong places. O rings are a quarter
each until you get to 4"..the spring is a buck and the ball is 50
cents at Ace hardware.

Which is why Ive picked up most of my (23) jacks at yard sales for a
couple bucks each. Humm...the (2) Blackhawk 60 ton jacks were $15
each. One worked fine once I filled it with oil..the other needed the
ball replaced..again...50 cents


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Default Impossible snap ring, how to remove?

On Sun, 01 Oct 2017 16:14:39 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sun, 01 Oct 2017 11:11:14 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:


Let us know what works. I've never repaired a jack because grumble
the repair kit (2 o-rings, a spring, and a ball, IIRC) always cost at
least $2 more than an entire brand new freakin' jack. /grumble


Then you are buying them at the wrong places.


That's trying to find them locally. Anything in an industrial supply
place starts at $40 and goes up from there. Or you get the "If you
let us do the work, we won't charge for small parts like that." Now
that there's a HFT store right here in town, that might shift.


O rings are a quarter
each until you get to 4"..the spring is a buck and the ball is 50
cents at Ace hardware.


Cool. I've never thought to look for something like that at Ace.
I knew that you could have hydraulic hoses or an o-ring made at NAPA
Auto Parts, supergluing linear stock ends together.


Which is why Ive picked up most of my (23) jacks at yard sales for a
couple bucks each. Humm...the (2) Blackhawk 60 ton jacks were $15
each. One worked fine once I filled it with oil..the other needed the
ball replaced..again...50 cents


And the balls need replacing because someone either left the cap off
the refill hole or put moist hyd fluid inside it. The ball is at the
bottom of the sump so it picks up all the water and stews in it.

--
Stoop and you'll be stepped on;
stand tall and you'll be shot at.
-- Carlos A. Urbizo
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Default Impossible snap ring, how to remove?

On Sun, 01 Oct 2017 14:36:44 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Fri, 29 Sep 2017 19:55:55 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Fri, 29 Sep 2017 12:18:42 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

The Harbor Freight pin spanner is cheap enough to modify into a custom
tool:
https://www.harborfreight.com/adjust...nch-36554.html


Wow, are those new? I've never seen that either in stores or
advertised in their catalogs before, and I've been shopping HF since
the mid '70s.


Ive had a few of those kicking around from HF for years.

They arent made all that well..but will occasionally work on angle
grinders


g

Since I didn't have a spanner, my first angle grinder was serviced by
a pair of drifts and some channel locks. Since then, I bought (HF
$9.95 on sale, of course) 5/8-11 ended grinders and media which I can
unscrew by hand. I much prefer the latter, though the original still
works with existing media.

--
Stoop and you'll be stepped on;
stand tall and you'll be shot at.
-- Carlos A. Urbizo
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Default Impossible snap ring, how to remove?

On Mon, 02 Oct 2017 06:16:21 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sun, 01 Oct 2017 16:14:39 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sun, 01 Oct 2017 11:11:14 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:


Let us know what works. I've never repaired a jack because grumble
the repair kit (2 o-rings, a spring, and a ball, IIRC) always cost at
least $2 more than an entire brand new freakin' jack. /grumble


Then you are buying them at the wrong places.


That's trying to find them locally. Anything in an industrial supply
place starts at $40 and goes up from there. Or you get the "If you
let us do the work, we won't charge for small parts like that." Now
that there's a HFT store right here in town, that might shift.


Never go to the industrial mega supply houses. Hell...buy an
assortment on Ebay.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/407pc-Univer...-/251874749265

http://www.ebay.com/itm/T23-419pc-Un...-/272074432350

They are cheap enough. This one is borderline on cheap..but handy.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/900PC-O-Ring...-/202017465376




O rings are a quarter
each until you get to 4"..the spring is a buck and the ball is 50
cents at Ace hardware.


Cool. I've never thought to look for something like that at Ace.
I knew that you could have hydraulic hoses or an o-ring made at NAPA
Auto Parts, supergluing linear stock ends together.


I have a number of places to buy o rings ...I often buy odd sizes at
hydraulic shops. As I mentioned a couple years ago..my Clausing 1500
lthe hydraulic vari drive needed to be rebuilt. Clausing wanted $50
for the kit. I bought all the parts at Bakersfield Rubber Co for
$5..and it included (2) complete kits. The $5 was the guy spending the
time matching up the o-rings and seals. Shrug.

I have on hand...about 3000 o-rings of every type, these days. Lots
of them will never be used...though our roommate John found what he
needed in the drawers when he rebuilt the engine on the Dodge Caravan
when he recharged the A/C and one seal was leaking.



Which is why Ive picked up most of my (23) jacks at yard sales for a
couple bucks each. Humm...the (2) Blackhawk 60 ton jacks were $15
each. One worked fine once I filled it with oil..the other needed the
ball replaced..again...50 cents


And the balls need replacing because someone either left the cap off
the refill hole or put moist hyd fluid inside it. The ball is at the
bottom of the sump so it picks up all the water and stews in it.


Ayup. Lots of times..I find jacks filled with motor oil. 2x..I found
jacks filled with USED motor oil. Both came from the same yard
sale..so Im assuming its all the guy had on hand.


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Default Impossible snap ring, how to remove?

Jim Wilkins wrote:

Suggesting solutions would be easier if we knew what machine tools you
have available.


The tool kit is fairly modest: 10" lathe, hand tools, files, drill and
wrenches. Arc welder also, but it's more of a menace in my hands....

One addition to the kit is a leak test fixtu A fitting that allows
me to connect the fluid fill hole to a bicycle pump and pressurize
the reservoir with air. I _should_ have done that test first.

This whole goose chase started when it looked like the two "outer tubes"
in the parts diagram were leaking where they joined the "unit body". The
air presure leak test suggests the leak is _not_ at the tube-to-body
joints, but rather at the safety valve seal, item 14. If that's true,
there's no need to completely dismantle the assembly; the pump and lift
cylinder packings and safety valve port seal can be replaced without
touching the two stuck fasteners. A spanner to tighten the pump packing
with the piston installed is still necesssary, but not too hard to make..

At this stage it's probably wise to repeat the air pressure leak check
a couple of times with soapy water as a tracer. The jack ought to
have a vent somewhere in the system, which I haven't found.

bob prohaska



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Default Impossible snap ring, how to remove?

On Mon, 02 Oct 2017 12:08:00 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 02 Oct 2017 06:16:21 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sun, 01 Oct 2017 16:14:39 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sun, 01 Oct 2017 11:11:14 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:


Let us know what works. I've never repaired a jack because grumble
the repair kit (2 o-rings, a spring, and a ball, IIRC) always cost at
least $2 more than an entire brand new freakin' jack. /grumble

Then you are buying them at the wrong places.


That's trying to find them locally. Anything in an industrial supply
place starts at $40 and goes up from there. Or you get the "If you
let us do the work, we won't charge for small parts like that." Now
that there's a HFT store right here in town, that might shift.


Never go to the industrial mega supply houses. Hell...buy an
assortment on Ebay.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/407pc-Univer...-/251874749265

http://www.ebay.com/itm/T23-419pc-Un...-/272074432350


Better than the HF version I bought, by far.

I have 20+ of those assortments from HF. O-rings, zinc steel screws,
nuts, bolts, washers, body clips with screws, cotter pins, clevis
pins, snap rings I and O, e-rings, roll pins, woodruff keys, stainless
screws, springs, brass screws, allen head cap screws, set screws, auto
fuses, hitch pins, eyebolts, brass inserts, hose clamps, etc. Love
'em. Whenever they go on sale at half price, I'm there to grab one.
It's probably weekly that I grab something from one of them. Very
handy.


O rings are a quarter
each until you get to 4"..the spring is a buck and the ball is 50
cents at Ace hardware.


Cool. I've never thought to look for something like that at Ace.
I knew that you could have hydraulic hoses or an o-ring made at NAPA
Auto Parts, supergluing linear stock ends together.


I have a number of places to buy o rings ...I often buy odd sizes at
hydraulic shops. As I mentioned a couple years ago..my Clausing 1500
lthe hydraulic vari drive needed to be rebuilt. Clausing wanted $50
for the kit. I bought all the parts at Bakersfield Rubber Co for
$5..and it included (2) complete kits. The $5 was the guy spending the
time matching up the o-rings and seals. Shrug.


That's great. I hate small-parts RAPE, and that's what most of this
is. Early on, I found that you could get a 75% discount by buying a
box of 100 instead of individual nuts, washers, and bolts, so I've
been doing that ever since. Now I have a real stock of things I use
most. Much better than going through a 25# jar of whatnot looking for
the right piece of hardware like I used to do.

Sasco Fasteners was 90% cheaper than Ace on some AHCS metrics, but
they've since (4 years) -quintupled- in price. I don't know what
happened, but I don't/won't shop there any more.


I have on hand...about 3000 o-rings of every type, these days. Lots
of them will never be used...though our roommate John found what he
needed in the drawers when he rebuilt the engine on the Dodge Caravan
when he recharged the A/C and one seal was leaking.


Hah! That's a pretty good stock.


Which is why Ive picked up most of my (23) jacks at yard sales for a
couple bucks each. Humm...the (2) Blackhawk 60 ton jacks were $15
each. One worked fine once I filled it with oil..the other needed the
ball replaced..again...50 cents


And the balls need replacing because someone either left the cap off
the refill hole or put moist hyd fluid inside it. The ball is at the
bottom of the sump so it picks up all the water and stews in it.


Ayup. Lots of times..I find jacks filled with motor oil. 2x..I found
jacks filled with USED motor oil. Both came from the same yard
sale..so Im assuming its all the guy had on hand.


Shadetree Lives! sigh

--
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.
-- Sir Winston Churchill
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