When the family makes a road trip I bring along a 12v 4 amp cooler. The ciggie plug melted long ago and I wired up one of those 3/16" cannon shaped connectors used for low voltage home stuff like laptops, external HDs etc. It also gets very hot and is starting to melt. What's a good off-the-shelf solution which doesn't take up much room? The whole ciggie plug thing is the dumbest convention ever, I must say. I can't believe it's still extant.

On Thursday, April 9, 2015 at 3:38:43 AM UTC-5, robobass wrote:
When the family makes a road trip I bring along a 12v 4 amp cooler. The ciggie plug melted long ago and I wired up one of those 3/16" cannon shaped connectors used for low voltage home stuff like laptops, external HDs etc. It also gets very hot and is starting to melt. What's a good off-the-shelf solution which doesn't take up much room? The whole ciggie plug thing is the dumbest convention ever, I must say. I can't believe it's still extant.

I would use appliance cord like an extension cord.
Along with an inline fuse.

robobass wrote:
When the family makes a road trip I bring along a 12v 4 amp cooler.
The ciggie plug melted long ago and I wired up one of those 3/16"
cannon shaped connectors used for low voltage home stuff like
laptops, external HDs etc. It also gets very hot and is starting to
melt. What's a good off-the-shelf solution which doesn't take up much
room? The whole ciggie plug thing is the dumbest convention ever, I
must say. I can't believe it's still extant.

http://www.andersonpower.com/product...onnectors.html

--
Steve W.

"Steve W." wrote in message
...
robobass wrote:
When the family makes a road trip I bring along a 12v 4 amp cooler.
The ciggie plug melted long ago and I wired up one of those 3/16"
cannon shaped connectors used for low voltage home stuff like
laptops, external HDs etc. It also gets very hot and is starting to
melt. What's a good off-the-shelf solution which doesn't take up
much
room? The whole ciggie plug thing is the dumbest convention ever, I
must say. I can't believe it's still extant.

http://www.andersonpower.com/product...onnectors.html

--
Steve W.

Andersens are great electrically but difficult to mount in a panel or
connect by feel in the dark, and not sealed against dirt or liquids
such as spray cleaner. Crimping the 45 Amp pins is difficult without
the expensive special tool, so I use the 30A pins and solder them
carefully at the front end, not allowing solder to wick all the way
through which would create a brittle weak spot. If deformed by
crimping they may not fully seat and then pull out of the housing when
disconnected. As with all connectors they should be checked with a
pull test. How hard to pull is something you learn on the job from the
foreman.

A decent lighter plug shouldn't overheat from 4A, or 10A. The trick is
fnding a good one. They do have the advantages of dust caps, no sharp
protrusions, and being easy to connect by feel with one hand.

-jsw

I think I've got it. Something called AMP-SUPERSEAL, which I gather is widely used in cars and consequently super-cheap online. You can even get all kinds of rubber housings for it if you want to get extreme, but the basic 2-pole unit looks like enough for me. I know that the ciggie plug thing can be made to work, but it's partly an aesthetic thing and partly size. We sometimes go tent camping on the Dutch coast in my little Alfa Romeo wagon, and we number five including the Au Pair. The glove box in that car is exactly what it says - just big enough for some gloves and a few maps! Get a bigger car? Sure, but my parking spot in central Cologne is just big enough for the car I have, and I'd rather drive an Alfa than almost anything else with four doors.

"robobass" wrote in message
...

I think I've got it. Something called AMP-SUPERSEAL, which I gather is
widely used in cars and consequently super-cheap online. You can even
get all kinds of rubber housings for it if you want to get extreme,
but the basic 2-pole unit looks like enough for me. I know that the
ciggie plug thing can be made to work, but it's partly an aesthetic
thing and partly size. We sometimes go tent camping on the Dutch coast
in my little Alfa Romeo wagon, and we number five including the Au
Pair. The glove box in that car is exactly what it says - just big
enough for some gloves and a few maps! Get a bigger car? Sure, but my
parking spot in central Cologne is just big enough for the car I have,
and I'd rather drive an Alfa than almost anything else with four
doors.

===============

That looks like a very good solution for you.

A vehicle battery can be either the source or the load (for a charger)
so I like genderless Andersons for connections I'd make with both
hands while parked, such as a battery charger or winch. Then the
charger's outlet mates with the portable cooler's inlet to precool it
at home and either can connect to the battery. A DC power meter which
reads current in only one direction can be plugged in between them
either way, to measure charge or discharge.

I added a lighter outlet with a cover instead of an Anderson to the
tractor to plug in the flasher because mowing fills everything with
dust, and I plug in the flasher with one hand while driving. I have to
be careful using the outlet to charge the battery because the male
lighter plug would be hot on two exposed terminals if connected to the
charger first.

-jsw

I have to
be careful using the outlet to charge the battery because the male
lighter plug would be hot on two exposed terminals if connected to the
charger first.

-jsw

Yeah, and I don't know what kind of lighter plugs you use, but capacity might also be an issue. Anyway, I maintain that ciggie plugs are just dumb. The only reason we have them is because the socket is already there, but it wasn't intended to supply juice to accessories, let alone accept it for charging.

"robobass" wrote in message
...
I have to
be careful using the outlet to charge the battery because the male
lighter plug would be hot on two exposed terminals if connected to
the
charger first.

-jsw

Yeah, and I don't know what kind of lighter plugs you use, but
capacity might also be an issue. Anyway, I maintain that ciggie plugs
are just dumb. The only reason we have them is because the socket is
already there, but it wasn't intended to supply juice to accessories,
let alone accept it for charging.

========

The lighter outlet on the dash of my car is fused too small to operate
a cigarette lighter anyway; it's -only- for accessories. There's also
one in the back for a portable cooler I use for summer grocery
shopping. The plug has never been hot when disconnected.

The other connector options require you to look at them to orient them
correctly, which you can't do while driving at night. I can plug the
flasher into the lighter outlet on my tractor with one gloved hand
while bouncing around and watching where I'm going. I couldn't with
any of the other choices of DC power connector such as the airplane
outlet I'm fiddling with blindly. It has two wrong positions that feel
like it might go in if pushed harder.

The two-pin trailer connector sees some use for 12V power. Be sure
that +12V is on the insulated pin.
http://www.amazon.com/Pico-0710PT-Tr.../dp/B00030COC4

-jsw

"robobass" wrote in message
...
I have to
be careful using the outlet to charge the battery because the male
lighter plug would be hot on two exposed terminals if connected to
the
charger first.

-jsw

Yeah, and I don't know what kind of lighter plugs you use, but
capacity might also be an issue. Anyway, I maintain that ciggie plugs
are just dumb. The only reason we have them is because the socket is
already there, but it wasn't intended to supply juice to accessories,
let alone accept it for charging.

======

If you want to use a high quality German connector try these:
http://www.binder-connector.de/

I've used (not by choice) them in electric cars. They are so tricky to
assemble that the company contracted to make the wiring harnesses gave
up and I had to do all of them myself. Viel Spass!

-jsw

On Thu, 9 Apr 2015 01:38:41 -0700 (PDT), robobass
wrote:

When the family makes a road trip I bring along a 12v 4 amp cooler. The ciggie plug melted long ago and I wired up one of those 3/16" cannon shaped connectors used for low voltage home stuff like laptops, external HDs etc. It also gets very hot and is starting to melt. What's a good off-the-shelf solution which doesn't take up much room? The whole ciggie plug thing is the dumbest convention ever, I must say. I can't believe it's still extant.
Small "anderson" type plugs.. Use one rated for at least twice your
anticipated current - IE - a 10 amp minimum to run the 4 amp cooler.

On 4/9/2015 4:38 AM, robobass wrote:
When the family makes a road trip I bring along a 12v 4 amp cooler.
The ciggie plug melted long ago and I wired up one of those 3/16"
cannon shaped connectors used for low voltage home stuff like
laptops, external HDs etc. It also gets very hot and is starting to
melt. What's a good off-the-shelf solution which doesn't take up much
room? The whole ciggie plug thing is the dumbest convention ever, I
must say. I can't believe it's still extant.



Forget connectors, use broadcast power!
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/te...p_tesla_24.htm

"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
...
On 4/9/2015 4:38 AM, robobass wrote:
When the family makes a road trip I bring along a 12v 4 amp cooler.
The ciggie plug melted long ago and I wired up one of those 3/16"
cannon shaped connectors used for low voltage home stuff like
laptops, external HDs etc. It also gets very hot and is starting to
melt. What's a good off-the-shelf solution which doesn't take up
much
room? The whole ciggie plug thing is the dumbest convention ever, I
must say. I can't believe it's still extant.



Forget connectors, use broadcast power!
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/te...p_tesla_24.htm

"There were no connections between the rotors and stators, no
sparking, lousy brushes."

Pay Queen Elsa to zap the cooler permanently cold.

On 4/9/2015 7:21 AM, robobass wrote:

I think I've got it. Something called AMP-SUPERSEAL, which I gather is widely used in cars and consequently super-cheap online. You can even get all kinds of rubber housings for it if you want to get extreme, but the basic 2-pole unit looks like enough for me. I know that the ciggie plug thing can be made to work, but it's partly an aesthetic thing and partly size. We sometimes go tent camping on the Dutch coast in my little Alfa Romeo wagon, and we number five including the Au Pair. The glove box in that car is exactly what it says - just big enough for some gloves and a few maps! Get a bigger car? Sure, but my parking spot in central Cologne is just big enough for the car I have, and I'd rather drive an Alfa than almost anything else with four doors.


Ist Cologne bei Köln?

:^)

David

"David R. Birch" wrote in message
...
On 4/9/2015 7:21 AM, robobass wrote:

I think I've got it. Something called AMP-SUPERSEAL, which I gather
is widely used in cars and consequently super-cheap online. You can
even get all kinds of rubber housings for it if you want to get
extreme, but the basic 2-pole unit looks like enough for me. I know
that the ciggie plug thing can be made to work, but it's partly an
aesthetic thing and partly size. We sometimes go tent camping on
the Dutch coast in my little Alfa Romeo wagon, and we number five
including the Au Pair. The glove box in that car is exactly what it
says - just big enough for some gloves and a few maps! Get a bigger
car? Sure, but my parking spot in central Cologne is just big
enough for the car I have, and I'd rather drive an Alfa than almost
anything else with four doors.


Ist Cologne bei Köln?

:^)

David

Köln is the short name, in full it was "Colonia Claudia Ara
Agrippinensium", which took up so much space on the maps that no one
was permitted to live east of it.

Our modern equivalent is
El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora la Reina de los Angeles del Río de
Porciúncula.

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
We used to use a 12V fridge on road trips when I was a kid. My dad
put a second battery in with a battery isolator, and some rather
large gage wire (fused) directly from the second battery to the
fridge. Never had an issue other than that the battery would run
down if we were parked for a day or more.

--
--
Bob La Londe

http://www.adventureparents.com/blog...ruck-or-camper
"Unquestionably, a good fridge/freezer is going to cost you close to
$1000,..."

On 4/9/2015 1:38 AM, robobass wrote:
When the family makes a road trip I bring along a 12v 4 amp cooler. The ciggie plug melted long ago and I wired up one of those 3/16" cannon shaped connectors used for low voltage home stuff like laptops, external HDs etc. It also gets very hot and is starting to melt. What's a good off-the-shelf solution which doesn't take up much room? The whole ciggie plug thing is the dumbest convention ever, I must say. I can't believe it's still extant.

I modified a similar 4 amp cooler to be both a cooler and a heater,
using and Ardiuno micro controller. The problem you found is caused by
the 4 amp fuse in the tip of the plug. It makes a very small contact on
each end and heats up. If you can find a lighter plug without the fuse,
get it. Then get a regular automotive fuse holder and put it in line
with your cooler.

The newer auto fuses are designed to carry the full rated current and
have very well designed sockets for the fuse blades.

Actually, there is really no reason for a fuse, anyway. The Peltier
device only fails by opening. The little fan would die rather than cause
a fire.

Paul

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
...
"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
We used to use a 12V fridge on road trips when I was a kid. My
dad put a second battery in with a battery isolator, and some
rather large gage wire (fused) directly from the second battery to
the fridge. Never had an issue other than that the battery would
run down if we were parked for a day or more.

--
--
Bob La Londe

http://www.adventureparents.com/blog...ruck-or-camper
"Unquestionably, a good fridge/freezer is going to cost you close
to $1000,..."


I don't think those high performance fridges existed back in the
1970s. We just had a 12V refrigerator. I'm not even sure the 12V
cool boxes (not really a fridge) existed back then either.

Starting to feel old here. On the way back from the river with a
buddy one day I took a detour down a canal bank to show him some
places he could fish without a boat. I pointed to one spot and told
him I caught my first bass there in 1974. Made me feel like a
dinosaur when he replied, "That's before I was born Bob."
Bob La Londe

Before I lucked onto the free-for-the-fixing APC1400 UPS I was looking
for a used 12V RV fridge for power outage backup. The dealers told me
they had nothing and I wouldn't find one for under $500.

On 2015-04-09, Steve W. wrote:
robobass wrote:
When the family makes a road trip I bring along a 12v 4 amp cooler.
The ciggie plug melted long ago and I wired up one of those 3/16"
cannon shaped connectors used for low voltage home stuff like
laptops, external HDs etc. It also gets very hot and is starting to
melt. What's a good off-the-shelf solution which doesn't take up much
room? The whole ciggie plug thing is the dumbest convention ever, I
must say. I can't believe it's still extant.

I agree with robobass, I cannot believe that this retardation is
allowed to flourish in the 21st century.

http://www.andersonpower.com/product...onnectors.html

"Ignoramus1742" wrote in message
...
On 2015-04-09, Steve W. wrote:
robobass wrote:
When the family makes a road trip I bring along a 12v 4 amp
cooler.
The ciggie plug melted long ago and I wired up one of those 3/16"
cannon shaped connectors used for low voltage home stuff like
laptops, external HDs etc. It also gets very hot and is starting
to
melt. What's a good off-the-shelf solution which doesn't take up
much
room? The whole ciggie plug thing is the dumbest convention ever,
I
must say. I can't believe it's still extant.

I agree with robobass, I cannot believe that this retardation is
allowed to flourish in the 21st century.

http://www.andersonpower.com/product...onnectors.html


There are many other connectors competing to become the standard for
low voltage DC, but none are as easy to insert blindly with one gloved
hand while driving.
http://radioactivemodels.ie/store/pr...oducts_id=1063
http://www.civicsolar.com/resource/t...s-and-couplers
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coaxial_power_connector
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DC_connector

-jsw

On Thu, 9 Apr 2015 21:33:41 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ignoramus1742" wrote in message
...
On 2015-04-09, Steve W. wrote:
robobass wrote:
When the family makes a road trip I bring along a 12v 4 amp
cooler.
The ciggie plug melted long ago and I wired up one of those 3/16"
cannon shaped connectors used for low voltage home stuff like
laptops, external HDs etc. It also gets very hot and is starting
to
melt. What's a good off-the-shelf solution which doesn't take up
much
room? The whole ciggie plug thing is the dumbest convention ever,
I
must say. I can't believe it's still extant.

I agree with robobass, I cannot believe that this retardation is
allowed to flourish in the 21st century.

http://www.andersonpower.com/product...onnectors.html


There are many other connectors competing to become the standard for
low voltage DC, but none are as easy to insert blindly with one gloved
hand while driving.
http://radioactivemodels.ie/store/pr...oducts_id=1063
http://www.civicsolar.com/resource/t...s-and-couplers
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coaxial_power_connector
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DC_connector

-jsw
The co-axial plug isn't a whole lot better than the cig lighter plug,
and in many ways is not as good. A non-fused cig lighter plug is good
for 30 amps. Most co-axials are good for 5 amps max. Rumour is there
is a 15 amp version - I haven't seen one yet.

If you want high current reliability there is only one name -
power-pole from Anderson.

On Thu, 9 Apr 2015 07:32:34 -0700 (PDT), robobass
wrote:

I have to
be careful using the outlet to charge the battery because the male
lighter plug would be hot on two exposed terminals if connected to the
charger first.

-jsw

Yeah, and I don't know what kind of lighter plugs you use, but capacity might also be an issue. Anyway, I maintain that ciggie plugs are just dumb.

+1. DUMB design.


The only reason we have them is because the socket is already there, but it wasn't intended to supply juice to accessories, let alone accept it for charging.

True. I've only felt one plug which "felt right" in all my time in
cars. It had 4 springs, made solid contact, and had an oversized
spring-loaded center contact. I think it was a Bosch, but it has been
decades. All the rest are trash.

Anyway, g'luck with the Amphenol.


A surprise came in the mail yesterday when my battery terminal ends
came in from Hong Kong. They were brass, as advertised, but they were
plated, not solid. And they were for 13mm battery posts. WTF? He
kindly refunded my money, so now I'm the proud owner of 4 golden mini
battery cable ends. So much for the buck apiece price, huh? sigh

I'm really surprised that an Alfalfa Romero even _has_ a ciggie
lighter. gd&r


--
It is common sense to take a method and try it. If it fails,
admit it frankly and try another. But above all, try something.
-- Franklin D. Roosevelt

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 9 Apr 2015 07:32:34 -0700 (PDT), robobass
wrote:

I have to
be careful using the outlet to charge the battery because the male
lighter plug would be hot on two exposed terminals if connected to
the
charger first.

-jsw

Yeah, and I don't know what kind of lighter plugs you use, but
capacity might also be an issue. Anyway, I maintain that ciggie
plugs are just dumb.

+1. DUMB design.


The only reason we have them is because the socket is already there,
but it wasn't intended to supply juice to accessories, let alone
accept it for charging.

True. I've only felt one plug which "felt right" in all my time in
cars. It had 4 springs, made solid contact, and had an oversized
spring-loaded center contact. I think it was a Bosch, but it has
been
decades. All the rest are trash.

Anyway, g'luck with the Amphenol.


A surprise came in the mail yesterday when my battery terminal ends
came in from Hong Kong. They were brass, as advertised, but they
were
plated, not solid. And they were for 13mm battery posts. WTF? He
kindly refunded my money, so now I'm the proud owner of 4 golden
mini
battery cable ends. So much for the buck apiece price, huh? sigh

I'm really surprised that an Alfalfa Romero even _has_ a ciggie
lighter. gd&r

After I wrote about Autozone's one-size-fits-none brass battery
terminal I noticed they had added a Pos and Neg pair to the display.

-jsw

On Thu, 9 Apr 2015 11:53:05 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"robobass" wrote in message
...
I have to
be careful using the outlet to charge the battery because the male
lighter plug would be hot on two exposed terminals if connected to
the
charger first.

-jsw

Yeah, and I don't know what kind of lighter plugs you use, but
capacity might also be an issue. Anyway, I maintain that ciggie plugs
are just dumb. The only reason we have them is because the socket is
already there, but it wasn't intended to supply juice to accessories,
let alone accept it for charging.

========

The lighter outlet on the dash of my car is fused too small to operate
a cigarette lighter anyway; it's -only- for accessories. There's also
one in the back for a portable cooler I use for summer grocery
shopping. The plug has never been hot when disconnected.

The other connector options require you to look at them to orient them
correctly, which you can't do while driving at night. I can plug the
flasher into the lighter outlet on my tractor with one gloved hand
while bouncing around and watching where I'm going. I couldn't with
any of the other choices of DC power connector such as the airplane
outlet I'm fiddling with blindly. It has two wrong positions that feel
like it might go in if pushed harder.

The two-pin trailer connector sees some use for 12V power. Be sure
that +12V is on the insulated pin.
http://www.amazon.com/Pico-0710PT-Tr.../dp/B00030COC4

My HF set (with that connector style) was wired backwards by _design_.
Flock op, so solly. Once I reversed the wiring on the lighter plug,
all was well with the world...and the set. sigh

Caution is advised, as they're limited to lower current draws.

--
It is common sense to take a method and try it. If it fails,
admit it frankly and try another. But above all, try something.
-- Franklin D. Roosevelt

On 2015-04-09, robobass wrote:

When the family makes a road trip I bring along a 12v 4 amp cooler.
The ciggie plug melted long ago and I wired up one of those 3/16" cannon
shaped connectors used for low voltage home stuff like laptops, external
HDs etc. It also gets very hot and is starting to melt. What's a good
off-the-shelf solution which doesn't take up much room? The whole ciggie
plug thing is the dumbest convention ever, I must say. I can't believe
it's still extant.

Look into Anderson PowerPole connectors.

You can find them -- and the crimpers needed for them -- on the
QuickSilver web page which mostly sells to ham radio operators.

http://qsradio.com/Powerpoles.htm

You can get terminals for these for 15, 30, and 45 Amps.

The shells come as individual wire shells, or as solvent-welded pairs
(Red & Black). The individual ones come with dovetails so they can be
slid together to make pairs, or larger counts of pins at need. Lots of
other individual colors available. And mounting blocks to make them
panel mount. (They are normally just wire mounted on both ends. :-)

They are both insulated at both ends and keyed so they will only
go together the right way.

Plan on having a really good grip to operate the crimper,
depending on which terminal you use. The barrel style crimps seem to
take more force than the folded flag style (which is the 45 Amp
terminal).

The WPL-7PK45 set has seven pairs of terminals with the 45-amp
crimp terminals and the solvent-welded Red/Black shells. ($13.00 for
the set).

The crimper set is $99.73 for all that you need, including a
number of individual shells (no welded pairs), or less for just the
crimper and dies, without the stripper and insertion/extraction tool
(and the fitted case. :-)

No relationship with the QuickSilver site, other than as a
satisfied customer. You can get the terminals/connectors at hamfests,
but I had to go on line to get the crimper -- it was beyond the
capability of any crimper in my collection. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Thu, 09 Apr 2015 12:59:30 -0400, Tom Gardner
wrote:

On 4/9/2015 4:38 AM, robobass wrote:
When the family makes a road trip I bring along a 12v 4 amp cooler.
The ciggie plug melted long ago and I wired up one of those 3/16"
cannon shaped connectors used for low voltage home stuff like
laptops, external HDs etc. It also gets very hot and is starting to
melt. What's a good off-the-shelf solution which doesn't take up much
room? The whole ciggie plug thing is the dumbest convention ever, I
must say. I can't believe it's still extant.

Forget connectors, use broadcast power!
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/te...p_tesla_24.htm

Interesting site, a must-read.

Tesla ROCKS! Here's a picture of his pocket model:
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/im...esla_tower.jpg

--
It is common sense to take a method and try it. If it fails,
admit it frankly and try another. But above all, try something.
-- Franklin D. Roosevelt

robobass wrote in
:

When the family makes a road trip I bring along a 12v 4 amp cooler.
The ciggie plug melted long ago and I wired up one of those 3/16"
cannon shaped connectors used for low voltage home stuff like laptops,
external HDs etc. It also gets very hot and is starting to melt.
What's a good off-the-shelf solution which doesn't take up much room?
The whole ciggie plug thing is the dumbest convention ever, I must
say. I can't believe it's still extant.

A good quality cigarette plug connector in a clean good quality socket
can handle 8 to 10 amps without problems. I have a 100W inverter that
has one and has never given any trouble. However, it needs to have a
body that's held together properly with several screws, preferably a four
sided negative spring contact and a positive contact made out of plated
machined brass, not pressed steel. If the socket has actually been used
for a cigarette lighter, its basically trashed by the heat and ash and
will never be reliable.

If you are modding the vehicle to provide a connection point, consider
fitting an ISO 4165 socket. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_4165 (also
frequently misnamed as a 12V 'DIN' plug)

--
Ian Malcolm. London, ENGLAND. (NEWSGROUP REPLY PREFERRED)
ianm[at]the[dash]malcolms[dot]freeserve[dot]co[dot]uk
[at]=@, [dash]=- & [dot]=. *Warning* HTML & 32K emails -- NUL

On 2015-04-09, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"robobass" wrote in message
...
I have to
be careful using the outlet to charge the battery because the male
lighter plug would be hot on two exposed terminals if connected to
the
charger first.

-jsw

Yeah, and I don't know what kind of lighter plugs you use, but
capacity might also be an issue. Anyway, I maintain that ciggie plugs
are just dumb. The only reason we have them is because the socket is
already there, but it wasn't intended to supply juice to accessories,
let alone accept it for charging.

Of course, the lighter plug was originally designed simply to
power a cigarette lighter for a number of seconds (something like 15 to
30, at a guess), and the connector was capable of handling that without
problems.

However, when you get to long-term draw -- that is beyond its
design capability.

And as for why it is on cars today -- even cars which come
*without* a cigarette lighter -- it is because it has been in cars for
long enough so people have found other uses for it -- whether it is well
designed for the purpose or not -- it gets *used* for those extra
purposes, and people complain if it is not present. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
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On 2015-04-10, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Ignoramus1742" wrote in message
...
On 2015-04-09, Steve W. wrote:
robobass wrote:
When the family makes a road trip I bring along a 12v 4 amp
cooler.
The ciggie plug melted long ago and I wired up one of those 3/16"
cannon shaped connectors used for low voltage home stuff like
laptops, external HDs etc. It also gets very hot and is starting
to
melt. What's a good off-the-shelf solution which doesn't take up
much
room? The whole ciggie plug thing is the dumbest convention ever,
I
must say. I can't believe it's still extant.

I agree with robobass, I cannot believe that this retardation is
allowed to flourish in the 21st century.

http://www.andersonpower.com/product...onnectors.html


There are many other connectors competing to become the standard for
low voltage DC, but none are as easy to insert blindly with one gloved
hand while driving.
http://radioactivemodels.ie/store/pr...oducts_id=1063
http://www.civicsolar.com/resource/t...s-and-couplers
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coaxial_power_connector
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DC_connector

I have hard times imagining that the humanity cannot invent something
better.

Even I can invent something better that can be inserted with a gloved
hand in the dark.

Hint, it can be a coaxial twist-lock connector.

i

And as for why it is on cars today -- even cars which come
*without* a cigarette lighter -- it is because it has been in cars for
long enough so people have found other uses for it -- whether it is well
designed for the purpose or not -- it gets *used* for those extra
purposes, and people complain if it is not present. :-)

Well sure, but the customer has no alternative. And a modern family will want to plug in many things. Navigator, portable DVD, phone charger... You start accumulating ciggie plug extensions and end up with wires and oversized connectors all over the place. I'm sure the industry is aware of the problem, but it's hard to revise a standard which has been there so long, not matter how bad it is. A revision would not only need cooperation between manufacturers of both cars and devices, but also woukd require rule changes by regulatory bodies in many countries. Fortunately, since I have a soldering iron, I don't need to wait another twenty years.

Are there really cars without cigarette lighters?

I have hard times imagining that the humanity cannot invent something
better.

Even I can invent something better that can be inserted with a gloved
hand in the dark.

Hint, it can be a coaxial twist-lock connector.

Are you talking about "SpeakOn" connectors? I thought of that, and actually have some lying around. They would be easy to use and very solid. A huge improvement I think. I'm gonna try "AmpSuperseal" though. I don't need to work dark with gloves on.

"robobass" wrote in message
...

And as for why it is on cars today -- even cars which come
*without* a cigarette lighter -- it is because it has been in cars
for
long enough so people have found other uses for it -- whether it is
well
designed for the purpose or not -- it gets *used* for those extra
purposes, and people complain if it is not present. :-)

Well sure, but the customer has no alternative. And a modern family
will want to plug in many things. Navigator, portable DVD, phone
charger... You start accumulating ciggie plug extensions and end up
with wires and oversized connectors all over the place. I'm sure the
industry is aware of the problem, but it's hard to revise a standard
which has been there so long, not matter how bad it is. A revision
would not only need cooperation between manufacturers of both cars and
devices, but also woukd require rule changes by regulatory bodies in
many countries. Fortunately, since I have a soldering iron, I don't
need to wait another twenty years.

Are there really cars without cigarette lighters?

This is an aftermarket cigarette lighter to replace the factory power
outlet:
http://www.hondapartssuperstore.com/...ine-p-304.html

This is an aftermarket cigarette lighter to replace the factory power
outlet:
http://www.hondapartssuperstore.com/...ine-p-304.html

Jim,
I maybe didn't make myself clear in my other posts, but I'm actually kind of against cigarette lighter plugs, and am seeking an alternative. The socket in my car is fine, btw.

robobass fired this volley in
:

I maybe didn't make myself clear in my other posts, but I'm actually
kind of against cigarette lighter plugs, and am seeking an
alternative. The socket in my car is fine, btw.

Well... I have to agree... I'm against MOST of the 'plugs', but the
sockets are reasonably well-suited to the purposes for which they were
intended.

Most of the plugs, on the other hand, are cheaply made. But there are
some 'professional duty' lighter plugs, with retractile side contacts (so
there never are two 'hots' exposed on an unplugged plug), fusing, and
robust-enough construction to hold up to thousands of manual pluggings
and unpluggings.

You won't find them on WalMart hardware, though. Seldom on anything but
EMS equipment, and/or military grade stuff.

Lloyd

On 4/9/2015 10:49 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 09 Apr 2015 12:59:30 -0400, Tom Gardner
wrote:

On 4/9/2015 4:38 AM, robobass wrote:
When the family makes a road trip I bring along a 12v 4 amp cooler.
The ciggie plug melted long ago and I wired up one of those 3/16"
cannon shaped connectors used for low voltage home stuff like
laptops, external HDs etc. It also gets very hot and is starting to
melt. What's a good off-the-shelf solution which doesn't take up much
room? The whole ciggie plug thing is the dumbest convention ever, I
must say. I can't believe it's still extant.

Forget connectors, use broadcast power!
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/te...p_tesla_24.htm

Interesting site, a must-read.

Tesla ROCKS! Here's a picture of his pocket model:
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/im...esla_tower.jpg

--
It is common sense to take a method and try it. If it fails,
admit it frankly and try another. But above all, try something.
-- Franklin D. Roosevelt



The old "if you could have lunch with anyone in history", Tesla would be
my pick...right after a few of my favorite authors.

Tom Gardner fired this volley in news:mg8f9f$eta$1
@speranza.aioe.org:

The old "if you could have lunch with anyone in history", Tesla would be
my pick...right after a few of my favorite authors.

Though I respect his intelligence and innovation, Tesla was best described
as "a nut".

I'd rather have a cigar and brandy with Samuel Clemens.

Lloyd

"Ignoramus1742" wrote in message
...
On 2015-04-10, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Ignoramus1742" wrote in
message
...
On 2015-04-09, Steve W. wrote:
robobass wrote:
When the family makes a road trip I bring along a 12v 4 amp
cooler.
The ciggie plug melted long ago and I wired up one of those
3/16"
cannon shaped connectors used for low voltage home stuff like
laptops, external HDs etc. It also gets very hot and is starting
to
melt. What's a good off-the-shelf solution which doesn't take up
much
room? The whole ciggie plug thing is the dumbest convention
ever,
I
must say. I can't believe it's still extant.

I agree with robobass, I cannot believe that this retardation is
allowed to flourish in the 21st century.

http://www.andersonpower.com/product...onnectors.html


There are many other connectors competing to become the standard
for
low voltage DC, but none are as easy to insert blindly with one
gloved
hand while driving.
http://radioactivemodels.ie/store/pr...oducts_id=1063
http://www.civicsolar.com/resource/t...s-and-couplers
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coaxial_power_connector
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DC_connector

I have hard times imagining that the humanity cannot invent
something
better.

Even I can invent something better that can be inserted with a
gloved
hand in the dark.

Hint, it can be a coaxial twist-lock connector.

i

If you make it able to deliver 20-30A for a transmitter, inverter,
fridge or faster air compressor, with screw terminals and strain
relief for 12 AWG wire and an internal fuse to protect thinner wire,
it won't be much smaller.

If you don't double or triple the present 120W power limit there's
insufficient reason to change.

I added Anderson cables that I can connect to the battery without
tools, via a wingnut on the Ford's starter solenoid and a spare
underhood fusebox lug on the car. The negative lead is permanently
connected since it isn't a fire hazard.

-jsw

On Fri, 10 Apr 2015 06:34:09 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:


"robobass" wrote in message
...

And as for why it is on cars today -- even cars which come
*without* a cigarette lighter -- it is because it has been in cars
for
long enough so people have found other uses for it -- whether it is
well
designed for the purpose or not -- it gets *used* for those extra
purposes, and people complain if it is not present. :-)

Well sure, but the customer has no alternative. And a modern family
will want to plug in many things. Navigator, portable DVD, phone
charger... You start accumulating ciggie plug extensions and end up
with wires and oversized connectors all over the place. I'm sure the
industry is aware of the problem, but it's hard to revise a standard
which has been there so long, not matter how bad it is. A revision
would not only need cooperation between manufacturers of both cars and
devices, but also woukd require rule changes by regulatory bodies in
many countries. Fortunately, since I have a soldering iron, I don't
need to wait another twenty years.

Are there really cars without cigarette lighters?

This is an aftermarket cigarette lighter to replace the factory power
outlet:
http://www.hondapartssuperstore.com/...ine-p-304.html


I have some of the oft mentioned powerpoles, including a flange mount
socket. They work ok and handle the current, but as another poster
said, aren't that easy to plug in.

About my favorite for RC batteries is the old Deans Ultra Plug. Tiny
and very high current for the size. But hard to plug or un-plug
because of the spring tension and difficulty in getting a grasp of the
tiny things. Also never seen a panel mount Deans.

You might look at marine stuff. Don't get the Marinco cigarette style
plug. Pain to wire and use.

http://www.downwindmarine.com/DC-Con...p-1-c-423.html

Pete Keillor

On 10 Apr 2015 02:48:00 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2015-04-09, robobass wrote:

When the family makes a road trip I bring along a 12v 4 amp cooler.
The ciggie plug melted long ago and I wired up one of those 3/16" cannon
shaped connectors used for low voltage home stuff like laptops, external
HDs etc. It also gets very hot and is starting to melt. What's a good
off-the-shelf solution which doesn't take up much room? The whole ciggie
plug thing is the dumbest convention ever, I must say. I can't believe
it's still extant.

Look into Anderson PowerPole connectors.

You can find them -- and the crimpers needed for them -- on the
QuickSilver web page which mostly sells to ham radio operators.

http://qsradio.com/Powerpoles.htm

You can get terminals for these for 15, 30, and 45 Amps.

The shells come as individual wire shells, or as solvent-welded pairs
(Red & Black). The individual ones come with dovetails so they can be
slid together to make pairs, or larger counts of pins at need. Lots of
other individual colors available. And mounting blocks to make them
panel mount. (They are normally just wire mounted on both ends. :-)

They are both insulated at both ends and keyed so they will only
go together the right way.



Plan on having a really good grip to operate the crimper,
depending on which terminal you use. The barrel style crimps seem to
take more force than the folded flag style (which is the 45 Amp
terminal).

The WPL-7PK45 set has seven pairs of terminals with the 45-amp
crimp terminals and the solvent-welded Red/Black shells. ($13.00 for
the set).

My buddy Glenn showed me that you could remove the soldering tip from
a Weller 150W gun and induction-heat the terminal to solder the wire
in. It worked extremely well for the 4ga armored wire he gave me to
use with the towing-receiver-mounted winch. http://tinyurl.com/nejufw9

I used the Anderson Powerpoles on the winch wiring, and I'm not all
that impressed. They're less reliable than I had hoped, and I've had
to reseat the things several times in the past, though they seem to
plug right together. It's usually not more than one extra 'fiddle'
per use, but that's once too many. I prefer plug-n-play hardware,
TYVM.

--
It is common sense to take a method and try it. If it fails,
admit it frankly and try another. But above all, try something.
-- Franklin D. Roosevelt

"robobass" wrote in message
...

This is an aftermarket cigarette lighter to replace the factory
power
outlet:
http://www.hondapartssuperstore.com/...ine-p-304.html

Jim,
I maybe didn't make myself clear in my other posts, but I'm actually
kind of against cigarette lighter plugs, and am seeking an
alternative. The socket in my car is fine, btw.

I don't like them either, but all the alternatives have their own
disadvantages on a dashboard. The other high-current vehicle panel
outlet and plug, for trailers, is even larger. Pigtail plugs like
OBDII are fine as long as the driver doesn't have to connect them.

My solar system uses 2-pin trailer connectors outdoors, banana jacks
at the wall plate, small Andersons in the charging wiring and large
ones to the UPS, and a lighter socket for the voltmeter or the laptop
DC supply. Each is a good choice for where it is.

-jsw

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 4.170...
robobass fired this volley in
:

I maybe didn't make myself clear in my other posts, but I'm
actually
kind of against cigarette lighter plugs, and am seeking an
alternative. The socket in my car is fine, btw.

Well... I have to agree... I'm against MOST of the 'plugs', but the
sockets are reasonably well-suited to the purposes for which they
were
intended.

Most of the plugs, on the other hand, are cheaply made. But there
are
some 'professional duty' lighter plugs, with retractile side
contacts (so
there never are two 'hots' exposed on an unplugged plug), fusing,
and
robust-enough construction to hold up to thousands of manual
pluggings
and unpluggings.

You won't find them on WalMart hardware, though. Seldom on anything
but
EMS equipment, and/or military grade stuff.

Lloyd

Some mid-sized inverters come with decent high-current lighter plugs
that can be adapted for general use with Andersons.

-jsw