I purchased a coupld of "Charmilles Eleroda 200" CNC EDM machines at
auction for an advantageous price.

Pictures of them are he

http://igor.chudov.com/misc/ebay/tmp/HyperAMS/

They depict two machines, lots of pictures from the auction to wade
through.

Each weighs perhaps 2,500 lbs total.

I am trying to decide if I should scrap and part them out right away,
or try to market them as usable. If I scrap them, I get my shop space
and my money back right away and have the circulation system, EDM
parts and boards on shelves. They have electromagnetic chucks and a
lot of other useful stuff.

On the other hand, they seem to be too good to scrap and maybe there
would be a buyer. So. My question is, are they hopelessly obsolete?

i

Additionally, a question: If I scrap them, I am sure that I will get
all boards and such and will try to sell them for replacement
parts. But, perhaps, inside EDM machines, there are some fun parts
that are specific to the EDM process, and are usable for other
projects or homemade EDM designs or whatnot?

For example, all welders have a current gauge with shunt and that is
always easily sellable. What about EDMs?

On 2013-11-09, Ignoramus26150 wrote:
I purchased a coupld of "Charmilles Eleroda 200" CNC EDM machines at
auction for an advantageous price.

Pictures of them are he

http://igor.chudov.com/misc/ebay/tmp/HyperAMS/

They depict two machines, lots of pictures from the auction to wade
through.

Each weighs perhaps 2,500 lbs total.

I am trying to decide if I should scrap and part them out right away,
or try to market them as usable. If I scrap them, I get my shop space
and my money back right away and have the circulation system, EDM
parts and boards on shelves. They have electromagnetic chucks and a
lot of other useful stuff.

On the other hand, they seem to be too good to scrap and maybe there
would be a buyer. So. My question is, are they hopelessly obsolete?

i

On Sat, 09 Nov 2013 08:03:23 -0600, Ignoramus26150
wrote:

I purchased a coupld of "Charmilles Eleroda 200" CNC EDM machines at
auction for an advantageous price.

Pictures of them are he

http://igor.chudov.com/misc/ebay/tmp/HyperAMS/

They depict two machines, lots of pictures from the auction to wade
through.

Each weighs perhaps 2,500 lbs total.

I am trying to decide if I should scrap and part them out right away,
or try to market them as usable. If I scrap them, I get my shop space
and my money back right away and have the circulation system, EDM
parts and boards on shelves. They have electromagnetic chucks and a
lot of other useful stuff.

On the other hand, they seem to be too good to scrap and maybe there
would be a buyer. So. My question is, are they hopelessly obsolete?

i
=================

Even if obsolete from a production perspective, if
operational, these may have instructional value. Check to
see if the technical schools in your area are interested,
and you may make out much better donating the machines and
receiving the tax deduction, if you are making enough to be
paying taxes.

Custom gunsmiths may also be interested for burning barrel
ports or the tee slots for a falling block action.

RogerN wrote:

"Ignoramus26150" wrote in message
...

I purchased a coupld of "Charmilles Eleroda 200" CNC EDM machines at
auction for an advantageous price.

Pictures of them are he

http://igor.chudov.com/misc/ebay/tmp/HyperAMS/

They depict two machines, lots of pictures from the auction to wade
through.

i

I'm guessing they would be out of my price range but I'd love to have one
for cutting the magazine hole out in my AR-15 lower blanks.

A die sinker EDM can be very useful, but it's a terrible choice for
something like a magwell, i.e. removal of some 4" thickness of a "soft"
material like aluminum. Wire EDM is what is sometimes used instead of
broaching.

"Ignoramus26150" wrote in message
...

I purchased a coupld of "Charmilles Eleroda 200" CNC EDM machines at
auction for an advantageous price.

Pictures of them are he

http://igor.chudov.com/misc/ebay/tmp/HyperAMS/

They depict two machines, lots of pictures from the auction to wade
through.

i

I'm guessing they would be out of my price range but I'd love to have one
for cutting the magazine hole out in my AR-15 lower blanks.

RogerN

On 2013-11-09, F George McDuffee wrote:

Even if obsolete from a production perspective, if
operational, these may have instructional value. Check to
see if the technical schools in your area are interested,
and you may make out much better donating the machines and
receiving the tax deduction, if you are making enough to be
paying taxes.

The way charitable donations should be reported, is as follows: the
donor should deduct the "fair market value" of the donated
property. If I purchased the property recently, at an auction, only
the purchase value is allowed to be deducted.

For example, I bought these EDMs for $200 plus 15% buyer premium
(each), so $230 would be how much I am allowed to deduct. This would
bring me tax savings of $80-90. Clearly not a good deal to buy a
machine for $230 for a $90 tax benefit, but this is how donations
should be reported.

Of course, this is not how "most people" do it. Typically people
"donate" garbage, like underwear with **** stains, useless clothes,
wrecked old cars etc, and deduct a lot more than those articles really
are worth. They also donate broken scrap machinery and report
exorbitant values, like you are alluding to.

That's a "donated item" tax scam.

Another "donation" scam is "donating" money to churches, which are
basically social clubs benefiting churchgoers. But that is allowed to
be deducted due to 1st Amendment and religious lobby.

This is the unique reason why we are "the most charitable nation in
the world", because of these tax scams people report a lot more value
donated than they actually give up.

I do not like to play this game and try pretty hard to avoid bull****
from appearing on my tax return.

I often get approached by charities who typically want to buy
warehouse items. They simply give me blank donation receipts saying
"just put whatever you want there". I do not use those because I do
not want to participate in this particular scam.

Custom gunsmiths may also be interested for burning barrel
ports or the tee slots for a falling block action.

Great idea. I am sorry if I appear cranky, I just feel strongly about
that donation stuff.

i

On 2013-11-09, RogerN wrote:
"Ignoramus26150" wrote in message
...

I purchased a coupld of "Charmilles Eleroda 200" CNC EDM machines at
auction for an advantageous price.

Pictures of them are he

http://igor.chudov.com/misc/ebay/tmp/HyperAMS/

They depict two machines, lots of pictures from the auction to wade
through.

i

I'm guessing they would be out of my price range but I'd love to have one
for cutting the magazine hole out in my AR-15 lower blanks.

Is $1,000 in your price range?

On 2013-11-09, Ignoramus26150 wrote:
On 2013-11-09, RogerN wrote:
"Ignoramus26150" wrote in message
...

I purchased a coupld of "Charmilles Eleroda 200" CNC EDM machines at
auction for an advantageous price.

Pictures of them are he

http://igor.chudov.com/misc/ebay/tmp/HyperAMS/

They depict two machines, lots of pictures from the auction to wade
through.

i

I'm guessing they would be out of my price range but I'd love to have one
for cutting the magazine hole out in my AR-15 lower blanks.

Is $1,000 in your price range?

I also have a Chinese "Creator CJ-100D" EDM. See pictures on the same
webpage starting with 4-xxxx.jpg. That is a wire EDM. Same price.

"Ignoramus26150" wrote in message
...

On 2013-11-09, Ignoramus26150 wrote:
On 2013-11-09, RogerN wrote:
snip

I'm guessing they would be out of my price range but I'd love to have
one
for cutting the magazine hole out in my AR-15 lower blanks.

Is $1,000 in your price range?

I also have a Chinese "Creator CJ-100D" EDM. See pictures on the same
webpage starting with 4-xxxx.jpg. That is a wire EDM. Same price.

The wire EDM would be what I'd need for the AR receivers. The price sounds
reasonable but currently I don't have a building to put it in. I'm not sure
how expensive they are to run, they seem to feed wire pretty fast. It would
be nice but now isn't a good time being I don't have a place to put it where
I could use it.

RogerN

On 2013-11-09, RogerN wrote:
"Ignoramus26150" wrote in message
...

On 2013-11-09, Ignoramus26150 wrote:
On 2013-11-09, RogerN wrote:
snip

I'm guessing they would be out of my price range but I'd love to have
one
for cutting the magazine hole out in my AR-15 lower blanks.

Is $1,000 in your price range?

I also have a Chinese "Creator CJ-100D" EDM. See pictures on the same
webpage starting with 4-xxxx.jpg. That is a wire EDM. Same price.

The wire EDM would be what I'd need for the AR receivers. The price sounds
reasonable but currently I don't have a building to put it in. I'm not sure
how expensive they are to run, they seem to feed wire pretty fast. It would
be nice but now isn't a good time being I don't have a place to put it where
I could use it.

I understand 100%

i

Ignoramus26150 wrote in
:

On 2013-11-09, F George McDuffee
wrote:

Even if obsolete from a production perspective, if
operational, these may have instructional value. Check to
see if the technical schools in your area are interested,
and you may make out much better donating the machines and
receiving the tax deduction, if you are making enough to be
paying taxes.

The way charitable donations should be reported, is as follows: the
donor should deduct the "fair market value" of the donated
property. If I purchased the property recently, at an auction, only
the purchase value is allowed to be deducted.

For example, I bought these EDMs for $200 plus 15% buyer premium
(each), so $230 would be how much I am allowed to deduct. This would
bring me tax savings of $80-90. Clearly not a good deal to buy a
machine for $230 for a $90 tax benefit, but this is how donations
should be reported.


OTOH, if you sell one sucessfully, you've just established the fair
market value and can donate the other at that value deduction. If you
don't want them hanging around, that may well be easier than finding a
second buyer.

--
Ian Malcolm. London, ENGLAND. (NEWSGROUP REPLY PREFERRED)
ianm[at]the[dash]malcolms[dot]freeserve[dot]co[dot]uk
[at]=@, [dash]=- & [dot]=. *Warning* HTML & 32K emails -- NUL

On 11/9/2013 3:11 PM, F. George McDuffee wrote:
....

Even if obsolete from a production perspective, if
operational, these may have instructional value. Check to
see if the technical schools in your area are interested,
and you may make out much better donating the machines and
receiving the tax deduction, if you are making enough to be
paying taxes.
....

Unfortunately, for Iggy's business these would I think fall under the
special rules for "inventory" rather than as capital equipment or other
business property which effectively negates them being able to be deducted.

From the IRS Pub --

" Inventory
If you contribute inventory (property you sell in the course of your
business), the amount you can deduct is the smaller of its fair market
value on the day you contributed it or its basis. The basis of
contributed inventory is any cost incurred for the inventory in an
earlier year that you would otherwise include in your opening inventory
for the year of the contribution. You must remove the amount of your
charitable contribution deduction from your opening inventory. It is not
part of the cost of goods sold."
...

As a board member of a qualified foundation associated w/ such a tech
school/comm. college, we do get donations of such equipment that is
indeed very useful. But, we also get offers simply looking to unload
junkor, less often, useful stuff but that just doesn't fit any current
or foreseeable need that we have to refuse.

It's certainly _possible_ a local trade school might find a use but in
general for this kind of stuff we've found the manufacturers are pretty
good in filling in if asked with suitable-for-training gear.

But, while as Iggy goes on to say he's not interested in trying to run a
tax scam and his business model doesn't make it terribly likely he'll
ever get advantageous tax position vis a vis a sale, there's still the
charitable side of it that if were feeling munificent and a local outfit
had a need...

--

On Sat, 09 Nov 2013 08:03:23 -0600, Ignoramus26150
wrote:

I purchased a coupld of "Charmilles Eleroda 200" CNC EDM machines at
auction for an advantageous price.

Pictures of them are he

http://igor.chudov.com/misc/ebay/tmp/HyperAMS/

They depict two machines, lots of pictures from the auction to wade
through.

Each weighs perhaps 2,500 lbs total.

I am trying to decide if I should scrap and part them out right away,
or try to market them as usable. If I scrap them, I get my shop space
and my money back right away and have the circulation system, EDM
parts and boards on shelves. They have electromagnetic chucks and a
lot of other useful stuff.

On the other hand, they seem to be too good to scrap and maybe there
would be a buyer. So. My question is, are they hopelessly obsolete?

i

Hopelessly obsolete? Not at all.

Is there much of a market out there for them? Id have to say yes.

Industry is in great distress across much of America...and companies
cannot buy new machines, but they can buy good used machines...of
which there is a glut.

So you should be able to sell them easily.

Gunner

--
Liberals want everyone to think like them.
Conservatives want everyone to think.

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

On 2013-11-10, dpb wrote:
On 11/9/2013 3:11 PM, F. George McDuffee wrote:
...

Even if obsolete from a production perspective, if
operational, these may have instructional value. Check to
see if the technical schools in your area are interested,
and you may make out much better donating the machines and
receiving the tax deduction, if you are making enough to be
paying taxes.
...

Unfortunately, for Iggy's business these would I think fall under
the special rules for "inventory" rather than as capital equipment
or other business property which effectively negates them being able
to be deducted.

It can be deducted, but only up to purchase cost.

The scam that a lot of people run, is that they donate junk and
declare that they donated valuable things.

I think that such a donation will look really stupid on my tax return,
and any auditor with half a brain will right away figure out that my
intent was to scam the government, not to give up real value to
benefit charity.

I am disgusted with that stuff and do not do that. I make small
donations of money, which is a lot less questionable.

i

On 2013-11-10, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 09 Nov 2013 08:03:23 -0600, Ignoramus26150
wrote:

I purchased a coupld of "Charmilles Eleroda 200" CNC EDM machines at
auction for an advantageous price.

Pictures of them are he

http://igor.chudov.com/misc/ebay/tmp/HyperAMS/

They depict two machines, lots of pictures from the auction to wade
through.

Each weighs perhaps 2,500 lbs total.

I am trying to decide if I should scrap and part them out right away,
or try to market them as usable. If I scrap them, I get my shop space
and my money back right away and have the circulation system, EDM
parts and boards on shelves. They have electromagnetic chucks and a
lot of other useful stuff.

On the other hand, they seem to be too good to scrap and maybe there
would be a buyer. So. My question is, are they hopelessly obsolete?

i

Hopelessly obsolete? Not at all.

Is there much of a market out there for them? Id have to say yes.

Industry is in great distress across much of America...and companies
cannot buy new machines, but they can buy good used machines...of
which there is a glut.

So you should be able to sell them easily.

OK, thanks a lot.

i

On 11/10/2013 1:27 PM, Ignoramus2407 wrote:
....

It can be deducted, but only up to purchase cost.

Which is what I posted the supporting IRS rules for.

By "effectively negates" I intended (and thought the intent would be
clear) that it's the _value_to_you_as_a_deduction_ that is negated by
the fact that the deductible portion is only the basis you have in it so
that there's no point in it from a tax standpoint.

The scam that a lot of people run, is that they donate junk and
declare that they donated valuable things.
....

Yes, many do, unfortunately.

--

On 11/10/2013 1:10 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
....

Industry is in great distress across much of America...and companies
cannot buy new machines, but they can buy good used machines...of
which there is a glut.

So you should be able to sell them easily.
....

Hmmmm....there's a glut of supply and the potential purchasers are in a
world of hurt so should sell easily...

Somehow I don't think that's the intended meaning???

--

On Sun, 10 Nov 2013 13:27:35 -0600, Ignoramus2407
wrote:

On 2013-11-10, dpb wrote:
On 11/9/2013 3:11 PM, F. George McDuffee wrote:
...

Even if obsolete from a production perspective, if
operational, these may have instructional value. Check to
see if the technical schools in your area are interested,
and you may make out much better donating the machines and
receiving the tax deduction, if you are making enough to be
paying taxes.
...

Unfortunately, for Iggy's business these would I think fall under
the special rules for "inventory" rather than as capital equipment
or other business property which effectively negates them being able
to be deducted.

It can be deducted, but only up to purchase cost.

The scam that a lot of people run, is that they donate junk and
declare that they donated valuable things.

I think that such a donation will look really stupid on my tax return,
and any auditor with half a brain will right away figure out that my
intent was to scam the government, not to give up real value to
benefit charity.

I am disgusted with that stuff and do not do that. I make small
donations of money, which is a lot less questionable.

Good man. I've been turning down receipts from Goodwill for decades.
Real donations are made from the heart, and not with the expectation
of a tax deduction. A "Christian missionary" neighbor grabs up every
tax break he can for his donations. sigh

--
Another belief of mine: that everyone else my age is an adult,
whereas I am merely in disguise.
-- Margaret Atwood

On 2013-11-10, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 10 Nov 2013 13:27:35 -0600, Ignoramus2407
wrote:

On 2013-11-10, dpb wrote:
On 11/9/2013 3:11 PM, F. George McDuffee wrote:
...

Even if obsolete from a production perspective, if
operational, these may have instructional value. Check to
see if the technical schools in your area are interested,
and you may make out much better donating the machines and
receiving the tax deduction, if you are making enough to be
paying taxes.
...

Unfortunately, for Iggy's business these would I think fall under
the special rules for "inventory" rather than as capital equipment
or other business property which effectively negates them being able
to be deducted.

It can be deducted, but only up to purchase cost.

The scam that a lot of people run, is that they donate junk and
declare that they donated valuable things.

I think that such a donation will look really stupid on my tax return,
and any auditor with half a brain will right away figure out that my
intent was to scam the government, not to give up real value to
benefit charity.

I am disgusted with that stuff and do not do that. I make small
donations of money, which is a lot less questionable.

Good man. I've been turning down receipts from Goodwill for decades.
Real donations are made from the heart, and not with the expectation
of a tax deduction. A "Christian missionary" neighbor grabs up every
tax break he can for his donations. sigh


I am all for using all available tax breaks. But I do not want to be
tax cheating by means of making phony donations. Especially I do not
want to do it on a corporate level, a S corporation making tax
donations in kind, looks funny.

i

On 11/9/2013 09:03, Ignoramus26150 wrote:
I purchased a coupld of "Charmilles Eleroda 200" CNC EDM machines at
auction for an advantageous price.

Pictures of them are he

http://igor.chudov.com/misc/ebay/tmp/HyperAMS/

They depict two machines, lots of pictures from the auction to wade
through.

Each weighs perhaps 2,500 lbs total.

I am trying to decide if I should scrap and part them out right away,
or try to market them as usable. If I scrap them, I get my shop space
and my money back right away and have the circulation system, EDM
parts and boards on shelves. They have electromagnetic chucks and a
lot of other useful stuff.

On the other hand, they seem to be too good to scrap and maybe there
would be a buyer. So. My question is, are they hopelessly obsolete?

i


Dang. Love to have one at work. I hate getting broken taps out by
tornado milling them. Do you know if they work? Might be able to get
owner to buy the blue one. We're in Grand Haven, Mich. We'd pick up, or
send a truck, if I could talk them into it.


--
Steve Walker
(remove brain when replying)

On 2013-11-11, Steve Walker wrote:
On 11/9/2013 09:03, Ignoramus26150 wrote:
I purchased a coupld of "Charmilles Eleroda 200" CNC EDM machines at
auction for an advantageous price.

Pictures of them are he

http://igor.chudov.com/misc/ebay/tmp/HyperAMS/

They depict two machines, lots of pictures from the auction to wade
through.

Each weighs perhaps 2,500 lbs total.

I am trying to decide if I should scrap and part them out right away,
or try to market them as usable. If I scrap them, I get my shop space
and my money back right away and have the circulation system, EDM
parts and boards on shelves. They have electromagnetic chucks and a
lot of other useful stuff.

On the other hand, they seem to be too good to scrap and maybe there
would be a buyer. So. My question is, are they hopelessly obsolete?

Dang. Love to have one at work. I hate getting broken taps out by
tornado milling them. Do you know if they work? Might be able to get
owner to buy the blue one. We're in Grand Haven, Mich. We'd pick up, or
send a truck, if I could talk them into it.


They told me that they all worked. There was another machine at that
auction that had a problem. I did not end up buying that one. I can
hook them up to 240 or 480 if you send your repairman to test prior to
purchase.

i

On 11/10/2013 5:19 PM, Ignoramus2407 wrote:
....

... a S corporation making tax
donations in kind, looks funny.

Not necessarily, no. The donations of the large compressors and so on
we get at the tech school from the pipeline companies for the gas
compressor tech program are certainly from S-corps. They are, of
course, capital equipment from them, not inventory as in your case of
the subject equipment here but certainly there's nothing unusual in the
fact it's a S-corp making a donation to a qualified institution and
receiving the tax benefit therefrom.

--

On 11/10/2013 3:28 PM, dpb wrote:
On 11/10/2013 1:27 PM, Ignoramus2407 wrote:
....

The scam that a lot of people run, is that they donate junk and
declare that they donated valuable things.
...

Yes, many do, unfortunately.

PS. _Some_ even get caught!

--

"Ignoramus2407" wrote in message ...
On 2013-11-10, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 09 Nov 2013 08:03:23 -0600, Ignoramus26150
wrote:

I purchased a coupld of "Charmilles Eleroda 200" CNC EDM machines at
auction for an advantageous price.

Pictures of them are he

http://igor.chudov.com/misc/ebay/tmp/HyperAMS/

They depict two machines, lots of pictures from the auction to wade
through.

Each weighs perhaps 2,500 lbs total.

I am trying to decide if I should scrap and part them out right away,
or try to market them as usable. If I scrap them, I get my shop space
and my money back right away and have the circulation system, EDM
parts and boards on shelves. They have electromagnetic chucks and a
lot of other useful stuff.

On the other hand, they seem to be too good to scrap and maybe there
would be a buyer. So. My question is, are they hopelessly obsolete?

i

Hopelessly obsolete? Not at all.

Is there much of a market out there for them? Id have to say yes.

Industry is in great distress across much of America...and companies
cannot buy new machines,

Hogwash.

http://www.industryweek.com/site-fil...10aprusmto.jpg

but they can buy good used machines...of
which there is a glut.

So you should be able to sell them easily.

OK, thanks a lot.


There's a sucker born every minute...

--otherwise, it would have cost the previous owner to have them hauled away.

"PrecisionmachinisT" fired this volley in
:

but they can buy good used machines...of
which there is a glut.

So you should be able to sell them easily.

OK, thanks a lot.


There's a sucker born every minute...

Well, there's still a good use to be had in a small shop for a CHEAP
sinker machine for burning out broken taps or 'drilling' hardened or
carbide tool stock; Rockwell drills won't do it all.

It's only a 'sucker deal' if it's too expensive, or doesn't do what you
want after you buy it. Caveat emptor.

Lloyd

On 11/11/2013 1:12 AM, dpb wrote:
On 11/10/2013 5:19 PM, Ignoramus2407 wrote:
...

... a S corporation making tax
donations in kind, looks funny.

Not necessarily, no. The donations of the large compressors and so on we
get at the tech school from the pipeline companies for the gas
compressor tech program are certainly from S-corps. They are, of course,
capital equipment from them, not inventory as in your case of the
subject equipment here but certainly there's nothing unusual in the fact
it's a S-corp making a donation to a qualified institution and receiving
the tax benefit therefrom.
....

One last comment...the tax rules are as they are for charitable
contributions (both personal and corporate) for a reason -- it's
deliberate public policy and seen as beneficial incentive to support such.

So, if it's appropriate for the situation, use it w/o qualms. This
doesn't mean abuse it, of course, but there's no reason to shy away from
doing so for fear of audit or somesuch just because it's the business
for a legitimate case.

If, for example, the subject machine were one that you had had for a
period of time as a piece of gear you used in the business to process
other materials for resale or made product with for resale and
subsequently became either redundant or otherwise immaterial to the
business it would be perfectly legitimate to make such a donation and
take the market value less basis whatever that basis value was, however
it was shown fairly on the books.

--

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message . 3.70...
"PrecisionmachinisT" fired this volley in
:

but they can buy good used machines...of
which there is a glut.

So you should be able to sell them easily.

OK, thanks a lot.


There's a sucker born every minute...

Well, there's still a good use to be had in a small shop for a CHEAP

"small shops' generally don't have room for things that large, especially if it's only going to be needed once in a blue moon.

sinker machine for burning out broken taps


Well dammit stop breaking taps, Lloyd !!!

or 'drilling' hardened or carbide tool stock; Rockwell drills won't do it all.

Never had the need....but if I do, I'll send it out to someone who already has the capability..

It's only a 'sucker deal' if it's too expensive, or doesn't do what you
want after you buy it. Caveat emptor.
Lloyd

"PrecisionmachinisT" fired this volley in
news:m8OdnWV8w_AvyR_PnZ2dnUVZ_oudnZ2d@scnresearch. com:

Well dammit stop breaking taps, Lloyd !!!

_I_ haven't broken a tap I couldn't get out with a regular extractor in a
year or two... but there are 'other hands' here who aren't as concerned
with wrecking parts as I am (because it doesn't cost _them_ anything).

Actually, they're not bad, either, but it happens.

Besides, I meant a SMALL sinker setup, not a big monster like those.
There are some with no automatic X/Y feeds that would fit in the space of
a table-top mill-drill.

LLoyd

On Tue, 12 Nov 2013 10:50:52 -0600, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

snip
Besides, I meant a SMALL sinker setup, not a big monster like those.
There are some with no automatic X/Y feeds that would fit in the space of
a table-top mill-drill.
snip

FYI
http://www.youroldtimebookstore.com/product-p/1584.htm

On Tue, 12 Nov 2013 10:50:52 -0600, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

"PrecisionmachinisT" fired this volley in
news:m8OdnWV8w_AvyR_PnZ2dnUVZ_oudnZ2d@scnresearch .com:

Well dammit stop breaking taps, Lloyd !!!

_I_ haven't broken a tap I couldn't get out with a regular extractor in a
year or two... but there are 'other hands' here who aren't as concerned
with wrecking parts as I am (because it doesn't cost _them_ anything).

Actually, they're not bad, either, but it happens.

Besides, I meant a SMALL sinker setup, not a big monster like those.
There are some with no automatic X/Y feeds that would fit in the space of
a table-top mill-drill.

LLoyd

simple "Tap Busters" or "tap burners" can be had fairly regularly at
auctions and ebay for little money.

Gunner

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Gunner Asch fired this volley in
:

simple "Tap Busters" or "tap burners" can be had fairly regularly at
auctions and ebay for little money.

Exactly, and although F.George's suggestion would be good for someone who
had time to build and fiddle, my time is worth a lot more than a surplus
small machine would cost.

Heck... I cobbled up a crude EDM in the early 1970s that used a 250W
incandescent lamp as a ballast. It worked shrug.

But still... the features you can get for a few hundred bucks on an old
commercial tabletop machine would be fine for just teasing out the odd
tap or drill bit chips.

Lloyd

Gunner Asch fired this volley in
:

tap burners

There's one on Ebay right now, ostensibly in working condition (says he
tested it), with lotsa tools for $1750. Figure $400 to get it here.

A day's wage.

Lloyd

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message . 3.70...
Gunner Asch fired this volley in
:

tap burners

There's one on Ebay right now, ostensibly in working condition (says he
tested it), with lotsa tools for $1750. Figure $400 to get it here.

A day's wage.


I can have one burned out for about 35 bucks.

On 2013-11-12, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Gunner Asch fired this volley in
:

simple "Tap Busters" or "tap burners" can be had fairly regularly at
auctions and ebay for little money.

Exactly, and although F.George's suggestion would be good for someone who
had time to build and fiddle, my time is worth a lot more than a surplus
small machine would cost.

Heck... I cobbled up a crude EDM in the early 1970s that used a 250W
incandescent lamp as a ballast. It worked shrug.

But still... the features you can get for a few hundred bucks on an old
commercial tabletop machine would be fine for just teasing out the odd
tap or drill bit chips.

Lloyd

Lloyd, what is the subsystem in the EDM that generates those pulses?
Can it be sold to some hobbyists or for an alternative purpose?

i

"PrecisionmachinisT" fired this volley in
news:V9CdncgzTo6lHB_PnZ2dnUVZ_uKdnZ2d@scnresearch. com:

I can have one burned out for about 35 bucks.

And a day out, and a day in. What if you need it _right_now_! (like in
only the time it takes to burn out?)

You may be privileged to work in an industrial complex with many
specialties. I'd have to send or take the part 46 miles to Orlando to get
it done, and most shops down there don't give "while you wait" service.

Lloyd

Ignoramus11549 fired this volley in
:

Lloyd, what is the subsystem in the EDM that generates those pulses?
Can it be sold to some hobbyists or for an alternative purpose?

I've never seen the schematic for a modern one. Back in the 70s, the
simple ones used variable-frequency (variable speed) AC mechanical motor-
generators, and half-wave rectified it to get the pulses. I _seriously_
doubt if that clunky method is used now, with inverter technology at hand.

Maybe Gunner could answer.

LLoyd

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message . 3.70...
"PrecisionmachinisT" fired this volley in
news:V9CdncgzTo6lHB_PnZ2dnUVZ_uKdnZ2d@scnresearch. com:

I can have one burned out for about 35 bucks.

And a day out, and a day in.


I make regular trips anyways....

What if you need it _right_now_! (like in
only the time it takes to burn out?)

DONT break off a tap in it!!!

You may be privileged to work in an industrial complex with many

Not even close.

specialties. I'd have to send or take the part 46 miles to Orlando to get
it done, and most shops down there don't give "while you wait" service.

22 miles round trip...the machine is almost always idle.

"PrecisionmachinisT" fired this volley in
:

22 miles round trip...the machine is almost always idle.

So... it fits your business model. I break one so seldom I really don't
need one, but if I did, it would be a better fit to have a cheap one in-
shop.

Besides... it can also be used to drill through devilishly hard materials,
and if it has orbital cycles (a lot of small ones can orbit, usually
mechanically), it can also tap those substances.

So borked taps and drills aren't its only service.

Lloyd

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message . 3.70...
"PrecisionmachinisT" fired this volley in
:

22 miles round trip...the machine is almost always idle.

So... it fits your business model. I break one so seldom I really don't
need one, but if I did, it would be a better fit to have a cheap one in-
shop.

Yup, like you, I've somehow gotten by fine without one for many years now....

--but if a small unit, that maybe mounted onto an existing drill press presented itself for cheap then I just might.

Besides... it can also be used to drill through devilishly hard materials,

HAZ and/or a truly **** poor surface finish oftentimes precludes such use.

and if it has orbital cycles (a lot of small ones can orbit, usually
mechanically), it can also tap those substances.

Curious what in the world I would ever want to do THAT for?

So borked taps and drills aren't its only service.

Lloyd

"PrecisionmachinisT" fired this volley in
news:abudnbJH3sfqDh_PnZ2dnUVZ_qudnZ2d@scnresearch. com:

and if it has orbital cycles (a lot of small ones can orbit, usually
mechanically), it can also tap those substances.

Curious what in the world I would ever want to do THAT for?

HEH! I can't really see the need for that, either.

I _can_ see the WANT for the ability to drill carbide or high-chrome tool
bits occasionally, but Rockwells will work on the tool steel, and I can
farm out the carbide, as seldom as I'd ever need to pierce a piece of it.

The only regular use I'd have for that is for wear-resistant cord guides,
and there _are_ a wide selection of ceramic and carbide guide grommets
available out there, if I need them. I'm betting buying them would be
cheaper than cutting them myself.


Lloyd